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Footballguy
But then he would labeled an "injury risk" by many around here.
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Ladainan: Officially a vaccum (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter NY/NJMFDIVER
- Start date
I agree with Marc Levin. You can't blame ANY of this on LT. And to say he sucks? Helllllllllllllllloooooooooooooo reality! Come back to it sometime... 
coolnerd
Footballguy
My comment was more an observation. a consistent player is probably a tougher get than a guy who has one or two great weeks...see Blaylock this week.As for a good the fantasy owner stuff being able to still have a good team sometimes good owners loss a couple of close early games, have injuries, and a questionable waiver pick up and a line-up that looks great around labor day is not so good even if an LT type is still performing.
Air Coryell
Footballguy
I don't think what happened today w/ LT changes the rational on why LT was pulled at the end of the Tenn game.When the groin was bad they were holding LT out of the Wed and Thur practices. This past wk LT said it felt better than the previous few weeks and practiced on Thursday and Friday. If a player is practicing more I tend to believe that he's getting better. IF its getting to the point that LT gets better through the week and then re-injures it durring the game, and can't last the whole game, than yeah maybe its time to sit him a few week or two.
c'mon...gimme a break... and give yourself a break and don't put yourself in a lower class.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Har-dee-harr-har.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
It IS your fault.THEY TELL YOU to tweak them.You are taking the risk in them being incorrect if you blindly follow what they project, and you have no complaint if what they project is wrong. They are NOT beholden to you to make their projections correct - they are only beholden to you to do the best job they can. If you are a lemming, you can't complain when you then follow the herd over the side of the cliff.It is precisely why they make it so simple that a 7 year old could change the numbers on the VBD and Draft Dominator tools.It is, I am sure, flattering to Joe and Dave that you think their projections, as is, are good enough. But, if you blindly follow those projecitons and make not a single alteration based on your own independent thought, you are using only half of the resources we provide. Furthermore, and the bigger sin,is that you are not learning this game and you are not improving your play. This site was designed to get fanatical about the game of fantasy football - not to have it spoon fed to you - not even if the dinner is David Dodds sauce served over Braised Steak Bryant.I understand the lazy attitude of giving someone twenty bucks to do tedious homework so you don't have to, but if you don't even glance at the homework before you turn it in and it is answering math problem with essays on Taoism, whose fault is it you got an F? Both of you, of course, but you share the bulk of the blame in not checking the work before taking the test. Think of the FBGuy draft tools as a template with most of the information filled in - all you have to do is figure who you like or don't like and tweak those players. If you simply looked at and tweaked the top-20 per position, you would have invested no more than another hour into making sure the players were projected as YOU wanted them to be rather than how everyoine else with the tool had them projected - you may have seen that Joe and Dvavid gave LT 80/700/3 in receiving numbers - and you may have thought (as I did) that the numbers would drop much farther than that - you'd have tweaked the document and found LT as the #2 and you would have had taken Priest instead - or whatever. Take responsibility for yourself and your draft - blame shifting aint gonna make you a better player, nor will it affect in ANY way how Joe and David do their projections.Joe and David will ALWAYS fess up when their projections turn out to be wrong - but they are not subject to criticism for making incorrect projections. If you don't even glance at their projections before relying on them for your draft, what do you really have to criticize, anyway - if their projections as is were sufficient at that time to stand in as your projections, you were as wrong as they were and you have, again, nothing to say. Noone gets it right 100% of the time, and for you to expect Joe and David to be subject to your criticism when they get it slightly wrong, you better coagh up quite a few more of those double sawbucks. And, really, what is this - LT as the #7 RB in week 7 instead of the #1 or #2 RB means you have a right to criticize them? Gimmee a break.
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Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Nope - which is why in "Levin world" the Red Sox did what they were supposed to after game three, curled up in the fetal positionin their dugout somietime after the 3rd innig of Game 6. See in that world, the Sox are NOT playing in the World Series, in fact, the Yankees are currently trotting Babe Ruth out there to beat the Brooklyn Dodgers - who will NEVER leave Brooklyn.OK, no more Fried Twinkies after 10 p.m.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Noone - I think I've been restrained in tone, but insanely long winded. Like STUPID long winded.
