Let's really break down the QB. Not as many (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

While it’s great to wait and wait and wait to fill the QB spot on your roster, I am here to tell you that not all QB are created equal. I know that many experts say that after the “Big3” that all the QBs are interchangeable and such. “Bah Humbug” I say. Person with Peyton Manning won in 1 of my leagues last year, McNabb in another, Culpepper another, Delhomme in yet another. My point is you do need a top10 QB in order to do well in your league. You cannot wheel out the guy ranking #25 every week and stand a strong chance. I’m not saying you have to grab a QB in the 1st 4 rounds. But I do think you need to have not just 1 but 2 strong QB with 1 that has a lot of potential to vault in order to make it far in your league. 6 point Passing TD leagues really need to focus on the QB.

I thought we should take the FBG rankings since they are the authority and break ‘em down a bit. I am not spending time talking about things we already know.

1. Manning: 40+ TD. All weapons back for the most part. OL will pass protect.

2. Culpepper: I don’t like him to come anywhere close to his gaudy numbers last season. Overpriced in the 2nd round

3. McNabb: 30 TD is very doable again for him. I have gotten him in the 5th rounds of dynasty leagues, but I think that had more to do with the TO situation.

4. Bulger: Has all the weapons. Will need to toss 30 TD to justify this pick/rank.

5. Collins: OK, now here is where I start to get fidgety. KC has never thrown for the amount of TD that he will need to in order to justify this pick. Norv’s best year as a coach was in ’98 I think when Brad Johnson tossed 24 TD for the Skins. KC will have to put up career numbers and he might in order to grab him here. I see some moderate risk with him as your #1.

6. Trent Green: Will not throw for as many yards with Priest running the ball and LJ running the ball. I see KC going on long drives to keep their newly vamped defense fresh and I think Green could be a candidate to suffer a mild drop.

7. Michael Vick: Feast or famine

8. Brett Favre: Good safe pick. 25+ TD for sure.

9. Aaron Brooks: Has been an awful QB really. Maybe a FF decent QB but an awful NFL QB the past 2+ years. Ever since ge moaned about not making enough money, than got the money, than has not produced wins. The Saints are going to be more of a power running team. Everyone banks that they can grab Brooks in the 9th round…gonna be disappointed if this is the best you have every Sunday.

10. Tom Brady: Solid. Has upside because the Pats will not be as good defensively. Brady is far better talent wise than Troy Aikman who he draws comparisons to. He can throw the long ball with precision…I like him as an outside top5 QB this year.

11. Matt Hasselbeck: Don’t care what he did last season(well I do a little), he is under center for a high octane offense. OK, they run the ball a lot, but he gets much better defenses to throw against because you know who is running the ball behind him. He has a topflight WR in DJax…could easily surpass this ranking. Would be in top5 if he duplicated his season from 2 years ago. Great value IMO. I snagged him in round 9 of a dynasty draft even after I grabbed McNabb in the 5th round…I feel very set at QB.

12. Jake Plummer: I am more comfortable with him here than at #6 or #7 like on some sites out there. I don’t think Plummer will need to throw as much with Anderson/Bell getting a lot more rushing yds. I see him as average and again would not want to wheel him out as the starter every week. Throws too many Interceptions.

Now That’s the 1st 12…I think half of them are somewhat risky picks…hoever you can cover a risky pick by getting a QB in #13-24 that will help smooth out any rough waters.

13. Carson Palmer: At least 1 year away from being the 250-300 yard 2 TD per game passer that many are trying to think will happen this year. I see a lot of risk here. Bad to couple him another risky pick in the first 12. Vick/Palmer combo would give me gas on Saturday Nights and that’s just not good with the Mrs.

14. Drew Brees: I know he threw 27 TD last season but I gotta see it again. I am not sold on him. Moderate risk here.

15. Steve McNair: Will miss at least 3-4 games. I’m OK with McNair but get Volek as your QB3 in the later rounds. That kid should be starting somewhere.

16. Byron Leftwich: hot and cold. Hard to figure when he will be hot on Sundays. Not a lot of consistency although I still like him longterm.

17. Jake Delhomme: Has Smith, Gardner, and Colbert to zip it around to. I hope their backfield is in shambles again and Delhomme is asked to pass it all over the place. He’s fine in this slot and a lot safer than the picks above him.

18. David Carr: Just not asked to do enough. I disagree with Chase as this being a good QBBC with Brees. Not enough throws to rely on them.

19. Chad Pennington: A walking medical report…no thanks.

20. Kyle Boller: I didn’t make these rankings up. No thanks, looks just as bad as last year right now.

21. Joey Harrington: If the preseason is a pre-cursor than I think he has some awesome value. He is being taken very late in drafts, I love his chances this season. Garcia is only pushing him and he has elevated his game. Go Joey Go! I think FBG would like to move him up further but at this pricepoint sort of speak he is tremendous value.

