Libya is imploding (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

I didn't even look at the poster who bumped this and yet as soon as I saw "Libya" I knew who it was.

SID isn't going to let this one go.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Has this place ever not been imploding?

It wasn't when I was there about 10 years ago.

The guy who drove me to the airport told me before I got out of the car, "Please tell your President that we do not like Khadaffi. We hate him. Please help us get rid of him." I like to think that there's a statue of me in some small Libyan town. The Liberator.

 

[Psychopav]

Washington (CNN)Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell takes aim at those whom he accuses of politicizing the efforts of intelligence services in his new book The Great War Of Our Times: The CIA's Fight Against Terrorism—From al Qa'ida to ISIS.
Politicians and policymakers from both parties come in for criticism, including Vice President **** Cheney, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and the Obama White House officials who helped write the talking points on Benghazi.

...

The Obama administration suffers some of Morell's disdain in Chapter 10, "Stalking Points." The chapter is largely a defense of Morell's own role in the controversy over how Obama administration talking points about the September 11, 2012 attacks on U.S. compounds in Benghazi, Libya. Morell characterizes his critics's charges as a hunt for ways to show that the Obama administration was trying to "hide the hand of al Qa'ida in the attack and thereby protect President Obama's campaign theme that he was tough on terrorism."

While fact-checking his critics, Morell also concedes mistakes by the CIA in the talking points debacle, though he insists they were made for editorial or otherwise innocent reasons (removing "Islamic" from "Islamic extremists" so as not to make a combustible situation even worse, for instance).

But he then goes on to assail the White House's treatment of the finished work product, noting that "there was something different in the White House-produced points sent to [National Security Adviser Dr. Susan] Rice's staff." Morell singles out what many in the media noted, that in the "Goals" section of the talking points, it stated: "To underscore that these protests are rooted in an Internet video and not a broader failure of policy." (Bear in mind that the 2012 election was just weeks away.)

"The White House has argued that its talking points were not about Benghazi but about the broader protests taking place in the region," Morell writes. "But that explanation does not hold water --because just one bullet point later in the 'Goals' section of the White House talking points is the following: 'To show that we will be resolute in bringing people who harm Americans to justice' -- and the only place Americans had been harmed during that period was in Benghazi."

Morell concludes that the White House was "blaming the Benghazi attack on the video -- which is not something CIA did in its talking points or in its classified analysis." Stating his belief that a bright red line should exist between those White House officials responsible for national security and those in charge of politics, and "the line about how Benghazi was not a failure rooted in broader policy seemed to me to be a political statement not a national security one." Morell also tweaks Rice for saying on a Sunday show that there had been a "substantial security presence" in Benghazi, which wasn't in either the White House or CIA talking points. ...

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/11/politics/michael-morrell-book-cia-obama-cheney/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0AMbo60ggI

Holy cow is this article poorly written.

I can't take it seriously.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So apparently the documents produced per the FOIA requests by Judicial Watch are finally coming to light.

Here is the most recent one, it's a Department of Defense memo dated September 16, 2012.

TEXT: 1. (SYNC) EXECUTIVE SUMMARY. Brigades of the Captive Omar Abdul Rahman claim ultimate responsibility for the attacks on the

U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya. The group has training locations around Libya and subscribe to AQ ideologies.

(.6.444F4 The attack on the American consulate in Benghazi was planned and executed by The Brigades of the Captive Omar Abdul Rahman (BCOAR). BCOAR is also responsible for past attacks on the Red Cross in Benghazi and the attack on the British ambassador, they have approximately 120 members. The BCOAR are connected to Ansar al Sharia katiba, commanded by Sofian AL ((GUMMA)). They are based in Dema but have a branch in Benghazi. Ansar al Sharia share the same ideology as BCOAR, but it is not thought that they were involved in the attack on the U.S. American Consulate on 11 September 2012.

(S//NF) The attack was planned ten or more days prior on approximately 01 September 2012. The intention was to attack the consulate and to kill as many Americans as possible to seek revenge for U.S. killing of Aboyahiye ((ALALIBY)) in Pakistan and in memorial of the 11 September 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center buildings. (Eri441.) The leader of BCOAR is Abdul Baset ((AZUZ)), AZUZ was sent by ((ZAWARI)) to set up Al Qacda (AQ) bases in Libya. It was stated that AZUZ was not a charismatic leader but rather just a violent radical. He is also a member of the Abu Slim Martyrs Katiba, run by Fati ((AG IB)).

(SI/NT) Within the last year AZUZ established the Al-Tawheed (Oneness of Clod) college in Derna, the establishment of this college was authorized by the Ministry of Education with the approval of the Under Secretary of the Ministry of Education, Fathi ((AL-KA'ARY)), a member of the Muslim brother hood movement and currently one of the eight presidential candidates. Al-Tawheed College is the headquarters of BCOAR and is located next to the main Derna hospital. The majority of its members are under the age of 28 with a large number between the ages of 17-21 years of age. AZT, ..1Z has managed to establish a headquarters and training facility in Dema, they train in the mountains surrounding Derna where they have large caches of weapons. Some of these caches arc disguised by feeding troughs for livestock. They have SA-7 and SA-23/4 MANPADS as well as unidentified missiles over two meters in length. They train almost every day focusing on religious lessons and scripture including three lessons a day of jihadist ideology.

(-S41k1F-) Approximately 120 men of the BCOAR train in this area and sometimes they are joined by other radical groups such as Abu Slim Martyrs Katiba, Ansar al Sharia Katiba. One of BCOAR's main planning locations is Hamza Mosque nobody with the exception of their group is allowed to pray there, everyone in Derma is aware of this. (SIINF) The most important location is Al-Sadaqa Mosque, … There is a small rectangular room, approximately 12 meters by 6 meters in the vicinity of the mosque that contains a large number of written documents. The majority of their documentation is written as the group very rarely uses e-mail, these documents contain information on all of the AQ activity in Libya.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What Sidney Blumenthal’s Memos to Hillary Clinton Said, and How They Were HandledIn 2011 and 2012, Hillary Rodham Clinton received at least 25 memos about Libya from Sidney Blumenthal, a friend and confidant who at the time was employed by the Clinton Foundation. The memos, written in the style of intelligence cables, make up about a third of the almost 900 pages of emails related to Libya that Mrs. Clinton said she kept on the personal email account she used exclusively as secretary of state. Some of Mr. Blumenthal’s memos appeared to be based on reports supplied by American contractors he was advising as they sought to do business in Libya. Mr. Blumenthal also appeared to be gathering information from anonymous Libyan and Western officials and local news media reports. What follows are descriptions of some of the memos and how they were handled by Mrs. Clinton and her aides.

