Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Herp is clear?
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Lesean McCoy? How concerned are we? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
JFS171
Footballguy
Think I'm playing him in DFS if he's good to go... Buffalo is one of those offenses that seems to run on anyone. Have to assume if he's up, he's ready to rock. As others have said, surely with the bye next week, they won't play him unless he's ready to go.
Been a few reports from guys like Rappaport that the Bills are expecting to see a nearly full-go Shady tonight.
Been a few reports from guys like Rappaport that the Bills are expecting to see a nearly full-go Shady tonight.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
They held him back in last week's division game so he would be ready for this week's non-conference game?Sounds like they held him out last week to get ready for this game... I don't own McCoy, but I've used him in DFS, and the small slates this week aren't chocked full of options.
Given the information we've got...
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JFS171
Footballguy
JFS171
Footballguy
I phrased that poorly. It's been reported when he was held out of the Pats game, the Bills expected him to only miss one week -- expected him to play this week.
I don't think they'd logically hold him out of a division game to play a non-conference game.
https://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/795773770795319296
LeSean McCoy running through pregame drills without any apparent limitations.
LeSean McCoy running through pregame drills without any apparent limitations.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I have no idea how healthy it is but..
I get the feeling that people who see him do footwork drills during pregame warm-ups and declare him healthy have never actually sprinted in their life.
crusty crab
Footballguy
Besides the reports of him being active, the team itself tweeted out that he is playing. ESPN is showing him running around. Looks fine to me. Not gonna overthink it and put him back in.
Buffalo Bills @buffalobills 3m3 minutes ago CenturyLink Field
Does it look like Shady's ready to roll? That's because he is. McCoy is officially playing tonight.#BUFvsSEA
Buffalo Bills
Does it look like Shady's ready to roll? That's because he is. McCoy is officially playing tonight.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
Man, this is one of those national games where everyone and their brother kind of expect it to go a certain way and lots of people probably think Shady should sit this week and through the bye so it stands to reason that this end up being one of those nights were Shady just erupts and goes bonkers and wows us one more time.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Looked great tonight. Will be winning some leagues down the stretch after the bye.
Wish Buf had pulled off the win to keep them more relevant in the standings.
Wish Buf had pulled off the win to keep them more relevant in the standings.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I thought he lacked some burst off the line. The 1st half he looked really sluggish.
He had a few nice runs overall, and definitely made a couple of good cuts - and once he got a head of steam going he picked up speed. I don't think his hammy is 100%.
2nd half he was a little looser, but if i recall correctly he was running directly behind a blocker a few times on slow developing run plays.
one run in the second half he looked a bit faster, but I never quite saw the burst off the line that I'm used to seeing with him.
They had a pretty significant timeshare going too - Gillisee & Taylor ran quite a bit.
Thought maybe they were easing him in...he certainly didn't have his normal workload or production.
He also got hurt on a noncontact fall, checked by trainers and came back for the 2 pt conversion after the Glee TD.
i think McCoy owners were happy to get what they got out of him after the last few weeks, but this certainly wasn't a great performance. And Seattle's D was getting owned in the 1st half, so it's not like the matchup held him down.
If he avoided injury, he should get better as the weeks go on - I just wonder if they'll stick with the heavier timeshare to keep him healthy. Glee looked really good, and appeared to be used in the receiving game more. And Taylor is always a threat to tuck & run...time will tell I guess.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Looked.good to me vs a tough run d on the road. Another week off to get ready for the stretch run
Weird, I didn't get to see much at all, but watched him run a few times in the first half and he looked good from what I saw. There was absolutely some cut and burst when he juked Sherman on a 10 yard run. That sure wouldn't be what I'd consider sluggish.
Looked like McCoy to me. Bummed beyond belief he could not reach the end zone but that's my problem.
Also if you discount the MIA game where he was hobbled he has had one easy matchup all season, against SF. In terms of rushing yards per game allowed in 6 of his first 7 full games played he has faced a run defense that is 13th or higher in rushing yards allowed per game. After the bye the best rush defense he faces gives up 18th most rushing yards a game.
