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Lions to have RBBC (1 Viewer)

If Pinner is a stud, why would they Draft Jones with so many other pressing needs?
Not my point so much - and I can't give a great answer to your question. The whole "best player on the board" theory would be the simplest answer. Obviously the Pinner injury was of some concern, but they were still willing to take him in the second round last year knowing he may not even play last year. I'm saying he has the ability to be a very productive back in the league, and to automatically dismiss him because they drafted Jones might not be the best course of action.I personally would (and will) lay off this RBBC situation. I'm not really trying to steer anybody - just some personal observation from watching Pinner play a lot. I've seen a lot of bad players over the years, but Pinner was something special.
 
If Pinner is a stud, why would they Draft Jones with so many other pressing needs?
Not my point so much - and I can't give a great answer to your question. The whole "best player on the board" theory would be the simplest answer. Obviously the Pinner injury was of some concern, but they were still willing to take him in the second round last year knowing he may not even play last year. I'm saying he has the ability to be a very productive back in the league, and to automatically dismiss him because they drafted Jones might not be the best course of action.I personally would (and will) lay off this RBBC situation. I'm not really trying to steer anybody - just some personal observation from watching Pinner play a lot. I've seen a lot of bad players over the years, but Pinner was something special.
I respect that.So do you think Pinner can compete with Jones for playing time? Also, why where the scouts so down on him?
 
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Also, why where the scouts so down on him?
If I recall correctly, he was projected as a possible late first rounder until he got hurt in the post-season game. And I say coming out of Kentucky didn't help him much either...
 
LHUCKS - you make some good points, but if I may attempt to answer your questions, I'll try to do so..If Pinner is a stud, why would they Draft Jones with so many other pressing needs? Look no further than Denver, Philadelphia, Jacksonville. Every team wants the so-called stud RB, yet even teams with talented first round RBs need more than one to carry the load at times. Injuries, hold outs, age, etc. Not all of these apply to the Lions, but the value was so good for the Lions to grab both players in each draft that Millen did the right thing and made the move to take them.There were several draft "experts" like Kiper on the local radio shows after the 2003 NFL draft hailing Pinner as potentially the 'steal of the draft'. lol.. whether or not that is true remains to be seen.So do you think Pinner can compete with Jones for playing time? Absolutely. The coaching staff raves about both players, but I can assure you that Mooch is not lost on Pinner's abilities. He's a former/converted FB so the art of blocking, picking up blitzes and catching the football are not lost on Pinner. It would be too easy to compare him to his former alum Moe Williams, but quite honestly they do have similar abilities. Pinner struggled learning the offense last year and obviously had the injury (broken foot) to deal with, but once he got back into practice at the end of the year there was a bit of a buzz around him and everyone has been somewhat anticipating what he'll do this year.Also, why where the scouts so down on him? He broke his foot in the Senior Bowl (I think - it was one of those all-star bowl games). The injury caused his workouts to be less than stellar and while he's no burner, his times weren't what scouts expected. Still, as IAMFLIPPER pointed out, not many RBs earn the coveted SEC Player of the Year award without good reason. While I'm a Big Ten fan, I always perk my ears up when I see a player like Pinner go in the 4th round in relative obscurity only to learn they were the SEC Player of the Year.I don't know that I'd strategize around drafting both backs - especially in re-draft leagues, but it's certainly not a good idea to discount Pinner and assume Jones will be the man from the get-go. If anything, I'd inch Pinner up my draft list of ranked RBs into the middle to upper ranks of NFL backups with starter potential. I would still draft Jones as a potential starter, but I'd ultimately be most comfortable if I could grab him as my #3 - which might prove to be wishful thinking in reality.

 
Good post.I admittedly saw very little of Pinner in college and was very unimpressed by Pinner in the regular season last year. But I keep reading that Pinner is better than he showed last year, so there must be at least a little something to it. I'll be watching this situation closely in the preseason.

