Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)

[lod01]

It seems a little naive to think that if this guy was wearing a camera, the footage wouldn't have been "accidentally" erased anyway.

Yeah, pretty much. 'oh a malfunction' 'It happens'.

 

[timschochet]

It seems a little naive to think that if this guy was wearing a camera, the footage wouldn't have been "accidentally" erased anyway.

Maybe. I used to be opposed to cameras for reasons like this one. Still, I have to believe that it would serve as a deterrent and cause more police to be more cautious and thoughtful before they act. There will still be done bad apples out there but cameras should make the problem less systemic. It's not a cure all but it will help. I've changed my mind.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

Here's A News Report We'd Be Reading If Walter Scott's Killing Wasn't On Video

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Let's not blow this out of proportion, fellas. I mean sure, this cop lied about what actually happened and planted evidence and the only reason we know about it is because someone happened to capture a video of it, and the local police embraced the lie and defending their own instead of vigorously investigating the incident until the video came out. But this is just one incident. Oh, and the Tamir Rice incident where the cops also lied about the events until video was found. But still, just two incidents.

I'm sure every other shooting of a civilian by law enforcement in this country went down exactly as the police said, and if we had video of those incidents we wouldn't find any discrepancies. Just two tragic shootings and two isolated bad actors in law enforcement. Not a systemic problem at all.

Personally don’t I think it is right to condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I differ from you on that. However I've come under attack for condemning the actions of large group of people, in my town, many that aren't from here, and I'm the #######. People that “burned #### down” thanks to the very people (Feds/Holder) that should have been trying to cool things down to protect the many. Funny how my last post went unchallenged. Totally cool right because there are horrible cops? Too bad more people weren't killed inconvenienced for the lies that Johnson told. If only those guys could have gotten a bomb, then there would have been real justice.

Personally don’t I think it is right to condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I differ from you on that. However I've come under attack for condemning the actions of a large group of people, in my town, many that aren't from here. People that “burned #### down” thanks to the very people (Feds/Holder) that should have been trying to cool things down to protect the many. Funny how my last post went unchallenged. Totally cool right because there are some horrible cops? Too bad more people weren't killed inconvenienced for the lies that Johnson told. If only those guys could have gotten a bomb, then there would have been real justice.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

The sad thing, is that this will be brushed under the rug as an isolated incident where a bad cop, made a "bad decision" and broke the law.

Yet, in watching that video, it seems far more likely that Slager was doing as he was trained to do. He seemed very at ease with the notion that he was within his power to shoot a fleeing man in that circumstance. My guess is that he equated the grab for the taser as a felony assault on a police officer, which entitled him to shoot the fleeing suspect. This notion of shoot first, ask questions later, has go to stop. Yes, being a police officer is a dangerous job, and they meet up with bad people on a daily basis, but many officers seem ill-equipped to deal with confrontations, and do more to escalate a situation than de-escalate, or wait for sufficient back-up. Police need better training, and a greater understanding of the responsibility they take on when they discharge their weapons.

Maybe we should be taking guns out of the hands of traffic cops, and require far more training and supervision for those police officer that we do entrust to carry weapons. How would this situation have been different if Slager was not carrying a gun? Would the public have been in any greater danger? Based on the outcome, no.

Yes cops are trained to shoot anybody that flees. It's evident by the hundreds of shootings by cops everyday in St. Louis alone.

 

[Hang 10]

So are we going to safely assume that motive for the fatal shooting was racism?

 

[timschochet]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

 

[jonessed]

It seems a little naive to think that if this guy was wearing a camera, the footage wouldn't have been "accidentally" erased anyway.

Seems a little judgmental to assume that the system will be corrupted before it even exists.

Amazing what a little life experience will do for you....

You've had a cop erase video evidence in a case against you? What kind of case was it?

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

 

[timschochet]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

i think in the end there was only one, and that testimony was widely disputed.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Let's not blow this out of proportion, fellas. I mean sure, this cop lied about what actually happened and planted evidence and the only reason we know about it is because someone happened to capture a video of it, and the local police embraced the lie and defending their own instead of vigorously investigating the incident until the video came out. But this is just one incident. Oh, and the Tamir Rice incident where the cops also lied about the events until video was found. But still, just two incidents.

I'm sure every other shooting of a civilian by law enforcement in this country went down exactly as the police said, and if we had video of those incidents we wouldn't find any discrepancies. Just two tragic shootings and two isolated bad actors in law enforcement. Not a systemic problem at all.

Personally don’t I think it is right to condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I differ from you on that. However I've come under attack for condemning the actions of a large group of people, in my town, many that aren't from here. People that “burned #### down” thanks to the very people (Feds/Holder) that should have been trying to cool things down to protect the many. Funny how my last post went unchallenged. Totally cool right because there are some horrible cops? Too bad more people weren't killed inconvenienced for the lies that Johnson told. If only those guys could have gotten a bomb, then there would have been real justice.

Sorry, I don't follow you here. I'm not condemning an entire group of people, I don't know what your last post was (I don't see it on few pages of the thread and I haven't been around for a week or so), and have no idea what the rest of this means at all, other than it sounding like you're maybe trying to put words in my mouth?

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

i think in the end there was only one, and that testimony was widely disputed.

There were many more than one that stated Brown was advancing towards the officer. I suggest you read up on that. Please take your thoughts on this to your thread. TIA

 

[BigJohn]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

This case has absolutely nothing to do with Brown's case. So, no.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

I wont speak for Bob, but not at all. I can't take two totally different incidents and draw a conclusion of one based on actions from the other.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Tim, you did the same thing in the TM case. Once it was over and time passed, you started claiming things that weren't true.

 

[timschochet]

Tim, you did the same thing in the TM case. Once it was over and time passed, you started claiming things that weren't true.

i haven't made any claims at all. I only wrote, in both cases, what seemed likely to me and what seemed unlikely.

 

[Sweet J]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

I think saying he "charged" the officer is a bit of a stretch.

What I think happened is that they got in a scuffle in the officer's car (including, possibly, fighting over his gun and Brown punching him). Brown then took off running from him. The officer then shot at Brown a few times while he was running. At that point, Brown turned around, maybe took at step towards him, and then was shot a few more times, including the killing blow on top of his head.

But I certainly could have missed something in the evidence presented.