I
Also if you discount the MIA game where he was hobbled he has had one easy matchup all season, against SF. In terms of rushing yards per game allowed in 6 of his first 7 full games played he has faced a run defense that is 13th or higher in rushing yards allowed per game. After the bye the best rush defense he faces gives up 18th most rushing yards a game.
I
No, it won't. The backup center is now important, but Eric Wood broke his leg last night. He's one of the best centers in the league. That will hurt.
That said, I am pretty optimistic with the bye week and getting out of Seattle healthy. That sets up nice for a stretch run of weeks 11-16. My best team of my three leagues had McCoy/Murray as my starters and while I wasn't sure about the late byes, I really think that is going to help those two have good end of the season runs.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Should be better than it was when a non center was playing center and McCoy was getting blown up right away at the end of the game. Obviously it's still a downgrade from an all pro center.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You're entitled to your opinion, but in the 1st half McCoy looked like he was running in quicksand. And all his longer runs started slowly and he picked up speed.
As I understand it, that's related to hamstring - burst off the line is the main issue after a hammy injury.
Now, is he still hurt or was it just a matter of his regaining confidence in his own body? Possibly the latter. But he has a week off to get healthier, and I think he will do so. But there's no way he was running at full speed or effectiveness. And losing Eric Wood is bad for the entire Bills offense.
I think Gilisee also has carved out a larger role. They didn't check down to McCoy in the passing game, including in the 1st quarter with a wide open McCoy who had 10 easy yards in the flat, yet Taylor thought the better option was to tuck and run for 2 yards. So maybe the team didn't trust him early either.
I have no pony in this race. Just observations from watching the game. I am a Shady fan, too so it's not like I'm trying to rip the guy. I've had him on teams in the past and watched a lot of his play - he didn't look like himself, even on the longer runs. I credited good blocking more than McCoy's speed. He made some nice cuts to turn 2-3 yard losses into 4-5 yard gains, but he wasn't outrunning anyone, nor was he fast off the line.
But again, you can agree or disagree - I won't lose sleep over it. If there weren't differences of opinion, this would be a mighty boring discussion community.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Huge loss IMO. Wood is one of the best in the league. Whoever is behind him is a major downgrade.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Hilights of McCoy from MNF
Not sure how anyone can watch that and not think the burst/cuts/quickness are back. Cant wait for rest of season.
Not sure how anyone can watch that and not think the burst/cuts/quickness are back. Cant wait for rest of season.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Meh - now let'a see the lowlights reel from the 1st quarter.
Also, on the 2nd "highlight" run he was in the shadow of a man mountain the whole run.
the cuts were there, and like I said, he got better as the game went on - but the entire 1st he was sluggish.
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mnmplayer
Footballguy
I'm just glad he appears to have made it through the game unscathed. Have you seen his upcoming sch? Thre isn't a red matchup on the list and many are green. The only one that sort of concerns me is wk16 vs MIA. When you compare his remaining sch vs the relatively tough sch he had in the first part of the season, it looks very promising to think how well he scored vs some tough D. He dropped 26+ on ARZ D for example.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
If you own McCoy, don't drop Gilislee. I know it's tempting with the upcoming bye but I feel pretty confident in saying that he's a top tier handcuff. Given the schedule and BUF's commitment to running the ball, you'll want their starter ROS.
Also, whoever came in for Wood last night wasn't their back-up center. From what I read their back-up center was inactive. He's still a huge downgrade from Wood but at least BUF is going to get a week to work him in.
