Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (3 Viewers)

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias the perception is exactly what it's all about and more. - I live in a city where people are gunned down regularly, not one by one but in multiples, in public, even up to a score in some instances. By blacks. If black people were perceived as a "threat", if they were "feared", then there would be a very, real serious problem around here. Black people are not feared as described - "as a millions-strong army of potential killers, capable and cold enough that any single one could be a threat to a trained police officer in a bulletproof vest." And America is not "not for black people."

It is as strong or ridiculous as hyperbole as that word can get, in the classic Greek rhetorical sense, as a device meant to purposefully lead people to false conclusions. It is a leap off a step, off a flight of stairs, off a hill, off a canyon up to the moon. It is the worst kind of demagoguery. Not speaking of you, I'm speaking of the writer.

The problems highlighted by the article are people being gunned down by law enforcement. Black people being killed by other black people in large numbers is totally irrelevant to the point that the article attempts to make. Do you honestly think law enforcement doesn't have a problem with its perception of the black community? There's three examples of black people who by all accounts presented no danger to the police being shot (Brown, John Crawford, Eric Garner) in the last month. Three deaths of unarmed black men presenting no threat at the hands of law enforcement in a single month. Do you honestly think any of them would be dead if they were white? If you honestly think so, we'll have to just agree to (strongly) disagree. But assuming you don't, isn't that a problem worth highlighting?

I agree that there's a small amount of needless hyperbole in the sentence you lifted, but I don't think it defeats the premise or detracts much from the overall effectiveness of the article.

I agree let's get past it, I raised it to Tim because frankly I think the statements as conclusions of the incidents raised were outrageous.

However I do indeed see the incidents raised. I can tell you here during Katrina we had a mentally handicapped black teen crossing a bridge with his family, he was shot, killed, he and his dad were walking across the bridge to his father's dentist office to get provisions.

Also during Katrina a black man seeking help was killed by police apparently for no one knows what reason, his body was burned in his car behind a levee. Again a coverup.

Tobias, let me tell you something: local politics is UGLY in some places. The death, the corruption. In a small town like that? What do people do about it? When do they stand up in their own home town? Do they run for office? Do they demand transparency? Look in your own backyard. Do something damnit. These are real issues, but people love to talk and write about them, but it is freaking scarey, mean, bad work confronting it. It is not always about race, it is often about corruption and money.

If what they say is true in Ferguson, they ought to go digging, at the bottom of that dark, nasty woodpile there is probably money. Racism just helps keep the lights out.

Your points are well taken here. However, much of the recent militarization has been driven by federal agencies such as the DHS. Not local governments.

Yup. And I'm not sure how its relevant to the points raised by the article. There's nothing I can do locally to address the way the police treat black people. If there is, I'll do it, but thankfully those issues don't come up much where I live. Aside from some mild resentment of gentrification, we're one big happy Benetton ad.

 

[timschochet]

Good read

Tremendous article. Thanks for the link.

What is great about it? Blacks have no place in America? What a ridiculous hyperbole. Then he goes on about the militarization of the police force which played zero role in this case. The cop appears to be a thug who unjustifiably murdered a black youth and should pay for it with life in prison. But this case is no where typical of what goes on in America.

But it is. And that is the disconnect between those that agree with you, and those that agree with me.

If you were correct, and this sort of situation was not typical, then it wouldn't cause the outrage it does. If a Chinese-American teenager was shot without cause by police, do you suppose that Asian-Americans would be out in the streets protesting, with some rioting and looting? Of course not, because Asian-Americans, at least in the last 60 years or so, don't have personal experiences with police. They don't face idnigities nearly evey day of the week as blacks do. None of us who are not black (or in some cases Latino) have to go through this.

You're not a dumb guy, jon. If you're not seeing this, it's because you don't want to.

 

[matttyl]

The white guys pictured in the link where met with "anxiety and discomfort", and then with a new no-gun policy for the restaurant.

When a similar stunt/situation happened at a Jack in the Box restaurant (also done by a group of white guys), also in Texas, the employees barricaded themselves in the walk in freezer and called police, fearing they were being robbed.

So what are you suggesting the situation would have been in either case had the "demonstrators" been a different race?

I'm not just saying it, the article contains evidence of it. A black man who picked up a toy gun at a Wal-Mart was shot; white people paraded around Wal-Marts with real assault weapons and were left alone.

One was in Beavercreek, Ohio at a Wal-Mart. The other was in Texas, at a restaurant. These weren't at the same place with the same people at all. And I also wouldn't call the folks at the restaurant barricading themselves in the freezer and calling the cops for fear of being robbed "not being perceived as a threat" as you said two posts up.

Edit to add - Also, I wouldn't call a BB gun a "toy". Personally, when I hear "toy gun" I think of a plastic multicolored or even a water gun type toy. A BB gun is a bit more serious. Also, witnesses in 911 calls claim they thought he was in the process of "loading the gun". That case, which I knew nothing about until about 10 minutes ago, isn't nearly as cut and dry as the above linked article would like for it to be.

I was contrasting the Wal-Mart example with the recent open carry demonstrations at Wal-Marts, not the Chipotle example.

Sorry, didn't realize you were jumping around in your examples.

Anyway, again I hadn't heard anything about the John Crawford case until you brought it up, but I did see this just now...

"John Crawford, 22, was carrying an MK-177 (.177 caliber) BB/Pellet Rifle, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine announced Thursday." -link

So not exactly a "toy gun" as you, and the article posted above would like for it to have been.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The white guys pictured in the link where met with "anxiety and discomfort", and then with a new no-gun policy for the restaurant.