EDIT: I also don't trust that the prosecutor that put the evidence before the grand jury, and don't trust that we necessarily got a true representation of what happened. But that's almost beside the point.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Tim, you did the same thing in the TM case. Once it was over and time passed, you started claiming things that weren't true.

i haven't made any claims at all. I only wrote, in both cases, what seemed likely to me and what seemed unlikely.

You stated only one witness said Brown was approaching the officer.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Tim, you did the same thing in the TM case. Once it was over and time passed, you started claiming things that weren't true.

i haven't made any claims at all. I only wrote, in both cases, what seemed likely to me and what seemed unlikely.

i think in the end there was only one, and that testimony was widely disputed

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

I think saying he "charged" the officer is a bit of a stretch.

What I think happened is that they got in a scuffle in the officer's car (including, possibly, fighting over his gun and Brown punching him). Brown then took off running from him. The officer then shot at Brown a few times while he was running. At that point, Brown turned around, maybe took at step towards him, and then was shot a few more times, including the killing blow on top of his head.

But I certainly could have missed something in the evidence presented.

Good point. Charged isn't the right word. 24 witnesses said Brown was walking/approaching the officer.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

I think saying he "charged" the officer is a bit of a stretch.

What I think happened is that they got in a scuffle in the officer's car (including, possibly, fighting over his gun and Brown punching him). Brown then took off running from him. The officer then shot at Brown a few times while he was running. At that point, Brown turned around, maybe took at step towards him, and then was shot a few more times, including the killing blow on top of his head.

But I certainly could have missed something in the evidence presented.

Good point. Charged isn't the right word. 24 witnesses said Brown was walking/approaching the officer.

If true, 24 > 1 highly disputed

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

I wont speak for Bob, but not at all.I can't take two totally different incidents and draw a conclusion of one based on actions from the other.

This. However my town will forever be linked to every incident by actions of a POS cop.

Oh, and Tim, the forensics and eyewitness support (not the "eyewitness" of people that testified based on what they heard happened) what Wilson said happened.

####### amazing I have to stick up for a cop if you knew me at all.

You know what is a habitual problem in this town? Murders and robberies by people of all colors that aren't cops. Too bad more actual innocent people weren't murdered because of this right?

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

I think saying he "charged" the officer is a bit of a stretch.

What I think happened is that they got in a scuffle in the officer's car (including, possibly, fighting over his gun and Brown punching him). Brown then took off running from him. The officer then shot at Brown a few times while he was running. At that point, Brown turned around, maybe took at step towards him, and then was shot a few more times, including the killing blow on top of his head.

But I certainly could have missed something in the evidence presented.

Good point. Charged isn't the right word. 24 witnesses said Brown was walking/approaching the officer.

If true, 24 > 1 highly disputed

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2014/11/29/b99ef7a8-75d3-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Tim, you did the same thing in the TM case. Once it was over and time passed, you started claiming things that weren't true.

i haven't made any claims at all. I only wrote, in both cases, what seemed likely to me and what seemed unlikely.

My GB's aunt and uncle were leaving the casino downtown 6 years ago. They got robbed at gunpoint. They gave the guy all of their money, jewelry. The guy then started to run away but suddenly stopped, turned, and shot his aunt in the head killing her. Nobody knows why. Unlikey #### happens. No they never caught him.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

I think saying he "charged" the officer is a bit of a stretch.

What I think happened is that they got in a scuffle in the officer's car (including, possibly, fighting over his gun and Brown punching him). Brown then took off running from him. The officer then shot at Brown a few times while he was running. At that point, Brown turned around, maybe took at step towards him, and then was shot a few more times, including the killing blow on top of his head.

But I certainly could have missed something in the evidence presented.

EDIT: I also don't trust that the prosecutor that put the evidence before the grand jury, and don't trust that we necessarily got a true representation of what happened. But that's almost beside the point.

If only there was evidence and an independent investigation, say by the Feds, so we could really get a true representation of what happened.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

I think saying he "charged" the officer is a bit of a stretch.

What I think happened is that they got in a scuffle in the officer's car (including, possibly, fighting over his gun and Brown punching him). Brown then took off running from him. The officer then shot at Brown a few times while he was running. At that point, Brown turned around, maybe took at step towards him, and then was shot a few more times, including the killing blow on top of his head.

But I certainly could have missed something in the evidence presented.

Good point. Charged isn't the right word. 24 witnesses said Brown was walking/approaching the officer.

If true, 24 > 1 highly disputed

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2014/11/29/b99ef7a8-75d3-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html

Your link contradicts your post. It says 7 people described Brown's movement as surrendering, two said he fell, and six more that he merely turned around. Four called it "charging" (including Wilson) and four more said he was walking back towards Wilson. So it's a minority (8 of 23) saying he walked back towards the officer. And that's counting Wilson as one of the 8 despite his obvious self-interest.

People need to stop saying that the events of the day are a settled matter. They're not, and they never will be.

 

[Sweet J]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

I think saying he "charged" the officer is a bit of a stretch.

What I think happened is that they got in a scuffle in the officer's car (including, possibly, fighting over his gun and Brown punching him). Brown then took off running from him. The officer then shot at Brown a few times while he was running. At that point, Brown turned around, maybe took at step towards him, and then was shot a few more times, including the killing blow on top of his head.

But I certainly could have missed something in the evidence presented.

Good point. Charged isn't the right word. 24 witnesses said Brown was walking/approaching the officer.

If true, 24 > 1 highly disputed

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2014/11/29/b99ef7a8-75d3-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html

The newpaper summary fits my narrative. You may determine that he was likely "charging," just like I determine that he was likely shot, stunned, and stumbling (likely stepping towards the officer in some manner, but not "charging"). But the actual eye-witness accounts are wildly different -- just like I figure most eye-witness accounts of most things are. People fit reality into their own narrative. Two people can both "honestly" give completely separate accounts of something that happens.

According to transcripts of the grand jury investigation into the deadly encounter in Ferguson, three of the witnesses to the shooting described Brown’s movements as a “charge.” Another couple said Brown may have been charging but were not sure. Most of the rest saw forward motion but described it as “steps” or “walking” or “stumbling,” with about a half dozen of these witnesses interpreting Brown’s actions as an attempt to surrender.

