Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (3 Viewers)

[Sand]

Seems like civilized society at work here...

Video of the Quick Trip Riot / Looting

Nice work, citizens.

Just goes to show... the rioters aren't interested in justice.

Oh, they would be, if there was a justice store in town.

No courthouses in Ferguson?

 

[fantasycurse42]

Seems like civilized society at work here...

Video of the Quick Trip Riot / Looting

Nice work, citizens.

That looks like more than a handful of unruly protestors...

 

[TobiasFunke]

Seems like civilized society at work here...

Video of the Quick Trip Riot / Looting

Nice work, citizens.

That looks like more than a handful of unruly protestors...

It's nine days old. Everyone agrees that the scene immediately after the shooting was pretty crazy.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Seems like civilized society at work here...

Video of the Quick Trip Riot / Looting

Nice work, citizens.

That looks like more than a handful of unruly protestors...

It's nine days old. Everyone agrees that the scene immediately after the shooting was pretty crazy.

To your first sentence:

That doesn't make it okay

To your second sentence:

Looks a lot more like people robbing, stealing, & looting than mourning or protesting.

 

[avoiding injuries]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

Every single witness has said that he was facing Wilson for the final shots. And look again at the part of the forearm that's hit. It's facing backwards if you're in a running position.

Ok, and given where the entry wounds are it looks like he was facing Wilson for all of the shots. And look again at the part of the forearm that's hit - it's facing forward if you're in a running position (you move your arms when you run).

If all the wounds were listed on the side of the posterior image, I can't imagine anyone arguing he was facing the officer based on a shot to the inner forearm. Yet, here we are arguing the opposite.

 

[Henry Ford]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

Every single witness has said that he was facing Wilson for the final shots. And look again at the part of the forearm that's hit. It's facing backwards if you're in a running position.

Ok, and given where the entry wounds are it looks like he was facing Wilson for all of the shots. And look again at the part of the forearm that's hit - it's facing forward if you're in a running position (you move your arms when you run).

If all the wounds were listed on the side of the posterior image, I can't imagine anyone arguing he was facing the officer based on a shot to the inner forearm. Yet, here we are arguing the opposite.

Unless his hands were in the air when he was facing the officer.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Seems like civilized society at work here...

Video of the Quick Trip Riot / Looting

Nice work, citizens.

That looks like more than a handful of unruly protestors...

It's nine days old. Everyone agrees that the scene immediately after the shooting was pretty crazy.

To your first sentence:

That doesn't make it okay

To your second sentence:

Looks a lot more like people robbing, stealing, & looting than mourning or protesting.

No, of course it doesn't make it OK. It does, however, make it common knowledge. So what was your point, then? Just reiterating something that was established ten days ago?

 

[avoiding injuries]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

Every single witness has said that he was facing Wilson for the final shots. And look again at the part of the forearm that's hit. It's facing backwards if you're in a running position.

Ok, and given where the entry wounds are it looks like he was facing Wilson for all of the shots. And look again at the part of the forearm that's hit - it's facing forward if you're in a running position (you move your arms when you run).

If all the wounds were listed on the side of the posterior image, I can't imagine anyone arguing he was facing the officer based on a shot to the inner forearm. Yet, here we are arguing the opposite.

Unless his hands were in the air when he was facing the officer.

But the two shots to the back of the head and the other shot to the back would stop most people from grasping at other scenarios.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Seems like civilized society at work here...

Video of the Quick Trip Riot / Looting

Nice work, citizens.

That looks like more than a handful of unruly protestors...

It's nine days old. Everyone agrees that the scene immediately after the shooting was pretty crazy.

To your first sentence:

That doesn't make it okay

To your second sentence:

Looks a lot more like people robbing, stealing, & looting than mourning or protesting.

No, of course it doesn't make it OK. It does, however, make it common knowledge. So what was your point, then? Just reiterating something that was established ten days ago?

Sorry I haven't followed this endlessly and didn't know the date... My point? Looks more criminal than peaceful But this was established ten days ago, sorry.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Seems like civilized society at work here...

Video of the Quick Trip Riot / Looting

Nice work, citizens.

That looks like more than a handful of unruly protestors...

It's nine days old. Everyone agrees that the scene immediately after the shooting was pretty crazy.

To your first sentence:

That doesn't make it okay

To your second sentence:

Looks a lot more like people robbing, stealing, & looting than mourning or protesting.

No, of course it doesn't make it OK. It does, however, make it common knowledge. So what was your point, then? Just reiterating something that was established ten days ago?

