Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)

[PinkydaPimp]

I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make with that statement. But, I'm glad that you can at least admit that many in St. Louis would agree that there is a problem with race relations in the metro area.

Are we talking about same story?

There is peace and harmony amongst all blacks and whites everywhere in the country but St. Louis. Okay guy.

I would say things are,at least were, better between blacks and white here than most places in the country before all of the racists came into town telling people otherwise.

From your perspective they might have been. But maybe not so much from the other side.

 

[timschochet]

St Louis Bob, you're losing me:

1. When has anyone, here or elsewhere, ever said that St Louis and Ferguson are the only areas in this country that have racial issues? You have stated or implied this several times, but I don't recall anyone making that claim.

2. Are you really arguing that racial problems didn't exist in Ferguson until the media and protestors showed up?

3. Eric Holder and the DOJ chose not to prosecute the officer who shot Brown due to lack of evidence. Yet you seem to be angrier at them than anyone else. What should they have done here that would have satisfied you?

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I apologized for my tone in that one post after your incident in the parking lot of the game. That was one post, several months ago. Also, that post did not "justify" those actions so much it made light of the relatively small amount of harm you sustained as compared to what others endure regularly at the hands of law enforcement. And again, I apologized for it- more than I suspect you'll do for fabricating a bunch of complete horse#### about me and what I think and said in a series of posts today and on other occasions.

I'm not even going to get in to your nonsense claim that nobody cares about serious crime, your flawed logic that caring about racism in law enforcement somehow means you can't or don't care about those things, or your assertion that I have to be angry at Holder and DOJ because you think they didn't do enough to ... well I'm not sure what. I guess you think it's DOJ's responsibility to guide national discourse, which seems a little totalitarian to me, but whatever. You seem unable to give the benefit of the doubt- or even fair and accurate treatment of what's been said and not said- to a friendly fellow FBG who has expressed his sincere sympathies for the unfair portrayal of your city in the media and the damage done by looters many, many times. So clearly you're not going to treat them fairly, even though their involvement has been minimal and indirect.

I stand by everything I've said throughout this thread, and I'll apologize when I say something I regret or that turns out to be not accurate. That's happened once, many months ago, when I took a tone I later regretted. I owned it repeatedly and I still do. Apparently you don't care, though. Seems like you just need to find someone to be the target of your (understandable) anger regardless of whether they've actually said or think what you think they said or think. It's odd that you don't see the irony there, but I'm sure others do.

I'm sorry too and you may be right about me directing anger at you unjustly. A terrible situation was made worse and things won't get better for the millions of people that live here.

My anger at Holder comes from him stating he was going to get justice for Brown. He did the opposite of trying to calm the situation.

I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make with that statement. But, I'm glad that you can at least admit that many in St. Louis would agree that there is a problem with race relations in the metro area.

Are we talking about same story?

There is peace and harmony amongst all blacks and whites everywhere in the country but St. Louis. Okay guy.

I would say things are,at least were, better between blacks and white here than most places in the country before all of the racists came into town telling people otherwise.

From your perspective they might have been. But maybe not so much from the other side.

I can only speak from my personal relationships, of which I have a lot, and daily interactions with locals that are still, for the most part, very friendly. There are plenty of scumbags of all colors of course that distort the big picture.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

St Louis Bob, you're losing me:

1. When has anyone, here or elsewhere, ever said that St Louis and Ferguson are the only areas in this country that have racial issues? You have stated or implied this several times, but I don't recall anyone making that claim.

2. Are you really arguing that racial problems didn't exist in Ferguson until the media and protestors showed up?

3. Eric Holder and the DOJ chose not to prosecute the officer who shot Brown due to lack of evidence. Yet you seem to be angrier at them than anyone else. What should they have done here that would have satisfied you?

1. McIntyre's post was as if I admitted there were racial problems in Ferguson,and soley in Ferguson. There are racial problems everywhere in this country.

2. See post one.

3. Again, Holder was promising justice for Brown, in a way before the actualy investigation, that suggested he was guilty, making a bad situation worse.

 

[mcintyre1]

I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make with that statement. But, I'm glad that you can at least admit that many in St. Louis would agree that there is a problem with race relations in the metro area.

Are we talking about same story?

There is peace and harmony amongst all blacks and whites everywhere in the country but St. Louis. Okay guy.

I would say things are,at least were, better between blacks and white here than most places in the country before all of the racists came into town telling people otherwise.

I'm so confused by how you're acting in here. I clearly never made that claim. You, however, claimed that any assertion that there was a "white vs. black" issue in St. Louis "couldn't be further from the truth" (though you've since admitted that that is simply your opinion and that a lot of people in the area would disagree with you, so I don't really have a big issue there). I was simply pointing out that your opinion of race relations in St. Louis was at odds with what I've heard from other people from St. Louis.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I'm sorry for anything I posted perceived as hateful towards anybody here. Living this is very different than reading about it. It actually would have been better if this were a racist cop that just decided to murder a black guy. Then the press and plenty of people would be still be here donating time and money to make things better. Instead it's "my bad" and we all get to live in the ruins.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make with that statement. But, I'm glad that you can at least admit that many in St. Louis would agree that there is a problem with race relations in the metro area.

Are we talking about same story?

There is peace and harmony amongst all blacks and whites everywhere in the country but St. Louis. Okay guy.

I would say things are,at least were, better between blacks and white here than most places in the country before all of the racists came into town telling people otherwise.

. I was simply pointing out that your opinion of race relations in St. Louis was at odds with what I've heard from other people from St. Louis.

Your statement was like saying "there are problems in the ME, I'm glad you can admit that". Well no ####### ####.

I'm guessing part of the reason is I grew up in a different socioeconomic (lower) class than those you've talked to. I know a lot of people here though, a whole lot of people of all colors in all classes, and almost all would agree with my take.