[snip]

Virtually all the witnesses saw Brown’s hands raised in some fashion, according to the transcripts, but there was wide disagreement over what this meant. One witness who thought Brown was charging said she saw his hands balled up into fists. Others thought the raised hands were a gesture of surrender, though some of these witnesses said they were not lifted in the traditional way, with the hands high and palms facing forward. Others thought Brown had touched a wound on his body and raised his hands in shock.

All the witnesses recalled Brown turning around to face Wilson, with some reporting that Brown was met with a wave of bullets.

Some said they saw Brown move forward despite the gunfire. A least one witness believed the teen was continuing to charge while at least one other believed Brown’s movement was the forward stagger of a severely injured man.

A blood spatter at the scene suggests that Brown moved about 21 feet back toward Wilson after turning around. The pattern of shell casings on the street suggest Wilson was moving backward as he fired at Brown.

One of the witnesses, an employee of a maintenance company who was working at the apartment complex, testified that he heard a loud bang and saw Brown run by. The witness said he then heard another gunshot and saw Brown stumble to a halt and spin around toward Wilson.

“Michael Brown was kind of moving at him like, ‘I’m giving up, hands up,’ ” the witness said. He said he heard Brown shout, “OK, OK, OK.” (Another maintenance worker testified hearing Brown say “OK.” Although some other witnesses also testified that they heard Brown say something, their accounts differed as to what he said. )

Immediately afterward, the maintenance worker said, he wrote down what he saw in case he had to recount it to police. “On Saturday, August 9th, at approximately 12:15, I witnessed one white male police officer gun down and kill one black male,” he wrote.

Another witness, a woman walking past on her way home from the library, said she saw the entire scene. She said she saw Brown “reaching into the car” during the struggle at Wilson’s SUV and heard a gunshot, which she said drew many people in the nearby apartment building to their windows. Then she saw Brown back up a bit and sprint east.

She said Brown didn’t get far before he “turned around.” He then moved forward but it was the motion of a man falling face forward. “To me it looked like murder,” she said.

But the pair of witnesses who testified that Brown charged at Wilson were adamant that the story unfolded differently.

One man who had been working on the property of the apartment complex reported seeing “some sort of confrontation” between Brown and Wilson at the window of the police vehicle.

This witness said he heard a gunshot, Brown fled, and Wilson gave chase with his weapon drawn. At one point, the witness told the grand jury, Brown turned around and “did some sort of body gesture” before coming “forward in the charging motion.”

“When he charged once more, the officer returned fire with, I would say, give an estimate of three to four shots. And that’s when Mike Brown finally collapsed right about even with this driveway,” he said.

A young woman riding through the area with her family in a van said she saw much of the events from the window and also believed unequivocally that Brown was charging, although she said he seemed at some point to have thought about raising his hands.

“When he first started running, ma’am, he was not staggering,” she told the prosecutor. “He was charging this officer and that’s how I feel it was, like he was running towards him. If he had got close enough, I feel like he would have tackled him up against the car,” she said.

To others, Brown’s movements were much harder to interpret.

The woman who had been visiting Canfield Green said they were ambiguous. This witness, who had come to show someone an outfit she had bought for a class reunion, said it appeared that Brown was not charging but rather was stunned and perhaps uneducated about how to respond to the police.

 

[lod01]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

I think saying he "charged" the officer is a bit of a stretch.

What I think happened is that they got in a scuffle in the officer's car (including, possibly, fighting over his gun and Brown punching him). Brown then took off running from him. The officer then shot at Brown a few times while he was running. At that point, Brown turned around, maybe took at step towards him, and then was shot a few more times, including the killing blow on top of his head.

But I certainly could have missed something in the evidence presented.

Good point. Charged isn't the right word. 24 witnesses said Brown was walking/approaching the officer.

What is interesting about this is that none of these 24 people apparently filmed it, yet I would guess the majority had phones with cameras. I find that quite odd in this day and age.

Or did they actually film what really happened.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Hey Bob, I've always thought Brown was wrongfully killed, not due to anything Johnson said, but because it always seemed implausible to me that Brown would run away, then turn around and charge an armed police officer. Doesn't this most recent incident at least give you pause as to whether or not that actually happened?

Despite all the witnesses that stated Brown did charge the officer?

I think saying he "charged" the officer is a bit of a stretch.

What I think happened is that they got in a scuffle in the officer's car (including, possibly, fighting over his gun and Brown punching him). Brown then took off running from him. The officer then shot at Brown a few times while he was running. At that point, Brown turned around, maybe took at step towards him, and then was shot a few more times, including the killing blow on top of his head.

But I certainly could have missed something in the evidence presented.

Good point. Charged isn't the right word. 24 witnesses said Brown was walking/approaching the officer.

If true, 24 > 1 highly disputed

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2014/11/29/b99ef7a8-75d3-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html

Your link contradicts your post. It says 7 people described Brown's movement as surrendering, two said he fell, and six more that he merely turned around. Four called it "charging" (including Wilson) and four more said he was walking back towards Wilson. So it's a minority (8 of 23) saying he walked back towards the officer. And that's counting Wilson as one of the 8 despite his obvious self-interest.

People need to stop saying that the events of the day are a settled matter. They're not, and they never will be.

My bad. I misread it as 24 witnesses saw him approaching the officer. Thanks for clarifying. Bottom line is that there were more than one witness as Tim claimed.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Let's not blow this out of proportion, fellas. I mean sure, this cop lied about what actually happened and planted evidence and the only reason we know about it is because someone happened to capture a video of it, and the local police embraced the lie and defending their own instead of vigorously investigating the incident until the video came out. But this is just one incident. Oh, and the Tamir Rice incident where the cops also lied about the events until video was found. But still, just two incidents.

I'm sure every other shooting of a civilian by law enforcement in this country went down exactly as the police said, and if we had video of those incidents we wouldn't find any discrepancies. Just two tragic shootings and two isolated bad actors in law enforcement. Not a systemic problem at all.

Personally don’t I think it is right to condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I differ from you on that. However I've come under attack for condemning the actions of a large group of people, in my town, many that aren't from here. People that “burned #### down” thanks to the very people (Feds/Holder) that should have been trying to cool things down to protect the many. Funny how my last post went unchallenged. Totally cool right because there are some horrible cops? Too bad more people weren't killed inconvenienced for the lies that Johnson told. If only those guys could have gotten a bomb, then there would have been real justice.