Sorry I haven't followed this endlessly and didn't know the date... My point? Looks more criminal than peaceful But this was established ten days ago, sorry.

Correct, the protests captured in that three minutes of video from one location ten days ago are definitely more criminal than peaceful.

I don't see any reason to think that's representative of what's happened over countless hours at various locations throughout the city, though.

 

[Henry Ford]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

Every single witness has said that he was facing Wilson for the final shots. And look again at the part of the forearm that's hit. It's facing backwards if you're in a running position.

Ok, and given where the entry wounds are it looks like he was facing Wilson for all of the shots. And look again at the part of the forearm that's hit - it's facing forward if you're in a running position (you move your arms when you run).

If all the wounds were listed on the side of the posterior image, I can't imagine anyone arguing he was facing the officer based on a shot to the inner forearm. Yet, here we are arguing the opposite.

Unless his hands were in the air when he was facing the officer.

But the two shots to the back of the head and the other shot to the back would stop most people from grasping at other scenarios.

Oh, I see. If they were all switched around. Sorry, misread that.

If they were all on the other side, you couldn't argue about the inner forearm. The inner forearm isn't on that side of the page.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Correct, the protests captured in that three minutes of video from one location ten days ago are definitely more criminal than peaceful.

I don't see any reason to think that's representative of what's happened over countless hours at various locations throughout the city, though.

Agreed, those 3 minutes at the beginning of this whole Ferguson saga (before the "outsiders" came to cause trouble) show a lot more than a few Ferguson residents acting well outside of the boundary of the law.

 

[kentric]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

 

[Dondante]

Correct, the protests captured in that three minutes of video from one location ten days ago are definitely more criminal than peaceful.

I don't see any reason to think that's representative of what's happened over countless hours at various locations throughout the city, though.

Agreed, those 3 minutes at the beginning of this whole Ferguson saga (before the "outsiders" came to cause trouble) show a lot more than a few Ferguson residents acting well outside of the boundary of the law.

They've earned the right to be criminally active. Besides, the boundaries you refer to were established by whites who have no idea what it is like to be black.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Correct, the protests captured in that three minutes of video from one location ten days ago are definitely more criminal than peaceful.

I don't see any reason to think that's representative of what's happened over countless hours at various locations throughout the city, though.

Agreed, those 3 minutes at the beginning of this whole Ferguson saga (before the "outsiders" came to cause trouble) show a lot more than a few Ferguson residents acting well outside of the boundary of the law.

Yeah. That's the now-famous QuikTrip. I think there was some false rumor about the place the first night and it was burned and looted. Then it became the central gathering point for peaceful protests for several days until the police blocked it off. I don't know much about the town but I assume it's at a central location or something.

 

[Christo]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

 

[Christo]

Correct, the protests captured in that three minutes of video from one location ten days ago are definitely more criminal than peaceful.

I don't see any reason to think that's representative of what's happened over countless hours at various locations throughout the city, though.

Agreed, those 3 minutes at the beginning of this whole Ferguson saga (before the "outsiders" came to cause trouble) show a lot more than a few Ferguson residents acting well outside of the boundary of the law.

They've earned the right to be criminally active. Besides, the boundaries you refer to were established by whites who have no idea what it is like to be black.

 

[Henry Ford]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

 

[matttyl]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Brown is 6'4", correct? Assuming he's holding his arms up in the air, his hands would be roughly 8" off the ground, give or take. Why in the world would the cop be aiming that far off from "center mass"? Is he that bad of a shot? Given that he struck Brown 6 times (we don't know how many shots were fired but I haven't heard it's anywhere close to 10+), he seems to be a decent shot.

 

[Henry Ford]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Brown is 6'4", correct? Assuming he's holding his arms up in the air, his hands would be roughly 8" off the ground, give or take. Why in the world would the cop be aiming that far off from "center mass"? Is he that bad of a shot? Given that he struck Brown 6 times (we don't know how many shots were fired but I haven't heard it's anywhere close to 10+), he seems to be a decent shot.

Maybe his vision was affected by his orbital fracture.

 

[Christo]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

I haven't seen a picture of it yet, but I doubt the cop's gun was one of those that shoots six bullets at one time.

 

[Henry Ford]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

I haven't seen a picture of it yet, but I doubt the cop's gun was one of those that shoots six bullets at one time.

Right. Which is why the argument earlier from people that he was shot in the head doesn't mean the shots in the arm happened in the same position. Which is the point I've been trying to make.

