Le'Veon Bell When He Returns - What Do You Expect by his 2nd week back? (1 Viewer)

[ghostguy123]

Assuming quite a few things that I do not assume, I think it would be close to a split.  They SHOULD give Conner rest if they have the opportunity cause once playoff time rolls around, bye bye Bell

 

[Football Jones]

I really doubt this will happen if Conner stays healthy - he's earned the right to remain the Steelers starting RB this year. 

I'll defer to you in this case.

I'm not sure how the Steelers typically view things, but my assumption was they would get Bell going when he's ready (for at least a RBBC).

 

[Da Guru]

Did people view Joe Montana as a lesser QB because Steve Young was great?  Did Marshall Faulk become a JAG because Edgerrin James was great?  Did Brett Favre become a game manager because Aaron Rodgers was great?

Bell is an elite RB, and other teams aren’t going to view him differently because Conner is doing well.

Seems like Conner is elite as well.  Pitt has drafted well.

 

[Dizzy]

Did people view Joe Montana as a lesser QB because Steve Young was great?  Did Marshall Faulk become a JAG because Edgerrin James was great?  Did Brett Favre become a game manager because Aaron Rodgers was great?

Bell is an elite RB, and other teams aren’t going to view him differently because Conner is doing well.

Montana and Favre were sent packing in favor of younger/better talent. Their best years were behind them and YES they were viewed as the lesser QBs at the time of departure.

Faulk was in his prime (as it turned out), but traded because he was unhappy with his contract. Not everyone thought Faulk was going to do what he did when he got to St. Louis either. That's apparent by the relatively low price the Rams had to pay to acquire a Hall of Famer.

I can't agree at all with your last sentence. Even if teams do view Bell as an elite talent... Conner's matching of Bell's production will be used in negotiations. How can it not?

 

[menobrown]

Nobody said anything about “recouping”...at least I didn’t...simply saying the next time he signs the total of the signing bonus and guaranteed money will add up to way more than 14.5 and he will have that security....you must be referring to somebody else about recouping....

Referring to you for sure but hard to nail down someone who is talking out of both sides of their mouth.

 

[menobrown]

Assuming quite a few things that I do not assume, I think it would be close to a split.  They SHOULD give Conner rest if they have the opportunity cause once playoff time rolls around, bye bye Bell

I don't think he is going to report at all but if he does zero percent chance this happens. Zero chance and I'd bet anything on earth it's zero.

 

[Bayhawks]

Montana and Favre were sent packing in favor of younger/better talent. Their best years were behind them and YES they were viewed as the lesser QBs at the time of departure.

Faulk was in his prime (as it turned out), but traded because he was unhappy with his contract. Not everyone thought Faulk was going to do what he did when he got to St. Louis either. That's apparent by the relatively low price the Rams had to pay to acquire a Hall of Famer.

I can't agree at all with your last sentence. Even if teams do view Bell as an elite talent... Conner's matching of Bell's production will be used in negotiations. How can it not?

You are talking about how one team viewed them; I’m talking about how they were viewed, in general.  Nothing Young, James or Rodgers did changed the fact that Montana, Faulk and Favre were elite players.  As to your last question, it’s because it’s not like Bell is going to be demarco Murray, just hoping for a team to give him a chance.  He will have teams (plural) trying to sign him.  A team would be stupid to say “we want you on our team, but Conner did good last year, so we are going to offer you less money.”  

He’ll have cap-rich, RB-needy teams like Houston, NYJ, Oak (not 100% sure about their cap situation), SF, Balt, Ind, etc who are after him.  Conners production this year will make Pitt value Bell less, but not those teams.

 

[msommer]

Did people view Joe Montana as a lesser QB because Steve Young was great?  Did Marshall Faulk become a JAG because Edgerrin James was great?  Did Brett Favre become a game manager because Aaron Rodgers was great?

Bell is an elite RB, and other teams aren’t going to view him differently because Conner is doing well.

Correct.

But they view him (Bell) differently on the basis of Bell's own actions. And this potentially include future actions such as signing but not playing, "pulling" a hamstring or other such antics

 

[Bayhawks]

Correct.

But they view him (Bell) differently on the basis of Bell's own actions. And this potentially include future actions such as signing but not playing, "pulling" a hamstring or other such antics

They=Steelers?

 

[msommer]

They=Steelers?

The equals next year's potential employers

 

[ghostguy123]

I don't think he is going to report at all but if he does zero percent chance this happens. Zero chance and I'd bet anything on earth it's zero.

