Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (2 Viewers)

[Jackstraw]

Butkus:

So you agree there is no present need in Ferguson, MO. That is progress.

They are using the assault rifles now against protesters not wearing body armor, nor wielding assault rifles.

And therein lies the problem.

You keep saying things like "Looks like they don't need this..."The point Butkus is making is that the Police Department should be prepared for any kind of event that has happened. Do you remember the Bank of America robbery in CA? Police went to that active crime scene with pistols and had to face off against two criminals equipped in armor from head to toe and with assault rifles. The cops were literally helpless against them. Police and civilians were pinned down, unable to do anything to stop the mad men.

Luckily, some officers went to a gun store and took some rifles to use against them. Only then, did the police start to control the situation and restore order.

Why should officers not be equipped to handle any situation? This whole idea of only going into a situation with just enough is stupid. These cops are putting their lives on the line.

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

 

[Jim11]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

So you at least acknowledge that there's a somewhat better chance that Mr. Brown would do the bum rush thing than that the officer would shoot somebody who was just standing there with his hands up?

 

[kentric]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

Do you really believe someone would turn around and attack a police officer who has already shot at him?

 

[TheIronSheik]

I always enjoy when people take a rationale argument and turn it into a ridiculous argument to help convince people their side is right.

Wait a second- didn't you turn my post about the police intimidating people through military weaponry/vehicles/attire into "the police in this country are out to kill citizens" like an hour ago?

Are you still replying to me?

I take it you'd prefer that I not point out your hypocrisy? Sure, you got it.

You said our argument was done. I imagined you had camo on when you said that and you became very scary to me and I was afraid to talk with you anymore. Instead, I went out and burned down my neighbors house and robbed a corner store.

 

[Henry Ford]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

I don't know about the officer, but there are certainly a number of examples of officers who have been alleged to do this. Or worse.

 

[msommer]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

So you at least acknowledge that there's a somewhat better chance that Mr. Brown would do the bum rush thing than that the officer would shoot somebody who was just standing there with his hands up?

Now that I think about it, it's actually more credible than the bum rush

 

[kentric]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

You mean the guy that earlier that day pushed aside a store clerk so he could leave with stolen cigars......with marijuana in his system? Is that the guy we are talking about?

The same 6'-4" 290 lb guy who according to Wilson's account and the audio recording we have heard, that was running full speed at Wilson? Is that the guy we are talking about? Yeah, I'm pretty sure a magazine unloaded into him would be acceptable. You run towards a police officer, with or without a deadly object in hand, you should expect to die.

Why bring up Wilson's account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his hands up.

 

[msommer]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

You mean the guy that earlier that day pushed aside a store clerk so he could leave with stolen cigars......with marijuana in his system? Is that the guy we are talking about?

The same 6'-4" 290 lb guy who according to Wilson's account and the audio recording we have heard, that was running full speed at Wilson? Is that the guy we are talking about? Yeah, I'm pretty sure a magazine unloaded into him would be acceptable. You run towards a police officer, with or without a deadly object in hand, you should expect to die.

Why bring up Wilson's account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his hands up.

It's allegedly Wilson's account

 

[kentric]

I always enjoy when people take a rationale argument and turn it into a ridiculous argument to help convince people their side is right.

Wait a second- didn't you turn my post about the police intimidating people through military weaponry/vehicles/attire into "the police in this country are out to kill citizens" like an hour ago?

Are you still replying to me?

I take it you'd prefer that I not point out your hypocrisy? Sure, you got it.

You said our argument was done. I imagined you had camo on when you said that and you became very scary to me and I was afraid to talk with you anymore. Instead, I went out and burned down my neighbors house and robbed a corner store.

Glad to see you're being proactive Shiek. I for one won't stand by while people try to commit genocide on shieks.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

 

[kentric]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

You mean the guy that earlier that day pushed aside a store clerk so he could leave with stolen cigars......with marijuana in his system? Is that the guy we are talking about?