22. Brian Griese: Another QB that is about 10 slots too low. Can you imagine Gruden not throwing the ball around? Griese will throw for 3,600+ yds and at least 25 TD…where does that put him on your boards? Not here, I assure you. Forget about the Denver debacle, Gruden has his man and they are going to do some damage this year.

23. Ben Rothlisberger: Faded over his last 1/3 of the season including playoffs. Excited to see what he can do this year but would hate to rely on him every week.

24. Eli Manning: Injury is cause for concern.

See how quick the QB dry up. Delhomme, Harrington, and Griese are the best of the middle 12 IMO. They have a lot of upside and wepoms at their disposal. I know people are going to argue Palmer over a couple of them…I disagree this season.

Bottom 8

25. Alex Smith/Tim Rattay: I like Rattay right now to crack the top20 for the season, but I don’t think he will play once the Niners are 2-6.

26. Patrick Ramsey: Didn’t like Gibbs system last year, not real excited about this year either.

27. Kurt Warner: Has a chance to put up numbers. Makes an excellent QB3…might be a QB2 for most teams by the middle of the season.

28. Drew Bledsoe: No

29. J.P.Losman: No

30. Trent Dilfer: No

31. Gus Frerotte: No

32. Chad Hutch/J.Blake: No no no.

Manning, McNabb, Bulger, Favre, Brady, Hasselbeck, Delhomme, Griese, Harrington. I see all those guys either being super successful or having a lot of upside compared to where they are being drafted.

Thoughts and criticisms, fire away.

 

[Bloom]

mcnair will miss 3-4 games? history suggests otherwise. he's only missed more than 2 games twice in his career. he will show up on the injury report 3-4 weeks (or more), but im not sure about missing games.KC will justify the pick as long as the line gives him time.green's yards may regress to mean (4Kish) but his TDs are always a solid 25 or so. a lock to finish top 8.im worried about vick as it looks like his WR corps is still a mess. not much to be had in the way of downfield passing in that offense. stay away in 6 Pts per pass td leagues.brooks may also end up a disappointment if the saints wise up and run deuce into the ground.i like where you have favre adn brady.hasselbeck is 11th at worst - on a points per game basis, he's top 10. agreed on the value there.plummer can still put up numbers when then running game is clicking - but his play is sooo erratic. agreed that he doesnt deserve a top 7 rating.palmer and leftwich i see pretty close. both have big upside. jax's new offense will give the gunslinger leftwich a chance to light it up. both were hitting their stride before suffering injuries last year.Brees is like the Brady of the second tier, not much upside, but a solid week to week contributor.delhomme had some real nice games when the running game was doign well with goings at the helm. he should be close to top 10. i think you have him 4 slots below where he should be.pennington, harrington, and griese should be above carr and boller.warner, frerotte, and bledsoe are not as terrible as you make them out to be.i would rate losman equal to boller, and put dilfer, losman and the 3 i mentioned above ahead of ramsey.agreed that you should avoid chicago QB at all costs.

 

[gman8343]

12 quality starters IMO, with several others who could produce starter #s.

 

[Dieselfrog]

Nice analysis. I like your comments regarding Delhomme and Griese. I think both present some very nice value for those that like to take their QB in the later rounds. I think Palmer will have a good year but i don't think he will perform well vs his ADP. I've seen him go in the second and third rounds and i'm not sure it can be justified.I see Bulger having a huge year. He has a real RB in the mix with SJacks taking over and still has Faulk in the mix to dump off too. Add an extremely strong WR core with the fact their coach is pass-happy and I think Bulger will out play his ADP considerablyJ.P.Losman - This guy is interesting. I think he could end as one of the top 20 QBs by the end of the year. He seems to be picking things up very well in Buff and has a talented team of players around him. The first few games all he'll need to do is hand off to Willis but by week 5 he should be finding Moulds and Evans regularly. Don't get me wrong, he won't be winning games for your fantasy squad, but i do think he'll significantly out play his ADP and ranking.Edit: made my Losman comment a little more clear.

 

[Banger]

Good post. Agree with most of the commentary as well as the value picks. I think Favre is going to be a monster this year. He's looked great in his preseason appearances, got all his weapons back, is in good shape and has the worst defense the league. He will pass-pass-pass every 2nd half of every game this year. Ya, he'll throw some picks but will throw 30+ td's and 4000+ yards. Was able to grab he and Hass in my main money league and am pretty excited at both of their prospects this year.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Brady is not "FAR BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

 

[Gambino]

Brady is not "FAR BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

Sure he is, Aikman is like 38 years old or something.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

mcnair will miss 3-4 games? history suggests otherwise. he's only missed more than 2 games twice in his career. he will show up on the injury report 3-4 weeks (or more), but im not sure about missing games.