Sorry, I don't follow you here. I'm not condemning an entire group of people, I don't know what your last post was (I don't see it on few pages of the thread and I haven't been around for a week or so), and have no idea what the rest of this means at all, other than it sounding like you're maybe trying to put words in my mouth?

This POS cop murdered somebody so (lol ) see cops aren't bad.

Here's the story. Luckily a bunch of innocent people weren't murdered, including the two cops that were shot a couple of weeks ago during another peaceful protest. This didn't make the 24/7 news cycle though.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Nice young men.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/28/us/st-louis-metrolink-beating/index.html

Just another guy inconvenienced by peaceful protesters. I hope he understands that although Johnnson's account of what happened that day has been proven to be a huge lie, it's the discussion about race that's important.

Speaking of peaceful protesters that aren't biogts and racists at all and don't attack cops by throwing stuff at them. That was a couple of days ago. Shocking more blacks don't want to be cops.

This was EVERY night of the protests. I'm fairly alone here though when I say I don't have room in my world for bigots, racists, idiots, of any color. Keep making excuses though.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Let's not blow this out of proportion, fellas. I mean sure, this cop lied about what actually happened and planted evidence and the only reason we know about it is because someone happened to capture a video of it, and the local police embraced the lie and defending their own instead of vigorously investigating the incident until the video came out. But this is just one incident. Oh, and the Tamir Rice incident where the cops also lied about the events until video was found. But still, just two incidents.

I'm sure every other shooting of a civilian by law enforcement in this country went down exactly as the police said, and if we had video of those incidents we wouldn't find any discrepancies. Just two tragic shootings and two isolated bad actors in law enforcement. Not a systemic problem at all.

Personally don’t I think it is right to condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I differ from you on that. However I've come under attack for condemning the actions of a large group of people, in my town, many that aren't from here. People that “burned #### down” thanks to the very people (Feds/Holder) that should have been trying to cool things down to protect the many. Funny how my last post went unchallenged. Totally cool right because there are some horrible cops? Too bad more people weren't killed inconvenienced for the lies that Johnson told. If only those guys could have gotten a bomb, then there would have been real justice.

Sorry, I don't follow you here. I'm not condemning an entire group of people, I don't know what your last post was (I don't see it on few pages of the thread and I haven't been around for a week or so), and have no idea what the rest of this means at all, other than it sounding like you're maybe trying to put words in my mouth?

This POS cop murdered somebody so (lol ) see cops aren't bad.

Here's the story. Luckily a bunch of innocent people weren't murdered, including the two cops that were shot a couple of weeks ago during another peaceful protest. This didn't make the 24/7 news cycle though.

That's crazy- I remember hearing about it. I also remember this bizarre story about that O'Keefe nut (the conservative who "exposed" the ACORN voter stuff) planning to plant someone in Ferguson to try to bait protestors into chanting "kill cops" presumably so be could tape it and make them look bad. This story sure drew the crazies out of the woodwork.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Let's not blow this out of proportion, fellas. I mean sure, this cop lied about what actually happened and planted evidence and the only reason we know about it is because someone happened to capture a video of it, and the local police embraced the lie and defending their own instead of vigorously investigating the incident until the video came out. But this is just one incident. Oh, and the Tamir Rice incident where the cops also lied about the events until video was found. But still, just two incidents.

I'm sure every other shooting of a civilian by law enforcement in this country went down exactly as the police said, and if we had video of those incidents we wouldn't find any discrepancies. Just two tragic shootings and two isolated bad actors in law enforcement. Not a systemic problem at all.

Personally don’t I think it is right to condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I differ from you on that. However I've come under attack for condemning the actions of a large group of people, in my town, many that aren't from here. People that “burned #### down” thanks to the very people (Feds/Holder) that should have been trying to cool things down to protect the many. Funny how my last post went unchallenged. Totally cool right because there are some horrible cops? Too bad more people weren't killed inconvenienced for the lies that Johnson told. If only those guys could have gotten a bomb, then there would have been real justice.

Sorry, I don't follow you here. I'm not condemning an entire group of people, I don't know what your last post was (I don't see it on few pages of the thread and I haven't been around for a week or so), and have no idea what the rest of this means at all, other than it sounding like you're maybe trying to put words in my mouth?

This POS cop murdered somebody so (lol ) see cops aren't bad.

Here's the story. Luckily a bunch of innocent people weren't murdered, including the two cops that were shot a couple of weeks ago during another peaceful protest. This didn't make the 24/7 news cycle though.

That's crazy- I remember hearing about it. I also remember this bizarre story about that O'Keefe nut (the conservative who "exposed" the ACORN voter stuff) planning to plant someone in Ferguson to try to bait protestors into chanting "kill cops" presumably so be could tape it and make them look bad. This story sure drew the crazies out of the woodwork.

Pretty much the exact same thing.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Let's not blow this out of proportion, fellas. I mean sure, this cop lied about what actually happened and planted evidence and the only reason we know about it is because someone happened to capture a video of it, and the local police embraced the lie and defending their own instead of vigorously investigating the incident until the video came out. But this is just one incident. Oh, and the Tamir Rice incident where the cops also lied about the events until video was found. But still, just two incidents.

I'm sure every other shooting of a civilian by law enforcement in this country went down exactly as the police said, and if we had video of those incidents we wouldn't find any discrepancies. Just two tragic shootings and two isolated bad actors in law enforcement. Not a systemic problem at all.

Personally don’t I think it is right to condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I differ from you on that. However I've come under attack for condemning the actions of a large group of people, in my town, many that aren't from here. People that “burned #### down” thanks to the very people (Feds/Holder) that should have been trying to cool things down to protect the many. Funny how my last post went unchallenged. Totally cool right because there are some horrible cops? Too bad more people weren't killed inconvenienced for the lies that Johnson told. If only those guys could have gotten a bomb, then there would have been real justice.

Sorry, I don't follow you here. I'm not condemning an entire group of people, I don't know what your last post was (I don't see it on few pages of the thread and I haven't been around for a week or so), and have no idea what the rest of this means at all, other than it sounding like you're maybe trying to put words in my mouth?

This POS cop murdered somebody so (lol ) see cops aren't bad.

Here's the story. Luckily a bunch of innocent people weren't murdered, including the two cops that were shot a couple of weeks ago during another peaceful protest. This didn't make the 24/7 news cycle though.