 

[mcintyre1]

I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make with that statement. But, I'm glad that you can at least admit that many in St. Louis would agree that there is a problem with race relations in the metro area.

Are we talking about same story?

There is peace and harmony amongst all blacks and whites everywhere in the country but St. Louis. Okay guy.

I would say things are,at least were, better between blacks and white here than most places in the country before all of the racists came into town telling people otherwise.

. I was simply pointing out that your opinion of race relations in St. Louis was at odds with what I've heard from other people from St. Louis.

I'm guessing part of the reason is I grew up in a different socioeconomic (lower) class than those you've talked to. I know a lot of people here though, a whole lot of people of all colors in all classes, and almost all would agree with my take.

The buddy I referenced grew up the son of a construction worker and stay at home mom in a southern suburb, went to college on scholarships and loans, and is paying his own way through law school at Missou. I don't know, man. Just pointing out that, just because things were good for you and yours, doesn't mean everyone in the area feels the same.

Seems pretty naive to me to attribute all of the problems brought up by Ferguson to outside actors rather than acknowledge that, much like most of America, race relations aren't as "hunky dory" as people allowed themselves to think.

 

[Clifford]

More on the UVA situation...and possibly an example of the role I think the media can sometimes play in these situations.

"Student leaders at the University of Virginia are hosting a public discussion on campus racial relations Friday after a black student was violently arrested by a group of white police officers this week."

"ABC representatives, University police and Albemarle County law enforcement are slated to take part in the discussion Friday, which student leaders hope will address long simmering racial tensions on campus."

Had no idea that this situation had anything at all to do with "campus racial relations." The incident wasn't on campus, and didn't involve only people of the campus. Also, it says the the student was violently arrested by a group of white officers - while we still don't know that a single one of them were violent towards him, much less the entire group of them. And now there is "long simmering racial tensions on campus"?! Since when? Maybe I'm just blissfully unaware, but I have family members there now, other family members that have lived in C-ville for decades, and I regularly visit the school and attend games on campus but had no idea that any of that was present. The only thing that may have lead to that was the Hannah Graham situation - white female student who was kidnapped/raped/killed by the non-student black man - another situation likely fueled by the media into a "racial situation" that wasn't there to begin with.

For those saying that it would have never happened to a white guy (and this is funny) -

You don't believe racial tensions exist at UVA? Is this willful or accidental ignorance? And what part of pinkys response is hard to understand?

 

[mcintyre1]

I'm sorry if this feels like we're piling on St. Louis in particular, Bob, because I don't want that to be the takeaway. There are similar issues in Minneapolis, for example. Police treat black citizens much worse than whites, from my experience. If I'm driving through Uptown (a mostly young, white, upper class neighborhood) and see a cop with someone pulled over, I'd say there's a greater than 75% chance that the driver will be black.

For a more close to home example, last year a young black man was chased by police into a house basement where he was killed by SWAT team members despite being unarmed. That house shared my address #, but is one street over. They claim he attacked a police dog and reached for one of the SMGs on their backs and tried to go Rambo. A bystander outside the house recorded a video of two of the police officers who appear to be saying "Watch out for the n*****" and "damn ####### n*****s" shortly after the shooting. Later, a police officer was "responding" to the scene an hour after the man was dead, ran a red light and killed a motorcyclist. The man's autopsy has yet to be revealed, as far as I know, but the suspect's father indicated that he had seen his son's body and that he was shot "4-5 times in the back of the head". As far as I know, none of the officers involved have been disciplined in any way and there is no ongoing investigation.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I have no idea what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make with that statement. But, I'm glad that you can at least admit that many in St. Louis would agree that there is a problem with race relations in the metro area.

Are we talking about same story?

There is peace and harmony amongst all blacks and whites everywhere in the country but St. Louis. Okay guy.

I would say things are,at least were, better between blacks and white here than most places in the country before all of the racists came into town telling people otherwise.

. I was simply pointing out that your opinion of race relations in St. Louis was at odds with what I've heard from other people from St. Louis.

I'm guessing part of the reason is I grew up in a different socioeconomic (lower) class than those you've talked to. I know a lot of people here though, a whole lot of people of all colors in all classes, and almost all would agree with my take.

The buddy I referenced grew up the son of a construction worker and stay at home mom in a southern suburb, went to college on scholarships and loans, and is paying his own way through law school at Missou. I don't know, man. Just pointing out that, just because things were good for you and yours, doesn't mean everyone in the area feels the same.

Seems pretty naive to me to attribute all of the problems brought up by Ferguson to outside actors rather than acknowledge that, much like most of America, race relations aren't as "hunky dory" as people allowed themselves to think.

South side, well there's your problem.

There were PLENTY of people outside of Ferguson that incited rioting. I'm not sure what the maxium amount of people this needs to be before I'm not naive any longer. A big part of the problem isn't blacks that hate whites, it's blacks that hate cops. One of the reasons there is so much crime in STL is because of this code.

You aren't going to turn me into a hater though and you surely aren't going to make me and my many friends hate people that don't have the same pigment as them because things aren't "hunky dory".

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I'm sorry if this feels like we're piling on St. Louis in particular, Bob, because I don't want that to be the takeaway. There are similar issues in Minneapolis, for example. Police treat black citizens much worse than whites, from my experience. If I'm driving through Uptown (a mostly young, white, upper class neighborhood) and see a cop with someone pulled over, I'd say there's a greater than 75% chance that the driver will be black.

For a more close to home example, last year a young black man was chased by police into a house basement where he was killed by SWAT team members despite being unarmed. That house shared my address #, but is one street over. They claim he attacked a police dog and reached for one of the SMGs on their backs and tried to go Rambo. A bystander outside the house recorded a video of two of the police officers who appear to be saying "Watch out for the n*****" and "damn ####### n*****s" shortly after the shooting. Later, a police officer was "responding" to the scene an hour after the man was dead, ran a red light and killed a motorcyclist. The man's autopsy has yet to be revealed, as far as I know, but the suspect's father indicated that he had seen his son's body and that he was shot "4-5 times in the back of the head". As far as I know, none of the officers involved have been disciplined in any way and there is no ongoing investigation.