 
Good post.I admittedly saw very little of Pinner in college and was very unimpressed by Pinner in the regular season last year. But I keep reading that Pinner is better than he showed last year, so there must be at least a little something to it. I'll be watching this situation closely in the preseason.
...but it won't officially be a RBBC until the Coach says they're "splitting" carries...Colin
 
Good post.I admittedly saw very little of Pinner in college and was very unimpressed by Pinner in the regular season last year. But I keep reading that Pinner is better than he showed last year, so there must be at least a little something to it. I'll be watching this situation closely in the preseason.
...but it won't officially be a RBBC until the Coach says they're "splitting" carries...Colin
sure, I'll go on record and say that this wont be a RBBC.How about yourself Colin (aka stalker)? Where do you stand? Let's hear it.
 
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Good post.I admittedly saw very little of Pinner in college and was very unimpressed by Pinner in the regular season last year.  But I keep reading that Pinner is better than he showed last year, so there must be at least a little something to it.  I'll be watching this situation closely in the preseason.
...but it won't officially be a RBBC until the Coach says they're "splitting" carries...Colin
sure, I'll go on record and say that this wont be a RBBC.How about yourself Colin (aka stalker)? Where do you stand? Let's hear it.
Jones 268 carries.Pinner 105 carries.Bryson 62 carries.See, LHUCKs, its possible to "split carries" and have a guy thats a FF producer.COlin
 
Good post.I admittedly saw very little of Pinner in college and was very unimpressed by Pinner in the regular season last year. But I keep reading that Pinner is better than he showed last year, so there must be at least a little something to it. I'll be watching this situation closely in the preseason.
...but it won't officially be a RBBC until the Coach says they're "splitting" carries...Colin
sure, I'll go on record and say that this wont be a RBBC.How about yourself Colin (aka stalker)? Where do you stand? Let's hear it.
Jones 268 carries.Pinner 105 carries.Bryson 62 carries.See, LHUCKs, its possible to "split carries" and have a guy thats a FF producer.COlin
This probably goes without saying but I think the carries will be much more evenly distributed in TENN.
 
Good post.I admittedly saw very little of Pinner in college and was very unimpressed by Pinner in the regular season last year.  But I keep reading that Pinner is better than he showed last year, so there must be at least a little something to it.  I'll be watching this situation closely in the preseason.
...but it won't officially be a RBBC until the Coach says they're "splitting" carries...Colin
sure, I'll go on record and say that this wont be a RBBC.How about yourself Colin (aka stalker)? Where do you stand? Let's hear it.
Jones 268 carries.Pinner 105 carries.Bryson 62 carries.See, LHUCKs, its possible to "split carries" and have a guy thats a FF producer.COlin
This probably goes without saying but I think the carries will be much more evenly distributed in TENN.
Think fast:How do you see the carries shaking out in Tenn?Or have you even thought about it?COlin
 
Good post.I admittedly saw very little of Pinner in college and was very unimpressed by Pinner in the regular season last year. But I keep reading that Pinner is better than he showed last year, so there must be at least a little something to it. I'll be watching this situation closely in the preseason.
...but it won't officially be a RBBC until the Coach says they're "splitting" carries...Colin
sure, I'll go on record and say that this wont be a RBBC.How about yourself Colin (aka stalker)? Where do you stand? Let's hear it.
Jones 268 carries.Pinner 105 carries.Bryson 62 carries.See, LHUCKs, its possible to "split carries" and have a guy thats a FF producer.COlin
This probably goes without saying but I think the carries will be much more evenly distributed in TENN.
Think fast:How do you see the carries shaking out in Tenn?Or have you even thought about it?COlin
Including Injury Risk Factor:Smith: 45%Brown: 40%Other: 15%A very tough situation to put a handle on carries-wise, but that's how I see it playing out now. My apologies to the topic starter...Colin didn't mean to hijack.
 