Clinton Says Idea on Rebels Should Be ConsideredIn April 2011, Mr. Blumenthal sent Mrs. Clinton a memo about the rebel forces fighting the regime of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. The rebels, Mr. Blumenthal wrote, were considering hiring security contractors to train their forces. Mrs. Clinton forwarded the memo to her aide, Jake Sullivan, and said that the idea should be considered. (Pages 1-3)

In 2011 and 2012, Mrs. Clinton forwarded 18 memos to Mr. Sullivan, who in turn circulated them to senior State Department officials, including Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, who was killed in the 2012 attacks in Benghazi, and Ambassador Gene A. Cretz, who preceded him.

An Alert to Possible Terrorist Attacks in LibyaIn May 2011, Mr. Blumenthal sent Mrs. Clinton a memo reporting that affiliates of Al Qaeda in Libya were plotting attacks in revenge for the United States’ killing of Osama bin Laden. Mrs. Clinton forwarded the email to Mr. Sullivan, saying that it was “disturbing, if true.” Mr. Sullivan questioned its accuracy, but said he would share with others. (Pages 4-5)

...

A Memo Is Passed On, Despite QuestionsIn March 2012, Mrs. Clinton forwarded a memo by Mr. Blumenthal to Mr. Sullivan, saying that she was dubious about its content. Mr. Sullivan agreed, stating that Mr. Blumenthal’s report resembled “a conspiracy theory” — but still asked State Department officials to review it. (Pages 16-17)

A Warning Is Forwarded to Incoming AmbassadorIn April 2012, Mr. Blumenthal wrote to Mrs. Clinton warning about the imminent rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Libya. Mrs. Clinton forwarded the memo to Mr. Sullivan, who sent it to Mr. Stevens, the incoming United States ambassador to Libya. Mr. Stevens’ response — that the Brotherhood in fact had a relatively small following in Libya — was passed on to Mrs. Clinton. (Pages 18-24)

Clinton Suggests Sharing Information With IsraelAfter receiving an August 2012 memo from Mr. Blumenthal about how the new Libyan prime minister wanted to have a better relationship with Israel, Mrs. Clinton suggested to Mr. Sullivan that they pass the intelligence along to the Israelis. (Pages 25-27)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/us/politics/what-sidney-blumenthals-memos-to-hillary-clinton-said-and-how-they-were-handled.html

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Blumenthal blamed Benghazi attack on protesters in email to ClintonIn a memo sent to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton a day after the Sept. 11, 2012, attack in Benghazi, Libya, longtime friend Sidney Blumenthal blamed demonstrators who were protesting “The Innocence of Muslims” video on YouTube.

According to emails obtained by The New York Times and published Thursday, Clinton forwarded the email to Jake Sullivan, a top foreign policy adviser, requesting “More info.” The emails presented by the Times represent a third of the approximately 850 pages of emails from her personal account that have been turned over to the State Department.


In a second memo the next day, Blumenthal noted “sensitive sources” in Libya said Ansar al-Sharia, an Al Qaeda-backed terror group, had planned the attacks for a month and used the protest as a cover. That information contradicted the official White House narrative at the time about the attacks’ genesis.
“We should get this around asap,” Clinton wrote in an email to Sullivan.

The emails show Clinton’s personal engagement in the political controversy that exploded in the days after the attacks, which killed U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans.

For instance, Blumenthal also flagged a Salon article for Clinton on Oct. 1, 2012, addressing the “Jimmy Carter Strategy,” that warned of the Republicans’ potential intent to exploit the Benghazi attacks to damage President Barack Obama a month before the election. Clinton then forwarded the message to Sullivan.

“Be sure Ben knows they need to be ready for this line of attack,” Clinton wrote, referencing deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes.

In another email, this one sent to chief of staff Cheryl Mills, Clinton noted an NPR report that refuted the earlier narrative that there had been a demonstration.


“I just heard an npr report about the CIA station chief in Tripoli sending a cable on 9/12 saying there was no demo etc. Do you know about this?” she wrote in an Oct. 19, 2012, message.

Mills responded: “Have not seen - will see if we can get.”

Clinton downplayed Blumenthal’s influence in answers to reporters’ questions this week in Iowa, describing the emails as useful to ensure that she wasn’t “caught in a bubble” with information coming only “from a certain small group of people.”

“He sent me unsolicited emails which I passed on in some instances, and I say that that’s just part of the give and take,” Clinton said Tuesday.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/sidney-blumenthal-hillary-clinton-emails-benghazi-attack-118173.html#ixzz3amLuswMS

 

[timschochet]

I still dont get why you think this is such a big deal.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

CNN's Jake Tapper hosted Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates on "The Lead" Tuesday, and the Defense Secretary in the Bush #43 and Obama administrations was not kind to President Obama and his Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. He criticized Obama for not trying harder to leave a residual force in Iraq and Ms. Clinton for pushing the president to get involved in Libya.

Gates wrote in his book 'Duty' that the only big disagreement he had with Hillary Clinton was over Libya. He wanted the U.S. to leave Libya alone, Hillary wanted a U.S. intervention. On Tuesday he said looking at it in hindsight he was right and Hillary's position was incorrect.