 

[Guest]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

I'm going with the arms bent and out in front in a "hold on a second" manner. Like a football ref about to give a pass interference call. One bullet caused multiple wounds. Bend the arm in the diagram and the wounds line up.

CSI has nothing on the FFA. We have this solved.

 

[Guest]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Brown is 6'4", correct? Assuming he's holding his arms up in the air, his hands would be roughly 8" off the ground, give or take. Why in the world would the cop be aiming that far off from "center mass"? Is he that bad of a shot? Given that he struck Brown 6 times (we don't know how many shots were fired but I haven't heard it's anywhere close to 10+), he seems to be a decent shot.

Easy to be going down after you have already been shot through the eye. Maybe the top of head shot was the last.

 

[Henry Ford]

Easy to be going down after you have already been shot through the eye. Maybe the top of head shot was the last.

According to the preliminary autopsy report, it was.

 

[matttyl]

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

Is it? I don't know if I'd call it weird, rather than just something I see every Sunday in the fall from guys about the same size as Brown.

 

[lod01]

My belief is the people on the street/protesters have already made their decision, and no amount of independent autopsies or investigations are going to be believed unless they come back in Brown's favor.

Could very well be true. But doesn't this also apply to Jim11, johnnycakes, Iod01, avoiding injuries, and yourself?

I don't know about the other guys, but I'm keeping an open mind...I don't think anywhere I have said Brown is guilty and the police are not.. or vice versa. In fact I gave a specific scenario of how when surrendering Brown may have been shot in the top of the head...and it went like this...Brown gets shot at..a miss...he turns around, puts his hands up..., gets shot numerous other times..., as he is falling forward (which seems logical after being shot) toward the officer...he takes a final shot to the top of the head.

Unless he tripped, (not witness statement of that) he's only going to fall forward on one of the 2 head shots. He's not going to fall forward on shots to an arm. Scenarios are that he's going to put his hands up and surrender or become enraged. Logically, in order for the 1st head shot to happen, he already had to have his head down. Now if you believe he was executed like the family lawyers like to say, he would have to be on his knees with the cop standing over him 'execution' style - once again no witness statement corroborate that scenario. Toss that scenario out.

Me, Jim11, etc. - innocent until proven guilty. For those other people it is obviously guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Maybe the top of head shot was the last.

Pathologist Michael Baden, who conducted the autopsy at the family's request, "shared his opinion that he did not suffer," Crump said.

Baden, who also spoke at the news conference, said Brown, 18, was shot at least six times, including twice in the head. None of the bullets entered from the back, and three were recovered from Brown's body, he said.

Brown could have survived all of his wounds except for the shot to the top of his head, Baden said. That shot was probably sustained last, hitting Brown as he was bending over, and exited through his right eye, he said.

Baden said Brown was shot from at least one foot away but the distance could have been as far as 30 feet. Baden said six bullets entered Brown's body and at least two bullets ricocheted and traveled back through his body. Bullet wounds to Brown's arms could have been sustained by putting his hands up or crossing his arms. (LINK)

 

[Henry Ford]

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

Is it? I don't know if I'd call it weird, rather than just something I see every Sunday in the fall from guys about the same size as Brown.

Do you believe that the spots where his entry wounds are are all in those photos? Because if you do, you haven't looked very closely.

 

[matttyl]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Brown is 6'4", correct? Assuming he's holding his arms up in the air, his hands would be roughly 8" off the ground, give or take. Why in the world would the cop be aiming that far off from "center mass"? Is he that bad of a shot? Given that he struck Brown 6 times (we don't know how many shots were fired but I haven't heard it's anywhere close to 10+), he seems to be a decent shot.

Maybe his vision was affected by his orbital fracture.

I'm sure you're joking, but that's exactly what I thought when I heard about the thus far unconfirmed orbital fracture situation. That's a whole lot of hits to one extremity of the body.

 

[lod01]

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

Is it? I don't know if I'd call it weird, rather than just something I see every Sunday in the fall from guys about the same size as Brown.

Yep. Supposedly he was taken out 3 feet from the officer. If he's rushing him, at that point, his head is going to be down at an angle that supports the angle of the head shots. He's not going to rush him like bigfoot or with his chin up.

 

[Henry Ford]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Brown is 6'4", correct? Assuming he's holding his arms up in the air, his hands would be roughly 8" off the ground, give or take. Why in the world would the cop be aiming that far off from "center mass"? Is he that bad of a shot? Given that he struck Brown 6 times (we don't know how many shots were fired but I haven't heard it's anywhere close to 10+), he seems to be a decent shot.