KC will justify the pick as long as the line gives him time.

green's yards may regress to mean (4Kish) but his TDs are always a solid 25 or so. a lock to finish top 8.

im worried about vick as it looks like his WR corps is still a mess. not much to be had in the way of downfield passing in that offense. stay away in 6 Pts per pass td leagues.

brooks may also end up a disappointment if the saints wise up and run deuce into the ground.

i like where you have favre adn brady.

hasselbeck is 11th at worst - on a points per game basis, he's top 10. agreed on the value there.

plummer can still put up numbers when then running game is clicking - but his play is sooo erratic. agreed that he doesnt deserve a top 7 rating.

palmer and leftwich i see pretty close. both have big upside. jax's new offense will give the gunslinger leftwich a chance to light it up. both were hitting their stride before suffering injuries last year.

Brees is like the Brady of the second tier, not much upside, but a solid week to week contributor.

delhomme had some real nice games when the running game was doign well with goings at the helm. he should be close to top 10. i think you have him 4 slots below where he should be.

pennington, harrington, and griese should be above carr and boller.

warner, frerotte, and bledsoe are not as terrible as you make them out to be.

i would rate losman equal to boller, and put dilfer, losman and the 3 i mentioned above ahead of ramsey.

agreed that you should avoid chicago QB at all costs.

Hey Bloom, thanks as always. Just so you're clear...I didn't rank these QBs, I merely took the last FBG rank projection and put them in this.

 

[packersfan]

Was able to grab he and Hass in my main money league and am pretty excited at both of their prospects this year.

That's outstanding depth. Both of those guys are strong QB1 options in my opinion. You should look to move one of them as the season goes on if you need some help at RB or WR. Very nice QB combo.

 

[David Yudkin]

The one thing that may have been overlooked is that you can pair up some of these guys and still do ok without breaking the bank.IMO, QB in particular is a position where you either take someone very early or you should wait. There's the top tier that's leaps and bounds better than the rest, a very small second tier that is not dramatically better than the third tier, and that third tier where many players are similar in their projections.So I normally pass on many QB and then normally take 3 guys that are: 1) botton of the Top 12, 2) around Top 15, 3) somewhere around Top 20 or so with upside. I could get Palmer, Delhomme, and McNair and not bat an eyelash. The options then become QBBC or hope someone emerges into an every week starter. At that point in the draft, people are drafting backup RB that need an injury to someone to get a chance, WR that are a dime a dozen, middle of the road TE, or top of the food chain DEF or PK.In recent memory, I have done this many times and at least one guy turns into a decent option. Last year I ended up with Delhomme, Brees, and Collins and did fine. Sometimes they don't look great, but they get the job done.

 

[Mik789fl]

Brady is not "FAR BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

Agreed

Brady is "MUCH BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Brady is not "FAR BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

Sure he is, Aikman is like 38 years old or something.

 

[red]

couple of quick points:brees schedule is a lot tougher this year vs. last yearplummer is always good for a couple or more rushing TDs. if you're not penalized for INT, then i think he's good value.i agree with harrington as an excellent value pick. he is an outstanding QB#2 with upside of top 12 (i.e. weekly starter material) given his weapons.i'm staying away from brooks. the emphasis on the run and his overall lackluster football play in recent years worries me.i'm not confident in the CAR rushing game (just too injury riddled) and delhomme is pass happy with a VERY solid WR corpi don't think a team can go wrong with any of the following QBs as their weekly starters:manningcpeppmcnabbfavrebulgerhassgreenplummerbradycollinsdelhommethat's 11 QBs. IMO still OK to grab one late. priest, LT, SA can carry you to the superbowl without a top 3 QB (i've done it 3 years running)...

 

[Bloom]

Hey Bloom, thanks as always. Just so you're clear...I didn't rank these QBs, I merely took the last FBG rank projection and put them in this.

my spectacular reading comprehension skills on display again.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Brady is not "FAR BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

Thanks.I disagree wholeheartedly. The Brady to Branch bombs are a thing of beauty. I think if they ever take the reigns off Brady and ask him to shoulder the load he can do it. Aikman could not...that's the difference and Brady doesn't have a Michael Irvin or Jay Novacek to throw to either.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Brady is not "FAR BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

Agreed

Brady is "MUCH BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

Kids (from Boston) these days...

 

[packersfan]

Brady is not "FAR BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

Thanks.I disagree wholeheartedly. The Brady to Branch bombs are a thing of beauty. I think if they ever take the reigns off Brady and ask hi to shoulder the load he can do it. Aikman could not...that's the difference and Brady doesn't have a Michael Irvin or Jay Novacek to throw to either.

Aikman to Alvin Harper worked for more than a few bombs back in the day.Just ask the Packers.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The one thing that may have been overlooked is that you can pair up some of these guys and still do ok without breaking the bank.

IMO, QB in particular is a position where you either take someone very early or you should wait. There's the top tier that's leaps and bounds better than the rest, a very small second tier that is not dramatically better than the third tier, and that third tier where many players are similar in their projections.