Tapper: You write in the book about the only major decision with which you disagreed with then Secretary Of State Hillary Clinton with whom you had a strong working relationship--you said whether or not the U.S. should intervene militarily in Libya. Looking back on it, you feel comfortable in your decision? I mean the again side in Benghazi was prevented and yet you look at what's going on in Libya, it's hard to argue that the Obama administration had a plan for yards.Gates: The irony is some of those who are the most critical of President Bush not having a plan in Iraq after Saddam Hussein was ousted didn't have a plan for what to do in Libya after Gaddafi was ousted. I believe if you look at Libya today, that my opposition to our intervening there was the right thing to have done. I think particularly once we prevented the humanitarian slaughter that we all worried about in Benghazi. But once we prevented that and we could for a much smaller cost have sustained that protection of the eastern part of the country, I think going in, throwing out Gaddafi was a mistake.

http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2015/05/fomer-defense-sec-bob-gates-throws.html

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

still dont get why you think this is such a big deal.

I don't know that it is a big deal, but it is unfolding history.

Apparently the political memo by Ben Rhodes is taking on more context now.

There is the DOD memo which is very clear what the intelligence position was at the time, and meanwhile even though the movie-as-cause concept appeared to be coming from an unauthorized, amateur who was an old friend and political operative of Hillary's the very next day he corrected that report and said the movie had nothing to do with the movie.

Second Memo Provides Detailed Account of BenghaziThe next day, Mr. Blumenthal sent Mrs. Clinton a more thorough account of what had occurred. Citing “sensitive sources” in Libya, the memo provided extensive detail about the episode, saying that the siege had been set off by members of Ansar al-Shariah, the Libyan terrorist group. Those militants had ties to Al Qaeda, had planned the attacks for a month and had used a nearby protest as cover for the siege, the memo said. “We should get this around asap” Mrs. Clinton said in an email to Mr. Sullivan. “Will do,” he responded. That information contradicted the Obama administration’s narrative at the time about what had spawned the attacks. Republicans have said the administration misled the country about the attacks because it did not want to undermine the notion that President Obama, who was up for re-election, was winning the war on terrorism. (Pages 200-203)

Meanwhile, the only way Hillary apparently found out about our actual intelligence sources on the ground, the cable of 9/12/12, was via NPR 2-3 weeks later.

 

[timschochet]

There is very little analogy between Libya and Iraq. In Libya, like Egypt, we were presented with a revolt by the public. It was a question of whether we should support that revolt. There is good reason to believe the revolt would have succeeded whether we helped it or not, and so we did help it because the intent was that during Arab Spring we wanted to be on the side of the rebels so as to forge new relationships in the region. That may still work out for us though at the moment things look bleak. But it was a complicated decision and there were no really "good" choices for us IMO.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I still dont get why you think this is such a big deal.

I would say this is a much bigger deal than, say, BridgeGate.

 

[timschochet]

Blumenthal's unsolicited memos to Hillary are hardly "unfolding history". IMO, they're an extremely minor issue which you and others are trying to blow up to make her look bad or corrupt or whatever. In terms of what went right and wrong in Libya, they're barely a footnote.

 

[timschochet]

I still dont get why you think this is such a big deal.

I would say this is a much bigger deal than, say, BridgeGate.

Well, since I don't think anything of that issue either, the analogy doesn't really impress me.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

There is very little analogy between Libya and Iraq. In Libya, like Egypt, we were presented with a revolt by the public. It was a question of whether we should support that revolt. There is good reason to believe the revolt would have succeeded whether we helped it or not, and so we did help it because the intent was that during Arab Spring we wanted to be on the side of the rebels so as to forge new relationships in the region. That may still work out for us though at the moment things look bleak. But it was a complicated decision and there were no really "good" choices for us IMO.

Here's Gates himself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmg9MHsZfHI

Apparently he holds a different opinion.

It doesn't get mentioned enough, but we did do regime change in Libya, without Congressional authorization, without UN authorization, and our air force took out Qaddafi's convoy. Chaos ensued. We also supported the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Blumenthal's unsolicited memos to Hillary are hardly "unfolding history". IMO, they're an extremely minor issue which you and others are trying to blow up to make her look bad or corrupt or whatever. In terms of what went right and wrong in Libya, they're barely a footnote.

Tim, if they were unsolicited why was Hillary forwarding them to the highest level including Ben Rhodes and Jake Sullivan, with comments?

- ETA - it wasn't a footnote in Hillary's book because she did not want anyone to know these communications with Blumenthal existed. Her account looks pretty hollow now when you consider the DOD said that the militias were planning an attack 10 days in advance and when Hillary was receiving memos from her "old friend" in live time and the fact that he concocted the movie dream himself on the 11th and then corrected it the very next day on the 12th.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I still dont get why you think this is such a big deal.

I would say this is a much bigger deal than, say, BridgeGate.

Well, since I don't think anything of that issue either, the analogy doesn't really impress me.

I went back and reread my post. I know it was lengthy, so words can be confused, but after further review, I can assure you I did not say that you did think anything of that situation.

 

[timschochet]

There is very little analogy between Libya and Iraq. In Libya, like Egypt, we were presented with a revolt by the public. It was a question of whether we should support that revolt. There is good reason to believe the revolt would have succeeded whether we helped it or not, and so we did help it because the intent was that during Arab Spring we wanted to be on the side of the rebels so as to forge new relationships in the region. That may still work out for us though at the moment things look bleak. But it was a complicated decision and there were no really "good" choices for us IMO.

Here's Gates himself:

Well he's trying to sell a book. As for the Muslim Brotherhood, we supported Arab Spring in Egypt. I'm pretty sure we were hoping at the time for a little different result.

 

[timschochet]

I still dont get why you think this is such a big deal.

I would say this is a much bigger deal than, say, BridgeGate.

Well, since I don't think anything of that issue either, the analogy doesn't really impress me.

I went back and reread my post. I know it was lengthy, so words can be confused, but after further review, I can assure you I did not say that you did think anything of that situation.

