Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)

[matttyl]

Not a single protest yet about two innocent cops being shot. I'm sure there will be a bunch soon though.

Something stopping you?

Unfortunately, in today's world, it would probably come off as racist if he did.

It's racist to stage a protest against crime?

I didn't say it was racist, did I? I said it would be perceived as racist if anyone were to protest against the violence directed toward the police of Ferguson - as quite a few people believe that they are themselves racist.

 

[TobiasFunke]

No, you didn't. You brought up a 7 month old article that you needed go find via google about "dozens" of people. That's not "the black community doing more" at all. I think you know that.

Where are the protests and marches of hundreds or thousands?

Huh? Did you not click on all the links I included?

Read this one again. It provides exactly what you are asking for. Lots of protests, with hundreds or more involved. It has video of them and everything.

And I have no idea what "needed to go find via google" has to do with anything. I knew they'd happened and been written up, I just googled it to find those reports. Do you have links committed to memory or something? Nor do I have any idea what the timing has to do with it, whether they're 7 months old or 5 years old or whatever. What exactly are you trying to say? That black people used to care about black on black crime but they abruptly stopped 7 months ago? That unless they're protesting it every day it doesn't count in your eyes?

Honestly you've lost me here. What point are you trying to make with this "black on black crime" argument?

So an article from "The Atlantic" that's 3 years old with a video of Chicago from 5 years ago and Newark from 6 years ago?

My point, rather than argument cause it's not really debatable, is when there is a white on black crime (Fergueson, Zimmerman, whatever) it makes national news - there are protests and marches. These are for individual situations with singular deaths. It makes nationals and international news and gets thousands of people gathered for a singular cause. You don't see that with black on black crimes, which are far more prevalent to the tune of hundreds (maybe a thousand) times more often to nearly the same degree - it at all on a national news scale. Why is that?

How come I can turn on my TV (and not just Fox News, which I don't watch by the way), or via a social media page and see nothing but these singular situations and their huge reactions - but never see anything of the other? Why do you have to go to google and pull up articles from years ago with videos of even further back to show it? Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all - what I'm saying is that when it does happen it's on a far smaller scale, and never receives any "real" attention (which I understand are two different issues, but both exist).

Because potentially racially charged crime makes for a better story? In all the stories that grab national news the black victim is also unarmed. Brown, Garner, Rice, Grant, Martin ... all of them. Once the victim is armed the notion that race played a role in the incident falls by the wayside, right or wrong. That's just what interests the public, and thus what the media reports. That's less than ideal I guess, but it's hardly surprising and I'm not sure what it has to do with anything. It certainly has nothing to do with your clearly incorrect claim that the black community doesn't care very much about black on black violence. And as to your second claim that those attitudes and marches and sentiments doesn't receive any real attention ... I'm with you, obviously. You shouldn't have to read the Atlantic Monthly to know that black people care a lot about the violence in their communities.

Maybe you just don't live in areas where homicide is prevalent, but in the NYC Metro area, there are always stories of drive-by shootings where an unarmed black person (even kids sitting in their homes) dies.

I don't know what you're getting at here. Those aren't stories that grab national news.

FWIW (I can't tell how this is connected to anything else) I live in an area- not just my city but my neighborhood- with an unfortunately large number of recent shootings.

 

[Bucky86]

Not a single protest yet about two innocent cops being shot. I'm sure there will be a bunch soon though.

Something stopping you?

Unfortunately, in today's world, it would probably come off as racist if he did.

It's racist to stage a protest against crime?

I didn't say it was racist, did I? I said it would be perceived as racist if anyone were to protest against the violence directed toward the police of Ferguson - as quite a few people believe that they are themselves racist.

Why would they protest against the protesters? I thought this was about violence against two innocent cops?

 

[matttyl]

Not a single protest yet about two innocent cops being shot. I'm sure there will be a bunch soon though.

Something stopping you?

Unfortunately, in today's world, it would probably come off as racist if he did.

Ah, preemptive whining about being accused of racism and patronizing comments about what black people/protestors should and shouldn't care about. Nice. Just throw in a few lines about how rappers can say the N word but you can't and you'll hit the "conservatives talking about racial issues" trifecta.

So the protesters of Ferguson should care about the possible use of excessive force used against Brown by the police - but not the situation of a local black man (allegedly) shooting two Ferguson officers - which is just an example of why the police there likely do have a preconceived notion of black men in that community?

 

[matttyl]

Not a single protest yet about two innocent cops being shot. I'm sure there will be a bunch soon though.

Something stopping you?

Unfortunately, in today's world, it would probably come off as racist if he did.

It's racist to stage a protest against crime?

I didn't say it was racist, did I? I said it would be perceived as racist if anyone were to protest against the violence directed toward the police of Ferguson - as quite a few people believe that they are themselves racist.

Why would they protest against the protesters? I thought this was about violence against two innocent cops?

You've lost me. Who's protesting against the protesters now?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not a single protest yet about two innocent cops being shot. I'm sure there will be a bunch soon though.

Something stopping you?

Unfortunately, in today's world, it would probably come off as racist if he did.

It's racist to stage a protest against crime?

I didn't say it was racist, did I? I said it would be perceived as racist if anyone were to protest against the violence directed toward the police of Ferguson - as quite a few people believe that they are themselves racist.

There's nothing to protest here. Only a truly horrible person would be in favor of shooting the police, and only a truly ignorant person would think that people shooting at police gets swept under the rug. Although the national media might not cover such shootings the way they cover some racially charged shootings (complain to the media if you want), a homicide with a cop as the victim gets much more attention and a more immediate and thorough investigation than civilian shootings.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not a single protest yet about two innocent cops being shot. I'm sure there will be a bunch soon though.

Something stopping you?

Unfortunately, in today's world, it would probably come off as racist if he did.

Ah, preemptive whining about being accused of racism and patronizing comments about what black people/protestors should and shouldn't care about. Nice. Just throw in a few lines about how rappers can say the N word but you can't and you'll hit the "conservatives talking about racial issues" trifecta.

So the protesters of Ferguson should care about the possible use of excessive force used against Brown by the police - but not the situation of a local black man (allegedly) shooting two Ferguson officers - which is just an example of why the police there likely do have a preconceived notion of black men in that community?

So you should sit in the comfort of your home in Virginia or behind the desk at the office of your upper middle class job and tell the people of Ferguson not just what they should care about, but also what they do care about? Who do you think you are?

If you're going to sit in judgment and express mock outrage at the priorities of people half a continent away, the least you could do is take 30 seconds to google it and find out if you're right about their attitudes and the lack of rallies or shows of support. Spolier alert- you were wrong.

 

[matttyl]

Not a single protest yet about two innocent cops being shot. I'm sure there will be a bunch soon though.

Something stopping you?

Unfortunately, in today's world, it would probably come off as racist if he did.

Ah, preemptive whining about being accused of racism and patronizing comments about what black people/protestors should and shouldn't care about. Nice. Just throw in a few lines about how rappers can say the N word but you can't and you'll hit the "conservatives talking about racial issues" trifecta.

So the protesters of Ferguson should care about the possible use of excessive force used against Brown by the police - but not the situation of a local black man (allegedly) shooting two Ferguson officers - which is just an example of why the police there likely do have a preconceived notion of black men in that community?

So you should sit in the comfort of your home in Virginia or behind the desk at the office of your upper middle class job and tell the people of Ferguson not just what they should care about, but also what they do care about? Who do you think you are?

If you're going to sit in judgment and express mock outrage at the priorities of people half a continent away, the least you could do is take 30 seconds to google it and find out if you're right about their attitudes and the lack of rallies or shows of support. Spolier alert- you were wrong.