So I normally pass on many QB and then normally take 3 guys that are: 1) botton of the Top 12, 2) around Top 15, 3) somewhere around Top 20 or so with upside. I could get Palmer, Delhomme, and McNair and not bat an eyelash. The options then become QBBC or hope someone emerges into an every week starter. At that point in the draft, people are drafting backup RB that need an injury to someone to get a chance, WR that are a dime a dozen, middle of the road TE, or top of the food chain DEF or PK.

In recent memory, I have done this many times and at least one guy turns into a decent option. Last year I ended up with Delhomme, Brees, and Collins and did fine. Sometimes they don't look great, but they get the job done.

You bring up some good points Yudkin but not all top20 QB according to "Projections" will finish in the top10...it's a dilema you run into.

 

[AB in DC]

I like your take on Griese. I had been concerned that he would be benched very quickly if he struggled, just like Brad Johnson was, but with Chris Simms apparently being demoted, there's no heir apparent waiting on the sideline.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Brady is not "FAR BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

Aikman = overrated

How many times did he throw 20 TDs? 3500+ yards? Brady has done that 3 years in a row and counting.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Guys I likeelhomme McNair (people are drooling over Favre, yet this situation is very similar, only with VALUE)Bulger (the stars are aligned) Griese (at his ADP)Harrington (yes, it's true)Carr (should improve)

 

[Bloom]

im also diggin harrington at his ADP. i would think the detroit passing game will be top 20 with a healthy rogers and roy starting to come into his own. you can probably get harrington in the 11th or 12th and pair him with garcia a few rounds later, and end up with a top QB 20 between the two of them.

 

[Joe Bryant]

MOP. Stuff like this is what makes this board cool.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

BTW, I keep saying it but I'm loving Harrington / Garcia this year.Loving them.J

 

[Ministry of Pain]

1 Culpepper,Daunte 27.12

2 Manning,Peyton 26.12

3 McNabb,Donovan 23.35

4 Bulger,Marc 21.10

5 Green,Trent 20.59

6 Plummer,Jake 20.01

7 Volek,Billy 19.73

8 Favre,Brett 19.46

9 Delhomme,Jake 19.30

10 Brooks,Aaron 18.94

11 Brees,Drew 18.91

12 Hasselbeck,Matt 18.44

13 Griese,Brian 18.28



14 Vick,Michael 17.89

15 Brady,Tom 17.86

16 Collins,Kerry 17.34

17 Flutie,Doug 16.90

18 Carr,David 16.11

19 Rattay,Tim 16.03

20 Pennington,Chad 15.97

21 Leftwich,Byron 15.96

22 Palmer,Carson 14.99

23 Holcomb,Kelly 14.93

24 Roethlisberger,Ben 14.91

I think the tiers from last season show that it's not just a 1-2-3 tier system. I went to 24 because QB1 and QB2 are both important in 12 team leagues. You gonna tell me that the Kerry Collins/Byron Leftwich combo was better than the Plummer Brooks combo? I use about 2 points per week to seperate tiers.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Brady is not "FAR BETTER" than Troy Aikman.

Aikman = overrated

How many times did he throw 20 TDs? 3500+ yards? Brady has done that 3 years in a row and counting.

Ridiculous, to use selective statistics in evaluationg great QB's. The situations are so different, there is no way to make that a truly effective gauge. Aikman, and I hate UCLA and all, was a great QB. He didn't need to throw as much as Brady. When he did, it was money. Would I start a team with him over Brady? Nah...but, he wasn't "FAR BETTER". Enough with the exaggerations.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think the point you started to bring up in the subject header is getting lost here in the discussion though.Are you guys saying the QB field is not deep?J

 

[lod01]

Vick at 7......... That pile of trash never even makes my draft board.

 

[David Yudkin]

The one thing that may have been overlooked is that you can pair up some of these guys and still do ok without breaking the bank.

IMO, QB in particular is a position where you either take someone very early or you should wait.  There's the top tier that's leaps and bounds better than the rest, a very small second tier that is not dramatically better than the third tier, and that third tier where many players are similar in their projections.

So I normally pass on many QB and then normally take 3 guys that are: 1) botton of the Top 12, 2) around Top 15, 3) somewhere around Top 20 or so with upside.  I could get Palmer, Delhomme, and McNair and not bat an eyelash.  The options then become QBBC or hope someone emerges into an every week starter.  At that point in the draft, people are drafting backup RB that need an injury to someone to get a chance, WR that are a dime a dozen, middle of the road TE, or top of the food chain DEF or PK.

In recent memory, I have done this many times and at least one guy turns into a decent option.  Last year I ended up with Delhomme, Brees, and Collins and did fine.  Sometimes they don't look great, but they get the job done.

You bring up some good points Yudkin but not all top20 QB according to "Projections" will finish in the top10...it's a dilema you run into.

Of the guys you had listed, some combination of McNair, Delhomme, Harrington, and as late picks like Warner or Frerotte will get you where you need to go. You obviously can't draft that many QB, but these guys will all do well enough to make waiting on them a decent strategy.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think the point you started to bring up in the subject header is getting lost here in the discussion though.

Are you guys saying the QB field is not deep?