That's crazy- I remember hearing about it. I also remember this bizarre story about that O'Keefe nut (the conservative who "exposed" the ACORN voter stuff) planning to plant someone in Ferguson to try to bait protestors into chanting "kill cops" presumably so be could tape it and make them look bad. This story sure drew the crazies out of the woodwork.

Pretty much the exact same thing.

Sorry, you've completely lost me again. I didn't say they were the same thing at all. I was just pointing out that lots of stuff related to the Ferguson protests makes the news cycle. I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Is it that some people did some bad stuff supposedly in the name of the protest movement? I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

 

[timschochet]

All right, I'm sorry I said one. I was going on memory and I know there was one main witness who testified to this effect in the grand jury and was contradicted by other witnesses. I remain skeptical that the police officer was truly threatened when he shot Brown, and I wondered if this current story would give anybody else pause about that. Not change your mind but at least make you reconsider what happened. I guess the answer is no.

As for you St Louis Bob, your attitude towards this entire discussion seems largely influenced by the protestors. Based on what you've described I can understand your outrage at them. But it's only a small part of a bigger picture and shouldn't affect the question of guilt or innocence of the police.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Let's not blow this out of proportion, fellas. I mean sure, this cop lied about what actually happened and planted evidence and the only reason we know about it is because someone happened to capture a video of it, and the local police embraced the lie and defending their own instead of vigorously investigating the incident until the video came out. But this is just one incident. Oh, and the Tamir Rice incident where the cops also lied about the events until video was found. But still, just two incidents.

I'm sure every other shooting of a civilian by law enforcement in this country went down exactly as the police said, and if we had video of those incidents we wouldn't find any discrepancies. Just two tragic shootings and two isolated bad actors in law enforcement. Not a systemic problem at all.

Personally don’t I think it is right to condemn an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I differ from you on that. However I've come under attack for condemning the actions of a large group of people, in my town, many that aren't from here. People that “burned #### down” thanks to the very people (Feds/Holder) that should have been trying to cool things down to protect the many. Funny how my last post went unchallenged. Totally cool right because there are some horrible cops? Too bad more people weren't killed inconvenienced for the lies that Johnson told. If only those guys could have gotten a bomb, then there would have been real justice.

Sorry, I don't follow you here. I'm not condemning an entire group of people, I don't know what your last post was (I don't see it on few pages of the thread and I haven't been around for a week or so), and have no idea what the rest of this means at all, other than it sounding like you're maybe trying to put words in my mouth?

This POS cop murdered somebody so (lol ) see cops aren't bad.

Here's the story. Luckily a bunch of innocent people weren't murdered, including the two cops that were shot a couple of weeks ago during another peaceful protest. This didn't make the 24/7 news cycle though.

That's crazy- I remember hearing about it. I also remember this bizarre story about that O'Keefe nut (the conservative who "exposed" the ACORN voter stuff) planning to plant someone in Ferguson to try to bait protestors into chanting "kill cops" presumably so be could tape it and make them look bad. This story sure drew the crazies out of the woodwork.

Pretty much the exact same thing.

Sorry, you've completely lost me again. I didn't say they were the same thing at all. I was just pointing out that lots of stuff related to the Ferguson protests makes the news cycle. I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Is it that some people did some bad stuff supposedly in the name of the protest movement? I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

It's A LOT of people are doing, and attempting to do, awfull things, over something that didn't happen here. THAT'S MY ####### PROBLEM.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

All right, I'm sorry I said one. I was going on memory and I know there was one main witness who testified to this effect in the grand jury and was contradicted by other witnesses. I remain skeptical that the police officer was truly threatened when he shot Brown, and I wondered if this current story would give anybody else pause about that. Not change your mind but at least make you reconsider what happened. I guess the answer is no.

As for you St Louis Bob, your attitude towards this entire discussion seems largely influenced by the protestors. Based on what you've described I can understand your outrage at them. But it's only a small part of a bigger picture and shouldn't affect the question of guilt or innocence of the police.

The fact that a town (a mostly black town OMG!!) that was undergoing a tremendous revitalization, that is now torn to shreds, it will forever be known as ghetto ( check out my posts at the beginning of this thread) and the people that live there, the mostly good people, are ####ed. THAT'S ANOTHER OF MY ####### PROBLEMS. St. Louis has been portrayed as some sort of white vs. black area and it couldn't be further from the truth. I've always been proud of my town, where and how I was raised. How the vast majority of people love each other despite color. Yet a lot of people, like the press, the Feds, many people here in this thread, seem to know otherwise. It ####### breaks my heart.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

No one should trust anything the police say about a police officer shooting.

Healthy skepticism is a good thing when hearing someone's account of a volatile issue, especially when said person has a vested interest in the outcome. I agree that it would be wise to have some healthy skepticism of police accounts in these instances, but it would also be wise to have the same level of skepticism of the "man on the street's" account. The Michael Brown case was a perfect example.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Pretty much the exact same thing.

Sorry, you've completely lost me again. I didn't say they were the same thing at all. I was just pointing out that lots of stuff related to the Ferguson protests makes the news cycle. I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Is it that some people did some bad stuff supposedly in the name of the protest movement? I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

It's A LOT of people are doing, and attempting to do, awfull things, over something that didn't happen here. THAT'S MY ####### PROBLEM.

Am I one of them? Am I condoning awful things that have been done? Why are you mad at me about it?

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Pretty much the exact same thing.

Sorry, you've completely lost me again. I didn't say they were the same thing at all. I was just pointing out that lots of stuff related to the Ferguson protests makes the news cycle. I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Is it that some people did some bad stuff supposedly in the name of the protest movement? I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

It's A LOT of people are doing, and attempting to do, awfull things, over something that didn't happen here. THAT'S MY ####### PROBLEM.

Am I one of them? Am I condoning awful things that have been done? Why are you mad at me about it?

Because all of your posts have been justifying this madness. All of the evidence shows that there wasn't a problem in this case or even in St. Louis historically with cops shooting people unnecessarily, but there are problems in other places, so all of this is okay to you.

As I've said many, many, times before, if you want to talk about the bull#### of how the cops are used as tax collectors, I'm 100% in your corner. However you also need to realize that the cops aren't some autonomous unit that, they are doing what they are told by local and State governments. This isn't a problem totally localized in Ferguson or Missouri.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Pretty much the exact same thing.

