Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (3 Viewers)

[jonessed]

I think it's safe to assume the officer heard a report of the theft over the radio.

Given the suspect's atypical size, there was certainly reasonable suspicion to stop and question Brown.

I'm not sure what you mean. The police admitted the stop was unrelated several days ago and as far as I know there's been no evidence to the contrary since then.

I had heard that statement but didn't know how concrete it was. It seems a ton of "facts" in this case have been turned on their head in the last few days. If that has still held true then all good. Regardless, kid's size/attire/proximity would have been more than enough to evoke reasonable suspicion.

Reasonable suspicion of what? Again, the initial stop was unrelated to the robbery. That's pretty much the only detail that has gone unrefuted in this whole thing. Who cares if some hypothetical officer could have heard the report and IDed the victim as the suspect and stopped him for that reason. The actual officer didn't do that. He stopped him because he was walking in the middle of the street. End of story.

It was unrelated to the initial stop. There have been conflicting statements about whether the officer knew about it though. It's possible that at some point during the stop he realized they matched the description.

I imagine this will be cleared up in time.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

This is not a proper reaction to American citizens

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1393696/mike-brown.jpg

How are those black kneepads just floating in the air?

which ones?

All of them! Just floating in the trees.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Anybody that thinks a robbery that occurred 10 minutes before is completely irrelevant is obviously biased.

 

[fatness]

The same witness (who has obviously reason to be biased in his report) who says the was running away, when off camera witnesses and autopsy reports indicate he actually was charging the police?

Which autopsy did you read that said he was charging police?

Are you referring to the video with all the different background voices, onto which someone added subtitles for one off-camera voice?

The whole "charging the officer" bit stems from those subtitles, and from an account of the event by someone who wasn't there who supposedly gave the officer's version of events.

 

[kentric]

Couple of things interesting in that article I think:

Shawn Parcells, a forensic pathologist who assisted Dr Baden, said a wound to Mr Brown's right arm may have been sustained as he had his hands up, "but we don't know".

He said the wound was consistent either with having his back to the officer or facing the officer with his hands above his head or in a defensive position.

and

Dr Baden said there were no signs of a struggle, as abrasions around the teenager's face were likely from falling to the pavement after being shot.

I think the struggle is the only thing consistent in just about every story.

Maybe he meant there were no abrasions on his face. I'd like to hear about his knuckles as the P.O.'s face was said to be a bit beaten up.

 

[fantasycurse42]

This is not a proper reaction to American citizens

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1393696/mike-brown.jpg

How are those black kneepads just floating in the air?

which ones?

All of them! Just floating in the trees.

Are they in the trees or the air?

 

[Fennis]

This is not a proper reaction to American citizens

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1393696/mike-brown.jpg

How are those black kneepads just floating in the air?

which ones?

All of them! Just floating in the trees.

sometimes I'm a little slow

 

[fourd]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .

I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

I wonder how much departments would save with the reduction in complaints and not having to investigate/defend/settle claims at the rate some do now?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

 

[TheIronSheik]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

Agreed 100%. I'd be all for widespread adoption of body cameras on officers assuming it doesn't impede their normal efforts (not sure why it would).

My only concern would be an increase in "baiting" attempts by malicious individuals looking to get cops to act up on tape for personal or financial gain. Benefits would still outweigh the negatives, but just throwing that out there.

But this is where I think it would actually help the officers. Instead of seeing a video someone made that starts where it may not look good for the cop, we'd get to see the whole encounter.

 

[Fennis]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .

I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

Little low there dude. Camera also then feeds back to the VPU for storage in the car before it uploads to the server.

It's over 5 grand per if you want a reliable system that prevents a defense lawyer from saying you tampered with the video.

maybe the PD should sell a tank or two to raise the money.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I think it's safe to assume the officer heard a report of the theft over the radio.

Given the suspect's atypical size, there was certainly reasonable suspicion to stop and question Brown.

I'm not sure what you mean. The police admitted the stop was unrelated several days ago and as far as I know there's been no evidence to the contrary since then.