J

Yes Joe, I am saying that although there are a lot of candidates to have good seasons, history will tell us that there will be many people that suffer during the season.Hasselbeck finished 11th last season and was a major disappointment for msot owners...finished in the top12 and I bet we wouldn't have a ton of people that rode him into the FF Bowl...not saying there weren't any.

Look if you got Manning in the 2nd last season you got a steal. We want to identify top10 QB and than figure out where we need to grab them. I see Griese and Harrington making a big push to get into the top10 this season as crazy as that seems. The Favre/Griese combos look a lot better to me than trying to toggle Brees and Carr, or Palmer and McNair all season. people are confusing NFL play and leadership with raw FF points I think.

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

BTW, I keep saying it but I'm loving Harrington / Garcia this year.

Loving them.

J

I too have some man love for the Harrington/Garcia combo, but I'm starting to question whether or not the Garcia part is worth a draft pick. By all accounts he has been awful and Joey has solidified his starting spot.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Last year I ended up with Delhomme, Brees, and Collins and did fine. Sometimes they don't look great, but they get the job done.

Well put. The problem that I usually run into is rostering the a tandem of like-skilled QBs and then the ensuing eating-ice-cream-too-quick-headache of trying to figure out which one to start on a weekly basis.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The one thing that may have been overlooked is that you can pair up some of these guys and still do ok without breaking the bank.

IMO, QB in particular is a position where you either take someone very early or you should wait.  There's the top tier that's leaps and bounds better than the rest, a very small second tier that is not dramatically better than the third tier, and that third tier where many players are similar in their projections.

So I normally pass on many QB and then normally take 3 guys that are: 1) botton of the Top 12, 2) around Top 15, 3) somewhere around Top 20 or so with upside.  I could get Palmer, Delhomme, and McNair and not bat an eyelash.  The options then become QBBC or hope someone emerges into an every week starter.  At that point in the draft, people are drafting backup RB that need an injury to someone to get a chance, WR that are a dime a dozen, middle of the road TE, or top of the food chain DEF or PK.

In recent memory, I have done this many times and at least one guy turns into a decent option.  Last year I ended up with Delhomme, Brees, and Collins and did fine.  Sometimes they don't look great, but they get the job done.

You bring up some good points Yudkin but not all top20 QB according to "Projections" will finish in the top10...it's a dilema you run into.

Of the guys you had listed, some combination of McNair, Delhomme, Harrington, and as late picks like Warner or Frerotte will get you where you need to go. You obviously can't draft that many QB, but these guys will all do well enough to make waiting on them a decent strategy.

OK, let's flash back to MOP 3 seasons ago. I had Vick and Grbac? I think I had him the year he went to Baltimore...people were sure he would do fine. A Delhomme type QB/season.I could never get the right combo to work all season, I suffered at QB, had great RB/WR though and I suffered come playoff time.

You can take QB late, you're right, but you gotta pick the right ones...you can't just have the guy that finishes #15 or #19 for the season and call it a day...you will lose a lot in the way of point on Sundays when you square off and guys go off at QB for other teams.

It's not like you're guy scores 15 every week. He might score 20 than go 10,10,15...not good.

Meanwhile the QB at #5 in points has 20 on a bad week

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think the point you started to bring up in the subject header is getting lost here in the discussion though.

Are you guys saying the QB field is not deep?

J

Yes Joe, I am saying that although there are a lot of candidates to have good seasons, history will tell us that there will be many people that suffer during the season.Hasselbeck finished 11th last season and was a major disappointment for msot owners...finished in the top12 and I bet we wouldn't have a ton of people that rode him into the FF Bowl...not saying there weren't any.

Look if you got Manning in the 2nd last season you got a steal. We want to identify top10 QB and than figure out where we need to grab them. I see Griese and Harrington making a big push to get into the top10 this season as crazy as that seems. The Favre/Griese combos look a lot better to me than trying to toggle Brees and Carr, or Palmer and McNair all season. people are confusing NFL play and leadership with raw FF points I think.

Hi MOP,I'm agreeing with you. I don't think that's crazy at all. But I think that actually reinforces the point that I think you can get great value with guys like Harrington/Garcia late that let you get great production early.

Perception of value and real value for QBs is more skewed I think than for any other position. That's the real root cause I think.

Good thread.

J

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I think the point you started to bring up in the subject header is getting lost here in the discussion though.

Are you guys saying the QB field is not deep?

J

I think it is pretty deep. Also, I think there's a pretty big variation with regard to one owner's 5-10 ranking and another owners.For example: MOP has Vick at #7 and Brooks at #9 and I'd rather have Brees/Delhomme/Palmer/Hasselback in front of both of those two.

 

[Joe Bryant]

BTW, I keep saying it but I'm loving Harrington / Garcia this year.

Loving them.

J

I too have some man love for the Harrington/Garcia combo, but I'm starting to question whether or not the Garcia part is worth a draft pick. By all accounts he has been awful and Joey has solidified his starting spot.

