Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (3 Viewers)

[Billy Bats]

More facts for those who care...

-His blood is found in 6 different places in her car.

If any gun owners want to chime in on this next bit be my guest but to my knowledge ballistics are like a fingerprint. Only one gun make a particular mark as a bullet travels down a barrel. With that in mind...

-DNA on bullet fragment in his garage

-Bullet fired from gun hanging on his bedroom wall

-All her bones were found in the pit.

-Weapon used to hack her up was in the pit as well

-Camera and phone were burned as well.

-Avery had a deep gash on his finger presumably from the weapon he used to hack her up

-Her remains were interwoven with steel belt radial tires of the tires in the fire, that proves that is where they were burned. Her body was not burned elsewhere and brought there, that's just bananas.

The evidence is stacked deep against Avery. I don't know how any rational person can look at the evidence and point to anyone else but Avery and the cousin who confessed they did it.

Holy crap! KP. Hacked MOP account

at least I hope, if not stop hijacking the tread and actually bring some facts. ie: read the transcripts and watch the doc.

If someone does not agree 100% with the 10 episode Netflix Entertainment Series then they shouldn't try to post in this thread? I gave a fairly lengthy post and feel comfortable with my position. If you all want to believe something else that's your call. I watched the Netflix series but I doubt many of you have searched out the missing facts not put in the Netflix series. Props to Netflix, they got folks talking.

Then there's the car we would need to address which was parked at the salvage yard. That usually happens where a person goes on someone's property and never leaves it alive, the 2 folks in question just happen to be there, one of them confesses they did it, but hold the phone let's start blaming the police. The idea they put the car on the property or planted this much evidence...this would dwarf anything they tried to whip up in the OJ Simpson trial which just so happens to be heading for TV in a new drama.

You really believe that confession is legit?

 

[Mario Kart]

You guys conclude that the "documentary" figured this whole thing out yet? Walker is gonna take action any day now. I've heard from an insider to an insider through another insider that Walker has the papers ready to go to free Avery. He's gonna be relocated to Wauwatosa.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

More facts for those who care...

-His blood is found in 6 different places in her car.

If any gun owners want to chime in on this next bit be my guest but to my knowledge ballistics are like a fingerprint. Only one gun make a particular mark as a bullet travels down a barrel. With that in mind...

-DNA on bullet fragment in his garage

-Bullet fired from gun hanging on his bedroom wall

-All her bones were found in the pit.

-Weapon used to hack her up was in the pit as well

-Camera and phone were burned as well.

-Avery had a deep gash on his finger presumably from the weapon he used to hack her up

-Her remains were interwoven with steel belt radial tires of the tires in the fire, that proves that is where they were burned. Her body was not burned elsewhere and brought there, that's just bananas.

The evidence is stacked deep against Avery. I don't know how any rational person can look at the evidence and point to anyone else but Avery and the cousin who confessed they did it.

Holy crap! KP. Hacked MOP account

at least I hope, if not stop hijacking the tread and actually bring some facts. ie: read the transcripts and watch the doc.

If someone does not agree 100% with the 10 episode Netflix Entertainment Series then they shouldn't try to post in this thread? I gave a fairly lengthy post and feel comfortable with my position. If you all want to believe something else that's your call. I watched the Netflix series but I doubt many of you have searched out the missing facts not put in the Netflix series. Props to Netflix, they got folks talking.

Then there's the car we would need to address which was parked at the salvage yard. That usually happens where a person goes on someone's property and never leaves it alive, the 2 folks in question just happen to be there, one of them confesses they did it, but hold the phone let's start blaming the police. The idea they put the car on the property or planted this much evidence...this would dwarf anything they tried to whip up in the OJ Simpson trial which just so happens to be heading for TV in a new drama.

You really believe that confession is legit?

The DNA evidence and ballistics clearly points at Avery. The cousin confession isn't even needed IMHO. I understand why many are outraged. I was after Episode 1.

 

[Billy Bats]

More facts for those who care...

-His blood is found in 6 different places in her car.

If any gun owners want to chime in on this next bit be my guest but to my knowledge ballistics are like a fingerprint. Only one gun make a particular mark as a bullet travels down a barrel. With that in mind...

-DNA on bullet fragment in his garage

-Bullet fired from gun hanging on his bedroom wall

-All her bones were found in the pit.

-Weapon used to hack her up was in the pit as well

-Camera and phone were burned as well.

-Avery had a deep gash on his finger presumably from the weapon he used to hack her up

-Her remains were interwoven with steel belt radial tires of the tires in the fire, that proves that is where they were burned. Her body was not burned elsewhere and brought there, that's just bananas.

The evidence is stacked deep against Avery. I don't know how any rational person can look at the evidence and point to anyone else but Avery and the cousin who confessed they did it.

Holy crap! KP. Hacked MOP accountat least I hope, if not stop hijacking the tread and actually bring some facts. ie: read the transcripts and watch the doc.

If someone does not agree 100% with the 10 episode Netflix Entertainment Series then they shouldn't try to post in this thread? I gave a fairly lengthy post and feel comfortable with my position. If you all want to believe something else that's your call. I watched the Netflix series but I doubt many of you have searched out the missing facts not put in the Netflix series. Props to Netflix, they got folks talking.

Then there's the car we would need to address which was parked at the salvage yard. That usually happens where a person goes on someone's property and never leaves it alive, the 2 folks in question just happen to be there, one of them confesses they did it, but hold the phone let's start blaming the police. The idea they put the car on the property or planted this much evidence...this would dwarf anything they tried to whip up in the OJ Simpson trial which just so happens to be heading for TV in a new drama.

