Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)

[Two Deep]

picture of crime scene showing the start of blood trail to the point where he dropped dead

looks like he was doing the serpentine.

 

[kentric]

4 and a half minutes of silence in NY for Michael Brown? Are you ####### kidding me? Let me get this straight, if I want to be an immortalized hero in America all I have to do is rob a convenience sore, bully an old man, walk in the middle of the street, talk back to a cop, punch him, try to grab his gun, and then disobey his commands when he draws his gun and continue to walk towards him?And people have the nerve to mention this punk in the same sentence as Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks. What a joke.

Um, Michael Brown is not being immortalized as a hero in America. Maybe in a parallel universe, but not in this one.

LOL. Dude, a crowd of about 2,000 people just stopped in front of the United Nations and observed a moment of silence "in his memory" for 4 and a half minutes!! That might be the longest moment of silence in history, at least since Borat. And do you not see all the people wearing Michael Brown shirts and hats? People are going to be naming their children after this piece of ####.

He is considered a victim. That is what the silence was for. He is not being recognized by anyone as a hero from what I have seen.

Michael Brown a victim???1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

And Mike Brown was a victim? Please tell me, in what crazy, fukced up universe is a belligerent assshat like this considered a victim?

Obviously I don't buy your version of events. This was an unarmed teenager shot 30-40 feet away according to witnesses. That qualifies as a victim to me. And the robbery is irrelevant to his shooting since it didn't appear that Wilson knew about it.

You really need to catch up with the story if you want to make any sense in your posts. The GJ testimony states that Wilson did in fact know aobut the robbery.

This is based only on Wilson's testimony before the grand jury. Nothing was mentioned on this before he appeared in front of the grand jury. Very convenient and self-serving testimony for Wilson that he remembered hearing the police reports, which can't be disputed since it would impossible to prove that he didn't or that he actually made the connection with two black guys jaywalking. .

I understood it as more than just Wilson's testimony. Wilson called into the dispatcher. He also called for backup. Not sure he'd do that just for a guy walking in the middle of the street. Perhaps you're right thought. Hopefully someone who has read through the evidence can add more color to this.

 

[SIDA!]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

I keep seeing these pictures and I guess I am missing the injuries

The injuries don't appear to be all that severe in the grand scheme of things. But, I guess my question is why do they need to appear to be severe. Clearly, Brown struck Wilson in the face at least once in the vehicle where an officer is in an incredibly compromised position.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

4 and a half minutes of silence in NY for Michael Brown? Are you ####### kidding me? Let me get this straight, if I want to be an immortalized hero in America all I have to do is rob a convenience sore, bully an old man, walk in the middle of the street, talk back to a cop, punch him, try to grab his gun, and then disobey his commands when he draws his gun and continue to walk towards him?And people have the nerve to mention this punk in the same sentence as Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks. What a joke.

Um, Michael Brown is not being immortalized as a hero in America. Maybe in a parallel universe, but not in this one.

LOL. Dude, a crowd of about 2,000 people just stopped in front of the United Nations and observed a moment of silence "in his memory" for 4 and a half minutes!! That might be the longest moment of silence in history, at least since Borat. And do you not see all the people wearing Michael Brown shirts and hats? People are going to be naming their children after this piece of ####.

He is considered a victim. That is what the silence was for. He is not being recognized by anyone as a hero from what I have seen.

Michael Brown a victim???1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

And Mike Brown was a victim? Please tell me, in what crazy, fukced up universe is a belligerent assshat like this considered a victim?

Obviously I don't buy your version of events. This was an unarmed teenager shot 30-40 feet away according to witnesses. That qualifies as a victim to me. And the robbery is irrelevant to his shooting since it didn't appear that Wilson knew about it.

You really need to catch up with the story if you want to make any sense in your posts. The GJ testimony states that Wilson did in fact know aobut the robbery.

This is based only on Wilson's testimony before the grand jury. Nothing was mentioned on this before he appeared in front of the grand jury. Very convenient and self-serving testimony for Wilson that he remembered hearing the police reports, which can't be disputed since it would impossible to prove that he didn't or that he actually made the connection with two black guys jaywalking. .

I understood it as more than just Wilson's testimony. Wilson called into the dispatcher. He also called for backup. Not sure he'd do that just for a guy walking in the middle of the street. Perhaps you're right thought. Hopefully someone who has read through the evidence can add more color to this.

in an interview last night Wilson stated that he called for back up AFTER the shooting in the cruiser

 

[avoiding injuries]

So far this thread has been a complete KO of the Brown supporters by the Wilson supporters since the GJ results.

i dont think anyone is actually supporting brown as much as asking how can you justify shooting an unarmed person 6 times from a distance and it doesnt go to trial

The prosecutor explained it pretty well. If people can't figure it out after hearing what he said, they're never going to accept how it happened. We are now focusing on how someone gets hit in the right cheek with a right fist. Seriously, that's the level of inconsistency people are going after now.

 

[lod01]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

I keep seeing these pictures and I guess I am missing the injuries

The injuries don't appear to be all that severe in the grand scheme of things. But, I guess my question is why do they need to appear to be severe. Clearly, Brown struck Wilson in the face at least once in the vehicle where an officer is in an incredibly compromised position.

There is a huge exaggeration by the Brown camp as to what the injuries should look like. They (and Nancy Grace - gotta group them in with her same logic in order to really show how ridiculous they are) think Wilson should look like an MMA fighter alter 3 rounds of punishment.

 

[lod01]

in an interview last night Wilson stated that he called for back up AFTER the shooting in the cruiser

And there is some point to this statement?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

I keep seeing these pictures and I guess I am missing the injuries

The injuries don't appear to be all that severe in the grand scheme of things. But, I guess my question is why do they need to appear to be severe. Clearly, Brown struck Wilson in the face at least once in the vehicle where an officer is in an incredibly compromised position.