Thanks and it just isn't like this around here. You would have heard about it by now if it was. You know there were hundreds of journalists looking through piles of paperwork hoping to show a history of racism. As I said before too, there isn't a whole lot of "white" neighborhoods either.

Now there are WAY to many tickets handed out to people of all colors because of the ####ed up way this area is made up and really it's the root of the problem. There are all black police forces that do nothing but hand out speeding tickets around here too. I hope that one day soon we can get rid of all of these cities like Ferguson and we can make some real progress. Until then, nothing will change. Of course this is a problem around the country using cops to collect taxes to fund government too.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

I'm sorry if this feels like we're piling on St. Louis in particular, Bob, because I don't want that to be the takeaway. There are similar issues in Minneapolis, for example. Police treat black citizens much worse than whites, from my experience. If I'm driving through Uptown (a mostly young, white, upper class neighborhood) and see a cop with someone pulled over, I'd say there's a greater than 75% chance that the driver will be black.

For a more close to home example, last year a young black man was chased by police into a house basement where he was killed by SWAT team members despite being unarmed. That house shared my address #, but is one street over. They claim he attacked a police dog and reached for one of the SMGs on their backs and tried to go Rambo. A bystander outside the house recorded a video of two of the police officers who appear to be saying "Watch out for the n*****" and "damn ####### n*****s" shortly after the shooting. Later, a police officer was "responding" to the scene an hour after the man was dead, ran a red light and killed a motorcyclist. The man's autopsy has yet to be revealed, as far as I know, but the suspect's father indicated that he had seen his son's body and that he was shot "4-5 times in the back of the head". As far as I know, none of the officers involved have been disciplined in any way and there is no ongoing investigation.

Thanks and it just isn't like this around here. You would have heard about it by now if it was. You know there were hundreds of journalists looking through piles of paperwork hoping to show a history of racism. As I said before too, there isn't a whole lot of "white" neighborhoods either.

Now there are WAY to many tickets handed out to people of all colors because of the ####ed up way this area is made up and really it's the root of the problem. There are all black police forces that do nothing but hand out speeding tickets around here too. I hope that one day soon we can get rid of all of these cities like Ferguson and we can make some real progress. Until then, nothing will change. Of course this is a problem around the country using cops to collect taxes to fund government too.

Im curious bob. So do you feel that in St. Louis there are no racial issues at all? Everyone is equal and treated fairly and all racial issues are in the past?

I feel like you are equating racial issues as being one group hating another. I think in reality most of the issues that are likely there (and in most places) are more covert and subconscious. Entrenched in institutions and their processes. If that is the case, it would be very easy for people like yourself to feel like there are no issues, when in reality their are. Are you that sure that all the racial issues are in the past? Because assuming their aren't any problems when there are, only delays us in fixing the issue.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I'm sorry if this feels like we're piling on St. Louis in particular, Bob, because I don't want that to be the takeaway. There are similar issues in Minneapolis, for example. Police treat black citizens much worse than whites, from my experience. If I'm driving through Uptown (a mostly young, white, upper class neighborhood) and see a cop with someone pulled over, I'd say there's a greater than 75% chance that the driver will be black.

For a more close to home example, last year a young black man was chased by police into a house basement where he was killed by SWAT team members despite being unarmed. That house shared my address #, but is one street over. They claim he attacked a police dog and reached for one of the SMGs on their backs and tried to go Rambo. A bystander outside the house recorded a video of two of the police officers who appear to be saying "Watch out for the n*****" and "damn ####### n*****s" shortly after the shooting. Later, a police officer was "responding" to the scene an hour after the man was dead, ran a red light and killed a motorcyclist. The man's autopsy has yet to be revealed, as far as I know, but the suspect's father indicated that he had seen his son's body and that he was shot "4-5 times in the back of the head". As far as I know, none of the officers involved have been disciplined in any way and there is no ongoing investigation.

Thanks and it just isn't like this around here. You would have heard about it by now if it was. You know there were hundreds of journalists looking through piles of paperwork hoping to show a history of racism. As I said before too, there isn't a whole lot of "white" neighborhoods either.

Now there are WAY to many tickets handed out to people of all colors because of the ####ed up way this area is made up and really it's the root of the problem. There are all black police forces that do nothing but hand out speeding tickets around here too. I hope that one day soon we can get rid of all of these cities like Ferguson and we can make some real progress. Until then, nothing will change. Of course this is a problem around the country using cops to collect taxes to fund government too.

Im curious bob. So do you feel that in St. Louis there are no racial issues at all? Everyone is equal and treated fairly and all racial issues are in the past? I feel like you are equating racial issues as being one group hating another. I think in reality most of the issues that are likely there (and in most places) are more covert and subconscious. Entrenched in institutions and their processes. If that is the case, it would be very easy for people like yourself to feel like there are no issues, when in reality their are. Are you that sure that all the racial issues are in the past? Because assuming their aren't any problems when there are, only delays us in fixing the issue.

Again, THERE ARE RACIAL ISSUES EVERYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. HOWEVER, I think that amongst most citizens, things are, or at least were, pretty good. In this thread all I've cared really about discussing was this one particular issue that has destroyed my town because of a lie. There is also no history of cops just killing blacks in St. Louis for the hell of it which is the story we got. There's a reason you don't see me arguing about politics or religion.

I'll go away. There's really nothing else left to say and all of us here in St. Louis get to do is live in the aftermath and all of the consequences of it while nobody gets held accountable for what happened. NOBODY.

ETA

Some looters were arrested, all the people inciting riots got off Scott free.