I know. I was interjecting my own thoughts because I believe they are of paramount importance to you.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

There is very little analogy between Libya and Iraq. In Libya, like Egypt, we were presented with a revolt by the public. It was a question of whether we should support that revolt. There is good reason to believe the revolt would have succeeded whether we helped it or not, and so we did help it because the intent was that during Arab Spring we wanted to be on the side of the rebels so as to forge new relationships in the region. That may still work out for us though at the moment things look bleak. But it was a complicated decision and there were no really "good" choices for us IMO.

Here's Gates himself:

We also criticized taking the giovernment back from Morsi, who is now under a death sentence, rightfully. The US has been slow to embrace Sissi, the most prominent reform in the ME outside Israel now.

 

[timschochet]

There is very little analogy between Libya and Iraq. In Libya, like Egypt, we were presented with a revolt by the public. It was a question of whether we should support that revolt. There is good reason to believe the revolt would have succeeded whether we helped it or not, and so we did help it because the intent was that during Arab Spring we wanted to be on the side of the rebels so as to forge new relationships in the region. That may still work out for us though at the moment things look bleak. But it was a complicated decision and there were no really "good" choices for us IMO.

Here's Gates himself:

Thats true, and it may be a mistake on our part.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I still dont get why you think this is such a big deal.

I would say this is a much bigger deal than, say, BridgeGate.

Well, since I don't think anything of that issue either, the analogy doesn't really impress me.

I went back and reread my post. I know it was lengthy, so words can be confused, but after further review, I can assure you I did not say that you did think anything of that situation.

I know. I was interjecting my own thoughts because I believe they are of paramount importance to you.

Fair point.

 

[timschochet]

But honestly Saints the way I see it is this: from the moment Arab Spring began (and actually even before, from the moment we invaded Iraq) the Middle East has been a minefield- not that it hasn't always been one but at least before the various dangers were recognizable- now they're new. Clinton, Gates, and Obama were faced with numerous hard challenges and decisions and we won't know for quite some time whether they made the right ones. Personally I'm loath to criticize when we're unable to analyze the results clearly OR the results of alternatives (and when the alternatives are not clearly defined.)

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Blumenthal's unsolicited memos to Hillary are hardly "unfolding history". IMO, they're an extremely minor issue which you and others are trying to blow up to make her look bad or corrupt or whatever. In terms of what went right and wrong in Libya, they're barely a footnote.

Tim, if they were unsolicited why was Hillary forwarding them to the highest level including Ben Rhodes and Jake Sullivan, with comments?

- ETA - it wasn't a footnote in Hillary's book because she did not want anyone to know these communications with Blumenthal existed. Her account looks pretty hollow now when you consider the DOD said that the militias were planning an attack 10 days in advance and when Hillary was receiving memos from her "old friend" in live time and the fact that he concocted the movie dream himself on the 11th and then corrected it the very next day on the 12th.

 

[timschochet]

Blumenthal's unsolicited memos to Hillary are hardly "unfolding history". IMO, they're an extremely minor issue which you and others are trying to blow up to make her look bad or corrupt or whatever. In terms of what went right and wrong in Libya, they're barely a footnote.

Tim, if they were unsolicited why was Hillary forwarding them to the highest level including Ben Rhodes and Jake Sullivan, with comments?

- ETA - it wasn't a footnote in Hillary's book because she did not want anyone to know these communications with Blumenthal existed. Her account looks pretty hollow now when you consider the DOD said that the militias were planning an attack 10 days in advance and when Hillary was receiving memos from her "old friend" in live time and the fact that he concocted the movie dream himself on the 11th and then corrected it the very next day on the 12th.

He didn't concoct anything. Everybody at the time believed the movie was responsible- it was the logical thing to think. It still is, actually.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Tim the movie's role has been thoroughly debunked.

 

[jonessed]

Blumenthal's unsolicited memos to Hillary are hardly "unfolding history". IMO, they're an extremely minor issue which you and others are trying to blow up to make her look bad or corrupt or whatever. In terms of what went right and wrong in Libya, they're barely a footnote.

Tim, if they were unsolicited why was Hillary forwarding them to the highest level including Ben Rhodes and Jake Sullivan, with comments?

- ETA - it wasn't a footnote in Hillary's book because she did not want anyone to know these communications with Blumenthal existed. Her account looks pretty hollow now when you consider the DOD said that the militias were planning an attack 10 days in advance and when Hillary was receiving memos from her "old friend" in live time and the fact that he concocted the movie dream himself on the 11th and then corrected it the very next day on the 12th.

He didn't concoct anything. Everybody at the time believed the movie was responsible- it was the logical thing to think. It still is, actually.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

First Batch of Hillary Clinton Emails Captures Concerns Over LibyaWASHINGTON — The State Department is expected to release the first batch of emails from Hillary Rodham Clinton’s private email address in the coming days.

The emails set for release, drawn from some 55,000 pages and focused on Libya, have already been turned over to the special House committee investigating the 2012 attacks on the United States outposts in Benghazi. The New York Times has obtained about a third of the 850 pages of emails.

They capture the correspondence and concerns expressed among Mrs. Clinton, who was secretary of state at the time, and her advisers following the attacks, which claimed the lives of the American ambassador, J. Christopher Stevens, and three other Americans.

The emails also offer occasional glimpses into the private side of Mrs. Clinton’s life, such as her public-radio listening habits and the fact that she was complimented for how she looked in a photo that appeared on the front page of The Times.

In response to requests from the news media and Mrs. Clinton, who has said she wants the emails to be made public, the State Department has drawn up plans to release them.

The emails appear to back up Mrs. Clinton’s previous assertions that she did not receive classified information at her private email address.

But some of the emails contain what the government calls “sensitive” information or “SBU’’ — sensitive but unclassified. This includes details of the whereabouts of State Department officials in Libya when security there was deteriorating during the 2011 revolution. One email from a year and a half before the attacks that was marked sensitive but unclassified contained the whereabouts of Mr. Stevens as he considered leaving Benghazi during the uprising against the Qaddafi regime because of the deteriorating security.