Hi skins,I agree. I think he really may have lost it. Still though, I'm not confident in Harrington to go without Garcia completely. I could put up decent numbers throwing the ball to those guys.

J

 

[red]

BTW, I keep saying it but I'm loving Harrington / Garcia this year.

Loving them.

J

I too have some man love for the Harrington/Garcia combo, but I'm starting to question whether or not the Garcia part is worth a draft pick. By all accounts he has been awful and Joey has solidified his starting spot.

give garcia's recent performance (preseason and last year), it may not even be worth handcuffing harrington. just get a suitable #2 if harrington's your starter (i.e. griese, warner, etc.)

 

[BoltBacker]

12 quality starters IMO, with several others who could produce starter #s.

15 by my count.I agree with your Favre, Brady, Delhomme and Griese picks ministry of pain. Which just leads me to think there are even more quality qb's than most people think.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think the point you started to bring up in the subject header is getting lost here in the discussion though.

Are you guys saying the QB field is not deep?

J

I think it is pretty deep. Also, I think there's a pretty big variation with regard to one owner's 5-10 ranking and another owners.For example: MOP has Vick at #7 and Brooks at #9 and I'd rather have Brees/Delhomme/Palmer/Hasselback in front of both of those two.

FBG ranked these guys fellows. I haven't relesed an official QB tier thread although I am sure you can piece a lot of it together form this thread.

 

[packersfan]

BTW, I keep saying it but I'm loving Harrington / Garcia this year.

Loving them.

J

I too have some man love for the Harrington/Garcia combo, but I'm starting to question whether or not the Garcia part is worth a draft pick. By all accounts he has been awful and Joey has solidified his starting spot.

Hi skins,I agree. I think he really may have lost it. Still though, I'm not confident in Harrington to go without Garcia completely. I could put up decent numbers throwing the ball to those guys.

J

You might wanna contact the Bears, Joe. They need a QB real bad. Even a boat-lovin QB with no NFL experience would be an upgrade over Chad Hutchinson.

 

[PRS Guy]

9. Aaron Brooks: Has been an awful QB really. Maybe a FF decent QB but an awful NFL QB the past 2+ years. Ever since ge moaned about not making enough money, than got the money, than has not produced wins. The Saints are going to be more of a power running team. Everyone banks that they can grab Brooks in the 9th round…gonna be disappointed if this is the best you have every Sunday.

Thoughts and criticisms, fire away.

I've never owned Brooks, and may never, but he's finished in the top 8 QB's for the past 4 seasons. Not sure what you mean about being disappointed, I'll take that if I can get it late.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

BTW, I keep saying it but I'm loving Harrington / Garcia this year.

Loving them.

J

I too have some man love for the Harrington/Garcia combo, but I'm starting to question whether or not the Garcia part is worth a draft pick. By all accounts he has been awful and Joey has solidified his starting spot.

Hi skins,I agree. I think he really may have lost it. Still though, I'm not confident in Harrington to go without Garcia completely. I could put up decent numbers throwing the ball to those guys.

J

Agreed. Total handcuff, but for where you draft Garcia, even if he just sits on your bench all season so be it.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I think the point you started to bring up in the subject header is getting lost here in the discussion though.

Are you guys saying the QB field is not deep?

J

I think it is pretty deep. Also, I think there's a pretty big variation with regard to one owner's 5-10 ranking and another owners.For example: MOP has Vick at #7 and Brooks at #9 and I'd rather have Brees/Delhomme/Palmer/Hasselback in front of both of those two.

FBG ranked these guys fellows. I haven't relesed an official QB tier thread although I am sure you can piece a lot of it together form this thread.

My bad. I just assumed these were your rankings. Sorry. Either way I think the point is still valid.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

9. Aaron Brooks: Has been an awful QB really. Maybe a FF decent QB but an awful NFL QB the past 2+ years. Ever since ge moaned about not making enough money, than got the money, than has not produced wins. The Saints are going to be more of a power running team. Everyone banks that they can grab Brooks in the 9th round…gonna be disappointed if this is the best you have every Sunday.

Thoughts and criticisms, fire away.

I've never owned Brooks, and may never, but he's finished in the top 8 QB's for the past 4 seasons. Not sure what you mean about being disappointed, I'll take that if I can get it late.

You're right, from A FF expectation level he has been a top10 guy although never a top5. But the disappoinment is with his coaches/front office. They want to pound the football this year with what they think is the strength of their backfield. I am saying that Brooks will be a major disappointment this season. Even in the preseason games I watch he still misses the broadside of the barns.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Please read post #25. I think that's the clearest I can make it.

If you had a top6 QB last season you had a major edge on guys that were toggling with QB in that 15-22 crowd.

A high ranking QB might have games like 30, 25, 21, 28, 26, 18

A guy in that middle that is avg 17 looks more like 20, 15, 14, 18, 22, 12

There is a much bigger gap than you are lead to believe.

