Mario Williams over Vince Young and Bush (1 Viewer)

[bostonfred]

I still stand firm that they made the wrong choice. No need to take Mario at #1 - trade down and get him if need be.

They tried to trade down. Nobody was biting. Which, if you believe that Bush was the correct #1 pick (for New Orleans, if not Houston), really proves that New Orleans made a huge mistake and benefitted from it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

"Yaaaaaay! We don't completely suck anymore. We must have made the right decision after all."

 

[cstu]

One of the ballsy-est calls in football history.

 

[Tyrion]

One of the ballsy-est calls in football history.

They still should have signed Young.

 

[massraider]

These threads can never get bumped enough for me.

Draftniks tend to be an all-knowing, obnoxious lot in general, but the self-assuredness with which people mocked the Texans was absurd.

There's such a long and storied history of the "herd" being wrong, that I wonder how anyone can still be so sure of themselves when evaluating these moves.

 

[NorrisB]

These threads can never get bumped enough for me. Draftniks tend to be an all-knowing, obnoxious lot in general, but the self-assuredness with which people mocked the Texans was absurd. There's such a long and storied history of the "herd" being wrong, that I wonder how anyone can still be so sure of themselves when evaluating these moves.

Another idiotic thread by capella

 

[coolnerd]

These threads can never get bumped enough for me. Draftniks tend to be an all-knowing, obnoxious lot in general, but the self-assuredness with which people mocked the Texans was absurd. There's such a long and storied history of the "herd" being wrong, that I wonder how anyone can still be so sure of themselves when evaluating these moves.

and some team in this year's draft will make a smiliar "mistake" the eyes of draftniks. At the end of the day, while there are some obvious bonehead organizations, the pros are better at this than we are.Of course, if we bump this at the end of 2008 season, the never ending story that is Bush, Young and Mario will point in some other direction.

 

[NorrisB]

Good call Capella

 

[Andy Herron]

I've yet to see enough from Bush or Young to stear me away from Mario, and doubt that I will.

Bush is what he is, nothing great but good.

Don't get me started on Vince Young.

 

[FUBAR]

This will be worse than the Bowie over Jordan selection. The Texans had the #1 pick, two true potential franchise players to choose from one being home grown and they get neither.

won't be as bad as taking Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, and Derrick Thomas...but it might come close

I can't wait until Houston fans petition the CBS affiliate to make them a Titans market instead of a Texans market.At least they can take Adrian Peterson next year. If you miss out on one Texas high school and Big 12 legend, then at least you have another shot the next year. The Texans HAVE TO take a marquee player next year, whether its AP, Calvin Johnson, or even Brady Quinn. They need to energize the fan base something fierce before the fans just stop caring.At least they're assured of selling out one home date a year.

At least Bloom had one decent point, VY would sell tickets. Oddly, so does having a good team

 

[mdog1967]

One of the ballsy-est calls in football history.

Started to give a you a good post sign, then read your first quote, saw the author and I realized your off your rocker to quote an anti Israel nut case who's husband is emphatic that the United States was responsible for the destruction on 911 and not OBL. Thanks for bringing garbage into a Fantasy Football site.Cant

Seem

To

Understand

 

[Buckna]

This will be worse than the Bowie over Jordan selection. The Texans had the #1 pick, two true potential franchise players to choose from one being home grown and they get neither.

won't be as bad as taking Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, and Derrick Thomas...but it might come close

I can't wait until Houston fans petition the CBS affiliate to make them a Titans market instead of a Texans market.At least they can take Adrian Peterson next year. If you miss out on one Texas high school and Big 12 legend, then at least you have another shot the next year. The Texans HAVE TO take a marquee player next year, whether its AP, Calvin Johnson, or even Brady Quinn. They need to energize the fan base something fierce before the fans just stop caring.At least they're assured of selling out one home date a year.

At least Bloom had one decent point, VY would sell tickets. Oddly, so does having a good team

I didn't bother to reread the whole thread, but one of the big arguments for Vince or Reggie was merchandising and selling tickets. Just goes to show you how little people follow the Texans. The Texans have sold out every game since the Mario pick (and since their inception) and in the 2006 season when that post was made the Texans were the 2nd most profitable team in the league.