When a similar stunt/situation happened at a Jack in the Box restaurant (also done by a group of white guys), also in Texas, the employees barricaded themselves in the walk in freezer and called police, fearing they were being robbed.

So what are you suggesting the situation would have been in either case had the "demonstrators" been a different race?

I'm not just saying it, the article contains evidence of it. A black man who picked up a toy gun at a Wal-Mart was shot; white people paraded around Wal-Marts with real assault weapons and were left alone.

One was in Beavercreek, Ohio at a Wal-Mart. The other was in Texas, at a restaurant. These weren't at the same place with the same people at all. And I also wouldn't call the folks at the restaurant barricading themselves in the freezer and calling the cops for fear of being robbed "not being perceived as a threat" as you said two posts up.

Edit to add - Also, I wouldn't call a BB gun a "toy". Personally, when I hear "toy gun" I think of a plastic multicolored or even a water gun type toy. A BB gun is a bit more serious. Also, witnesses in 911 calls claim they thought he was in the process of "loading the gun". That case, which I knew nothing about until about 10 minutes ago, isn't nearly as cut and dry as the above linked article would like for it to be.

I was contrasting the Wal-Mart example with the recent open carry demonstrations at Wal-Marts, not the Chipotle example.

Sorry, didn't realize you were jumping around in your examples.

Anyway, again I hadn't heard anything about the John Crawford case until you brought it up, but I did see this just now...

"John Crawford, 22, was carrying an MK-177 (.177 caliber) BB/Pellet Rifle, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine announced Thursday."

So not exactly a "toy gun" as you, and the article posted above would like for it to have been.

Indeed. However, also not like the assault rifles carried into Wal-Marts by open carry demonstrators without incident.

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm not reading as thoroughly as I'd like, so this may have been posted recently:

Anonymous just released the dispatch and EMS audio. The officer appears to have called for crowd control, but not EMS - and did not report the shooting immediately. It would be four hours before EMS was called.

 

[matttyl]

The white guys pictured in the link where met with "anxiety and discomfort", and then with a new no-gun policy for the restaurant.

When a similar stunt/situation happened at a Jack in the Box restaurant (also done by a group of white guys), also in Texas, the employees barricaded themselves in the walk in freezer and called police, fearing they were being robbed.

So what are you suggesting the situation would have been in either case had the "demonstrators" been a different race?

I'm not just saying it, the article contains evidence of it. A black man who picked up a toy gun at a Wal-Mart was shot; white people paraded around Wal-Marts with real assault weapons and were left alone.

One was in Beavercreek, Ohio at a Wal-Mart. The other was in Texas, at a restaurant. These weren't at the same place with the same people at all. And I also wouldn't call the folks at the restaurant barricading themselves in the freezer and calling the cops for fear of being robbed "not being perceived as a threat" as you said two posts up.

Edit to add - Also, I wouldn't call a BB gun a "toy". Personally, when I hear "toy gun" I think of a plastic multicolored or even a water gun type toy. A BB gun is a bit more serious. Also, witnesses in 911 calls claim they thought he was in the process of "loading the gun". That case, which I knew nothing about until about 10 minutes ago, isn't nearly as cut and dry as the above linked article would like for it to be.

I was contrasting the Wal-Mart example with the recent open carry demonstrations at Wal-Marts, not the Chipotle example.

Sorry, didn't realize you were jumping around in your examples.

Anyway, again I hadn't heard anything about the John Crawford case until you brought it up, but I did see this just now...

"John Crawford, 22, was carrying an MK-177 (.177 caliber) BB/Pellet Rifle, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine announced Thursday."

So not exactly a "toy gun" as you, and the article posted above would like for it to have been.

Indeed. However, also not like the assault rifles carried into Wal-Marts by open carry demonstrators without incident.

Here's a picture of the gun he was apparently holding, by the way. It's not exactly a "super soaker" toy gun. From a distance, looks just like the guns from the open carry demonstrators.

Ok, and when white guys, also with assault rifles, went into a restaurant the employees called the police and locked themselves in a freezer fearing they were being robbed. No one was shot and killed, granted, but that's still an "incident".

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Tobias the perception is exactly what it's all about and more. - I live in a city where people are gunned down regularly, not one by one but in multiples, in public, even up to a score in some instances. By blacks. If black people were perceived as a "threat", if they were "feared", then there would be a very, real serious problem around here. Black people are not feared as described - "as a millions-strong army of potential killers, capable and cold enough that any single one could be a threat to a trained police officer in a bulletproof vest." And America is not "not for black people."

It is as strong or ridiculous as hyperbole as that word can get, in the classic Greek rhetorical sense, as a device meant to purposefully lead people to false conclusions. It is a leap off a step, off a flight of stairs, off a hill, off a canyon up to the moon. It is the worst kind of demagoguery. Not speaking of you, I'm speaking of the writer.

The problems highlighted by the article are people being gunned down by law enforcement. Black people being killed by other black people in large numbers is totally irrelevant to the point that the article attempts to make. Do you honestly think law enforcement doesn't have a problem with its perception of the black community? There's three examples of black people who by all accounts presented no danger to the police being shot (Brown, John Crawford, Eric Garner) in the last month. Three deaths of unarmed black men presenting no threat at the hands of law enforcement in a single month. Do you honestly think any of them would be dead if they were white? If you honestly think so, we'll have to just agree to (strongly) disagree. But assuming you don't, isn't that a problem worth highlighting?