You might only be 5 points on average behind bu the reality is you could easily be 10 points behind the 8 ball on many Sundays. Than you add in that some teams own 2 of those top tier QB by the fact they got a little lucky and you are in the hole.

 

[joffer]

9. Aaron Brooks: Has been an awful QB really. Maybe a FF decent QB but an awful NFL QB the past 2+ years. Ever since ge moaned about not making enough money, than got the money, than has not produced wins. The Saints are going to be more of a power running team. Everyone banks that they can grab Brooks in the 9th round…gonna be disappointed if this is the best you have every Sunday.

Thoughts and criticisms, fire away.

I've never owned Brooks, and may never, but he's finished in the top 8 QB's for the past 4 seasons. Not sure what you mean about being disappointed, I'll take that if I can get it late.

You're right, from A FF expectation level he has been a top10 guy although never a top5. But the disappoinment is with his coaches/front office. They want to pound the football this year with what they think is the strength of their backfield. I am saying that Brooks will be a major disappointment this season. Even in the preseason games I watch he still misses the broadside of the barns.

always has. he'll still finish 6th-9th. The Saints saying they want to re-commit to the running game is not sufficient enough reason to drop Brooks any further than he's finished the last 4 years. We hear that every pre-season. When they fall behind 14-0 in the first quarter, it always changes in a hurry.

 

[David Yudkin]

The one thing that may have been overlooked is that you can pair up some of these guys and still do ok without breaking the bank.

IMO, QB in particular is a position where you either take someone very early or you should wait.  There's the top tier that's leaps and bounds better than the rest, a very small second tier that is not dramatically better than the third tier, and that third tier where many players are similar in their projections.

So I normally pass on many QB and then normally take 3 guys that are: 1) botton of the Top 12, 2) around Top 15, 3) somewhere around Top 20 or so with upside.  I could get Palmer, Delhomme, and McNair and not bat an eyelash.  The options then become QBBC or hope someone emerges into an every week starter.  At that point in the draft, people are drafting backup RB that need an injury to someone to get a chance, WR that are a dime a dozen, middle of the road TE, or top of the food chain DEF or PK.

In recent memory, I have done this many times and at least one guy turns into a decent option.  Last year I ended up with Delhomme, Brees, and Collins and did fine.  Sometimes they don't look great, but they get the job done.

You bring up some good points Yudkin but not all top20 QB according to "Projections" will finish in the top10...it's a dilema you run into.

Of the guys you had listed, some combination of McNair, Delhomme, Harrington, and as late picks like Warner or Frerotte will get you where you need to go. You obviously can't draft that many QB, but these guys will all do well enough to make waiting on them a decent strategy.

OK, let's flash back to MOP 3 seasons ago. I had Vick and Grbac? I think I had him the year he went to Baltimore...people were sure he would do fine. A Delhomme type QB/season.I could never get the right combo to work all season, I suffered at QB, had great RB/WR though and I suffered come playoff time.

You can take QB late, you're right, but you gotta pick the right ones...you can't just have the guy that finishes #15 or #19 for the season and call it a day...you will lose a lot in the way of point on Sundays when you square off and guys go off at QB for other teams.

It's not like you're guy scores 15 every week. He might score 20 than go 10,10,15...not good.

Meanwhile the QB at #5 in points has 20 on a bad week

Joe pays me big money to not take the dregs and come up with the gems. In reality, I have fared pretty well identifying who the undervalued QB will be. Three or so years ago I grabbed Vick and Green when they were not yet established and rode them all year (both Top 6 IIRC). While it technically gets labelled as a QBBC, my hope is to get someone that does well all the time and as a last resort start playing matchups.

The object is to comple the best team that scores the most points.

In a thread last night on Manning, I think we concluded that even with a huge advantage in scoring from Manning it might not be be the best thing for your team to take him early in the first even at 6 pts/TD. The example I used was a 1st round pick on Alexander and a 6th round pick on Favre pretty much equaled the total of a first round pick on Manning and a 2nd round pick on Jordan.

The secret to winning at this game is figuring out how to align your puzzle pieces to max out scoring and value. If you do a good enough job stockpiling talent, you may not need Superman at QB to win. And you can still hit on QB later on that are productive, and that's just a bonus.

I would not be adverse to going RB-RB-RB-WR-WR-WR-TE-QB-QB-QB and walking away thinking I had a great team. I doubt I would draft in quite that pattern, but it cetainly has merit even in that order. (Almost all my leagues have a PPR scoring system, so I have not really loaded up early on RB this year as the vlaue is better at WR.)

 

[Verbal Kint]

couple of quick points:i agree with harrington as an excellent value pick. he is an outstanding QB#2 with upside of top 12 (i.e. weekly starter material) given his weapons.i'm staying away from brooks. the emphasis on the run and his overall lackluster football play in recent years worries me.