I had heard that statement but didn't know how concrete it was. It seems a ton of "facts" in this case have been turned on their head in the last few days. If that has still held true then all good. Regardless, kid's size/attire/proximity would have been more than enough to evoke reasonable suspicion.

Reasonable suspicion of what? Again, the initial stop was unrelated to the robbery. That's pretty much the only detail that has gone unrefuted in this whole thing. Who cares if some hypothetical officer could have heard the report and IDed the victim as the suspect and stopped him for that reason. The actual officer didn't do that. He stopped him because he was walking in the middle of the street. End of story.

It was unrelated to the initial stop. There have been conflicting statements about whether the officer knew about it though. It's possible that at some point during the stop he realized they matched the description.

I imagine this will be cleared up in time.

Sure. My question is why was the information they knew last Friday (unrelated to the initial stop) not shared on Friday until they were pressed on it? Surely they knew as soon as the incident report was filed why the stop was made. Why share the robbery info during the press conference- something they KNEW would make it seem like the robbery was a factor in the shooting- and not share the fact that the stop was unrelated?

 

[jonessed]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

I wonder how much departments would save with the reduction in complaints and not having to investigate/defend/settle claims at the rate some do now?

I'm not sure it would reduce any of those costs. It could even increase some of them.

 

[fatness]

Video of 2 police officers in the street by the dead body after the shooting. Neither one acts obviously injured, neither one appears to be aiding an injured officer.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/special/witness-new-video-shows-immediate-aftermath-of-shooting/html_f0e94def-050b-5579-9c2b-7e4c2f831941.html

The video was shot by a witness whose (says her) phone was confiscated by the police. The video was obtained by CNN; I am assuming that was from a FOIA request. The officer on the right is reportedly the one who did the shooting.

 

[fatness]

I'd like to hear about his knuckles as the P.O.'s face was said to be a bit beaten up.

A source on that would be helpful. Was that from an official police report?

 

[jonessed]

I'd like to hear about his knuckles as the P.O.'s face was said to be a bit beaten up.

A source on that would be helpful. Was that from an official police report?

He reportedly went to the hospital afterwards for treatment on a swollen face.

 

[TheIronSheik]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .

I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

Little low there dude. Camera also then feeds back to the VPU for storage in the car before it uploads to the server.

It's over 5 grand per if you want a reliable system that prevents a defense lawyer from saying you tampered with the video.

maybe the PD should sell a tank or two to raise the money.

I keep seeing this said. What PD owns a tank?

 

[fourd]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

I wonder how much departments would save with the reduction in complaints and not having to investigate/defend/settle claims at the rate some do now?

I'm not sure it would reduce any of those costs. It could even increase some of them.

The department spotlighted saw an 88% decrease in complaints. How does that not translate into savings? What would go up?

 

[kentric]

Anybody that thinks a robbery that occurred 10 minutes before is completely irrelevant is obviously biased.

I think most people discount it because the P.O. didn't stop Brown for the robbery, rather, he stopped him for walking in the middle of the street. It may be relevant if Brown thought he was being addressed due to the robbery however. Not so sure that would be the case as Brown doesn't appear to have been the sharpest knife in the drawer. He robs a store and then walks down the middle of the street. Why put the spotlight (walking in the middle of the street) on yourself if you just committed a crime?

 

[jonessed]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

I wonder how much departments would save with the reduction in complaints and not having to investigate/defend/settle claims at the rate some do now?

I'm not sure it would reduce any of those costs. It could even increase some of them.

The department spotlighted saw an 88% decrease in complaints. How does that not translate into savings? What would go up?

I was thinking there could be more lawsuits for minor issues caught on the videos, but maybe not.

 

[fatness]

Only a snippet of the St. Louis County autopsy report has been released.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/18/county-investigation-michael-brown-was-shot-from-the-front-had-marijuana-in-his-system/?wpmm=AG0003386

Michael Brown was shot in the head and chest multiple times, according to Mary Case, the St. Louis County medical examiner.

