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Mark Ingram (4 Viewers)

Penguin said:
Andy Benoit‏Verified account @Andy_Benoit 33m33 minutes ago

#Saints Notes: Likely that Adrian Peterson supplants Ingram atop RB order. Peterson fits Saints ground game perfectly.
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As long as they aren't counting on Peterson in pass protection much it should be alright I guess.

 
Penguin said:
Andy Benoit‏Verified account @Andy_Benoit 33m33 minutes ago

#Saints Notes: Likely that Adrian Peterson supplants Ingram atop RB order. Peterson fits Saints ground game perfectly.
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Hmmmmmm...I believe this as much as those C. Hyde is going to be cut rumors ;). If you believe this, you might want to invest in a wizzinator...oh wait that was another form Viking RB  :lmao:

 
Chaka said:
Kamara doesn't possess the ability to make Ingram worthless. 
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Not alone, but combined with Peterson it is possible. If Peterson gets like 50% of the rushing and most of the GL work, Karama gets 10% of the rushing and is the primary pass catching back, that leaves Ingram as a man without a route to fantasy points. 

 
Convince me why Ingram can be an attractive play this year. As the lead/primary back in NO over the past few years, he was limited not so much by talent, but opportunity -- the team is pass-first, he only got 20 carries once last year IIRC, and the HC and offensive plan has shown they will do everything to NOT maximize his usage and ability over the last year or two when he was the defacto lead runner. Now with ADP and flashy new rookie, I just can't see this as an improved situation for INgram.

Understand that I am a huge fan of Ingram's. I think he is criminally underused, and all of the frustration he has voiced over the last 2 years is 200% deserved. I think he has solid talent as both a runner and receiver, and is the kind of back who benefits from being fed the ball.

But that didn't happen over the last few years, and the situation looks that much bleaker in terms of Ingram being able to be given the opportunity to really do what he can do.

Would love to have his upside, but I don't trust the team at all to use him properly and am staying away despite the fact that I think he is a great talent.

 
Ilov80s said:
Not alone, but combined with Peterson it is possible. If Peterson gets like 50% of the rushing and most of the GL work, Karama gets 10% of the rushing and is the primary pass catching back, that leaves Ingram as a man without a route to fantasy points. 
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I don't see it playing out like that. Ingram has been just as productive on a per touch basis as Peterson for a few seasons now (2013?). And Ingram represents the Saints only triple-threat at RB which has a lot of value to game planning.

I think Peterson comes out strong vs Minny but shortly after that I think Ingram will continue to be the Saints most productive back.

I could be wrong, Peterson was (is?) special. Maybe he can recapture the magic.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Convince me why Ingram can be an attractive play this year. As the lead/primary back in NO over the past few years, he was limited not so much by talent, but opportunity -- the team is pass-first, he only got 20 carries once last year IIRC, and the HC and offensive plan has shown they will do everything to NOT maximize his usage and ability over the last year or two when he was the defacto lead runner. Now with ADP and flashy new rookie, I just can't see this as an improved situation for INgram.

Understand that I am a huge fan of Ingram's. I think he is criminally underused, and all of the frustration he has voiced over the last 2 years is 200% deserved. I think he has solid talent as both a runner and receiver, and is the kind of back who benefits from being fed the ball.

But that didn't happen over the last few years, and the situation looks that much bleaker in terms of Ingram being able to be given the opportunity to really do what he can do.

Would love to have his upside, but I don't trust the team at all to use him properly and am staying away despite the fact that I think he is a great talent.
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It's based on a few things:

1. I have got him in late round 6, early round 7. 

2. It doesn't take many touches to be valuable in New Orleans. 

3. There is the chance that Peterson doesn't have much left and there is a chance that Kamara isn't ready to be a big piece yet. If either of those events is true, Ingram has a valuable role as either the primary GL/early down back or as the primary pass catching back. He is the only back with the versatility on that team to handle all the roles so he has more paths to viability. 

 
Chaka said:
I don't see it playing out like that. Ingram has been just as productive on a per touch basis as Peterson for a few seasons now (2013?). And Ingram represents the Saints only triple-threat at RB which has a lot of value to game planning.

I think Peterson comes out strong vs Minny but shortly after that I think Ingram will continue to be the Saints most productive back.

