Sabertooth
Footballguy
Have you moved off this stance yet? That it's crazy talk to cut him in favor or guys like Decker and Nelson?
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Manningham. Is it time to dump him? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
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Footballguy
No I say he has had a bad 4 game run, including missing significant time in those 4 games. I also said you can't ignore past production... So I don't really see how "any other player" qualifies here. He has produced before, which cannot be said about a great number of players on NFL rosters.Yeah... I just disagree. I rate him over all of those guys (except maybe Decker). Donald Jones? I guess time will tell. I'm not dropping and wouldn't suggest anyone else drop him.
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Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
As I said earlier in the thread also, it depends on the size of your roster. I have all three. I'm fine to wait. And yes, cutting him outright in most leagues would generally still be crazy talk. If Nicks continues to blow up like he has been, defenses will eventually roll to his side. If Manningham rides the pine for a while, he will get motivated at some point. I do like Cruz, but Im willing to see if he can continue to produce once defenses actually prepare for him. And if Manningham comes in late in the season, rested, motivated and with defenses that have been playing an entire season rolling towards Nicks, yes, I still think he can blow up. Late in the season. When he will be needed the most.You talk about him like he has no talent. He isn't Doug Baldwin. He isnt Early Doucet. He isn't even Brian Hartline. Manningham is a talented, big, fast WR that has had fairly consistent success in the NFL.In your league you roster three receivers, so in your league maybe I could see dropping him because there are bye weeks and there must be a revolving door of waiver wire fodder.But in most leagues that is still pretty much crazy talk. Im not ready to sell out yet. Sorry.
Bermuda_Chub
Footballguy
This is a good thing, not a bad thing. Having watched Eli his entire career, after witnessing his long, consoling chat with MM immediately after the final whistle, I virtually guarantee that MM will be given every opportunity to put up a 100+ 2TD performance against the Seahawks. My guess is that he delivers. MM may be dumb as rocks, but he has a big heart and a ton of pride. Whilst the rest of the team fell apart down the stretch last season, Manningham played his best ball. Eli has not forgotten.Santana Moss isn't that guy anymore. He's been one of the most consistent players in the game so far this season.To make things fun, I'll have to start Mario Manningham this week because of Santana Moss's bye week. Yuck.I tend to think the problem with a guy like Manningham is that he is going to have some weeks where he goes off. He's going to be a Santana Moss lite. And you'll likely miss those weeks when they come on the tail of three weeks of 2-21 type production. I have no doubt he is going to have multiple 100+ yard games this season. I also have no doubt that I can't start him right now. He's that type of guy that you zig when you should zag with him.How did I know you were going to pull this back up this morning?Like I said earlier, I have a deep bench and will be happy later in the stretch run when Manningham produces.Probably should have dumped him before. Peterson isn't going to produce Top 5 numbers this season either.Just so I'm clear, should I dump Manningham before or after I trade away Adrian Peterson?
However, I will admit I didn't expect the complete lack of production against the Cards. Usually I say 4 weeks in you are what you are. I'll give him another week, but last weeks production was poor.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Here is my honest take on Manningham from this past week.
1st target - He was the first read on the first play of his game back. Annnnnnnnnd, he bagged up the route pretty obviously. Eli walked toward him with the wtf look right after the play.
2nd target - Very next play. So Manningham was the target of the first two scripted plays the Giants used out of the gate. Mario runs a 10 yard curl and is triangulated by Cardinals defenders. He comes down inside, Eli threw it more outside. If he'd have thrown it to Manningham, the inside guy has a pick6. Adrian Wilson actually came off the TE to almost pick this. Manningham ran a poor route right though.
3rd target, sort of - This doesn't show up in the box score. But Manningham was then on 3rd and 10, targetted on a WR screen. The play was nullified because of a penalty and got batted at the line anyway. But this still illustrates that the Giants were making a conscious effort to get Manningham the ball on the first three plays of the game. This shows their mindset a bit in regards to what Manningham can potentially bring to the table.
They did't throw him another ball in the first half. So boom-boom-boom, and nothing to show for it but a wrong route, a bad route, and a nullified play. Then we read this from the New York Times:
5th target - Critical 3rd and 3. Trailing 10-20 they needed this. Manningham runs a little sideline route and makes the catch keeping his feet in. He was open and not contested but grabbed it and stayed in. Good play.