“The envoy’s delegation is currently doing a phased checkout (paying the hotel bills, moving some comms to the boat, etc.),” said the email that was forwarded to Mrs. Clinton from a close aide, Huma Abedin. “He will monitor the situation to see if it deteriorates further, but no decision has been made on departure. He will wait 2-3 more hours, then revisit the decision on departure.”

“The envoy’s delegation is currently doing a phased checkout (paying the hotel bills, moving some comms to the boat, etc.),” said the email that was forwarded to Mrs. Clinton from a close aide, Huma Abedin. “He will monitor the situation to see if it deteriorates further, but no decision has been made on departure. He will wait 2-3 more hours, then revisit the decision on departure.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/us/politics/first-batch-of-hillary-clinton-emails-captures-concerns-over-libya.html?via=newsletter&source=CSAMedition&_r=0

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So apparently the documents produced per the FOIA requests by Judicial Watch are finally coming to light.

Here is the most recent one, it's a Department of Defense memo dated September 16, 2012.

TEXT: 1. (SYNC) EXECUTIVE SUMMARY. Brigades of the Captive Omar Abdul Rahman claim ultimate responsibility for the attacks on the

U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya. The group has training locations around Libya and subscribe to AQ ideologies.

(.6.444F4 The attack on the American consulate in Benghazi was planned and executed by The Brigades of the Captive Omar Abdul Rahman (BCOAR). BCOAR is also responsible for past attacks on the Red Cross in Benghazi and the attack on the British ambassador, they have approximately 120 members. The BCOAR are connected to Ansar al Sharia katiba, commanded by Sofian AL ((GUMMA)). They are based in Dema but have a branch in Benghazi. Ansar al Sharia share the same ideology as BCOAR, but it is not thought that they were involved in the attack on the U.S. American Consulate on 11 September 2012.

(S//NF) The attack was planned ten or more days prior on approximately 01 September 2012. The intention was to attack the consulate and to kill as many Americans as possible to seek revenge for U.S. killing of Aboyahiye ((ALALIBY)) in Pakistan and in memorial of the 11 September 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center buildings. (Eri441.) The leader of BCOAR is Abdul Baset ((AZUZ)), AZUZ was sent by ((ZAWARI)) to set up Al Qacda (AQ) bases in Libya. It was stated that AZUZ was not a charismatic leader but rather just a violent radical. He is also a member of the Abu Slim Martyrs Katiba, run by Fati ((AG IB)).

(SI/NT) Within the last year AZUZ established the Al-Tawheed (Oneness of Clod) college in Derna, the establishment of this college was authorized by the Ministry of Education with the approval of the Under Secretary of the Ministry of Education, Fathi ((AL-KA'ARY)), a member of the Muslim brother hood movement and currently one of the eight presidential candidates. Al-Tawheed College is the headquarters of BCOAR and is located next to the main Derna hospital. The majority of its members are under the age of 28 with a large number between the ages of 17-21 years of age. AZT, ..1Z has managed to establish a headquarters and training facility in Dema, they train in the mountains surrounding Derna where they have large caches of weapons. Some of these caches arc disguised by feeding troughs for livestock. They have SA-7 and SA-23/4 MANPADS as well as unidentified missiles over two meters in length. They train almost every day focusing on religious lessons and scripture including three lessons a day of jihadist ideology.

(-S41k1F-) Approximately 120 men of the BCOAR train in this area and sometimes they are joined by other radical groups such as Abu Slim Martyrs Katiba, Ansar al Sharia Katiba. One of BCOAR's main planning locations is Hamza Mosque nobody with the exception of their group is allowed to pray there, everyone in Derma is aware of this. (SIINF) The most important location is Al-Sadaqa Mosque, … There is a small rectangular room, approximately 12 meters by 6 meters in the vicinity of the mosque that contains a large number of written documents. The majority of their documentation is written as the group very rarely uses e-mail, these documents contain information on all of the AQ activity in Libya.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What Sidney Blumenthal’s Memos to Hillary Clinton Said, and How They Were HandledIn 2011 and 2012, Hillary Rodham Clinton received at least 25 memos about Libya from Sidney Blumenthal, a friend and confidant who at the time was employed by the Clinton Foundation. The memos, written in the style of intelligence cables, make up about a third of the almost 900 pages of emails related to Libya that Mrs. Clinton said she kept on the personal email account she used exclusively as secretary of state. Some of Mr. Blumenthal’s memos appeared to be based on reports supplied by American contractors he was advising as they sought to do business in Libya. Mr. Blumenthal also appeared to be gathering information from anonymous Libyan and Western officials and local news media reports. What follows are descriptions of some of the memos and how they were handled by Mrs. Clinton and her aides.

Clinton Says Idea on Rebels Should Be ConsideredIn April 2011, Mr. Blumenthal sent Mrs. Clinton a memo about the rebel forces fighting the regime of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. The rebels, Mr. Blumenthal wrote, were considering hiring security contractors to train their forces. Mrs. Clinton forwarded the memo to her aide, Jake Sullivan, and said that the idea should be considered. (Pages 1-3)

In 2011 and 2012, Mrs. Clinton forwarded 18 memos to Mr. Sullivan, who in turn circulated them to senior State Department officials, including Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, who was killed in the 2012 attacks in Benghazi, and Ambassador Gene A. Cretz, who preceded him.

An Alert to Possible Terrorist Attacks in LibyaIn May 2011, Mr. Blumenthal sent Mrs. Clinton a memo reporting that affiliates of Al Qaeda in Libya were plotting attacks in revenge for the United States’ killing of Osama bin Laden. Mrs. Clinton forwarded the email to Mr. Sullivan, saying that it was “disturbing, if true.” Mr. Sullivan questioned its accuracy, but said he would share with others. (Pages 4-5)

...