I agree that there's a small amount of needless hyperbole in the sentence you lifted, but I don't think it defeats the premise or detracts much from the overall effectiveness of the article.

I agree let's get past it, I raised it to Tim because frankly I think the statements as conclusions of the incidents raised were outrageous.

However I do indeed see the incidents raised. I can tell you here during Katrina we had a mentally handicapped black teen crossing a bridge with his family, he was shot, killed, he and his dad were walking across the bridge to his father's dentist office to get provisions.

Also during Katrina a black man seeking help was killed by police apparently for no one knows what reason, his body was burned in his car behind a levee. Again a coverup.

Tobias, let me tell you something: local politics is UGLY in some places. The death, the corruption. In a small town like that? What do people do about it? When do they stand up in their own home town? Do they run for office? Do they demand transparency? Look in your own backyard. Do something damnit. These are real issues, but people love to talk and write about them, but it is freaking scarey, mean, bad work confronting it. It is not always about race, it is often about corruption and money.

If what they say is true in Ferguson, they ought to go digging, at the bottom of that dark, nasty woodpile there is probably money. Racism just helps keep the lights out.

Your points are well taken here. However, much of the recent militarization has been driven by federal agencies such as the DHS. Not local governments.

Yup. And I'm not sure how its relevant to the points raised by the article. There's nothing I can do locally to address the way the police treat black people. If there is, I'll do it, but thankfully those issues don't come up much where I live. Aside from some mild resentment of gentrification, we're one big happy Benetton ad.

I'm talking about Ferguson. I'm sure problems like this are faaarrr away from where you live.

Ferguson is over 2/3's black, yet they have a white mayor, a white city manager and a white police chief. NTTAWT. But for starters what have these people doing at election time?

 

[roadkill1292]

Good read

Tremendous article. Thanks for the link.

I'm a firm believer that the military is exactly what we need to put a stop to the violence in South Chicago and such....Nothing else has ever worked.

Neither will your idea.

And we know this because?

Armed occupation by enemy forces -- and for the residents of South Chicago and Ferguson that's exactly what the military would be -- has rarely been the cure for social unrest throughout history.

I really don't know how anyone with an ounce of empathy can't see this.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias the perception is exactly what it's all about and more. - I live in a city where people are gunned down regularly, not one by one but in multiples, in public, even up to a score in some instances. By blacks. If black people were perceived as a "threat", if they were "feared", then there would be a very, real serious problem around here. Black people are not feared as described - "as a millions-strong army of potential killers, capable and cold enough that any single one could be a threat to a trained police officer in a bulletproof vest." And America is not "not for black people."

It is as strong or ridiculous as hyperbole as that word can get, in the classic Greek rhetorical sense, as a device meant to purposefully lead people to false conclusions. It is a leap off a step, off a flight of stairs, off a hill, off a canyon up to the moon. It is the worst kind of demagoguery. Not speaking of you, I'm speaking of the writer.

The problems highlighted by the article are people being gunned down by law enforcement. Black people being killed by other black people in large numbers is totally irrelevant to the point that the article attempts to make. Do you honestly think law enforcement doesn't have a problem with its perception of the black community? There's three examples of black people who by all accounts presented no danger to the police being shot (Brown, John Crawford, Eric Garner) in the last month. Three deaths of unarmed black men presenting no threat at the hands of law enforcement in a single month. Do you honestly think any of them would be dead if they were white? If you honestly think so, we'll have to just agree to (strongly) disagree. But assuming you don't, isn't that a problem worth highlighting?

I agree that there's a small amount of needless hyperbole in the sentence you lifted, but I don't think it defeats the premise or detracts much from the overall effectiveness of the article.

I agree let's get past it, I raised it to Tim because frankly I think the statements as conclusions of the incidents raised were outrageous.

However I do indeed see the incidents raised. I can tell you here during Katrina we had a mentally handicapped black teen crossing a bridge with his family, he was shot, killed, he and his dad were walking across the bridge to his father's dentist office to get provisions.

Also during Katrina a black man seeking help was killed by police apparently for no one knows what reason, his body was burned in his car behind a levee. Again a coverup.

Tobias, let me tell you something: local politics is UGLY in some places. The death, the corruption. In a small town like that? What do people do about it? When do they stand up in their own home town? Do they run for office? Do they demand transparency? Look in your own backyard. Do something damnit. These are real issues, but people love to talk and write about them, but it is freaking scarey, mean, bad work confronting it. It is not always about race, it is often about corruption and money.

If what they say is true in Ferguson, they ought to go digging, at the bottom of that dark, nasty woodpile there is probably money. Racism just helps keep the lights out.

Your points are well taken here. However, much of the recent militarization has been driven by federal agencies such as the DHS. Not local governments.

Yup. And I'm not sure how its relevant to the points raised by the article. There's nothing I can do locally to address the way the police treat black people. If there is, I'll do it, but thankfully those issues don't come up much where I live. Aside from some mild resentment of gentrification, we're one big happy Benetton ad.

I'm talking about Ferguson. I'm sure problems like this are faaarrr away from where you live.

Ferguson is over 2/3's black, yet they have a white mayor, a white city manager and a white police chief. NTTAWT. But for starters what have these people doing at election time?

Ah, I see what you're saying.

I'm guessing a lot of them don't think their campaign efforts would be rewarded or their votes would be tallied. Can't say I blame them much for not trusting authority. And this goes to the problem highlighted in the article; it's a vicious circle.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Following #ferguson on twitter, some people are justifying it because the stores being looted never give anything back to the community and that's what insurance is for.

They protested peacefully for 3 hours, but swat teams were brought in. That angered them and got the looting started.