 

[Todd Andrews]

I'm sorry if this feels like we're piling on St. Louis in particular, Bob, because I don't want that to be the takeaway. There are similar issues in Minneapolis, for example. Police treat black citizens much worse than whites, from my experience. If I'm driving through Uptown (a mostly young, white, upper class neighborhood) and see a cop with someone pulled over, I'd say there's a greater than 75% chance that the driver will be black.

For a more close to home example, last year a young black man was chased by police into a house basement where he was killed by SWAT team members despite being unarmed. That house shared my address #, but is one street over. They claim he attacked a police dog and reached for one of the SMGs on their backs and tried to go Rambo. A bystander outside the house recorded a video of two of the police officers who appear to be saying "Watch out for the n*****" and "damn ####### n*****s" shortly after the shooting. Later, a police officer was "responding" to the scene an hour after the man was dead, ran a red light and killed a motorcyclist. The man's autopsy has yet to be revealed, as far as I know, but the suspect's father indicated that he had seen his son's body and that he was shot "4-5 times in the back of the head". As far as I know, none of the officers involved have been disciplined in any way and there is no ongoing investigation.

Thanks and it just isn't like this around here. You would have heard about it by now if it was. You know there were hundreds of journalists looking through piles of paperwork hoping to show a history of racism. As I said before too, there isn't a whole lot of "white" neighborhoods either.

Now there are WAY to many tickets handed out to people of all colors because of the ####ed up way this area is made up and really it's the root of the problem. There are all black police forces that do nothing but hand out speeding tickets around here too. I hope that one day soon we can get rid of all of these cities like Ferguson and we can make some real progress. Until then, nothing will change. Of course this is a problem around the country using cops to collect taxes to fund government too.

Im curious bob. So do you feel that in St. Louis there are no racial issues at all? Everyone is equal and treated fairly and all racial issues are in the past? I feel like you are equating racial issues as being one group hating another. I think in reality most of the issues that are likely there (and in most places) are more covert and subconscious. Entrenched in institutions and their processes. If that is the case, it would be very easy for people like yourself to feel like there are no issues, when in reality their are. Are you that sure that all the racial issues are in the past? Because assuming their aren't any problems when there are, only delays us in fixing the issue.

Again, THERE ARE RACIAL ISSUES EVERYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. HOWEVER, I think that amongst most citizens, things are, or at least were, pretty good. In this thread all I've cared really about discussing was this one particular issue that has destroyed my town because of a lie. There is also no history of cops just killing blacks in St. Louis for the hell of it which is the story we got. There's a reason you don't see me arguing about politics or religion.

I'll go away. There's really nothing else left to say and all of us here in St. Louis get to do is live in the aftermath and all of the consequences of it while nobody gets held accountable for what happened. NOBODY.

ETA

Some looters were arrested, all the people inciting riots got off Scott free.

Um, even though all American cities have serious police shootings and police shootings oversight issues, St Louis actually has more than most (if not arguably all):

An analysis of police data shows that in the five years ending in 2010, St. Louis officers fired up to three times more often, per reported violent crime, than those protecting other, similar-sized populations. The rate was 1.6 times higher than that of St. Louis County officers.

There is no national database of shots fired by police, but the Las Vegas Review-Journal recently compiled data from 16 departments in the most populated cities. St. Louis, not on the list, easily topped all of them in shots fired per violent crime. Officers here fired 1.85 times more than in the city ranked highest in that study, Denver. On a straight per capita basis, St. Louis officers fired up to eight times more often than others.

 

[whiskey7]

Here's A News Report We'd Be Reading If Walter Scott's Killing Wasn't On Video

The forensic evidence would blow a report like that out of the water, though. Victim in this case had multiple gsw to the back and the evidence would indicate he was running away.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I'm sorry if this feels like we're piling on St. Louis in particular, Bob, because I don't want that to be the takeaway. There are similar issues in Minneapolis, for example. Police treat black citizens much worse than whites, from my experience. If I'm driving through Uptown (a mostly young, white, upper class neighborhood) and see a cop with someone pulled over, I'd say there's a greater than 75% chance that the driver will be black.

For a more close to home example, last year a young black man was chased by police into a house basement where he was killed by SWAT team members despite being unarmed. That house shared my address #, but is one street over. They claim he attacked a police dog and reached for one of the SMGs on their backs and tried to go Rambo. A bystander outside the house recorded a video of two of the police officers who appear to be saying "Watch out for the n*****" and "damn ####### n*****s" shortly after the shooting. Later, a police officer was "responding" to the scene an hour after the man was dead, ran a red light and killed a motorcyclist. The man's autopsy has yet to be revealed, as far as I know, but the suspect's father indicated that he had seen his son's body and that he was shot "4-5 times in the back of the head". As far as I know, none of the officers involved have been disciplined in any way and there is no ongoing investigation.

Thanks and it just isn't like this around here. You would have heard about it by now if it was. You know there were hundreds of journalists looking through piles of paperwork hoping to show a history of racism. As I said before too, there isn't a whole lot of "white" neighborhoods either.

Now there are WAY to many tickets handed out to people of all colors because of the ####ed up way this area is made up and really it's the root of the problem. There are all black police forces that do nothing but hand out speeding tickets around here too. I hope that one day soon we can get rid of all of these cities like Ferguson and we can make some real progress. Until then, nothing will change. Of course this is a problem around the country using cops to collect taxes to fund government too.

Im curious bob. So do you feel that in St. Louis there are no racial issues at all? Everyone is equal and treated fairly and all racial issues are in the past? I feel like you are equating racial issues as being one group hating another. I think in reality most of the issues that are likely there (and in most places) are more covert and subconscious. Entrenched in institutions and their processes. If that is the case, it would be very easy for people like yourself to feel like there are no issues, when in reality their are. Are you that sure that all the racial issues are in the past? Because assuming their aren't any problems when there are, only delays us in fixing the issue.