First off, my comment about supporting these cops being viewed as racist was a bit of a joke. That said, the video in your link clearly shows a huge majority of those at the "pro police rally" being of the lighter end of the color spectrum - totally opposite from any shots of the former protesters. From the video you posted, this pro police rally was easily 80-90% white, from a community that is roughly 2/3rds black.

Also, as for any "pro police rally" being viewed as racist, your own video says that some protesters were shouting at those at the rally, and that some of the protesters "trampled the American flag." Do you really think that wasn't racially motivated?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not a single protest yet about two innocent cops being shot. I'm sure there will be a bunch soon though.

Something stopping you?

Unfortunately, in today's world, it would probably come off as racist if he did.

Ah, preemptive whining about being accused of racism and patronizing comments about what black people/protestors should and shouldn't care about. Nice. Just throw in a few lines about how rappers can say the N word but you can't and you'll hit the "conservatives talking about racial issues" trifecta.

So the protesters of Ferguson should care about the possible use of excessive force used against Brown by the police - but not the situation of a local black man (allegedly) shooting two Ferguson officers - which is just an example of why the police there likely do have a preconceived notion of black men in that community?

So you should sit in the comfort of your home in Virginia or behind the desk at the office of your upper middle class job and tell the people of Ferguson not just what they should care about, but also what they do care about? Who do you think you are?

If you're going to sit in judgment and express mock outrage at the priorities of people half a continent away, the least you could do is take 30 seconds to google it and find out if you're right about their attitudes and the lack of rallies or shows of support. Spolier alert- you were wrong.

First off, my comment about supporting these cops being viewed as racist was a bit of a joke. That said, the video in your link clearly shows a huge majority of those at the "pro police rally" being of the lighter end of the color spectrum - totally opposite from any shots of the former protesters. From the video you posted, this pro police rally was easily 80-90% white, from a community that is roughly 2/3rds black.

Also, as for any "pro police rally" being viewed as racist, your own video says that some protesters were shouting at those at the rally, and that some of the protesters "trampled the American flag." Do you really think that wasn't racially motivated?

Well I didn't post a video, I posted an article, which also mentions that a center of "many protest activities" there was also relief at the arrest and condemnation of the shooting. Here's Brown's family doing the same. The article also says they "echoed sentiments by local activists denouncing the actions of 'stand-alone agitators' who they say are trying to derail the nonviolent nationwide movement to address police brutality." And I've seen similar sentiments in many other articles.

But more importantly, none of this changes my point at all. You're still sitting halfway across the country, in what an educated guess tells me is relative comfort and security. And you are not just speaking for the concerns and priorities of black people in Ferguson, but also telling them that those concerns and priorities are misguided.

Do you see how patronizing that sounds? Please tell me that you do, and that wasn't your intent. Because if that's really what you're doing, that's some close-minded, arrogant, Bill O'Reilly-esque hot garbage.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

One thing you guys are right about is that it's about racism. You don't want to hear it though because you are so used to black people being the victim, which has always been the case. You refuse to even consider that it's possible that there are hateful black people who consider all non-black people evil.

For example, this guy. It was all a set up.

How ####### racist can you be? No, he's not in the majority but there are plenty of people that think like this. This racist piece of #### should lose his job.

A place that I love will now forever be known for something terrible all thanks to a lie. A city that was making a great come back, will now be an awful place to live. It is now a place to be avoided instead of invested in. It's so ####### sad.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Not a single protest yet about two innocent cops being shot. I'm sure there will be a bunch soon though.

Something stopping you?

Unfortunately, in today's world, it would probably come off as racist if he did.

Ah, preemptive whining about being accused of racism and patronizing comments about what black people/protestors should and shouldn't care about. Nice. Just throw in a few lines about how rappers can say the N word but you can't and you'll hit the "conservatives talking about racial issues" trifecta.

So the protesters of Ferguson should care about the possible use of excessive force used against Brown by the police - but not the situation of a local black man (allegedly) shooting two Ferguson officers - which is just an example of why the police there likely do have a preconceived notion of black men in that community?

So you should sit in the comfort of your home in Virginia or behind the desk at the office of your upper middle class job and tell the people of Ferguson not just what they should care about, but also what they do care about? Who do you think you are?

If you're going to sit in judgment and express mock outrage at the priorities of people half a continent away, the least you could do is take 30 seconds to google it and find out if you're right about their attitudes and the lack of rallies or shows of support. Spolier alert- you were wrong.

First off, my comment about supporting these cops being viewed as racist was a bit of a joke. That said, the video in your link clearly shows a huge majority of those at the "pro police rally" being of the lighter end of the color spectrum - totally opposite from any shots of the former protesters. From the video you posted, this pro police rally was easily 80-90% white, from a community that is roughly 2/3rds black.

Also, as for any "pro police rally" being viewed as racist, your own video says that some protesters were shouting at those at the rally, and that some of the protesters "trampled the American flag." Do you really think that wasn't racially motivated?

Well I didn't post a video, I posted an article, which also mentions that a center of "many protest activities" there was also relief at the arrest and condemnation of the shooting. Here's Brown's family doing the same. The article also says they "echoed sentiments by local activists denouncing the actions of 'stand-alone agitators' who they say are trying to derail the nonviolent nationwide movement to address police brutality." And I've seen similar sentiments in many other articles.

But more importantly, none of this changes my point at all. You're still sitting halfway across the country, in what an educated guess tells me is relative comfort and security. And you are not just speaking for the concerns and priorities of black people in Ferguson, but also telling them that those concerns and priorities are misguided.

Do you see how patronizing that sounds? Please tell me that you do, and that wasn't your intent. Because if that's really what you're doing, that's some close-minded, arrogant, Bill O'Reilly-esque hot garbage.

"non-violent"

 

[matttyl]

Tobias, all I said was that if people did in fact have a protest or rally or whatever for the two shot officers of Ferguson, that it would likely be viewed by some as racist. In that a "pro police rally" in fact happened, which was about 80-90% white - and a shouting match erupted from the protesters already there, and an American flag was trampled - I don't think you can say that my thought was wrong.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

BTW, that guy is the City Manager for Uplands Park which is about 4 miles from Ferguson. I've never heard of Uplands Park until now. Again, one of the big problems with St. Louis, all of these stupid little cities.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

One thing you guys are right about is that it's about racism. You don't want to hear it though because you are so used to black people being the victim, which has always been the case. You refuse to even consider that it's possible that there are hateful black people who consider all non-black people evil.

For example, this guy. It was all a set up.

How ####### racist can you be? No, he's not in the majority but there are plenty of people that think like this. This racist piece of #### should lose his job.

A place that I love will now forever be known for something terrible all thanks to a lie. A city that was making a great come back, will now be an awful place to live. It is now a place to be avoided instead of invested in. It's so ####### sad.

One thing you guys are right about is that it's about racism. You don't want to hear it though because you are so used to black people being the victim, which has always been the case. You refuse to even consider that it's possible that there are hateful black people who consider all non-black people evil.

For example, this guy. It was all a set up.

How ####### racist can you be? No, he's not in the majority but there are plenty of people that think like this. This racist piece of #### should lose his job.

A place that I love will now forever be known for something terrible all thanks to a lie. A city that was making a great come back, will now be an awful place to live. It is now a place to be avoided instead of invested in. It's so ####### sad.

If he were white he already would have.

 

[TobiasFunke]

One thing you guys are right about is that it's about racism. You don't want to hear it though because you are so used to black people being the victim, which has always been the case. You refuse to even consider that it's possible that there are hateful black people who consider all non-black people evil.

For example, this guy. It was all a set up.

How ####### racist can you be? No, he's not in the majority but there are plenty of people that think like this. This racist piece of #### should lose his job.

