Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (2 Viewers)

[timschochet]

I still don't see why people argue with Tim other than to issue declaratives so that people reading the posts and not the whole thread don't accept his declarations at face value.

I haven't made any declarations other than: I DON'T KNOW.

 

[timschochet]

Ahhh, of course they've tied up traffic. They don't realize -- or don't care -- that their fellow citizens in cars paid for the roads, too.

LIke I said earlier, and with a hat tip to a famous internet commenter, you'll get more of what you encourage.

Don't these people realize that there are other people which might need to get to the hospitals? Not just ambulances, either.

 

[General Tso]

So based on the above article, we really don't know whether Brown tried to seize Wilson's gun or not. We really don't know how far the distance was between them when Wilson fatally shot Brown. For both of these, so far as I know, all we have is Wilson's testimony plus several unreliable witnesses who contradict each other. Many of you have simply bought into Wilson's claims without questioning them at all. Many of you have treated them as undisputable facts, and have used them to justify all or most of your thinking on this issue. And they may be what actually happened. But we don't know.

Simple question - do you believe that Mike Brown assaulted Officer Wilson?

Simple answer: yes. It is my hunch that he did. Michael Brown was a stupid thug. However I don't know for sure. Did Michael Brown try to seize Wilson's gun? I have no ####### idea.Did Michael Brown, already wounded, having walked or run away from the car, suddenly turn around at a distance of 40 feet or more and charge an armed policeman, with a gun pointed at him, like a mad wounded animal? I have NEVER been able to believe this, sorry. Even for a dumb thug like Brown it doesn't make any sense. Sure it's possible. But I don't buy it.

So you think it's more plausible that Wilson basically executed him, correct? With all the evidence, including Brown's actions in the convenience store, where we saw him push an old man, then turn around and walk towards him in a menacing manner, you choose to believe that Wilson shot him for no reason.The only part of this story that seems to be a worthy debate is whether or not Wilson could have used less lethal force in taking him down. Perhaps a couple of shots to the legs. But even that debate is hard to argue for. A cop is trained to fire at the midsection of the body because it's the biggest target. I have to err on the side of the cop when it comes to protecting his life.

 

[TheAristocrat]

I still don't see why people argue with Tim other than to issue declaratives so that people reading the posts and not the whole thread don't accept his declarations at face value.

I haven't made any declarations other than: I DON'T KNOW.

And that you understand all cultures\races\times\causes at a significantly deeper level that none of us will ever understand.

 

[fantasycurse42]

‏

Ferguson protesters have run onto the 101 Freeway in downtown Los Angeles, blocking lanes in both directions.

Wouldn't even tap the brakes

Furthermore, I'd wager at least $250k that the duplication between the people protesting tonight and the OWS people = at least 50%

 

[timschochet]

I still don't see why people argue with Tim other than to issue declaratives so that people reading the posts and not the whole thread don't accept his declarations at face value.

I haven't made any declarations other than: I DON'T KNOW.

And that you understand all cultures\races\times\causes at a significantly deeper level that none of us will ever understand.

No.

 

[fantasycurse42]

15 minute delay, but I'm home... I'm sure you've all been waiting for this update... Goodnight britches 1

 

[rockaction]

I enjoy when people take back things I never gave away in the name of a type of citizenship that utterly infringes upon my right as a citizen to have some sort of say or process in the matter.

Way to be, street protestors!

 

[Billy Bats]

This is on the front page of Reddit right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPUcA7yrErg&feature=youtu.be

I haven't seen anything else from Fredrick Wilson II but I might have to subscribe.

Wow

This guys get's it.

GO STAKE YOUR CLAIM. It's a free country.

Nah, it's way easier to keep your hand out and blame everyone else.

The first time I clicked that link the video had 60k views... It's now at nearly300k just a few hours later

Good, I hope it hits 300m. I started posting it on Facebook, hopefully it spreads.

 

[timschochet]

So based on the above article, we really don't know whether Brown tried to seize Wilson's gun or not. We really don't know how far the distance was between them when Wilson fatally shot Brown. For both of these, so far as I know, all we have is Wilson's testimony plus several unreliable witnesses who contradict each other. Many of you have simply bought into Wilson's claims without questioning them at all. Many of you have treated them as undisputable facts, and have used them to justify all or most of your thinking on this issue. And they may be what actually happened. But we don't know.