Again, THERE ARE RACIAL ISSUES EVERYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. HOWEVER, I think that amongst most citizens, things are, or at least were, pretty good. In this thread all I've cared really about discussing was this one particular issue that has destroyed my town because of a lie. There is also no history of cops just killing blacks in St. Louis for the hell of it which is the story we got. There's a reason you don't see me arguing about politics or religion.

I'll go away. There's really nothing else left to say and all of us here in St. Louis get to do is live in the aftermath and all of the consequences of it while nobody gets held accountable for what happened. NOBODY.

ETA

Some looters were arrested, all the people inciting riots got off Scott free.

Um, even though all American cities have serious police shootings and police shootings oversight issues, St Louis actually has more than most (if not arguably all):

An analysis of police data shows that in the five years ending in 2010, St. Louis officers fired up to three times more often, per reported violent crime, than those protecting other, similar-sized populations. The rate was 1.6 times higher than that of St. Louis County officers.

There is no national database of shots fired by police, but the Las Vegas Review-Journal recently compiled data from 16 departments in the most populated cities. St. Louis, not on the list, easily topped all of them in shots fired per violent crime. Officers here fired 1.85 times more than in the city ranked highest in that study, Denver. On a straight per capita basis, St. Louis officers fired up to eight times more often than others.

St. Louis also has TRIPLE the amount of violent crime than Denver. How many times were Denver cops fired at compared to St. Louis cops? None of this proves that STL cops like to gun down blacks. I'm done here.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

I'm sorry if this feels like we're piling on St. Louis in particular, Bob, because I don't want that to be the takeaway. There are similar issues in Minneapolis, for example. Police treat black citizens much worse than whites, from my experience. If I'm driving through Uptown (a mostly young, white, upper class neighborhood) and see a cop with someone pulled over, I'd say there's a greater than 75% chance that the driver will be black.

For a more close to home example, last year a young black man was chased by police into a house basement where he was killed by SWAT team members despite being unarmed. That house shared my address #, but is one street over. They claim he attacked a police dog and reached for one of the SMGs on their backs and tried to go Rambo. A bystander outside the house recorded a video of two of the police officers who appear to be saying "Watch out for the n*****" and "damn ####### n*****s" shortly after the shooting. Later, a police officer was "responding" to the scene an hour after the man was dead, ran a red light and killed a motorcyclist. The man's autopsy has yet to be revealed, as far as I know, but the suspect's father indicated that he had seen his son's body and that he was shot "4-5 times in the back of the head". As far as I know, none of the officers involved have been disciplined in any way and there is no ongoing investigation.

Thanks and it just isn't like this around here. You would have heard about it by now if it was. You know there were hundreds of journalists looking through piles of paperwork hoping to show a history of racism. As I said before too, there isn't a whole lot of "white" neighborhoods either.

Now there are WAY to many tickets handed out to people of all colors because of the ####ed up way this area is made up and really it's the root of the problem. There are all black police forces that do nothing but hand out speeding tickets around here too. I hope that one day soon we can get rid of all of these cities like Ferguson and we can make some real progress. Until then, nothing will change. Of course this is a problem around the country using cops to collect taxes to fund government too.

Im curious bob. So do you feel that in St. Louis there are no racial issues at all? Everyone is equal and treated fairly and all racial issues are in the past? I feel like you are equating racial issues as being one group hating another. I think in reality most of the issues that are likely there (and in most places) are more covert and subconscious. Entrenched in institutions and their processes. If that is the case, it would be very easy for people like yourself to feel like there are no issues, when in reality their are. Are you that sure that all the racial issues are in the past? Because assuming their aren't any problems when there are, only delays us in fixing the issue.

Again, THERE ARE RACIAL ISSUES EVERYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. HOWEVER, I think that amongst most citizens, things are, or at least were, pretty good. In this thread all I've cared really about discussing was this one particular issue that has destroyed my town because of a lie. There is also no history of cops just killing blacks in St. Louis for the hell of it which is the story we got. There's a reason you don't see me arguing about politics or religion.

I'll go away. There's really nothing else left to say and all of us here in St. Louis get to do is live in the aftermath and all of the consequences of it while nobody gets held accountable for what happened. NOBODY.

ETA

Some looters were arrested, all the people inciting riots got off Scott free.

Um, even though all American cities have serious police shootings and police shootings oversight issues, St Louis actually has more than most (if not arguably all):

An analysis of police data shows that in the five years ending in 2010, St. Louis officers fired up to three times more often, per reported violent crime, than those protecting other, similar-sized populations. The rate was 1.6 times higher than that of St. Louis County officers.

There is no national database of shots fired by police, but the Las Vegas Review-Journal recently compiled data from 16 departments in the most populated cities. St. Louis, not on the list, easily topped all of them in shots fired per violent crime. Officers here fired 1.85 times more than in the city ranked highest in that study, Denver. On a straight per capita basis, St. Louis officers fired up to eight times more often than others.

St. Louis also has TRIPLE the amount of violent crime than Denver. How many times were Denver cops fired at compared to St. Louis cops? None of this proves that STL cops like to gun down blacks. I'm done here.

You seem so intent on insisting everything is fine that you won't even entertain the chance that there might be an issue that should be looked into. That in itself is part of the problem. Damn shame.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Here's A News Report We'd Be Reading If Walter Scott's Killing Wasn't On Video

 

[matttyl]

More on the UVA situation...and possibly an example of the role I think the media can sometimes play in these situations.

"Student leaders at the University of Virginia are hosting a public discussion on campus racial relations Friday after a black student was violently arrested by a group of white police officers this week."

"ABC representatives, University police and Albemarle County law enforcement are slated to take part in the discussion Friday, which student leaders hope will address long simmering racial tensions on campus."