You really believe that confession is legit?

The DNA evidence and ballistics clearly points at Avery. The cousin confession isn't even needed IMHO. I understand why many are outraged. I was after Episode 1.

So then a reason you say proves he did it, now isn't needed?

Was Dassey's confession legit? (simple yes or no would suffice)

 

[shuke]

Hi I'm new here. Is this thread worth going through all of it? Any good links for evidence against Avery that wasn't shown in the show?

The document was obviously biased, but I don't see how a conviction occurred with the case the state presented.

Gut feeling is that Avery, Tadych, and Bobby Dassey were all involved, and Brendan was an accomplice in the cover up.

 

[Daywalker]

Hi I'm new here. Is this thread worth going through all of it? Any good links for evidence against Avery that wasn't shown in the show?

The document was obviously biased, but I don't see how a conviction occurred with the case the state presented.

Gut feeling is that Avery, Tadych, and Bobby Dassey were all involved, and Brendan was an accomplice in the cover up.

I expected major bias from the doc. Some but nothing that pissed me off.

It's not worth digging into. No answers.

Either Avery did it or a complicated frame job by the police where they repeatedly messed up their own case.

 

[Daywalker]

Everyone doesn't have a fire pit going. Avery did. Her body found there. It was a botched job. Idiots getting rid of evidence.

Not cops planting evidence. Why like 3 burn sites.

With cops? One site.

 

[Politician Spock]

Hi I'm new here. Is this thread worth going through all of it? Any good links for evidence against Avery that wasn't shown in the show?

The document was obviously biased, but I don't see how a conviction occurred with the case the state presented.

Gut feeling is that Avery, Tadych, and Bobby Dassey were all involved, and Brendan was an accomplice in the cover up.

I expected major bias from the doc. Some but nothing that pissed me off.It's not worth digging into. No answers.

Either Avery did it or a complicated frame job by the police where they repeatedly messed up their own case.

Or someone else did it and framed Avery for it. Didn't have to be the police that did it. Their desire for Avery to be the murderer was more than enough to make it easy to frame him for it.

 

[identikit]

More facts for those who care...

-His blood is found in 6 different places in her car.

If any gun owners want to chime in on this next bit be my guest but to my knowledge ballistics are like a fingerprint. Only one gun make a particular mark as a bullet travels down a barrel. With that in mind...

-DNA on bullet fragment in his garage

-Bullet fired from gun hanging on his bedroom wall

-All her bones were found in the pit.

-Weapon used to hack her up was in the pit as well

-Camera and phone were burned as well.

-Avery had a deep gash on his finger presumably from the weapon he used to hack her up

-Her remains were interwoven with steel belt radial tires of the tires in the fire, that proves that is where they were burned. Her body was not burned elsewhere and brought there, that's just bananas.

The evidence is stacked deep against Avery. I don't know how any rational person can look at the evidence and point to anyone else but Avery and the cousin who confessed they did it.

Holy crap! KP. Hacked MOP account

at least I hope, if not stop hijacking the tread and actually bring some facts. ie: read the transcripts and watch the doc.

If someone does not agree 100% with the 10 episode Netflix Entertainment Series then they shouldn't try to post in this thread? I gave a fairly lengthy post and feel comfortable with my position. If you all want to believe something else that's your call. I watched the Netflix series but I doubt many of you have searched out the missing facts not put in the Netflix series. Props to Netflix, they got folks talking.

Then there's the car we would need to address which was parked at the salvage yard. That usually happens where a person goes on someone's property and never leaves it alive, the 2 folks in question just happen to be there, one of them confesses they did it, but hold the phone let's start blaming the police. The idea they put the car on the property or planted this much evidence...this would dwarf anything they tried to whip up in the OJ Simpson trial which just so happens to be heading for TV in a new drama.

You really believe that confession is legit?

The DNA evidence and ballistics clearly points at Avery. The cousin confession isn't even needed IMHO. I understand why many are outraged. I was after Episode 1.

There is no cousin confession, MoP

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Hi I'm new here. Is this thread worth going through all of it? Any good links for evidence against Avery that wasn't shown in the show?

The document was obviously biased, but I don't see how a conviction occurred with the case the state presented.

Gut feeling is that Avery, Tadych, and Bobby Dassey were all involved, and Brendan was an accomplice in the cover up.

sounds like you're pretty much in agreement with most, except for MoP, who might have been a juror

here are some links I posted a couple pages ago about the evidence left out of the show

 

[mr roboto]

So the female attorney who is taking Avery's case has experience freeing framed victims of the serial killer

 

[Ministry of Pain]

So the female attorney who is taking Avery's case has experience freeing framed victims of the serial killer

And of course the serial killer is dead already. Wasn't in particularly good health down the stretch, doubt he could have pulled it off at his advanced physical state but have at it. The guy looked like he needed an oxygen tank just to fart his last 4-5 years but I'm sure that's the guy to pin it on.

 

[shuke]

Everyone doesn't have a fire pit going. Avery did. Her body found there. It was a botched job. Idiots getting rid of evidence.

Not cops planting evidence. Why like 3 burn sites.

With cops? One site.

If you think the body was burned in Avery's fire pit where almost all of the fragments are found, then you have no explanation of the few fragments found in the quarry.