 

[massraider]

This will be worse than the Bowie over Jordan selection. The Texans had the #1 pick, two true potential franchise players to choose from one being home grown and they get neither.

won't be as bad as taking Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, and Derrick Thomas...but it might come close

I can't wait until Houston fans petition the CBS affiliate to make them a Titans market instead of a Texans market.At least they can take Adrian Peterson next year. If you miss out on one Texas high school and Big 12 legend, then at least you have another shot the next year. The Texans HAVE TO take a marquee player next year, whether its AP, Calvin Johnson, or even Brady Quinn. They need to energize the fan base something fierce before the fans just stop caring.At least they're assured of selling out one home date a year.

At least Bloom had one decent point, VY would sell tickets. Oddly, so does having a good team

I didn't bother to reread the whole thread, but one of the big arguments for Vince or Reggie was merchandising and selling tickets. Just goes to show you how little people follow the Texans. The Texans have sold out every game since the Mario pick (and since their inception) and in the 2006 season when that post was made the Texans were the 2nd most profitable team in the league.

For real.Selling tickets to a pro football team in Texas................not the hardest sell of all time. Good teams sell tickets, drafting Vince because he was local was a really, really dumb concept.

 

[FUBAR]

This will be worse than the Bowie over Jordan selection. The Texans had the #1 pick, two true potential franchise players to choose from one being home grown and they get neither.

won't be as bad as taking Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, and Derrick Thomas...but it might come close

I can't wait until Houston fans petition the CBS affiliate to make them a Titans market instead of a Texans market.At least they can take Adrian Peterson next year. If you miss out on one Texas high school and Big 12 legend, then at least you have another shot the next year. The Texans HAVE TO take a marquee player next year, whether its AP, Calvin Johnson, or even Brady Quinn. They need to energize the fan base something fierce before the fans just stop caring.At least they're assured of selling out one home date a year.

At least Bloom had one decent point, VY would sell tickets. Oddly, so does having a good team

I didn't bother to reread the whole thread, but one of the big arguments for Vince or Reggie was merchandising and selling tickets. Just goes to show you how little people follow the Texans. The Texans have sold out every game since the Mario pick (and since their inception) and in the 2006 season when that post was made the Texans were the 2nd most profitable team in the league.

For real.Selling tickets to a pro football team in Texas................not the hardest sell of all time. Good teams sell tickets, drafting Vince because he was local was a really, really dumb concept.

Although the Lions or Jaguars (not a bad team, but they don't fill to capacity) could probably use a gimmick.

 

[mdog1967]

This will be worse than the Bowie over Jordan selection. The Texans had the #1 pick, two true potential franchise players to choose from one being home grown and they get neither.

won't be as bad as taking Tony Mandarich over Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, and Derrick Thomas...but it might come close

I can't wait until Houston fans petition the CBS affiliate to make them a Titans market instead of a Texans market.At least they can take Adrian Peterson next year. If you miss out on one Texas high school and Big 12 legend, then at least you have another shot the next year. The Texans HAVE TO take a marquee player next year, whether its AP, Calvin Johnson, or even Brady Quinn. They need to energize the fan base something fierce before the fans just stop caring.At least they're assured of selling out one home date a year.

At least Bloom had one decent point, VY would sell tickets. Oddly, so does having a good team

Even Bloom can get it wrong once in a while, unless Mario regresses and Reggie Bush goes super stud. I'm not holding out hope that Vince will ever be that good in the NFL. I was distressed that Texans didn't take him, after watching him last year I've gotten over it.

 

[cstu]

One of the ballsy-est calls in football history.

Started to give a you a good post sign, then read your first quote, saw the author and I realized your off your rocker to quote an anti Israel nut case who's husband is emphatic that the United States was responsible for the destruction on 911 and not OBL. Thanks for bringing garbage into a Fantasy Football site.Cant

Seem

To

Understand

If you're going to call me out, do it in the FFA.

 

[mdog1967]

One of the ballsy-est calls in football history.

Started to give a you a good post sign, then read your first quote, saw the author and I realized your off your rocker to quote an anti Israel nut case who's husband is emphatic that the United States was responsible for the destruction on 911 and not OBL. Thanks for bringing garbage into a Fantasy Football site.Cant

Seem

To

Understand

If you're going to call me out, do it in the FFA.