Don't apologize for me. I most certainly did mean to hijack becuase its on topic.More to the point, I'm glad your projections, which have you so anti-Brown are more guesstimates than projections. Colin

 
Don't apologize for me. I most certainly did mean to hijack becuase its on topic.More to the point, I'm glad your projections, which have you so anti-Brown are more guesstimates than projections. Colin
"guesstimates"I didn't realize the Tennessee RBBC situation was an exact science...down to the carry :rolleyes:
 
You seem so sure of yourself, I just wanted you to "show your work". Of course, I'm not suprised that you have nothing to say...Colin

 
You seem so sure of yourself, I just wanted you to "show your work". Of course, I'm not suprised that you have nothing to say...Colin
Do you want my projection spreadsheets???Qucik math lesson for you, take those percentages and multiply them by Tenn's carries last year or by my total projected carries(don't have with)...that'll give you your exact carries numbers your seeking.Judging by your draft, I'd want them to."Nothing to say"Did you miss the 8 page post titled "Chris Brown = overhyped"...I'm pretty sure everything I have to say on the Tenn RB situation is covered there.
 
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You seem so sure of yourself, I just wanted you to "show your work". Of course, I'm not suprised that you have nothing to say...Colin
And if you want to see more of my "work" pay attention to my upcoming drafts, two of which will be covered on this site. We've all seen your "work" in the Staff/MB draft :yucky:
 
You seem so sure of yourself, I just wanted you to "show your work". Of course, I'm not suprised that you have nothing to say...Colin
Do you want my projection spreadsheets???Judging by your draft, I'd want them to."Nothing to say"Did you miss the 8 page post titled "Chris Brown = overhyped"...I'm pretty sure everything I have to say on the Tenn RB situation is covered there.
HEre's how this works:1. You act like a know it all.2. You don't back it up.3. You criticize from the sidelines.4. Rinse and repeat.Doesn't it bother you that people agreeing with you are few and far between? And not just on this - on every thread I've ever seen you in. People think your logic is faulty and your reasoning poor. You trumpet yourself as some guru of FF who can't be afforded by the top-sites, but here you are, day after day, making no sense what so ever. ANd then, when someone says, "OKay, stick your neck out.. what do you think...give me some hard numbers" you come back at me like a juvenille. Well done, keep digging.Colin
 
I wouldnt walk across the street for your projections. Chris Brown in the late 20's? Deuce McAllister '02 in the early 20's? Are you kidding? I can only imagine the "quality" understanding of football you must possess....COlin

 
1. You act like a know it all.2. You don't back it up.3.  You criticize from the sidelines.4. Rinse and repeat.Doesn't it bother you that people agreeing with you are few and far between?  And not just on this - on every thread I've ever seen you in.  People think your logic is faulty and your reasoning poor.  Well done, keep digging.Colin
This is a fishing trip and since you are on the job I'm surprised you'd go this far ...but I'll bite.Response to #1:I argue my side on topics. Where do I "act like I know it all?" I think I'm just as knowledgable on this hobby as anybody else and I back it up in leagues. At this point I would pay an exorbitant amount of money for you to compete in Survivor II just so I could hand your ### to you.Response #2:You don't like my arguments? You don't respect my proven results? This is a vague accusation? Specifics please.Response to #3:I critque everything I'm interested in here at FBG...have been for years. I also stand by those critiques. Do a little search on LHUCKS and you'll see exactly how accurate they are. Further, I just don't sit on the "sidelines"...I compete in every competitive league I can get my hands on around here. Where are you at? I'm running to get into that league so we can settle this the old fashioned way...with results?
You trumpet yourself as some guru of FF who can't be afforded by the top-sites,
Where did I call myself a "guru"? Where did I say I "can't be afforded by websites?" I can't believe you'd say something like that ...something so completely unfounded. I have had two offers to write, they didn't interest me as they were both not even close to what I'm making now...if you don't believe that so be it. I didn't even want to bring it up, but when some guy starts giving condescending posts about how to get a ff job, you better believe I'll throw that back at him.
But here you are, day after day, making no sense what so ever.  ANd then, when someone says, "OKay, stick your neck out.. what do you think...give me some hard numbers" you come back at me like a juvenille. 
I give you percentages on how I project the Tenn RBBC cluster#### while I'm working and so my response is "juvenile"???????????????I'm serious Colin....are you in a Phenoms League or another league where we can just end this right here?Your unfounded accusations and inflammatory remarks are not appreciated. Anybody can go through these threads and see that I don't do the same.
 
