As I said in the other thread this could very well be a negotiating ploy on Boras's part. If Maddux is done, congratulations on a great career. Until I hear it out of Maddux I won't believe he is done.
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LA DODGERS 2009 THREAD (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter B Maverick
- Start date
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
Dodgers decline Penny's option
It's hard to say if I agree with this or not without knowing the health of his arm. Based on this season, I can't fault the Dodgers for doing this. But I could see him being a bargain for some other team in 2009 if his arm is okay.
It's hard to say if I agree with this or not without knowing the health of his arm. Based on this season, I can't fault the Dodgers for doing this. But I could see him being a bargain for some other team in 2009 if his arm is okay.
B Maverick
Footballguy
What would he hope to accomplish by stating he is going to retire? Maddux is a 5 inning .500 pitcher these days. he was relegated to the pen for the playoffs. I think his time is up. One of the greatest pitchers of my generation. Congrats on all he has done. He is going out with another gold glove award. He will make a great pitching coach for a team.
Penny and Sheets are great pitchers when not hurt. They are just to hurt to pay that kind of cash too. More durable then Prior though!!!If he proves to be healthy, Penny will get some good money. If he comes cheap LA may want him back.
NorrisB
Footballguy
As a dodger fan I agree with 100%
I'm good with that deal, especially given the third year is a team option. I read that Manny made the Dodgers 10-15 mil this year in the small time he was with the team. If he makes the team an extra 10 mil a year on a full season, they are only really spending 15 mil on him. His hitting is worth that. I like keeping the years low and think this would be the perfect agreement from the Dodgers' perspective. I don't think Manny will take it. I think he might compromise to a three-year contract without the team option.3 yrs / $72M (including the team option third year) for Manny
B Maverick
Footballguy
Euphus, where did you see that? on the dodger site it talks about an initial offer of two years at $55 million I am good with both offers. But I dont think Manny will take it. Or should I say Boras wont take it. He is talking 6 years, a contract that pays him until he is 42 like Bonds and ARod got...articleI'm good with that deal, especially given the third year is a team option. I read that Manny made the Dodgers 10-15 mil this year in the small time he was with the team. If he makes the team an extra 10 mil a year on a full season, they are only really spending 15 mil on him. His hitting is worth that. I like keeping the years low and think this would be the perfect agreement from the Dodgers' perspective. I don't think Manny will take it. I think he might compromise to a three-year contract without the team option.3 yrs / $72M (including the team option third year) for Manny
ANA POINT, Calif. -- The Dodgers have made their initial offer to free-agent left fielder Manny Ramirez, Ned Colletti, their general manager, said on Wednesday afternoon as the second day of this year's annual General Managers Meetings came to a close. The offer -- believed to be in the neighborhood of two years at $55 million -- was extended to Ramirez's agent, Scott Boras, on Tuesday night as the two sides met for the only time during the meetings, which end on Thursday.
Eephus
Footballguy
I guess the $72M was somebody extrapolating the $55M/2 over a third year. To clarify:Euphus, where did you see that? on the dodger site it talks about an initial offer of two years at $55 million I am good with both offers. But I dont think Manny will take it. Or should I say Boras wont take it. He is talking 6 years, a contract that pays him until he is 42 like Bonds and ARod got...I'm good with that deal, especially given the third year is a team option. I read that Manny made the Dodgers 10-15 mil this year in the small time he was with the team. If he makes the team an extra 10 mil a year on a full season, they are only really spending 15 mil on him. His hitting is worth that. I like keeping the years low and think this would be the perfect agreement from the Dodgers' perspective. I don't think Manny will take it. I think he might compromise to a three-year contract without the team option.3 yrs / $72M (including the team option third year) for Manny
article:
DANA POINT, Calif. -- The Dodgers have made their initial offer to free-agent left fielder Manny Ramirez, Ned Colletti, their general manager, said on Wednesday afternoon as the second day of this year's annual General Managers Meetings came to a close.
The offer -- believed to be in the neighborhood of two years at $55 million -- was extended to Ramirez's agent, Scott Boras, on Tuesday night as the two sides met for the only time during the meetings, which end on Thursday.
I suspect there's more than a little speculating going on here. But it's pretty obvious the Dodgers are serious about keeping Manny and that he's going to get paid.
Boras is telling prospective teams you better make it worth his while to play next year otherwise he wont be around. If Maddux is retiring he will make a statement. When his agent is making statements it is because he is setting the stage. Especially when that agent is Scott Boras.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Thats my point, there really is no stage for Maddux. No team is going to break the bank to get him. I realize Boras is delusional but it doesnt make sense. The FA market for pitchers is pretty good, Maddux is a 5th/ spot starter these days.