Call you out in FFA, you got it over in the Shark Pool!!. This is where I come to talk Fantasy Football dude not read commentary on politics. I don't care if your Commie, facist, left, Right, Dem or Republican; I'll listen to anybodies opinion on FFB, I don't like looking at political garbage over in this area.

 

[phthalatemagic]

One of the ballsy-est calls in football history.

Started to give a you a good post sign, then read your first quote, saw the author and I realized your off your rocker to quote an anti Israel nut case who's husband is emphatic that the United States was responsible for the destruction on 911 and not OBL. Thanks for bringing garbage into a Fantasy Football site.Cant

Seem

To

Understand

If you're going to call me out, do it in the FFA.

Call you out in FFA, you got it over in the Shark Pool!!. This is where I come to talk Fantasy Football dude not read commentary on politics. I don't care if your Commie, facist, left, Right, Dem or Republican; I'll listen to anybodies opinion on FFB, I don't like looking at political garbage over in this area.

 

[BINGBING]

Mario Williams has been outplayed by a 4th round DE picked in the same draft. Lets not put him in Canton him just yet.

Elvis Dumervil

29 games

21 sacks

5 forced fumbles

6 fumble recoveries

5 pass deflections

1 INT

Mario Williams

32 games

18.5 sacks

3 forced fumbles

1 fumble recovery

5 pass deflections

0 INT

 

[massraider]

Mario Williams has been outplayed by a 4th round DE picked in the same draft. Lets not put him in Canton him just yet.Elvis Dumervil29 games21 sacks5 forced fumbles 6 fumble recoveries5 pass deflections1 INTMario Williams32 games18.5 sacks3 forced fumbles1 fumble recovery5 pass deflections0 INT

Not really the point.Point is, in hindsight, taking Mario over Vince and Reggie might not have been the dumbest move of all time.

 

[BINGBING]

Mario Williams has been outplayed by a 4th round DE picked in the same draft. Lets not put him in Canton him just yet.Elvis Dumervil29 games21 sacks5 forced fumbles 6 fumble recoveries5 pass deflections1 INTMario Williams32 games18.5 sacks3 forced fumbles1 fumble recovery5 pass deflections0 INT

Not really the point.Point is, in hindsight, taking Mario over Vince and Reggie might not have been the dumbest move of all time.

Show me a 4th round QB in that draft that is outproducing VY and i'll agree that it isn't the point. Mario also got help by the Texans drafting a DT with the 10th pick of the draft last year. VY has no help whatsoever.

 

[Ghost Rider]

While Williams might end up being a better player than both Young and Bush, Houston still didn't get full value for that number one pick (probably just about every other team would have taken Bush or maybe Young). Then again, who knows what teams were trying to trade up to the number one spot, as well as what they were offering, so it is a tough call.

 

[massraider]

Mario Williams has been outplayed by a 4th round DE picked in the same draft. Lets not put him in Canton him just yet.Elvis Dumervil29 games21 sacks5 forced fumbles 6 fumble recoveries5 pass deflections1 INTMario Williams32 games18.5 sacks3 forced fumbles1 fumble recovery5 pass deflections0 INT

Not really the point.Point is, in hindsight, taking Mario over Vince and Reggie might not have been the dumbest move of all time.

Show me a 4th round QB in that draft that is outproducing VY and i'll agree that it isn't the point. Mario also got help by the Texans drafting a DT with the 10th pick of the draft last year. VY has no help whatsoever.

I don't have to show anything, because it wasn't the point of the discussion. You want to make your point, swell. Start an Elvis Dumervill thread. Go nuts.The entire point of bumping the thread, is to point out how absurd people were for roasting the Texans. The pick was roundly criticized, and a lot of people were really, really sure of themselves in knocking the pick. And still, people will cling to the idea that the Texans should have traded down, if they really wanted Mario. Even tho no one, NO ONE, trades for the top pick anymore.Mario has turned into a player, and the Texans are more than happy with the pick. Is it a mortal lock that Mario is a perennial Pro Bowler? Of course not. But telling people to wait and see on Mario is kind of a joke, considering how everyone had decided two days after the draft that the Texans had screwed up.As to the Texans drafting a DT, is that some sort of way to lessen Mario's acheivements? I don't even know what to say to that. 59 tackles and 14 sacks in his second year. The guy was a stud.