BTW for anyone, what prompted the cops to search the quarry in the first place?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Everyone doesn't have a fire pit going. Avery did. Her body found there. It was a botched job. Idiots getting rid of evidence.

Not cops planting evidence. Why like 3 burn sites.

With cops? One site.

If you think the body was burned in Avery's fire pit where almost all of the fragments are found, then you have no explanation of the few fragments found in the quarry.

BTW for anyone, what prompted the cops to search the quarry in the first place?

Good sound police detective work, just doing their job.

For those piling on the police(not you) I would ask that you at least think about Teresa Halbach the real victim in this and her family. You would want the police to investigate thoroughly. You would want them to question again and again until they get to the bottom of it. I ask you to try and think about how you would feel if your daughter were the one murdered and done in such a vicious and vile way. There is no right way to kill or be murdered but the victim suffered in ways unimaginable, try to put yourself in the family's shoes.

It's heinous it even happened but then you add in the main suspect is a man put away wrongfully for 18 years and you think there is no way...but ask yourself where would be the best place to learn how to murder someone...prison! He went in in his early 20s fairly innocent, sounds like he was mixed right in with everyone else, cell mates have reported he said he wanted to torture females on his release. Maybe he was just talking chit to get by on the inside but he had a pattern...that incident where he runs the car off the road and threatens the female is pretty telling. He wasn't 16 years old, he was already an adult and he has a low IQ apparently of 70. Good reason the murder was so botched in the cover up.

And how did this victim's car make it onto his property and park itself? I'm still missing the part where the police tow the car in and no one sees them do it and then presto they got their man.

I wanted to choke the sketch artist sheriff the first time they show him, he deserved to go to prison for what he did to Avery and in one way might be the trigger of the whole thing if you believe prison turned Avery into a murderer. Is Avery solely to blame? No likely not but he physically committed those heinous acts, you can place blame at him, prison, the sheriff, whoever you want but he did the crimes.

 

[Sinn Fein]

So, I am still in the middle of watching, but has this theory been discussed here?

Spoiler

The police didn’t kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property… freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he “calls” in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to “call” in… instead of “radio” in… the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn’t in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the “field’ on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4… 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm….

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically #### about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn’s calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach’s car and then report to him immediately.

What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don’t realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach’s car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadych’s idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach’s cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach’s cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find… but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach’s cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach’s cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ….and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn’t aware of the other’s involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach’s RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated… everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn’t fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn’t conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right… Imagine Scott Tadych’s confused and utter relief when Steve Avery’s blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery’s bedroom….. he must have been like…. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach’s murder…. “THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN” ….. We will see Scott, we will see…………………”

This is probably the most credible theory I have come across so far. Notice how the events here not only make logical sense, but they also line up with how many of the parties involved behaved during the documentary i.e how Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas seemed like they knew more about what happened than they were leading on. As well as Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey’s bizarre hostility towards Steven Avery.
I can’t see another theory topping this one personally.

 

[parasaurolophus]

So, I am still in the middle of watching, but has this theory been discussed here?

Spoiler

The police didn’t kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property… freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he “calls” in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to “call” in… instead of “radio” in… the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn’t in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the “field’ on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4… 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm….

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically #### about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn’s calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach’s car and then report to him immediately.

What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don’t realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach’s car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadych’s idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach’s cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach’s cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find… but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach’s cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery’s burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach’s cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ….and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn’t aware of the other’s involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach’s RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated… everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn’t fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn’t conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right… Imagine Scott Tadych’s confused and utter relief when Steve Avery’s blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery’s bedroom….. he must have been like…. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach’s murder…. “THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN” ….. We will see Scott, we will see…………………”

This is probably the most credible theory I have come across so far. Notice how the events here not only make logical sense, but they also line up with how many of the parties involved behaved during the documentary i.e how Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas seemed like they knew more about what happened than they were leading on. As well as Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey’s bizarre hostility towards Steven Avery.

I can’t see another theory topping this one personally.

Ummmm... Doesnt that theory pretty much fall apart from the get go? So Coburn fields the call to the sheriff's dept, but he is off duty? And he leaves in his own car before getting the plate and vehicle info, which is the whole reason he is going there?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

So, I am still in the middle of watching, but has this theory been discussed here?

Spoiler

The police didnt kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he calls in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to call in instead of radio in the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasnt in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the field on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm.

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically #### about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborns calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbachs car and then report to him immediately.

What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, dont realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbachs car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadychs idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Averys burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbachs cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbachs cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find but he also fails in making certain all of Halbachs cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Averys burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbachs cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, .and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasnt aware of the others involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbachs RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldnt fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldnt conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right Imagine Scott Tadychs confused and utter relief when Steve Averys blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Averys bedroom.. he must have been like. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbachs murder. THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN .. We will see Scott, we will see

This is probably the most credible theory I have come across so far. Notice how the events here not only make logical sense, but they also line up with how many of the parties involved behaved during the documentary i.e how Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas seemed like they knew more about what happened than they were leading on. As well as Scott Tadych and Bobby Dasseys bizarre hostility towards Steven Avery.

I cant see another theory topping this one personally.

Ummmm... Doesnt that theory pretty much fall apart from the get go? So Coburn fields the call to the sheriff's dept, but he is off duty? And he leaves in his own car before getting the plate and vehicle info, which is the whole reason he is going there?
The theory Sinn Fein posted makes sense to me, but I could easily be missing something.