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Should someone come in between you two and make a bombastic remark like both Chris Brown and Kevin Jones stink....::watchoutfoOLANDISfreakingGARY::A little levity is never a bad thing.back to the argument at hand.DING! DING! :boxing:

 
No kidding. Thank goodness it's only pre pre-season. Kevin Jones certainly looks to be in the best position of the rookie backs at this early stage. And if you take him, I doubt you'd have to pay much to get Pinner as insurance. As someone else said, is all that really worth it just to lock up the Lions' running game?If I had to pick just one, it would be the rookie, I think he's the best of the Lions's bunch.

 
I'm serious Colin....are you in a Phenoms League or another league where we can just end this right here?
Hey LHUCKS,We appreciate what you add to the boards. Debating your thoughts and considering others opinions make for good discourse. This said, you can't really put any faith in this statement. One league or one season won't prove anything.I agree with Colin that your commentary has come with a bit of an edge. As long as it doesn't get too personal there won't be a problem. If we all agreed on every player these boards would die.Thanks again and best of luck this season.
 
I'm serious Colin....are you in a Phenoms League or another league where we can just end this right here?
Hey LHUCKS,We appreciate what you add to the boards. Debating your thoughts and considering others opinions make for good discourse. This said, you can't really put any faith in this statement. One league or one season won't prove anything.I agree with Colin that your commentary has come with a bit of an edge. As long as it doesn't get too personal there won't be a problem. If we all agreed on every player these boards would die.Thanks again and best of luck this season.
:own3d: Someone just got #####-slapped.
 
I'm serious Colin....are you in a Phenoms League or another league where we can just end this right here?
Hey LHUCKS,We appreciate what you add to the boards. Debating your thoughts and considering others opinions make for good discourse. This said, you can't really put any faith in this statement. One league or one season won't prove anything.I agree with Colin that your commentary has come with a bit of an edge. As long as it doesn't get too personal there won't be a problem. If we all agreed on every player these boards would die.Thanks again and best of luck this season.
Did you go back and take a look at what Colin said in the threads? I'm sure you'd agree that they came with a bit more of an "edge". I was not the attacker in this instance and the threads are my proof. If somebody is going to come after me with personal insults or at least innuendo I don't back down...even if they're staff.I tried repeatedly to keep it to ff.Please PM me with specific example if you have the time, I'd like to completely understand where I did something that was wrong. This is my fourth year on these boards and I've never had a problem.thanks,LHUCKSIn case anybody else cares: the two threads that Shick is probably referring to are this one and my "Chris Brown = overhyped" thread. Please read and let me know your unbias viewpoints on how you think this went down.
 
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While this is somewhat sad to watch, it's like a train wreck and I have to look. Gotta know if someone got hurt. Will there be a miniseries coming this fall? Maybe a FF Reality show?

 
Please PM me with specific example if you have the time, I'd like to completely understand where I did something that was wrong.
You misunderstand. Never said anything about "wrong". Also, I agree Colin has come back at you with the same attitude. The reality is that it doesn't reflect well on either of you. Feel free to criticize. Thanks again.
 
Well I'd argue that he started at me with an attitude, not the other way around as the above quote implies.Point taken though, it obviously got a little out of hand as I"ve never been involved in anything like this since I started posting here in '00. Take that for what it's worth.

 
From what I've seen in THIS thread, Colin has been much more "edgier" (if that's the word we're going to use). I think the whole thing is ridiculous, but I would think that a member of the staff would at least attempt to be a little more diplomatic in his responses. Colin was definitely the one who started this thing heading in the wrong direction. He should be issued FBG demerits if not a severe spanking from Dodds and Bryant. :yes:

 
From what I've seen in THIS thread, Colin has been much more "edgier" (if that's the word we're going to use). I think the whole thing is ridiculous, but I would think that a member of the staff would at least attempt to be a little more diplomatic in his responses. Colin was definitely the one who started this thing heading in the wrong direction. He should be issued FBG demerits if not a severe spanking from Dodds and Bryant. :yes:
:thumbup: Other neutral opinions?
 