 

[Tau837]

Mario Williams has been outplayed by a 4th round DE picked in the same draft. Lets not put him in Canton him just yet.Elvis Dumervil29 games21 sacks5 forced fumbles 6 fumble recoveries5 pass deflections1 INTMario Williams32 games18.5 sacks3 forced fumbles1 fumble recovery5 pass deflections0 INT

I notice you ignored tackles:Williams: 78 solo, 28 assistsDumervil: 47 solo, 10 assistsI guess you don't think tackles are important...Also, are you aware that Williams was named NFL Defensive Lineman of the Year last year? Does Elvis have any such comparable honor? More important than all of that, have you actually seen both of them play? I doubt it, because if you had, I doubt you'd be here saying Elvis has outplayed Mario, because that is completely false.

 

[thayman]

A lot of credit needs to go to the Houston front office over the past few years. They've done an outstanding job.

 

[FUBAR]

Mario Williams has been outplayed by a 4th round DE picked in the same draft. Lets not put him in Canton him just yet.Elvis Dumervil29 games21 sacks5 forced fumbles 6 fumble recoveries5 pass deflections1 INTMario Williams32 games18.5 sacks3 forced fumbles1 fumble recovery5 pass deflections0 INT

I notice you ignored tackles:Williams: 78 solo, 28 assistsDumervil: 47 solo, 10 assistsI guess you don't think tackles are important...Also, are you aware that Williams was named NFL Defensive Lineman of the Year last year? Does Elvis have any such comparable honor? More important than all of that, have you actually seen both of them play? I doubt it, because if you had, I doubt you'd be here saying Elvis has outplayed Mario, because that is completely false.

Oh yeah, well Jared Allen might be better, and if there's a later round pick who's outplayed the #1 overall pick, that #1 pick has to be a bust.

 

[BINGBING]

Mario Williams has been outplayed by a 4th round DE picked in the same draft. Lets not put him in Canton him just yet.Elvis Dumervil29 games21 sacks5 forced fumbles 6 fumble recoveries5 pass deflections1 INTMario Williams32 games18.5 sacks3 forced fumbles1 fumble recovery5 pass deflections0 INT

I notice you ignored tackles:Williams: 78 solo, 28 assistsDumervil: 47 solo, 10 assistsI guess you don't think tackles are important...Also, are you aware that Williams was named NFL Defensive Lineman of the Year last year? Does Elvis have any such comparable honor? More important than all of that, have you actually seen both of them play? I doubt it, because if you had, I doubt you'd be here saying Elvis has outplayed Mario, because that is completely false.

Dumervil is a built for the pass rush and is nowhere near the run-stopper Mario is, but Dumervil also doesn't have the support that Mario has from the rest of the D-Line. Denver didn't put the top DT in the 07' draft next to Dumervil like the Texans did with Mario. That contributed to Mario's numbers increasing as much as anything.

 

[Abraham]

I still can't believe a guy like Dumervil fell so far.

 

[massraider]

Hmm, so Dumervil is one dimensional, yet only has 2.5 more career sacks.

Are we still sure Dumervil has outplayed Mario?

 

[Buckna]

While Williams might end up being a better player than both Young and Bush, Houston still didn't get full value for that number one pick (probably just about every other team would have taken Bush or maybe Young). Then again, who knows what teams were trying to trade up to the number one spot, as well as what they were offering, so it is a tough call.

From the same writer of the article I linked above, Debunking Myths surrounding the No 1 Pick

2. The Texans should have traded out of No. 1 with the Saints and still got Williams.

In reality, Casserly had on-going discussions with the Saints, Titans and Jets. None was willing to deal. New Orleans was content knowing it would take Williams with the second pick and was not willing to give up additional draft choices to move up to take him. Indeed, no team thought enough of Bush's talent to talk trade with Houston.

 

[TheFanatic]

While Williams might end up being a better player than both Young and Bush, Houston still didn't get full value for that number one pick (probably just about every other team would have taken Bush or maybe Young). Then again, who knows what teams were trying to trade up to the number one spot, as well as what they were offering, so it is a tough call.

From the same writer of the article I linked above, Debunking Myths surrounding the No 1 Pick

2. The Texans should have traded out of No. 1 with the Saints and still got Williams.

In reality, Casserly had on-going discussions with the Saints, Titans and Jets. None was willing to deal. New Orleans was content knowing it would take Williams with the second pick and was not willing to give up additional draft choices to move up to take him. Indeed, no team thought enough of Bush's talent to talk trade with Houston.