Your objections seem to be adding stuff that isn't isn't in what Sinn Fein posted. It doesn't say that Colburn was off duty when he fielded the call, and it doesn't say anything about Colburn leaving in his own car. It is a bit weird that he'd have to call in to confirm that the plate number was Halbach's, but I have no idea how easy it is for a cop to find out somebody's license plate number on his own without calling somebody.

 

[Das Boot]

So, I am still in the middle of watching, but has this theory been discussed here?

Spoiler

The police didnt kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he calls in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to call in instead of radio in the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasnt in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the field on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm.

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically #### about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborns calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbachs car and then report to him immediately.

What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, dont realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbachs car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadychs idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Averys burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbachs cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbachs cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find but he also fails in making certain all of Halbachs cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Averys burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbachs cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, .and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasnt aware of the others involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbachs RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldnt fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldnt conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right Imagine Scott Tadychs confused and utter relief when Steve Averys blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Averys bedroom.. he must have been like. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbachs murder. THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN .. We will see Scott, we will see

This is probably the most credible theory I have come across so far. Notice how the events here not only make logical sense, but they also line up with how many of the parties involved behaved during the documentary i.e how Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas seemed like they knew more about what happened than they were leading on. As well as Scott Tadych and Bobby Dasseys bizarre hostility towards Steven Avery.

I cant see another theory topping this one personally.

Spoiler

Ummmm... Doesnt that theory pretty much fall apart from the get go? So Coburn fields the call to the sheriff's dept, but he is off duty? And he leaves in his own car before getting the plate and vehicle info, which is the whole reason he is going there?

The theory Sinn Fein posted makes sense to me, but I could easily be missing something.Your objections seem to be adding stuff that isn't isn't in what Sinn Fein posted. It doesn't say that Colburn was off duty when he fielded the call, and it doesn't say anything about Colburn leaving in his own car. It is a bit weird that he'd have to call in to confirm that the plate number was Halbach's, but I have no idea how easy it is for a cop to find out somebody's license plate number on his own without calling somebody.

Plus, the Manitowoc Sheriff's Department was used to not having to answer to anyone and getting away with what they wanted to. So it wouldn't have occurred to Colburn to be circumspect about checking the license plate and not having that be recorded and on record.

 

[parasaurolophus]

So, I am still in the middle of watching, but has this theory been discussed here?

Spoiler

The police didnt kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he calls in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to call in instead of radio in the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasnt in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the field on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm.

This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at. He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically #### about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborns calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbachs car and then report to him immediately.

What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, dont realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbachs car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadychs idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Averys burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbachs cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbachs cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find but he also fails in making certain all of Halbachs cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Averys burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbachs cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme.

By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, .and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasnt aware of the others involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbachs RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.

None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldnt fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldnt conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right Imagine Scott Tadychs confused and utter relief when Steve Averys blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Averys bedroom.. he must have been like. WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbachs murder. THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN .. We will see Scott, we will see

This is probably the most credible theory I have come across so far. Notice how the events here not only make logical sense, but they also line up with how many of the parties involved behaved during the documentary i.e how Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas seemed like they knew more about what happened than they were leading on. As well as Scott Tadych and Bobby Dasseys bizarre hostility towards Steven Avery.

I cant see another theory topping this one personally.

Spoiler

Ummmm... Doesnt that theory pretty much fall apart from the get go? So Coburn fields the call to the sheriff's dept, but he is off duty? And he leaves in his own car before getting the plate and vehicle info, which is the whole reason he is going there?The theory Sinn Fein posted makes sense to me, but I could easily be missing something.

Your objections seem to be adding stuff that isn't isn't in what Sinn Fein posted. It doesn't say that Colburn was off duty when he fielded the call, and it doesn't say anything about Colburn leaving in his own car. It is a bit weird that he'd have to call in to confirm that the plate number was Halbach's, but I have no idea how easy it is for a cop to find out somebody's license plate number on his own without calling somebody.

I read it too quickly. I thought it just said he wasn't in a police cruiser. Missed the sentence where it said he was on foot so just temporarily not in a police cruiser.

It still makes no sense though that colburn would take the call himself, which is apparently not recorded, then leave before getting the info on the car that he was going to see so he had to call it in?

 

[Ignoramus]

4. He calls and calls and calls the victim until she shows up on his property. Her body is discovered later on, in his burn pit cremated and hacked. Her cell phone discovered in a tin bin not 20 feet from the front door of Steve Avery. He was known to answer the door in a towel and this woman had been there before and told Autotrader she never wanted to go back, she was afraid of Avery.

She called the Avery's first and left a message. They had an appointment together. He was returning her call. And there were 2 calls, like half hr apart.

Also, her "body" was discovered in several (3) locations

Her co-workers testimony regarding her attitude towards Avery was, "ew"... and that's it. Pretty sure the fear thing was heresay... LMK if you know who's testimony that was though.

You have the facts wrong. Not one single bone was missing of the 270 in the human body if that number I said is accurate. All of her in pieces was found in his pit.

X

Found in three places.

Did you even watch it?

Plus they just dug everything out with shovels. The forensic anthropologist blasted their entire process.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Things people need to keep in the back of the minds when they feel pity for Avery...

1. He did doust a cat in oil and throw it on a fire to watch it burn. That was glossed over as he didn't mean to burn the cat but you can find enough local reddit bits to discover it was a terribly cruel act and something that automatically for some would warrant an almost death sentence if not serious time in prison and yet I realize others just shrug your shoulders.