I actually think the emphasis on the run will help Brooks this year. (Admittedly I'm a Brooks owner) I also just nabbed Harrington off waivers (strangely Garcia was drafted and Harrington was not )

 

[Ministry of Pain]

9. Aaron Brooks: Has been an awful QB really. Maybe a FF decent QB but an awful NFL QB the past 2+ years. Ever since ge moaned about not making enough money, than got the money, than has not produced wins. The Saints are going to be more of a power running team. Everyone banks that they can grab Brooks in the 9th round…gonna be disappointed if this is the best you have every Sunday.

Thoughts and criticisms, fire away.

I've never owned Brooks, and may never, but he's finished in the top 8 QB's for the past 4 seasons. Not sure what you mean about being disappointed, I'll take that if I can get it late.

You're right, from A FF expectation level he has been a top10 guy although never a top5. But the disappoinment is with his coaches/front office. They want to pound the football this year with what they think is the strength of their backfield. I am saying that Brooks will be a major disappointment this season. Even in the preseason games I watch he still misses the broadside of the barns.

always has. he'll still finish 6th-9th. The Saints saying they want to re-commit to the running game is not sufficient enough reason to drop Brooks any further than he's finished the last 4 years. We hear that every pre-season. When they fall behind 14-0 in the first quarter, it always changes in a hurry.

I understand it gets drilled into our heads to take this guy as the last of the top12 every season...I'm asking you to look beyond. He has gone from 27...24...21 last season in passing TD. He had some rush TD that I didn't count. He has a 56% career completion percentage...I didn't make that up.He's a prime candidate to drop a bit. He is not a great NFL QB...he's just not. The Saints will run the ball more...Deuce ran it 20 times in 3 quarters against the dreaded Pats.

I would look elsewhere for starting QB this season.

 

[Dieselfrog]

The one thing that may have been overlooked is that you can pair up some of these guys and still do ok without breaking the bank.

IMO, QB in particular is a position where you either take someone very early or you should wait. There's the top tier that's leaps and bounds better than the rest, a very small second tier that is not dramatically better than the third tier, and that third tier where many players are similar in their projections.

So I normally pass on many QB and then normally take 3 guys that are: 1) botton of the Top 12, 2) around Top 15, 3) somewhere around Top 20 or so with upside. I could get Palmer, Delhomme, and McNair and not bat an eyelash. The options then become QBBC or hope someone emerges into an every week starter. At that point in the draft, people are drafting backup RB that need an injury to someone to get a chance, WR that are a dime a dozen, middle of the road TE, or top of the food chain DEF or PK.

In recent memory, I have done this many times and at least one guy turns into a decent option. Last year I ended up with Delhomme, Brees, and Collins and did fine. Sometimes they don't look great, but they get the job done.

You bring up some good points Yudkin but not all top20 QB according to "Projections" will finish in the top10...it's a dilema you run into.

Of the guys you had listed, some combination of McNair, Delhomme, Harrington, and as late picks like Warner or Frerotte will get you where you need to go. You obviously can't draft that many QB, but these guys will all do well enough to make waiting on them a decent strategy.

OK, let's flash back to MOP 3 seasons ago. I had Vick and Grbac? I think I had him the year he went to Baltimore...people were sure he would do fine. A Delhomme type QB/season.I could never get the right combo to work all season, I suffered at QB, had great RB/WR though and I suffered come playoff time.

You can take QB late, you're right, but you gotta pick the right ones...you can't just have the guy that finishes #15 or #19 for the season and call it a day...you will lose a lot in the way of point on Sundays when you square off and guys go off at QB for other teams.

It's not like you're guy scores 15 every week. He might score 20 than go 10,10,15...not good.

Meanwhile the QB at #5 in points has 20 on a bad week

Joe pays me big money to not take the dregs and come up with the gems. In reality, I have fared pretty well identifying who the undervalued QB will be. Three or so years ago I grabbed Vick and Green when they were not yet established and rode them all year (both Top 6 IIRC). While it technically gets labelled as a QBBC, my hope is to get someone that does well all the time and as a last resort start playing matchups.

The object is to comple the best team that scores the most points.

In a thread last night on Manning, I think we concluded that even with a huge advantage in scoring from Manning it might not be be the best thing for your team to take him early in the first even at 6 pts/TD. The example I used was a 1st round pick on Alexander and a 6th round pick on Favre pretty much equaled the total of a first round pick on Manning and a 2nd round pick on Jordan.

The secret to winning at this game is figuring out how to align your puzzle pieces to max out scoring and value. If you do a good enough job stockpiling talent, you may not need Superman at QB to win. And you can still hit on QB later on that are productive, and that's just a bonus.

I would not be adverse to going RB-RB-RB-WR-WR-WR-TE-QB-QB-QB and walking away thinking I had a great team. I doubt I would draft in quite that pattern, but it cetainly has merit even in that order. (Almost all my leagues have a PPR scoring system, so I have not really loaded up early on RB this year as the vlaue is better at WR.)

Very good point above. I had Joey Harrington all year last year and made it to the playoffs with players like Gates, edge and Dom Davis.