While Case declined to comment further, citing the ongoing investigation into Brown’s death, another person familiar with the county’s investigation told The Washington Post that Brown had between six and eight gunshot wounds and was shot from the front.

In addition, Brown had marijuana in his system when he was shot and killed by a police officer on Aug. 9 in Ferguson, according to this person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

Has the officer who did the shooting been drug tested?

 

[Fennis]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .

I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

Little low there dude. Camera also then feeds back to the VPU for storage in the car before it uploads to the server.

It's over 5 grand per if you want a reliable system that prevents a defense lawyer from saying you tampered with the video.

maybe the PD should sell a tank or two to raise the money.

I keep seeing this said. What PD owns a tank?

https://tv.yahoo.com/video/ferguson-police-response-spotlights-domestic-130546728-cbs.html

In the past year the Department of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

 

[[icon]]

Not saying this is definitely the case, but it is interesting to note the linear pattern of the shots definitely looks like a typical muzzle rise (up and to the right) of some shooters firing off a string of rounds in rapid succession. Pretty common thing to observe at the range.

If that was the case it would debunk the "Shot from behind then turned around and shot from front" angle.

 

[jonessed]

I had no idea about the Swisher Sweets/drug connection. Interesting that it came into play.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Anybody that thinks a robbery that occurred 10 minutes before is completely irrelevant is obviously biased.

I disagree. I think those same people would find a video of the cop abusing his powers 10 minutes earlier irrelevant as well. Unfortunately, there's only the one video at this point.

 

[Fennis]

start the count down clock to: reefer madness

and 3... 2....1

 

[jonessed]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

Little low there dude. Camera also then feeds back to the VPU for storage in the car before it uploads to the server.It's over 5 grand per if you want a reliable system that prevents a defense lawyer from saying you tampered with the video.

maybe the PD should sell a tank or two to raise the money.

I keep seeing this said. What PD owns a tank?

https://tv.yahoo.com/video/ferguson-police-response-spotlights-domestic-130546728-cbs.html

In the past year the Department of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.

I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

 

[kentric]

Only a snippet of the St. Louis County autopsy report has been released.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/18/county-investigation-michael-brown-was-shot-from-the-front-had-marijuana-in-his-system/?wpmm=AG0003386

Michael Brown was shot in the head and chest multiple times, according to Mary Case, the St. Louis County medical examiner.

While Case declined to comment further, citing the ongoing investigation into Brown’s death, another person familiar with the county’s investigation told The Washington Post that Brown had between six and eight gunshot wounds and was shot from the front.

In addition, Brown had marijuana in his system when he was shot and killed by a police officer on Aug. 9 in Ferguson, according to this person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

Has the officer who did the shooting been drug tested?

There you go. He was on marijuana. The gateway drug. No wonder he kept coming after he was shot the first 4-5 times. I hear you smoke the wacky weed and you become invisible.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .

I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

Little low there dude. Camera also then feeds back to the VPU for storage in the car before it uploads to the server.

It's over 5 grand per if you want a reliable system that prevents a defense lawyer from saying you tampered with the video.

And how much money will be saved in legal bureaucracy, when shysters know that if they (edit: they = the police) did nothing wrong they won't have a case with video (90% less complaints!); And saved in payouts to victims that cops will be much less likely to abuse because they know they're on camera?

I don't know how you quantify that, but it's not like this is a sunk cost devoid of financial reward.

 

[fatness]

I'd like to hear about his knuckles as the P.O.'s face was said to be a bit beaten up.

A source on that would be helpful. Was that from an official police report?

He reportedly went to the hospital afterwards for treatment on a swollen face.

Thank you. That report seems to have come from the chief of Ferguson PD, who hasn't released the incident report, who has released contradictory stories, and who seems fond of the officer.

Police identified the officer who shot Michael Brown as 28-year-old Darren Wilson -- a six-year police veteran, including four years with the Ferguson force. Authorities had refused to name him, citing threats to his safety.