2. Past criminal activity includes pointing a gun at a female relative.

3. Avery called Autotrader and requested Halbach several times, he had a fixation on her.

4. Halbach complained to her boss not to send her to Avery's place because he gave her the creeps...this is pretty damning if you ask me. People know when things aren't right, Halbach knew this guy was not right.

5. Avery uses *67 twice on the day of her murder to hide his identity to try and get Halbach to the property.

6. Bullet with Halbach's DNA was fired from the gun that hung up in Avery's room.

7. Avery purchased handcuffs and leg irons, also had a terrible relationship with his g/f, one time the police ordered him to stay away form her for a full 3 days. He used the handcuffs and leg irons to restrain Halbach and treat her like an animal.

8.This was presented at trial, not in the Netflix series...Dassey says he helped Avery move the Rav4, Avery lifts hood and removes battery cable. Even should you think the police planted evidence, no way they could come up with the hood latch on that car.

There simply is no way the police murdered Halbach and pinned it on Avery. Could the police have possible planted some evidence to help the process? I'll let you all discuss that but I can't believe so many of you think he's innocent.

 

[Billy Bats]

So MOP, it's either the police did it, or Avery? There was no one else on the property that day?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

There simply is no way the police murdered Halbach and pinned it on Avery. Could the police have possible planted some evidence to help the process? I'll let you all discuss that but I can't believe so many of you think he's innocent.

It's not the case that either the police murdered Halbach or else Avery must have. There are millions of other possibilities. For example, maybe the police killed Halback in self-defense. Okay, that one's not very likely, but I'm just warming up. Here's another one. Maybe Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey killed Halbach (see post #1874). That one may be about half as likely as the proposition that Avery killed her. If you add up all the other millions of possibilities, they collectively might have roughly the same probability as the proposition that Avery killed her, or at least somewhere close to that.

One of the few possibilities that I feel comfortable ruling out completely is that this case has been completely solved, and everything happened just the way the prosecution said it did. There is still some mystery here, and people are right to have questions. There are things that don't quite add up no matter what version of events you find most likely.

 

[bentley]

My most likely version of events is the he did it and also that the cops planted evidence to make sure that he was guilty. The fact that authorities can take such action based on simple pride and have such absolute authority bestowed upon them by so much of the general public is why this show is important in creating a national conversation, regardless of whether or not Steven Avery did it.

 

[Sabertooth]

Yeah it's like MOP is purposefully being obtuse here with the false dichotomy he is putting forth.

 

[Das Boot]

My most likely version of events is the he did it and also that the cops planted evidence to make sure that he was guilty. The fact that authorities can take such action based on simple pride and have such absolute authority bestowed upon them by so much of the general public is why this show is important in creating a national conversation, regardless of whether or not Steven Avery did it.

I agree with all of what you said (except for considering it likely that Avery did it - I haven't reached that conclusion).

I'd additionally add that, in addition to the national conversation being generated, it seems like an injustice that Avery has no hope of a new trial absent new evidence being discovered considering that a lot of people now have reasonable doubt about his conviction and the process in which it was done.

 

[Sabertooth]

There simply is no way the police murdered Halbach and pinned it on Avery. Could the police have possible planted some evidence to help the process? I'll let you all discuss that but I can't believe so many of you think he's innocent.

It's not the case that either the police murdered Halbach or else Avery must have. There are millions of other possibilities. For example, maybe the police killed Halback in self-defense. Okay, that one's not very likely, but I'm just warming up. Here's another one. Maybe Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey killed Halbach (see post #1874). That one may be about half as likely as the proposition that Avery killed her. If you add up all the other millions of possibilities, they collectively might have roughly the same probability as the proposition that Avery killed her, or at least somewhere close to that.

One of the few possibilities that I feel comfortable ruling out completely is that this case has been completely solved, and everything happened just the way the prosecution said it did. There is still some mystery here, and people are right to have questions. There are things that don't quite add up no matter what version of events you find most likely.

Yeah like the theory that Avery did it alone and also with Dassey.

 

[Politician Spock]

So MOP, it's either the police did it, or Avery? There was no one else on the property that day?

It's okay everyone. MOP is here with all the answers. No need to burden ourselves with critical thinking anymore. MOP has saved our brain cells from a workout. WHEW!!! That was close. This thread almost turned into a trainwreck until MOP showed up.

 

[Das Boot]

Yeah it's like MOP is purposefully being obtuse here with the false dichotomy he is putting forth.

That's my take.

Either it's schtick, or his mind is fully made up and it's futile to attempt to discuss it with him.

I'll further add that I'm suspicious that the keys to the MOP account have been handed over.

 

[mr roboto]

Yeah it's like MOP is purposefully being obtuse here with the false dichotomy he is putting forth.

This thread needed the intellectual equivalent of a big dumb Labrador puppy (MoP) to revive it.

 

[Billy Bats]

What if the body was placed into the fire pit unknowing to Steven and he went along as usual with the bonfire. Is that out of the realm of possibility?

 

[Sinn Fein]

What if the body was placed into the fire pit unknowing to Steven and he went along as usual with the bonfire. Is that out of the realm of possibility?