Had no idea that this situation had anything at all to do with "campus racial relations." The incident wasn't on campus, and didn't involve only people of the campus. Also, it says the the student was violently arrested by a group of white officers - while we still don't know that a single one of them were violent towards him, much less the entire group of them. And now there is "long simmering racial tensions on campus"?! Since when? Maybe I'm just blissfully unaware, but I have family members there now, other family members that have lived in C-ville for decades, and I regularly visit the school and attend games on campus but had no idea that any of that was present. The only thing that may have lead to that was the Hannah Graham situation - white female student who was kidnapped/raped/killed by the non-student black man - another situation likely fueled by the media into a "racial situation" that wasn't there to begin with.

For those saying that it would have never happened to a white guy (and this is funny) -

Neither. I believe they do now, obviously, thanks in large part to the media. I don't believe there were "long standing racial tensions" prior to this event, aside from possibly the Jessie Matthews situation (which wasn't really a "campus issue" any more than this recent ABC situation is/was). I'm sure there were small situations of racial tension (as there would be on any college campus), but not campus wide by any means and not long-standing, either. The student council president (at the time of both of those situations) is black (and was elected to the office by the student body). Racial minorities also head the Student life committee, Academic affairs committee, Legislative affairs committee, Public service committee, Safety and Wellness committee, and others - as well as on the board of the student newspaper, the Cavalier Daily. It's actually an extremely diverse student body, and I feel that it's unjustifiably received a horrible wrap in the media lately - mainly due to three situations - Jessie Matthews, which wasn't a campus issue at all; the ABC incident which also wasn't a campus issue at all; and the Rolling Stones article which turned out to be false.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I'm sorry if this feels like we're piling on St. Louis in particular, Bob, because I don't want that to be the takeaway. There are similar issues in Minneapolis, for example. Police treat black citizens much worse than whites, from my experience. If I'm driving through Uptown (a mostly young, white, upper class neighborhood) and see a cop with someone pulled over, I'd say there's a greater than 75% chance that the driver will be black.

For a more close to home example, last year a young black man was chased by police into a house basement where he was killed by SWAT team members despite being unarmed. That house shared my address #, but is one street over. They claim he attacked a police dog and reached for one of the SMGs on their backs and tried to go Rambo. A bystander outside the house recorded a video of two of the police officers who appear to be saying "Watch out for the n*****" and "damn ####### n*****s" shortly after the shooting. Later, a police officer was "responding" to the scene an hour after the man was dead, ran a red light and killed a motorcyclist. The man's autopsy has yet to be revealed, as far as I know, but the suspect's father indicated that he had seen his son's body and that he was shot "4-5 times in the back of the head". As far as I know, none of the officers involved have been disciplined in any way and there is no ongoing investigation.

Thanks and it just isn't like this around here. You would have heard about it by now if it was. You know there were hundreds of journalists looking through piles of paperwork hoping to show a history of racism. As I said before too, there isn't a whole lot of "white" neighborhoods either.

Now there are WAY to many tickets handed out to people of all colors because of the ####ed up way this area is made up and really it's the root of the problem. There are all black police forces that do nothing but hand out speeding tickets around here too. I hope that one day soon we can get rid of all of these cities like Ferguson and we can make some real progress. Until then, nothing will change. Of course this is a problem around the country using cops to collect taxes to fund government too.

Im curious bob. So do you feel that in St. Louis there are no racial issues at all? Everyone is equal and treated fairly and all racial issues are in the past? I feel like you are equating racial issues as being one group hating another. I think in reality most of the issues that are likely there (and in most places) are more covert and subconscious. Entrenched in institutions and their processes. If that is the case, it would be very easy for people like yourself to feel like there are no issues, when in reality their are. Are you that sure that all the racial issues are in the past? Because assuming their aren't any problems when there are, only delays us in fixing the issue.

Again, THERE ARE RACIAL ISSUES EVERYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. HOWEVER, I think that amongst most citizens, things are, or at least were, pretty good. In this thread all I've cared really about discussing was this one particular issue that has destroyed my town because of a lie. There is also no history of cops just killing blacks in St. Louis for the hell of it which is the story we got. There's a reason you don't see me arguing about politics or religion.

I'll go away. There's really nothing else left to say and all of us here in St. Louis get to do is live in the aftermath and all of the consequences of it while nobody gets held accountable for what happened. NOBODY.

ETA

Some looters were arrested, all the people inciting riots got off Scott free.

Um, even though all American cities have serious police shootings and police shootings oversight issues, St Louis actually has more than most (if not arguably all):

An analysis of police data shows that in the five years ending in 2010, St. Louis officers fired up to three times more often, per reported violent crime, than those protecting other, similar-sized populations. The rate was 1.6 times higher than that of St. Louis County officers.

There is no national database of shots fired by police, but the Las Vegas Review-Journal recently compiled data from 16 departments in the most populated cities. St. Louis, not on the list, easily topped all of them in shots fired per violent crime. Officers here fired 1.85 times more than in the city ranked highest in that study, Denver. On a straight per capita basis, St. Louis officers fired up to eight times more often than others.

St. Louis also has TRIPLE the amount of violent crime than Denver. How many times were Denver cops fired at compared to St. Louis cops? None of this proves that STL cops like to gun down blacks.I'm done here.

You seem so intent on insisting everything is fine that you won't even entertain the chance that there might be an issue that should be looked into. That in itself is part of the problem. Damn shame.

JFC, what part of THERE ARE RACIAL PROBLEMS EVERYWHERE that is so hard for you to understand. WTF did I say everything is perfect? His post has no context. You seem so intent on insisting everybody hates each other based on the color of their skin. Now THAT's sad. ####, take a look in the mirror man.

See there are problems THAT I'VE POSTED ABOUT AT LEAST TEN TIMES with courts & cops being used to harass residents. Not just black residents mind you, anybody that happens to be going through their ####ty city. HAVE YOU READ MY POSTS ABOUT THIS?

Here's the lastest example in Velda Park.