A place that I love will now forever be known for something terrible all thanks to a lie. A city that was making a great come back, will now be an awful place to live. It is now a place to be avoided instead of invested in. It's so ####### sad.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I don't know why you think differently, or think you're qualified to tell me what I can and can't consider. But not only can I consider the possibility in the bolded, but I assume it's the truth. There's racists of all colors everywhere.

I agree with the rest of your post- it's a shame and it's sad. Some people in positions of power in the St Louis were complicit in the mess this has become- even a conservative blogger couldn't avoid that conclusion after reading the DOJ report. But that doesn't make it less tragic for the residents of the area, who in my experiences are almost all top notch people and who likely had nothing to do with any of this, directly or indirectly. It sucks for them, no question.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias, all I said was that if people did in fact have a protest or rally or whatever for the two shot officers of Ferguson, that it would likely be viewed by some as racist. In that a "pro police rally" in fact happened, which was about 80-90% white - and a shouting match erupted from the protesters already there, and an American flag was trampled - I don't think you can say that my thought was wrong.

Umm .... you seemed to say right here that the protestors care about the Brown incident but not the police shooting. You even said that these priorities were "an example of why the police there likely do have a preconceived notion of black men in that community."

 

[matttyl]

As for the "pro police rally" -

"But the news also prompted a show of support for Ferguson's beleaguered police force. Dozens of people gathered in front of police headquarters, many of them holding signs reading "We Support the Badge" and "Thank You Police."

There was a brief clash on Sunday between the pro-police demonstrators and about 15 people who converged on them shouting "you support baby killers", while one among them trampled and ripped an American flag.

The two groups met in the middle of the street, face to face, and began shouting at each other, though tensions cooled after the pro-police group disbanded."

So the (mostly white) pro-police group was berated and left?

Here's video showing the pro police rally members being given the finger, yelled at, and having to watch a guy walk down the middle the the street walking on an American flag. Class act that is....

I guess my thought of a pro police rally in Ferguson being viewed by local citizens as racist was right on point.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

One thing you guys are right about is that it's about racism. You don't want to hear it though because you are so used to black people being the victim, which has always been the case. You refuse to even consider that it's possible that there are hateful black people who consider all non-black people evil.

For example, this guy. It was all a set up.

How ####### racist can you be? No, he's not in the majority but there are plenty of people that think like this. This racist piece of #### should lose his job.

A place that I love will now forever be known for something terrible all thanks to a lie. A city that was making a great come back, will now be an awful place to live. It is now a place to be avoided instead of invested in. It's so ####### sad.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I don't know why you think differently, or think you're qualified to tell me what I can and can't consider. But not only can I consider the possibility in the bolded, but I assume it's the truth. There's racists of all colors everywhere.

I agree with the rest of your post- it's a shame and it's sad. Some people in positions of power in the St Louis were complicit in the mess this has become- even a conservative blogger couldn't avoid that conclusion after reading the DOJ report. But that doesn't make it less tragic for the residents of the area, who in my experiences are almost all top notch people and who likely had nothing to do with any of this, directly or indirectly. It sucks for them, no question.

It isn't a random guess, it's from your posts. There are white racist dickhead cops, no doubt about it. However I haven't seen you acknowledge that this whole mess in Ferguson has nothing to do with a racist cop and was exasperated by racist blacks. Again, some of the people, maybe a lot of them, weren't from Ferguson or even Missouri for that matter. They are trouble makers and opportunists. If you have acknowledged this, I apologize.

 

[matttyl]

Tobias, all I said was that if people did in fact have a protest or rally or whatever for the two shot officers of Ferguson, that it would likely be viewed by some as racist. In that a "pro police rally" in fact happened, which was about 80-90% white - and a shouting match erupted from the protesters already there, and an American flag was trampled - I don't think you can say that my thought was wrong.

Umm .... you seemed to say right here that the protestors care about the Brown incident but not the police shooting. You even said that these priorities were "an example of why the police there likely do have a preconceived notion of black men in that community."

How could I make any definitive statement with a question? Again, it was just a question that I asked. When Brown was shot the street erupted with hundreds of people. When two innocent cops were shot a rally happened a few days later by a few dozen, which was then disbanded when other protesters confronted them and desecrated American flags.

 

[TobiasFunke]

One thing you guys are right about is that it's about racism. You don't want to hear it though because you are so used to black people being the victim, which has always been the case. You refuse to even consider that it's possible that there are hateful black people who consider all non-black people evil.

For example, this guy. It was all a set up.

How ####### racist can you be? No, he's not in the majority but there are plenty of people that think like this. This racist piece of #### should lose his job.

A place that I love will now forever be known for something terrible all thanks to a lie. A city that was making a great come back, will now be an awful place to live. It is now a place to be avoided instead of invested in. It's so ####### sad.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I don't know why you think differently, or think you're qualified to tell me what I can and can't consider. But not only can I consider the possibility in the bolded, but I assume it's the truth. There's racists of all colors everywhere.

I agree with the rest of your post- it's a shame and it's sad. Some people in positions of power in the St Louis were complicit in the mess this has become- even a conservative blogger couldn't avoid that conclusion after reading the DOJ report. But that doesn't make it less tragic for the residents of the area, who in my experiences are almost all top notch people and who likely had nothing to do with any of this, directly or indirectly. It sucks for them, no question.

It isn't a random guess, it's from your posts. There are white racist dickhead cops, no doubt about it. However I haven't seen you acknowledge that this whole mess in Ferguson has nothing to do with a racist cop and was exasperated by racist blacks. Again, some of the people, maybe a lot of them, weren't from Ferguson or even Missouri for that matter. They are trouble makers and opportunists. If you have acknowledged this, I apologize.

1. I don't have any idea what was going through Officer Wilson's head when he pulled the trigger, or the basis for those thoughts. From what I've read I suspect he did feel threatened, but I don't know exactly why he felt like that or whether his reaction matched the seriousness of the perceived threat. I also don't know why he initially confronted Brown. I don't know why he pulled the trigger as many times as he did. And I don't know if he would have acted in the exact same manner if Brown were white, or if he were 5'2", or if he were dressed up as a clown. Neither do you. Neither do any of the protestors.

2. I have no idea how many protestors are racists. A couple of them at least, probably, but generally speaking I try not to accuse people of being racist without evidence of racism.

3. I really doubt you can find anything in my posts that suggests I don't think there's any racist black people. That's an absurd thing to say. I would never say it and I don't know where you might have gotten that impression.

4. I've condemned the looting over and over again in this thread. I've described the looters in far harsher words than the ones you chose here. I think I've mentioned that at least some of them likely came from elsewhere with the intention of causing trouble. I've flagged the rebuilding efforts and done everything I could to support them. I don't know what else I can say on that subject.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias, all I said was that if people did in fact have a protest or rally or whatever for the two shot officers of Ferguson, that it would likely be viewed by some as racist. In that a "pro police rally" in fact happened, which was about 80-90% white - and a shouting match erupted from the protesters already there, and an American flag was trampled - I don't think you can say that my thought was wrong.

Umm .... you seemed to say right here that the protestors care about the Brown incident but not the police shooting. You even said that these priorities were "an example of why the police there likely do have a preconceived notion of black men in that community."

How could I make any definitive statement with a question? Again, it was just a question that I asked. When Brown was shot the street erupted with hundreds of people. When two innocent cops were shot a rally happened a few days later by a few dozen, which was then disbanded when other protesters confronted them and desecrated American flags.

Putting a question mark at the end of the post doesn't change it- the question mark seems to ask about the propriety of caring about one and not the other, suggesting hypocrisy or misplaced priorities. It has nothing to do with whether the two statements are true. If I said something like "so vegetarians care about not killing chickens for human consumption but they have no problem with how they're treated in egg-laying facilities"? I'm obviously trying to call out what I see as inconsistency with my question, not asking whether the two facts that precede it are true.

If that's not what you were doing in your post, I don't know what to tell you, because that's clearly how it reads.