Simple question - do you believe that Mike Brown assaulted Officer Wilson?

Simple answer: yes. It is my hunch that he did. Michael Brown was a stupid thug. However I don't know for sure. Did Michael Brown try to seize Wilson's gun? I have no ####### idea.Did Michael Brown, already wounded, having walked or run away from the car, suddenly turn around at a distance of 40 feet or more and charge an armed policeman, with a gun pointed at him, like a mad wounded animal? I have NEVER been able to believe this, sorry. Even for a dumb thug like Brown it doesn't make any sense. Sure it's possible. But I don't buy it.

So you think it's more plausible that Wilson basically executed him, correct? With all the evidence, including Brown's actions in the convenience store, where we saw him push an old man, then turn around and walk towards him in a menacing manner, you choose to believe that Wilson shot him for no reason.

No, that's never made sense to me either. My hunch (and that's all it is) is that Brown stupidly attacked Wilson like the thug he is, and ran away. And then Wilson lost his cool and shot Brown to death.

 

[TheAristocrat]

I still don't see why people argue with Tim other than to issue declaratives so that people reading the posts and not the whole thread don't accept his declarations at face value.

I haven't made any declarations other than: I DON'T KNOW.

And that you understand all cultures\races\times\causes at a significantly deeper level that none of us will ever understand.

No.

So you say now. I can't take the time to review all 80k posts that you have in this forum but you are notorious for this practice in any debate.

 

[General Tso]

Wait a minute, the kid walked up to a cop and punched him while he was sitting in his cruiser? Case closed, justified shooting.

There is no real evidence of this other than Wilson's testimony.

Or the pictures of the bruises on Wilson's face, neck and head. Unless you believe that Wilson pulled a Jim Carey in Liar Liar.

 

[Billy Bats]

So based on the above article, we really don't know whether Brown tried to seize Wilson's gun or not. We really don't know how far the distance was between them when Wilson fatally shot Brown. For both of these, so far as I know, all we have is Wilson's testimony plus several unreliable witnesses who contradict each other. Many of you have simply bought into Wilson's claims without questioning them at all. Many of you have treated them as undisputable facts, and have used them to justify all or most of your thinking on this issue. And they may be what actually happened. But we don't know.

Simple question - do you believe that Mike Brown assaulted Officer Wilson?

Simple answer: yes. It is my hunch that he did. Michael Brown was a stupid thug. However I don't know for sure. Did Michael Brown try to seize Wilson's gun? I have no ####### idea.Did Michael Brown, already wounded, having walked or run away from the car, suddenly turn around at a distance of 40 feet or more and charge an armed policeman, with a gun pointed at him, like a mad wounded animal? I have NEVER been able to believe this, sorry. Even for a dumb thug like Brown it doesn't make any sense. Sure it's possible. But I don't buy it.

So you think it's more plausible that Wilson basically executed him, correct? With all the evidence, including Brown's actions in the convenience store, where we saw him push an old man, then turn around and walk towards him in a menacing manner, you choose to believe that Wilson shot him for no reason.

No, that's never made sense to me either. My hunch (and that's all it is) is that Brown stupidly attacked Wilson like the thug he is, and ran away. And then Wilson lost his cool and shot Brown to death.

At what point does Wilson shoot him?

 

[squistion]

Ahhh, of course they've tied up traffic. They don't realize -- or don't care -- that their fellow citizens in cars paid for the roads, too.

LIke I said earlier, and with a hat tip to a famous internet commenter, you'll get more of what you encourage.

Don't these people realize that there are other people which might need to get to the hospitals? Not just ambulances, either.

Yeah, who do they think they are, Chris Christie?

 

[timschochet]

So based on the above article, we really don't know whether Brown tried to seize Wilson's gun or not. We really don't know how far the distance was between them when Wilson fatally shot Brown. For both of these, so far as I know, all we have is Wilson's testimony plus several unreliable witnesses who contradict each other. Many of you have simply bought into Wilson's claims without questioning them at all. Many of you have treated them as undisputable facts, and have used them to justify all or most of your thinking on this issue. And they may be what actually happened. But we don't know.

Simple question - do you believe that Mike Brown assaulted Officer Wilson?

