Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)

[Apple Jack]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

Your mind is really going to be blown when you learn about the nature of "forensics" and "evidence."

 

[mcintyre1]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

 

[timschochet]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

i think you already know the answer.

 

[GoBirds]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

 

[timschochet]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

Depends on the authority in question. Many people here who have accepted whatever Wilson said would reject whatever the federal government tells them, especially THIS federal government.

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

 

[SIDA!]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

I plan on being one of the thousands of white dudes rioting in the streets, looting businesses and doing my best to cause mayhem and chaos so IvanKaramazov can say, "See. I told you so!"

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

I plan on being one of the thousands of white dudes rioting in the streets, looting businesses and doing my best to cause mayhem and chaos so IvanKaramazov can say, "See. I told you so!"

Oh, you and I both know you'll be hunkered down with an arsenal and a can of beans like Treat Williams in Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead. Still.

 

[SIDA!]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

I think there is a third camp and one I put myself in.

We generally respect the law but realize that there are many officers who violate the rights of the citizenry. So although we are supportive of law enforcement in general, we are not blind to the realities of the abuse people face, in particular minorities.

However, we also think Brown was pretty much a dirt bag, doesn't deserve much sympathy, that Wilson was justifiable in his use of force based on the facts as we understand them and simply cannot fathom why the black community and other interests are hanging their hat on THIS CASE to be the standard bearer for all that is wrong with America.

 

[GoBirds]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

Makes no sense, and also most people don't really care for you whether it's because you gave them a ticket for speeding or question them for stealing.

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

Makes no sense, and also most people don't really care for you whether it's because you gave them a ticket for speeding or question them for stealing.

It does make one wonder why we don't have more community outreach with police officers spending time interacting with adults in the community in a positive, cooperative way.

 

[TobiasFunke]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

I think there is a third camp and one I put myself in.

We generally respect the law but realize that there are many officers who violate the rights of the citizenry. So although we are supportive of law enforcement in general, we are not blind to the realities of the abuse people face, in particular minorities.

However, we also think Brown was pretty much a dirt bag, doesn't deserve much sympathy, that Wilson was justifiable in his use of force based on the facts as we understand them and simply cannot fathom why the black community and other interests are hanging their hat on THIS CASE to be the standard bearer for all that is wrong with America.

I tried to explain this as I see it a couple pages ago, in this post. Obviously just one outsider's opinion, but I have been tracking the story closely from the get-go, and I'm at least sort of familiar with several other incidents that didn't get the national attention this one did and can compare those situations to this one.

 

[jonessed]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

California municipalities pay extremely well and still have major problems.

 

[rockaction]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

Your mind is really going to be blown when you learn about the nature of "forensics" and "evidence."

No, because lawyers aren't forensic experts, a point I was going to make but gently ate my hat on. If you can't figure out how a guy punches someone in the right side of the face on the driver's side, chances are you've been nowhere near a threatening situation in your car. Ever. Not even close.

 

[GoBirds]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

California municipalities pay extremely well and still have major problems.

I want to say in VA I saw they start out making less than $40k but can't recall.

 

[SIDA!]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

In California, where they all basically make six figures with a little over time after they have a couple of years experience and walk away with VERY GENEROUS pensions (3% at 50), they are very well compensated. I can't speak to other parts of the nation. But any cop entering the force at 21 years of age and retiring at 51 years of age would earn 90% of their highest annual salary every year for life...plus COLA adjustments. It is not uncommon for many cops to retire with pension benefits that approach or exceed 100% of their highest annual compensation because many are able to bank leave, vacation and sick time and cash it out in the final year they retire to bump up their benefit.

Now tell me, how much money do you think you would have to have in the bank to earn a monthly payment of $8,000...for the length of your remaining life?

 

[Henry Ford]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

Your mind is really going to be blown when you learn about the nature of "forensics" and "evidence."

No, because lawyers aren't forensic experts, a point I was going to make but gently ate my hat on. If you can't figure out how a guy punches someone in the right side of the face on the driver's side, chances are you've been nowhere near a threatening situation in your car. Ever. Not even close.

I think everyone can figure out how it happens, it's fitting it in with the existing narrative that's tougher.