I love Kevin Jones this year. Great talent on an improving offense. 1000/7. Talent will win out in this backfield.

 
I'm not big on spankings.TO the task at hand, I'm being "edge-y-ist" because he can take it and he's got the same silver tipped tongue to dish it back out. His points are clear, his feelings are understood, and as he's said, its not personal. From my side, I feel like I've made my point, for better or worse, as well. I'm happyto drop it and let the season play out. No offense has been meant and none has been taken, at least not here.COlin

 
This thread and the Brown thread would be great to place some strategic commercials. The viewers (5735 so far) have been overwhelmed by the arguing, er uh, discussions that have taken place.No doubt you'd get premium advertising dollars in this thread.

 
I like KJ this year, although I haven't studied up on the RB situations of their respective teams enough to claim LHUCKS or Colins level of acumen.That said, this was the ugliest exchange I have seen between a staff and non-staff in memory (which may not be saying much) in the Shark Pool. :yucky:

 
Well...... I wish I had that time back. I came here to escape my 3 and 5 year old from their whining and bickering. Oh well, I'm getting used to it.Thanks for those that added to the Lions RBBC topic. I need to know more about this situation.

 
I think what is happening here is a clash of 2 BIG doses of "gotta-be-rightus".I will agree with an earlier poster that I just can't stay away!!!!!..Oh by the way...I'll take HERD in the 7th round by TKO for a hundred. :popcorn:

 
I think what is happening here is a clash of 2 BIG doses of "gotta-be-rightus".I will agree with an earlier poster that I just can't stay away!!!!!..Oh by the way...I'll take HERD in the 7th round by TKO for a hundred. :popcorn:
I've already said, "No Mas." Our passionate discussion was getting too passionate. LHUCKS is a good guy with a lot to offer, we just happen to disagree. Its no big deal.Colin
 
I think what is happening here is a clash of 2 BIG doses of "gotta-be-rightus".I will agree with an earlier poster that I just can't stay away!!!!!..Oh by the way...I'll take HERD in the 7th round by TKO for a hundred. :popcorn:
I've already said, "No Mas." Our passionate discussion was getting too passionate. LHUCKS is a good guy with a lot to offer, we just happen to disagree. Its no big deal.Colin
Nice close Colin.
 
I think what is happening here is a clash of 2 BIG doses of "gotta-be-rightus".I will agree with an earlier poster that I just can't stay away!!!!!..Oh by the way...I'll take HERD in the 7th round by TKO for a hundred. :popcorn:
I've already said, "No Mas." Our passionate discussion was getting too passionate. LHUCKS is a good guy with a lot to offer, we just happen to disagree. Its no big deal.Colin
Agreed. I have always valued Colin's opinion and enjoy reading his insight on ff. I look forward to discussing ff with him in the future. Going forward, I'll try to be less confrontational with my opinions.
 
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I think what is happening here is a clash of 2 BIG doses of "gotta-be-rightus".I will agree with an earlier poster that I just can't stay away!!!!!..Oh by the way...I'll take HERD in the 7th round by TKO for a hundred. :popcorn:
I've already said, "No Mas." Our passionate discussion was getting too passionate. LHUCKS is a good guy with a lot to offer, we just happen to disagree. Its no big deal.Colin
Agreed. I have always valued Colin's opinion and enjoy reading his insight on ff. I look forward to discussing ff with him in the future. Going forward, I'll try to be less confrontational with my opinions.
I'm glad you guys remembered that this is just ff. Not war. Definately not worth getting angry about. Sometimes when you're passionate about something you can get a little emotional. No doubt many of us are passionate about ff and we all get excited and at times carried away. I look forward to more spirited discussions from you guys as we all learn from your insight!
 
OK now boys, Kiss and make up! Thanks for the late night entertainment. My take on the situation: Chris Brown is safe, with decent upside (#21 at worst, #13 at best), whileKJ is a bit risky, with bigger upside (#32 at worst, #10 at best).I don't plan on owing KJ, but he may be the person who wins people some championships this year. I alson don't think drafting Brown will keep people out of the playoffs, where KJ might. Anyone who thinks they KNOW how these two will play out = must have a crystal ball. With that said, one appears to be much safer than the other.