Maybe his vision was affected by his orbital fracture.

I'm sure you're joking, but that's exactly what I thought when I heard about the thus far unconfirmed orbital fracture situation. That's a whole lot of hits to one extremity of the body.

I'm not joking. If he had an orbital fracture, it makes a lot more sense that he'd shoot a guy with his hands up.

 

[Henry Ford]

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

Is it? I don't know if I'd call it weird, rather than just something I see every Sunday in the fall from guys about the same size as Brown.

Yep. Supposedly he was taken out 3 feet from the officer. If he's rushing him, at that point, his head is going to be down at an angle that supports the angle of the head shots. He's not going to rush him like bigfoot or with his chin up.

Then he can't shoot the inside of the forearm unless the guy runs like Lamar from Revenge of the Nerds.

 

[matttyl]

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

Is it? I don't know if I'd call it weird, rather than just something I see every Sunday in the fall from guys about the same size as Brown.

Do you believe that the spots where his entry wounds are are all in those photos? Because if you do, you haven't looked very closely.

As you said, and I obviously agree with, all 6 shots weren't fired at the exact same time.

 

[jon_mx]

So if the last shot was to the top of the head, it makes most sense the his momentum had him moving towards the cop.

 

[kentric]

Meanwhile, the cops don't seem particularly concerned with the looting. Two separate accounts from business owners here (click to read the full passages). The second one is particularly damning- the only action taken by the cops after the looting was to kick out the volunteers who came to the market the next day to help clean and make repairs.

I don't see this as a big deal. There are large-scale protests, people running around throwing Molotov cocktails at the police. Their priority is to maintain the large group of protesters and not let them get out-of-hand. Not respond to each and every incident in the middle of the protests.

They found time to kick out the people who were helping clean up and repair one of the stores (second passage).

Only because they didn't represent a clear and present danger like those hooligan protestors.

 

[matttyl]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Brown is 6'4", correct? Assuming he's holding his arms up in the air, his hands would be roughly 8" off the ground, give or take. Why in the world would the cop be aiming that far off from "center mass"? Is he that bad of a shot? Given that he struck Brown 6 times (we don't know how many shots were fired but I haven't heard it's anywhere close to 10+), he seems to be a decent shot.

Maybe his vision was affected by his orbital fracture.

I'm sure you're joking, but that's exactly what I thought when I heard about the thus far unconfirmed orbital fracture situation. That's a whole lot of hits to one extremity of the body.

I'm not joking. If he had an orbital fracture, it makes a lot more sense that he'd shoot a guy with his hands up.

It would also make a lot more sense that his aim would be off kilter to one side, like his left or a guy facing him right side - which is what we have.

 

[Henry Ford]

the notion of Brown charging an armed policeman seems like a real stretch to me.

So does the notion that he was running away. Were the cops firing those magical U turn bullets that go past the target, then turn around and enter the front side of a person who's running away?

Take a picture of your back with your webcam. What part of your arm is showing?

My triceps muscle. Also, if I were running away (as is the thought here), my forearms would be parallel to the ground (thus an extremely difficult target), my hands would be hidden by my body, and my biceps would facing away. So how did he have entry wounds to his hand, forearm, and biceps?

The entry wounds would be consistent with someone holding their arms up over their head. If you're running its difficult to imagine all of the entry wounds on the arm.

Brown is 6'4", correct? Assuming he's holding his arms up in the air, his hands would be roughly 8" off the ground, give or take. Why in the world would the cop be aiming that far off from "center mass"? Is he that bad of a shot? Given that he struck Brown 6 times (we don't know how many shots were fired but I haven't heard it's anywhere close to 10+), he seems to be a decent shot.

Maybe his vision was affected by his orbital fracture.

I'm sure you're joking, but that's exactly what I thought when I heard about the thus far unconfirmed orbital fracture situation. That's a whole lot of hits to one extremity of the body.

I'm not joking. If he had an orbital fracture, it makes a lot more sense that he'd shoot a guy with his hands up.

It would also make a lot more sense that his aim would be off kilter to one side, like his left or a guy facing him right side - which is what we have.

I think that's likely in any stress scenario.

 

[Henry Ford]

So if the last shot was to the top of the head, it makes most sense the his momentum had him moving towards the cop.

Or that he was crumpling to the ground from having been shot 5 other times. Or that he was shot in the eye and jerked his head down.

 

[matttyl]

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

Is it? I don't know if I'd call it weird, rather than just something I see every Sunday in the fall from guys about the same size as Brown.