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
B Maverick
Footballguy
sadly looks like furcal may be heading to Oakland and Beimel may be signing elsewhere too. I really havent heard what the market for Manny is so i am hoping he is coming back to LA.
such a lack of reports and rumors out of la i am getting worried.
such a lack of reports and rumors out of la i am getting worried.
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
Billingsley breaks leg bone
Not good news, though if the recovery goes as predicted, it shouldn't affect his preparations for the '09 season.
Not good news, though if the recovery goes as predicted, it shouldn't affect his preparations for the '09 season.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Torre killed the Pettite to LA rumors saying its not going to happen.
Furcal rejected Oakland's offer, maybe a return to LA for a decent price?
Hoffman to LA has surfaced. Provide leadership and veteran pressence with Maddox retiring?
Casey Blake seems to be on the want list and might return to LA. 2 year deal? That would be solid. He played a great third, leaves DeWitt at 2nd. Casey is a good 6th or 7th hitter.
Furcal rejected Oakland's offer, maybe a return to LA for a decent price?
Hoffman to LA has surfaced. Provide leadership and veteran pressence with Maddox retiring?
Casey Blake seems to be on the want list and might return to LA. 2 year deal? That would be solid. He played a great third, leaves DeWitt at 2nd. Casey is a good 6th or 7th hitter.
Qtip Callahan
Footballguy
Wonder why the Dodgers aren't making more of a run at Furcal? I'm glad the A's offered 4 yrs 35M, wonder if LA could bring him in for 3/35 or 4/40. That seems worth it to me. He's had some injuries, but I think there is a good chance his next three years will be better health-wise than his previous three. Not too excited about Hoffman. His changeup is still money, but his fastball has really slowed down. He was very hittable last year, and Petco is as pitcher friendly as it gets.Casey Blake for 2 years seems smart. I think last year was a very good year for him, but he's solid and has a little pop. The Dodgers need Manny. I hate to say it, but without that big bat in the middle of their lineup, they're just not near as good on offense. And no one should know that better than the Dodgers, who have went years without much power. It's a tricky negotiation, but I hope it works out.. CC would be outstanding as well, but this is one time where I think the offensive signing is more important.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Please no on Hoffman. Please.
B Maverick
Footballguy
looks like the signed Blake for 3 years. I like it. He played an excellent 3rd and is a 20 hr guy who also gives them veteran leadership in the clubhouse. Dewitt stays at 2nd where he did a superb job. They also signed Loretta to play a less injured Nomar role. He can fill in at all 4 infield spots and is decent off the bench. Furcal and Manny should be priorities. I would love CC but they need hitting more then pitching. They have some promising pitchers in the minors and a 4th or 5th starter like pettite or r johnson wouldnt be too bad. I dont think they sign either aging veteran though unless pettite comes to town.
He is done as a full time closer but still has good stuff. As a mentor to Broxton and a leader in the pen why not?I will miss Beimel though.
Mr Capicollo
Footballguy
I guess they're waiting out Manny, and so far that's worked out as Manny's not had any serious suitors, but still . . .
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
Boras contacts the DodgersI guess Colletti and Boras were thinking the same thing, especially Boras.
I guess they're waiting out Manny, and so far that's worked out as Manny's not had any serious suitors, but still . . .
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
The Andrew Jones deal is a nice move for the Dodgers - anything that gets him closer to leaving the club is a big plus in my book. I wonder how they'll spend the money at this point. Boras is trying to wait the Dodgers out for Manny, hoping that the Halos or Giants get serious, I guess.
Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
If the Giants outbid the Dodgers in a three year deal, I'd be upset. There's no chance the Dodgers should let Ramirez goes elsewhere unless another team offers him something in the four year $100M category.
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
See ya Fat Andrew
Probably Colletti's worst signing ever. I say probably only because he's got Schmidt on his resume as well.
Probably Colletti's worst signing ever. I say probably only because he's got Schmidt on his resume as well.
T Bell
Footballguy
If Schmidt can get healthy at all, he could still pay off as a 4th or 5th starter. I still hold out hope anyway.The failure of Jones is primarily on Jones in my book, not Colletti. How a guy could take the attitude that he's somehow a better player not working out during an offseason when he's a FA is simply mind blowing. He's a fat, lazy POS and he frankly should return the money the Dodgers paid him because he did about as much as I did to be worthy of that spot in their lineup.
B Maverick
Footballguy
G Mota returns to give some bullpen help.