 

[squistion]

For the record, I am a bleeding heart liberal

But what's sad is the number of people in this country that now have such skewed views of accountability and entitlement. Maybe it's a natural side effect of the Obama years. I don know. By it sure is interesting.

Spoken like a true bleeding heart liberal.

 

[rockaction]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

Count me in this group, and count me as somebody who has only the slightest opinion that Wilson's testimony and claims at least deserve some credence because Brown had been acting recklessly and crazy when he robbed a store and strong-armed a guy. Don't ask me about Wilson's guilt or innocence because I can't know. That's why, as I keep saying, we're missing the point of this entire case and what it could mean for discourse about how to reform the criminal justice system in fundamental, yet rather easy, ways.

eta* The easiest being cameras and stopping the paramilitary equipment inflow to police departments. Perhaps instead of purchasing tanks and combat gear, we can equip cars with a dash cam or a simple little cam that goes on the officer's badge.

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

In California, where they all basically make six figures with a little over time after they have a couple of years experience and walk away with VERY GENEROUS pensions (3% at 50), they are very well compensated. I can't speak to other parts of the nation. But any cop entering the force at 21 years of age and retiring at 51 years of age would earn 90% of their highest annual salary every year for life...plus COLA adjustments. It is not uncommon for many cops to retire with pension benefits that approach or exceed 100% of their highest annual compensation because many are able to bank leave, vacation and sick time and cash it out in the final year they retire to bump up their benefit.

Now tell me, how much money do you think you would have to have in the bank to earn a monthly payment of $8,000...for the length of your remaining life?

That's a great salary. They make nothing close to that in a lot of places in this country.

 

[whiskey7]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

Same could be said of educators and those who work in Social Services.

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

Same could be said of educators and those who work in Social Services.

I agree.

 

[GoBirds]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

Count me in this group, and count me as somebody who has only the slightest opinion that Wilson's testimony and claims at least deserve some credence because Brown had been acting recklessly and crazy when he robbed a store and strong-armed a guy. Don't ask me about Wilson's guilt or innocence because I can't know. That's why, as I keep saying, we're missing the point of this entire case and what it could mean for discourse about how to reform the criminal justice system in fundamental, yet rather easy, ways.

Camp 3 - don't trust authorities but trust criminals even less

 

[Soonerman]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

Same could be said of educators and those who work in Social Services.

I agree.

And the military, and politicians, and the DMV. Hell, let's give all government employees big raises.

 

[SIDA!]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

I think there is a third camp and one I put myself in.

We generally respect the law but realize that there are many officers who violate the rights of the citizenry. So although we are supportive of law enforcement in general, we are not blind to the realities of the abuse people face, in particular minorities.

However, we also think Brown was pretty much a dirt bag, doesn't deserve much sympathy, that Wilson was justifiable in his use of force based on the facts as we understand them and simply cannot fathom why the black community and other interests are hanging their hat on THIS CASE to be the standard bearer for all that is wrong with America.

I tried to explain this as I see it a couple pages ago, in this post. Obviously just one outsider's opinion, but I have been tracking the story closely from the get-go, and I'm at least sort of familiar with several other incidents that didn't get the national attention this one did and can compare those situations to this one.

I appreciate your explanation. But it is still lost on me as to why this specific incident is the rally cry. The situation is arguably the most diametrically worst example one could hope for. To my recollection, you have a decorated officer and a young punk who just robbed a store, assaulted an employee and physically assaulted an officer.

Take a look at the following incident. The key part happens in the first 10 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

How about rallying around this guy and going after this officer. That is the case I can get behind. That is the case that has real merit in my opinion.

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

Same could be said of educators and those who work in Social Services.

I agree.

And the military, and politicians, and the DMV. Hell, let's give all government employees big raises.

I agree on the military.

 

[Henry Ford]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

I think there is a third camp and one I put myself in.

We generally respect the law but realize that there are many officers who violate the rights of the citizenry. So although we are supportive of law enforcement in general, we are not blind to the realities of the abuse people face, in particular minorities.

However, we also think Brown was pretty much a dirt bag, doesn't deserve much sympathy, that Wilson was justifiable in his use of force based on the facts as we understand them and simply cannot fathom why the black community and other interests are hanging their hat on THIS CASE to be the standard bearer for all that is wrong with America.