 

[matttyl]

Tobias, all I said was that if people did in fact have a protest or rally or whatever for the two shot officers of Ferguson, that it would likely be viewed by some as racist. In that a "pro police rally" in fact happened, which was about 80-90% white - and a shouting match erupted from the protesters already there, and an American flag was trampled - I don't think you can say that my thought was wrong.

Umm .... you seemed to say right here that the protestors care about the Brown incident but not the police shooting. You even said that these priorities were "an example of why the police there likely do have a preconceived notion of black men in that community."

How could I make any definitive statement with a question? Again, it was just a question that I asked. When Brown was shot the street erupted with hundreds of people. When two innocent cops were shot a rally happened a few days later by a few dozen, which was then disbanded when other protesters confronted them and desecrated American flags.

Putting a question mark at the end of the post doesn't change it- the question mark seems to ask about the propriety of caring about one and not the other, suggesting hypocrisy or misplaced priorities. It has nothing to do with whether the two statements are true. If I said something like "so vegetarians care about not killing chickens for human consumption but they have no problem with how they're treated in egg-laying facilities"? I'm obviously trying to call out what I see as inconsistency with my question, not asking whether the two facts that precede it are true.

If that's not what you were doing in your post, I don't know what to tell you, because that's clearly how it reads.

Correct, I'm suggesting hypocrisy, not outright stating it. Big difference. Like the difference between analogy and comparison.....or not.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

One thing you guys are right about is that it's about racism. You don't want to hear it though because you are so used to black people being the victim, which has always been the case. You refuse to even consider that it's possible that there are hateful black people who consider all non-black people evil.

For example, this guy. It was all a set up.

How ####### racist can you be? No, he's not in the majority but there are plenty of people that think like this. This racist piece of #### should lose his job.

A place that I love will now forever be known for something terrible all thanks to a lie. A city that was making a great come back, will now be an awful place to live. It is now a place to be avoided instead of invested in. It's so ####### sad.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I don't know why you think differently, or think you're qualified to tell me what I can and can't consider. But not only can I consider the possibility in the bolded, but I assume it's the truth. There's racists of all colors everywhere.

I agree with the rest of your post- it's a shame and it's sad. Some people in positions of power in the St Louis were complicit in the mess this has become- even a conservative blogger couldn't avoid that conclusion after reading the DOJ report. But that doesn't make it less tragic for the residents of the area, who in my experiences are almost all top notch people and who likely had nothing to do with any of this, directly or indirectly. It sucks for them, no question.

It isn't a random guess, it's from your posts. There are white racist dickhead cops, no doubt about it. However I haven't seen you acknowledge that this whole mess in Ferguson has nothing to do with a racist cop and was exasperated by racist blacks. Again, some of the people, maybe a lot of them, weren't from Ferguson or even Missouri for that matter. They are trouble makers and opportunists. If you have acknowledged this, I apologize.

1. I don't have any idea what was going through Officer Wilson's head when he pulled the trigger, or the basis for those thoughts. From what I've read I suspect he did feel threatened, but I don't know exactly why he felt like that or whether his reaction matched the seriousness of the perceived threat. I also don't know why he initially confronted Brown. I don't know why he pulled the trigger as many times as he did. And I don't know if he would have acted in the exact same manner if Brown were white, or if he were 5'2", or if he were dressed up as a clown. Neither do you. Neither do any of the protestors.

2. I have no idea how many protestors are racists. A couple of them at least, probably, but generally speaking I try not to accuse people of being racist without evidence of racism.

3. I really doubt you can find anything in my posts that suggests I don't think there's any racist black people. That's an absurd thing to say. I would never say it and I don't know where you might have gotten that impression.

4. I've condemned the looting over and over again in this thread. I've described the looters in far harsher words than the ones you chose here. I think I've mentioned that at least some of them likely came from elsewhere with the intention of causing trouble. I've flagged the rebuilding efforts and done everything I could to support them. I don't know what else I can say on that subject.

1. You don't know what was going through Wilsons head but always act like you know what is going through all of our heads.

2. You try not to accuse people of being racist but imply any of us who question the black community are racist.

3. Your many post that are over the top in defense of the black community suggest otherwise

4. See # 2 (you suspect a couple are racist).......Does that mean of the hundreds only two?

 

[TobiasFunke]

One thing you guys are right about is that it's about racism. You don't want to hear it though because you are so used to black people being the victim, which has always been the case. You refuse to even consider that it's possible that there are hateful black people who consider all non-black people evil.

For example, this guy. It was all a set up.

How ####### racist can you be? No, he's not in the majority but there are plenty of people that think like this. This racist piece of #### should lose his job.

A place that I love will now forever be known for something terrible all thanks to a lie. A city that was making a great come back, will now be an awful place to live. It is now a place to be avoided instead of invested in. It's so ####### sad.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I don't know why you think differently, or think you're qualified to tell me what I can and can't consider. But not only can I consider the possibility in the bolded, but I assume it's the truth. There's racists of all colors everywhere.

I agree with the rest of your post- it's a shame and it's sad. Some people in positions of power in the St Louis were complicit in the mess this has become- even a conservative blogger couldn't avoid that conclusion after reading the DOJ report. But that doesn't make it less tragic for the residents of the area, who in my experiences are almost all top notch people and who likely had nothing to do with any of this, directly or indirectly. It sucks for them, no question.

It isn't a random guess, it's from your posts. There are white racist dickhead cops, no doubt about it. However I haven't seen you acknowledge that this whole mess in Ferguson has nothing to do with a racist cop and was exasperated by racist blacks. Again, some of the people, maybe a lot of them, weren't from Ferguson or even Missouri for that matter. They are trouble makers and opportunists. If you have acknowledged this, I apologize.

1. I don't have any idea what was going through Officer Wilson's head when he pulled the trigger, or the basis for those thoughts. From what I've read I suspect he did feel threatened, but I don't know exactly why he felt like that or whether his reaction matched the seriousness of the perceived threat. I also don't know why he initially confronted Brown. I don't know why he pulled the trigger as many times as he did. And I don't know if he would have acted in the exact same manner if Brown were white, or if he were 5'2", or if he were dressed up as a clown. Neither do you. Neither do any of the protestors.

2. I have no idea how many protestors are racists. A couple of them at least, probably, but generally speaking I try not to accuse people of being racist without evidence of racism.

3. I really doubt you can find anything in my posts that suggests I don't think there's any racist black people. That's an absurd thing to say. I would never say it and I don't know where you might have gotten that impression.

4. I've condemned the looting over and over again in this thread. I've described the looters in far harsher words than the ones you chose here. I think I've mentioned that at least some of them likely came from elsewhere with the intention of causing trouble. I've flagged the rebuilding efforts and done everything I could to support them. I don't know what else I can say on that subject.

1. You don't know what was going through Wilsons head but always act like you know what is going through all of our heads.

2. You try not to accuse people of being racist but imply any of us who question the black community are racist.

3. Your many post that are over the top in defense of the black community suggest otherwise

4. See # 2 (you suspect a couple are racist).......Does that mean of the hundreds only two?

1. Show me a post where I do that and I'll apologize for it ... if you can find one. I always try to address the content, not the poster.

2 See above. Saying an argument sounds racist is not the same as saying that the person is racist. Not that I do that very often either- I doubt there's more than a couple posts among my hundreds in this thread where I say another post sounds racist.

3. That's ridiculous. Defending a community from attacks or sticking up for it means you don't think there are any racists among them? I also frequently defend my hometown, fans of the various teams I like, fans of the various sports I like, members of my religion, members of other religions, the posters in this forum ... all of which almost certainly contain racists, because any large group of people likely contains racists.