Brad Ausmus is the new backup catcher. I am not sure on this though but they need someone. Martin can not do another 140+ games behind the plate. He needs to play 120 or so. He can DH in AL parks but mostly they need to keep better care of him over the season. Ausmus is a solid backup plan. Call me crazy, I actually thought LoDuca may be a decent candidate for the backup role. We shall she how Ausmus does...
Reports LA is talking to P Jon Garland. Garland, who was 14-8 with the Angels in 2008 and has won 106 Major League games at 29 without ever missing a start, is among the most desirable starting pitchers left in the marketplace.
He would be a solid #4 guy. Lowe light since he eats innings and will give you a lot of starts.
NOW GET OFF YOUR ### AND SIGN MANNY
Brad Ausmus is the new backup catcher. I am not sure on this though but they need someone. Martin can not do another 140+ games behind the plate. He needs to play 120 or so. He can DH in AL parks but mostly they need to keep better care of him over the season. Ausmus is a solid backup plan. Call me crazy, I actually thought LoDuca may be a decent candidate for the backup role. We shall she how Ausmus does...
Reports LA is talking to P Jon Garland. Garland, who was 14-8 with the Angels in 2008 and has won 106 Major League games at 29 without ever missing a start, is among the most desirable starting pitchers left in the marketplace.
He would be a solid #4 guy. Lowe light since he eats innings and will give you a lot of starts.
NOW GET OFF YOUR ### AND SIGN MANNY
Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
I think that about sums it up.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
#### you're right, I wasn't even thinking about that. He's heavily leveraged in real estate, right? What's the story exactly?
The Kansas Comet
Footballguy
Fixed.I haven't liked the McCourts as owners since they first came on the scene, as their purchase of the team cost us a shot at Vladimir Guerrero (instead leading to J.D. Drew as a consolation prize a year later). If they sign Manny, I'll be happy to squash my dislike of them. However, anything short of that will have me absolutely livid and getting ready to get on the "When Vin Scully leaves, I'm done with the Dodgers" train.
Would love to see Artie Moreno get involved and sign Manny. He is trying to creep on the the LA market obviously and this would be one of the few signings that could push the needle in the vain. The Manny-mania in LA last year was huge. He'd rake in Anaheim plus benefit from the DH. Angels were players for CC and Tex. They have the cash. And the Red Sox are the team the Halos always have trouble with.
I know Manny is a headache but he is worth it. 3 years at 68-70/mill seems like a reasonable deal for both sides.
I know Manny is a headache but he is worth it. 3 years at 68-70/mill seems like a reasonable deal for both sides.
T Bell
Footballguy
The Angels have flatly stated that they're not interested in Manny. I'm still suspicious that this might happen, and it would be a coup for the Angels for all of the reasons stated.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Boras declined the offer almost immediatly after it was offered. Then started making dumb comments about teams playing chicken with him...
He wont go to SF, they wont offer more then 15mill per and arent anywhere near winning.The Angels could surprise and sign him but they have denied being interested, as have the Mets and Yankees.I still think he is LA. If Boras wasnt an idiot he would of countered the 1 and 2 year offers with 3 years 25 per. I think LA would do it. 3 years is better then the 5 or 6 boras clains he wants. 1- Dodgers2- Angels3- sit out/retire/whatever4- Giants
B Maverick
Footballguy
oh and it looks like Wolf is returning to LA.
Dodgers sign Wolf to one-year deal
Return of left-hander will help bolster young rotation for LA
General manager Ned Colletti said he hasn't had any talks on Ramirez in the last two days, but he was pleased to announce the signing of Wolf, who received a one-year deal for $5 million guaranteed plus an additional $3 million in incentives.
The return of Wolf, who pitched for the Dodgers in 2007, has been one of the "other" winter-long goals of the club after losing veteran starters Derek Lowe, Brad Penny and Greg Maddux.
Wolf, 12-12 last year while splitting time between San Diego and Houston, pitched well for the Dodgers in the first half of '07 (9-6), but he missed the second half of the season with lingering shoulder problems that required surgery.
"We took a long look at it," Colletti said when asked about Wolf's health. "He made a lot of starts last year (33) and pitched a lot of innings (190 1/3). You never know until later. As far as we can tell, he's healthier than two years ago."
Wolf rebounded well enough from that shoulder surgery following the year with the Dodgers for the Astros to make a three-year offer to keep him shortly after the 2008 season ended, but the club quickly withdrew the offer as the economic climate worsened.
His Dodgers incentives are keyed to performance and durability, with an additional $500,000 at each of these innings totals: 170, 180, 185, 190, 195 and 200. Wolf last threw 200 innings in 2003.