I tried to explain this as I see it a couple pages ago, in this post. Obviously just one outsider's opinion, but I have been tracking the story closely from the get-go, and I'm at least sort of familiar with several other incidents that didn't get the national attention this one did and can compare those situations to this one.

I appreciate your explanation. But it is still lost on me as to why this specific incident is the rally cry. The situation is arguably the most diametrically worst example one could hope for. To my recollection, you have a decorated officer and a young punk who just robbed a store, assaulted an employee and physically assaulted an officer.

Take a look at the following incident. The key part happens in the first 10 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

How about rallying around this guy and going after this officer. That is the case I can get behind. That is the case that has real merit in my opinion.

That officer was removed from duty and charged with aggravated assault and battery and faces a potential 20 years in prison.

 

[jonessed]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

Count me in this group, and count me as somebody who has only the slightest opinion that Brown had been acting recklessly and crazy when he robbed a store and strong-armed a guy. Don't ask me about Wilson's guilt or innocence because I can't know. That's why, as I keep saying, we're missing the point of this entire case and what it could mean for discourse about how to reform the criminal justice system in fundamental, yet rather easy, ways.

Hell, I have a healthy distrust of police in general. This is just a really bad example of police misconduct. There's nothing here but conspiracy theories. It's a shame that this is the case people chose as the bellwether.

 

[Soonerman]

I don't trust the cops or the criminals. But a group of citizens said this is a big nothingburger of a case. I do trust them somewhat more.

 

[GoBirds]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

Do you think they could really secure a win? Just curious and with a jury who knows but doesn't seem like much evidence that can really be trusted to convict.

Can't imagine anyone ever wanting to be a cop if that did happen. Make no money, risk your life daily, potentially go to jail for in your mind protecting yourself in a life threatening situation.

It does make one wonder why we underpay law enforcement and expect to have a fantastic police force.

Same could be said of educators and those who work in Social Services.

Wife's a teacher, I'm on board for sure.

 

[GoBirds]

I don't trust the cops or the criminals. But a group of citizens said this is a big nothingburger of a case. I do trust them somewhat more.

Exactly

 

[Sand]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

Or maybe those that accept the judgement of 12 disinterested parties, parties that as a whole represent the community that they have been asked to speak for, that have had all the evidence presented to them?

 

[SIDA!]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

I think there is a third camp and one I put myself in.

We generally respect the law but realize that there are many officers who violate the rights of the citizenry. So although we are supportive of law enforcement in general, we are not blind to the realities of the abuse people face, in particular minorities.

However, we also think Brown was pretty much a dirt bag, doesn't deserve much sympathy, that Wilson was justifiable in his use of force based on the facts as we understand them and simply cannot fathom why the black community and other interests are hanging their hat on THIS CASE to be the standard bearer for all that is wrong with America.

I tried to explain this as I see it a couple pages ago, in this post. Obviously just one outsider's opinion, but I have been tracking the story closely from the get-go, and I'm at least sort of familiar with several other incidents that didn't get the national attention this one did and can compare those situations to this one.

I appreciate your explanation. But it is still lost on me as to why this specific incident is the rally cry. The situation is arguably the most diametrically worst example one could hope for. To my recollection, you have a decorated officer and a young punk who just robbed a store, assaulted an employee and physically assaulted an officer.

Take a look at the following incident. The key part happens in the first 10 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

How about rallying around this guy and going after this officer. That is the case I can get behind. That is the case that has real merit in my opinion.

That officer was removed from duty and charged with aggravated assault and battery and faces a potential 20 years in prison.

I know. Pretty damn good case to get pissed off about and start a good dialogue about relationships between cops and minorities.

 

[saintfool]

So tell us how you are going to analyze the trustworthiness of Wilson and the Ferguson PD to expose the injustices to the nice young man that attacked him after robbing a store. Sorry the picture taken after the incident didn't show the severity you were hoping for. Ever think sometimes bruising and swelling gets worse after the injury?

yep, that's why the medical record explicitly describes it as "facial contusion". prescribed treatment for the officer? alleve. and when officer wilson gets the cramps, he'll get OTC pamprin too.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I don't trust the cops or the criminals. But a group of citizens said this is a big nothingburger of a case. I do trust them somewhat more.