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Analysis - I think the quote in the paper really comes into focus on film here. He screwed up early and left the door open for Cruz. Cruz stuck his foot in the door. But I don't think Coughlin is the type of coach to play willy nilly with the depth chart. If Manningham comes out as the WR2 on the depth chart, I think you have to treat him as such regardless of Cruz. But he going to get overtaken within a few more weeks if he runs bad routes and can't gather in some tough catches. He's in a precarious position right now. Might gut says he has one more week before a change is made.
1st target - He was the first read on the first play of his game back. Annnnnnnnnd, he bagged up the route pretty obviously. Eli walked toward him with the wtf look right after the play.
2nd target - Very next play. So Manningham was the target of the first two scripted plays the Giants used out of the gate. Mario runs a 10 yard curl and is triangulated by Cardinals defenders. He comes down inside, Eli threw it more outside. If he'd have thrown it to Manningham, the inside guy has a pick6. Adrian Wilson actually came off the TE to almost pick this. Manningham ran a poor route right though.
3rd target, sort of - This doesn't show up in the box score. But Manningham was then on 3rd and 10, targetted on a WR screen. The play was nullified because of a penalty and got batted at the line anyway. But this still illustrates that the Giants were making a conscious effort to get Manningham the ball on the first three plays of the game. This shows their mindset a bit in regards to what Manningham can potentially bring to the table.
They did't throw him another ball in the first half. So boom-boom-boom, and nothing to show for it but a wrong route, a bad route, and a nullified play. Then we read this from the New York Times:
3th target, actual - :11 of the Third Quarter. Now this play was incomplete because Manning put it about a foot too far out of bounds. Manningham dove for it but it would have been ruled incomplete because he bobbled it and didn't secure it. Bad throw by Eli. But Mario failed the catch too.4th target - After hitting Cruz on a few gainers, Eli scrambles and misses an open Manningham. Hit on the play.
5th target - Critical 3rd and 3. Trailing 10-20 they needed this. Manningham runs a little sideline route and makes the catch keeping his feet in. He was open and not contested but grabbed it and stayed in. Good play.
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Analysis - I think the quote in the paper really comes into focus on film here. He screwed up early and left the door open for Cruz. Cruz stuck his foot in the door. But I don't think Coughlin is the type of coach to play willy nilly with the depth chart. If Manningham comes out as the WR2 on the depth chart, I think you have to treat him as such regardless of Cruz. But he going to get overtaken within a few more weeks if he runs bad routes and can't gather in some tough catches. He's in a precarious position right now. Might gut says he has one more week before a change is made.
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Giants Homer here.
Let me give it to you straight. Anyone that drops Manningham is making a huge mistake.
We all know that he does dumb things sometimes, and will run a wrong route here or there. Thats just who he is. He's also a guy that has an unbelievable knack for getting open and is great with the ball in his hands after the catch.
Last week, he was clearly rusty and after a miscommunication between him and Eli in the beginning of the game, he was taken out of the 2 WR sets, as has been widely reported. Towards, the end of the game after nicks game winning touchdown, you can see clearly see Eli taking on a leadership role and consoling/encouraging Manningham.
It will take more than a game or two for Eli to just lose trust in Manningham totally after years of playing with him, and as I've seen in the past, the next week Eli makes a point to get that receiver involved early and often. The most recent example of something similiar I can think of is last year when the Giants played in Seattle and Kevin Boss was playing in front of a bunch of family and friends (he's from Corvallis, Oregon). Boss fumbled early in the game, and I found something from a Mike Garofolo article about it:
Eventually, things worked out for Boss, who was a game-day captain today. He finally found the end zone on a crossing pattern at the back of the end zone when a rolling Eli Manning squeezed the ball between a pair of defenders.
Manning has been known to take care of his targets by looking for them in the end zone when they’re due for touchdowns — while ahead by significant margins, of course. He did it in Houston to make sure Steve Smith didn’t feel slighted by Hakeem Nicks’ three-touchdown day, and he did it for Boss in front of a crowd of about 100 family members and friends.
