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Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'd have a big issue with a 9 PM curfew; that's a significant infringement. Midnight wouldn't bother me that much I guess.
Of course it doesn't really matter if you restrict people to their homes and then tear gas those homes.
Doug B
Footballguy
Points granted ... change "Ferguson PD" to "the authorities".
Makes my point all the stronger ... now things have to go through many more layers of approval before release to the public.
kentric
Footballguy
That officer GFY should be placed on administrative leave at the least. You need to get idiots like that both off the streets and off the force.
kentric
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Not really, since black people don't all go to the same "crime training" or take directions from the same leadership that guides their criminal activity. But point taken, it's not quite fair. I guess instead I should say that there are a LOT of police acting way out of line. This isn't just one or two isolated incidents.
msommer
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
To an extent. I'd say comparing Michael Brown's mindset during that stop to the mindsets of Ted Bundy, Tim McVeigh, and Eric Rudolph might be just a tad hyperbolic.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Do you think they'll hire the most qualified?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
So local news then, right? I live in Virginia. I've heard quite a lot about Brown. I heard about Eric Garner. I've even heard about John Crawford. I've heard nothing till just now about Gaynier, which apparently happened 8 days ago. lod has a point.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
How long (roughly) after the Zimmerman/ Martin issue was there pics of Zimmerman all beat up? Has there been any pics of Wilson with this fracture/ injury?
dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, the fact that these action seem to be widespread would indicate that they are following procedures. So why are these the procedures?Not really, since black people don't all go to the same "crime training" or take directions from the same leadership that guides their criminal activity. But point taken, it's not quite fair. I guess instead I should say that there are a LOT of police acting way out of line. This isn't just one or two isolated incidents.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Fair enough. And I'll just say there are a LOT of black criminals.Not really, since black people don't all go to the same "crime training" or take directions from the same leadership that guides their criminal activity. But point taken, it's not quite fair. I guess instead I should say that there are a LOT of police acting way out of line. This isn't just one or two isolated incidents.
Greggity
Footballguy
Greggity
Footballguy
I thought that was just a rumor like middle aged white men are serial killers....Fair enough. And I'll just say there are a LOT of black criminals.Not really, since black people don't all go to the same "crime training" or take directions from the same leadership that guides their criminal activity. But point taken, it's not quite fair. I guess instead I should say that there are a LOT of police acting way out of line. This isn't just one or two isolated incidents.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
A considerable amount of time after the picture of TM's 6th grade class photo. Not that I have seen.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Absolutely, say it all you want. Maybe make it your sig?Fair enough. And I'll just say there are a LOT of black criminals.Not really, since black people don't all go to the same "crime training" or take directions from the same leadership that guides their criminal activity. But point taken, it's not quite fair. I guess instead I should say that there are a LOT of police acting way out of line. This isn't just one or two isolated incidents.
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Insoxicated
A cop should never point his rifle at anything unless he doesn't intend to shoot at a moments notice.
He DEFINITELY should never point his rifle at anything while yelling "I will shoot you" unless that individual is an immediate grave threat to the officer or other citizens.
That said...
As johnny stated, an officer walking backward with his rifle raised should not be a problem as his finger SHOULDN'T be on the trigger until right before it's pulled.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
Technically, I think the officer is guilty of assault (not battery) by doing that. But the officer would probably say you can't see what he sees and he would probably defend himself by saying he did perceive an immediate grave threat when he held his rifle up.
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Insoxicated
#### no it's not.
I understand officers being a little on edge in this scenario, but that dude needs his badge pulled... period. He WILL snap someday (soon?) and kill someone. Agreed 1000000%
Jim11
Footballguy
I'm glad that you guys have it all figured out. It's almost as if you witnessed it. I guess they must have been running backwards for Mr. Brown to get shot in the front.
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Insoxicated
I hear ya... but he'd have a hard time proving that based on the video presented. Dude is not stable... looked like your stereotypical "drunk with power / first time holding an AR-15" aggro-cop. He needs to be gone. Thankfully he appeared to be at least exercising proper trigger discipline (one beam of light in a very unsettling video).Technically, I think the officer is guilty of assault (not battery) by doing that. But the officer would probably say you can't see what he sees and he would probably defend himself by saying he did perceive an immediate grave threat when he held his rifle up.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Any police that used tear gas deliberately against journalists should not only be immediately fired, but charged with a felony and serve jail time.
tom22406
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
makes the most sense. We'll know more after the second autopsy. But the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me. It's possible, but very improbable. And the eagerness of some people to instantly believe this is very telling.
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Insoxicated
I was with ya till the bolded. Had to clean up some of the prior stuff too.
(just showing the other side of the bias coin here)
timschochet
Footballguy
tear gas isn't military hardware, if you're referring to my comments from yesterday. The police has had tear gas for decades, and have always had the capacity to abuse it.
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Insoxicated
So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?
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timschochet
Footballguy
i don't think his description was biased. And is that fracture confirmed? If it is, that might change things, though again it might not.
tom22406
Footballguy
I'm just glad you are finally admitting a problem in what the police are doing actually is happening.Baby steps!