Exactly

problem is we arent supposed to trust criminals...police on the other hand SHOULD be trusted ....which is why its worse when you cant

 

[TobiasFunke]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

This entire thread could probably divided into two camps:

Those who blindly accept the word of authorities as truth, and those that fundamentally don't trust authorities to police themselves.

I think there is a third camp and one I put myself in.

We generally respect the law but realize that there are many officers who violate the rights of the citizenry. So although we are supportive of law enforcement in general, we are not blind to the realities of the abuse people face, in particular minorities.

However, we also think Brown was pretty much a dirt bag, doesn't deserve much sympathy, that Wilson was justifiable in his use of force based on the facts as we understand them and simply cannot fathom why the black community and other interests are hanging their hat on THIS CASE to be the standard bearer for all that is wrong with America.

I tried to explain this as I see it a couple pages ago, in this post. Obviously just one outsider's opinion, but I have been tracking the story closely from the get-go, and I'm at least sort of familiar with several other incidents that didn't get the national attention this one did and can compare those situations to this one.

I appreciate your explanation. But it is still lost on me as to why this specific incident is the rally cry. The situation is arguably the most diametrically worst example one could hope for. To my recollection, you have a decorated officer and a young punk who just robbed a store, assaulted an employee and physically assaulted an officer.

Take a look at the following incident. The key part happens in the first 10 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

How about rallying around this guy and going after this officer. That is the case I can get behind. That is the case that has real merit in my opinion.

That officer was removed from duty and charged with aggravated assault and battery and faces a potential 20 years in prison.

I can't watch the video so I don't know what incident that is, but this is generally the difference between the Ferguson incident and the many others I'm aware of- the way the police circled the wagons and seemed primarily far more interested in protecting their own than in serving the community. There were literally dozens of examples in the days and weeks following the incident, starting from the moment the body hit the pavement and going right through the conduct of the prosecutors in the grand jury proceedings.

Contrast it with, say, the Cleveland incident that's in the news right now. We already have the name of the shooter and a video of the incident disseminated by the police and a 3.5 hour community forum conducted by the mayor and so on and son on. Night and day from the behavior of the authorities in Ferguson.

 

[Sand]

I don't trust the cops or the criminals. But a group of citizens said this is a big nothingburger of a case. I do trust them somewhat more.

Exactly

problem is we arent supposed to trust criminals...police on the other hand SHOULD be trusted ....which is why its worse when you cant

But, funny enough, in this case the officer's story has been shown to be accurate and true.

 

[GrandpaRox]

Doesn't it make much more sense that Brown, who was a stupid thug, tried to punch Wilson, maybe even went for Wilson's gun, failed and got shot in the hand, took off and fled, so Wilson got out of the car, yells at Brown to stop, Brown turns around, and Wilson in a state of fury and fear shoots him dead? That's a story I can buy. I don't even particularly blame Wilson (though it would be a wrongful death). But this charging stuff has got to be nonsense.

I believe this is a rough sketch of what happened, but that there was a little more going on at the "Brown turns around" step. That was a hair-trigger moment when a sudden, typically-innocuous movement leads to shots fired.

Fair enough. I can buy that. I would suggest that the full blown charge was fabricated afterward.

however they had witnesses saying that Wilson was firing at Brown as Brown was running away...then brown stopped and turned and was shot at again as he moved forward

Those witnesses were discredited, who do you hangers on just dismiss ALL the evidence the evidence that the Grand Jury heard, do you think they missed something, they are racists or you are just smarted than them. Did you even read the transcript. You just continue to show your ignorance and kind of hope you are going to find the missing key. You are not as bad as Tim but jebus, the system worked and you just cannot accept it. WTF is wrong with you.

 

[GoBirds]

I don't trust the cops or the criminals. But a group of citizens said this is a big nothingburger of a case. I do trust them somewhat more.

Exactly

problem is we arent supposed to trust criminals...police on the other hand SHOULD be trusted ....which is why its worse when you cant

Totally agree but we are really just speculating that they can't be trusted here. A grand jury of citizens just reviewed more than we ever will and made a decision. So people want it to go to trial to reach the same conclusion and deal with the same riots at that point?