I get so sick of people saying that this team should have traded down or that team should trade down this year. It doesn't happen very often. I'm trying to think of the last time the 1.1 was moved? Was it to the Rams for Pace?

This is the real NFL playing with real dollars and real players and real signing bonuses. Everyone says that Miami should trade down. I wish my Rams could drop a couple of spots. Not going to happen. But I hope it will...

 

[Tau837]

Oh yeah, well Jared Allen might be better

Yes, Allen might be better today. But, of course, Allen is 26, and just finished his 4th year in the league. Meanwhile, Williams is only 23, and has played just 2 seasons in the NFL. Look at how their careers compare through their first two seasons:Allen - 31 games, 89 tackles (80 solo, 9 assists), 20.0 sacks, 5 passes defensed, 7 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 TDs

Williams - 32 games, 106 tackles (78 solo, 28 assists), 18.5 sacks, 5 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery, 1 TD

Not much difference IMO. And consider this:

He had 4½ sacks and 35 tackles despite a foot injury that prevented him from practicing after Week 7.

"I could easily have said, 'I can't go,' " Williams says. "There were times I was getting two Toradol (pain killer) shots during games just to numb it up so I could do what I could do."

IMO, Mario's play in 2007 is indicative of what you should expect from him going forward.

 

[GregR_2]

While Williams might end up being a better player than both Young and Bush, Houston still didn't get full value for that number one pick (probably just about every other team would have taken Bush or maybe Young). Then again, who knows what teams were trying to trade up to the number one spot, as well as what they were offering, so it is a tough call.

From the same writer of the article I linked above, Debunking Myths surrounding the No 1 Pick

2. The Texans should have traded out of No. 1 with the Saints and still got Williams.

In reality, Casserly had on-going discussions with the Saints, Titans and Jets. None was willing to deal. New Orleans was content knowing it would take Williams with the second pick and was not willing to give up additional draft choices to move up to take him. Indeed, no team thought enough of Bush's talent to talk trade with Houston.

I get so sick of people saying that this team should have traded down or that team should trade down this year. It doesn't happen very often. I'm trying to think of the last time the 1.1 was moved? Was it to the Rams for Pace?

This is the real NFL playing with real dollars and real players and real signing bonuses. Everyone says that Miami should trade down. I wish my Rams could drop a couple of spots. Not going to happen. But I hope it will...

2004. Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, etc.

 

[TheFanatic]

While Williams might end up being a better player than both Young and Bush, Houston still didn't get full value for that number one pick (probably just about every other team would have taken Bush or maybe Young). Then again, who knows what teams were trying to trade up to the number one spot, as well as what they were offering, so it is a tough call.

From the same writer of the article I linked above, Debunking Myths surrounding the No 1 Pick

2. The Texans should have traded out of No. 1 with the Saints and still got Williams.

In reality, Casserly had on-going discussions with the Saints, Titans and Jets. None was willing to deal. New Orleans was content knowing it would take Williams with the second pick and was not willing to give up additional draft choices to move up to take him. Indeed, no team thought enough of Bush's talent to talk trade with Houston.

I get so sick of people saying that this team should have traded down or that team should trade down this year. It doesn't happen very often. I'm trying to think of the last time the 1.1 was moved? Was it to the Rams for Pace?

This is the real NFL playing with real dollars and real players and real signing bonuses. Everyone says that Miami should trade down. I wish my Rams could drop a couple of spots. Not going to happen. But I hope it will...

2004. Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, etc.

Forgot that one. OK, so we have Pace in 1998 or 99 and then Eli/Rivers in 2004. It just doesn't happen all that often.Can someone tell me how many times in the last say 15 years the top 3 picks have changed hands? Better yet, how many times the top 3 picks have changed hands since the Salary Cap era where these guys get huge dollars while never playing a game? I mean it's got to be tough to make a guy like Reggie Bush the highest paid RB in the league even though he has not played a down and has greatly underperformed that salary....

 

[Tau837]

While Williams might end up being a better player than both Young and Bush, Houston still didn't get full value for that number one pick (probably just about every other team would have taken Bush or maybe Young). Then again, who knows what teams were trying to trade up to the number one spot, as well as what they were offering, so it is a tough call.