A police officers house was reported to be burned down, so that one is easier to understand.

lol...what a bunch of idiots; they give back to the community just by virtue of being there. They provide jobs for people who live in the community and access to buy stuff. All stuff that people take for granted.

There have been protests because some areas of the city don't have grocery stores, gas stations etc. Actual scary parts of the city, not like Ferguson. People suck.

Well, congrats, now there will be even less options for these poor, poor people. I know some people are like...whatever, insurance will pay for it....but anyone with even half a brain knows that when a claim is put in, the rates skyrocket. So I guess we will see if it is worth it to pull this kind of crap.

It will be interesting to see if the people arrested actually live in Ferguson. I'm guessing most don't.

7 out of 9 DON'T live in Ferguson.

Have fun you bunch of racist ####s.

 

[jonessed]

Good read

Tremendous article. Thanks for the link.

What is great about it? Blacks have no place in America? What a ridiculous hyperbole. Then he goes on about the militarization of the police force which played zero role in this case. The cop appears to be a thug who unjustifiably murdered a black youth and should pay for it with life in prison. But this case is no where typical of what goes on in America.

But it is. And that is the disconnect between those that agree with you, and those that agree with me.If you were correct, and this sort of situation was not typical, then it wouldn't cause the outrage it does. If a Chinese-American teenager was shot without cause by police, do you suppose that Asian-Americans would be out in the streets protesting, with some rioting and looting? Of course not, because Asian-Americans, at least in the last 60 years or so, don't have personal experiences with police. They don't face idnigities nearly evey day of the week as blacks do. None of us who are not black (or in some cases Latino) have to go through this.

You're not a dumb guy, jon. If you're not seeing this, it's because you don't want to.

There was an Asian-American shot by a cop in Lodi a few months ago that sparked protests.

Small Sikh community though so they aren't going to be able to grab the manpower for a free-for-all. Not that they would anyway.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Following #ferguson on twitter, some people are justifying it because the stores being looted never give anything back to the community and that's what insurance is for.

They protested peacefully for 3 hours, but swat teams were brought in. That angered them and got the looting started.

A police officers house was reported to be burned down, so that one is easier to understand.

lol...what a bunch of idiots; they give back to the community just by virtue of being there. They provide jobs for people who live in the community and access to buy stuff. All stuff that people take for granted.

There have been protests because some areas of the city don't have grocery stores, gas stations etc. Actual scary parts of the city, not like Ferguson. People suck.

Well, congrats, now there will be even less options for these poor, poor people. I know some people are like...whatever, insurance will pay for it....but anyone with even half a brain knows that when a claim is put in, the rates skyrocket. So I guess we will see if it is worth it to pull this kind of crap.

It will be interesting to see if the people arrested actually live in Ferguson. I'm guessing most don't.

7 out of 9 DON'T live in Ferguson.

Have fun you bunch of racist ####s.

Hardened criminals here.

The following suspects were charged with felony burglary for breaking into Princess Beauty Supply, 6911 West Florissant Road, for the purpose of stealing:

• Beonca McGrath, 19, 4400 block of Jennings Station Road, Pine Lawn. She also was charged with misdemeanor stealing for being in possession of a hair weave.

One man was charged with felony burglary for breaking into the Nu Fashion Beauty Supply, 7525 West Florissant Road:

• DeMarco Harris, 38, of the 1200 block of Gimblin, St. Louis. He also was charged with misdemeanor stealing for possessing a hair weave when arrested.

I guess that last guy was shopping for his girlfriend.

Because what better way to speak out about injustice and violation of Constitutional rights than stealing hair care products.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

If a Chinese-American teenager was shot without cause by police, do you suppose that Asian-Americans would be out in the streets protesting, with some rioting and looting? Of course not, because Asian-Americans, at least in the last 60 years or so, don't have personal experiences with police.

That's not the most prominent reason why there is far less likelihood of rioting and looting among Asian-Americans.

There's a considerable difference in propensity toward violence between a subsection of the African-American community compared to the Asian-American community. For instance, I live in Indiana. Indianapolis annualy holds a Black Expo weekend. It's supposed to be a fun family gathering for a predominantly African-American crowd, but that event is annually marred by violence from young African-American males looking to create trouble (link). It's these pockets of havoc bent young African-American men, not all African-Americans, who loot and riot during protests. Comparable pockets of young Asian-American men looking to create havoc are far more rare. This dynamic has little to do with personal experience with police.

You suggest that most African-Americans have had negative experiences with the police, and that may be true. If negative personal experiences with the police was the primary reason for looting and rioting, though, then wouldn't more African-Americans be rioting and looting?

 

[Greggity]

Actually, I have said all I have to say on this. I have made my point that the looters are a bunch of dirtbags who deserve some form of intense punishment. I am just going to say a few prayers for the people who actually have to live in those sh*tty neighborhoods who will be looked at as looters just because they are black, for the cops who are looked at as racist pigs just because a few of them are terrible people, and also for the intellectually misguided who possess a stock instinct to reduce anyone who does not agree with their limited and nuanced perspective to a simple bigot.

In any case, I forgive you all. Not kidding about that. Sorry for reducing you to simple minded dipwads, I am sure you are better than that too.

Obama is still a twit, though.

Oh this rocked!!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm not reading as thoroughly as I'd like, so this may have been posted recently:

Anonymous just released the dispatch and EMS audio. The officer appears to have called for crowd control, but not EMS - and did not report the shooting immediately. It would be four hours before EMS was called.

That's incredibly damning.

