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La'el Collins stock just dropped (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter On The Rocks
- Start date
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
There are differences, seemingly.
Maybe Collins is involved, I'm not assuming that, though. There is risk. We'll see if he goes sometime in day two or three?
Put it this way, if he had picked up the ex that night, late in the morning, and her body was left a few blocks from his house, he than destroyed his security/survellance system and had his girl friend dump a mystery box within about 24 hours, left footprints at the crime scene, shell casings in his returned rental car, was seen on camera waving a gun around like Scarface immediately before and after the murder, and also, if she had possible knowledge of two OTHER previous other alleged murders which she may have been silenced over, and Collins had other alleged shooting incidents in his past, such as shooting another friend in the face and dumping him out of a car left for dead, as well as investigated over another shooting in college... THAN there would be more direct parallels with Hernandez.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
If he falls past the 2nd round, NFL should let him withdraw and let him enter the suplimental draft.
massraider
Footballguy
Ian Rapaport spoke to his agents.
If he doesn't get drafted in the 2nd or 3rd, he's sitting out, and going back in the draft.
If he doesn't get drafted in the 2nd or 3rd, he's sitting out, and going back in the draft.
Penguin
Footballguy
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter 25m25 minutes ago
La'el Collins and his reps have decided if he's not selected tonight he will not sign a contract with a team and will renter draft next year
La'el Collins and his reps have decided if he's not selected tonight he will not sign a contract with a team and will renter draft next year
whoknew
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
This was predictable. If innocent, that may be smart, to let teams know he won't be avail in round 4-7, don't even bother unless taken in 2-3. It could prompt a team (only takes one) to take a chance on him today. Especially if they are able to uncover any additional information pointing to his innocence?
cstu
Footballguy
If he had done that the public perception would be completely different. I would also have speaking to every member of the media to explain how I couldn't possibly have been involved and said how unfair it was for the police to mention my name immediately before the draft. Again, if - unlike Collins - I have nothing to hide.
Penguin
Footballguy
Eric Edholm @Eric_Edholm 5m5 minutes ago
League source: La'el Collins passed polygraph test administered by investigative team retained by Collins Thurs. Talking to police Monday.
League source: La'el Collins passed polygraph test administered by investigative team retained by Collins Thurs. Talking to police Monday.
i think you are trolling or acting intentionally dense. regardless, i will indulge somewhat. there are plenty of things that can wrong when talking to the police. they are experts at getting a person to incriminate themselves or misremember a situation.
an example, the police interrogate him on his relationship with the woman. it comes to light, that yes, they did have a bad break up, and there were some raised voices or even screaming and he did indeed harbor some resentment. boom, thats motive. no matter that these things transpire in many youthful relationships, esp from poorer folk.
another, lets say they are going over routine details of that day and days leading up to the murder. he misremembers exactly which day he went to burger king, and which day he went to cvs. or, he initially mentions burger king for lunch 3 days ago, then later, he says it was his dinner. boom, hes lying to the police and acting evasive. nevermind that most ppl cant keep pristine track of all of their errands and meals for days or weeks prior.
realize, it is the job of the police to create such inconsistencies. and they are better at it than you, bc they do it all year long. you have no experience withstanding a police interrogation. and you proly dont remember all of the details of your prior days.
in gambling there is the concept of a reverse freeroll. in such a case, you cant win, but can only lose or break even. talking to the police is the epitome of a reverse freeroll. you cant exonerate yourself, but you can draw more attention to yourself, or present evidence to authorities, whether it is deserved or not. there is no upside.
Max Power
Footballguy
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Given the situation---two unwed young kids dealing with a pregnancy---it couldn't have been all hugs and kisses, so that might explain the desire for a lawyer.
well, you are assuming way too much.
also, you may misremember and that could be construed as a lie, rather than an honest mistake.
ima stop now. its way too likely you are trolling.
cstu
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Waiting for the Pats to take him in the 3rd
spider321
Footballguy
spider321
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Sad. Hopefully they catch the killer. That could be special circumstances. Don't know about LA state law, but a double murder sometimes gets the death penalty.
jurb26
Footballguy
Right but it doesn't just work this way does it? He entered the draft so they can take him. Even if he doesn't want to play they will own his rights, correct?
tombonneau
Footballguy
I believe he can sit out a year and the teams rights will lapse and he can re-enter regardless of who drafts him.
Same concept that allowed petulant babies Elway and Eli to stomp and hold their breath until they were traded to the teams they wanted to go to.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
Yeah, he doesn't have to sign any contract, and teams rights do expire if they can't get him signed. I wonder if he could just play in another league for a year and then enter the draft. I don't THINK he could be a UFA until he signed an initial rookie contract though.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
I also think this is one area where the rigid rookie pay scale is limiting (though I like it in general). Assuming he is innocent, he wouldn't necessarily have to sit out a year without the rookie scale, because he could split the salary difference with a team that drafted him in the 4th or have it reworked later. But as it is, he is really limited because those deals are fairly set in stone salary wise for a long time, so if he gets picked in the 4th he gets the 4th round salary for the rest of the contract.
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massraider
Footballguy
Right now, there is some uncertainty about whether or not he can re-enter the draft next year after going undrafted.