A Memo Is Passed On, Despite QuestionsIn March 2012, Mrs. Clinton forwarded a memo by Mr. Blumenthal to Mr. Sullivan, saying that she was dubious about its content. Mr. Sullivan agreed, stating that Mr. Blumenthal’s report resembled “a conspiracy theory” — but still asked State Department officials to review it. (Pages 16-17)

A Warning Is Forwarded to Incoming AmbassadorIn April 2012, Mr. Blumenthal wrote to Mrs. Clinton warning about the imminent rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Libya. Mrs. Clinton forwarded the memo to Mr. Sullivan, who sent it to Mr. Stevens, the incoming United States ambassador to Libya. Mr. Stevens’ response — that the Brotherhood in fact had a relatively small following in Libya — was passed on to Mrs. Clinton. (Pages 18-24)

Clinton Suggests Sharing Information With IsraelAfter receiving an August 2012 memo from Mr. Blumenthal about how the new Libyan prime minister wanted to have a better relationship with Israel, Mrs. Clinton suggested to Mr. Sullivan that they pass the intelligence along to the Israelis. (Pages 25-27)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/us/politics/what-sidney-blumenthals-memos-to-hillary-clinton-said-and-how-they-were-handled.html

Blumenthal Memos Were Often Circulated Without Identifying Their SourceFrom 2011 to 2012, Sidney Blumenthal, a longtime friend and confidant who was a senior adviser to Mrs. Clinton during her 2008 presidential campaign, sent her at least 25 memos about Libya, including several about the Benghazi attacks. Mrs. Clinton forwarded most of them to Jake Sullivan, her trusted foreign policy adviser. Mr. Sullivan would then send the memos along to other senior State Department officials, asking for their feedback. There is no evidence those officials were told that the memos were from Mr. Blumenthal. In April 2012, J. Christopher Stevens, the ambassador who died in the Benghazi attacks, was asked by Mr. Sullivan to provide his thoughts on the latest information “from HRC friend.” (Pages 127-128) Brian Fallon, a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, said that Mr. Blumenthal had not been working for the government in any official capacity at the time and that his emails to Mrs. Clinton had not been solicited.

In Memo, Blumenthal Initially Blames Demonstrators for AttacksThe day after the Sept. 11, 2012, attacks on American outposts in Benghazi that killed Mr. Stevens and three other Americans, Mr. Blumenthal sent Mrs. Clinton a memo with his intelligence about what had occurred. The memo said the attacks were by “demonstrators” who “were inspired by what many devout Libyan viewed as a sacrilegious internet video on the prophet Mohammed originating in America.” Mrs. Clinton forwarded the memo to Mr. Sullivan, saying “More info.” (Pages 193-195)

Second Memo Provides Detailed Account of BenghaziThe next day [september 13], Mr. Blumenthal sent Mrs. Clinton a more thorough account of what had occurred. Citing “sensitive sources” in Libya, the memo provided extensive detail about the episode, saying that the siege had been set off by members of Ansar al-Shariah, the Libyan terrorist group. Those militants had ties to Al Qaeda, had planned the attacks for a month and had used a nearby protest as cover for the siege, the memo said. “We should get this around asap” Mrs. Clinton said in an email to Mr. Sullivan. “Will do,” he responded. That information contradicted the Obama administration’s narrative at the time about what had spawned the attacks. Republicans have said the administration misled the country about the attacks because it did not want to undermine the notion that President Obama, who was up for re-election, was winning the war on terrorism. (Pages 200-203)

Blumenthal Warns of Political AttacksIn early October 2012, a month before Mr. Obama was re-elected, Mr. Blumenthal forwarded Mrs. Clinton an article on a left-leaning website. The article cautioned that the Republicans could exploit the attacks in a “Jimmy Carter Strategy” and use them to paint Mr. Obama as weak on terrorism. Mrs. Clinton forwarded the email to Mr. Sullivan. “Be sure Ben knows they need to be ready for this line of attack,” Mrs. Clinton wrote. She did not say to which Ben she was referring, but one of Mr. Obama’s senior national security advisers is Benjamin J. Rhodes, who handles communications and speechwriting. Mrs. Clinton then told Mr. Blumenthal that she was “pushing to WH” the story. “According to Politico yesterday, there was an internal argument within the Romney campaign over Libya,” Mr. Blumenthal said in response. “Obviously, the neocons and the Rove oriented faction (Ed Gillespie, Rove’s surrogate is now a Romney campaign adviser) beat Stuart Stevens.” (Pages 215-225)

...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/us/politics/a-closer-look-at-hillary-clintons-emails-on-benghazi.html?_r=0

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Blumenthal's unsolicited memos to Hillary are hardly "unfolding history". IMO, they're an extremely minor issue which you and others are trying to blow up to make her look bad or corrupt or whatever. In terms of what went right and wrong in Libya, they're barely a footnote.

Tim, if they were unsolicited why was Hillary forwarding them to the highest level including Ben Rhodes and Jake Sullivan, with comments?

- ETA - it wasn't a footnote in Hillary's book because she did not want anyone to know these communications with Blumenthal existed. Her account looks pretty hollow now when you consider the DOD said that the militias were planning an attack 10 days in advance and when Hillary was receiving memos from her "old friend" in live time and the fact that he concocted the movie dream himself on the 11th and then corrected it the very next day on the 12th.

He didn't concoct anything. Everybody at the time believed the movie was responsible- it was the logical thing to think. It still is, actually.

Tim the movie's role has been thoroughly debunked.

Tim, I consider you to be someone who respects and understands history. I have one friend who really understands history and can probably catch some fairly arcane but important references like you and he has a masters in history and teaches history at a local college.

So I take it you understand the role of reviewing source documents in history to get a contemporaneous picture of what was going on when it was going on.

And what I'd like to know is what do you think of people who 1. try to claim a historical conclusion without having looked at all the documentation, and 2. people in history who try to frame historical perspective by limiting the available documentation for those who are trying to reach an understanding of historical events?

 

[timschochet]

I don't think any of this has anything to do with history.

 

[quickhands]

I still dont get why you think this is such a big deal.

This is a great comment.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't think any of this has anything to do with history.

Tim, original source documentation is history.