Sorry, you've completely lost me again. I didn't say they were the same thing at all. I was just pointing out that lots of stuff related to the Ferguson protests makes the news cycle. I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Is it that some people did some bad stuff supposedly in the name of the protest movement? I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

It's A LOT of people are doing, and attempting to do, awfull things, over something that didn't happen here. THAT'S MY ####### PROBLEM.

Am I one of them? Am I condoning awful things that have been done? Why are you mad at me about it?

Because all of your posts have been justifying this madness. All of the evidence shows that there wasn't a problem in this case or even in St. Louis historically with cops shooting people unnecessarily, but there are problems in other places, so all of this is okay to you.

As I've said many, many, times before, if you want to talk about the bull#### of how the cops are used as tax collectors, I'm 100% in your corner. However you also need to realize that the cops aren't some autonomous unit that, they are doing what they are told by local and State governments. This isn't a problem totally localized in Ferguson or Missouri.

This is totally false.

I've never attempted to justify any act of violence or property destruction towards anyone. Not even once. Certainly not "all of my posts." At most I've said I understand why people in Ferguson were angry, which I do. I hope most people understand their anger after reading the DOJ report. But that's not the same as condoning all actions. I get angry all the time for good reason, all of us do, but that doesn't give us license to do whatever we want to other people and their things when it happens.

In fact, not only have I not tried to justify those actions, I've condemned the looting over and over, and probably done more than anyone else in the thread to help rectify it by making my own donations and encouraging others to give.

I also hadn't said a single thing about the Ferguson shooting anything that followed in a week or two at least, until you replied to my post about the South Carolina shooting and how it's relevant to the bigger picture generally (NOT specifically to Ferguson) with your rant, and I asked you to clarify and you kept ranting.

Gotta say, your message of respect and tolerance and not jumping to conclusions about people and their motivations and beliefs seems to be at odds with your behavior here.

 

[Yenrub]

Here's A News Report We'd Be Reading If Walter Scott's Killing Wasn't On Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nli6RDAWREA

 

[mcintyre1]

All right, I'm sorry I said one. I was going on memory and I know there was one main witness who testified to this effect in the grand jury and was contradicted by other witnesses. I remain skeptical that the police officer was truly threatened when he shot Brown, and I wondered if this current story would give anybody else pause about that. Not change your mind but at least make you reconsider what happened. I guess the answer is no.

As for you St Louis Bob, your attitude towards this entire discussion seems largely influenced by the protestors. Based on what you've described I can understand your outrage at them. But it's only a small part of a bigger picture and shouldn't affect the question of guilt or innocence of the police.

The fact that a town (a mostly black town OMG!!) that was undergoing a tremendous revitalization, that is now torn to shreds, it will forever be known as ghetto ( check out my posts at the beginning of this thread) and the people that live there, the mostly good people, are ####ed. THAT'S ANOTHER OF MY ####### PROBLEMS. St. Louis has been portrayed as some sort of white vs. black area and it couldn't be further from the truth. I've always been proud of my town, where and how I was raised. How the vast majority of people love each other despite color. Yet a lot of people, like the press, the Feds, many people here in this thread, seem to know otherwise. It ####### breaks my heart.

Ever considered that, just maybe, some people in St. Louis would disagree with you on that?

EDIT: To be less cryptic, one of my best friends is a white guy who grew up in St. Louis. He would disagree with you. I remember he "warned" me (in that joking but kind of not way) when I was visiting not to take the wrong exit and cross the river to East St. Louis, because I'd probably get shot. Of course, that's hyperbole, but that sentiment doesn't exist if there isn't an undercurrent of "us vs. them" in the local culture.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Should the cop have shot? No.

Should the cop be prosecuted? Yes.

Was lethal force justified against a fleeing non-felon? No.

Should the cop do time? Yes.

That being said, Scott is likely still alive if he doesn't flee and he doesn't resist.

When people flee and resist, the likelihood of a bad outcome skyrockets.

Can we tell officers not to pursue?

Yeah if you are being tasered or beat up or put in an illegal chokehold, you should just lay there and take it...since that always ends well too.

Sigh.

Scott's passenger stayed with the vehicle and is still alive.

No physical force was used with Garner until he refused to comply.

It's amazing to me that the statement "resisting arrest or fleeing is more likely to end badly than complying" is considered incendiary around here.

Our country was founded as a result of the principle of refusing to comply. I'm not advocating resisting arrest, but I despise abuse of power more than just about anything else. The result should never be comply or die if there is no threat to the police officer. And you don't get to just shoot a guy just because you are too lazy or out of shape to run after him and then make excuses about how noncompliance necessitated lethal force.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Pretty much the exact same thing.

Sorry, you've completely lost me again. I didn't say they were the same thing at all. I was just pointing out that lots of stuff related to the Ferguson protests makes the news cycle. I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Is it that some people did some bad stuff supposedly in the name of the protest movement? I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

It's A LOT of people are doing, and attempting to do, awfull things, over something that didn't happen here. THAT'S MY ####### PROBLEM.

Am I one of them? Am I condoning awful things that have been done? Why are you mad at me about it?

Because all of your posts have been justifying this madness. All of the evidence shows that there wasn't a problem in this case or even in St. Louis historically with cops shooting people unnecessarily, but there are problems in other places, so all of this is okay to you.

As I've said many, many, times before, if you want to talk about the bull#### of how the cops are used as tax collectors, I'm 100% in your corner. However you also need to realize that the cops aren't some autonomous unit that, they are doing what they are told by local and State governments. This isn't a problem totally localized in Ferguson or Missouri.

This is totally false.

I've never attempted to justify any act of violence or property destruction towards anyone. Not even once. Certainly not "all of my posts." At most I've said I understand why people in Ferguson were angry, which I do. I hope most people understand their anger after reading the DOJ report. But that's not the same as condoning all actions. I get angry all the time for good reason, all of us do, but that doesn't give us license to do whatever we want to other people and their things when it happens.

In fact, not only have I not tried to justify those actions, I've condemned the looting over and over, and probably done more than anyone else in the thread to help rectify it by making my own donations and encouraging others to give.

I also hadn't said a single thing about the Ferguson shooting anything that followed in a week or two at least, until you replied to my post about the South Carolina shooting and how it's relevant to the bigger picture generally (NOT specifically to Ferguson) with your rant, and I asked you to clarify and you kept ranting.