Simple answer: yes. It is my hunch that he did. Michael Brown was a stupid thug. However I don't know for sure. Did Michael Brown try to seize Wilson's gun? I have no ####### idea.Did Michael Brown, already wounded, having walked or run away from the car, suddenly turn around at a distance of 40 feet or more and charge an armed policeman, with a gun pointed at him, like a mad wounded animal? I have NEVER been able to believe this, sorry. Even for a dumb thug like Brown it doesn't make any sense. Sure it's possible. But I don't buy it.

So you think it's more plausible that Wilson basically executed him, correct? With all the evidence, including Brown's actions in the convenience store, where we saw him push an old man, then turn around and walk towards him in a menacing manner, you choose to believe that Wilson shot him for no reason.

No, that's never made sense to me either. My hunch (and that's all it is) is that Brown stupidly attacked Wilson like the thug he is, and ran away. And then Wilson lost his cool and shot Brown to death.

At what point does Wilson shoot him?

Well we're pretty sure he was shot once at the car. And then Wilson shot him outside of the car, at some kind of distance.

 

[timschochet]

Wait a minute, the kid walked up to a cop and punched him while he was sitting in his cruiser? Case closed, justified shooting.

There is no real evidence of this other than Wilson's testimony.

Or the pictures of the bruises on Wilson's face, neck and head. Unless you believe that Wilson pulled a Jim Carey in Liar Liar.

As I wrote, there's some dispute over the seriousness of these injuries. But more importantly, we don't know who initiated the struggle.

 

[timschochet]

I still don't see why people argue with Tim other than to issue declaratives so that people reading the posts and not the whole thread don't accept his declarations at face value.

I haven't made any declarations other than: I DON'T KNOW.

And that you understand all cultures\races\times\causes at a significantly deeper level that none of us will ever understand.

No.

So you say now. I can't take the time to review all 80k posts that you have in this forum but you are notorious for this practice in any debate.

Not really. If I have a disagreement, I always explain my reasoning. I don't hold myself out as somehow smarter than everyone else. I'm certainly not.

 

[timschochet]

Ahhh, of course they've tied up traffic. They don't realize -- or don't care -- that their fellow citizens in cars paid for the roads, too.

LIke I said earlier, and with a hat tip to a famous internet commenter, you'll get more of what you encourage.

Don't these people realize that there are other people which might need to get to the hospitals? Not just ambulances, either.

Yeah, who do they think they are, Chris Christie?

One dumb act doesn't justify another.

 

[Billy Bats]

So based on the above article, we really don't know whether Brown tried to seize Wilson's gun or not. We really don't know how far the distance was between them when Wilson fatally shot Brown. For both of these, so far as I know, all we have is Wilson's testimony plus several unreliable witnesses who contradict each other. Many of you have simply bought into Wilson's claims without questioning them at all. Many of you have treated them as undisputable facts, and have used them to justify all or most of your thinking on this issue. And they may be what actually happened. But we don't know.

Simple question - do you believe that Mike Brown assaulted Officer Wilson?

Simple answer: yes. It is my hunch that he did. Michael Brown was a stupid thug. However I don't know for sure. Did Michael Brown try to seize Wilson's gun? I have no ####### idea.Did Michael Brown, already wounded, having walked or run away from the car, suddenly turn around at a distance of 40 feet or more and charge an armed policeman, with a gun pointed at him, like a mad wounded animal? I have NEVER been able to believe this, sorry. Even for a dumb thug like Brown it doesn't make any sense. Sure it's possible. But I don't buy it.

So you think it's more plausible that Wilson basically executed him, correct? With all the evidence, including Brown's actions in the convenience store, where we saw him push an old man, then turn around and walk towards him in a menacing manner, you choose to believe that Wilson shot him for no reason.

No, that's never made sense to me either. My hunch (and that's all it is) is that Brown stupidly attacked Wilson like the thug he is, and ran away. And then Wilson lost his cool and shot Brown to death.

At what point does Wilson shoot him?

Well we're pretty sure he was shot once at the car. And then Wilson shot him outside of the car, at some kind of distance.

Is it your belief that Brown was running away or surrendering while he was shot to death?

 

[timschochet]

So based on the above article, we really don't know whether Brown tried to seize Wilson's gun or not. We really don't know how far the distance was between them when Wilson fatally shot Brown. For both of these, so far as I know, all we have is Wilson's testimony plus several unreliable witnesses who contradict each other. Many of you have simply bought into Wilson's claims without questioning them at all. Many of you have treated them as undisputable facts, and have used them to justify all or most of your thinking on this issue. And they may be what actually happened. But we don't know.