From the same writer of the article I linked above, Debunking Myths surrounding the No 1 Pick

2. The Texans should have traded out of No. 1 with the Saints and still got Williams.

In reality, Casserly had on-going discussions with the Saints, Titans and Jets. None was willing to deal. New Orleans was content knowing it would take Williams with the second pick and was not willing to give up additional draft choices to move up to take him. Indeed, no team thought enough of Bush's talent to talk trade with Houston.

I get so sick of people saying that this team should have traded down or that team should trade down this year. It doesn't happen very often. I'm trying to think of the last time the 1.1 was moved? Was it to the Rams for Pace?

This is the real NFL playing with real dollars and real players and real signing bonuses. Everyone says that Miami should trade down. I wish my Rams could drop a couple of spots. Not going to happen. But I hope it will...

2004. Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, etc.

Forgot that one. OK, so we have Pace in 1998 or 99 and then Eli/Rivers in 2004. It just doesn't happen all that often.Can someone tell me how many times in the last say 15 years the top 3 picks have changed hands? Better yet, how many times the top 3 picks have changed hands since the Salary Cap era where these guys get huge dollars while never playing a game? I mean it's got to be tough to make a guy like Reggie Bush the highest paid RB in the league even though he has not played a down and has greatly underperformed that salary....

The Falcons/Chargers deal (Vick, LT) was in 2001.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Mario Williams has been outplayed by a 4th round DE picked in the same draft. Lets not put him in Canton him just yet.Elvis Dumervil29 games21 sacks5 forced fumbles 6 fumble recoveries5 pass deflections1 INTMario Williams32 games18.5 sacks3 forced fumbles1 fumble recovery5 pass deflections0 INT

I notice you ignored tackles:Williams: 78 solo, 28 assistsDumervil: 47 solo, 10 assistsI guess you don't think tackles are important...Also, are you aware that Williams was named NFL Defensive Lineman of the Year last year? Does Elvis have any such comparable honor? More important than all of that, have you actually seen both of them play? I doubt it, because if you had, I doubt you'd be here saying Elvis has outplayed Mario, because that is completely false.

 

[TheFanatic]

While Williams might end up being a better player than both Young and Bush, Houston still didn't get full value for that number one pick (probably just about every other team would have taken Bush or maybe Young). Then again, who knows what teams were trying to trade up to the number one spot, as well as what they were offering, so it is a tough call.

From the same writer of the article I linked above, Debunking Myths surrounding the No 1 Pick

2. The Texans should have traded out of No. 1 with the Saints and still got Williams.

In reality, Casserly had on-going discussions with the Saints, Titans and Jets. None was willing to deal. New Orleans was content knowing it would take Williams with the second pick and was not willing to give up additional draft choices to move up to take him. Indeed, no team thought enough of Bush's talent to talk trade with Houston.

I get so sick of people saying that this team should have traded down or that team should trade down this year. It doesn't happen very often. I'm trying to think of the last time the 1.1 was moved? Was it to the Rams for Pace?

This is the real NFL playing with real dollars and real players and real signing bonuses. Everyone says that Miami should trade down. I wish my Rams could drop a couple of spots. Not going to happen. But I hope it will...

2004. Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, etc.

Forgot that one. OK, so we have Pace in 1998 or 99 and then Eli/Rivers in 2004. It just doesn't happen all that often.Can someone tell me how many times in the last say 15 years the top 3 picks have changed hands? Better yet, how many times the top 3 picks have changed hands since the Salary Cap era where these guys get huge dollars while never playing a game? I mean it's got to be tough to make a guy like Reggie Bush the highest paid RB in the league even though he has not played a down and has greatly underperformed that salary....

The Falcons/Chargers deal (Vick, LT) was in 2001.

So it happens every couple of years but not since 2004. Interesting. I guess we're due. I wonder though with the way the 1.1 signing bonus has gone through the roof if there will be less and less of this. For instance, I remember Pace signing what was called a $36 million deal by those idiots the Postons but the contract was really only for about $18 million with the rest being unrealistic incentives (I think there was a $5 million bonus if Pace was the SB MVP which has never happened to a lineman and other ridiculous incentives). That was $18 million over 5 or 6 years. Now the total value of the contract signed by Pace with the ridiculous incentives is just the singing bonus

 

[Liquid Tension]

These threads can never get bumped enough for me. Draftniks tend to be an all-knowing, obnoxious lot in general, but the self-assuredness with which people mocked the Texans was absurd. There's such a long and storied history of the "herd" being wrong, that I wonder how anyone can still be so sure of themselves when evaluating these moves.