 

[Todd Andrews]

The militarization of our police since around 1980 as a result of the drug war is sickening. The racial disparity in criminal sentencing and criminal law enforcement is disgusting. The use of drug laws and other behavior criminalization to disenfranchise minority voters in this country is vile. The fact that blacks and whites use and sell drugs at very similar rates but blacks are incarcerated for drug crimes at incredibly higher rates is another form of Jim Crow laws. The fact that we underpay, underfund and undereducate our law enforcement officers causes us to have many of the wrong people doing those jobs, and leads to incredibly bad situations like rural and small town police departments funding themselves through asset forfeiture. And where we are spending money on law enforcement isnt on education or other productive areas, it is on heavy armaments and more prisons to fill with more Americans.

I am not surprised that people are protesting in Ferguson. I would be, too. The cops in Ferguson are covered in body armor and standing there with rifles and machine guns pointed at US citizens who are doing nothing wrong. We have created a situation in this country where the average citizen should not trust law enforcement or the so-called "justice system".

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm not reading as thoroughly as I'd like, so this may have been posted recently:

Anonymous just released the dispatch and EMS audio. The officer appears to have called for crowd control, but not EMS - and did not report the shooting immediately. It would be four hours before EMS was called.

That's incredibly damning.

I was wondering if anyone would notice that link.

 

[Todd Andrews]

What's the theory of the victim's supporters here, the cop was just plain, mean, evil and decided to take the kid out?

Basically, yeah. There are a very large number of police officers in the US. Some of them have power issues, and basic statistics guarantees that a certain percentage of them will be mentally unhinged. It's not that far-fetched to entertain the possibility that this cop was one of those guys.

After telling the officer that they were almost at their destination, Johnson’s house, the two continued walking. But as they did, Johnson says the officer slammed his brakes and threw his truck in reverse, nearly hitting them.

Now, in line with the officer’s driver’s side door, they could see the officer’s face. They heard him say something to the effect of, “what’d you say?” At the same time, Johnson says the officer attempted to thrust his door open but the door slammed into Brown and bounced closed. Johnson says the officer, with his left hand, grabbed Brown by the neck.

“I could see the muscles in his forearm,” Johnson said. “Mike was trying to get away from being choked.”

“They’re not wrestling so much as his arm went from his throat to now clenched on his shirt,” Johnson explained of the scene between Brown and the officer. “It’s like tug of war. He’s trying to pull him in. He’s pulling away, that’s when I heard, ‘I’m gonna shoot you.’”

At that moment, Johnson says he fixed his gaze on the officer to see if he was pulling a stun gun or a real gun. That’s when he saw the muzzle of the officer’s gun.

“I seen the barrel of the gun pointed at my friend,” he said. “He had it pointed at him and said ‘I’ll shoot,’ one more time.”

A second later Johnson said he heard the first shot go off.

“I seen the fire come out of the barrell,” he said. “I could see so vividly what was going on because I was so close.”

Johnson says he was within arm’s reach of both Brown and the officer. He looked over at Brown and saw blood pooling through his shirt on the right side of the body.

“The whole time [the officer] was holding my friend until the gun went off,” Johnson noted.

Brown and Johnson took off running together.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

Well I guess that's it then.

This part of the eyewitness story probably has a lot to do with the outrage

Brown made it past the third car. Then, “blam!” the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back. At that point, Johnson says Brown stopped, turned with his hands up and said “I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!”

Yeah, I'll post the rest:

“The whole time [the officer] was holding my friend until the gun went off,” Johnson noted.

Brown and Johnson took off running together. There were three cars lined up along the side of the street. Johnson says he ducked behind the first car, whose two passengers were screaming. Crouching down a bit, he watched Brown run past.

“Keep running, bro!,” he said Brown yelled. Then Brown yelled it a second time. Those would be the last words Johnson’s friend, “Big Mike,” would ever say to him.

Brown made it past the third car. Then, “blam!” the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back. At that point, Johnson says Brown stopped, turned with his hands up and said “I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!”


By that point, Johnson says the officer and Brown were face-to-face. The officer then fired several more shots. Johnson described watching Brown go from standing with his hands up to crumbling to the ground and curling into a fetal position.

...

There has been some terrible stuff done by cops here in NO. The feds have actually planted a monitor inside the police force, the NOPD itself (and the parish jail also) is under federal oversight by consent decree - which I agree with and am happy about. This series of events, if true as told, is awful. What has to happen here is absolute transparency within that Ferguson police force. Take a look at everything, their finances, their record keeping and crime stats, past convictions, everything.

Years ago, the Lt. (now retired) in charge of the 2d District (Uptown New Orleans) told me in a moment of candor (drunken) that if they werent NOPD, that half of his around 50 officers belonged in jail.

 

[timschochet]

If a Chinese-American teenager was shot without cause by police, do you suppose that Asian-Americans would be out in the streets protesting, with some rioting and looting? Of course not, because Asian-Americans, at least in the last 60 years or so, don't have personal experiences with police.

That's not the most prominent reason why there is far less likelihood of rioting and looting among Asian-Americans.

There's a considerable difference in propensity toward violence between a subsection of the African-American community compared to the Asian-American community. For instance, I live in Indiana. Indianapolis annualy holds a Black Expo weekend. It's supposed to be a fun family gathering for a predominantly African-American crowd, but that event is annually marred by violence from young African-American males looking to create trouble (link). It's these pockets of havoc bent young African-American men, not all African-Americans, who loot and riot during protests. Comparable pockets of young Asian-American men looking to create havoc are far more rare. This dynamic has little to do with personal experience with police.