Jim11
Footballguy
You people are a barrel of laughs. Shot while running away makes the most sense? Then how was Mr. Brown hit from the front?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?
johnnycakes
Footballguy
Someone needs to tell him juice will make the jewels shrivel into sun-dried tomatoes.I hear ya... but he'd have a hard time proving that based on the video presented. Dude is not stable... looked like your stereotypical "drunk with power / first time holding an AR-15" aggro-cop. He needs to be gone. Thankfully he appeared to be at least exercising proper trigger discipline (one beam of light in a very unsettling video).Technically, I think the officer is guilty of assault (not battery) by doing that. But the officer would probably say you can't see what he sees and he would probably defend himself by saying he did perceive an immediate grave threat when he held his rifle up.
Doug B
Footballguy
A run at the cop before the weapon was drawn is highly plausible to me
But yet again, with no multi-angle video we're all just wild-guessing, I suppose.
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Insoxicated
DISCLAIMER: Not portraying this as fact and haven't really read the thread (terrible signal/noise ratio) but one thing has intrigued me about the autopsy image...
The wound path is almost a straight line, and happens to be consistent with the typical rise associated with firing multiple shots in rapid succession. The bolded is not a guess or theory... it is an observed phenomenon with MANY shooters, and anyone who actually has trigger time will attest to it.
Interesting at the very least.... and COULD be interpreted as the target having hands by his side or in a running motion... vs having them up above his head in a submissive pose. I'm not a CSI guy and am not claiming this as fact... just giving from perspective of someone with a good bit of range time with a pistol of similar caliber as the officers were using.
The wound path is almost a straight line, and happens to be consistent with the typical rise associated with firing multiple shots in rapid succession. The bolded is not a guess or theory... it is an observed phenomenon with MANY shooters, and anyone who actually has trigger time will attest to it.
Interesting at the very least.... and COULD be interpreted as the target having hands by his side or in a running motion... vs having them up above his head in a submissive pose. I'm not a CSI guy and am not claiming this as fact... just giving from perspective of someone with a good bit of range time with a pistol of similar caliber as the officers were using.
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timschochet
Footballguy
thats absolutely true. But yesterday Henry Ford, among others, suggested some plausible alternatives. I have to say that: 1. It seems unlikely to me that Wilson fired at Brown's back as Brown was running away. (If the first autopsy is accurate, then this DID NOT HAPPEN.So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?
2. It seems even MORE unlikely to me that Brown ran away, turned around, and started charging an armed policeman. This sounds like the made up defense of Wilson and/or his supporters. Unless somebody finds a way to prove it, I think it's bs.
So I'm thinking there has to be a 3rd alternative. Maybe the kid ran away, the cop fired and missed (or winged him in the arm), the kid turned around and put his hands up, the cop fired the rest of the shots. That would match the 3 witnesses close enough. Or maybe something else happened.
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Insoxicated
JMHO.. which is worth about the same of every other person in this thread. Not muchTake a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?
Doug B
Footballguy
There is a third option largely unconsidered in this thread: the forward-facing target raised his hands to submit a few milliseconds too late, without sufficient time for Wilson to visually/mentally process the submission.
Had to have been a bang-bang event.
EDIT: Oof ... no pun intended in that last sentence. Baseball fans know what I meant: in the moment, events outpaced the human brain.
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avoiding injuries
Footballguy
http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2014/08/michael-brown-autopsy-shot-six-timesTake a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?
Doug B
Footballguy
Speculation: in whatever "fog of war" (ugh) was going on in Wilson's head ... perhaps this non-descript 180-degree turn got interpreted as "high threat".
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
When the media puts themselves that close to the front line, they become part of the protests, and thus should receive no special treatment. I am not saying whether or not tear gas should be used or not, but the media should receive no special treatment if they are gonna put themselves into the middle of it all.
Haven't seen any, and I think that is a major mistake. If Wilson's face really was beaten up by Brown, they needed to get a pic of that out as soon as possible. Even now, if they release it, you'll have some who'll say it is new and that they did that days or weeks later to make his story more believable.
Jim11
Footballguy
thats absolutely true. But yesterday Henry Ford, among others, suggested some plausible alternatives. I have to say that:1. It seems unlikely to me that Wilson fired at Brown's back as Brown was running away. (If the first autopsy is accurate, then this DID NOT HAPPEN.So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?
2. It seems even MORE unlikely to me that Brown ran away, turned around, and started charging an armed policeman. This sounds like the made up defense of Wilson and/or his supporters. Unless somebody finds a way to prove it, I think it's bs.
So I'm thinking there has to be a 3rd alternative. Maybe the kid ran away, the cop fired and missed (or winged him in the arm), the kid turned around and put his hands up, the cop fired the rest of the shots. That would match the 3 witnesses close enough. Or maybe something else happened.
Gimme a break. Mr. Brown was shot it the chest & head...the FRONT of his head.Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/official-autopsy-michael-brown-had-marijuana-in-his-system-was-shot-6-times/2014/08/18/8c016ef8-26f4-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html
Brown, 18, had six gunshot wounds to the head and chest and was shot from the front
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