Because Wilson said they were severe, to the point where he worried that the next one might be fatal and that he felt "like a 5 year old holding on to Hulk Hogan." If he's lying about that, the credibility of his account of the rest of the incident becomes a lot more problematic too. He also reportedly told a friend that he had suffered an "orbital fracture" and the Ferguson chief of police reported that he had a "swollen face." Both of those also appear to be lies, although I guess swelling is subjective.

 

[lod01]

So far this thread has been a complete KO of the Brown supporters by the Wilson supporters since the GJ results.

i dont think anyone is actually supporting brown as much as asking how can you justify shooting an unarmed person 6 times from a distance and it doesnt go to trial

The prosecutor explained it pretty well. If people can't figure it out after hearing what he said, they're never going to accept how it happened.We are now focusing on how someone gets hit in the right cheek with a right fist. Seriously, that's the level of inconsistency people are going after now.

So far everything they have come up with has logically been explained as this one can be also. As Two Deep said, he was facing Brown. Only a fool would think that he would be facing sideways. He would have no way to defend himself with one arm. I could put everyone of these Brown defenders in the car, have someone come up and start attacking them and every single one of them would turn towards the attacker (if they didn't drive away).

That is where they should be focusing their case. Why didn't he drive away and regroup. Jesus, I have to do their thinking for them.

 

[GoBirds]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

I keep seeing these pictures and I guess I am missing the injuries

The injuries don't appear to be all that severe in the grand scheme of things. But, I guess my question is why do they need to appear to be severe. Clearly, Brown struck Wilson in the face at least once in the vehicle where an officer is in an incredibly compromised position.

Because Wilson said they were severe, to the point where he worried that the next one might be fatal and that he felt "like a 5 year old holding on to Hulk Hogan." If he's lying about that, the credibility of his account of the rest of the incident becomes a lot more problematic too. He also reportedly told a friend that he had suffered an "orbital fracture" and the Ferguson chief of police reported that he had a "swollen face." Both of those also appear to be lies, although I guess swelling is subjective.

Good call, they should make a law it's OK to attack cops as long as there is no visible blood or cuts when they take photos.

 

[badmojo1006]

White People rioting over stupid stuff

 

[BustedKnuckles]

in an interview last night Wilson stated that he called for back up AFTER the shooting in the cruiser

And there is some point to this statement?

yup

 

[TobiasFunke]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

I keep seeing these pictures and I guess I am missing the injuries

The injuries don't appear to be all that severe in the grand scheme of things. But, I guess my question is why do they need to appear to be severe. Clearly, Brown struck Wilson in the face at least once in the vehicle where an officer is in an incredibly compromised position.

Because Wilson said they were severe, to the point where he worried that the next one might be fatal and that he felt "like a 5 year old holding on to Hulk Hogan." If he's lying about that, the credibility of his account of the rest of the incident becomes a lot more problematic too. He also reportedly told a friend that he had suffered an "orbital fracture" and the Ferguson chief of police reported that he had a "swollen face." Both of those also appear to be lies, although I guess swelling is subjective.

Good call, they should make a law it's OK to attack cops as long as there is no visible blood or cuts when they take photos.

:whoosh:

Although I guess that's not surprising, considering you're the guy who eagerly swallows up racist garbage that people post on Twitter and brings it over here to regurgitate.

 

[General Tso]

Great story here. Shows the other side of things. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/26/natalie-dubose-ferguson-bakery-owner-receives-near/

 

[avoiding injuries]

So far this thread has been a complete KO of the Brown supporters by the Wilson supporters since the GJ results.

i dont think anyone is actually supporting brown as much as asking how can you justify shooting an unarmed person 6 times from a distance and it doesnt go to trial

The prosecutor explained it pretty well. If people can't figure it out after hearing what he said, they're never going to accept how it happened.We are now focusing on how someone gets hit in the right cheek with a right fist. Seriously, that's the level of inconsistency people are going after now.

So far everything they have come up with has logically been explained as this one can be also. As Two Deep said, he was facing Brown. Only a fool would think that he would be facing sideways. He would have no way to defend himself with one arm.

It really doesn't justify a response when people can't imagine Wilson leaning away from the door and facing the side window where Brown was while they were both struggling for the gun. Guess what, he probably wasn't facing forward with his hands at 10 and 2.

 

[Two Deep]

at the end of the day a police officer is always going to get the benefit of the doubt and rightfully so. they do a life or death job for not much pay. how can any of us sit back here and second guess/question when or how they should defend themselves in any given situation. we are just a bunch of hacks on a message board.

 

[lod01]

White People rioting over stupid stuff

Quite late to the ballgame I see. Seen that one at least twice.

 

[lod01]

in an interview last night Wilson stated that he called for back up AFTER the shooting in the cruiser

And there is some point to this statement?

yup

I see. 'nothing'.

 

[parasaurolophus]

If a cop yells freeze and you stop running away and walk toward him with your hands up and he repeatedly tells you to stop and you keep walking toward him do you expect to be able to get close enough to shake his hand?

 

[GoBirds]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

I keep seeing these pictures and I guess I am missing the injuries

The injuries don't appear to be all that severe in the grand scheme of things. But, I guess my question is why do they need to appear to be severe. Clearly, Brown struck Wilson in the face at least once in the vehicle where an officer is in an incredibly compromised position.

Because Wilson said they were severe, to the point where he worried that the next one might be fatal and that he felt "like a 5 year old holding on to Hulk Hogan." If he's lying about that, the credibility of his account of the rest of the incident becomes a lot more problematic too. He also reportedly told a friend that he had suffered an "orbital fracture" and the Ferguson chief of police reported that he had a "swollen face." Both of those also appear to be lies, although I guess swelling is subjective.