Also, whoever came in for Wood last night wasn't their back-up center. From what I read their back-up center was inactive. He's still a huge downgrade from Wood but at least BUF is going to get a week to work him in.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
The last few plays on that last drive you could really see that Seattle was blowing up plays up the middle. Groy didn't seem to know his assignments. Even if they coach him up, will he be able to hold his own? Buffalo really needs to look at some options on the street right now as they head into their bye.stbugs said:
I thought McCoy looked like his old self to me. No limp, still had burst and nice change of direction. As for Gillislee, he's been a good back for the team. However, their skills are not quite the same. Gillislee is fast, but he doesn't have the jumpcut/juke ability that McCoy has. Gillislee will hit the hole fast and sometimes break something for a good or big gain, but he isn't elusive like McCoy, and that's where Shady gets a LOT of his yards. I honestly don't think there was a lack of trust with McCoy. Tyrod has had some questionable decision making this year, although this by far was his best game as a pro. It seemed that early on Gillislee was in a lot more than usual, which isn't all that surprising considering Shady is returning from injury. I'm sure they are being careful with McCoy, but there's no reason to doubt that he won't be 100% after the bye.Hot Sauce Guy said:
That's good advice, if you're not in a short bench league and can hold the roster spot. Gillislee did well last year when he was used and he has done a good job this year as well. The team has been reluctant to rely on him too much (see Miami where they flipped the script and decided to throw all game), but he has done well when given a chance. If McCoy gets hurt, he will have some immediate value. Even if he is not hurt, Karlos Williams was able to be fantasy relevant last year as the #2, so there is no reason that Gillislee cannot. That replacement was Ryan Groy, one of the OL who is cross trained at all the positions. He didn't do very well, and clearly didn't know his assignment a few times just from what I saw watching the game once in real time. Their backup isn't even someone I know, so I'm hoping the Bills will be in search of someone in free agent land.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He seemed very hesitant as a runner in the 1st quarter and the team seemed to shy away from him during that period as well.
That said, and as I mentioned in the in-game topic, I thought he looked better as the game went on.
I never quite saw the burst off the line I'm used to seeing with him, but he developed more confidence as the game went on.
Like i said, I don't think he's 100%, and he likely was running tentatively until he felt how his hammy would respond.
the non-contact injury was a scary moment but he came back ok.
I agree with this. And also agree that Gilisee is a hold for McCoy owners. I'd go so far as to add that Glee is a hold for non-McCoy owners who picked him up as well, as one of the higher upside handcuffs.
if he stays on the field McCoy has a nice schedule ahead of him.
And if Taylor continues to look as good as he did on MNF the Bills will win more of those games than they lose. Taylor looked spectacular at times. Looked a bit like like a smaller McNabb, with some of Wilson's escapability. Had a terrific 6th sense to feel the rush coming & a couple of his best plays were where he made multiple reads then tucked & ran a split second before the defender could get him.
Couple deep passss lacked touch (especially the wide open TD bomb that sailed on him out of the end zone) but overall he was very impressive. Kid's tough as nails and has a bright future - if Watkins was healthy he'd probably be having the monster season many predicted for him.
skinsrule05
Footballguy
What kind of workload were you hoping for him. He had 25 touches. I can't say I would want him to get much more then that each week.Hot Sauce Guy said:
Ignoring week 7 when he barely played he was averaging 21 touches a game and this tied his max of 25. This was also the most carries he has had in a game all season. So what do you consider his normal workload?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
When the game was over, yes - early on he was hardly used. Folks I was watching the game with were questioning whether he was being used as a decoy.
as I said in the post you quoted, I thought they were easing him in.
did you honestly think he looked good in the 1st quarter?
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
The snap/utilization split between McCoy and Gil was pretty much in line with what we've seen all season.
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5
Week 6
Week 7
Week 8
Week 9
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5
Week 6
Week 7
Week 8
Week 9
Gil
6%
8%
16%
29%
20%
23%
37%
55%
28%
1
1
3
8
2
6
5
15
10
McCoy
86%
92%
75%
70%
80%
62%
40%
0%
74%
20
20
21
25
20
22
8
0
26
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5
Week 6
Week 7
Week 8
Week 9
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5
Week 6
Week 7
Week 8
Week 9
Gil
6%
8%
16%
29%
20%
23%
37%
55%
28%
1
1
3
8
2
6
5
15
10
McCoy
86%
92%
75%
70%
80%
62%
40%
0%
74%
20
20
21
25
20
22
8
0
26
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Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Many of us Bills fans have been unhappy with him. This was by far his best game of his pro career. If he played like this all the time, there would rarely be a complaint. Unfortunately he has not and has looked lost at times this year. Throughout the season he has consistently not seen wide open receivers and looked skittish. This game he looked more like his 2015 self than what we had seen through the first half of 2016. I was thoroughly impressed, and I've been hating on him the past few weeks.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It appears Gill had higher usage than any game white Shady healthy at 28% other than week 4. Obviously weeks 7-8 are the exceptions.