This is the first Sunday I spent this season not having to do ANYthing except check my fantasy squads and lay around watching games. I guess I have a lot of commentary stored up.Usually I am doing SOME "real-life" work on Sundays - chores, laundry, WORK (almost every Sunday I have to do SOMEthing to prepare for Monday, but not today). Today was all pre-game NFL, eat, check FF squads, hit the Pool, drink some more coffee, lie around watching football, reading the newspaper, checking the live scoring, hit the pool, eat some more, start drinking beer - more commetary in the Pool while checking live fantasy scores... I guess I DID have a lot to do today. 
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NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Ladainan has no mulitple touchdown games and only two 100 yard rushing games in basically half a season. Nice numbers for a middle of the pack back. But for an RB that's expected to carry your fantasy squad, those numbers do not come close to cutting it, I"m sorry. I can't fathom why people get so angry. He's still a great NFL back, he's still got all the promise in the world. But, as I said earlier, based on draft position in nearly all fantasy leagues, the guy has been a dissappointment. A dissappointment to the level where I'll say he sucks.
Neo
The Dude minds
Good story about Tomlinson's injury. I don't know, doesn't sound all that promising, especially with Chatman gain so many ypc.....I think LT should take a week off.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/charg...s25chside2.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/charg...s25chside2.html
I think the fact that he wasn't on the field yesterday when the games is close in the 4th quarter says a lot about his injury. Wouldn't you think LT would be on the field when the Chargers are up by only 4 points with less than 4 minutes in the game? Seems like a perfect time to feed your stud running back and let him get yards while running out the clock.The Chargers aren't telling the whole story about this injury. As a LT owner I am definitely concerned. The guy doesn't suck, he's just injured. Big difference.
smcindoe
Footballguy
Yes they are. Sorry, but they went into a business where they sell information and analysis. With the exception of a couple of downloadable applications, information is their entire product. When it turns out to be bad information, then they are subject to criticism from paying customers. If they (or you) don't like that side of things, then they shouldn't be running a business.
coolnerd
Footballguy
The point is that yes LT has not produced the he won your fantasy match-up by himself game, but he has produced consistent enough result that if the rest of your team was in order that you should be winning. My LT team sucks, not because he has not went crazy, but because my QBs were MCNair/Brad johnson and 2nd RB domDavis/travis henry. Do I wish he had a 200 yards 3TD performance yes, but disappointing does not equal suck.Do you prefer Aham Green where you have gotten a performance like yesterday with 2 or 3 weeks where he did produce even mediocore fantasy numbers??
smcindoe
Footballguy
This feels like one of those stories where the team will downplay the injury all year, but in the off-season we'll start hearing things like "Well, LT was hurt all year, you really have no idea what he was playing through, he was a warrior for even being out there", etc.That said, I'm not sure what LT owners can do at this point. It is what it is. I don't see how you can bench him even if he is only playing three quarters a game, and it's probably too late to trade him now. And for those of us in keeper leagues, even a trade isn't much of an option.I think the only course of action is to grit out teeth and ride it out.
Synthesizer
Footballguy
Since he hurt his groin a few weeks ago, his running style has definitely changed. He's been more of a "hit the hole and fall forward" kind of guy rather than the guy who's always looking for a homerun like he usually is. And we all know that groin injuries tend to linger for most of the season so I'm not sure how much better he'll get.And even with that being said, he's scored a TD in 6 of 7 games and is a top 5 RB in most leagues. Best RB in the league. Don't blame him for playing through a groin injury which is hurting your fantasy football team. He's just doing whatever he can to help the Chargers win.
zamboni
Footballguy
As an LT owner (keeper league), I too am a bit disappointed. Yes, he's scoring, but not having the dominant games of the past.BUT, no one can exactly fault him for getting hurt. He's obviously gutting out a very painful injury and still playing better than 95% of RBs out there.And, he's enough of a team player to take himself out of the game when he knows a capable backup is performing well, as opposed to taking the "me-first" route and demanding to be in there.I tip my hat to him, even if he won't lead my team to victory.