What's funny is they don't bother to mention the sitting judge's name, Wesley Bell, a black guy, that is accused of this. (Their police force is all black too because I know that race is the most important thing to so many of you here.) It's really important because Ferguson using the courts as a debtor's prison, which is a very valid complaint, has been something we've heard over and over leading to the resignation of the Judge Brockmeyer and the Mayor. So they what happened Tuesday, they elect Bell to the Ferguson City Council.

Again, I'm ####### done here, think of me and my city any way you like. I know in my heart that the vast majority of us are good people regardless of skin color.

 

[igbomb]

All right, I'm sorry I said one. I was going on memory and I know there was one main witness who testified to this effect in the grand jury and was contradicted by other witnesses. I remain skeptical that the police officer was truly threatened when he shot Brown, and I wondered if this current story would give anybody else pause about that. Not change your mind but at least make you reconsider what happened. I guess the answer is no.

As for you St Louis Bob, your attitude towards this entire discussion seems largely influenced by the protestors. Based on what you've described I can understand your outrage at them. But it's only a small part of a bigger picture and shouldn't affect the question of guilt or innocence of the police.

The fact that a town (a mostly black town OMG!!) that was undergoing a tremendous revitalization, that is now torn to shreds, it will forever be known as ghetto ( check out my posts at the beginning of this thread) and the people that live there, the mostly good people, are ####ed. THAT'S ANOTHER OF MY ####### PROBLEMS. St. Louis has been portrayed as some sort of white vs. black area and it couldn't be further from the truth. I've always been proud of my town, where and how I was raised. How the vast majority of people love each other despite color. Yet a lot of people, like the press, the Feds, many people here in this thread, seem to know otherwise. It ####### breaks my heart.

Ever considered that, just maybe, some people in St. Louis would disagree with you on that?

EDIT: To be less cryptic, one of my best friends is a white guy who grew up in St. Louis. He would disagree with you. I remember he "warned" me (in that joking but kind of not way) when I was visiting not to take the wrong exit and cross the river to East St. Louis, because I'd probably get shot. Of course, that's hyperbole, but that sentiment doesn't exist if there isn't an undercurrent of "us vs. them" in the local culture.

Warning about going into East St. Louis isn't fostering an us vs. them subculture. That place is scary. I lived in St. Louis for six months several years back and that is legitimately a bad place to be at night. There are other parts of the metro area that are also predominantly black where that warning isn't made. Same goes for Detroit. There are parts that you simply advise people not to go. Not because it's full of 'those kind of people'. But because people get hurt or robbed for going there.

 

[timschochet]

I just watched on TV a black leader from Ferguson (Wesley something; he just won an election) and everything he said was the exact opposite of what St Louis Bob has been asserting here. He said that while some tensions remain, there is a "new spirit" in the community and that everyone is working together in a way they never did before. He stated that the rebuilding which was already underway would have a positive effect and that there was a "new normal" of respect towards all.

 

[Henry Ford]

I didn't know where to put this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/missouri-town-elects-black-mayor-5-6-cops-resign-report-article-1.2190915

The first black mayor of Parma, Missouri was elected this week. Five of the six police officers in this town immediately quit without notice, as did the city attorney, city clerk, and water treatment supervisor.

 

[lod01]

I didn't know where to put this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/missouri-town-elects-black-mayor-5-6-cops-resign-report-article-1.2190915

The first black mayor of Parma, Missouri was elected this week. Five of the six police officers in this town immediately quit without notice, as did the city attorney, city clerk, and water treatment supervisor.

Jackpot for 6th officer. 'I'll quit if you guys quit'. 'Wait a minute'. Instant Chief Of Police.

 

[jon_mx]

Hands up don't shoot was the biggest display of buffoonery I have ever seen done by the media and politicians.

 

[urbanhack]

I didn't know where to put this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/missouri-town-elects-black-mayor-5-6-cops-resign-report-article-1.2190915

The first black mayor of Parma, Missouri was elected this week. Five of the six police officers in this town immediately quit without notice, as did the city attorney, city clerk, and water treatment supervisor.

Coincidence.

 

[Clifford]

More on the UVA situation...and possibly an example of the role I think the media can sometimes play in these situations.

"Student leaders at the University of Virginia are hosting a public discussion on campus racial relations Friday after a black student was violently arrested by a group of white police officers this week."

"ABC representatives, University police and Albemarle County law enforcement are slated to take part in the discussion Friday, which student leaders hope will address long simmering racial tensions on campus."

Had no idea that this situation had anything at all to do with "campus racial relations." The incident wasn't on campus, and didn't involve only people of the campus. Also, it says the the student was violently arrested by a group of white officers - while we still don't know that a single one of them were violent towards him, much less the entire group of them. And now there is "long simmering racial tensions on campus"?! Since when? Maybe I'm just blissfully unaware, but I have family members there now, other family members that have lived in C-ville for decades, and I regularly visit the school and attend games on campus but had no idea that any of that was present. The only thing that may have lead to that was the Hannah Graham situation - white female student who was kidnapped/raped/killed by the non-student black man - another situation likely fueled by the media into a "racial situation" that wasn't there to begin with.

For those saying that it would have never happened to a white guy (and this is funny) -

My sister went to school there. There were constant gripes from one race to the other, both ways. Lots of tension, none of which ever prevented anyone from becoming student body president. Curious as to why the two subjects would be related. It is a diverse campus. Thus, racial tensions.

 

[Clifford]

Hands up don't shoot was the biggest display of buffoonery I have ever seen done by the media and politicians.

Any other #### you couldn't possibly understand you wanna talk about? Oh, you said media and politicians, which are always fair game. I guess when the St Louis Rams players did it it was ok, but not when the media and politicians did it? And the I can't breathe shirt was cool when LeBron wore it but not cool when echoed by media and politicians?

Just trying to figure out how big of a rebel you are.

 

[jon_mx]

Hands up don't shoot was the biggest display of buffoonery I have ever seen done by the media and politicians.