Simple question - do you believe that Mike Brown assaulted Officer Wilson?

Simple answer: yes. It is my hunch that he did. Michael Brown was a stupid thug. However I don't know for sure. Did Michael Brown try to seize Wilson's gun? I have no ####### idea.Did Michael Brown, already wounded, having walked or run away from the car, suddenly turn around at a distance of 40 feet or more and charge an armed policeman, with a gun pointed at him, like a mad wounded animal? I have NEVER been able to believe this, sorry. Even for a dumb thug like Brown it doesn't make any sense. Sure it's possible. But I don't buy it.

So you think it's more plausible that Wilson basically executed him, correct? With all the evidence, including Brown's actions in the convenience store, where we saw him push an old man, then turn around and walk towards him in a menacing manner, you choose to believe that Wilson shot him for no reason.

No, that's never made sense to me either. My hunch (and that's all it is) is that Brown stupidly attacked Wilson like the thug he is, and ran away. And then Wilson lost his cool and shot Brown to death.

At what point does Wilson shoot him?

Well we're pretty sure he was shot once at the car. And then Wilson shot him outside of the car, at some kind of distance.

Is it your belief that Brown was running away or surrendering while he was shot to death?

I don't know. I don't think he was charging though.

 

[timschochet]

I don't want to argue this with you, Billy Bats, because I honestly don't now what happened and I don't want to defend a hunch. My point is that none of really know what happened. Based on what I do know, there does not appear to be enough evidence to indict Officer Wilson of a crime. Is that fair enough?

 

[Billy Bats]

I don't want to argue this with you, Billy Bats, because I honestly don't now what happened and I don't want to defend a hunch. My point is that none of really know what happened. Based on what I do know, there does not appear to be enough evidence to indict Officer Wilson of a crime. Is that fair enough?

No arguing, just curious as to what you believe happened and why. No matter to me either way, I was actually looking to provide you links and info if there was something you might not have known.

 

[TheAristocrat]

I still don't see why people argue with Tim other than to issue declaratives so that people reading the posts and not the whole thread don't accept his declarations at face value.

I haven't made any declarations other than: I DON'T KNOW.

And that you understand all cultures\races\times\causes at a significantly deeper level that none of us will ever understand.

No.

So you say now. I can't take the time to review all 80k posts that you have in this forum but you are notorious for this practice in any debate.

Not really. If I have a disagreement, I always explain my reasoning. I don't hold myself out as somehow smarter than everyone else. I'm certainly not.

We do not agree on many political issues but I want to sincerely say that I accept that you DO reason however I also feel that you need to argue the specifics personally and it shows in your debate. I don't agree with your findings many times. You aren't a bad person for that. We just have differences.

There are some that would never want to sit in closed quarters with you in this forum. I would actually enjoy a beer over any discussion just for the fun of it. As Prince once said "Differences? Differences. Why don't we focus on our similarities?"

You're a weird dude, Tim. But that doesn't mean that we couldn't be friends. I like the weird peoples.

 

[squistion]

I keep thinking back to the distance thing. 30 feet. 10 yards. Assuming Wilson felt his life was in danger, how close should he have allowed Brown to come? 10 yards seems awful close. If he has to be in arms reach, why do we allow cops to carry firearms. Maybe they should just have a sharp stick.

In his interview he said Brown got to within 8-10 feet then he started back pedaling.

In the interview on ABC tonight he agreed when the interviewer asked him if he shot him at 35-40 feet. Did he later disagree?

If only Wilson was interrogated like the witnesses that contradicted his version of events were.

How do you know he wasn't?

From the grand jury testimony that has been released.

 

[baymen]

15 minute delay, but I'm home... I'm sure you've all been waiting for this update... Goodnight britches 1

Move out of NYC. You don't have it or the whole fabric of the city has changed since I lived there and not in a good way.

 

[Raider Nation]

Larry O'Donnell is just destroying Wilson on MSNBC.

 

[rockaction]

Larry O'Donnell is just destroying Wilson on MSNBC.

Lawrence O'Donnell is a Democratic hack thug. This should be awesome.

 

[The General]

Larry O'Donnell is just destroying Wilson on MSNBC.

I'm watching this.

He's making some good points - the 100 yards away thing - but also jumping to some questionable conclusions - all over a guy slightly changing the wording of how he saw the kids walking down the street.