The fact they have now done so satisfies a major demand of protesters. But many remain perturbed that additional details have not come out about Brown's shooting.

What the police chief did do on Friday was express "every confidence" in Wilson, who had one side of his face swollen in his encounter with Brown, according to authorities.

"He (is) a gentleman ... a quiet officer," Jackson said. The entire situation is "devastating, it's absolutely devastating" to Wilson

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html

 

[Ditka Butkus]

As stated in the video.....3 of 53 officers are black....This doesn't mean the Ferguson police department is racist and doesn't want more black officers....Black officers are in demand across the nation and can virtually name where they want to work..........Money talks.

 

[Fennis]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Dr Baden said there were no signs of a struggle

Not that Dorian Johnson's eyewitness account needs any more holes drilled in it, but didn't Johnson say that Wilson reached out the window of his squad car, grabbed Brown by the neck, and began to choke him? Wouldn't a choke mark on the neck show up during an autopsy and be considered a sign of a struggle?

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

 

[jonessed]

I'd like to hear about his knuckles as the P.O.'s face was said to be a bit beaten up.

A source on that would be helpful. Was that from an official police report?

He reportedly went to the hospital afterwards for treatment on a swollen face.

Thank you. That report seems to have come from the chief of Ferguson PD, who hasn't released the incident report, who has released contradictory stories, and who seems fond of the officer.

Police identified the officer who shot Michael Brown as 28-year-old Darren Wilson -- a six-year police veteran, including four years with the Ferguson force. Authorities had refused to name him, citing threats to his safety.

The fact they have now done so satisfies a major demand of protesters. But many remain perturbed that additional details have not come out about Brown's shooting.

What the police chief did do on Friday was express "every confidence" in Wilson, who had one side of his face swollen in his encounter with Brown, according to authorities.

"He (is) a gentleman ... a quiet officer," Jackson said. The entire situation is "devastating, it's absolutely devastating" to Wilson

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html

I don't see how any of that matters. It should be easily enough to verify with hospital records.

 

[TheIronSheik]

What Happens When Police Officers Wear Body Cameras

Use of force by police officers declined 60% in first year since introduction of cameras in Rialto, Calif.

FYI - I cut out some of that post just to make it easier to read, not to try and edit anything. But I did want to touch on this: I think it would be awesome if all cops had body cameras. I think it would be beneficial to everyone, the cops as well as the community.

But I was under the belief that the reason cops don't have these is because of the cost. Is that a wrong assumption?

Cost is much less a factor now (IMO) than cops don't want to be filmed. There's a reason the PBA's are against their use.

But cost is still a factor. Last data I saw listed 780,000 police officers in the us. Let's assume only half (390,000) of those actually go out on patrol. If the cameras cost $100 each, that's $39million. But we haven't even gotten to the necessary infrastructure necessary to have the cameras downloaded everyday and kept on file (and a backup kept elsewhere) .

I agree it's a good idea, but many question if it's economically viable solution for situations that occur rather rarely.

Little low there dude. Camera also then feeds back to the VPU for storage in the car before it uploads to the server.

It's over 5 grand per if you want a reliable system that prevents a defense lawyer from saying you tampered with the video.

maybe the PD should sell a tank or two to raise the money.

I keep seeing this said. What PD owns a tank?

https://tv.yahoo.com/video/ferguson-police-response-spotlights-domestic-130546728-cbs.html

In the past year the Department of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

I think calling THAT a tank is a little hyperbolic. And by a little, I mean utterly ridiculous.

 

[jonessed]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.

I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear camouflage in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

I agree to an extent, but they aren't tanks.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Dr Baden said there were no signs of a struggle

Not that Dorian Johnson's eyewitness account needs any more holes drilled in it, but didn't Johnson say that Wilson reached out the window of his squad car, grabbed Brown by the neck, and began to choke him? Wouldn't a choke mark on the neck show up during an autopsy and be considered a sign of a struggle?