You suggest that most African-Americans have had negative experiences with the police, and that may be true. If negative personal experiences with the police was the primary reason for looting and rioting, though, then wouldn't more African-Americans be rioting and looting?

No, because most people are law-abiding.

As to the bolded, I believe you're wrong.

 

[MAC_32]

Wesley Lowerys timeline is kinda nuts right now.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Good read

Tremendous article. Thanks for the link.

What a "great" picture, this will do more wonders for our world rep.

The United States of America is not for black people.

To ascribe this entirely to contempt for black men is to miss an essential variable, though—a very real, American fear of them. They—we—are inexplicably seen as a millions-strong army of potential killers, capable and cold enough that any single one could be a threat to a trained police officer in a bulletproof vest.

Come on.

For such a smart guy, you seem incredibly naive and uninformed on some really simple facts about America.

 

[DocHolliday]

Seriously? Do you have comprehension of US history?

Convenient that you avoided my second question. Seriously?

This was your second question, right?

Why can't more blacks move out of their bad neighborhoods?

I assume he "avoided" it because he didn't think it was a serious question. It's not a serious question, is it? Please tell me it's not.

So now two of you are going to avoid the question. Eventually, one of you will have to provide us with your wisdom.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Seriously? Do you have comprehension of US history?

Convenient that you avoided my second question. Seriously?

This was your second question, right?

Why can't more blacks move out of their bad neighborhoods?

I assume he "avoided" it because he didn't think it was a serious question. It's not a serious question, is it? Please tell me it's not.

So now two of you are going to avoid the question. Eventually, one of you will have to provide us with your wisdom.

Your question is brilliant. Thank you for asking us because in the asking you have shared your vast wisdom. The light now reaches the dim bulb.

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/08/11/police-officers-arent-the-ones-destroying-the-black-community/

 

[Limp Ditka]

CNN captures officer taunting: "Bring it. All you ####### animals. Bring it."

link

How can you blame him? Look at what he's in the middle of....what he's up against. People are going to be offended by bad words here?

When a cop refers to humans as animals, he has performed the job of judge and jury. That's not his his assignment.

To serve and protect, not judge.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge what someone says in the extremely dangerous and out of the ordinary situation these guys are in right now.

That's because you say dumb #### from the comforts of your home.

 

[Todd Andrews]

http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/08/11/police-officers-arent-the-ones-destroying-the-black-community/

Wildly simplistic and shallow. Not interesting when someone makes these types of bold and unique statements:


"a just and civilized society needs laws, and laws need to be enforced, and police officers are entrusted with that noble and necessary task."

This guy misses the entire point of what is happening in Ferguson and his whole article can be summed up as "cops arent all bad, and dont loot".

No duh.

 

[fatness]

I'm not reading as thoroughly as I'd like, so this may have been posted recently:

Anonymous just released the dispatch and EMS audio. The officer appears to have called for crowd control, but not EMS - and did not report the shooting immediately. It would be four hours before EMS was called.

Thanks for posting that. From the description

We are Anonymous.

These files compiled in this video contains audio of St. Louis police dispatch from the date of August 9th 2014, the day Mike Brown was murdered by a Ferguson PD officer. We have released these tapes to the public so as they are able to get a sense of the atmosphere the moments before and the hours after Mike Brown was shot.

These raw audio files have been compiled and long quiet moments have been cut down. Time stamps are available within the video.

Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/theanonaudio/f...

Incident begins at around noon..(9:08 time stamp)

ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DISPATCH AUDIO TAPES, AUGUST 9TH 2014 11:05 AM - 6:05 PM, INCIDENT IS REPORTED AS "CROWD CONTROL PROBLEM" AT 12:05PM, NO SHOOTING MENTIONED UNTIL IT IS CALLED IN TO DISPATCH BY WITNESS. FERGUSON PD DENIES IT KNEW ANYTHING AT THAT TIME. NO EMS WAS CALLED.

 

[[icon]]

Good read

Tremendous article. Thanks for the link.

What a "great" picture, this will do more wonders for our world rep.

The United States of America is not for black people.

To ascribe this entirely to contempt for black men is to miss an essential variable, thougha very real, American fear of them. Theyweare inexplicably seen as a millions-strong army of potential killers, capable and cold enough that any single one could be a threat to a trained police officer in a bulletproof vest.

Come on.

I understand why you might think that's overdramatic. But on the other hand can you come up with any other reasonable explanation as to why we tolerate white people walking around Wal-Marts with assault weapons while a black man gets gunned down for picking up a toy gun that was actually for sale in the store? Do you honestly think that if two black guys walked into a Chipotle with assault weapons they would have been greeted the same way as the white guys pictured in that link? Those are the examples used to support the statement that you edited out of the cut and paste above.

Can start with this data from "color of crime":

"When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun"

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

Can't speak to veracity of the study but it does reflect a common perception (and possibly truth?) that a black man openly possessing a firearm is very likely to be committing or about to commit a crime. A white man openly possessing a firearm is far more likely to be using that weapon for sport or self defense.

Assuming this data is true: If black people wish to stop being perceived in this manner, they would be wise to stop perpetuating it via high rates of gun crime.

This does NOT factor in random spree shootings (tend to be white males), though they are blips on the radar compared to overall gun crime.

THIS IS NOT intended to justify excessive force by police. It's bull#### and the officers need to be held accountable. I was merely addressing the pie in the sky tone of the article.

 

[eurotrashman]

Hey look, it's the most passive-aggressive racist on FBG.