Good call, they should make a law it's OK to attack cops as long as there is no visible blood or cuts when they take photos.

:whoosh:

Although I guess that's not surprising, considering you're the guy who eagerly swallows up racist garbage that people post on Twitter and brings it over here to regurgitate.

You are clueless, reading your imaginary story is pretty funny please continue.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Great story here. Shows the other side of things. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/26/natalie-dubose-ferguson-bakery-owner-receives-near/

I posted the link to her GoFundme site a couple pages ago. Hopefully more local businesses seize on this idea and do something similar.

 

[SIDA!]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

I keep seeing these pictures and I guess I am missing the injuries

The injuries don't appear to be all that severe in the grand scheme of things. But, I guess my question is why do they need to appear to be severe. Clearly, Brown struck Wilson in the face at least once in the vehicle where an officer is in an incredibly compromised position.

Because Wilson said they were severe, to the point where he worried that the next one might be fatal and that he felt "like a 5 year old holding on to Hulk Hogan." If he's lying about that, the credibility of his account of the rest of the incident becomes a lot more problematic too. He also reportedly told a friend that he had suffered an "orbital fracture" and the Ferguson chief of police reported that he had a "swollen face." Both of those also appear to be lies, although I guess swelling is subjective.

I was asking more in the general context. One doesn't need to severely beat an officer in the face for that officer to feel threatened or that their life is in danger. Depending on where you are hit in the face, some people don't really get marked up even on very tough blows.

With that said, I find the whole "5 year old/Hulk Hogan" and next punch to be fatal statements to be coached and somewhat laughable on the part of Wilson.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Link

Lisa Bloom tweets about the questions faced by Darren Wilson for the grand jury.

She's added this as well.

Another cross-exam Q NOT asked of Wilson: how'd Mike Brown punch you w his right hand on right side of your face as you sat in drivers seat?

Perhaps he was one of those necks that turn, exposing that side of his face.

 

[avoiding injuries]

at the end of the day a police officer is always going to get the benefit of the doubt and rightfully so. they do a life or death job for not much pay. how can any of us sit back here and second guess/question when or how they should defend themselves in any given situation. we are just a bunch of hacks on a message board.

Some people must think Brown was the one who just got done assisting an infant who was having trouble breathing and Wilson robbed the convenience store.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

I keep seeing these pictures and I guess I am missing the injuries

The injuries don't appear to be all that severe in the grand scheme of things. But, I guess my question is why do they need to appear to be severe. Clearly, Brown struck Wilson in the face at least once in the vehicle where an officer is in an incredibly compromised position.

Because Wilson said they were severe, to the point where he worried that the next one might be fatal and that he felt "like a 5 year old holding on to Hulk Hogan." If he's lying about that, the credibility of his account of the rest of the incident becomes a lot more problematic too. He also reportedly told a friend that he had suffered an "orbital fracture" and the Ferguson chief of police reported that he had a "swollen face." Both of those also appear to be lies, although I guess swelling is subjective.

I was asking more in the general context. One doesn't need to severely beat an officer in the face for that officer to feel threatened or that their life is in danger. Depending on where you are hit in the face, some people don't really get marked up even on very tough blows.

With that said, I find the whole "5 year old/Hulk Hogan" and next punch to be fatal statements to be coached and somewhat laughable on the part of Wilson.

I don't think there is a more general context. If the question is "why do they need to be severe," the answer is because Wilson said they were severe, and because the chief of police suggested the same. Obviously the severity of the injuries is not directly relevant to whether the shooting was justified. It goes to the trustworthiness of Wilson, and to a lesser extent the trustworthiness of the Ferguson PD.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

Apparently he was hit so violently that it permanently slumped his shoulder, sunk his chest, receded his chin, increased the size of his ears, and put a permanent dumb #### look on his face. His skin, however, seems to have borne up well under the vicious assault. I'm Irish. I'm a bleeder. If you hit me it will show. This does strike me as incongruous to the story. That said, I have seem heavy weight boxers who after even three or four rounds are not yet showing facial damage.

The pictures give me pause but I do not find them dispositive of anything.

 

[GoBirds]

Excellent photo of Wilson's injuries.

I keep seeing these pictures and I guess I am missing the injuries

The injuries don't appear to be all that severe in the grand scheme of things. But, I guess my question is why do they need to appear to be severe. Clearly, Brown struck Wilson in the face at least once in the vehicle where an officer is in an incredibly compromised position.

Because Wilson said they were severe, to the point where he worried that the next one might be fatal and that he felt "like a 5 year old holding on to Hulk Hogan." If he's lying about that, the credibility of his account of the rest of the incident becomes a lot more problematic too. He also reportedly told a friend that he had suffered an "orbital fracture" and the Ferguson chief of police reported that he had a "swollen face." Both of those also appear to be lies, although I guess swelling is subjective.

I was asking more in the general context. One doesn't need to severely beat an officer in the face for that officer to feel threatened or that their life is in danger. Depending on where you are hit in the face, some people don't really get marked up even on very tough blows. With that said, I find the whole "5 year old/Hulk Hogan" and next punch to be fatal statements to be coached and somewhat laughable on the part of Wilson.

I don't think there is a more general context. If the question is "why do they need to be severe," the answer is because Wilson said they were severe, and because the chief of police suggested the same. Obviously the severity of the injuries is not directly relevant to whether the shooting was justified. It goes to the trustworthiness of Wilson, and to a lesser extent the trustworthiness of the Ferguson PD.

So tell us how you are going to analyze the trustworthiness of Wilson and the Ferguson PD to expose the injustices to the nice young man that attacked him after robbing a store. Sorry the picture taken after the incident didn't show the severity you were hoping for. Ever think sometimes bruising and swelling gets worse after the injury?