The body? Seems like that might be noticeable, either visually, or by smell. Maybe not if they were burning tires though

With the charred remains showing up in three places, I'd say its more likely that the remains were transported to the bonfire site, than the remains were carried away from the bonfire site.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

6. Bullet with Halbach's DNA was fired from the gun that hung up in Avery's room.

7. Avery purchased handcuffs and leg irons, also had a terrible relationship with his g/f, one time the police ordered him to stay away form her for a full 3 days. He used the handcuffs and leg irons to restrain Halbach and treat her like an animal.

8.This was presented at trial, not in the Netflix series...Dassey says he helped Avery move the Rav4, Avery lifts hood and removes battery cable. Even should you think the police planted evidence, no way they could come up with the hood latch on that car.

6. I thought it was concluded that it came from A .22 caliber rifle, but inconclusive that it was his. It was the most popular model of .22 rifle in the world (I speculate maybe a Ruger 10-22?, just my guess, haven't read that anywhere).

7. Steve's DNA was found on the leg irons and some other person's, but that person was NOT Halbach.

8. This was questioned because of the aforementioned agent not changing gloves, and very likely could have transferred the "contact DNA" that was present

 

[Shrugs]

6. Bullet with Halbach's DNA was fired from the gun that hung up in Avery's room.

7. Avery purchased handcuffs and leg irons, also had a terrible relationship with his g/f, one time the police ordered him to stay away form her for a full 3 days. He used the handcuffs and leg irons to restrain Halbach and treat her like an animal.

8.This was presented at trial, not in the Netflix series...Dassey says he helped Avery move the Rav4, Avery lifts hood and removes battery cable. Even should you think the police planted evidence, no way they could come up with the hood latch on that car.

6. I thought it was concluded that it came from A .22 caliber rifle, but inconclusive that it was his. It was the most popular model of .22 rifle in the world (I speculate maybe a Ruger 10-22?, just my guess, haven't read that anywhere).

7. Steve's DNA was found on the leg irons and some other person's, but that person was NOT Halbach.

8. This was questioned because of the aforementioned agent not changing gloves, and very likely could have transferred the "contact DNA" that was present

Yes, MOP is really hurting his case with these inclusions. Guy has pink furry handcuffs with only his and his girlfriend's DNA on them, and you make it out like they are police-issue handcuffs, then flat out say he used them to restrain Halbach when there is no evidence of that.

 

[cockroach]

6. Bullet with Halbach's DNA was fired from the gun that hung up in Avery's room.

7. Avery purchased handcuffs and leg irons, also had a terrible relationship with his g/f, one time the police ordered him to stay away form her for a full 3 days. He used the handcuffs and leg irons to restrain Halbach and treat her like an animal.

8.This was presented at trial, not in the Netflix series...Dassey says he helped Avery move the Rav4, Avery lifts hood and removes battery cable. Even should you think the police planted evidence, no way they could come up with the hood latch on that car.

6. I thought it was concluded that it came from A .22 caliber rifle, but inconclusive that it was his. It was the most popular model of .22 rifle in the world (I speculate maybe a Ruger 10-22?, just my guess, haven't read that anywhere).

7. Steve's DNA was found on the leg irons and some other person's, but that person was NOT Halbach.

8. This was questioned because of the aforementioned agent not changing gloves, and very likely could have transferred the "contact DNA" that was present

Yes, MOP is really hurting his case with these inclusions. Guy has pink furry handcuffs with only his and his girlfriend's DNA on them, and you make it out like they are police-issue handcuffs, then flat out say he used them to restrain Halbach when there is no evidence of that.

Yea, they were novelty cuffs for sex play. I seriously doubt that they were able to restrain a struggling person. The pink ones were at Dassey's place. The ones found at Avery's didn't have the pink fluff but were bought at a sex store for novelty purposes.

The bullet found that had her DNA on it had no bone/brain or blood fragments included with it.

I don't know about how much of her skeleton was found, but they weren't even able to find a single whole tooth. I think they said they found a part of a tooth found in part of a suspected jaw bone... so I love how all of a sudden they have every bone in her body.

 

[mr roboto]

6. Bullet with Halbach's DNA was fired from the gun that hung up in Avery's room.

7. Avery purchased handcuffs and leg irons, also had a terrible relationship with his g/f, one time the police ordered him to stay away form her for a full 3 days. He used the handcuffs and leg irons to restrain Halbach and treat her like an animal.

8.This was presented at trial, not in the Netflix series...Dassey says he helped Avery move the Rav4, Avery lifts hood and removes battery cable. Even should you think the police planted evidence, no way they could come up with the hood latch on that car.

6. I thought it was concluded that it came from A .22 caliber rifle, but inconclusive that it was his. It was the most popular model of .22 rifle in the world (I speculate maybe a Ruger 10-22?, just my guess, haven't read that anywhere).

7. Steve's DNA was found on the leg irons and some other person's, but that person was NOT Halbach.

8. This was questioned because of the aforementioned agent not changing gloves, and very likely could have transferred the "contact DNA" that was present

Yes, MOP is really hurting his case with these inclusions. Guy has pink furry handcuffs with only his and his girlfriend's DNA on them, and you make it out like they are police-issue handcuffs, then flat out say he used them to restrain Halbach when there is no evidence of that.

Yea, they were novelty cuffs for sex play. I seriously doubt that they were able to restrain a struggling person. The pink ones were at Dassey's place. The ones found at Avery's didn't have the pink fluff but were bought at a sex store for novelty purposes.

The bullet found that had her DNA on it had no bone/brain or blood fragments included with it.