The same 6'-4" 290 lb guy who according to Wilson's account and the audio recording we have heard, that was running full speed at Wilson? Is that the guy we are talking about? Yeah, I'm pretty sure a magazine unloaded into him would be acceptable. You run towards a police officer, with or without a deadly object in hand, you should expect to die.

Why bring up Wilson's account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his hands up.

It's allegedly Wilson's account

Thank you. Why bring up Wilson's alleged account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his alleged hands up (or do we have proof that he had hands?)

 

[TobiasFunke]

I always enjoy when people take a rationale argument and turn it into a ridiculous argument to help convince people their side is right.

Wait a second- didn't you turn my post about the police intimidating people through military weaponry/vehicles/attire into "the police in this country are out to kill citizens" like an hour ago?

Are you still replying to me?

I take it you'd prefer that I not point out your hypocrisy? Sure, you got it.

You said our argument was done. I imagined you had camo on when you said that and you became very scary to me and I was afraid to talk with you anymore. Instead, I went out and burned down my neighbors house and robbed a corner store.

Right, that particular argument was done. Your hypocrisy and awful use of metaphors continues unabated, as always. At this point I'm just gonna assume you're doing a character. "Terrible Message Board Argument Guy." That way it's funny instead of just kinda pointless and sad.

 

[saintfool]

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

What about 41 rounds fired while reaching for identification?

 

[Henry Ford]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

 

[msommer]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

You mean the guy that earlier that day pushed aside a store clerk so he could leave with stolen cigars......with marijuana in his system? Is that the guy we are talking about?

The same 6'-4" 290 lb guy who according to Wilson's account and the audio recording we have heard, that was running full speed at Wilson? Is that the guy we are talking about? Yeah, I'm pretty sure a magazine unloaded into him would be acceptable. You run towards a police officer, with or without a deadly object in hand, you should expect to die.

Why bring up Wilson's account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his hands up.

It's allegedly Wilson's account

Thank you. Why bring up Wilson's alleged account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his alleged hands up (or do we have proof that he had hands?)

I think that's where the video comes in.

Your Honor, Exhibit A shows Mr Brown having hands only a few minutes before the encounter with Officer Wilson

 

[Henry Ford]

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

What about 41 rounds fired while reaching for identification?

Or shot with an assault rifle while on your knees surrendering? Of course you don't actually get fired until you print T-shirts that say "Baby's Daddy Removal Team" on them.

 

[lod01]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

You mean the guy that earlier that day pushed aside a store clerk so he could leave with stolen cigars......with marijuana in his system? Is that the guy we are talking about?

The same 6'-4" 290 lb guy who according to Wilson's account and the audio recording we have heard, that was running full speed at Wilson? Is that the guy we are talking about? Yeah, I'm pretty sure a magazine unloaded into him would be acceptable. You run towards a police officer, with or without a deadly object in hand, you should expect to die.

Why bring up Wilson's account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his hands up.

It's allegedly Wilson's account

You will find out that it IS Wilson's account. On top of that, these so called witnesses' accounts will be shredded in any court. Liars can't keep their lies straight.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

I understand that this happens. Is it the norm? Not even close. Police have been known to accidentally shoot innocent people, too. I don't think we should take away their guns, either.

 

[msommer]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

You mean the guy that earlier that day pushed aside a store clerk so he could leave with stolen cigars......with marijuana in his system? Is that the guy we are talking about?

The same 6'-4" 290 lb guy who according to Wilson's account and the audio recording we have heard, that was running full speed at Wilson? Is that the guy we are talking about? Yeah, I'm pretty sure a magazine unloaded into him would be acceptable. You run towards a police officer, with or without a deadly object in hand, you should expect to die.

Why bring up Wilson's account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his hands up.

It's allegedly Wilson's account

You will find out that it IS Wilson's account. On top of that, these so called witnesses' accounts will be shredded in any court. Liars can't keep their lies straight.

Of course it will be Wilson's account. That doesn't actually mean that it is true.