It's never been done before. You can re-enter the draft after being drafted, a team will only hold your rights for a year.
He'd be more like Duron Carter, a free agent. Why wait till next year?
Let the kid go undrafted, and cut his own deal after clearing his name. UDFA can cut their own deal. They aren't bound by slotting of draft picks
It's never been done before. You can re-enter the draft after being drafted, a team will only hold your rights for a year.
He'd be more like Duron Carter, a free agent. Why wait till next year?
Let the kid go undrafted, and cut his own deal after clearing his name. UDFA can cut their own deal. They aren't bound by slotting of draft picks
massraider
Footballguy
That's the question
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If he goes I drafted, he becomes an UDFA and can sign with anyone, but it is doubtful a team would give him the contract he would have gotten had he been a Top 10 overall pick. If he is drafted and does not sign a contract, his rights stay with the team he drafted for this NFL season and then he goes back in the draft pool. This has happened several times, most notably with Bo Jackson.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If he does not sign with a team as an UDFA, he is still eligible to be drafted. So a team would have an option of drafting him if he wants to get top dollar. Teams technicLly could sign him without drafting him, so he question would be who would pony up the money to get him next year.
massraider
Footballguy
This is not clear at all. Has never happened, they aren't sure if he is eligible for the draft if he goes undrafted
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
If he doesn't get drafted and gets cleared, it would make zero sense for him not to sign as an UDFA with someone. Going back into the draft would just mean having to pay him the same amount AND having to use a draft pick.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don't see how it's any different than if he were drafted and didn't sign. Either way he was not signed by a team and would be considered an available player.
More likely a team that wants to sign him would sign him but would have to pay him more than a street free agent.
More likely a team that wants to sign him would sign him but would have to pay him more than a street free agent.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
I can't blame him if he says "pay me like I am the 32nd pick in the draft or I won't sign"
massraider
Footballguy
Let's assume, for the sake of this discussion, that Collins is a great guy, and gets cleared with no prejudice. Because if he's not, this discussion is pointless.
I am learning this as I go, but what I am piecing together:
Now, Collins will be on a shorter contract as a UDFA than as a 3rd or 4th rounder, but all that means is that he becomes an exclusive rights RFA soon, and doesn't really see big money. Better than being a 5th rounder, but not much.
As far as I can see, the best situation, money-wise, is for him to get some clearance from the league to re-enter next year after sitting out.
If I was an NFL team, I would go after him with a UDFA contract, maybe with some weird wording that has a team option that doesn't get picked up or whatever. Essentially a wink-wink option that allows him to become a free agent, and then give him a better deal later. Some team will get creative, deal with him in good faith, and maybe get a 1st round talent for nothing.
I am learning this as I go, but what I am piecing together:
- There is no precedent for this, because, really, who would ever draft a guy a year after he went undrafted? Why would a player's stock go up? Once you a free agent, you a free agent. Duron Carter wasn't eligible for the draft this year. He signed with whoever he wanted.
- You can see where the confusion would come from. Collins is going to be a free agent in a few hours, maybe, and then next spring he's not a free agent? That doesn't make sense.
- This is a big one I learned: Teams cannot just throw whatever money they want at Collins as a free agent. He is subject to the rookie pool, and UDFA contract rules, and all that. Teams have a ceiling on how much they can spend on UDFA, and it's not a lot of money:
That is total, for ALL off their UDFA.
Now, Collins will be on a shorter contract as a UDFA than as a 3rd or 4th rounder, but all that means is that he becomes an exclusive rights RFA soon, and doesn't really see big money. Better than being a 5th rounder, but not much.
As far as I can see, the best situation, money-wise, is for him to get some clearance from the league to re-enter next year after sitting out.
If I was an NFL team, I would go after him with a UDFA contract, maybe with some weird wording that has a team option that doesn't get picked up or whatever. Essentially a wink-wink option that allows him to become a free agent, and then give him a better deal later. Some team will get creative, deal with him in good faith, and maybe get a 1st round talent for nothing.
massraider
Footballguy
Collins knows the teams cannot pay him what they want, that's why he wants back in the draft.
Commish has to make a ruling on this.
Commish has to make a ruling on this.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
NFL will form a committee of over priced lawyers and get back to La'el in 4 months.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Yep. But no one's gonna throw him a bone as a 7th rounder, just so he can re-enter the draft. Best chance is as a UDFA.
Bummer for the kid.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
It would be cool if the last team does him a huge favor and makes him Mr Irrelevant.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
But that could still work out for him if he can manage to get a 1 year deal. He can at least get paid for the year, be in an NFL program, show what he can do, and play for a real contract after the first year.
Although I would think most teams would insist on more years than that.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
I don't know how the league would feel about this, but the maybe the team that throws away the 7th round pick works a deal with him that says we will sign you to X amount next year.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Of course they would. These teams are not in the charity business, if they get a UDFA that hits, they get to hang onto him for three years, I think. he would get more money as a 4th year RFA, but that's small potatoes.
I can't see any reason why the NFL couldn't offer some special dispensation to allow him to enter the draft next year. It's not like it would create a loophole or something.