I don't know about how much of her skeleton was found, but they weren't even able to find a single whole tooth. I think they said they found a part of a tooth found in part of a suspected jaw bone... so I love how all of a sudden they have every bone in her body.

MOP doesn't know what the #### he's talking about.

 

[Golden Gopher]

Everyone doesn't have a fire pit going. Avery did. Her body found there. It was a botched job. Idiots getting rid of evidence.

Not cops planting evidence. Why like 3 burn sites.

With cops? One site.

If you think the body was burned in Avery's fire pit where almost all of the fragments are found, then you have no explanation of the few fragments found in the quarry.

BTW for anyone, what prompted the cops to search the quarry in the first place?

Good sound police detective work, just doing their job.

For those piling on the police(not you) I would ask that you at least think about Teresa Halbach the real victim in this and her family. You would want the police to investigate thoroughly. You would want them to question again and again until they get to the bottom of it. I ask you to try and think about how you would feel if your daughter were the one murdered and done in such a vicious and vile way. There is no right way to kill or be murdered but the victim suffered in ways unimaginable, try to put yourself in the family's shoes.

It's heinous it even happened but then you add in the main suspect is a man put away wrongfully for 18 years and you think there is no way...but ask yourself where would be the best place to learn how to murder someone...prison! He went in in his early 20s fairly innocent, sounds like he was mixed right in with everyone else, cell mates have reported he said he wanted to torture females on his release. Maybe he was just talking chit to get by on the inside but he had a pattern...that incident where he runs the car off the road and threatens the female is pretty telling. He wasn't 16 years old, he was already an adult and he has a low IQ apparently of 70. Good reason the murder was so botched in the cover up.

And how did this victim's car make it onto his property and park itself? I'm still missing the part where the police tow the car in and no one sees them do it and then presto they got their man.

I wanted to choke the sketch artist sheriff the first time they show him, he deserved to go to prison for what he did to Avery and in one way might be the trigger of the whole thing if you believe prison turned Avery into a murderer. Is Avery solely to blame? No likely not but he physically committed those heinous acts, you can place blame at him, prison, the sheriff, whoever you want but he did the crimes.

If somebody planted the Rav4, they wouldn't have needed to tow it there, most likely.

 

[cockroach]

I'm less certain about Steve. My gut says he didn't do it, for two reasons. The first is all of the doubt over the County's involvement in finding evidence against him that has been gone over in her ad nauseum. The second is how he looked when the verdict of guilty on Count 1 was read. To me, he didn't look mad. He didn't look shocked even. To me he looked very sad and almost betrayed. He looked at the jury like, "Seriously? How can you think I'm guilty?" I don't think a guy as dim as him can be that good an actor. I think that look was legit, and in that moment I believed he was innocent. I'm probably 70/30 he didn't do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqjGEO4lmuc

Here's the footage of the verdict being read.

 

[cockroach]

Way too much smoke for there not to be a lot of fire, in regards to him being human garbage. I did find it curious that the documentary makers stopped showing Jodi at all once she was out of his life for good. If she is saying bad things now, I am sure they didn't want that in the documentary since it wouldn't go along with their "we want him to look innocent" narrative. And what about his kids with the girlfriend when he went to prison the first time? I believe they weren't even mentioned again after the first episode, obviously because they cut off all ties with him.

Why was it strange that they didn't show Jodi any more once she left town? She pretty much becomes irrelevant at that point... really... we have her talking to Steven twice the night of the murder. If you care what she thought/how she felt, listen to those.

And for the 2nd bolded... it's obvious eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb1gDMOeb2Y

That's one of the twin boys that were 10 days old when he went to jail the first time. He talks about visiting his dad and he says he thinks he was framed (although admits he could've done it)

 

[cockroach]

Everyone doesn't have a fire pit going. Avery did. Her body found there. It was a botched job. Idiots getting rid of evidence.

Not cops planting evidence. Why like 3 burn sites.

With cops? One site.

If you think the body was burned in Avery's fire pit where almost all of the fragments are found, then you have no explanation of the few fragments found in the quarry.

BTW for anyone, what prompted the cops to search the quarry in the first place?

Good sound police detective work, just doing their job.

For those piling on the police(not you) I would ask that you at least think about Teresa Halbach the real victim in this and her family. You would want the police to investigate thoroughly. You would want them to question again and again until they get to the bottom of it. I ask you to try and think about how you would feel if your daughter were the one murdered and done in such a vicious and vile way. There is no right way to kill or be murdered but the victim suffered in ways unimaginable, try to put yourself in the family's shoes.

It's heinous it even happened but then you add in the main suspect is a man put away wrongfully for 18 years and you think there is no way...but ask yourself where would be the best place to learn how to murder someone...prison! He went in in his early 20s fairly innocent, sounds like he was mixed right in with everyone else, cell mates have reported he said he wanted to torture females on his release. Maybe he was just talking chit to get by on the inside but he had a pattern...that incident where he runs the car off the road and threatens the female is pretty telling. He wasn't 16 years old, he was already an adult and he has a low IQ apparently of 70. Good reason the murder was so botched in the cover up.

And how did this victim's car make it onto his property and park itself? I'm still missing the part where the police tow the car in and no one sees them do it and then presto they got their man.

I wanted to choke the sketch artist sheriff the first time they show him, he deserved to go to prison for what he did to Avery and in one way might be the trigger of the whole thing if you believe prison turned Avery into a murderer. Is Avery solely to blame? No likely not but he physically committed those heinous acts, you can place blame at him, prison, the sheriff, whoever you want but he did the crimes.