 

[Soonerman]

I don't trust the cops or the criminals. But a group of citizens said this is a big nothingburger of a case. I do trust them somewhat more.

Exactly

problem is we arent supposed to trust criminals...police on the other hand SHOULD be trusted ....which is why its worse when you cant

No they shouldn't. They are armed agents of the government. They should be warily watched, not trusted.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't trust the cops or the criminals. But a group of citizens said this is a big nothingburger of a case. I do trust them somewhat more.

Exactly

problem is we arent supposed to trust criminals...police on the other hand SHOULD be trusted ....which is why its worse when you cant

But, funny enough, in this case the officer's story has been shown to be accurate and true.

How so? There were multiple eyewitnesses who testified to versions of the events that differ from Wilson's, and as several of us have shown here there are elements of his story that flat-out don't make sense.

The best you can say is that his story hasn't been shown to be false ... possibly because he wasn't subjected to cross-examination or any sort of challenge whatsoever by the prosecutor.

 

[GoBirds]

Doesn't it make much more sense that Brown, who was a stupid thug, tried to punch Wilson, maybe even went for Wilson's gun, failed and got shot in the hand, took off and fled, so Wilson got out of the car, yells at Brown to stop, Brown turns around, and Wilson in a state of fury and fear shoots him dead? That's a story I can buy. I don't even particularly blame Wilson (though it would be a wrongful death). But this charging stuff has got to be nonsense.

I believe this is a rough sketch of what happened, but that there was a little more going on at the "Brown turns around" step. That was a hair-trigger moment when a sudden, typically-innocuous movement leads to shots fired.

Fair enough. I can buy that. I would suggest that the full blown charge was fabricated afterward.

however they had witnesses saying that Wilson was firing at Brown as Brown was running away...then brown stopped and turned and was shot at again as he moved forward

Those witnesses were discredited, who do you hangers on just dismiss ALL the evidence the evidence that the Grand Jury heard, do you think they missed something, they are racists or you are just smarted than them. Did you even read the transcript. You just continue to show your ignorance and kind of hope you are going to find the missing key. You are not as bad as Tim but jebus, the system worked and you just cannot accept it. WTF is wrong with you.

Maybe the grand jury missed something a FBG message boarder was able to discover during google searches?

 

[msommer]

Hey Rick6668, please explain what physical evidence there is that Brown charged Wilson? That's what I wrote I wasn't buying.

When you examine the foot impressions Brown left in the pavement and measure the distance between them, you have your answer.

There was a blood pattern on the sidewalk, though. I thought it was established that Brown was moving forward between the first shot and the last one.

But I can't imagine that would determine 'charging' vs 'walking' towards him.

distance between spatters would seem obvious. We have the gunshot sequence (after the incident in the patrol car) on tape

 

[Smack Tripper]

For the record, I am a bleeding heart liberal, dyed in the wool Kennedy Democrat, and I am 100% supportive of Officer Wilson in this case. The Left has gone WAY off the rails on this one, and it is going to do nothing but hurt the liberal cause and result in moving more people to right side of the political spectrum.

I'm with you all the way. I do think our policing has gotten needlessly aggressive and intrusive and militarized but the defense of brown seems brown seems like right church wrong pew.

Brown was an idiot, and that isn't a sin or a crime, when were 18 most of us were idiots. But being an idiot doesn't absolve you of responsibility in this life. Brown did this to brown, not Wilson. Can even imagine attacking a policeman and going for their gun in this kind of situation.

It's to the point if the character witnesses are to be believed at all, I find it hard to believe he wasn't on pcp or something but the toxicology came back clean.

I've said this a bunch of times and I'll say it again: the protests and anger aren't based on the facts of the case as we know them. They're based on the many, many failures of law enforcement and the local government after the incident, which gave the community good reason to doubt the facts of the case as we know them (since they're being presented by law enforcement and the local government) and to respond with anger.

Now, with more information and testimony on hand, I can take a step back from a thousand miles away and conclude that this may well have been a justifiable shooting. But there's no way you can reasonably expect the local community to take that step back and reach a logical conclusion when the authorities behaved the way they did in the days and weeks after the incident. That ship sailed a looooong time ago.