 

[Short Corner]

There is very little analogy between Libya and Iraq. In Libya, like Egypt, we were presented with a revolt by the public. It was a question of whether we should support that revolt. There is good reason to believe the revolt would have succeeded whether we helped it or not, and so we did help it because the intent was that during Arab Spring we wanted to be on the side of the rebels so as to forge new relationships in the region. That may still work out for us though at the moment things look bleak. But it was a complicated decision and there were no really "good" choices for us IMO.

Both were threats to the Petro-Dollar.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

From what I've read about dictatorships, most people really don't like them

Unfortunately in the mideast democracy may have hit a roadblock.

In Israel and Turkey it's worked. And even in Turkey there has been a major rollback lately which has been scarey.

Maybe Tunisia?

Elections in Iraq were fruitful.... then the shiites took over and it was a complete disaster.

In Afghanistan there were elections... but we are still there backing things.

Egypt, Libya, Yemen have all been disasters for democracy. Islamic fascism seems to be running rampant in Yemen, Libya, and the Levant and the Egyptian military shut it down there in the nick of time.

 

[timschochet]

I don't think any of this has anything to do with history.

Tim, original source documentation is history.

BUT THIS ISN'T ORIGINAL SOURCE DOCUMENTATION!!!!

Let me give you an example: Lincoln's trying to decide whether or not to sign the Emancipation Proclamation. He has a conversation with Seward, in which Seward tries to talk him into it. This conversation is recorded in Seward's diary, and in the diary of John Hay (Lincoln's secretary.) Those diaries are original source documentation- and that's history.

But let's suppose that a few days before the conversation took place, Seward was eating breakfast, and Seward's cook says to him "You should tell President Lincoln to free the slaves!" And Seward says, "Hmm yes, we're working on that." And then the cook records that in her diary. Is this an original source? Sure. Is it pertinent to history? Hardly.

Hillary Clinton's reliance on Sidney Blumenthal has all of the weight and influence as Seward's cook. Unless you can somehow show that Hillary was directly influenced by these emails, they're an original source of NOTHING. They prove absolutely NOTHING. They had NOTHING to do with President Obama's decisions in Libya. They're certainly not an original source relating to those decisions in any way. They're totally irrelevant.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

There is very little analogy between Libya and Iraq. In Libya, like Egypt, we were presented with a revolt by the public. It was a question of whether we should support that revolt. There is good reason to believe the revolt would have succeeded whether we helped it or not, and so we did help it because the intent was that during Arab Spring we wanted to be on the side of the rebels so as to forge new relationships in the region. That may still work out for us though at the moment things look bleak. But it was a complicated decision and there were no really "good" choices for us IMO.

Both were threats to the Petro-Dollar.

Overly simplistic but fun - is this correct?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't think any of this has anything to do with history.

Tim, original source documentation is history.

BUT THIS ISN'T ORIGINAL SOURCE DOCUMENTATION!!!!

Let me give you an example: Lincoln's trying to decide whether or not to sign the Emancipation Proclamation. He has a conversation with Seward, in which Seward tries to talk him into it. This conversation is recorded in Seward's diary, and in the diary of John Hay (Lincoln's secretary.) Those diaries are original source documentation- and that's history.

But let's suppose that a few days before the conversation took place, Seward was eating breakfast, and Seward's cook says to him "You should tell President Lincoln to free the slaves!" And Seward says, "Hmm yes, we're working on that." And then the cook records that in her diary. Is this an original source? Sure. Is it pertinent to history? Hardly.

Hillary Clinton's reliance on Sidney Blumenthal has all of the weight and influence as Seward's cook. Unless you can somehow show that Hillary was directly influenced by these emails, they're an original source of NOTHING. They prove absolutely NOTHING. They had NOTHING to do with President Obama's decisions in Libya. They're certainly not an original source relating to those decisions in any way. They're totally irrelevant.

Hillary is literally Seward in that example, Seward is SOS, Hillary is SOS. The communications we are talking about here are from the DOD and from Hillary herself.

For example:

“We should get this around asap” Mrs. Clinton said in an email to Mr. Sullivan. “Will do,” he responded.

 

[cstu]

There is very little analogy between Libya and Iraq. In Libya, like Egypt, we were presented with a revolt by the public. It was a question of whether we should support that revolt. There is good reason to believe the revolt would have succeeded whether we helped it or not, and so we did help it because the intent was that during Arab Spring we wanted to be on the side of the rebels so as to forge new relationships in the region. That may still work out for us though at the moment things look bleak. But it was a complicated decision and there were no really "good" choices for us IMO.

Both were threats to the Petro-Dollar.

Overly simplistic but fun - is this correct?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec

Don't think most liberals had a problem removing Saddam from power. They did have a problem with $2 Trillion and 4000 Americans dead.

ETA: And based on lies.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

There is very little analogy between Libya and Iraq. In Libya, like Egypt, we were presented with a revolt by the public. It was a question of whether we should support that revolt. There is good reason to believe the revolt would have succeeded whether we helped it or not, and so we did help it because the intent was that during Arab Spring we wanted to be on the side of the rebels so as to forge new relationships in the region. That may still work out for us though at the moment things look bleak. But it was a complicated decision and there were no really "good" choices for us IMO.

Both were threats to the Petro-Dollar.

Overly simplistic but fun - is this correct?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyCdfOXvec

Don't think most liberals had a problem removing Saddam from power. They did have a problem with $2 Trillion and 4000 Americans dead.

Yeah. And other stuff, like assuming responsibility for occupation and not planning for security or guerrilla warfare.

 

[cstu]

From what I've read about dictatorships, most people really don't like them

Unfortunately in the mideast democracy may have hit a roadblock.

In Israel and Turkey it's worked. And even in Turkey there has been a major rollback lately which has been scarey.

Maybe Tunisia?

Elections in Iraq were fruitful.... then the shiites took over and it was a complete disaster.

In Afghanistan there were elections... but we are still there backing things.

Egypt, Libya, Yemen have all been disasters for democracy. Islamic fascism seems to be running rampant in Yemen, Libya, and the Levant and the Egyptian military shut it down there in the nick of time.

One step at a time...this democracy thing isn't perfect.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

From what I've read about dictatorships, most people really don't like them

Unfortunately in the mideast democracy may have hit a roadblock.