I could be wrong, Peterson was (is?) special. Maybe he can recapture the magic.
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Right, I am pro-Ingram, just saying there is a chance Ingram gets squeezed into a spot that's not good for fantasy. I think he's better than Peterson at the between the tackles role and better than Kamara at the receiver role. Peterson was better and Karama probably will be better, but Ingram is right now. 

 
Ilov80s said:
It's based on a few things:

1. I have got him in late round 6, early round 7. 

2. It doesn't take many touches to be valuable in New Orleans. 

3. There is the chance that Peterson doesn't have much left and there is a chance that Kamara isn't ready to be a big piece yet. If either of those events is true, Ingram has a valuable role as either the primary GL/early down back or as the primary pass catching back. He is the only back with the versatility on that team to handle all the roles so he has more paths to viability. 
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Good luck on that happening often.

 
This guy tortured me last year and I really want no part of him or Payton's shenanigans. 

That said, I had to rely on him as a #2 RB. 

This year, it looks like he can be had in the 5th-6th round. Value seems pretty good. If I could get him as my #3 or #4 RB due to last year's hate (and mine) I think I'd bite.

 
Ilov80s said:
It's based on a few things:

1. I have got him in late round 6, early round 7. 

2. It doesn't take many touches to be valuable in New Orleans. 

3. There is the chance that Peterson doesn't have much left and there is a chance that Kamara isn't ready to be a big piece yet. If either of those events is true, Ingram has a valuable role as either the primary GL/early down back or as the primary pass catching back. He is the only back with the versatility on that team to handle all the roles so he has more paths to viability. 
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I guess my point is that with limited touches, Ingram really hasn't done a whole lot over the last few years and had not been given the opportunity to do more, and not sure that changes in any way this year. If anything, he was in a better position in years past, and didn't get the chance, and this was without a potential rookie looking to make a great start in the league for himself or aging star looking to reclaim the last gasp of glory.

I love Ingram, but can't put a lot of stock in him last year given track record of the past, and with an arguable trickier situation given talent around him.

 
hoffman0001 said:
hmmmmmmmmm....your right. 1300+ yards and 10 TD's last year. Yep....he has not done much  :lmao:
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You're actually helping to illustrate my point. You clearly didn't own him last year -- despite his performance, there was not one game owners could be confident that Ingram was going to be the main tool of the Saints running attack. Given the maddening propensity for Payton to split reps with Hightower and even Cadet, especially where Ingram had shown he could handle the load (short yardage, red zone, etc.) or even benching Ingram for stretches outright, Ingram likely would have cracked 10 TDs on the ground alone and have racked up far more yardage. 

Now with arguable better talent around him (instead of a journeyman #2 and a scatback, he has a quality rookie and one of the all time greats at the position vying for carries) are you more excited about his prospects? Nothing tells me Payton is going to shed his apparent hate and all of the sudden give Ingram more opportunity. Highly doubt he will be given the opportunity to carry the bulk of the distribution this year, and gladly bet you the under against last years stats.

Again, this is a back I really like and believe in his talent -- but the opportunity is even smaller this year, IMO, and would rather take upside on a guy like Lacy, West, Powell, Gore and CJ then go through the miserable time owning Ingram was last year.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
You clearly didn't own him last year -- despite his performance, there was not one game owners could be confident that Ingram was going to be the main tool of the Saints running attack.
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Do you know what happens when you ASSume? I did have him in MANY leagues. 

"there was not one game owners could be confident"

That's YOUR opinion. I used him all the time, and he was a solid. In 12 games out of 17 he produced Solid numbers as a #2 RB, which is what he should have been drafted for. If he was inconsistent is was because the Saints got in games where they had to play from behind, clearly that was no this fault or due to his production, but was a result of a poor defense. 

In PPR leagues he was a top 10 back. You can't claim that a top 10 back did not "do much",. 

 
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Ilov80s said:
He's averaged high end RB2, low end RB1 numbers for 3 years straight. If that's being bitten then I like I guess I like it rough. 
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8 100 yd games in the last 3 yrs

Avg 7 tds per yr last 3 yrs

By my count he had more than 10 pts in ppr 5 times last yr in 17 games

Single digits carries 5 times last yr, more than 4 catches three times

 
One area that I think Ingram has a significant advantage over Peterson as far as getting playing time is his pass blocking, and to some degree his ability as a receiver as well.