Gotta say, your message of respect and tolerance and not jumping to conclusions about people and their motivations and beliefs seems to be at odds with your behavior here.

Bull####. Me and others that were verbally accosted (and some physically)at sporting events were "inconvenienced". Cops that had bricks and other objects thrown at them night after night were just isolated incidents. All of it justified, including the lies, by you, because of "the discussion". You weren't alone though. The press and race baiters made their money fanning the flames. The attitude and actions of Holder and the DOJ were bull#### too but they got the political clout that drives this country. I'm sure there are hundreds of posts by you condemning all of them though that I somehow missed.

Now a region that has been struggling for a long time, that was making a comeback, will be nothing. I'm not just talking about Ferguson, the entire region. A place where serious crime alreadt happens on a daily basis, I wish the national press and DOJ cared about that. I really wish somebody cared about that. I really, really, do. I guess it doesn't make the money a headline of "white cop kills black youth" does though. You win, congratulations.

All right, I'm sorry I said one. I was going on memory and I know there was one main witness who testified to this effect in the grand jury and was contradicted by other witnesses. I remain skeptical that the police officer was truly threatened when he shot Brown, and I wondered if this current story would give anybody else pause about that. Not change your mind but at least make you reconsider what happened. I guess the answer is no.

As for you St Louis Bob, your attitude towards this entire discussion seems largely influenced by the protestors. Based on what you've described I can understand your outrage at them. But it's only a small part of a bigger picture and shouldn't affect the question of guilt or innocence of the police.

The fact that a town (a mostly black town OMG!!) that was undergoing a tremendous revitalization, that is now torn to shreds, it will forever be known as ghetto ( check out my posts at the beginning of this thread) and the people that live there, the mostly good people, are ####ed. THAT'S ANOTHER OF MY ####### PROBLEMS. St. Louis has been portrayed as some sort of white vs. black area and it couldn't be further from the truth. I've always been proud of my town, where and how I was raised. How the vast majority of people love each other despite color. Yet a lot of people, like the press, the Feds, many people here in this thread, seem to know otherwise. It ####### breaks my heart.

Ever considered that, just maybe, some people in St. Louis would disagree with you on that?

EDIT: To be less cryptic, one of my best friends is a white guy who grew up in St. Louis. He would disagree with you. I remember he "warned" me (in that joking but kind of not way) when I was visiting not to take the wrong exit and cross the river to East St. Louis, because I'd probably get shot. Of course, that's hyperbole, but that sentiment doesn't exist if there isn't an undercurrent of "us vs. them" in the local culture.

There are about 3 million people here, I'm certain more than a few would disagree. So I guess all of the "mostly black" and "mostly white" quotes regarding the region & police force, hundreds, if not thousands of them, over the last six month are all my imagination?

Unless you are going to a strip club, you probably would get shot in East St. Louis. The place is no joke. It also isn't Ferguson. Well at least it wasn't.

 

[mcintyre1]

Pretty much the exact same thing.

Sorry, you've completely lost me again. I didn't say they were the same thing at all. I was just pointing out that lots of stuff related to the Ferguson protests makes the news cycle. I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Is it that some people did some bad stuff supposedly in the name of the protest movement? I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

It's A LOT of people are doing, and attempting to do, awfull things, over something that didn't happen here. THAT'S MY ####### PROBLEM.

Am I one of them? Am I condoning awful things that have been done? Why are you mad at me about it?

Because all of your posts have been justifying this madness. All of the evidence shows that there wasn't a problem in this case or even in St. Louis historically with cops shooting people unnecessarily, but there are problems in other places, so all of this is okay to you.

As I've said many, many, times before, if you want to talk about the bull#### of how the cops are used as tax collectors, I'm 100% in your corner. However you also need to realize that the cops aren't some autonomous unit that, they are doing what they are told by local and State governments. This isn't a problem totally localized in Ferguson or Missouri.

This is totally false.

I've never attempted to justify any act of violence or property destruction towards anyone. Not even once. Certainly not "all of my posts." At most I've said I understand why people in Ferguson were angry, which I do. I hope most people understand their anger after reading the DOJ report. But that's not the same as condoning all actions. I get angry all the time for good reason, all of us do, but that doesn't give us license to do whatever we want to other people and their things when it happens.

In fact, not only have I not tried to justify those actions, I've condemned the looting over and over, and probably done more than anyone else in the thread to help rectify it by making my own donations and encouraging others to give.

I also hadn't said a single thing about the Ferguson shooting anything that followed in a week or two at least, until you replied to my post about the South Carolina shooting and how it's relevant to the bigger picture generally (NOT specifically to Ferguson) with your rant, and I asked you to clarify and you kept ranting.

Gotta say, your message of respect and tolerance and not jumping to conclusions about people and their motivations and beliefs seems to be at odds with your behavior here.

Bull####. Me and others that were verbally accosted (and some physically)at sporting events were "inconvenienced". Cops that had bricks and other objects thrown at them night after night were just isolated incidents. All of it justified, including the lies, by you, because of "the discussion". You weren't alone though. The press and race baiters made their money fanning the flames. The attitude and actions of Holder and the DOJ were bull#### too but they got the political clout that drives this country. I'm sure there are hundreds of posts by you condemning all of them though that I somehow missed.

Now a region that has been struggling for a long time, that was making a comeback, will be nothing. I'm not just talking about Ferguson, the entire region. A place where serious crime alreadt happens on a daily basis, I wish the national press and DOJ cared about that. I really wish somebody cared about that. I really, really, do. I guess it doesn't make the money a headline of "white cop kills black youth" does though. You win, congratulations.

All right, I'm sorry I said one. I was going on memory and I know there was one main witness who testified to this effect in the grand jury and was contradicted by other witnesses. I remain skeptical that the police officer was truly threatened when he shot Brown, and I wondered if this current story would give anybody else pause about that. Not change your mind but at least make you reconsider what happened. I guess the answer is no.

As for you St Louis Bob, your attitude towards this entire discussion seems largely influenced by the protestors. Based on what you've described I can understand your outrage at them. But it's only a small part of a bigger picture and shouldn't affect the question of guilt or innocence of the police.