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GregR_2
Footballguy
It is moronic to think that because someone else didn't predict the future with 100% accuracy, that they gave you "bad information". Bad information is saying that Owens is injured when legitimate sources are saying he's healthy and playing. It isn't not knowing with 100% accuracy what the future will bring.If you truly believed that your $20 was entitling you to access to an infallible crystal ball, you have a lot more problems in your life to deal with than whether LT is the #1 RB or the #7. If you truly believed that, I suggest you also not read any emails from Nigerian dictators with banking problems.
If you couldn't understand that projections were just that, PROJECTIONS, not definite RESULTS, then I wouldn't expect to go very far in your life.
Stop looking for someone to blame. You know you agreed with their projections for LT just as every other person on the planet did. People in here are just trying to use others as scapegoats. There is a difference between accepting criticisms, and accepting ridiculous criticisms that a 6 year old could tell you are a farce.
[/rant]
smcindoe
Footballguy
Nobody's asking for perfection. Nobody expects a crystal ball.What we would like is to be able to question/criticize/discuss a projection without the staffers and old-timers immediately circling the wagons, talking down to us, and ridiculing us for wanting to use the information we paid for. After all, if we're not supposed to give any weight at all to the projections on this site, then why post them?Good post, though. You certainly taught your strawman a lesson.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
This thread has me scratching my head. In my league, LT is ranked ahead of every RB that was even considered in the same breath with him in the preseason - except Holmes. Ahead of SA, Portis, Deuce, Green - all of them. He's 6 pts out of 3rd place. How do you think the Portis or Barlow owners feel?I really believe that people draft "studs" & expect them to blow up every week. You guys do realize that LT won't put up 200 combined w/3 TDs each week for 17 weeks, right?
Good Lord, there's many guys who are way underperforming their draft positions - they're the ones that are killing you. Not a RB who's performing within 3 spots of where he was drafted.
I was going to post something similar to thisvery very good post here.This is exactly what is going on here.....I've watched all of San Deigo's games this year, and after he hurt his groin, he's been a different playerTrying to gut it out for the sake of the team, but he has no burst right now.Just getting the handoff and basically falling forward.Breaking no tackles and going down at first contact.Not the LT2 i know and love
HERBERT THE HIPPO
REAL Ultimate Power
The correct spelling is vacuum.
While we're on the subject I'm interested to know what constitutes an "expert" in your mind. Accurate projections are next to impossible and my expectations of FBG's pre-season rankings and weekly cheatsheets are tempered by this. But then the term "expert" is introduced and never defined.By the way, congrats on your correct use of "tow the company line."
Neo
The Dude minds
Does anyone here think that he should sit a week to heal? From my understanding, which to say, isn't very much, but from doing some research, a strained groin just needs rest to heal. Why not sit him this week and see what rest does for it. Either that or keep him from practicing at all this week......why not get him healthy? I love LT and believe he won't sit out any games on his own because he can play through the pain......as an organization though, San Diego should consider it.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
I agree. Tomlinson needs to sit. He is gutting it out because he is in the mold of the throw back RBs who simply played through pain, which I admire BUT clearly Chatman is more than a serviceable backup. The Chargers need a healthy Tomlinson, and there is no way he gets better getting hurt every week. I don't even think the bye is the answer. I feel that the Chargers and LT are hoping to make it to the bye and then he will be o.k., I think he needs a couple of weeks at least so the groin isn't an ongoing concern. The line is doing great, and Tomlinson could be throwing up some sick stats this year as evidenced by Chatman's ypc. Shut the guy down.
He does need to sit. I think Chapman can do a VERY capable job until LT returns. It LT sits out the next two and his bye he would likely be healthy for a stretch run. In past years if he sat I wouldn't give them a snowballs chance but I think they can beat Oakland without him with the improved play of the defense and Brees, not to mention the play of Gates and the addition of McCardell. Sit him down, Shottzy...