I do think Peterson has lost a step. He was so good at his peak however, that Peterson can likely afford to lose a few steps of ability and still be a very good runner. 

It is really really hard for me to bet against Peterson.

However due to the difference in pass protection I can see Ingram earning more playing time as a result of it.

The way Payton has used Ingram in the past gives me pause as well. The coach just does not want to commit to him, I do not really know why just that this has happened repeatedly.

I am less concerned about Kamara eating into Ingrams opportunity as a receiver, because of the likely difference in pass protection.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Convince me why Ingram can be an attractive play this year. As the lead/primary back in NO over the past few years, he was limited not so much by talent, but opportunity -- the team is pass-first, he only got 20 carries once last year IIRC, and the HC and offensive plan has shown they will do everything to NOT maximize his usage and ability over the last year or two when he was the defacto lead runner. Now with ADP and flashy new rookie, I just can't see this as an improved situation for INgram.

Understand that I am a huge fan of Ingram's. I think he is criminally underused, and all of the frustration he has voiced over the last 2 years is 200% deserved. I think he has solid talent as both a runner and receiver, and is the kind of back who benefits from being fed the ball.

But that didn't happen over the last few years, and the situation looks that much bleaker in terms of Ingram being able to be given the opportunity to really do what he can do.

Would love to have his upside, but I don't trust the team at all to use him properly and am staying away despite the fact that I think he is a great talent.
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couldn't have said it better!!  It's a shame though-the under usage of Ingram in his prime.

 
Biabreakable said:
One area that I think Ingram has a significant advantage over Peterson as far as getting playing time is his pass blocking, and to some degree his ability as a receiver as well.

I do think Peterson has lost a step. He was so good at his peak however, that Peterson can likely afford to lose a few steps of ability and still be a very good runner. 

It is really really hard for me to bet against Peterson.

However due to the difference in pass protection I can see Ingram earning more playing time as a result of it.

The way Payton has used Ingram in the past gives me pause as well. The coach just does not want to commit to him, I do not really know why just that this has happened repeatedly.

I am less concerned about Kamara eating into Ingrams opportunity as a receiver, because of the likely difference in pass protection.
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Ingram may be one of the top eight receiving backs in the league. AP put together a season with 40 catches and another with 43 but has really never been more than an average receiver, at best.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Convince me why Ingram can be an attractive play this year. As the lead/primary back in NO over the past few years, he was limited not so much by talent, but opportunity -- the team is pass-first, he only got 20 carries once last year IIRC, and the HC and offensive plan has shown they will do everything to NOT maximize his usage and ability over the last year or two when he was the defacto lead runner. Now with ADP and flashy new rookie, I just can't see this as an improved situation for INgram.

Understand that I am a huge fan of Ingram's. I think he is criminally underused, and all of the frustration he has voiced over the last 2 years is 200% deserved. I think he has solid talent as both a runner and receiver, and is the kind of back who benefits from being fed the ball.

But that didn't happen over the last few years, and the situation looks that much bleaker in terms of Ingram being able to be given the opportunity to really do what he can do.

Would love to have his upside, but I don't trust the team at all to use him properly and am staying away despite the fact that I think he is a great talent.
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20 carries once. 20 touches four times and another four with 17-19 touches.  He averaged 15.6 touches per game.

 
If I'm projecting numbers I'm going with similar touches as last year. 32 year old AP, having barely played the last 3 years, doesn't change his role imo. 

 
Chaka said:
Ingram may be one of the top eight receiving backs in the league. AP put together a season with 40 catches and another with 43 but has really never been more than an average receiver, at best.
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He doesn't run that good of routes and doesn't seem to have the same feel for the receiving game as a lot of RB do.

In press conference with Pat Shurmur recently he is talking about the screen game and that this requires some level of deception for it to really work. No defense was being fooled into thinking Peterson might not be getting the ball. So this element of surprise essential to effective screen passes not really happening with Peterson.

The two seasons when Peterson had a lot of receptions was with Favre who was going off script all the time.