 

[Raider Nation]

Larry O'Donnell is just destroying Wilson on MSNBC.

I'm watching this.

He's making some good points - the 100 yards away thing - but also jumping to some questionable conclusions - all over a guy slightly changing the wording of how he saw the kids walking down the street.

Yeah, if you missed the opening, he did everything except flat-out call Wilson a liar.

 

[rockaction]

O'Donnell called himself a "practical European socialist" in a 2005 interview.[2] Despite regularly expressing support for regulated capitalism andmixed economies, O'Donnell again declared himself a "socialist" on the November 6, 2010 Morning Joe show, stating: "I am not a progressive. I am not a liberal who is so afraid of the word that I had to change my name to 'progressive'. Liberals amuse me. I am a socialist. I lie to the extreme left, the extreme left of you mere liberals."

It's nice when you don't even know the timeline of "progressivism" and "liberalism." Shall I write him?

 

[mcintyre1]

So based on the above article, we really don't know whether Brown tried to seize Wilson's gun or not. We really don't know how far the distance was between them when Wilson fatally shot Brown. For both of these, so far as I know, all we have is Wilson's testimony plus several unreliable witnesses who contradict each other. Many of you have simply bought into Wilson's claims without questioning them at all. Many of you have treated them as undisputable facts, and have used them to justify all or most of your thinking on this issue. And they may be what actually happened. But we don't know.

Simple question - do you believe that Mike Brown assaulted Officer Wilson?

Simple answer: yes. It is my hunch that he did. Michael Brown was a stupid thug. However I don't know for sure. Did Michael Brown try to seize Wilson's gun? I have no ####### idea.Did Michael Brown, already wounded, having walked or run away from the car, suddenly turn around at a distance of 40 feet or more and charge an armed policeman, with a gun pointed at him, like a mad wounded animal? I have NEVER been able to believe this, sorry. Even for a dumb thug like Brown it doesn't make any sense. Sure it's possible. But I don't buy it.

It might not make sense, but evidently enough witnesses testified to the grand jury to convince them that it happened, and when considered in this context, it led them to decide that Officer Wilson's actions were not in violation of the law.

I've read two out of the possible 60+ witnesses indicate that they saw Brown "charge" at Wilson. I'm trying to find news articles that can provide more detail, as its very time consuming reading the direct transcripts for actual useful information (half a page will be "uhh" or "yes", "uh huh"). (EDIT: to clarify, I've read about 15 of the 29 interviews provided in the evidence dump)

One of those accounts is only relayed as three pages copied out of a journal identified as "Witness 40", with no transcripts provided of an interview with police or in front of the grand jury that I have yet seen (though the grand jury transcripts are 4000 pages of non-searchable PDF). That journal entry is also the one that freely admits at the start of the entry that they are racist and concludes with two sentences providing an explanation for why the witness story was not provided sooner.

The other person was interviewed by police two days after the shooting, was far enough away he could hear no shouting (Witness 40 described "screaming" to the point that she couldn't understand what was being said), and was viewing from an angle down the street in which Officer Wilson might have partially obscured Brown from view.

 

[SIDA!]

SaintsinDome2006

I wouldn't necessarily call myself a conservative, but I am definitely on the right side of the political spectrum.

I think there are a ton of police brutality issues where officers are not punished for their wrongful actions. I think there are many cops who lie and massage reports to fit the narrative they need to get off. I think the officers in the Kelly Thomas murder, not killing, should be in prison.

Here is my beef with Officer Wilson and where I think much more attention should be focused. His initial contact with Brown is troubling. I could easily envision a scenario where he approached Brown in the middle of the street and said something is a rather abrasive or authoritarian manner. I have had numerous instances where officers approached me and their initial contact/tone was authoritative/quasi threatening. The problem with many police officers is that they treat every person they deal with like they are a a dirtbag. It is highly infuriating.

Putting my little feud with Sprouts aside...I agree with some of the sentiments he expressed with the tone/manner in which they have behaved towards him.