 
I'm not big on spankings.TO the task at hand, I'm being "edge-y-ist" because he can take it and he's got the same silver tipped tongue to dish it back out. His points are clear, his feelings are understood, and as he's said, its not personal. From my side, I feel like I've made my point, for better or worse, as well. I'm happyto drop it and let the season play out. No offense has been meant and none has been taken, at least not here.COlin
Wild guess. Brown owner? :sleep:
 
HEre's how this works:

1. You act like a know it all.

2. You don't back it up.

3. You criticize from the sidelines.

4. Rinse and repeat.

Doesn't it bother you that people agreeing with you are few and far between? And not just on this - on every thread I've ever seen you in. People think your logic is faulty and your reasoning poor. You trumpet yourself as some guru of FF who can't be afforded by the top-sites, but here you are, day after day, making no sense what so ever. ANd then, when someone says, "OKay, stick your neck out.. what do you think...give me some hard numbers" you come back at me like a juvenille. Well done, keep digging.

Colin
Very well said. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: This clown has had a HUGE chip on his shoulder ever since he was "omitted" from the messageboard/staff survivor.

He proceeded to totally destroy the subsequent commentary threads with his pseudo "application" for the 2005 draft. Get over it champ you weren't good enough to make the cut!

There would be at least 100 other knowledgable people I would include before your good self in a future board/staff draft, and your know it all attitude is becoming very tiring around here.

 
My take on the situation: Chris Brown is safe, with decent upside (#21 at worst, #13 at best), whileKJ is a bit risky, with bigger upside (#32 at worst, #10 at best).
So, I'll slightly disagree and say ...Chris Brown - #28 floor, #16 ceilingKevin Jones - #22 floor, #9 ceilingFood for thought though here, although I might agree that CB's value has a much higher chance of being closer to his respective ceiling. That said, I would take Jones in the mid to late 3rd where CB would have to wait until the mid 4th before I'd pull the trigger on him.
 
Where do I "act like I know it all" I think I'm just as knowledgable on this hobby as anybody else and I back it up in leagues. At this point I would pay an exorbitant amount of money for you to compete in Survivor II just so I could hand your ### to you.
If not for s'agger's NBA finals gem this line would be my new signature. As it stands I'll be putting it in my notebook and saving it for a rainy day. Observances:This thread was fun to read and all, but that's about all it's good for, comedy relief. I read a 3 page pissing contest where 2 guys each tried to defend their player and after having done so neither side has come close to convincing me that their side is any better than the other at all. On one hand you have LHUCK's who's responsible for the gem above. Also, any guy who claims to have a semblance of credibility and then throws this
Stretching: Shick...meet my friend Deshaun Foster(he's Pac-10 for starters which automatically screams STUD)
whether sarcastically or not has GOT to be fishing.Then you have Colin Dowling. Hard to tell if you want to take this guy's predictions seriously. He gets way too emotional about his side and that gets the better of him, as evident by the two sig bet losses in his signature.LHUCK's used percentages to breakdown how he thought the carries would be split amongst the Tennessee backs. Most importantly, he gave a higher percentage of the carries to Ant Smith than to Chris Brown. I don't understand what was juvenile about this reponse, and why Colin felt he needed to keep attacking it as if it were a cop out answer. You asked how the Tennessee carries would be divided, he told you how they'd be divided. LHUCK didn't give an exact number of carries but I think that's besides the point, he's saying Tennessee will be an RBBC and (right or wrong) his numbers support that.Anyway, the two appear to have kissed and made up ever since Shick came in and played peacemaker, but with how freely LHUCKS throws out personal attacks and how easy it is to get under Dowling's skin, we definetly have not seen the last of these two combatants to battle. :boxing:
 
He gets way too emotional about his side and that gets the better of him, as evident by the two sig bet losses in his signature.
has anyone ever lost more sig bets than ten times?this is a serious question.
 

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