Another idiotic thread by capella

I do think Bush will be better this year though.Bottom line it is very hard to be so absolute in your draft mistakes or good moves. Every year the team that gets the A is the team that had a lot of early picks and took the consensus "good" players.The Dolphins were killed for Ted Ginn, but I think he looked good later in the year. He is a little stiff, but his hands were really good last year and his speed is excellent. Maybe he wasn't worth the spot, but if he is a good receiver it wasa decent pick.Teams that had 2 picks in the 1st day rarely get an A yet they might have made the best picks. I would like to see a 3 years later reviews of drafts.

 

[coolnerd]

Trading down articles.

Peter King from a year ago

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...ing/04/08/mmqb/

Summary of a long ish article on the economics of the draft

http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2005...mics_of_nf.html

ESPN from this year

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/colu...&id=3267103

Most relevant info for this conversasion from link above

In 2003, the Saints sent the 17th and 18th choices as part of a package to Arizona for a package that included the sixth pick. New Orleans drafted Georgia defensive tackle Johnathan Sullivan, who was out of the league after 16 starts and three NFL seasons.

Also in 2003, the Jets traded the 13th and 22nd picks as part of a package to Chicago for the fourth overall choice. The Jets drafted defensive lineman Dewayne Robertson, a durable starter who hasn't become an impact player.

In 2005, Minnesota traded receiver Randy Moss to the Raiders for the seventh and 219th choices, plus linebacker Napoleon Harris. The Vikings used the seventh choice for receiver Troy Williamson, who has three touchdown catches in three seasons and appears finished in Minnesota.

Those deals were the exceptions.

No team has traded into the top 10 picks in the last two drafts. And no team since 1999 has traded into the top five overall spots from lower in the draft. (note from C-nerd: he overlooked the Jets/Bears trade from his own article)

Five teams moved into the top five picks from 1993 to 1997, the first five years of NFL free agency in its current form.

 

[Buckna]

Even though Mario and the Texans had a big week and Bush and the Saints got embarrassed, I'll still say the same thing I've said in countless other threads like this one since they took Mario:It's way too early to tell.~snip~

I still agree with this.Sacks are a sexy stat and hard to predict year to year like TD's, what happens this time next year if Mario slumps and only gets 7 sacks in '08? If Reggie stays healthy all season and catches 100 balls? The Titans squeek into the playoffs again?Still, we can argue that Mario has shown those flashes of greatness that made the Texans pick him. Finishing the season as the AFC sack leader in your 2nd year is dang impressive. At least some of the detractors have backed off for now.

 

[Tau837]

Even though Mario and the Texans had a big week and Bush and the Saints got embarrassed, I'll still say the same thing I've said in countless other threads like this one since they took Mario:

It's way too early to tell.

~snip~

I still agree with this.Sacks are a sexy stat and hard to predict year to year like TD's, what happens this time next year if Mario slumps and only gets 7 sacks in '08? If Reggie stays healthy all season and catches 100 balls? The Titans squeek into the playoffs again?

Still, we can argue that Mario has shown those flashes of greatness that made the Texans pick him. Finishing the season as the AFC sack leader in your 2nd year is dang impressive. At least some of the detractors have backed off for now.

And IMO the bolded accomplishment is especially impressive considering he was only 22 when he did it.

 

[Abraham]

While Williams might end up being a better player than both Young and Bush, Houston still didn't get full value for that number one pick (probably just about every other team would have taken Bush or maybe Young). Then again, who knows what teams were trying to trade up to the number one spot, as well as what they were offering, so it is a tough call.

From the same writer of the article I linked above, Debunking Myths surrounding the No 1 Pick

2. The Texans should have traded out of No. 1 with the Saints and still got Williams.

In reality, Casserly had on-going discussions with the Saints, Titans and Jets. None was willing to deal. New Orleans was content knowing it would take Williams with the second pick and was not willing to give up additional draft choices to move up to take him. Indeed, no team thought enough of Bush's talent to talk trade with Houston.