Now, after that initial contact, there really isn't anything I can really blame/fault the officer for doing. But, had Wilson just drove on by and dealt with more pressing matters than trying to scold Brown for walking in the street or playing the authoritarian card...then I think the situation probably would have been different.

until he hears about the robbery at the store and description and realizes he just saw that guy and goes back to get him ...seems like something was going to go down one way or another...Brown seemed to think because he`s so big he can do as he pleased....and it cost him his life....i still have an issue with shooting an unarmed person from that distance but it seems the law allows cops to shoot unarmed people if they are deemed a risk to injure or kill someone

When I first typed that post, I was wondering if I should elaborate on the bolded part a little more. There very well may have been a conflict of some kind no matter what. But my understanding of the events is that he stopped Brown in the middle of the street...words of some kind were exchanged during an unknown duration of time and then Wilson drove off before backing up and re-engaging Brown.

It is not inconceivable to think that perhaps Wilson goes down the street without stopping Brown in the middle of the street and it doesn't register that that was the suspect in the store theft. Or maybe he turns the corner and then it clicks and he circles back. At that point he engages Brown in some fashion and maybe Brown and Johnson decide to flee on foot. I dunno. Purely speculation obviously.

One other note: People keep harping on Brown being unarmed. Correct me if I am wrong, but how in the world is Wilson supposed to know with absolute certainty that Brown is unarmed at the time he shoots him. I have never really understood this line of thinking that just because he is unarmed that (a) and officer is supposed to know this and (b) the suspect is incapable of harming or killing an officer even if he is unarmed.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Larry O'Donnell is just destroying Wilson on MSNBC.

Ahhhh.... That explains why Daniel Fells outplayed him on Sunday night... I guess He's been a bit preoccupied as of late

 

[Drunken Poster]

...

You got dragged into this disaster? The day the FFA died

 

[rockaction]

...

You got dragged into this disaster? The day the FFA died

Cleaver, brah.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

If it's not the job of POTUS to comment on ongoing investigations then why does he keep doing it?

 

[mcintyre1]

SaintsinDome2006

I wouldn't necessarily call myself a conservative, but I am definitely on the right side of the political spectrum.

I think there are a ton of police brutality issues where officers are not punished for their wrongful actions. I think there are many cops who lie and massage reports to fit the narrative they need to get off. I think the officers in the Kelly Thomas murder, not killing, should be in prison.

Here is my beef with Officer Wilson and where I think much more attention should be focused. His initial contact with Brown is troubling. I could easily envision a scenario where he approached Brown in the middle of the street and said something is a rather abrasive or authoritarian manner. I have had numerous instances where officers approached me and their initial contact/tone was authoritative/quasi threatening. The problem with many police officers is that they treat every person they deal with like they are a a dirtbag. It is highly infuriating.

Putting my little feud with Sprouts aside...I agree with some of the sentiments he expressed with the tone/manner in which they have behaved towards him.

Now, after that initial contact, there really isn't anything I can really blame/fault the officer for doing. But, had Wilson just drove on by and dealt with more pressing matters than trying to scold Brown for walking in the street or playing the authoritarian card...then I think the situation probably would have been different.

until he hears about the robbery at the store and description and realizes he just saw that guy and goes back to get him ...seems like something was going to go down one way or another...Brown seemed to think because he`s so big he can do as he pleased....and it cost him his life....i still have an issue with shooting an unarmed person from that distance but it seems the law allows cops to shoot unarmed people if they are deemed a risk to injure or kill someone

When I first typed that post, I was wondering if I should elaborate on the bolded part a little more. There very well may have been a conflict of some kind no matter what. But my understanding of the events is that he stopped Brown in the middle of the street...words of some kind were exchanged during an unknown duration of time and then Wilson drove off before backing up and re-engaging Brown.

It is not inconceivable to think that perhaps Wilson goes down the street without stopping Brown in the middle of the street and it doesn't register that that was the suspect in the store theft. Or maybe he turns the corner and then it clicks and he circles back. At that point he engages Brown in some fashion and maybe Brown and Johnson decide to flee on foot. I dunno. Purely speculation obviously.

One other note: People keep harping on Brown being unarmed. Correct me if I am wrong, but how in the world is Wilson supposed to know with absolute certainty that Brown is unarmed at the time he shoots him. I have never really understood this line of thinking that just because he is unarmed that (a) and officer is supposed to know this and (b) the suspect is incapable of harming or killing an officer even if he is unarmed.

I agree that he couldn't have known for sure. However, he claims both that Brown was beating him so hard that he feared for his life, and that Brown tried to take the officer's gun. Why would he bother beating him with his fists and stealing the officer's gun if he had immediate access to a knife or, worse, a gun?