Any other #### you couldn't possibly understand you wanna talk about? Oh, you said media and politicians, which are always fair game. I guess when the St Louis Rams players did it it was ok, but not when the media and politicians did it? And the I can't breathe shirt was cool when LeBron wore it but not cool when echoed by media and politicians?

Just trying to figure out how big of a rebel you are.

The Rams players were d-bags too. It was total crap from day 1.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

Hands up don't shoot was the biggest display of buffoonery I have ever seen done by the media and politicians.

Any other #### you couldn't possibly understand you wanna talk about? Oh, you said media and politicians, which are always fair game. I guess when the St Louis Rams players did it it was ok, but not when the media and politicians did it? And the I can't breathe shirt was cool when LeBron wore it but not cool when echoed by media and politicians?

Just trying to figure out how big of a rebel you are.

The Rams players were d-bags too. It was total crap from day 1.

The athletes were simply making a thinly veiled attempt to say "Hey everybody, look at me!"

 

[timschochet]

I don't see how any of it's buffoonery. Not the athletes, not the media, nor the politicians or anyone else.

"Hands up don't shoot" likely never happened. But a lot of people including me continue to believe that what did happen was Michael Brown being wrongfully murdered, the Ferguson Police Department covering it up, and the same police department mistreating peaceful protestors. That's the important stuff and that's why people were angry. The detail of "Hands up don't shoot" being wrong is not that important- what's important is that people spoke out.

 

[Courtjester]

I don't see how any of it's buffoonery. Not the athletes, not the media, nor the politicians or anyone else.

"Hands up don't shoot" likely never happened. But a lot of people including me continue to believe that what did happen was Michael Brown being wrongfully murdered, the Ferguson Police Department covering it up, and the same police department mistreating peaceful protestors. That's the important stuff and that's why people were angry. The detail of "Hands up don't shoot" being wrong is not that important- what's important is that people spoke out.

And some people believe the Twin Towers were taken down by missiles, just sayin....

 

[bryhamm]

I don't see how any of it's buffoonery. Not the athletes, not the media, nor the politicians or anyone else.

"Hands up don't shoot" likely never happened. But a lot of people including me continue to believe that what did happen was Michael Brown being wrongfully murdered, the Ferguson Police Department covering it up, and the same police department mistreating peaceful protestors. That's the important stuff and that's why people were angry. The detail of "Hands up don't shoot" being wrong is not that important- what's important is that people spoke out.

Yeah, it really is.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Not surprising news, but sad that the "Hands up, Don't shoot!" false narrative started with this upstanding citizen and continues to get repeated as fact.

Dorian Johnson, figure in Michael Brown case, arrested in St. Louis
ST. LOUIS • Dorian Johnson, the man who was with Michael Brown when Brown was fatally shot by a Ferguson police officer last summer, has been arrested on suspicion of drug charges and resisting arrest, a St. Louis police source said Wednesday.

Police released details of an incident involving three men taken into custody after officers were called to the 5700 block of Acme Avenue at 3:21 p.m. Wednesday by someone “reporting a large group of subjects who were possibly armed with firearms.”


The police report did not name Johnson, but a police source who spoke on the condition of anonymity said that the incident involved Johnson and two of his brothers. Johnson allegedly had a cough medication mixed with what police believe to be an illegal narcotic on him.

The report said that as the officers who went to the scene dispersed the crowd, they noticed that one man had a bulge in his clothes that they suspected might be a weapon. A second man grabbed the arm of the officer who attempted to pat the first man down. The officer then attempted to detain the second man.

That prompted a third man to approach the officer and yell at him in an attempt to stop the arrest, the report said. That man allegedly then discarded narcotics onto the ground.

All three were arrested. One of Johnson’s brothers was found to be wanted in Bridgeton on warrants for armed robbery and armed criminal action, the police source said.

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

Not a surprise

 

[General Tso]

they noticed that one man had a bulge in his clothes that they suspected might be a weapon.

Would it have been racist if they assumed it wasn't a weapon?

 

[Jack White]

they noticed that one man had a bulge in his clothes that they suspected might be a weapon.

Would it have been racist if they assumed it wasn't a weapon?

It's twue, it's twue!

 

[Widbil83]

Yikes here we go again...

http://fox2now.com/2015/08/09/live-updates-police-and-protesters-standoff-in-ferguson/

 

[GrandpaRox]

Gee what a shock.

 

[Widbil83]

Stores looted. The Hair Salon has been looted like 6 times. Wonder if the owner will finally take the hint.

http://www.kmov.com/story/29746241/store-broken-into-near-protest-in-ferguson

 

[jon_mx]

It's the annual Let's Loot, Don't Shoot Day.

 

[proninja]

If your friends, family, and countrymen were getting shot in the street like dogs, I'd hope you'd riot too.

 

[jon_mx]

If your friends, family, and countrymen were getting shot in the street like dogs, I'd hope you'd riot too.

Yes, that is what happening. They are all innocent victims. They just walking down the street (after robbing a store and assaulting a police officer).

 

[jonessed]

If your friends, family, and countrymen were getting shot in the street like dogs, I'd hope you'd riot too.

So predictable.

 

[avoiding injuries]

It's time to retire the blm movement. It's run its course.

@St. Louis County chief says suspect approached officers in unmarked car, opened fire. Officers returned fire, pursued on foot #Ferguson

 

[Rayderr]

“What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!”

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

Just mind-boggling that Michael Brown has become the face of this movement. Strong armed robber who attacked a cop as your poster child. Just asinine.

 

[jon_mx]

Just mind-boggling that Michael Brown has become the face of this movement. Strong armed robber who attacked a cop as your poster child. Just asinine.

The best example of an innocent victim they could find?

 

[RBM]

If your friends, family, and countrymen were getting shot in the street like dogs, I'd hope you'd riot too.