Wolf joins a rotation with tentative starters Chad Billingsley (recovering from a broken leg), Hiroki Kuroda and Clayton Kershaw. Another spot likely is to be contested by a group that includes Jason Schmidt, Claudio Vargas, Eric Stults, Ramon Troncoso and Shawn Estes.
Wolf gives the Dodgers rotation a second left-hander, but more importantly he provides a seasoned professional and leader of an otherwise very young staff. He's also local, a graduate of El Camino Real High School in Woodland Hills and Pepperdine University in Malibu, where he schooled after declining to sign with the Dodgers when they took him in the 25th round of the 1994 First-Year Player Draft.
The Phillies drafted him in the second round in 1997, and he was in the Major Leagues two years later. Wolf pitched eight Major League seasons for Philadelphia, when he was healthy. His 2005 and '06 seasons were interrupted by elbow problems that required Tommy John elbow ligament replacement to solve.
Wolf, 32, has a 90-78 record over 10 seasons in the Major Leagues. He was an All-Star in 2003, when he went 16-10. He's a strikeout pitcher, extremely tough against left-handed hitters and helps himself at the plate. Wolf's older brother, Jim, is a Major League umpire.
Wolf had been hoping to secure a multiyear deal from the Mets, but they signed Oliver Perez earlier this week.
Wolf joins Mark Loretta, Guillermo Mota, Brad Ausmus and Vargas as free agents signed by the Dodgers this winter. Colletti said he'd still like to add a relief pitcher. Former Dodgers hurler Dennys Reyes has been rumored high on the target list.
As for the free agent who they've been unable to sign, Colletti said he has not spoken with agent Scott Boras since Wednesday, when both sides reaffirmed their positions on length of contract, which remains the largest obstacle to a deal.
Colletti said he's "sure we'll speak again." He would not speculate on a date when the Dodgers would move on without Ramirez.
Dodgers sign Wolf to one-year deal
Return of left-hander will help bolster young rotation for LA
General manager Ned Colletti said he hasn't had any talks on Ramirez in the last two days, but he was pleased to announce the signing of Wolf, who received a one-year deal for $5 million guaranteed plus an additional $3 million in incentives.
The return of Wolf, who pitched for the Dodgers in 2007, has been one of the "other" winter-long goals of the club after losing veteran starters Derek Lowe, Brad Penny and Greg Maddux.
Wolf, 12-12 last year while splitting time between San Diego and Houston, pitched well for the Dodgers in the first half of '07 (9-6), but he missed the second half of the season with lingering shoulder problems that required surgery.
"We took a long look at it," Colletti said when asked about Wolf's health. "He made a lot of starts last year (33) and pitched a lot of innings (190 1/3). You never know until later. As far as we can tell, he's healthier than two years ago."
Wolf rebounded well enough from that shoulder surgery following the year with the Dodgers for the Astros to make a three-year offer to keep him shortly after the 2008 season ended, but the club quickly withdrew the offer as the economic climate worsened.
His Dodgers incentives are keyed to performance and durability, with an additional $500,000 at each of these innings totals: 170, 180, 185, 190, 195 and 200. Wolf last threw 200 innings in 2003.
Wolf joins a rotation with tentative starters Chad Billingsley (recovering from a broken leg), Hiroki Kuroda and Clayton Kershaw. Another spot likely is to be contested by a group that includes Jason Schmidt, Claudio Vargas, Eric Stults, Ramon Troncoso and Shawn Estes.
Wolf gives the Dodgers rotation a second left-hander, but more importantly he provides a seasoned professional and leader of an otherwise very young staff. He's also local, a graduate of El Camino Real High School in Woodland Hills and Pepperdine University in Malibu, where he schooled after declining to sign with the Dodgers when they took him in the 25th round of the 1994 First-Year Player Draft.
The Phillies drafted him in the second round in 1997, and he was in the Major Leagues two years later. Wolf pitched eight Major League seasons for Philadelphia, when he was healthy. His 2005 and '06 seasons were interrupted by elbow problems that required Tommy John elbow ligament replacement to solve.
Wolf, 32, has a 90-78 record over 10 seasons in the Major Leagues. He was an All-Star in 2003, when he went 16-10. He's a strikeout pitcher, extremely tough against left-handed hitters and helps himself at the plate. Wolf's older brother, Jim, is a Major League umpire.
Wolf had been hoping to secure a multiyear deal from the Mets, but they signed Oliver Perez earlier this week.
Wolf joins Mark Loretta, Guillermo Mota, Brad Ausmus and Vargas as free agents signed by the Dodgers this winter. Colletti said he'd still like to add a relief pitcher. Former Dodgers hurler Dennys Reyes has been rumored high on the target list.