4. I have no idea what you're saying here.

 

[General Tso]

No, you didn't. You brought up a 7 month old article that you needed go find via google about "dozens" of people. That's not "the black community doing more" at all. I think you know that.

Where are the protests and marches of hundreds or thousands?

Huh? Did you not click on all the links I included?

Read this one again. It provides exactly what you are asking for. Lots of protests, with hundreds or more involved. It has video of them and everything.

And I have no idea what "needed to go find via google" has to do with anything. I knew they'd happened and been written up, I just googled it to find those reports. Do you have links committed to memory or something? Nor do I have any idea what the timing has to do with it, whether they're 7 months old or 5 years old or whatever. What exactly are you trying to say? That black people used to care about black on black crime but they abruptly stopped 7 months ago? That unless they're protesting it every day it doesn't count in your eyes?

Honestly you've lost me here. What point are you trying to make with this "black on black crime" argument?

So an article from "The Atlantic" that's 3 years old with a video of Chicago from 5 years ago and Newark from 6 years ago?My point, rather than argument cause it's not really debatable, is when there is a white on black crime (Fergueson, Zimmerman, whatever) it makes national news - there are protests and marches. These are for individual situations with singular deaths. It makes nationals and international news and gets thousands of people gathered for a singular cause. You don't see that with black on black crimes, which are far more prevalent to the tune of hundreds (maybe a thousand) times more often to nearly the same degree - it at all on a national news scale. Why is that?

How come I can turn on my TV (and not just Fox News, which I don't watch by the way), or via a social media page and see nothing but these singular situations and their huge reactions - but never see anything of the other? Why do you have to go to google and pull up articles from years ago with videos of even further back to show it? Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all - what I'm saying is that when it does happen it's on a far smaller scale, and never receives any "real" attention (which I understand are two different issues, but both exist).

Because potentially racially charged crime makes for a better story? In all the stories that grab national news the black victim is also unarmed. Brown, Garner, Rice, Grant, Martin ... all of them. Once the victim is armed the notion that race played a role in the incident falls by the wayside, right or wrong. That's just what interests the public, and thus what the media reports. That's less than ideal I guess, but it's hardly surprising and I'm not sure what it has to do with anything. It certainly has nothing to do with your clearly incorrect claim that the black community doesn't care very much about black on black violence. And as to your second claim that those attitudes and marches and sentiments doesn't receive any real attention ... I'm with you, obviously. You shouldn't have to read the Atlantic Monthly to know that black people care a lot about the violence in their communities.

Maybe you just don't live in areas where homicide is prevalent, but in the NYC Metro area, there are always stories of drive-by shootings where an unarmed black person (even kids sitting in their homes) dies.

How about black on white crime? My cousin was shot in the neck and paralyzed in Hartford many years ago. He was white and the person responsible was black. The kid was allegedly cleaning his father's gun out the window and it allegedly went off by accident - and just so happened to hit my cousin in the neck while he was walking down an uncrowded street. My cousin was gay by the way - and dressed very flamboyantly at a time when people weren't as tolerant. The story was largely ignored by the Hartford press and the kid was never charged with anything. Not sure how or if it relates to any of this, but the random shooting stuff triggered a very bad memory for me.

 

[avoiding injuries]

The shooter of the police is saying that he was involved in a separate argument that took place hundreds of yards away and that the cops were hit by stray bullets.

The most amazing part of that story is that the news station that reported it seems like they actually believe it.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

One thing you guys are right about is that it's about racism. You don't want to hear it though because you are so used to black people being the victim, which has always been the case. You refuse to even consider that it's possible that there are hateful black people who consider all non-black people evil.

For example, this guy. It was all a set up.

How ####### racist can you be? No, he's not in the majority but there are plenty of people that think like this. This racist piece of #### should lose his job.

A place that I love will now forever be known for something terrible all thanks to a lie. A city that was making a great come back, will now be an awful place to live. It is now a place to be avoided instead of invested in. It's so ####### sad.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I don't know why you think differently, or think you're qualified to tell me what I can and can't consider. But not only can I consider the possibility in the bolded, but I assume it's the truth. There's racists of all colors everywhere.

I agree with the rest of your post- it's a shame and it's sad. Some people in positions of power in the St Louis were complicit in the mess this has become- even a conservative blogger couldn't avoid that conclusion after reading the DOJ report. But that doesn't make it less tragic for the residents of the area, who in my experiences are almost all top notch people and who likely had nothing to do with any of this, directly or indirectly. It sucks for them, no question.

It isn't a random guess, it's from your posts. There are white racist dickhead cops, no doubt about it. However I haven't seen you acknowledge that this whole mess in Ferguson has nothing to do with a racist cop and was exasperated by racist blacks. Again, some of the people, maybe a lot of them, weren't from Ferguson or even Missouri for that matter. They are trouble makers and opportunists. If you have acknowledged this, I apologize.

1. I don't have any idea what was going through Officer Wilson's head when he pulled the trigger, or the basis for those thoughts. From what I've read I suspect he did feel threatened, but I don't know exactly why he felt like that or whether his reaction matched the seriousness of the perceived threat. I also don't know why he initially confronted Brown. I don't know why he pulled the trigger as many times as he did. And I don't know if he would have acted in the exact same manner if Brown were white, or if he were 5'2", or if he were dressed up as a clown. Neither do you. Neither do any of the protestors.

2. I have no idea how many protestors are racists. A couple of them at least, probably, but generally speaking I try not to accuse people of being racist without evidence of racism.

3. I really doubt you can find anything in my posts that suggests I don't think there's any racist black people. That's an absurd thing to say. I would never say it and I don't know where you might have gotten that impression.

4. I've condemned the looting over and over again in this thread. I've described the looters in far harsher words than the ones you chose here. I think I've mentioned that at least some of them likely came from elsewhere with the intention of causing trouble. I've flagged the rebuilding efforts and done everything I could to support them. I don't know what else I can say on that subject.

1. You don't know what was going through Wilsons head but always act like you know what is going through all of our heads.

2. You try not to accuse people of being racist but imply any of us who question the black community are racist.

3. Your many post that are over the top in defense of the black community suggest otherwise

4. See # 2 (you suspect a couple are racist).......Does that mean of the hundreds only two?

1. Show me a post where I do that and I'll apologize for it ... if you can find one. I always try to address the content, not the poster.

2 See above. Saying an argument sounds racist is not the same as saying that the person is racist. Not that I do that very often either- I doubt there's more than a couple posts among my hundreds in this thread where I say another post sounds racist.

3. That's ridiculous. Defending a community from attacks or sticking up for it means you don't think there are any racists among them? I also frequently defend my hometown, fans of the various teams I like, fans of the various sports I like, members of my religion, members of other religions, the posters in this forum ... all of which almost certainly contain racists, because any large group of people likely contains racists.

4. I have no idea what you're saying here.

My apologies if I'm wrong, I may be thinking of somebody else. Again my humble apologies.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Black UVA student bloodied during arrest; governor demands investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/us/uva-police-brutality-allegations/index.html

So from now on when a black person gets injured during an arrest, we will have to have independent investigations? Will the white suspects /criminals get the same course of action?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Black UVA student bloodied during arrest; governor demands investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/us/uva-police-brutality-allegations/index.html

So from now on when a black person gets injured during an arrest, we will have to have independent investigations? Will the white suspects /criminals get the same course of action?

Did you ever get turned away from a bar after trying to use a fake ID in college? How about your white friends? Any of you end up pinned to the ground by the cops and bleeding from the head?

As for your last question- yes, when stuff like this happens with arrests of white people and someone captures it on camera, the #### hits the fan. Remember this one? The officer was quickly fired, an investigation was launched by the AG, and the sheriff could not possibly have been more apologetic (even talking about how this shows that body cameras are needed).

 

[matttyl]

Man UVA can't catch a break on all the bad publicity over the past year or two....