We'll see what the evidence shows

 

[lod01]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

Do you really believe someone would turn around and attack a police officer who has already shot at him?

You act like that has never happened before.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I always enjoy when people take a rationale argument and turn it into a ridiculous argument to help convince people their side is right.

Wait a second- didn't you turn my post about the police intimidating people through military weaponry/vehicles/attire into "the police in this country are out to kill citizens" like an hour ago?

Are you still replying to me?

I take it you'd prefer that I not point out your hypocrisy? Sure, you got it.

You said our argument was done. I imagined you had camo on when you said that and you became very scary to me and I was afraid to talk with you anymore. Instead, I went out and burned down my neighbors house and robbed a corner store.

Right, that particular argument was done. Your hypocrisy and awful use of metaphors continues unabated, as always. At this point I'm just gonna assume you're doing a character. "Terrible Message Board Argument Guy." That way it's funny instead of just kinda pointless and sad.

You do whatever you have to do. Just watch out for guys in camo.

 

[kentric]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

You mean the guy that earlier that day pushed aside a store clerk so he could leave with stolen cigars......with marijuana in his system? Is that the guy we are talking about?

The same 6'-4" 290 lb guy who according to Wilson's account and the audio recording we have heard, that was running full speed at Wilson? Is that the guy we are talking about? Yeah, I'm pretty sure a magazine unloaded into him would be acceptable. You run towards a police officer, with or without a deadly object in hand, you should expect to die.

Why bring up Wilson's account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his hands up.

It's allegedly Wilson's account

Thank you. Why bring up Wilson's alleged account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his alleged hands up (or do we have proof that he had hands?)

I think that's where the video comes in.

Your Honor, Exhibit A shows Mr Brown having hands only a few minutes before the encounter with Officer Wilson

Good. Now we can have his knuckles checked for bruises.

 

[msommer]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

it's not much further out of the realms of possibility than an unarmed man, already 10 yards away and getting further, abruptly turns and bumrushes a police officer with his weapon drawn.

You mean the guy that earlier that day pushed aside a store clerk so he could leave with stolen cigars......with marijuana in his system? Is that the guy we are talking about?

The same 6'-4" 290 lb guy who according to Wilson's account and the audio recording we have heard, that was running full speed at Wilson? Is that the guy we are talking about? Yeah, I'm pretty sure a magazine unloaded into him would be acceptable. You run towards a police officer, with or without a deadly object in hand, you should expect to die.

Why bring up Wilson's account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his hands up.

It's allegedly Wilson's account

Thank you. Why bring up Wilson's alleged account? At this time, that has as much validity as the witnesses who saw Brown with his alleged hands up (or do we have proof that he had hands?)

I think that's where the video comes in.

Your Honor, Exhibit A shows Mr Brown having hands only a few minutes before the encounter with Officer Wilson

Good. Now we can have his knuckles checked for bruises.

The family's autopsy stated - no sign of a struggle

 

[kentric]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

Do you really believe someone would turn around and attack a police officer who has already shot at him?

You act like that has never happened before.

I wouldn't say it never happened, same way you can't say an officer wouldn't shoot someone who had their hands up and were just standing there.

 

[Henry Ford]

Here are a couple lists:

One

Two

Oscar Grant is controversial, of course. He was handcuffed on the ground and shot in the back by an officer who says he meant to pull out his taser.

 

[CBusAlex]

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

If you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't live in the same city as people who break the law.

 

[Henry Ford]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

I understand that this happens. Is it the norm? Not even close. Police have been known to accidentally shoot innocent people, too. I don't think we should take away their guns, either.

I don't either, but "You don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law" isn't really a fair characterization. It happens more than the police would like to admit. I linked to the first story that came up, but it happens.

 

[kentric]

Good. Now we can have his knuckles checked for bruises.

The family's autopsy stated - no sign of a struggle

For some reason I believe the family's autopsy may have been predjudiced. I got the feeling they were just discussing major injuries to Brown and not some minor skin bruising.