Will be interesting to see the breakdown over the ROS...folks have commented on his easy schedule, but there are times that works against high mileage backs. If the bills get up a few scores in a game, might they opt to salt the game away with Gill to keep McCoy fresh? They sure took a lot of heat for playing him injured in week 7, they may not want to get criticized if Shady gets hurt in garbage time of any game.
Do you have this broken down by quarter? Would be interesting to see - seemed like McCoy hardly touched the ball in the 1st, despite being on the field for the snaps. Towards the end of the 1st I think McCoy had 21 yards.
That all said, im just commenting on last night's game.
I'm sure with a week off McCoy will go back to his dominant self. I'm not trying to owe on anyone's cheerios. I just thought McCoy was running tentatively at 1st and heated up as he developed confidence.
In 2 weeks the burst off the line should be back, provided he doesn't suffer a setback in practice.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I thought his worst play of the night was in the 1st quarter when he had a wide open McCoy in the flat on what looked like a designed screen - and Taylor looked his way once, twice and then a 3rd time before tucking and running. He was tackled for a 2 yard gain, while McCoy had 10 open yards in front of him.
It was like he didn't trust himself to make what appeared to be a relatively easy throw.
Other than that, and the bad overthrow deep, he was brilliant last night. That play late where he scrambled out of trouble and threw for the 1st on the run was spectacular - and IIRC he took a big hit from Wagner on the same play for a 15 yard bonus. Really a spectacular play.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I can do it by half. 6 of Gillislee's 8 carries actually came in the 2nd half.
However, I remember McCoy taking a drive off in the 2nd half after getting dinged.
It's very possible Gil would have finished with less touches if that didn't happen.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I agree, and have been saying the same. I don't know why so many folks got so defensive when I pointed it out.
it was just an observation, not a slight. I also said I thought he had the look of someone who gained confidence in his hammy as the game went on.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Uhh that guy is talking about you making a big deal out of nothing, he is not agreeing with you lol.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Weebs210
Footballguy
Let me know when you do something besides ramble and smiley faces. Please use your diary.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
My point was (since you missed it) that I wasn't making a huge deal out of it. I was just making an observation about his 1st quarter usage.
and he was agreeing with what I said about McCoy getting stronger as the game went on.
so I fact, we were in agreement.
Why you felt compelled to comment about it is a mystery and one I don't care to solve.
Welcome to my ignore list.
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The Kerminator
Footballguy
Wait, I thought he was faking the hamstring injury and what kept him out was herpes. It's hard to keep up.Hot Sauce Guy said:You're entitled to your opinion, but in the 1st half McCoy looked like he was running in quicksand. And all his longer runs started slowly and he picked up speed.
As I understand it, that's related to hamstring - burst off the line is the main issue after a hammy injury.
Now, is he still hurt or was it just a matter of his regaining confidence in his own body? Possibly the latter. But he has a week off to get healthier, and I think he will do so. But there's no way he was running at full speed or effectiveness. And losing Eric Wood is bad for the entire Bills offense.
I think Gilisee also has carved out a larger role. They didn't check down to McCoy in the passing game, including in the 1st quarter with a wide open McCoy who had 10 easy yards in the flat, yet Taylor thought the better option was to tuck and run for 2 yards. So maybe the team didn't trust him early either.
I have no pony in this race. Just observations from watching the game. I am a Shady fan, too so it's not like I'm trying to rip the guy. I've had him on teams in the past and watched a lot of his play - he didn't look like himself, even on the longer runs. I credited good blocking more than McCoy's speed. He made some nice cuts to turn 2-3 yard losses into 4-5 yard gains, but he wasn't outrunning anyone, nor was he fast off the line.
But again, you can agree or disagree - I won't lose sleep over it. If there weren't differences of opinion, this would be a mighty boring discussion community.