As for the free agent who they've been unable to sign, Colletti said he has not spoken with agent Scott Boras since Wednesday, when both sides reaffirmed their positions on length of contract, which remains the largest obstacle to a deal.
Colletti said he's "sure we'll speak again." He would not speculate on a date when the Dodgers would move on without Ramirez.
Regular Crust Pizza
Footballguy
1. Link that the Giants would only spend 15 mil per? They've said they'll sign him on their terms, but I haven't seen any numbers like that thrown around. 2. Giants sign Manny they're favorites in the NL west. As it is they've improved and to say they're not anywhere near winning is way off.B Maverick said:
Ramirez Speaks, and he's a bad tipper.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Thats what the reports were, approx 15 mill is all they want to spend. And they came out recently and said they wont do a multiyear deal either.
SF for 1 year at 15 mill or LA for 1 year at 25? he wont settle for the SF offer. Do i think he sits out? no. Do i think he takes less to play in SF for a year? No. Who needs a handle?
Eephus
Footballguy
On the other hand, today's signings set the market rate bar pretty low for Manny and Boras
Regular Crust Pizza
Footballguy
I don't see a link anywhere in there.
B Maverick
Footballguy
dont need a link. Its all "reportedly" anyway. besides, cant link talk radio and espn tv... Just because you cant read it doesnt mean its not true.And do you really believe SF is going to come anywhere close to the offers LA has made? Do you think Boras is going to allow his client to take anything less then the 20 mill options he got manny out of in boston, esp if LA offered 25??
Eephus
Footballguy
While the Dodgers remain the odds on favorite, I think it's pretty clear the market has been continually trending down for the past year. What was offered in July or December isn't relevant unless the same offers are on the table today. At this point, I'd expect Manny to sit out most of Spring Training and see if injuries, suspensions or perceived problems make him more valuable. It's not like he needs a month in Arizona to get in shape and work his batting eye.Of course, he'll probably sign tomorrow
T Bell
Footballguy
And they also remove two more teams that could potentially make an offer for Manny. Manny's leverage is shrinking too. Who else can Boras now credibly claim is interested?
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
Congrats on getting O dog. He was one of my favorite players. Lots of injuries have held him back. As sorry as I am to see him leave he is getting old and his best is behind him. I also think he screwed up pretty bad with his contract. He could have stayed with the D backs for more but he thought he could get more and now he has less. In the long run this could be really good for the Dbacks. The doggers got an aging 2nd baseman on the downside of his career and we got the doggers 17th first round pick. Win win for Dbacks.
According to MLB.com, Orlando Hudson’s new deal with the Dodgers is for one year and $3.38 million, with another $4.6 million in incentives.
It makes us wonder how we should feel about it.
From what we understand, before the 2008 season, the Diamondbacks offered Hudson a four-year deal worth about $29 million. It would have been for roughly $5 million in ’08 and $24 million for the next three years -- his first three free-agent years.
Apparently, Hudson responded with a huge counteroffer, a deal so unrealistic that it actually upset people with the Diamondbacks. Hudson wound up avoiding arbitration in 2008 with a $6.25 million deal, and you know how his offseason unfolded.
On the one hand, you could say Hudson tried to break the bank and lost out, big time.
According to MLB.com, Orlando Hudson’s new deal with the Dodgers is for one year and $3.38 million, with another $4.6 million in incentives.
It makes us wonder how we should feel about it.
From what we understand, before the 2008 season, the Diamondbacks offered Hudson a four-year deal worth about $29 million. It would have been for roughly $5 million in ’08 and $24 million for the next three years -- his first three free-agent years.
Apparently, Hudson responded with a huge counteroffer, a deal so unrealistic that it actually upset people with the Diamondbacks. Hudson wound up avoiding arbitration in 2008 with a $6.25 million deal, and you know how his offseason unfolded.
On the one hand, you could say Hudson tried to break the bank and lost out, big time.
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B Maverick
Footballguy
I am not sure how I feel on Hudson. At 31 he is hardly getting old, but now they have Hudson and Dewitt at 2nd. Rumors of Dewitt to 3rd and blake to left if manny doesnt sign doesnt excite me. Hudson is a .300/10 hr guy, not the power they need. With Loretta on board as utility guy that leaves dewitt out when manny signs.
Hudson and Furcal may make a top duo up the middle but Dewitt had a great end of the year there too.
Still need to sign manny to make this year worth anything
Hudson and Furcal may make a top duo up the middle but Dewitt had a great end of the year there too.
Still need to sign manny to make this year worth anything
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