It's a shame we likely won't get a chance to see it get to that point.  Would be a fun bet and fun arguments to follow.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Referring to you for sure but hard to nail down someone who is talking out of both sides of their mouth.

whatever dude...now you are just spouting off...please find anywhere I said anything about him trying to recoup the money he lost this year, besides saying I said nothing about recouping the money he lost this year...I said what he will get in signing bonuses plus guaranteed money money will be well north of the 14.5.....but nothing about getting back the 14.5.....I'll wait patiently....

 

[menobrown]

whatever dude...now you are just spouting off...please find anywhere I said anything about him trying to recoup the money he lost this year, besides saying I said nothing about recouping the money he lost this year...I said what he will get in signing bonuses plus guaranteed money money will be well north of the 14.5.....but nothing about getting back the 14.5.....I'll wait patiently....

It's really pretty self-explanatory.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

It's really pretty self-explanatory.

figured thats about all you would have to come back with....since you have nothing else

 

[menobrown]

figured thats about all you would have to come back with....since you have nothing else

I already quoted you in my initial post and it's pretty black and white so not sure what there is to add other then trying to explain your post to you. Only thing you are right on is you did not use the word "recoup", you suggested something worse.

 

[menobrown]

It's a shame we likely won't get a chance to see it get to that point.  Would be a fun bet and fun arguments to follow.

Well pull this post up if another player ever holds out. There will NEVER be an impending FA in the NFL who quit on his team in the playoffs. It will never happen. If it does that player will be retiring permanently.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I already quoted you in my initial post and it's pretty black and white so not sure what there is to add other then trying to explain your post to you. Only thing you are right on is you did not use the word "recoup", you suggested something worse.

You initial quote of me was me saying “the signing bonus and guarantees of his new contract will piss all over the 14.5”....which it will...said nothing about recouping the money he lost this year....so how exactly was I “talking out of both sides of my mouth”...?

 

[Dizzy]

Watching PTI last night... Tony Kornheiser (sp?) echoing previous comments posted that Bell does not need to show up at all to become a free agent and no compensation for PIT. So the six (6) games thought to be needed are not needed (apparently not even relevant).

Kornheiser was furious commenting on it as the narrative on Bell and reporting deadlines keeps changing. Seemed like he was reading through this thread. ?

 

[Bayhawks]

The equals next year's potential employers

That seems like a fairly bold statement, with nothing to base it on.  On what are you basing this idea that next year's potential employers view him differently? 

I'm fairly confident that my belief that this situation won't lead to him being viewed differently by other franchises will be born out by the fact that he will get a contract similar to what other elite RBs got this year.  If he doesn't get a contract in the same ballpark as Gurley and DJ, then I'll be happy to come back here and admit that I was wrong and other teams are viewing him differently as a result of this situation.  Are you willing to do the same when he DOES get an elite RB contract?

 

[msommer]

That seems like a fairly bold statement, with nothing to base it on.  On what are you basing this idea that next year's potential employers view him differently? 

I'm fairly confident that my belief that this situation won't lead to him being viewed differently by other franchises will be born out by the fact that he will get a contract similar to what other elite RBs got this year.  If he doesn't get a contract in the same ballpark as Gurley and DJ, then I'll be happy to come back here and admit that I was wrong and other teams are viewing him differently as a result of this situation.  Are you willing to do the same when he DOES get an elite RB contract?

Honestly, Bell isn't that interesting to me. But I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong. Has happened before. Will happen again. 

 

[Bayhawks]

Honestly, Bell isn't that interesting to me. But I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong. Has happened before. Will happen again. 

Sorry if that sounded like a challenge; it wasnt meant to be.  The idea that teams will not go after an elite player like Bell because of this contract situation is puzzling to me.  We’ve seen teams give huge contracts to players who have held out (which bell isn’t even actually doing), we’ve seen teams give second and third chances to guys who’ve committed heinous crimes, and we’ve seen teams give multiple chances to guys who have demonstrated that they can’t stay away from drugs.  Why would we think that teams are going to say “that guy wouldn’t play under a 2nd franchise tag for longer than he had to; we won’t sign him?”  That doesn’t make sense; it’s a business & NFL teams know it’s a business.  They will make smart business decisions, most of the time, and the smart business decision is to get elite players on your team.

 

[msommer]

Sorry if that sounded like a challenge; it wasnt meant to be.  The idea that teams will not go after an elite player like Bell because of this contract situation is puzzling to me.  We’ve seen teams give huge contracts to players who have held out (which bell isn’t even actually doing), we’ve seen teams give second and third chances to guys who’ve committed heinous crimes, and we’ve seen teams give multiple chances to guys who have demonstrated that they can’t stay away from drugs.  Why would we think that teams are going to say “that guy wouldn’t play under a 2nd franchise tag for longer than he had to; we won’t sign him?”  That doesn’t make sense; it’s a business & NFL teams know it’s a business.  They will make smart business decisions, most of the time, and the smart business decision is to get elite players on your team.