Yep. Supposedly he was taken out 3 feet from the officer. If he's rushing him, at that point, his head is going to be down at an angle that supports the angle of the head shots. He's not going to rush him like bigfoot or with his chin up.

Then he can't shoot the inside of the forearm unless the guy runs like Lamar from Revenge of the Nerds.

Very well could if the arm is cocked back in a "ready to punch" position.

 

[matttyl]

It would also make a lot more sense that his aim would be off kilter to one side, like his left or a guy facing him right side - which is what we have.

I think that's likely in any stress scenario.

Actually less likely with guys trained for situations like this, which again is what we have here.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Nice edit, Jim.

Tim's post (#3044) is not non-sensical at all -- he discarded the "blatant shots in the back" theory, and proposed another theory that would clear up some eyewitness ambiguity. Discarding the "victim recklessly charged the cop" theory is not crazy talk. It was easily possible that Brown was shot in the front without charging Wilson. All that was necessary was that Brown be facing Wilson.

EDIT: added post # in first sentence.

No ##### Sherlock. And the officer decided to shoot Mr. Brown, who was just peacefully standing there, just for the hell of it. In fact, he decided to unload his weapon; shooting him once or twice...while he was just standing there...with his hands up, no doubt...just wasn't enough.

Yeah, I guess it does seem pretty crazy to think that an officer in the Ferguson police department would act in an irresponsible and destructive manner towards a member of the community, or a black man in particular.

Was M.Brown incapable of lowering his head as hes being shot at? It seems it would be an instinctive reaction ....we have to figure this all happened in mere seconds....witnesses state they heard a flurry of gun shots ...a pause...then another flurry of shots....so IMO im saying Brown was shot at in the car during a struggle ...ran ...was shot at and hit in the hand or arm...jerked like he had been shot in the back...turned ...stated he wasnt armed and said dont shoot...raised his hands while moving towards the cop...the cop started firing again...was shot in the arm and the kid flinched and lowered his head ...was struck twice in the head rapidly and hit the ground dead.....im also guessing the kid may have smacked the cop while the cop was in the car ...the cop pulled his gun and Brown ran....the cop gets out and starts firing ....brown gets spooked and stops running .....the cop was pissed im sure....just look at the cop who was pointing his gun at the protesters in the video posted earlier...some cops have nasty tempers

 

[lod01]

Scenario: Turns and starts charging officer. Takes fire, instinctively arm goes up in attempt to protect self, the questionably arm shot occurs, then the head shots.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

Is it? I don't know if I'd call it weird, rather than just something I see every Sunday in the fall from guys about the same size as Brown.

Yep. Supposedly he was taken out 3 feet from the officer. If he's rushing him, at that point, his head is going to be down at an angle that supports the angle of the head shots. He's not going to rush him like bigfoot or with his chin up.

Then he can't shoot the inside of the forearm unless the guy runs like Lamar from Revenge of the Nerds.

NTTAWWT

 

[kentric]

What's sad is the people, some of whom are here, who are in the camp of those who rip the cops no matter what they do.

The cops stand by and watch and don't stop looting? It's the cops' fault.

The cops try to keep some order by not letting protesting escalate and get out of hand? It's the cops' fault.

They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I won't say they have handled this as well as they could have, but remember that they have been thrown into a very difficult situation and their lives are on the line. I think some forget that.

I've documented several times why I think this escalation is primarily the fault of the police. They have done many, many things wrong- well beyond "not handling this as well as they could have." It would take days to catalog all the things they've done to make things worse.

But for proof, consider last Thursday night. After the Ferguson police came under increased media and political scrutiny (that Wednesday was the day of the recorded arrests of two journalists and is when Rand Paul and Claire McCaskill and a few other national politicians made public statements decrying the police conduct), the St. Louis police were called in and took a completely different approach- no weapons pointed at the protestors, no us vs them mentality, . That was the day that everything seemed back to normal. Better than that, even. It was all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.

What happens the next morning? The Ferguson PD has their ridiculous PC where they name the shooter and simultaneously release the robbery video, don't bother to mention that the Brown traffic stop was unrelated to the robbery, give no other updates on the investigation, and take no questions. And guess what? That night we were right back where we started, all the outrage came right back to the front.

Maybe that's just correlation and not causation. But I doubt it. And I consider that the cops' fault.

So you're blaming looting on the police because they released the robbery video???

The professional opportunist looters may have something to say about this. You're besmirching their reputation.