 

[jonessed]

Unfortunately the video seems to just show them cuffing him and not how he cut his head or if he resisted arrest.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Black UVA student bloodied during arrest; governor demands investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/us/uva-police-brutality-allegations/index.html

So from now on when a black person gets injured during an arrest, we will have to have independent investigations? Will the white suspects /criminals get the same course of action?

Did you ever get turned away from a bar after trying to use a fake ID in college? How about your white friends? Any of you end up pinned to the ground by the cops and bleeding from the head?

As for your last question- yes, when stuff like this happens with arrests of white people and someone captures it on camera, the #### hits the fan. Remember this one? The officer was quickly fired, an investigation was launched by the AG, and the sheriff could not possibly have been more apologetic (even talking about how this shows that body cameras are needed).

So it is a common response for the governor of a state to get involved when a drunk college student gets injured in the process of an arrest. C'mon this is getting ridiculous. You are probably right. The police were called and when they showed up I bet they were just ecstatic to see it was a black man. I bet they said to each other, sweet we get to bounce a black kids head against the pavement. I can't wait. Maybe from now on when a black person is involved they should just hand him the handcuffs and ask him politely to put them on. Again if you are black, white or any other color, if the police have to be called there is a chance you have done something wrong and you may get your head bounced of the ground if things don't go right. My white son was tackled to the ground by three white police officers because he was at a party when a fight broke out and when the cops got there he ran. Lesson he learned , next time don't ####### run or oppose the police. Maybe I should have contacted the governor.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Black UVA student bloodied during arrest; governor demands investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/us/uva-police-brutality-allegations/index.html

So from now on when a black person gets injured during an arrest, we will have to have independent investigations? Will the white suspects /criminals get the same course of action?

Did you ever get turned away from a bar after trying to use a fake ID in college? How about your white friends? Any of you end up pinned to the ground by the cops and bleeding from the head?

As for your last question- yes, when stuff like this happens with arrests of white people and someone captures it on camera, the #### hits the fan. Remember this one? The officer was quickly fired, an investigation was launched by the AG, and the sheriff could not possibly have been more apologetic (even talking about how this shows that body cameras are needed).

So it is a common response for the governor of a state to get involved when a drunk college student gets injured in the process of an arrest. C'mon this is getting ridiculous. You are probably right. The police were called and when they showed up I bet they were just ecstatic to see it was a black man. I bet they said to each other, sweet we get to bounce a black kids head against the pavement. I can't wait. Maybe from now on when a black person is involved they should just hand him the handcuffs and ask him politely to put them on. Again if you are black, white or any other color, if the police have to be called there is a chance you have done something wrong and you may get your head bounced of the ground if things don't go right. My white son was tackled to the ground by three white police officers because he was at a party when a fight broke out and when the cops got there he ran. Lesson he learned , next time don't ####### run or oppose the police. Maybe I should have contacted the governor.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.



Look, I get what you're saying. It can seem unfair to immediately jump to allegations that race played a role in a specific incident without all the facts. But there are many, many concrete reasons why it's OK to at least ask whether racial bias played a role in how law enforcement and/or the justice system treated a civilian. There are statistics on traffic stops and stop-and-frisks and sentencing disparities that separate all factors other than race that have been cited over and over again in the 224 pages of this thread. There's mountains of anecdotal evidence, from stories told by black people (also in this thread) to behavior many of us have observed in our communities to tales told by ex-cops. There's confirmations of blatant racism in law enforcement seemingly any time someone chooses to dig for it, most recently in the DOJ report on the Ferguson cops and St. Louis cops and local officials.

You want to stick your head in the sand and pretend there's no reason to ask these questions, that's your business. But complaining about people asking common sense questions based on overwhelming evidence showing the questions are valid?

 

[Clifford]

Black UVA student bloodied during arrest; governor demands investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/us/uva-police-brutality-allegations/index.html

So from now on when a black person gets injured during an arrest, we will have to have independent investigations? Will the white suspects /criminals get the same course of action?

Did you ever get turned away from a bar after trying to use a fake ID in college? How about your white friends? Any of you end up pinned to the ground by the cops and bleeding from the head?

As for your last question- yes, when stuff like this happens with arrests of white people and someone captures it on camera, the #### hits the fan. Remember this one? The officer was quickly fired, an investigation was launched by the AG, and the sheriff could not possibly have been more apologetic (even talking about how this shows that body cameras are needed).

Again if you are black, white or any other color, if the police have to be called there is a chance you have done something wrong and you may get your head bounced of the ground if things don't go right. My white son was tackled to the ground by three white police officers because he was at a party when a fight broke out and when the cops got there he ran. Lesson he learned , next time don't ####### run or oppose the police. Maybe I should have contacted the governor.

There is also a chance you haven't done jack ####, and increasingly police are arresting people for "resisting arrest" with no other charge filed. How is that possible if the police are not harassing and bullying people who can't even be charged with a crime, much less convicted.

Truth is, the police have to do a much, much, much better job of representing themselves in the public eye. They are public servants, no different from any other public servant, and are subject to scrutiny. They are not dealing with it well, and people are getting fed up.

If cops want to turn the tide of public opinion and make their own jobs much easier, they need to stop resolving every situation that doesn't go exactly how they want it with arrests and brutality. And yes, anytime a kid gets bloodied by the cops for attempting a misdemeanor it does deserve scrutiny. The long rap sheet on bad cops beating people up is the reason.

 

[Sweet J]

Black UVA student bloodied during arrest; governor demands investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/us/uva-police-brutality-allegations/index.html

So from now on when a black person gets injured during an arrest, we will have to have independent investigations? Will the white suspects /criminals get the same course of action?

Did you ever get turned away from a bar after trying to use a fake ID in college? How about your white friends? Any of you end up pinned to the ground by the cops and bleeding from the head?

As for your last question- yes, when stuff like this happens with arrests of white people and someone captures it on camera, the #### hits the fan. Remember this one? The officer was quickly fired, an investigation was launched by the AG, and the sheriff could not possibly have been more apologetic (even talking about how this shows that body cameras are needed).

I have mixed feelings here, because, historically, college students are, well, qssholes. I think it's been definitively proven. They are like a weird breed of animal that is sub-human. Particularly when drunk and in a large group.

If I hear police roughed-up some drunk college students outside of a bar, my mind goes to a happy place. I kind of hate admitting it.

So. . . yeah.

 

[Clifford]

This guy is on the UVA honor committee. Cited as a leader of several campus organizations. Also, UVA students aren't quite the same as you'd find at most state schools.

 

[matttyl]

Black UVA student bloodied during arrest; governor demands investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/us/uva-police-brutality-allegations/index.html

So from now on when a black person gets injured during an arrest, we will have to have independent investigations? Will the white suspects /criminals get the same course of action?

Did you ever get turned away from a bar after trying to use a fake ID in college? How about your white friends? Any of you end up pinned to the ground by the cops and bleeding from the head?

As for your last question- yes, when stuff like this happens with arrests of white people and someone captures it on camera, the #### hits the fan. Remember this one? The officer was quickly fired, an investigation was launched by the AG, and the sheriff could not possibly have been more apologetic (even talking about how this shows that body cameras are needed).

So it is a common response for the governor of a state to get involved when a drunk college student gets injured in the process of an arrest. C'mon this is getting ridiculous. You are probably right. The police were called and when they showed up I bet they were just ecstatic to see it was a black man. I bet they said to each other, sweet we get to bounce a black kids head against the pavement. I can't wait. Maybe from now on when a black person is involved they should just hand him the handcuffs and ask him politely to put them on. Again if you are black, white or any other color, if the police have to be called there is a chance you have done something wrong and you may get your head bounced of the ground if things don't go right. My white son was tackled to the ground by three white police officers because he was at a party when a fight broke out and when the cops got there he ran. Lesson he learned , next time don't ####### run or oppose the police. Maybe I should have contacted the governor.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.