 

[fatness]

Ferguson is over 2/3's black, yet they have a white mayor, a white city manager and a white police chief. NTTAWT. But for starters what have these people doing at election time?

Yes, I know that the voting habits of black people in Ferguson are a burning local and national issue. Glad you're taking the lead in digging deep to find out what they're doing wrong.

Apparently a cop in Ferguson shot an unarmed guy in the street a little while ago. Did you hear about that?

It's just odd. Both happening in Ferguson --- a cop shooting an unarmed guy, and how black people are voting wrong. And both are equally important to you.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Wesley Lowerys timeline is kinda nuts right now.

Seems a little exaggerated. There was a 20 min gap in their timeline. Huff post changed the time of their last tweet announcing they were released to tomorrow's date in their story recapping the incident.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Hey look, it's the most passive-aggressive racist on FBG.

He's got his glock on the nightstand just in case teh blax come from the Mizzouri.

He actually called Peens a hillbilly, lol.

 

[eurotrashman]

Hey look, it's the most passive-aggressive racist on FBG.

He's got his glock on the nightstand just in case teh blax come from the Mizzouri. He actually called Peens a hillbilly, lol.

Classic!

 

[MAC_32]

Wesley Lowerys timeline is kinda nuts right now.

Seems a little exaggerated. There was a 20 min gap in their timeline. Huff post changed the time of their last tweet announcing they were released to tomorrow's date in their story recapping the incident.

probably is, didn't start raising eye brows til I saw others calling police for questions about it and the police's responses indicate they realize some guys screwed up. Bad.In any event, not a good look, guys.

 

[Quez]

Seeing stuff on my timeline about rubber bullets, sound cannons, tear gas, etc.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Wesley Lowerys timeline is kinda nuts right now.

Seems a little exaggerated. There was a 20 min gap in their timeline. Huff post changed the time of their last tweet announcing they were released to tomorrow's date in their story recapping the incident.

probably is, didn't start raising eye brows til I saw others calling police for questions about it and the police's responses indicate they realize some guys screwed up. Bad.In any event, not a good look, guys.

I guess it depends who you follow and what spin they're putting out. Huff Post is retweeting a lot of tweets that tell the story a certain way, and some others I follow are debunking and correcting those same tweets. I'm sure like always, it's somewhere in the middle.

 

[eurotrashman]

Fox is covering this, right?

 

[eurotrashman]

Wesley Lowerys timeline is kinda nuts right now.

Seems a little exaggerated. There was a 20 min gap in their timeline. Huff post changed the time of their last tweet announcing they were released to tomorrow's date in their story recapping the incident.

probably is, didn't start raising eye brows til I saw others calling police for questions about it and the police's responses indicate they realize some guys screwed up. Bad.In any event, not a good look, guys.

I guess it depends who you follow and what spin they're putting out. Huff Post is retweeting a lot of tweets that tell the story a certain way, and some others I follow are debunking and correcting those same tweets. I'm sure like always, it's somewhere in the middle.

Who are some the people you are following? Would love to get the opinion of both sides.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Wesley Lowerys timeline is kinda nuts right now.

Seems a little exaggerated. There was a 20 min gap in their timeline.Huff post changed the time of their last tweet announcing they were released to tomorrow's date in their story recapping the incident.

probably is, didn't start raising eye brows til I saw others calling police for questions about it and the police's responses indicate they realize some guys screwed up. Bad.In any event, not a good look, guys.

I guess it depends who you follow and what spin they're putting out. Huff Post is retweeting a lot of tweets that tell the story a certain way, and some others I follow are debunking and correcting those same tweets.I'm sure like always, it's somewhere in the middle.

What "in the middle" do you think exists? I just heard Ryan and Lowery interviewed about the incident and they both claimed that they were roughed up a little, detained, cuffed, and put in a cell. And then they both claim that a while later they were magically let go with no paperwork and they were consistently refused when they asked for the names of the arresting officers.

What do you think might have happened differently?

 

[MAC_32]

Wesley Lowerys timeline is kinda nuts right now.

Seems a little exaggerated. There was a 20 min gap in their timeline. Huff post changed the time of their last tweet announcing they were released to tomorrow's date in their story recapping the incident.

probably is, didn't start raising eye brows til I saw others calling police for questions about it and the police's responses indicate they realize some guys screwed up. Bad.In any event, not a good look, guys.

I guess it depends who you follow and what spin they're putting out. Huff Post is retweeting a lot of tweets that tell the story a certain way, and some others I follow are debunking and correcting those same tweets. I'm sure like always, it's somewhere in the middle.

Who are some the people you are following? Would love to get the opinion of both sides.

me too

 

[fatness]

2 reporters were in a McDonalds. A police SWAT team came in an arrested them; one reporter claims they assaulted him The reporters were later released, at least one of them with no paperwork, no charges, and not being given the names of the officers involved.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2014/08/13/washington-post-reporter-wesley-lowery-arrested-ferguson/HZT5nQ24ok8XFukceoZ4SJ/story.html

Lowery, a former Boston Globe reporter, elaborated on his alleged assault by police:

Officers slammed me into a fountain soda machine because I was confused about which door they were asking me to walk out of

— Wesley Lowery (@WesleyLowery) August 14, 2014

...and other observations he made in custody:

Was waiting to be taken away, large black man SCREAMING for help in back of police truck

— Wesley Lowery (@WesleyLowery) August 14, 2014



"I'm dying. I'm dying. Please call help he screamed." They mocked him

— Wesley Lowery (@WesleyLowery) August 14, 2014

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I think the #### that's going down in Ferguson tonight is going to end up being much bigger than anyone knows today.