 

[rockaction]

My view is that the looters, people like SIDA who want to go killing sprees in their stores, and people who drive over pedestrians because they're late for work are all basically the same kind of person. Henry Ford was making a "social compact" argument yesterday to explain where the looters were coming from. I'm wondering if he would apply the same argument to the ######s who think it's okay to plow through a crowd of protestors who are blocking traffic.

Nope, though I guess that qualifier makes it a little different. If you're sitting in your car, and violent chaos, whooping, hollering, and yelling is going on around you by people who are breaking the law, get back to me about what you would do. That's a really neat image to think that they're just holding hands and blocking traffic, but when they're actively on or around your car, it's totally different. Ask Reginald Denny. Forget that.

eta* The Minneapolis driver, as obtained through another link in another thread has been listed as the "victim" and was "fleeing the mob" after extensive damage to his car, according to a police report. Not too hard to understand this point.

eta2* This is public property. People have no excuse to impede people's right to travel, especially in such a threatening manner as to jump on, in, or around cars so as to cause fear for one's life. Most states -- at least some states, sorry -- have lethal self-defense laws w/r/t to matters such as these.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

So far this thread has been a complete KO of the Brown supporters by the Wilson supporters since the GJ results.

i dont think anyone is actually supporting brown as much as asking how can you justify shooting an unarmed person 6 times from a distance and it doesnt go to trial

Perhaps if you instead ask the question: Would it be at all unusual for a Cop to shoot a fleeing felon who has assaulted the officer and attempted to disarm him mere seconds before, and who was shot after failing to surrender or to obey lawful orders and was then advancing again on the Officer to re-engage the officer in combat. in combat? Perhaps you would ask what a hypothetical reasonable officer would do under that scenario you will then have an answer. Perhaps not.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So tell us how you are going to analyze the trustworthiness of Wilson and the Ferguson PD to expose the injustices to the nice young man that attacked him after robbing a store. Sorry the picture taken after the incident didn't show the severity you were hoping for. Ever think sometimes bruising and swelling gets worse after the injury?

This post makes no sense to me. It's not at all responsive to what I said and suggests you really don't grasp what I'm saying at all. Same was true of your last reply to me. The whole thing where you regurgitated some racist nonsense from Facebook and then didn't apologize for i when it was shown to be false doesn't help your cause in my eyes either.

So what say we go our separate ways? I think there are probably plenty of other people who understand what I'm saying and can engage me on it without misrepresenting my position. And I'm sure you can find plenty of people willing to do whatever it is that you're doing here with you. Best of luck, and happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Jim11]

Mike Brown's pastor believes white supremacists burned down his church not the protesters that burned down everything else-

The Missouri church attended by Michael Browns father and his family was one of a dozen or so buildings burned to the ground during Monday nights protests in the wake of a grand jurys decision not to indict Officer Darren Wilson.

While the majority of the buildings destroyed on Monday were in downtown Ferguson, the Flood Christian Church is located some three miles away from the protests in a remote section of Country Club Hills.

Pastor Carlton Lee, who has been a vocal advocate for the Browns since their son was shot in August, has said he believes that white supremacists rather than protesters were to blame for the destruction.

Rev. Lee told NBC News that he believes his church was targeted because he has repeatedly called for the arrest of Officer Wilson.

'I'm very vocal in regards to the Michael Brown case,' said Lee, who has participated in rallies and press conferences with Michael Brown Sr. and claims to have received 71 death threats.

'The police called me and told me the church was on fire,' Lee said. 'I was in complete disbelief. I didn't think anyone would set a church on fire.

He suspects his church was targeted by white supremacists who wanted to punish him for his support of the Brown family.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2849736/Church-attended-Michael-Brown-s-family-destroyed-Monday-night-s-protests.html

Denial and madness continues. It's is unreal.

Yes, I'm sure some white supremacists got together & figured burning a church in a place where a large number of blacks, as well as others, were protesting/looting/setting fires would be a good idea.

 

[GoBirds]

So tell us how you are going to analyze the trustworthiness of Wilson and the Ferguson PD to expose the injustices to the nice young man that attacked him after robbing a store. Sorry the picture taken after the incident didn't show the severity you were hoping for. Ever think sometimes bruising and swelling gets worse after the injury?

This post makes no sense to me. It's not at all responsive to what I said and suggests you really don't grasp what I'm saying at all. Same was true of your last reply to me. The whole thing where you regurgitated some racist nonsense from Facebook and then didn't apologize for it doesn't help your cause in my eyes either.

So what say we go our separate ways? I think there are probably plenty of other people who understand what I'm saying and can engage me on it without misrepresenting my position. And I'm sure you can find plenty of people willing to do whatever it is that you're doing here with you. Best of luck, and happy Thanksgiving.

I think everyone grasps what your saying, it's just really weak and short sighted. Sorry you are crying about something I saw on Facebook.

 

[Henry Ford]

Link

Lisa Bloom tweets about the questions faced by Darren Wilson for the grand jury.

She's added this as well.

Another cross-exam Q NOT asked of Wilson: how'd Mike Brown punch you w his right hand on right side of your face as you sat in drivers seat?

Well, when he started struggling with me, I turned to face him to defend myself, and he punched me and his right hand hit me on the right side of my face....any other questions?

You should probably run through the physics of that for a moment.

I have and it stays within Newton's three Laws. Anything else?

Yes, why was he in fear that the third punch would kill him, given the amount of force applied by a right hand blow to the right side of the face in the positions their bodies were in as described in the testimony, and given that the injuries to his face are inconsistent with deadly force from a punch? And given that it was extremely unlikely that he was concussed or severely injured, why did he blindly fire without looking in the direction of Michael Brown next? Doesn't he consider that to be inconsistent with his training?