Look, I get what you're saying. It can seem unfair to immediately jump to allegations that race played a role in a specific incident without all the facts. But there are many, many concrete reasons why it's OK to at least ask whether racial bias played a role in how law enforcement and/or the justice system treated a civilian. There are statistics on traffic stops and stop-and-frisks and sentencing disparities that separate all factors other than race that have been cited over and over again in the 224 pages of this thread. There's mountains of anecdotal evidence, from stories told by black people (also in this thread) to behavior many of us have observed in our communities to tales told by ex-cops. There's confirmations of blatant racism in law enforcement seemingly any time someone chooses to dig for it, most recently in the DOJ report on the Ferguson cops and St. Louis cops and local officials.

You want to stick your head in the sand and pretend there's no reason to ask these questions, that's your business. But complaining about people asking common sense questions based on overwhelming evidence showing the questions are valid?

Or maybe the Charlottesville cops are just far too rough with any younger person when it comes to alcohol related offenses (even if only perceived) with UVA students.

That girl spent 24 hours in jail after buying bottled water.

I'm not at all attempting to justify the actions of the cops in the recent incident, just saying that given previous history with that town, maybe race didn't have anything to do with it - maybe all the law enforcement officers are ***** when it comes to enforcing underage drinking. This may be especially true since events in that town in the recent past had a national story about the Kappa Alpha frat there (alcohol related), and the Hannah Graham rape/murder (also alcohol related).

This town, and that school specifically has had to deal with a serial killer, a huge frat rape allegation controversy that was in Rolling Stone magazine, a history of overzealous cops with (perceived) alcohol related offenses......but when this happens it automatically becomes a race related situation? I'm not saying it's not, but lets have the facts show that and not automatically go to that conclusion.

 

[matttyl]

This guy is on the UVA honor committee. Cited as a leader of several campus organizations. Also, UVA students aren't quite the same as you'd find at most state schools.

Fully agree, and I say that with family members having graduated from there, and with other family members currently attending. Honestly, they can be *****. They feel they are so superior to that other state school down in Blacksburg (VA Tech), a sentiment that may be justified - whatever. I can potentially see that here, as the video has this kid on tape yelling "I go to UVA" - as if that should matter in this situation.

 

[Sweet J]

This guy is on the UVA honor committee. Cited as a leader of several campus organizations. Also, UVA students aren't quite the same as you'd find at most state schools.

Oh, please. There are 20,000 kids at UVA. ALL College students, everywhere, are (generally) jackholes after midnight and when they are with a group of friends. Harvard, Yale, UVA, Arizona State, Local Commuter School USA, whatever.

And I don't care about a kid's grades or whether or not he is on the "honor committee." That doesn't stop him from sht-for-brains when he's drunk. Don't you remember college? We were ALL jerks. Smart, dumb, white, black, athlete, fraternaty, it didn't matter.

EDIT: I know I come across as a grumpy old man. And I guess I am. But I've lived next door to too many college students, grad students, law students, etc. for it not to touch a nerve.

But has got nothing to do with this thread. Carry on. . . .

 

[PinkydaPimp]

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/18/noam_chomsky_intentional_ignorance_fuels_american_racism/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

"The appalling statistics of todays circumstances of African-American life can be confronted by other bitter residues of a shameful past, laments about black cultural inferiority, or worse, forgetting how our wealth and privilege was created in no small part by the centuries of torture and degradation of which we are the beneficiaries and they remain the victims, Chomsky notes. As for the very partial and hopelessly inadequate compensation that decency would require that lies somewhere between the memory hole and anathema."

 

[TobiasFunke]

Black UVA student bloodied during arrest; governor demands investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/us/uva-police-brutality-allegations/index.html

So from now on when a black person gets injured during an arrest, we will have to have independent investigations? Will the white suspects /criminals get the same course of action?

Did you ever get turned away from a bar after trying to use a fake ID in college? How about your white friends? Any of you end up pinned to the ground by the cops and bleeding from the head?

As for your last question- yes, when stuff like this happens with arrests of white people and someone captures it on camera, the #### hits the fan. Remember this one? The officer was quickly fired, an investigation was launched by the AG, and the sheriff could not possibly have been more apologetic (even talking about how this shows that body cameras are needed).

So it is a common response for the governor of a state to get involved when a drunk college student gets injured in the process of an arrest. C'mon this is getting ridiculous. You are probably right. The police were called and when they showed up I bet they were just ecstatic to see it was a black man. I bet they said to each other, sweet we get to bounce a black kids head against the pavement. I can't wait. Maybe from now on when a black person is involved they should just hand him the handcuffs and ask him politely to put them on. Again if you are black, white or any other color, if the police have to be called there is a chance you have done something wrong and you may get your head bounced of the ground if things don't go right. My white son was tackled to the ground by three white police officers because he was at a party when a fight broke out and when the cops got there he ran. Lesson he learned , next time don't ####### run or oppose the police. Maybe I should have contacted the governor.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.



Look, I get what you're saying. It can seem unfair to immediately jump to allegations that race played a role in a specific incident without all the facts. But there are many, many concrete reasons why it's OK to at least ask whether racial bias played a role in how law enforcement and/or the justice system treated a civilian. There are statistics on traffic stops and stop-and-frisks and sentencing disparities that separate all factors other than race that have been cited over and over again in the 224 pages of this thread. There's mountains of anecdotal evidence, from stories told by black people (also in this thread) to behavior many of us have observed in our communities to tales told by ex-cops. There's confirmations of blatant racism in law enforcement seemingly any time someone chooses to dig for it, most recently in the DOJ report on the Ferguson cops and St. Louis cops and local officials.

You want to stick your head in the sand and pretend there's no reason to ask these questions, that's your business. But complaining about people asking common sense questions based on overwhelming evidence showing the questions are valid?

Or maybe the Charlottesville cops are just far too rough with any younger person when it comes to alcohol related offenses (even if only perceived) with UVA students.

That girl spent 24 hours in jail after buying bottled water.

I'm not at all attempting to justify the actions of the cops in the recent incident, just saying that given previous history with that town, maybe race didn't have anything to do with it - maybe all the law enforcement officers are ***** when it comes to enforcing underage drinking. This may be especially true since events in that town in the recent past had a national story about the Kappa Alpha frat there (alcohol related), and the Hannah Graham rape/murder (also alcohol related).

This town, and that school specifically has had to deal with a serial killer, a huge frat rape allegation controversy that was in Rolling Stone magazine, a history of overzealous cops with (perceived) alcohol related offenses......but when this happens it automatically becomes a race related situation? I'm not saying it's not, but lets have the facts show that and not automatically go to that conclusion.

The problem is that there's very rarely "facts" showing that race played a role in a specific incident. No cop is gonna yell out "Im doing this because you're black!" while they're beating on someone. But that doesn't mean race didn't play a role, either consciously or subconsciously. And given the overwhelming evidence that law enforcement treats black and white people differently, people are justified in thinking race may play a role in any incident where our own personal experiences tell us something is off (for example I don't know a single white person who has ever been arrested for trying to use a fake ID at a bar, let alone slammed to the pavement causing their head to bleed).

 

[CowboysFromHell]

The problem is that there's very rarely "facts" showing that race played a role in a specific incident. No cop is gonna yell out "Im doing this because you're black!" while they're beating on someone.

Just a side note: funny how this is exactly what happens when it comes to Islamic extremism, and yet many people, including our President, refuse to admit it.



Carry on.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I can tell you what perpetuates race related issues, continually playing the race card.

As he's pinned, video captures him yelling: "I go to UVA! ... You f****** racists! What the f***? How did this happen?"