 

[saintfool]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

I understand that this happens. Is it the norm? Not even close. Police have been known to accidentally shoot innocent people, too. I don't think we should take away their guns, either.

"Proportional force" down? Emptying your clip for a jaywalker seems a tad much.

 

[msommer]

Good. Now we can have his knuckles checked for bruises.

The family's autopsy stated - no sign of a struggle

For some reason I believe the family's autopsy may have been predjudiced. I got the feeling they were just discussing major injuries to Brown and not some minor skin bruising.

It's possible, but the guy is a well known medical examiner in NYC so you'd think he had some integrity

 

[Henry Ford]

Butkus:

So you agree there is no present need in Ferguson, MO. That is progress.

They are using the assault rifles now against protesters not wearing body armor, nor wielding assault rifles.

And therein lies the problem.

They are carrying assault rifles (at least some of them). Are they actually using them? I haven't heard of any shots fired by police.

There have been shots fired Just killed a guy about half an hour ago. Likely some of them have been fully justified. Don't know if all of them have.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Ok now what I am getting is if we unarm the police force, the looting and rioting will stop...Can the police at least have nightsticks and whistles?

 

[Henry Ford]

Ok now what I am getting is if we unarm the police force, the looting and rioting will stop...Can the police at least have nightsticks and whistles?

I'll give you kazoos

 

[kentric]

Good. Now we can have his knuckles checked for bruises.

The family's autopsy stated - no sign of a struggle

For some reason I believe the family's autopsy may have been predjudiced. I got the feeling they were just discussing major injuries to Brown and not some minor skin bruising.

It's possible, but the guy is a well known medical examiner in NYC so you'd think he had some integrity

I didn't think we got the full autopsy report, only a translation from the family's support team. Didn't they say it was consistent with the witness statements? The one witness statement indicated he was shot in the back, so that's already an inaccuracy.

 

[msommer]

Butkus:

So you agree there is no present need in Ferguson, MO. That is progress.

They are using the assault rifles now against protesters not wearing body armor, nor wielding assault rifles.

And therein lies the problem.

They are carrying assault rifles (at least some of them). Are they actually using them? I haven't heard of any shots fired by police.

There have been shots fired Just killed a guy about half an hour ago. Likely some of them have been fully justified. Don't know if all of them have.

I think he meant with the assault rifles

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

I understand that this happens. Is it the norm? Not even close. Police have been known to accidentally shoot innocent people, too. I don't think we should take away their guns, either.

I don't either, but "You don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law" isn't really a fair characterization. It happens more than the police would like to admit. I linked to the first story that came up, but it happens.

And again, I never said it didn't happen. But I'm guessing the amount of time it has happened is less than 200. How many raids do you think SWAT does? Is less than .001% really worrisome?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Butkus:

So you agree there is no present need in Ferguson, MO. That is progress.

They are using the assault rifles now against protesters not wearing body armor, nor wielding assault rifles.

And therein lies the problem.

They are carrying assault rifles (at least some of them). Are they actually using them? I haven't heard of any shots fired by police.

There have been shots fired Just killed a guy about half an hour ago. Likely some of them have been fully justified. Don't know if all of them have.

This had nothing to do with the Ferguson Police...The way I read it anyway.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

I understand that this happens. Is it the norm? Not even close. Police have been known to accidentally shoot innocent people, too. I don't think we should take away their guns, either.

"Proportional force" down? Emptying your clip for a jaywalker seems a tad much.

Not sure what your argument is here.

 

[Jim11]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

Do you really believe someone would turn around and attack a police officer who has already shot at him?

I believe that before I'd believe the officer would shoot a guy just standing there with his hands up. Mr. Brown was in trouble with the law before, as a juvenile...that's why the family went out of their way to say that he had no ADULT record. Having just turned 18, they hadn't arrested him for anything...yet. You saw him steal the cigars.

 

[msommer]

Good. Now we can have his knuckles checked for bruises.