If somebody planted the Rav4, they wouldn't have needed to tow it there, most likely.

I wonder why it was the spare key that was found and none of her house keys or anything were.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Good sound police detective work, just doing their job.

For those piling on the police(not you) I would ask that you at least think about Teresa Halbach the real victim in this and her family. You would want the police to investigate thoroughly. You would want them to question again and again until they get to the bottom of it. I ask you to try and think about how you would feel if your daughter were the one murdered and done in such a vicious and vile way.

A thorough investigation would have been great, but that's not what we got at all. Part of the problem Avery's defense team faced was that the cops basically never even considered anyone else as a suspect, and all the would-be leads were stale by the time Avery's lawyers could have conducted their own investigation.

A thorough investigation would have at least considered Bobby Dassey as a suspect, or Scott Taddych, or Halbach's roommate, or her boyfriend, or her ex-boyfriend. But it seems that they never considered anyone aside from Steve Avery, just like in the rape trial some decades before. That's the opposite of thorough.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Factoid: trial transcripts says it was a Marlin .22 rifle, which is indeed one of the longest-produced, most popular .22. rifles ever made

just adding that info to the burn pit

 

[parasaurolophus]

Factoid: trial transcripts says it was a Marlin .22 rifle, which is indeed one of the longest-produced, most popular .22. rifles ever made

just adding that info to the burn pit

I dont know much about ballistics, but does this mean that every rifle that is a marlin .22 would be interchangeable? I thought it was much more unique than that.

 

[cockroach]

Good sound police detective work, just doing their job.

For those piling on the police(not you) I would ask that you at least think about Teresa Halbach the real victim in this and her family. You would want the police to investigate thoroughly. You would want them to question again and again until they get to the bottom of it. I ask you to try and think about how you would feel if your daughter were the one murdered and done in such a vicious and vile way.

A thorough investigation would have been great, but that's not what we got at all. Part of the problem Avery's defense team faced was that the cops basically never even considered anyone else as a suspect, and all the would-be leads were stale by the time Avery's lawyers could have conducted their own investigation.

A thorough investigation would have at least considered Bobby Dassey as a suspect, or Scott Taddych, or Halbach's roommate, or her ex-boyfriend, and so on. But it seems that they never considered anyone aside from Steve Avery, just like in the rape trial some decades before. That's the opposite of thorough.

I could picture MOP crying over a blue ribbon when he typed that.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Factoid: trial transcripts says it was a Marlin .22 rifle, which is indeed one of the longest-produced, most popular .22. rifles ever made

just adding that info to the burn pit

I dont know much about ballistics, but does this mean that every rifle that is a marlin .22 would be interchangeable? I thought it was much more unique than that.

Apparently they could match the shell casings to the specific gun with pretty good confidence, but because the bullet was flattened, it could be matched only to the class of guns (make and model) rather than an individual gun.

There's a bit about that here: http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/making-a-murderer-steven-averys-lawyer-on-the-evidence-left-out-20160115

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Factoid: trial transcripts says it was a Marlin .22 rifle, which is indeed one of the longest-produced, most popular .22. rifles ever made

just adding that info to the burn pit

I dont know much about ballistics, but does this mean that every rifle that is a marlin .22 would be interchangeable? I thought it was much more unique than that.

It was a flattened bullet. When a gun fires a bullet, it leaves tool marks on the bulet projectile from the rifling (spiral grooves) inside the barrel. I believe the defense argued that, at least the sample the prosecution presented, only proved it came from the same type of rifle, but not necessarily Avery's rifle.

 

[shuke]

Just realized that our girl Angenette Levy is now a reporter here in Cincinnati.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Just realized that our girl Angenette Levy is now a reporter here in Cincinnati.

big fan

she needs to appear in the next Eat OffTM video

 

[Billy Bats]

Factoid: trial transcripts says it was a Marlin .22 rifle, which is indeed one of the longest-produced, most popular .22. rifles ever made

just adding that info to the burn pit

I dont know much about ballistics, but does this mean that every rifle that is a marlin .22 would be interchangeable? I thought it was much more unique than that.

Apparently they could match the shell casings to the specific gun with pretty good confidence, but because the bullet was flattened, it could be matched only to the class of guns (make and model) rather than an individual gun.

There's a bit about that here: http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/making-a-murderer-steven-averys-lawyer-on-the-evidence-left-out-20160115

Bobby owned his own .22 Marlin the same model that was allegedly used to kill Teresa. A coworker of Scott's says that Scott tried to sell him a .22 rifle belonging to one of the Dassey boys.

Hmmmm.

 

[mr roboto]

Factoid: trial transcripts says it was a Marlin .22 rifle, which is indeed one of the longest-produced, most popular .22. rifles ever made

just adding that info to the burn pit

I dont know much about ballistics, but does this mean that every rifle that is a marlin .22 would be interchangeable? I thought it was much more unique than that.

Apparently they could match the shell casings to the specific gun with pretty good confidence, but because the bullet was flattened, it could be matched only to the class of guns (make and model) rather than an individual gun.

There's a bit about that here: http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/making-a-murderer-steven-averys-lawyer-on-the-evidence-left-out-20160115

Bobby owned his own .22 Marlin the same model that was allegedly used to kill Teresa. A coworker of Scott's says that Scott tried to sell him a .22 rifle belonging to one of the Dassey boys.

Hmmmm.

If only ANY of the other potential suspects were truly investigated...