All politics is local, and its human nature to be more invested with those closes to you. So to that end, I hold less derision for the people of Ferguson, and what appears to be in all fairness, a significant minority of whom have chosen to riot. It happens, its not right but as you said, at ground zero of this, I can have some understandings and I was on record earlier in this thread critqiuing the FPD for a lack of transparency. And I was initially a defender of Brown, albeit with a limited field of information.

Had we known he was responding to the crime (assuming this is supported with logs)

Had we known ballistics show all front entry wounds (supported by multiple autopsies)

Maybe the snowball might have slowed earlier.

I know a nature of the investigation dictates a deliberate pace, but likewise the perception of shooting an unarmed man with conflicting stories probably deserved to be addressed earlier.

So I'm, in a relative sense, cool, with the people of Ferguson.

But there is the broader field of people around the country, that like you and I, are not in the middle of this, invested, etc, that still choose to ignore the facts of THIS case.

For some reason, that Lena Dunham tweet, about the courage of Browns family or whatever the hell she had to say annoyed the hell out of me. And it goes on and on with several celebrities, likewise detached, all presumably who who are "anti-bullying", showing no regard for how Brown trampled through the store and chose to attack a policeman. We ARE removed, these people CAN see the testimony wherein as I understand 58 people say the same thing and 2 dispute it, and science disproves THEM. A liberal community with less emotion and basically choose to ignore them.

I don't like doing left/right stuff, I'm libertarian-ish, fiscal conservative social conservative, and this story is bringing to light an important issue with an awful core that only threatens the message. Brown is NOT worthy of nationwide protest, why NYU students are tying up traffic in NYC for this idiot, its so far beyond me, I can't even comprehend it.

I read or heard something in the last year, forget where now, maybe in a Gladwell book, that six months before Rosa Parks, a young black, unmarried, pregnant woman was the first to challenge the back of the bus rules. She was tired, she was pregnant and she was also not a good story to sell. Six months later, grandmotherly saint Rosa Parks takes HER stand and she becomes a face and a message that everyone can connect with without judgement and say "hey, this ISN'T right" and civil rights explodes.i

I don't know if we need something as big as the civil rights movement right now, but power, in every way, has been bled from the people in this country, and its probably worth attempting to reclaim some. The right face could have been a part of that. Sadly, perhaps, the right martyr.

I just don't see Mike Brown as that guy.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I don't trust the cops or the criminals. But a group of citizens said this is a big nothingburger of a case. I do trust them somewhat more.

Exactly

problem is we arent supposed to trust criminals...police on the other hand SHOULD be trusted ....which is why its worse when you cant

But, funny enough, in this case the officer's story has been shown to be accurate and true.

How so? There were multiple eyewitnesses who testified to versions of the events that differ from Wilson's, and as several of us have shown here there are elements of his story that flat-out don't make sense.

The best you can say is that his story hasn't been shown to be false ... possibly because he wasn't subjected to cross-examination or any sort of challenge whatsoever by the prosecutor.

Inaccurate versions with some being flat-out lies. Sorry, but the Grand Jury has seen ALL the evidence (not just your message board evidence) and ruled there is just nothing there.

You'll have to find some other police officer to crucify, I guess, to get that "civil rights moment" you so desperately want.

 

[timschochet]

It still comes down to this for me: for a guy to charge a police officer with a gun like that, he'd have to be ####### crazy. All right, so maybe the guy is crazy. After all, we already pretty much know he's a stupid thug.

But if he's that crazy, why did he run away from the cop in the first place? See, this is the part that just doesn't jibe with me no matter how many times I try to think through this. If we are to believe Wilson's testimony, Brown committed a crazy act (trying to attack a police officer, punching him, going for his gun), and then a sane act (running away from the police officer at full speed) and then another crazy act (turning around and charging the police officer who is firing bullets at him.) I can accept the first crazy act. I might even be able to accept the second crazy act, however unlikely it seems. But the fleeing in between- that's what makes the second crazy act seem so bogus to me.

And I totally get the argument that people don't act rationally, that people do weird things all the time, and that this is no explanation. I agree with that. But there still should be recognizable patterns to behavior. You attack an officer, you go for his gun, you fail, you get shot, you take off running- all of that fits a pattern of behavior: the pattern of Michael Brown, the stupid thug whom we saw on video earlier. Then after running away he turns around and charges Wilson? It doesn't fit. No matter how you slice it, it just doesn't fit.