 

[TobiasFunke]

I can tell you what perpetuates race related issues, continually playing the race card.

As he's pinned, video captures him yelling: "I go to UVA! ... You f****** racists! What the f***? How did this happen?"

You may be right. But you know what definitely perpetuates race related issues? People who pretend it's not a legitimate question based on history and overwhelming evidence of law enforcement racial bias. That's what some folks call "denial." First step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one.

 

[matttyl]

The problem is that there's very rarely "facts" showing that race played a role in a specific incident. No cop is gonna yell out "Im doing this because you're black!" while they're beating on someone. But that doesn't mean race didn't play a role, either consciously or subconsciously. And given the overwhelming evidence that law enforcement treats black and white people differently, people are justified in thinking race may play a role in any incident where our own personal experiences tell us something is off (for example I don't know a single white person who has ever been arrested for trying to use a fake ID at a bar, let alone slammed to the pavement causing their head to bleed).

I've got a buddy who was arrested in Richmond, and had his arm broken when they were trying to cuff him (white guy). He wasn't "drunk" at the time - but it was New Year's a few years ago (this latest incident was St. Paddy's day which I'm sure didn't help the situation either). I posted above where ATF cops from this same town pulled a gun on a young white girl, and threw her in jail for 24 hours for buying bottled water. You can post situations from other towns and other states across the country, but I would think an example of another UVA student dealing with this same law enforcement department would hold more water (pardon the pun).

I'm not saying this wasn't racially motivated, but lets not immediately jump to that conclusion. It was 1 in the morning and an underage kid was attempting to get into a bar illegally on a holiday notorious for drinking. The indications are that he was drunk prior to the incident as well, so drunk in public. While I personally don't feel either should be a crime (or at least a big crime), the fact is that both are. The video also shows him attempting to resist arrest, which may have been the reason he was taken to the ground in the first place.

While on the ground he immediately starts cursing at the cops and calling them racist (so he jumps to that conclusion immediately), as do numerous media outlets with headlines like "Why did ABC Cops beat this black UVA student bloody?" and "Black UVA student beaten by police" and others.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The problem is that there's very rarely "facts" showing that race played a role in a specific incident. No cop is gonna yell out "Im doing this because you're black!" while they're beating on someone. But that doesn't mean race didn't play a role, either consciously or subconsciously. And given the overwhelming evidence that law enforcement treats black and white people differently, people are justified in thinking race may play a role in any incident where our own personal experiences tell us something is off (for example I don't know a single white person who has ever been arrested for trying to use a fake ID at a bar, let alone slammed to the pavement causing their head to bleed).

I've got a buddy who was arrested in Richmond, and had his arm broken when they were trying to cuff him (white guy). He wasn't "drunk" at the time - but it was New Year's a few years ago (this latest incident was St. Paddy's day which I'm sure didn't help the situation either). I posted above where ATF cops from this same town pulled a gun on a young white girl, and threw her in jail for 24 hours for buying bottled water. You can post situations from other towns and other states across the country, but I would think an example of another UVA student dealing with this same law enforcement department would hold more water (pardon the pun).

I'm not saying this wasn't racially motivated, but lets not immediately jump to that conclusion. It was 1 in the morning and an underage kid was attempting to get into a bar illegally on a holiday notorious for drinking. The indications are that he was drunk prior to the incident as well, so drunk in public. While I personally don't feel either should be a crime (or at least a big crime), the fact is that both are. The video also shows him attempting to resist arrest, which may have been the reason he was taken to the ground in the first place.

While on the ground he immediately starts cursing at the cops and calling them racist (so he jumps to that conclusion immediately), as do numerous media outlets with headlines like "Why did ABC Cops beat this black UVA student bloody?" and "Black UVA student beaten by police" and others.

I agree that nobody should conclude that. I'm saying they are right to ask the question.

As for his comments- I'm gonna give him a pass for what he said as the police were throwing him to the concrete and pinning him down. Asking him to take a step back and consider the sociopolitical ramifications of his statements as blood streams down from his head across his face seems like it's asking a bit much.

 

[matttyl]

You may be right. But you know what definitely perpetuates race related issues? People who pretend it's not a legitimate question based on history and overwhelming evidence of law enforcement racial bias. That's what some folks call "denial." First step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one.

Maybe the problem is immediately assuming that the problem is concerning race and not just over zealous AFT cops in that town (which I've already given proof of). Instead of saying that maybe these ATF cops are some serious ***** to the (likely also ****) UVA students in that town regardless of race, we have to immediately have articles titles "Black UVA student beaten by police". Of course that's going to perpetuate race relation issues.

 

[jonessed]

The problem is that there's very rarely "facts" showing that race played a role in a specific incident. No cop is gonna yell out "Im doing this because you're black!" while they're beating on someone. But that doesn't mean race didn't play a role, either consciously or subconsciously. And given the overwhelming evidence that law enforcement treats black and white people differently, people are justified in thinking race may play a role in any incident where our own personal experiences tell us something is off (for example I don't know a single white person who has ever been arrested for trying to use a fake ID at a bar, let alone slammed to the pavement causing their head to bleed).

I've got a buddy who was arrested in Richmond, and had his arm broken when they were trying to cuff him (white guy). He wasn't "drunk" at the time - but it was New Year's a few years ago (this latest incident was St. Paddy's day which I'm sure didn't help the situation either). I posted above where ATF cops from this same town pulled a gun on a young white girl, and threw her in jail for 24 hours for buying bottled water. You can post situations from other towns and other states across the country, but I would think an example of another UVA student dealing with this same law enforcement department would hold more water (pardon the pun). I'm not saying this wasn't racially motivated, but lets not immediately jump to that conclusion. It was 1 in the morning and an underage kid was attempting to get into a bar illegally on a holiday notorious for drinking. The indications are that he was drunk prior to the incident as well, so drunk in public. While I personally don't feel either should be a crime (or at least a big crime), the fact is that both are. The video also shows him attempting to resist arrest, which may have been the reason he was taken to the ground in the first place.

While on the ground he immediately starts cursing at the cops and calling them racist (so he jumps to that conclusion immediately), as do numerous media outlets with headlines like "Why did ABC Cops beat this black UVA student bloody?" and "Black UVA student beaten by police" and others.

I saw it happen in college. I think it just requires a cop to be close by. Bouncers aren't going to want to detain anyone, but if they can get an officer's attention that's pretty easy.What is the racist part of this incident anyway? That he was arrested for using a fake ID?

 

[matttyl]

Likely not worth it's own thread, but is this t-shirt racist? It's made by a surfing clothing company. Stupid sure, but racist? You be the judge....

 

[TobiasFunke]

You may be right. But you know what definitely perpetuates race related issues? People who pretend it's not a legitimate question based on history and overwhelming evidence of law enforcement racial bias. That's what some folks call "denial." First step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one.

Maybe the problem is immediately assuming that the problem is concerning race and not just over zealous AFT cops in that town (which I've already given proof of). Instead of saying that maybe these ATF cops are some serious ***** to the (likely also ****) UVA students in that town regardless of race, we have to immediately have articles titles "Black UVA student beaten by police". Of course that's going to perpetuate race relation issues.

I'd say the problem is cops acting improperly, both in this case (I'm guessing- it's possible this kid did something that necessitated being thrown down and having his skull busted like that, but it's hard to imagine) and in the mountains of data that clearly demonstrate racist law enforcement practices.

A good way to not be accused of being a racist ###hole is to not be an ###hole. Nobody can tell if your actions are motivated by race or not, but the other part is pretty easy to tell. If you're an ###hole towards a black person and you're in an industry whose racism has been demonstrated to everyone beyond a shadow of a doubt, that's just how it's gonna go down. Fair? Maybe not. But like I said, there's a pretty easy way to avoid that problem.