 

[jon_mx]

So far this thread has been a complete KO of the Brown supporters by the Wilson supporters since the GJ results.

i dont think anyone is actually supporting brown as much as asking how can you justify shooting an unarmed person 6 times from a distance and it doesnt go to trial

The prosecutor explained it pretty well. If people can't figure it out after hearing what he said, they're never going to accept how it happened. We are now focusing on how someone gets hit in the right cheek with a right fist. Seriously, that's the level of inconsistency people are going after now.

If Wilson turned his head back to look up at him, it would be pretty easy.

 

[Henry Ford]

Link

Lisa Bloom tweets about the questions faced by Darren Wilson for the grand jury.

Lisa Bloom @LisaBloom

How Wilson shd have been cross-ex'd: how did Brown solidly, "full force" punch you 2x in face, & yet you have no injuries to reflect that?

Not sure how hard Brown could have hit Wilson considering he was either punching through the open window or, leaning into the car throwing punches. He had the elevation, but the leverage would have been weak.

Particularly right handed into the right side of the face.

 

[lod01]

Looks like the "Mike Brown is a cop attacking thief but we love him" mob is trying to rally together a boycott of Black Friday. By the time Friday hits these people will have moved on. They have the attention span of a 2 year old. On top of that, they live for that garbage,

 

[Henry Ford]

So far this thread has been a complete KO of the Brown supporters by the Wilson supporters since the GJ results.

i dont think anyone is actually supporting brown as much as asking how can you justify shooting an unarmed person 6 times from a distance and it doesnt go to trial

Perhaps if you instead ask the question: Would it be at all unusual for a Cop to shoot a fleeing felon who has assaulted the officer and attempted to disarm him mere seconds before, and who was shot after failing to surrender or to obey lawful orders and was then advancing again on the Officer to re-engage the officer I combat. in combat? Perhaps you would ask what a hypothetical reasonable officer would do under that scenario you will then have an answer. Perhaps not.

And again, I think the problems that persist likely arose after the shooting - in the aftermath that became disturbingly like a cover up. In the failure to put together what looked like a full and complete investigation or report into what happened in a timely manner. And into what appear to be added details intended to make it look like a good shoot.

 

[whiskey7]

Brown’s Mother Responds to ‘Burn This B*tch Down’: Husband ‘Spoke Out of Anger’In a CNN interview scheduled to air tonight, Michael Brown‘s mother explained her husband’s cry to “burn this ##### down,” yelled after a grand jury refused to indict Officer Darren Wilson for the death of Brown, was said out of anger — but a justifiable anger.

When asked if Louis Head’s comments caused the turmoil and eventual rioting, Lesley McSpadden said it was impossible: the riots “happened since August 9th,” the day that Brown was shot and killed, she said. “These emotions with were taken over him, just like mine, and he just spoke out of anger. It is one thing to speak, and a different thing to act. He did not act, he just spoke out of anger.

“I’m a grieving mother, and that is my husband,” she continued. (Head is Brown’s stepfather.) “And he has been around Michael for four years, so he has grown to love him — not as much as I do, but he is going to love him just like he does his own children. So when you are that hurt, and the system has did you this wronged, you may say some things as well.”

Interesting. I wonder what she would say if one of the owners of one of the destroyed businesses yelled/called her names and/or implied her son caused all the mess and deserved what he got? I am sure she'd be very understanding. I mean, the owner would be justifiably angry, right, after losing his business? And saying things when you're angry is completely understandable, right? Come on

I am sorry for her loss, but she needs to wake the f up and shut the f up. Instead of lashing out at the system that she claims did her wrong, she needs to look at herself and ask where she might have gone wrong as a parent. How many of these individuals falling all over themselves to show they loved Mike Brown were any kind of real friend or role model to him? Has anyone asked neck tattoo guy (Dorian?) if he truly considered Brown a good friend why he didn't try to help him make better choices on that fateful day? Maybe his buddy would still be around today if he had.

 

[Sand]

Great story here. Shows the other side of things. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/26/natalie-dubose-ferguson-bakery-owner-receives-near/

I posted the link to her GoFundme site a couple pages ago. Hopefully more local businesses seize on this idea and do something similar.

Is there one up for the Indian guy who owns the liquor store? He might be the biggest victim in this whole fiasco.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So far this thread has been a complete KO of the Brown supporters by the Wilson supporters since the GJ results.

i dont think anyone is actually supporting brown as much as asking how can you justify shooting an unarmed person 6 times from a distance and it doesnt go to trial

Perhaps if you instead ask the question: Would it be at all unusual for a Cop to shoot a fleeing felon who has assaulted the officer and attempted to disarm him mere seconds before, and who was shot after failing to surrender or to obey lawful orders and was then advancing again on the Officer to re-engage the officer I combat. in combat? Perhaps you would ask what a hypothetical reasonable officer would do under that scenario you will then have an answer. Perhaps not.

And again, I think the problems that persist likely arose after the shooting - in the aftermath that became disturbingly like a cover up. In the failure to put together what looked like a full and complete investigation or report into what happened in a timely manner. And into what appear to be added details intended to make it look like a good shoot.

THIS IS LONG BUT VERY REVEALING......FERGUSON, Mo. — In the end, it seems, it all came down to Officer Darren Wilson himself.

In four hours of vivid testimony before the St. Louis County grand jury in September describing his shooting of Michael Brown, the officer said Mr. Brown, 18, had looked “like a demon” when he first approached him.

The officer described himself as utterly terrified when, he said, Mr. Brown reached into his police vehicle and fought him for his gun. Mr. Brown was so physically overpowering that the officer, who is 6-foot-4, similar to Mr. Brown, said he “felt like a 5-year-old holding on to Hulk Hogan.”

The officer’s testimony, along with thousands of pages of grand jury documents, including contradictory witness accounts, appeared to have helped convince some of the jurors that the officer had committed no crime when he killed Mr. Brown.