“We didn’t talk about it, but I’m sure he was probably trying to look my way,” said Boss, who has 11 touchdowns combined in the past two seasons. “Being the guy he is, he was maybe trying to help me out a little bit. ... I’ll be honest, I wanted one pretty bad today, just for the fans and the family who were here. It was pretty special.”
Whatever you do, get Manningham in your lineup this week against Seattle. Eli will be going to him early and often and I expect a few early deep bombs as well.
Let me give it to you straight. Anyone that drops Manningham is making a huge mistake.
We all know that he does dumb things sometimes, and will run a wrong route here or there. Thats just who he is. He's also a guy that has an unbelievable knack for getting open and is great with the ball in his hands after the catch.
Last week, he was clearly rusty and after a miscommunication between him and Eli in the beginning of the game, he was taken out of the 2 WR sets, as has been widely reported. Towards, the end of the game after nicks game winning touchdown, you can see clearly see Eli taking on a leadership role and consoling/encouraging Manningham.
It will take more than a game or two for Eli to just lose trust in Manningham totally after years of playing with him, and as I've seen in the past, the next week Eli makes a point to get that receiver involved early and often. The most recent example of something similiar I can think of is last year when the Giants played in Seattle and Kevin Boss was playing in front of a bunch of family and friends (he's from Corvallis, Oregon). Boss fumbled early in the game, and I found something from a Mike Garofolo article about it:
Eventually, things worked out for Boss, who was a game-day captain today. He finally found the end zone on a crossing pattern at the back of the end zone when a rolling Eli Manning squeezed the ball between a pair of defenders.
Manning has been known to take care of his targets by looking for them in the end zone when they’re due for touchdowns — while ahead by significant margins, of course. He did it in Houston to make sure Steve Smith didn’t feel slighted by Hakeem Nicks’ three-touchdown day, and he did it for Boss in front of a crowd of about 100 family members and friends.
“We didn’t talk about it, but I’m sure he was probably trying to look my way,” said Boss, who has 11 touchdowns combined in the past two seasons. “Being the guy he is, he was maybe trying to help me out a little bit. ... I’ll be honest, I wanted one pretty bad today, just for the fans and the family who were here. It was pretty special.”
Whatever you do, get Manningham in your lineup this week against Seattle. Eli will be going to him early and often and I expect a few early deep bombs as well.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Id love to start Manningham this week and expect something with Dez on a bye.
Just can't do it over Decker...can't take the risk of another stinker.
He is firmly on the bench and a hold for a little while longer.
But getting harder and harder to hold on him and miss out on some guys that may be able to help me.
Just can't do it over Decker...can't take the risk of another stinker.
He is firmly on the bench and a hold for a little while longer.
But getting harder and harder to hold on him and miss out on some guys that may be able to help me.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Very interesting post. This is setting up like a pivotal week for Manningham.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
No way I'd start him over Decker. Decker is top 10 material in PPR right now.
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
I'm holding on Manningham as well but no way in he** is he in my lineup this week. Not after last week's debacle. I'd love to see him burn me for benching him though. I miss the WR3 I thought I drafted and would welcome him back with open arms.He hasn't struggled mightily. Was on his way to a big week in week 2 before the concussion, sat out week 3, and had a bad game week 4 as we know. Last weeks game is not going to change the fact that he is a big part of the passing offens.
Statler & Waldorf
Footballguy
He struggled because of the lack of practice time and it was his first game back after his concussion. With him hopefully more in sync, they'll look to get him involved early. That probably happens a lot with most teams and QB's.
RamMan
Footballguy
This from Giants RapidReporter (whatever that is) Alex Raskin:
Oct. 05, 2011 11:50 a.m. - by Alex Raskin - Manningham insists he's still starting at WR
Even though WR Mario Manningham was briefly benched during last Sunday's victory, he insists he remains the starter opposite WR Hakeem Nicks. Manningham wouldn't elaborate on the reasoning behind the brief benching. He also said he is no longer feeling any lingering issues with the concussion he suffered in Week 3
Maybe it would be better to hear it from Coughlin rather than Mario?