The family's autopsy stated - no sign of a struggle

For some reason I believe the family's autopsy may have been predjudiced. I got the feeling they were just discussing major injuries to Brown and not some minor skin bruising.

It's possible, but the guy is a well known medical examiner in NYC so you'd think he had some integrity

I didn't think we got the full autopsy report, only a translation from the family's support team. Didn't they say it was consistent with the witness statements? The one witness statement indicated he was shot in the back, so that's already an inaccuracy.

The two medical examiners gave statements and then the lawyer for the family did, as I understand it

 

[kentric]

I always enjoy when people take a rationale argument and turn it into a ridiculous argument to help convince people their side is right.

Wait a second- didn't you turn my post about the police intimidating people through military weaponry/vehicles/attire into "the police in this country are out to kill citizens" like an hour ago?

Are you still replying to me?

I take it you'd prefer that I not point out your hypocrisy? Sure, you got it.

You said our argument was done. I imagined you had camo on when you said that and you became very scary to me and I was afraid to talk with you anymore. Instead, I went out and burned down my neighbors house and robbed a corner store.

Right, that particular argument was done. Your hypocrisy and awful use of metaphors continues unabated, as always. At this point I'm just gonna assume you're doing a character. "Terrible Message Board Argument Guy." That way it's funny instead of just kinda pointless and sad.

You do whatever you have to do. Just watch out for guys in camo.

Can we agree that there is no need for MRAPs in this situation? Hard to imagine they're being used for something other than psychological reasons (intimidation).

 

[Ditka Butkus]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

Do you really believe someone would turn around and attack a police officer who has already shot at him?

I believe that before I'd believe the officer would shoot a guy just standing there with his hands up. Mr. Brown was in trouble with the law before, as a juvenile...that's why the family went out of their way to say that he had no ADULT record. Having just turned 18, they hadn't arrested him for anything...yet. You saw him steal the cigars.

No.. I think we established him and the small guy always horsed around like that.

 

[msommer]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

I understand that this happens. Is it the norm? Not even close. Police have been known to accidentally shoot innocent people, too. I don't think we should take away their guns, either.

I don't either, but "You don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law" isn't really a fair characterization. It happens more than the police would like to admit. I linked to the first story that came up, but it happens.

And again, I never said it didn't happen. But I'm guessing the amount of time it has happened is less than 200. How many raids do you think SWAT does? Is less than .001% really worrisome?

According to John Oliver's propaganda SWAT use is up 1400 percent in 20-25 years. Has crime really risen that much in the US?

 

[Henry Ford]

Butkus:

So you agree there is no present need in Ferguson, MO. That is progress.

They are using the assault rifles now against protesters not wearing body armor, nor wielding assault rifles.

And therein lies the problem.

They are carrying assault rifles (at least some of them). Are they actually using them? I haven't heard of any shots fired by police.

There have been shots fired Just killed a guy about half an hour ago. Likely some of them have been fully justified. Don't know if all of them have.

This had nothing to do with the Ferguson Police...The way I read it anyway.

That's absolutely true, it appears. I found the thing out of context.

In any case, if there were unjustified shootings, there would be headlines right now I think.

 

[kentric]

Good. Now we can have his knuckles checked for bruises.

The family's autopsy stated - no sign of a struggle

For some reason I believe the family's autopsy may have been predjudiced. I got the feeling they were just discussing major injuries to Brown and not some minor skin bruising.

It's possible, but the guy is a well known medical examiner in NYC so you'd think he had some integrity

I didn't think we got the full autopsy report, only a translation from the family's support team. Didn't they say it was consistent with the witness statements? The one witness statement indicated he was shot in the back, so that's already an inaccuracy.

The two medical examiners gave statements and then the lawyer for the family did, as I understand it

Wouldn't be the first time I got autopsy report results wrong. haha

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

I understand that this happens. Is it the norm? Not even close. Police have been known to accidentally shoot innocent people, too. I don't think we should take away their guns, either.