 

[MAC_32]

I think the #### that's going down in Ferguson tonight is going to end up being much bigger than anyone knows today.

trying not to jump to conclusions, but based on what I've been reading the last few days I'm getting the same feeling. Police are cited as the problem by the community and they are doing what they can to support that narrative. Anyone see what the police chiefs wife allegedly posted on Facebook? Ignorant stuff.

 

[DocHolliday]

Seriously? Do you have comprehension of US history?

Convenient that you avoided my second question. Seriously?

This was your second question, right?

Why can't more blacks move out of their bad neighborhoods?

I assume he "avoided" it because he didn't think it was a serious question. It's not a serious question, is it? Please tell me it's not.

So now two of you are going to avoid the question. Eventually, one of you will have to provide us with your wisdom.

Your question is brilliant. Thank you for asking us because in the asking you have shared your vast wisdom. The light now reaches the dim bulb.

You are wrong again. The light has not reached your dim bulb.

You cannot answer the question. You simply avoid. You are a joke and a coward.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

So is this the thread where a bunch of white guys who live nowhere near Ferguson (or any other black community) talk about things they really don't know anything about?

 

[timschochet]

Good read

Tremendous article. Thanks for the link.

What a "great" picture, this will do more wonders for our world rep.

The United States of America is not for black people.

To ascribe this entirely to contempt for black men is to miss an essential variable, thougha very real, American fear of them. Theyweare inexplicably seen as a millions-strong army of potential killers, capable and cold enough that any single one could be a threat to a trained police officer in a bulletproof vest.

Come on.

I understand why you might think that's overdramatic. But on the other hand can you come up with any other reasonable explanation as to why we tolerate white people walking around Wal-Marts with assault weapons while a black man gets gunned down for picking up a toy gun that was actually for sale in the store? Do you honestly think that if two black guys walked into a Chipotle with assault weapons they would have been greeted the same way as the white guys pictured in that link? Those are the examples used to support the statement that you edited out of the cut and paste above.

Can start with this data from "color of crime":

"When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun"

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

Can't speak to veracity of the study but it does reflect a common perception (and possibly truth?) that a black man openly possessing a firearm is very likely to be committing or about to commit a crime. A white man openly possessing a firearm is far more likely to be using that weapon for sport or self defense.

Assuming this data is true: If black people wish to stop being perceived in this manner, they would be wise to stop perpetuating it via high rates of gun crime.

This does NOT factor in random spree shootings (tend to be white males), though they are blips on the radar compared to overall gun crime.

THIS IS NOT intended to justify excessive force by police. It's bull#### and the officers need to be held accountable. I was merely addressing the pie in the sky tone of the article.

The bolded enforces the worst kind of racial stereotypes.

 

[The Flying Elvis]

Apparently live reports and cameras are not being allowed in Ferguson. They have told news trucks to leave etc. Crazy stuff.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Seriously? Do you have comprehension of US history?

Convenient that you avoided my second question. Seriously?

This was your second question, right?

Why can't more blacks move out of their bad neighborhoods?

I assume he "avoided" it because he didn't think it was a serious question. It's not a serious question, is it? Please tell me it's not.

So now two of you are going to avoid the question. Eventually, one of you will have to provide us with your wisdom.

Your question is brilliant. Thank you for asking us because in the asking you have shared your vast wisdom. The light now reaches the dim bulb.

You are wrong again. The light has not reached your dim bulb.

You cannot answer the question. You simply avoid. You are a joke and a coward.

You are a Zen Master. In your brilliance you teach us that the answer IS the question.

 

[Slapdash]

I think the #### that's going down in Ferguson tonight is going to end up being much bigger than anyone knows today.

I doubt that it will, but the police are determined to push the envelope.

 

[[icon]]

Good read

Tremendous article. Thanks for the link.

What a "great" picture, this will do more wonders for our world rep.

The United States of America is not for black people.

To ascribe this entirely to contempt for black men is to miss an essential variable, thougha very real, American fear of them. Theyweare inexplicably seen as a millions-strong army of potential killers, capable and cold enough that any single one could be a threat to a trained police officer in a bulletproof vest.

Come on.

I understand why you might think that's overdramatic. But on the other hand can you come up with any other reasonable explanation as to why we tolerate white people walking around Wal-Marts with assault weapons while a black man gets gunned down for picking up a toy gun that was actually for sale in the store? Do you honestly think that if two black guys walked into a Chipotle with assault weapons they would have been greeted the same way as the white guys pictured in that link? Those are the examples used to support the statement that you edited out of the cut and paste above.

Can start with this data from "color of crime":"When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun"

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

Can't speak to veracity of the study but it does reflect a common perception (and possibly truth?) that a black man openly possessing a firearm is very likely to be committing or about to commit a crime. A white man openly possessing a firearm is far more likely to be using that weapon for sport or self defense.

Assuming this data is true: If black people wish to stop being perceived in this manner, they would be wise to stop perpetuating it via high rates of gun crime.

This does NOT factor in random spree shootings (tend to be white males), though they are blips on the radar compared to overall gun crime.

THIS IS NOT intended to justify excessive force by police. It's bull#### and the officers need to be held accountable. I was merely addressing the pie in the sky tone of the article.

The bolded enforces the worst kind of racial stereotypes.

If it's not based on fact I agree 100pct. I don't have the data in front of me to verify or not.

It does suck when innocent folks are caught up in the wake of others actions... As what seems to be the case here :(

Hope these cops are locked up for good if the eyewitness are correct.