Footballhead
WWPRD?
Since we all know that LT has been training his balance strength in the off-season and since his groin is injured...I'll say not to worry as his other groin should balance it up and he is ok folks.Also from here onwards, I see easy favorable schedule for LT all the way. I don't own him but I own Priest in my upmost important league.
GregR_2
Footballguy
I might have been a bit harsher in tone than you personally deserved. Though in defense, the last time I'd read the thread, it had ended with things like:
And after that I had gone over here to read more complaints about how a set of projections weren't accurate enough for the person's liking, without offering anything in how a non-magical being could do better than what they thought was most likely.Between those, and seeing posts every week of people who do act like their $20 buys them a crystal ball, your statement was close enough that you got caught up in the collective disgust that I've come to have for such posts. Though in retrospect, it was undeserved. You've made some good statements in this thread. Apology offered.To address what you said more directly, that card does get played a lot, but the sheer number of unreasonable posts is part of why it happens. Seldom do people post about some factor that the projectors should have been aware of and accounted for, but didn't. It could be useful to have discussions of what factors went into a projection, what the resulting projection was... and then compare them to what the reality turned out to be both in terms of factors and result. But seldom is that the case. Normally they do end up with just a bunch of whining, and after awhile people get tired of dealing with it and just give the pat answer since the complainer doesn't seem to want to do more than just complain.I'm still not sure what people expect FBGs to have done different with this set of projections for LT. His situation didn't change much negatively, especially with having the same QB in there as he had last year. They dropped his numbers over what he had last year, but I can see thinking he'd still be the main go-to guy on dump off passes. I don't know what to suggest as to how to recognize that the Chargers line would block more poorly the last three weeks than they did early on... that LT would have the groin problem linger, and that Antonio Gates would end up even more a part of the passing game than had already been accounted for, thus taking catches from LT. To me, those are the factors limiting him the most.But frankly, any set of projections are a "most likely", and I'm not surprised at all that LT hasn't met his projections. Before the season, I said that I thought both Priest and LT would end up #1 and #2, but that there was really nothing to suggest which of the two would drop (or, drop the furthest). And so they should still both be taken #1 and #2 and just hope that you get the right decision with each pick more than you get the wrong one.
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Neo
The Dude minds
As per cbssportsline......
"I'm struggling a little bit," Tomlinson said. "But hey, injuries are going to happen. I can't say its worse, but I don't feel any better. I'm going to continue to try and play through it. As long as I'm walking and can run a little bit, I'm going to keep playing."
How'd I'd know he'd say that. If the doctors don't rule him out, he's going to keep playing. Why did this guy not make the pro bowl again last year?
"I'm struggling a little bit," Tomlinson said. "But hey, injuries are going to happen. I can't say its worse, but I don't feel any better. I'm going to continue to try and play through it. As long as I'm walking and can run a little bit, I'm going to keep playing."
How'd I'd know he'd say that. If the doctors don't rule him out, he's going to keep playing. Why did this guy not make the pro bowl again last year?
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I have LT in a yardage league. I paid almost 50% of the salary cap for him and have been disappointed. This week he was matched up against Holmes and was outscored 29-8. I expect LT to outscore the other teams RB1, hopefully by 10 or 20. It is sad to see him outscored by 20. He was also outscored by my bench players Pittman (18-8), Suggs, and Green. He has no 20 point games this year. I want to see the real LT. He needs to get healthy or not play.On a related note, I have never seen so many game time decisions and players missing practice then playing. I think coaches need to get back to no practice, no play. This week I started Moss and got zero. 