Oct. 05, 2011 11:50 a.m. - by Alex Raskin - Manningham insists he's still starting at WR
Even though WR Mario Manningham was briefly benched during last Sunday's victory, he insists he remains the starter opposite WR Hakeem Nicks. Manningham wouldn't elaborate on the reasoning behind the brief benching. He also said he is no longer feeling any lingering issues with the concussion he suffered in Week 3
Maybe it would be better to hear it from Coughlin rather than Mario?
solorca
Footballguy
Looks like Bloom and Dodds are WAY down on him this week. Dodds has him in the 30's and Bloom has him at 50. Based on their rankings, I should be starting Michael Crabtree over him by a significant margin.
Personally, I think that Manningham is an upside play this week who should at least put up solid flex numbers.
Personally, I think that Manningham is an upside play this week who should at least put up solid flex numbers.
Angry Beavers
Footballguy
That is the reason he gets the start for me as well.You have to figure if he can't have a good day against Seattle he will have to show something before earning his spot in 2 WR sets.
buck naked
Footballguy
That's just stupid to drop a guy that low because of last week and a little bit of bad press. IMOManningham has always produced when given the opportunity the past 2 years.
Agreed. Lots of respect for Bloom but he is way off on this one even if Manningham doesn't have a great game. Surprised he is letting all this buzz influence him like a newbie.
cruz doesnt need to be the second coming to beat out manningham. he needs to run the right routes and hold onto a few balls, something manningham hasnt shown the ability to do this year. i like the cruz nuthugger accusation, sick debate point bro, standard shark pool bs. listen, heres the thing, i own manningham in a few leagues but im not blinded by bias like the rest of yall and can see the writing on the wall. in general, nfl football is merit based. cruz has drastically outplayed manningham. id imagine most teams have a worse player to drop than manningham, or their waiver wire options arent better, but i wouldnt hesitate to drop him for decker (should be long gone), torain, ridley and some others. crabtree is about a toss-up. for now, manningham isnt getting anywhere near my starting lineups.
Boone22
Footballguy
I don't think anyone is saying that Manningham isn't talented. The problem has been lack of focus, incorrect routes, and an occasional case of the dropsies. Manning REALLY needs a go-to receiver. Something he's missed since Steve Smith got injured. It doesn't matter who's listed on the depth chart as the #2 or #3 WR. What matters is who gains Eli's trust the quickest as the most "reliable" WR behind Nicks. And by reliable, I mean, most likely to run the correct route, be where he's suppose to be on the field at the proper time, and who can catch the ball when it gets thrown to him. Now Cruz had some dropies in the preseason but I think his performance in the last two games went a long way to building Eli's trust in him (and confidence in himself). Will it continue? Who knows. But it's an interesting storyline to watch develop. I picked up Cruz off the waiver wire in a Dynasty league a few weeks ago so I'd love to see him take over that trusted "Steve Smith" spot but I still believe that spot is up for grabs between him and Manningham.
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⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
I expected big things. Along with the Philly defense, these are my biggest misses and disappointments.
brednbuddah
Footballguy
dropped him for antonio brown.
Bermuda_Chub
Footballguy
Then Bloom and Dodds are mistaken. Rozz, my fellow Giants fan, put it much better, but our sentiment is the same: MM is be going to given every opportunity to make plays on Sunday. Given the circumstances and the opponent, I expect him to deliver. In fact, I'd be surprised if MM didn't put up better numbers than Nicks this week.
Thankfully, he is my #4 in a league where you can only start 2. I'm on the fence as to whether or not to put in a waiver request for Cruz and drop Manningham. Right now I can afford to have him on the bench but the bye weeks are starting and if I incur an injury at WR, I would have to start him. What bothers me is quite easy to see. He's played in 3 games. 19 targets, 8 receptions, 115 yards. No way to sugar coat those numbers. Trying not to be impatient but......
flooredyas
Footballguy
Looking to add Cruz tonight via waivers and have a plaayoff between them this weekend. Both on the bench. One will go next week.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'm rolling with Manningham this weekend. The rest of the waiver options are weak so here goes nothing. He starts and I won't be surprised if he does anything from 2-21 to 8-100. Cecil likes to talk about clarity on the Audible. We will get some clarity this week I think.
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
Bloom typically plays it safe early in the week until more clarity on the situation shows itself. He will boost him up the list by saturday night once we know how practice is being run.
This is true. I appreciate the insight some of the NYG fans have shared in this thread. Ive adjusted Manningham up to WR3/flex level this week.'Team ROFLCOPTERS said:
Statler & Waldorf
Footballguy
Per Rotoworld:
Following Wednesday's practice, Mario Manningham said he's still in his usual starting spot opposite Hakeem Nicks.