No. I'm blaming the re-escalation of tensions on the bungled press conference, part of which was releasing the robbery video without mentioning that the initial stop was unrelated.

Ever noticed that every single time someone tries to summarize someone else's post in a question they're actually just getting it wrong for dramatic effect? Here's an idea- if you want to discuss what I said, discuss what I said. Reply, put my words in bold, and take issue with them if you want. Don't translate for me. You suck at it.

I didn't think I needed to connect the dots because the cause and effect was blatantly clear in your statement. But just to make it simple for you: Everything normal ----> bungled PC/release of robbery video ----> all outrage came back (including looting). You're blaming the police for the outrage. Outrage included looting. What other inference can one make from your post?

 

[lod01]

Unless he was holding his arm in front of his face to protect it while he was running at the cop.

Seems like if his head was down so he could be shot on the top of the head, that would be a really weird position to be in.

Is it? I don't know if I'd call it weird, rather than just something I see every Sunday in the fall from guys about the same size as Brown.

Yep. Supposedly he was taken out 3 feet from the officer. If he's rushing him, at that point, his head is going to be down at an angle that supports the angle of the head shots. He's not going to rush him like bigfoot or with his chin up.

Then he can't shoot the inside of the forearm unless the guy runs like Lamar from Revenge of the Nerds.

Very well could if the arm is cocked back in a "ready to punch" position.

Hadn't thought of that one but that is a possibility.

 

[Christo]

So if the last shot was to the top of the head, it makes most sense the his momentum had him moving towards the cop.

Or that he was crumpling to the ground from having been shot 5 other times. Or that he was shot in the eye and jerked his head down.

One of the wounds was to his hand, right? Isn't it possible that was the first shot and it caused his arm to raise so the next several shot could hit the inside of his arm?

 

[Henry Ford]

Scenario: Turns and starts charging officer. Takes fire, instinctively arm goes up in attempt to protect self, the questionably arm shot occurs, then the head shots.

Perfectly plausible. Not the only option, but plausible.

 

[Henry Ford]

So if the last shot was to the top of the head, it makes most sense the his momentum had him moving towards the cop.

Or that he was crumpling to the ground from having been shot 5 other times. Or that he was shot in the eye and jerked his head down.

One of the wounds was to his hand, right? Isn't it possible that was the first shot and it caused his arm to raise so the next several shot could hit the inside of his arm?

It is possible. Lots of things are possible. There's just no definitive proof from the body chart.

 

[lod01]

Nice edit, Jim.

Tim's post (#3044) is not non-sensical at all -- he discarded the "blatant shots in the back" theory, and proposed another theory that would clear up some eyewitness ambiguity. Discarding the "victim recklessly charged the cop" theory is not crazy talk. It was easily possible that Brown was shot in the front without charging Wilson. All that was necessary was that Brown be facing Wilson.

EDIT: added post # in first sentence.

No ##### Sherlock. And the officer decided to shoot Mr. Brown, who was just peacefully standing there, just for the hell of it. In fact, he decided to unload his weapon; shooting him once or twice...while he was just standing there...with his hands up, no doubt...just wasn't enough.

Yeah, I guess it does seem pretty crazy to think that an officer in the Ferguson police department would act in an irresponsible and destructive manner towards a member of the community, or a black man in particular.

Was M.Brown incapable of lowering his head as hes being shot at? It seems it would be an instinctive reaction ....we have to figure this all happened in mere seconds....witnesses state they heard a flurry of gun shots ...a pause...then another flurry of shots....so IMO im saying Brown was shot at in the car during a struggle ...ran ...was shot at and hit in the hand or arm...jerked like he had been shot in the back...turned ...stated he wasnt armed and said dont shoot...raised his hands while moving towards the cop...the cop started firing again...was shot in the arm and the kid flinched and lowered his head ...was struck twice in the head rapidly and hit the ground dead.....im also guessing the kid may have smacked the cop while the cop was in the car ...the cop pulled his gun and Brown ran....the cop gets out and starts firing ....brown gets spooked and stops running .....the cop was pissed im sure....just look at the cop who was pointing his gun at the protesters in the video posted earlier...some cops have nasty tempers

Wilson looks like a doofus. Had it been that initially claimed picture of the officer, I would tend to agree. That dude looked like he could get angry easily. At this point there is nothing to indicate Wilson is a bad cop or one with a temper and trust me, the family's lawyers have dug all they can via public records for any dirt. Find some and I'll back off on saying this guy is innocent until proven guilty and join the crowd here (not really) that is going with guilty until proven innocent.