Wilbur Wood
Footballguy
I own LT in one league. What has been frustrating is 2 close losses out of the last 3 weeks, in games in which a "healthy" LT would have likely gained another > 50 yards/1 TD per game and the extra 10-14 pts. would have generated wins. Clearly, the unique individual ebbs and flows of the last 3 games were the exact situations in which a "healthy" LT would have flourished against defenses that had softened during the prior 3 quarters. What is also frustrating is that I do own Chatman, and as "first-guess" (not a "2nd guess") I would have preferred that LT sit out 1 or 2 of these games and that Chatman had started (again, given the game context of the past 3 weeks, Chatman would have produced (assuming he didn't get hurt with extra work) at or above the level LT has during these games). This would have restored to LT to full health instead of situation that arguably is getting worse and not better.Ascribing any criticism to LT himself or anyone "expert" who had ranked as a Top 2 RB this year is crazy. While it is fair that we all take our lumps for rostering players that have a history of injuries (i.e., SDavis, MFaulk, etc), LT has no prior history and thus this situation is as random as Deuce's high ankle sprain or Priest's mysterious "hip injury" during the 2002 FF playoffs.A player's health, like the weather, will fluctuate from year-to-year and drive variances in performance (C-Mart, LT, RMoss, McNabb). Absent this injury, I firmly believe that LT would have been producing at the same Godly-rate of point per game production that he had done in 2003 because the game opportunities have been there.
smcindoe
Footballguy
Fair enough. Apology accepted.
Agreed, as I said elsewhere I don't really see LT being a FBG "miss" yet. You can't project a lingering injury, and even then he's not far off last year's pace. My only gripe with FBG and Tomlinson is that they were too slow to notice how the groin injury was affecting him -- this has been going on for three weeks now, and has been raised in this forum several times, and they've only really jumped on the story this week. If someone out there pulled the trigger on a big LT2 trade last week based on FBG's continued high rankings of him, then I could see them having a legitimate gripe.The rest of us can just grit out teeth and hope we have enough depth and/or luck to muddle through. But if we don't, you have to blame the groin, not the projections. You can't pin this one of FBGs.(Now Kevan Barlow, on the other hand...)
Neo
The Dude minds
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/charg...26chargers.html
I like what I'm hearing here. Felt better yesterday then it has after any other game......they know he needs rest, I think they won't practice him much until after the bye week.
I like what I'm hearing here. Felt better yesterday then it has after any other game......they know he needs rest, I think they won't practice him much until after the bye week.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
He still sucks!
cstu
Footballguy
He doesn't suck (amazing that he can go out and play at such a high level even though he's hurt), but is costing owners games. Unless you have a lot of depth, you have to start him and for most people getting 13 points out of the guy you draft #1 or #2 overall isn't getting the job done. I started out 5-1 and have now lost 3 games in row and am looking at missing the playoffs. The injury to Thomas Jones didn't help either the last 2 weeks.
delusional
Footballguy
Had ATrain in over LT, then i figured it cant happen 3 weeks in a row...boy was i wrong...cost me the game this week basically too. He is benched. Who am i kidding, i dont have a shot in hell of winning this year yet let alone the playoffs. 4 guys going tomorrow, guaranteed that one of the 4 get hurt. Wayne Pollard MRob or MAnderson. Watch.
NYG Endzone
Footballguy
I was offered LT and Fred Taylor.Giving up Priest and M Bennett.Should I pull the trigger? Its tempting
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
In a dynasty I most likely would.
NYG Endzone
Footballguy
I also have Dom Davis, so i wasn't sure if i should be too eager to let preist go.So now I have: Preist, Dom, BennettAfter I would have: LT, Fred Taylor, and Dom
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Tomlinson is more than holding his own. He practically scores every week. No monster games yet, but if indeed the bye helps and a he is healthy week 11, the schedule the rest of the way is tasty.
1 Tomlinson,Ladainian 257.92 Alexander,Shaun 257.73 Barber,Tiki 257.74 Martin,Curtis 253.05 James,Edgerrin 244.66 Dillon,Corey 222.37 Davis,Domanick 216.28 Westbrook,Brian 205.59 Portis,Clinton 198.610 Holmes,Priest 197.9(Pretty amazing that Priest is still top 10, considering he only played in 8 games.)
LordHusker
Hot sauce addict
Wow, that's hilarious. You look really stupid.
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