 

[msommer]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

Can't believe he wasn't hospitalized with that sort of injuries

 

[MaxThreshold]

It still comes down to this for me: for a guy to charge a police officer with a gun like that, he'd have to be ####### crazy. All right, so maybe the guy is crazy. After all, we already pretty much know he's a stupid thug.

But if he's that crazy, why did he run away from the cop in the first place? See, this is the part that just doesn't jibe with me no matter how many times I try to think through this. If we are to believe Wilson's testimony, Brown committed a crazy act (trying to attack a police officer, punching him, going for his gun), and then a sane act (running away from the police officer at full speed) and then another crazy act (turning around and charging the police officer who is firing bullets at him.) I can accept the first crazy act. I might even be able to accept the second crazy act, however unlikely it seems. But the fleeing in between- that's what makes the second crazy act seem so bogus to me.

And I totally get the argument that people don't act rationally, that people do weird things all the time, and that this is no explanation. I agree with that. But there still should be recognizable patterns to behavior. You attack an officer, you go for his gun, you fail, you get shot, you take off running- all of that fits a pattern of behavior: the pattern of Michael Brown, the stupid thug whom we saw on video earlier. Then after running away he turns around and charges Wilson? It doesn't fit. No matter how you slice it, it just doesn't fit.

Wilson was NOT firing his gun at Brown while he was supposedly running away. The autopsy has proven that.

 

[Soonerman]

It still comes down to this for me: for a guy to charge a police officer with a gun like that, he'd have to be ####### crazy. All right, so maybe the guy is crazy. After all, we already pretty much know he's a stupid thug.

But if he's that crazy, why did he run away from the cop in the first place? See, this is the part that just doesn't jibe with me no matter how many times I try to think through this. If we are to believe Wilson's testimony, Brown committed a crazy act (trying to attack a police officer, punching him, going for his gun), and then a sane act (running away from the police officer at full speed) and then another crazy act (turning around and charging the police officer who is firing bullets at him.) I can accept the first crazy act. I might even be able to accept the second crazy act, however unlikely it seems. But the fleeing in between- that's what makes the second crazy act seem so bogus to me.

And I totally get the argument that people don't act rationally, that people do weird things all the time, and that this is no explanation. I agree with that. But there still should be recognizable patterns to behavior. You attack an officer, you go for his gun, you fail, you get shot, you take off running- all of that fits a pattern of behavior: the pattern of Michael Brown, the stupid thug whom we saw on video earlier. Then after running away he turns around and charges Wilson? It doesn't fit. No matter how you slice it, it just doesn't fit.

He was high on weed.

 

[timschochet]

It still comes down to this for me: for a guy to charge a police officer with a gun like that, he'd have to be ####### crazy. All right, so maybe the guy is crazy. After all, we already pretty much know he's a stupid thug.

But if he's that crazy, why did he run away from the cop in the first place? See, this is the part that just doesn't jibe with me no matter how many times I try to think through this. If we are to believe Wilson's testimony, Brown committed a crazy act (trying to attack a police officer, punching him, going for his gun), and then a sane act (running away from the police officer at full speed) and then another crazy act (turning around and charging the police officer who is firing bullets at him.) I can accept the first crazy act. I might even be able to accept the second crazy act, however unlikely it seems. But the fleeing in between- that's what makes the second crazy act seem so bogus to me.

And I totally get the argument that people don't act rationally, that people do weird things all the time, and that this is no explanation. I agree with that. But there still should be recognizable patterns to behavior. You attack an officer, you go for his gun, you fail, you get shot, you take off running- all of that fits a pattern of behavior: the pattern of Michael Brown, the stupid thug whom we saw on video earlier. Then after running away he turns around and charges Wilson? It doesn't fit. No matter how you slice it, it just doesn't fit.

Wilson was NOT firing his gun at Brown while he was supposedly running away. The autopsy has proven that.

I didn't write that. I wrote that Brown charged Wilson at the same time as Wilson firing at him- according to Wilson I mean. Not afterward.