Part of the smart business decisions is in the crafting of the contract. IMHO teams will want to protect themselves against behaviour such as hold outs, suspensions due to stupidity (drugs) etc. In this respect Bell is hardly squeaky clean, unlike e.g. David Johnson and Todd Gurley.

Team cohesion is another factor, and the comments from the Steelers' players have not exactly been rife with supportive statements, which is something other teams will have noticed.

I think teams will be reluctant to offer too much guaranteed, but obviously, it only take one team to do something stupid. It's happened before.

 

[Bayhawks]

Part of the smart business decisions is in the crafting of the contract. IMHO teams will want to protect themselves against behaviour such as hold outs, suspensions due to stupidity (drugs) etc. In this respect Bell is hardly squeaky clean, unlike e.g. David Johnson and Todd Gurley.

Team cohesion is another factor, and the comments from the Steelers' players have not exactly been rife with supportive statements, which is something other teams will have noticed.

I think teams will be reluctant to offer too much guaranteed, but obviously, it only take one team to do something stupid. It's happened before.

Agreed, like when Pitt tried to get away with offering Bell less guaranteed money because they thought the franchise tag would force him to accept less.

When Bell is a FA, it’s not going to be one team he’s negotiating with.  IF a team tries to get cute with their offer, Bell isn’t forced to take it or get nothing.  He’ll move on to another team & get an offer that won’t have any nonsense.  For the record, I’m not referring to contract standards like in case of NFL suspensions.  If a team tried to insert some clause saying Bell couldn’t hold out; that would be laughable (especially since a hold out is already a violation of the contract & is covered in the CBA, with regards to fines).

Im not trying to be rude (& I’ve retyped this several times to try to make sure it doesn’t come across that way), but I’m not sure you are being realistic about this situation.  Not sure if you are a steeler fan & that is biasing your take, but Bell didn’t want to play for the franchise tag, so he didn’t.  If he reports not 11/13, it’s to guarantee he’ll be a FA next year.  There’s nothing shady in that regard.  He’s not under contract & hasn’t violated any part of the CBA in what he’s done.  While there have been reports that he’ll report by this date or that date, AFAIK none of them were from Bell himself (& even if they were, and he changed his mind, there’s nothing shady there either).  I agree with you that the Steelers players haven’t supported him, but that’s more reflective of them, IMO.  Another team, that IS paying him what he is worth won’t be concerned with the Steelers players not liking him, because they won’t be on his new team.

 

[msommer]

Agreed, like when Pitt tried to get away with offering Bell less guaranteed money because they thought the franchise tag would force him to accept less.

When Bell is a FA, it’s not going to be one team he’s negotiating with.  IF a team tries to get cute with their offer, Bell isn’t forced to take it or get nothing.  He’ll move on to another team & get an offer that won’t have any nonsense.  For the record, I’m not referring to contract standards like in case of NFL suspensions.  If a team tried to insert some clause saying Bell couldn’t hold out; that would be laughable (especially since a hold out is already a violation of the contract & is covered in the CBA, with regards to fines).

Im not trying to be rude (& I’ve retyped this several times to try to make sure it doesn’t come across that way), but I’m not sure you are being realistic about this situation.  Not sure if you are a steeler fan & that is biasing your take, but Bell didn’t want to play for the franchise tag, so he didn’t.  If he reports not 11/13, it’s to guarantee he’ll be a FA next year.  There’s nothing shady in that regard.  He’s not under contract & hasn’t violated any part of the CBA in what he’s done.  While there have been reports that he’ll report by this date or that date, AFAIK none of them were from Bell himself (& even if they were, and he changed his mind, there’s nothing shady there either).  I agree with you that the Steelers players haven’t supported him, but that’s more reflective of them, IMO.  Another team, that IS paying him what he is worth won’t be concerned with the Steelers players not liking him, because they won’t be on his new team.

Not a Steeler's fan at all. Fan of the business side of things (and the Titans).

The business side matters - there is a reason in most franchises the GM controls the purse strings and the contracts, not the HC

 

[Bayhawks]

Not a Steeler's fan at all. Fan of the business side of things (and the Titans).

The business side matters - there is a reason in most franchises the GM controls the purse strings and the contracts, not the HC

Yeah, the business side matters; and Bell making a business decision to not play under a 2nd franchise tag any longer than he has to won’t matter to a good GM.