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

No ####, he must be one bad assed cop if he was willing to go hands on with a 6-4 300 pound dude.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.

I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear camouflage in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

I agree to an extent, but they aren't tanks.

Apparently Ferguson can use one of those if the reports of molotov cocktails being thrown are true.

 

[Fennis]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.

I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear camouflage in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

I agree to an extent, but they aren't tanks.

I don't care if people call Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles tanks as symbolism, but fine we can stick to calling them Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles

 

[msommer]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

The time line as I understand it

Brown and Johnson jaywalking

Officer stops and tells them to use the sidewalk

break

Allegedly a scuffle in the car: gun fired?

break

Shots fired at Brown, allegedly 35 ft from the police car

break

Officers called for crowd control

break

EMS arrives.

Would be interesting to have the breaks filled in reliably

 

[Ditka Butkus]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

 

[Gawain]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

Yes, but we already know that Brown had a propensity for displaying irrational physical aggression. the cop still has the benefit of the doubt.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Dr Baden said there were no signs of a struggle

Not that Dorian Johnson's eyewitness account needs any more holes drilled in it, but didn't Johnson say that Wilson reached out the window of his squad car, grabbed Brown by the neck, and began to choke him? Wouldn't a choke mark on the neck show up during an autopsy and be considered a sign of a struggle?

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

The police account also said there was a struggle. Not that the police need any more holes drilled in their credibility.

 

[TheIronSheik]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.

I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear camouflage in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

I agree to an extent, but they aren't tanks.

I don't care if people call Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles tanks as symbolism, but fine we can stick to calling them Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles

That's fine. But there's one reason, and one reason only people are calling them "tanks." And that's to draw up outrage because the image of a tank rolling through US cities conjures up scary thoughts. No one gets upset when an armored car rolls into town to pick up money from the bank. These vehicles are pretty much nicely equipped armored vehicles.

It's similar to when people talk about how PD's have drones now and they say things like "just like the one's that fly over Afghanistan." Sounds scary. I wonder why they don't say, "Just like the one's people use everyday to film stupid crap and then post on YouTube." My guess is because that latter statement doesn't fire up the people and make people angry.

 

[Fennis]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

 

[Henry Ford]

You're right, as an attorney you can't imagine any other possibility. Running towards him and being shot would never allow for his arms to be hit where they were in any manner other than him surrendering and hands in the air. Even though people were heard saying Brown was running at the cop. Or wait, was he running away?

Running toward him makes it easier to get shot in the upper arm under the armpit? How?

 

[Fennis]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.

I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear camouflage in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

I agree to an extent, but they aren't tanks.

I don't care if people call Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles tanks as symbolism, but fine we can stick to calling them Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles

That's fine. But there's one reason, and one reason only people are calling them "tanks." And that's to draw up outrage because the image of a tank rolling through US cities conjures up scary thoughts. No one gets upset when an armored car rolls into town to pick up money from the bank. These vehicles are pretty much nicely equipped armored vehicles.

It's similar to when people talk about how PD's have drones now and they say things like "just like the one's that fly over Afghanistan." Sounds scary. I wonder why they don't say, "Just like the one's people use everyday to film stupid crap and then post on YouTube." My guess is because that latter statement doesn't fire up the people and make people angry.

They are "nicely equipped" Mine Resistant and Ambush Protected vehicles. If you don't want people to call them tanks, then you should call them what they are. And FWIW, these are the Mine Resistant and Ambush Protected vehicles they use in Afghanistan to fight the enemy.

 

[Henry Ford]

You're right, as an attorney you can't imagine any other possibility. Running towards him and being shot would never allow for his arms to be hit where they were in any manner other than him surrendering and hands in the air. Even though people were heard saying Brown was running at the cop. Or wait, was he running away?

They said he was running away but now must change their story since the evidence proves otherwise.

I believe people said that's what the witnesses had said. The evidence certainly suggests otherwise.

 

[Henry Ford]

Was Brown really 6'4", 290 lbs.? He was 290?

Did you see the convenience store tape? That kid was huge.