In Israel and Turkey it's worked. And even in Turkey there has been a major rollback lately which has been scarey.

Maybe Tunisia?

Elections in Iraq were fruitful.... then the shiites took over and it was a complete disaster.

In Afghanistan there were elections... but we are still there backing things.

Egypt, Libya, Yemen have all been disasters for democracy. Islamic fascism seems to be running rampant in Yemen, Libya, and the Levant and the Egyptian military shut it down there in the nick of time.

One step at a time...this democracy thing isn't perfect.

Just a personal note: the whole thing saddens me. I thought we had a real shot at something like world peace in the 1990's. Things seem to be reverting to some kind of pre-WW1 global competition for resources, nationalism and militarization. I hope somehow the mideast figures it all out. It feels like a huge Gordian Knot right now.

 

[Ksquared]

I was as big of a supporter of spreading democracy as anyone and also thought spreading it to the Middle East would help empower the people and lead to more stability.

As these situations have evolved in the last 20+ years I have done a great deal more reading about our founding fathers and especially many of the political philosophers and thinkers they read to develop the foundational parts of our government. Many of the historical political thinkers believed a democratic republic the best form of government but you had to have a "civil" society for it to succeed. The masses need to behave in a "civil" manner or democracy may be worse than a dictatorship. Seems many of these original thinkers analyzed human nature and history pretty accurately. I think that is the biggest mistake that has been made (especially by Bush (Iraq) but more recently by Obama) the spreading of democracy only works if basic civil interactions are the norm for that society and culture.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I was as big of a supporter of spreading democracy as anyone and also thought spreading it to the Middle East would help empower the people and lead to more stability.

As these situations have evolved in the last 20+ years I have done a great deal more reading about our founding fathers and especially many of the political philosophers and thinkers they read to develop the foundational parts of our government. Many of the historical political thinkers believed a democratic republic the best form of government but you had to have a "civil" society for it to succeed. The masses need to behave in a "civil" manner or democracy may be worse than a dictatorship. Seems many of these original thinkers analyzed human nature and history pretty accurately. I think that is the biggest mistake that has been made (especially by Bush (Iraq) but more recently by Obama) the spreading of democracy only works if basic civil interactions are the norm for that society and culture.

Great point, horses and carts and all that.

 

[timschochet]

I was as big of a supporter of spreading democracy as anyone and also thought spreading it to the Middle East would help empower the people and lead to more stability.

As these situations have evolved in the last 20+ years I have done a great deal more reading about our founding fathers and especially many of the political philosophers and thinkers they read to develop the foundational parts of our government. Many of the historical political thinkers believed a democratic republic the best form of government but you had to have a "civil" society for it to succeed. The masses need to behave in a "civil" manner or democracy may be worse than a dictatorship. Seems many of these original thinkers analyzed human nature and history pretty accurately. I think that is the biggest mistake that has been made (especially by Bush (Iraq) but more recently by Obama) the spreading of democracy only works if basic civil interactions are the norm for that society and culture.

This is true. But its not the same kind of mistake. Bush chose to invade Iraq, destabilizing a stable regime.

In the cases of Egypt, Libya, and Syria, it was not Obama who created the crisis. Each of these states had a major revolt. Our decision was either to support those revolts, or take no action. Unlike Iraq, we did not attempt to create a democracy; we supported the revolts and hoped for democracy to come. Those critical of Obama and Hillary's decision making have yet to provide good alternatives.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Blumenthal's unsolicited memos to Hillary are hardly "unfolding history". IMO, they're an extremely minor issue which you and others are trying to blow up to make her look bad or corrupt or whatever. In terms of what went right and wrong in Libya, they're barely a footnote.

Our world is being transformed before our eyes and it's mostly due to Facebook and Twitter- it's beyond amazing. Is it hyperbole to suggest that historians will look at 2011 as a momentous year in human history? I'm beginning to think this is the case.

About 8 weeks after you wrote that, Hillary wrote this, taking up Sid Blumenthal's suggestion that perhaps the US should support the rebels with arms.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/05/19/us/politics/libya-related-messages-hillary-clinton-email-account.html?action=click&contentCollection=Politics&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

 

[cstu]

One step at a time...this democracy thing isn't perfect.

Just a personal note: the whole thing saddens me. I thought we had a real shot at something like world peace in the 1990's. Things seem to be reverting to some kind of pre-WW1 global competition for resources, nationalism and militarization. I hope somehow the mideast figures it all out. It feels like a huge Gordian Knot right now.

Read this and look at this chart.

We've never lived in a better time.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

One step at a time...this democracy thing isn't perfect.

Just a personal note: the whole thing saddens me. I thought we had a real shot at something like world peace in the 1990's. Things seem to be reverting to some kind of pre-WW1 global competition for resources, nationalism and militarization. I hope somehow the mideast figures it all out. It feels like a huge Gordian Knot right now.

Read this and look at this chart.

We've never lived in a better time.

Good stuff, I will take some time to ready this, thanks.

 

[TheIronSheik]

One step at a time...this democracy thing isn't perfect.

Just a personal note: the whole thing saddens me. I thought we had a real shot at something like world peace in the 1990's. Things seem to be reverting to some kind of pre-WW1 global competition for resources, nationalism and militarization. I hope somehow the mideast figures it all out. It feels like a huge Gordian Knot right now.

Read this and look at this chart.

We've never lived in a better time.

I believe that spike in the early 80's is directly due to the Battle of the Network Stars.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

One step at a time...this democracy thing isn't perfect.

Just a personal note: the whole thing saddens me. I thought we had a real shot at something like world peace in the 1990's. Things seem to be reverting to some kind of pre-WW1 global competition for resources, nationalism and militarization. I hope somehow the mideast figures it all out. It feels like a huge Gordian Knot right now.

Read this and look at this chart.

We've never lived in a better time.

I believe that spike in the early 80's is directly due to the Battle of the Network Stars.

Espn Classic has been showing reruns of these lately btw...