 

[timschochet]

If it's not the job of POTUS to comment on ongoing investigations then why does he keep doing it?

What ongoing investigation?

 

[Bucky86]

If it's not the job of POTUS to comment on ongoing investigations then why does he keep doing it?

What ongoing investigation?

BENGHAZI

 

[rockaction]

If it's not the job of POTUS to comment on ongoing investigations then why does he keep doing it?

It's his job to at least try and bring the peace in national situations like this. In fact, it's pretty much, outside of executing the laws, what the Founders envisioned. A rhetorical figurehead and faithfull (no sic) executor of the legislature's will.

Once admin justice hits, all bets are off. But this is specifically supposed to be part of his role, IIRC.

 

[rockaction]

If it's not the job of POTUS to comment on ongoing investigations then why does he keep doing it?

What ongoing investigation?

BENGHAZI

You do love you some Benghazi. Like conservatives love them some "Bush lied, people died" shtick.

 

[SIDA!]

So based on the above article, we really don't know whether Brown tried to seize Wilson's gun or not. We really don't know how far the distance was between them when Wilson fatally shot Brown. For both of these, so far as I know, all we have is Wilson's testimony plus several unreliable witnesses who contradict each other. Many of you have simply bought into Wilson's claims without questioning them at all. Many of you have treated them as undisputable facts, and have used them to justify all or most of your thinking on this issue. And they may be what actually happened. But we don't know.

Simple question - do you believe that Mike Brown assaulted Officer Wilson?

Simple answer: yes. It is my hunch that he did. Michael Brown was a stupid thug. However I don't know for sure. Did Michael Brown try to seize Wilson's gun? I have no ####### idea.Did Michael Brown, already wounded, having walked or run away from the car, suddenly turn around at a distance of 40 feet or more and charge an armed policeman, with a gun pointed at him, like a mad wounded animal? I have NEVER been able to believe this, sorry. Even for a dumb thug like Brown it doesn't make any sense. Sure it's possible. But I don't buy it.

So you think it's more plausible that Wilson basically executed him, correct? With all the evidence, including Brown's actions in the convenience store, where we saw him push an old man, then turn around and walk towards him in a menacing manner, you choose to believe that Wilson shot him for no reason.

No, that's never made sense to me either. My hunch (and that's all it is) is that Brown stupidly attacked Wilson like the thug he is, and ran away. And then Wilson lost his cool and shot Brown to death.

At what point does Wilson shoot him?

Well we're pretty sure he was shot once at the car. And then Wilson shot him outside of the car, at some kind of distance.

Is it your belief that Brown was running away or surrendering while he was shot to death?

I don't know. I don't think he was charging though.

So you think it is possible that Michael Brown was backpedaling his fat ### away from the cop like a corner back, hence no bullet wounds in the back?

 

[SIDA!]

SaintsinDome2006

I wouldn't necessarily call myself a conservative, but I am definitely on the right side of the political spectrum.

I think there are a ton of police brutality issues where officers are not punished for their wrongful actions. I think there are many cops who lie and massage reports to fit the narrative they need to get off. I think the officers in the Kelly Thomas murder, not killing, should be in prison.

Here is my beef with Officer Wilson and where I think much more attention should be focused. His initial contact with Brown is troubling. I could easily envision a scenario where he approached Brown in the middle of the street and said something is a rather abrasive or authoritarian manner. I have had numerous instances where officers approached me and their initial contact/tone was authoritative/quasi threatening. The problem with many police officers is that they treat every person they deal with like they are a a dirtbag. It is highly infuriating.

Putting my little feud with Sprouts aside...I agree with some of the sentiments he expressed with the tone/manner in which they have behaved towards him.

Now, after that initial contact, there really isn't anything I can really blame/fault the officer for doing. But, had Wilson just drove on by and dealt with more pressing matters than trying to scold Brown for walking in the street or playing the authoritarian card...then I think the situation probably would have been different.

until he hears about the robbery at the store and description and realizes he just saw that guy and goes back to get him ...seems like something was going to go down one way or another...Brown seemed to think because he`s so big he can do as he pleased....and it cost him his life....i still have an issue with shooting an unarmed person from that distance but it seems the law allows cops to shoot unarmed people if they are deemed a risk to injure or kill someone

When I first typed that post, I was wondering if I should elaborate on the bolded part a little more. There very well may have been a conflict of some kind no matter what. But my understanding of the events is that he stopped Brown in the middle of the street...words of some kind were exchanged during an unknown duration of time and then Wilson drove off before backing up and re-engaging Brown.