The St. Louis County prosecutor, Robert P. McCulloch, said he had released the documents to show people how thorough the grand jury inquiry had been and to convince the public that justice had been done.

But the failure to bring any charges against a white officer who shot an unarmed black teenager in murky circumstances has set off a new storm of protests and questions about the objectivity of the grand jury process.

In an unusual step, Mr. McCulloch had said he would present all known witnesses and evidence and instead of recommending an indictment, as is usually the case, let the jurors decide for themselves what if any charges to bring.

The officer’s testimony, delivered without the cross-examination of a trial in the earliest phase of the three-month inquiry, was the only direct account of the fatal encounter. It appeared to form the spine of a narrative that unfolded before the jurors over three months, buttressed, the prosecutors said, by the most credible witnesses, forensic evidence and three autopsies.

But the gentle questioning of Officer Wilson revealed in the transcripts, and the sharp challenges prosecutors made to witnesses whose accounts seemed to contradict his narrative, have led some to question whether the process was as objective as Mr. McCulloch claims.

Lawyers for Mr. Brown’s family, who maintained all along that Officer Wilson should be charged with a crime so he could be tried in public, said that Monday’s decision and the voluminous transcripts only reinforced their suspicions.

“This grand jury decision we feel is a direct reflection of the sentiments of those who presented the evidence,” Anthony Gray, a lawyer for the relatives, said at a news conference Tuesday morning. “If you present evidence to indict, you get an indictment. If you present evidence not to indict, you don’t get an indictment.”

Photo

Some of the images presented as evidence to the St. Louis County grand jury, including Officer Darren Wilson's gun, broken glass from his official vehicle and Michael Brown's hat.CreditPhotographs via St. Louis County Prosecutor's Office

Officer Wilson, in his testimony, described the encounter in terms that dovetailed with a state law authorizing an officer’s use of deadly force: He sought to show that he had reason to believe that Mr. Brown posed a serious danger to himself or to others. He described Mr. Brown as crazed and himself as fearing for his life, first in the police vehicle and moments later in the street after, he said, he ordered the fleeing Mr. Brown to halt. Officer Wilson then shot him repeatedly, according to his account, after Mr. Brown charged at him.

Continue reading the main story
In some cases the questions seemed designed to help Officer Wilson meet the conditions for self-defense, with a prosecutor telling him at one point: “You felt like your life was in jeopardy” followed by the question, “And use of deadly force was justified at that point in your opinion?”

But when no one asked him why he had chased Mr. Brown, Officer Wilson brought it up himself, saying that after experiencing Mr. Brown’s aggression in the vehicle, he felt “he still posed a threat, not only to me, but to anybody else that confronted him.”

Unusual Process

Most grand jury proceedings are swift and simple: A few witnesses are called, the prosecutor makes the case for an indictment and the jurors vote.

But the grand jury in the Brown case met for an extraordinarily long session, hearing what the prosecutor said was “absolutely everything” that could be considered testimony or evidence in the case. While what happens in the grand jury room is almost always kept secret, Mr. McCulloch insisted on releasing the transcripts of the proceedings immediately after the session ended.

Continue reading the main story



Documents Released in the Ferguson Case

The jurors met in a St. Louis County courthouse on 25 separate days. They heard 70 hours of testimony from about 60 witnesses. And they confronted a jumble of forensics reports, police radio logs, medical documents and tapes of F.B.I. interviews with bystanders. Nine of the 12 jurors would have had to agree in order to bring a criminal indictment; the actual vote is secret.

After three months of hearing evidence, the grand jury began its deliberations about 3 p.m. on Friday. The jurors met again on Monday, and by midday they were finished.

Though the encounter between Officer Wilson and Mr. Brown lasted only a matter of minutes, witness testimony revealed an array of variations, some subtle and some flatly contradictory. Witness after witness took the stand to describe the brief encounter and usually agreed on the broadest strokes: how it began with the struggle at the window of Officer Wilson’s police S.U.V., leading to the first shots, and ended with Dorian Johnson, who had been walking with Mr. Brown, shouting, “They killed him,” and crowds descending on the scene.

Many witnesses said they first began to pay attention while the two were wrestling at the S.U.V. window, though they usually said they could not see enough to know what was going on. But even when the confrontation broke out into the open — when Officer Wilson chased the teenager, ordered him to halt and then fired two volleys of five shots — the accounts diverged.

“I see the officer running behind shooting,” one witness said.

“He did not take off running after Michael,” another said to the prosecutors.

Continue reading the main story



Graphic: Q. and A.: What Happened in Ferguson?

Some witnesses, whom Mr. McCulloch described as the most credible and consistent, hewed more closely to Officer Wilson’s account.

“I could say for sure he never put his hands up,” said a man who was working in the area and did not live there, and whose testimony strongly bolstered Officer Wilson’s case. “He ran to the officer full charge.”

Continue reading the main story
Others spoke just as confidently that events unfolded in a completely different way.

“Yes, I personally saw him on his knees with his hands in the air,” one witness said in a recorded interview with federal officials that was played for the grand jury before he testified. The prosecutor questioning that witness did not hide her skepticism, highlighting the contradictions in his various accounts.

“Basically just about everything that you said on Aug. 13, and much of what you said today, isn’t consistent with the physical evidence that we have in this case, O.K.?” she said to him.

Witnesses Challenged

Photo

Michael Brown

Prosecutors did not seem to shy from pointing out the discrepancies between multiple interviews of a single witness, or at some points exploring the criminal history of some witnesses, including Mr. Johnson, Mr. Brown’s friend.

Though the prosecutors did not press Officer Wilson and other law enforcement officials about some contradictions in their testimony, they did challenge other witnesses about why their accounts had varied.

Several were asked if they felt any pressure to conform to a certain story line, or if they felt fearful about their recollections differing from the popular narrative in the streets. Some did acknowledge such fears, while others were shown to have delivered wholly unreliable accounts.