I don't either, but "You don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law" isn't really a fair characterization. It happens more than the police would like to admit. I linked to the first story that came up, but it happens.

And again, I never said it didn't happen. But I'm guessing the amount of time it has happened is less than 200. How many raids do you think SWAT does? Is less than .001% really worrisome?

According to John Oliver's propaganda SWAT use is up 1400 percent in 20-25 years. Has crime really risen that much in the US?

Yes, just in South Chicago alone.

 

[saintfool]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

I understand that this happens. Is it the norm? Not even close. Police have been known to accidentally shoot innocent people, too. I don't think we should take away their guns, either.

I don't either, but "You don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law" isn't really a fair characterization. It happens more than the police would like to admit. I linked to the first story that came up, but it happens.

And again, I never said it didn't happen. But I'm guessing the amount of time it has happened is less than 200. How many raids do you think SWAT does? Is less than .001% really worrisome?

SWAT teams are used to serve summons now. Maryland is the only state that requires law enforcement to track and report how SWAT is deployed. Details can be found here. Can we extrapolate from one state, with a nice mix of urban, suburban and rural communities, how SWAT is being used?

 

[kentric]

What if it turns out the cop suffered injuries during the struggle with Brown near or inside the cop car?

Does this change anything for you?

What if they find fingerprints on the gun that match Brown's?

I'm in the camp that I need more info before I judge anything.

He could have all the injuries in the world and it still wouldn't justify unloading on someone 10 yards away with his arms up.

So yes, I agree. We desperately need more information

Do you really believe that the officer would shoot someone who had their hands up and was just standing there? Seriously?

Do you really believe someone would turn around and attack a police officer who has already shot at him?

I believe that before I'd believe the officer would shoot a guy just standing there with his hands up. Mr. Brown was in trouble with the law before, as a juvenile...that's why the family went out of their way to say that he had no ADULT record. Having just turned 18, they hadn't arrested him for anything...yet. You saw him steal the cigars.

My argument is that neither is the expected actions from any rational human being. Brown seems to only have had marijuana in his system. This isn't Reefer Madness syndrome. If he was on something a bit more hallucinigenic I can see why he'd rush the cop. Something went haywire here.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Can we agree that there is no need for MRAPs in this situation? Hard to imagine they're being used for something other than psychological reasons (intimidation).

As I stated before, I don't really know the situation that great. Haven't been following it much more than just the headlines. But even with that said, I don't understand what issue is. It carries personnel. It's armored. Are rioters throwing molotov cocktails? Are the police being attacked? Why are they not allowed to have this vehicle?

 

[msommer]

I think the proverb when you got a hammer everything looks like a nail is appropriate here. Member when Tazers came out they said it was non lethal force to stop say a nutball with a knife. Now they taze the crap out of someone who simply won't get out of their car. It's a punishment for non compliance now. All the commando gear was to make sure they wouldn't be outgunned by guys with body armor and assault rifles. Well not many of those around so they barrel into pot grower's houses like they are making a raid in downtown Fallujah.

You got the toys, you're gonna use them.

They go in like that because there is a chance there could be resistance. Again, if you don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law. Just because some pot growers aren't violent doesn't mean that all are. Why are we so against cops utilizing tactics that make their job safer?

One of the problems of course being breaking down the wrong door.

I understand that this happens. Is it the norm? Not even close. Police have been known to accidentally shoot innocent people, too. I don't think we should take away their guns, either.

I don't either, but "You don't want SWAT breaking down your door, don't break the law" isn't really a fair characterization. It happens more than the police would like to admit. I linked to the first story that came up, but it happens.

And again, I never said it didn't happen. But I'm guessing the amount of time it has happened is less than 200. How many raids do you think SWAT does? Is less than .001% really worrisome?

According to John Oliver's propaganda SWAT use is up 1400 percent in 20-25 years. Has crime really risen that much in the US?

Yes, just in South Chicago alone.

Funny, but not true