Manningham was benched in favor of Victor Cruz during last week's win over the Cardinals. It looks like he is going to get another chance to keep his job, but a rotation on the outside is a possibility. Manningham is certainly on a short leash as Cruz has simply been the better player this season. Both are risky, albeit high-upside, fantasy plays this week.
http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4654/mario-manningham
Following Wednesday's practice, Mario Manningham said he's still in his usual starting spot opposite Hakeem Nicks.
Manningham was benched in favor of Victor Cruz during last week's win over the Cardinals. It looks like he is going to get another chance to keep his job, but a rotation on the outside is a possibility. Manningham is certainly on a short leash as Cruz has simply been the better player this season. Both are risky, albeit high-upside, fantasy plays this week.
http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4654/mario-manningham
solorca
Footballguy
Thanks for coming in and speaking to your ranking. I use a combination of rankings along with my gut to choose my starters, but your rankings are definitely the ones that hold the most weight for me. Too bad I didn't listen to your advice and start Harvin and Romo over Manningham and Sanchez last week. Eek.
killrobotkill
Footballguy
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
rotoworld
Coordinator Kevin Gilbride sees Victor Cruz progressing at a "very slow" pace."He's getting better and improving a little bit each week," Gilbride said. "You guys [reporters] go from somebody can't do something to all of a sudden he's a superstar. I see very slow, steady improvement, which is great. That's what we're hoping for." Gilbride made it clear Thursday that Mario Manningham remains the starter despite two strong games from Cruz opposite Hakeem Nicks. rotoworld
degenerate
Footballguy
then this:
Mike Garafolo of the Newark Star-Ledger writes that he's "smelling a breakout game" for Mario Manningham in Week 5 against Seattle.
Garafolo points out that the Seahawks' slow-footed, oversized corners have been susceptible to quick outs and slants. He anticipates the Giants sizing up the defense with those kinds of throws, before surprising Seattle with deep shots to Mario. It's all obviously speculation, but makes some sense. The Seahawks defend the run as well as any defense in the NFL, so the Giants may come out of the gates attacking them with the pass.
Mike Garafolo of the Newark Star-Ledger writes that he's "smelling a breakout game" for Mario Manningham in Week 5 against Seattle.
Garafolo points out that the Seahawks' slow-footed, oversized corners have been susceptible to quick outs and slants. He anticipates the Giants sizing up the defense with those kinds of throws, before surprising Seattle with deep shots to Mario. It's all obviously speculation, but makes some sense. The Seahawks defend the run as well as any defense in the NFL, so the Giants may come out of the gates attacking them with the pass.
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/10/giants_eli_manning_sends_his_r.html
Think he goes off today.
Think he goes off today.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
It sure seems to be shaping up that way. I'm teetering on starting him over Decker, Nelson, and Antonio Brown.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
WHAT?!?! You aren't allowed to pick him back up! heh. Im starting him today with confidence ... (with Decker, Gronk, and Olsen). Keeping Finley, Nelson and Knox on the bench (although Im waffling between Nelson and Olsen). I think if Manningham ever is going to have the chance to score some long TDs, this is the week (Im in a distance scoring league). Pressure in NY has to be building on him. Otherwise I feel have to really start looking closer at him and what else is happening there. And he better start running better routes. . . .
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Good article. Thank you.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
It does seem to be lookingthat way. I'm all over the place about starting him over Vincent Jackson. I don't like hearing the talk about Jackson being on a snap count today. Am I crazy?
I think Manningham has a big game, but don't think I could start him over Jackson. I was all set to start Manningham at flex, but then I pulled off a trade this morning for Santonio Holmes. Still leaning towards Manningham, but I love Holmes' matchup. I don't have the balls to start both over Stevie Johnson, although it crossed my mind.
degenerate
Footballguy
manningham over ingram or redman?
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Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
I dropped him earlier in the week for Mike Thomas, but just changed my mind and picked him back up. Would like to put him back in my lineup as I have a feeling he will go off this week. Sometimes guys need a wake-up call to get their head on straight, and I think that's just what last week was for him. Just can't see benching Ridley though as my flex.... Ugh....