An older man in a nearby housing complex dismissed the notion that Mr. Brown had raised his hands to the sky, as some claimed, in a gesture that became a symbol for the protest movement in Ferguson. But the man was adamant that Mr. Brown had never charged at Officer Wilson, only staggered toward him, wounded, his arms outstretched in a gesture of surrender.

“He had his hands up, palm facing the officer like, ‘O.K., you got me,’ ” the man recalled, adding at a later point that he had once been shot himself so he knew what it felt like. The prosecutor pointed out that the distance Mr. Brown covered after turning was farther than the witness remembered, and a juror questioned the witness as to whether he could really judge how menacing Mr. Brown had appeared to Officer Wilson.

Still this man’s testimony was like that of several others, in that it neither matched up perfectly with Officer Wilson’s account nor with the accounts of those most sympathetic to Mr. Brown. Many witnesses expressed uncertainty about the moment when Mr. Brown stopped and turned and what led Officer Wilson to start shooting. “That is something I wrestle with to this day,” said a witness whose account lined up particularly with Officer Wilson’s, though even it diverged on a couple of crucial points, like whether the officer shouted commands for Mr. Brown to stop fleeing.

Continue reading the main story



Timeline: Tracking the Events in the Wake of Michael Brown’s Shooting

Wealth of Evidence

As the weeks went by, the grand jury studied the brief encounter between Officer Wilson and Mr. Brown from seemingly every possible angle, hearing forensic testimony one day, going as a group to examine a police vehicle similar to Officer Wilson’s on another. On Nov. 11, the prosecutors questioned a former superior of Officer Wilson’s from another police force, asking about his relationship with the African-American community as well as standard police practices governing the use of deadly force. (The witness had nothing but positive things to say about Officer Wilson.)

Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story
Continue reading the main story
The prosecutor said that forensic evidence, along with public and private autopsy reports, supported the assertion that Officer Wilson and Mr. Brown had struggled inside the police vehicle.

A crime scene investigator described swabbing Officer Wilson’s gun; the subsequent DNA report found Mr. Brown’s genetic material on Officer Wilson’s Sig Sauer pistol. Similarly, DNA from Mr. Brown was also found on the officer’s uniform pants and shirt.

In his testimony, Officer Wilson told jurors that Mr. Brown had grabbed his gun while the two scuffled at the vehicle. Feeling threatened, Officer Wilson said, he fired the gun twice, once striking Mr. Brown in the hand and leaving blood splattered inside the vehicle. Asked why he did not use a Taser stun gun, the officer said he found them unwieldy and did not have one.

The medical examiner who performed the initial autopsy showed the grand jury close to 100 gruesome photos of the gunshot wounds from every angle, giving exhaustive descriptions and lessons in the physics of such wounds.

Continue reading the main storyVideo


He described the soot, or unburned gunpowder, on a graze wound on Mr. Brown’s hand, proof that it was shot at a range of six to nine inches.

Over the months, the jurors seemed to focus intently on the final movement that Mr. Brown may have made toward Officer Wilson, after a brief chase. The prosecutor asked witness after witness if it seemed as if Mr. Brown were reaching for a weapon, though few said they saw anything like that. Mr. Brown was found to be unarmed.

Jurors asked whether Mr. Brown, when he was said to be moving toward Officer Wilson, seemed to have “any kind of expression, a blank look, aggressive look or anything.” They also had seemingly come to memorize the distances and challenged witnesses on their memories of the geography of the confrontation.

Forensic evidence was also presented that supported Officer Wilson’s statement that Mr. Brown was moving toward him after the first volley of bullets.

The distance from the front wheel of the officer’s S.U.V. to Mr. Brown’s body was 153 feet, 9 inches, an investigator said. Farther away from the car, the investigator showed with photographs, were two blood-spatter patterns — evidence that Mr. Brown was moving toward the officer, and the car, when he was killed in the second flurry of shots.

The medical examiner described the succession of bullet wounds to the chest and face that, in his view, would not have immediately incapacitated Mr. Brown. The prosecutors repeatedly questioned the doctor about this, driving home that Mr. Brown could have still been mobile (and dangerous) after the initial gunshot wounds.

They seemed intent on emphasizing this point, which supports Officer Wilson’s description of Mr. Brown lunging toward him despite serious wounds.

A final shot through the top of Mr. Brown’s head, the medical experts all agreed, felled him almost instantly.

After the shooting, Officer Wilson was taken to a hospital, where a doctor found that he had a “facial contusion,” the medical term for a bruise, apparently from the struggle in the vehicle. He was given a prescription for an anti-inflammatory drug.

On Friday afternoon, the jurors indicated that they were ready to begin deliberating. The two assistant St. Louis County prosecutors who had presented the case gave them information on the charges that they could possibly bring against Officer Wilson: murder, voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.

“We were trying to give you a balanced presentation of the evidence,” Sheila Whirley, one of the prosecutors, told the jurors in summary. “And I think you are going to make the right decision.”

 

[mcintyre1]

So tell us how you are going to analyze the trustworthiness of Wilson and the Ferguson PD to expose the injustices to the nice young man that attacked him after robbing a store. Sorry the picture taken after the incident didn't show the severity you were hoping for. Ever think sometimes bruising and swelling gets worse after the injury?

This post makes no sense to me. It's not at all responsive to what I said and suggests you really don't grasp what I'm saying at all. Same was true of your last reply to me. The whole thing where you regurgitated some racist nonsense from Facebook and then didn't apologize for it doesn't help your cause in my eyes either.

So what say we go our separate ways? I think there are probably plenty of other people who understand what I'm saying and can engage me on it without misrepresenting my position. And I'm sure you can find plenty of people willing to do whatever it is that you're doing here with you. Best of luck, and happy Thanksgiving.