The fact that a town (a mostly black town OMG!!) that was undergoing a tremendous revitalization, that is now torn to shreds, it will forever be known as ghetto ( check out my posts at the beginning of this thread) and the people that live there, the mostly good people, are ####ed. THAT'S ANOTHER OF MY ####### PROBLEMS. St. Louis has been portrayed as some sort of white vs. black area and it couldn't be further from the truth. I've always been proud of my town, where and how I was raised. How the vast majority of people love each other despite color. Yet a lot of people, like the press, the Feds, many people here in this thread, seem to know otherwise. It ####### breaks my heart.

Ever considered that, just maybe, some people in St. Louis would disagree with you on that?

EDIT: To be less cryptic, one of my best friends is a white guy who grew up in St. Louis. He would disagree with you. I remember he "warned" me (in that joking but kind of not way) when I was visiting not to take the wrong exit and cross the river to East St. Louis, because I'd probably get shot. Of course, that's hyperbole, but that sentiment doesn't exist if there isn't an undercurrent of "us vs. them" in the local culture.

There are about 3 million people here, I'm certain more than a few would disagree. So I guess all of the "mostly black" and "mostly white" quotes regarding the region & police force, hundreds, if not thousands of them, over the last six month are all my imagination?

Unless you are going to a strip club, you probably would get shot in East St. Louis. The place is no joke. It also isn't Ferguson. Well at least it wasn't.

I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make with that statement. But, I'm glad that you can at least admit that many in St. Louis would agree that there is a problem with race relations in the metro area.

 

[Henry Ford]

No one should trust anything the police say about a police officer shooting.

No ####.

 

[Henry Ford]

It seems a little naive to think that if this guy was wearing a camera, the footage wouldn't have been "accidentally" erased anyway.

Seems a little judgmental to assume that the system will be corrupted before it even exists.

It's already in existence in several jurisdictions. The camera is sometimes turned off before things like fatal shootings happen.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make with that statement. But, I'm glad that you can at least admit that many in St. Louis would agree that there is a problem with race relations in the metro area.

Are we talking about same story?

There is peace and harmony amongst all blacks and whites everywhere in the country but St. Louis. Okay guy.

I would say things are,at least were, better between blacks and white here than most places in the country before all of the racists came into town telling people otherwise.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Pretty much the exact same thing.

Sorry, you've completely lost me again. I didn't say they were the same thing at all. I was just pointing out that lots of stuff related to the Ferguson protests makes the news cycle. I really have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Is it that some people did some bad stuff supposedly in the name of the protest movement? I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

It's A LOT of people are doing, and attempting to do, awfull things, over something that didn't happen here. THAT'S MY ####### PROBLEM.

Am I one of them? Am I condoning awful things that have been done? Why are you mad at me about it?

Because all of your posts have been justifying this madness. All of the evidence shows that there wasn't a problem in this case or even in St. Louis historically with cops shooting people unnecessarily, but there are problems in other places, so all of this is okay to you.

As I've said many, many, times before, if you want to talk about the bull#### of how the cops are used as tax collectors, I'm 100% in your corner. However you also need to realize that the cops aren't some autonomous unit that, they are doing what they are told by local and State governments. This isn't a problem totally localized in Ferguson or Missouri.

This is totally false.

I've never attempted to justify any act of violence or property destruction towards anyone. Not even once. Certainly not "all of my posts." At most I've said I understand why people in Ferguson were angry, which I do. I hope most people understand their anger after reading the DOJ report. But that's not the same as condoning all actions. I get angry all the time for good reason, all of us do, but that doesn't give us license to do whatever we want to other people and their things when it happens.

In fact, not only have I not tried to justify those actions, I've condemned the looting over and over, and probably done more than anyone else in the thread to help rectify it by making my own donations and encouraging others to give.

I also hadn't said a single thing about the Ferguson shooting anything that followed in a week or two at least, until you replied to my post about the South Carolina shooting and how it's relevant to the bigger picture generally (NOT specifically to Ferguson) with your rant, and I asked you to clarify and you kept ranting.

Gotta say, your message of respect and tolerance and not jumping to conclusions about people and their motivations and beliefs seems to be at odds with your behavior here.

Bull####. Me and others that were verbally accosted (and some physically)at sporting events were "inconvenienced". Cops that had bricks and other objects thrown at them night after night were just isolated incidents. All of it justified, including the lies, by you, because of "the discussion". You weren't alone though. The press and race baiters made their money fanning the flames. The attitude and actions of Holder and the DOJ were bull#### too but they got the political clout that drives this country. I'm sure there are hundreds of posts by you condemning all of them though that I somehow missed.

Now a region that has been struggling for a long time, that was making a comeback, will be nothing. I'm not just talking about Ferguson, the entire region. A place where serious crime alreadt happens on a daily basis, I wish the national press and DOJ cared about that. I really wish somebody cared about that. I really, really, do. I guess it doesn't make the money a headline of "white cop kills black youth" does though. You win, congratulations.

I apologized for my tone in that one post after your incident in the parking lot of the game. That was one post, several months ago. Also, that post did not "justify" those actions so much it made light of the relatively small amount of harm you sustained as compared to what others endure regularly at the hands of law enforcement. And again, I apologized for it- more than I suspect you'll do for fabricating a bunch of complete horse#### about me and what I think and said in a series of posts today and on other occasions.

I'm not even going to get in to your nonsense claim that nobody cares about serious crime, your flawed logic that caring about racism in law enforcement somehow means you can't or don't care about those things, or your assertion that I have to be angry at Holder and DOJ because you think they didn't do enough to ... well I'm not sure what. I guess you think it's DOJ's responsibility to guide national discourse, which seems a little totalitarian to me, but whatever. You seem unable to give the benefit of the doubt- or even fair and accurate treatment of what's been said and not said- to a friendly fellow FBG who has expressed his sincere sympathies for the unfair portrayal of your city in the media and the damage done by looters many, many times. So clearly you're not going to treat them fairly, even though their involvement has been minimal and indirect.

I stand by everything I've said throughout this thread, and I'll apologize when I say something I regret or that turns out to be not accurate. That's happened once, many months ago, when I took a tone I later regretted. I owned it repeatedly and I still do. Apparently you don't care, though. Seems like you just need to find someone to be the target of your (understandable) anger regardless of whether they've actually said or think what you think they said or think. It's odd that you don't see the irony there, but I'm sure others do.