It is not inconceivable to think that perhaps Wilson goes down the street without stopping Brown in the middle of the street and it doesn't register that that was the suspect in the store theft. Or maybe he turns the corner and then it clicks and he circles back. At that point he engages Brown in some fashion and maybe Brown and Johnson decide to flee on foot. I dunno. Purely speculation obviously.

One other note: People keep harping on Brown being unarmed. Correct me if I am wrong, but how in the world is Wilson supposed to know with absolute certainty that Brown is unarmed at the time he shoots him. I have never really understood this line of thinking that just because he is unarmed that (a) and officer is supposed to know this and (b) the suspect is incapable of harming or killing an officer even if he is unarmed.

I agree that he couldn't have known for sure. However, he claims both that Brown was beating him so hard that he feared for his life, and that Brown tried to take the officer's gun. Why would he bother beating him with his fists and stealing the officer's gun if he had immediate access to a knife or, worse, a gun?

That is a very fair question and I simply do not have a solid answer to present other than I am not sure any human being would make that mental process/draw that conclusion in the midst of being assaulted and what not. I would imagine that years and years of training and experience pounds the skull of any officer into believing/assuming any and all suspects may have a weapon and that won the day in this situation.

 

[timschochet]

OK everyone, I know you all have been waiting to hear this. The Mamba weighs in:

"The system enabled young black men to be killed behind the mask of law #Ferguson #tippingpoint #change," tweeted Kobe Bryant.

 

[Loan Sharks]

If it's not the job of POTUS to comment on ongoing investigations then why does he keep doing it?

What ongoing investigation?

I am going to guess and say the federal investigation that Obama said was ongoing in his speech.

 

[SIDA!]

OK everyone, I know you all have been waiting to hear this. The Mamba weighs in:

"The system enabled young black men to be killed behind the mask of law #Ferguson #tippingpoint #change," tweeted Kobe Bryant.

I am not sure a white basketball player has any credibility to speak on this situation...

 

[timschochet]

If it's not the job of POTUS to comment on ongoing investigations then why does he keep doing it?

What ongoing investigation?

I am going to guess and say the federal investigation that Obama said was ongoing in his speech.

He didn't comment on that. (Other to say it was ongoing.)

 

[Daywalker]

I think all officers like Wilson should be wearing a camera.

Lot of us don't want that because cops have a tough job and sometimes they got to get down and dirty while entering grey areas to get the job done. NYPD Blue style like we see on tv.

I understand that but the trade off is a large segment of the population has to deal with a lot of harassment/suspicion that the the other part would not put up with.

Our justice system is set up to let a lot more guilty people go free then lock up a non-guilty person.

I think what Wilson did was appropriate. But crime at it lowest in decades. Make the cops wear cameras. The Brown case is a poor substitute for the real issue.

 

[rockaction]

I think all officers like Wilson should be wearing a camera.

Lot of us don't want that because cops have a tough job and sometimes they got to get down and dirty while entering grey areas to get the job done. NYPD Blue style like we see on tv.

I understand that but the trade off is a large segment of the population has to deal with a lot of harassment/suspicion that the the other part would not put up with.

Our justice system is set up to let a lot more guilty people go free then lock up a non-guilty person.

I think what Wilson did was appropriate. But crime at it lowest in decades. Make the cops wear cameras. The Brown case is a poor substitute for the real issue.

Cameras, police oversight, police unionism and the allowance of public unions when safety or travel is at stake, and paramilitary-style police equipment out in even low-crime areas like the suburbs were all issues that should have been discussed from this.

Instead, we now have the typical circus and each political side is having a blame game with each other's political bases. The four things mentioned above could have changed so much more than national dialogues on race or rorschach tests of fact patterns, but it's lost in this garbage of "whodunit?"

 

[SIDA!]

Anyone see this video of a driver running their car through a crowd of protestors after they swarm the vehicle and running over at least one person?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJiRoRtdiSg

I am sure some of the more sane posters in this thread would have simply stopped the car, allowed the mob to beat the #### out of it and then snatch them out of the vehicle rather than risk taking another person's life...I mean, their life has value and all.