I think everyone grasps what your saying, it's just really weak and short sighted. Sorry you are crying about something I saw on Facebook.

I think he's exactly right. These inconsistencies in Wilson's narrative of the story are exactly why this should have gone to trial.

 

[timschochet]

Have you guys noticed that nothing gets people in this country more riled up than racial issues involving blacks and whites? Nothing. Not abortion, not illegal immigration , not the economy or the environment- whenever some incident like this happens people focus like a laser beam and everybody has an opinion and everybody is emotional and nearly everybody is pissed off- and this has been going on got our entire history . We are obsessed with this subject.

 

[Henry Ford]

Have you guys noticed that nothing gets people in this country more riled up than racial issues involving blacks and whites? Nothing. Not abortion, not illegal immigration , not the economy or the environment- whenever some incident like this happens people focus like a laser beam and everybody has an opinion and everybody is emotional and nearly everybody is pissed off- and this has been going on got our entire history . We are obsessed with this subject.

Holy ####, you're right! You should let someone important know about this.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Link

Lisa Bloom tweets about the questions faced by Darren Wilson for the grand jury.

She's added this as well.

Another cross-exam Q NOT asked of Wilson: how'd Mike Brown punch you w his right hand on right side of your face as you sat in drivers seat?

Well, when he started struggling with me, I turned to face him to defend myself, and he punched me and his right hand hit me on the right side of my face....any other questions?

You should probably run through the physics of that for a moment.

I have and it stays within Newton's three Laws. Anything else?

Yes, why was he in fear that the third punch would kill him, given the amount of force applied by a right hand blow to the right side of the face in the positions their bodies were in as described in the testimony, and given that the injuries to his face are inconsistent with deadly force from a punch? And given that it was extremely unlikely that he was concussed or severely injured, why did he blindly fire without looking in the direction of Michael Brown next? Doesn't he consider that to be inconsistent with his training?

Are we doing cross-examination by proxy? I have questions for our faux Darren Wilsons too.

 

[whiskey7]

Looks like the "Mike Brown is a cop attacking thief but we love him" mob is trying to rally together a boycott of Black Friday. By the time Friday hits these people will have moved on. They have the attention span of a 2 year old. On top of that, they live for that garbage,

Saw that as well. Some individual (I forget the name but wanna say from Atlanta and maybe organizer of demonstrations there?) was on CNN last night saying he's encouraging the African American community to boycott Black Friday. Said something about letting their $1 trillion in buying power do the talking or something along those lines iirc. Something tells me there will be plenty of black people at Walmart and I bet dollars to doughnuts #### gets out of hand at multiple locations.

In my search for the name of the individual (I referenced above), I found this tweet:

"1.1 TRILLION bills....imagine the devastation you can cause and the respect that will come if we all #BoycottBlackFriday #BoycottBlackFriday"

Interesting choice of words, no? And isn't he in danger of hosing-up the ol "we're poor because the unjust, biased system keeps us poor" excuse?

 

[Henry Ford]

Link

Lisa Bloom tweets about the questions faced by Darren Wilson for the grand jury.

She's added this as well.

Another cross-exam Q NOT asked of Wilson: how'd Mike Brown punch you w his right hand on right side of your face as you sat in drivers seat?

Well, when he started struggling with me, I turned to face him to defend myself, and he punched me and his right hand hit me on the right side of my face....any other questions?

You should probably run through the physics of that for a moment.

I have and it stays within Newton's three Laws. Anything else?

Yes, why was he in fear that the third punch would kill him, given the amount of force applied by a right hand blow to the right side of the face in the positions their bodies were in as described in the testimony, and given that the injuries to his face are inconsistent with deadly force from a punch? And given that it was extremely unlikely that he was concussed or severely injured, why did he blindly fire without looking in the direction of Michael Brown next? Doesn't he consider that to be inconsistent with his training?

Are we doing cross-examination by proxy? I have questions for our faux Darren Wilsons too.

I don't really care what the answers are in this discussion. I just want a prosecutor who puts a case in front of a grand jury to ask them.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Link

Lisa Bloom tweets about the questions faced by Darren Wilson for the grand jury.

She's added this as well.

Another cross-exam Q NOT asked of Wilson: how'd Mike Brown punch you w his right hand on right side of your face as you sat in drivers seat?

Well, when he started struggling with me, I turned to face him to defend myself, and he punched me and his right hand hit me on the right side of my face....any other questions?

You should probably run through the physics of that for a moment.

I have and it stays within Newton's three Laws. Anything else?

Yes, why was he in fear that the third punch would kill him, given the amount of force applied by a right hand blow to the right side of the face in the positions their bodies were in as described in the testimony, and given that the injuries to his face are inconsistent with deadly force from a punch? And given that it was extremely unlikely that he was concussed or severely injured, why did he blindly fire without looking in the direction of Michael Brown next? Doesn't he consider that to be inconsistent with his training?

Are we doing cross-examination by proxy? I have questions for our faux Darren Wilsons too.

I don't really care what the answers are in this discussion. I just want a prosecutor who puts a case in front of a grand jury to ask them.

You and me both. And a lot of other people too.

The heck with Darren Wilson's interview. I'd like to see McCulloch face the music.

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for the Wilson supporters: if the feds bring charges and ultimately secure a win at trial, will you accept the verdict?

 

[parasaurolophus]

This thread needs more encyclopedia brown types.

You see, bugs meany couldn't have been running and reached into his right pocket because he has a cast on his right hand! You ever try reaching into your right pocket with your left hand while running! It is impossible. Bugs Meany is guilty, Guilty!

 

[timschochet]

Olaf I have been thinking about what you wrote, quite deeply in fact. I think you're more of a pessimist than I am. There are ways to improve this situation. When I have time I'll post a longer reply.