I get so sick of people saying that this team should have traded down or that team should trade down this year. It doesn't happen very often. I'm trying to think of the last time the 1.1 was moved? Was it to the Rams for Pace?

This is the real NFL playing with real dollars and real players and real signing bonuses. Everyone says that Miami should trade down. I wish my Rams could drop a couple of spots. Not going to happen. But I hope it will...

2004. Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, etc.

Forgot that one. OK, so we have Pace in 1998 or 99 and then Eli/Rivers in 2004. It just doesn't happen all that often.Can someone tell me how many times in the last say 15 years the top 3 picks have changed hands? Better yet, how many times the top 3 picks have changed hands since the Salary Cap era where these guys get huge dollars while never playing a game? I mean it's got to be tough to make a guy like Reggie Bush the highest paid RB in the league even though he has not played a down and has greatly underperformed that salary....

The Falcons/Chargers deal (Vick, LT) was in 2001.

So it happens every couple of years but not since 2004. Interesting. I guess we're due. I wonder though with the way the 1.1 signing bonus has gone through the roof if there will be less and less of this. For instance, I remember Pace signing what was called a $36 million deal by those idiots the Postons but the contract was really only for about $18 million with the rest being unrealistic incentives (I think there was a $5 million bonus if Pace was the SB MVP which has never happened to a lineman and other ridiculous incentives). That was $18 million over 5 or 6 years. Now the total value of the contract signed by Pace with the ridiculous incentives is just the singing bonus

Not since 2001. In 2004, a player (not the #1 pick) was traded.

 

[Raider Nation]

Who would have thought that by 2011, only Williams would still be with the team which drafted him.

 

[modogg]

Who would have thought that by 2011, only Williams would still be with the team which drafted him.

nice find with this thread bud. it is pretty crazy remembering how much hate the Texans took during this draft

 

[Raider Nation]

Who would have thought that by 2011, only Williams would still be with the team which drafted him.

nice find with this thread bud. it is pretty crazy remembering how much hate the Texans took during this draft

So who gets the credit for the Mario pick? Bob McNair wanted Young and I heard Casserly wanted Bush.

 

[sihaokills]

Good job by the Texans

 

[-jb-]

Who would have thought that by 2011, only Williams would still be with the team which drafted him.

In a position he wasn't drafted for.New Bruce Smith? Doubt it.

 

[GregR]

Who would have thought that by 2011, only Williams would still be with the team which drafted him.

nice find with this thread bud. it is pretty crazy remembering how much hate the Texans took during this draft

So who gets the credit for the Mario pick? Bob McNair wanted Young and I heard Casserly wanted Bush.

It was Gary Kubiak's call, though Casserly says he wanted Mario as well.Casserly tells the tale as the two of them agonized for days over whether to take Bush or Mario. And finally Casserly told Kubiak it was time for a decision, and Kubiak said let's take Williams.I don't think I've ever heard local Houston media think it was Casserly's call. In fact they've stated pretty vociferously the opposite. Only the national media seemed to gush over Casserly as if he was anything other than a lame duck. One who knew the only reason he was kept under contract during the draft was so other teams couldn't pay him to come in as a consultant and have him share what he knew of Kubiak's plans.

 

[Kree]

Who would have thought that by 2011, only Williams would still be with the team which drafted him.

In a position he wasn't drafted for.New Bruce Smith? Doubt it.

Is that meant to be an indictment on Williams talent as a DE? Hardly see the point of the argument when it has pretty much 0 to do with Williams' himself.

 

[massraider]

Who would have thought that by 2011, only Williams would still be with the team which drafted him.

In a position he wasn't drafted for.New Bruce Smith? Doubt it.

I am not a fan of this move. Has there ever been a 3-4 LB this size, let alone an effective one? Even if it works out, I STILL think it's a waste. Stud 3-4 LBs come out every year, you can find them. 6'7", 290 lb 4-3 DEs that can play the run and the pass great? Not so much?

If I was Mario, I would be looking to exit Houston ASAP. Sucks, because I love reading the Bush/Young backers sucking on their words, and I root for Houston to do well.

Hope I am wrong, but I cannot see Mario ever being close to as good a LB as he is a DE.