 
You can bet your ### if Peterson is not injured Peyton will give Peterson all goaline carries and grind it out yardage.  It's well known Ingram screwed Peyton's wife or something and Peyton hates his ####### guts

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
8 100 yd games in the last 3 yrs

Avg 7 tds per yr last 3 yrs

By my count he had more than 10 pts in ppr 5 times last yr in 17 games

Single digits carries 5 times last yr, more than 4 catches three times
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Receiving yards and TDs don't count in your league? You are also failing to account for him missing 7 games over the last 3 years. His per game numbers over the last 3 years are among the best in the NFL. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Receiving yards and TDs don't count in your league? You are also failing to account for him missing 7 games over the last 3 years. His per game numbers over the last 3 years are among the best in the NFL. 
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All those  games last yr with single digit pt total in ppr ...

 
Ilov80s said:
It's based on a few things:

1. I have got him in late round 6, early round 7. 

2. It doesn't take many touches to be valuable in New Orleans. 

3. There is the chance that Peterson doesn't have much left and there is a chance that Kamara isn't ready to be a big piece yet. If either of those events is true, Ingram has a valuable role as either the primary GL/early down back or as the primary pass catching back. He is the only back with the versatility on that team to handle all the roles so he has more paths to viability. 
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Those are strong arguments, and I have seen him in round 6 and 7 as well.

But I think he's typically going near the top of the 6th round, around the CJ Anderson/Spencer Ware types of RB's. It may come down to how much you like the WR/TE's that are going in the 6th and 7th rounds though. I would just rather end up with one of Snead/Fitz/Benjamin/Graham in the 6th and Woodhead/Martin in the 7th rather than getting Ingram in the 6th and one of Corey Davis/Emmanual Sanders/DaVante Parker/Eifert in the 7th.

* All the ADP's reflected here are MFL10(which is ppr) from the past 2+ weeks. REAL MONEY LEAGUES, NO MOCKS!

 
Just looking at this from a consistency perspective, he was indeed wildly inconsistent last year. In PPR, 43.75% of the time he put up RB1 numbers. 56.25% of the time however, he didn't even crack top 24. That will drive people crazy.

I'm torn because I do think Ingram could be amazing value at his current RB3/flex price tag in PPR, mostly because I think he's better than both AP and Kamara. In PPR specifically, I'm very curious as to how Cadet's targets are absorbed and can see Ingram being leaned on even more in the passing game. But, I'm afraid of what we've all witnessed, Peyton's reluctance to lean on Ingram when he's performing well. 

 
SameSongNDance said:
Just looking at this from a consistency perspective, he was indeed wildly inconsistent last year. In PPR, 43.75% of the time he put up RB1 numbers. 56.25% of the time however, he didn't even crack top 24. That will drive people crazy.

I'm torn because I do think Ingram could be amazing value at his current RB3/flex price tag in PPR, mostly because I think he's better than both AP and Kamara. In PPR specifically, I'm very curious as to how Cadet's targets are absorbed and can see Ingram being leaned on even more in the passing game. But, I'm afraid of what we've all witnessed, Peyton's reluctance to lean on Ingram when he's performing well. 
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And Lord help him if he fumbles one time

 
SameSongNDance said:
Just looking at this from a consistency perspective, he was indeed wildly inconsistent last year. In PPR, 43.75% of the time he put up RB1 numbers. 56.25% of the time however, he didn't even crack top 24. That will drive people crazy.

I'm torn because I do think Ingram could be amazing value at his current RB3/flex price tag in PPR, mostly because I think he's better than both AP and Kamara. In PPR specifically, I'm very curious as to how Cadet's targets are absorbed and can see Ingram being leaned on even more in the passing game. But, I'm afraid of what we've all witnessed, Peyton's reluctance to lean on Ingram when he's performing well. 
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Which is funny because the 2 years prior he was super consistent and everyone's complaint was that he never had big weeks. He had some monster weeks in 2017.

 
Long time Ingram owner here.  I'm not sure what to make of him.  I know last year that by about week 8 or so I stopped putting him in the lineup consistently.  I was lucky and got his huge week later in the season.  I feel that way about him this year.  I'll hold for now, but I'm not sure I see him in the line up much.  Even if AP gets hurt.  Peyton will find a way to reduce his carries.

 
Just getting back into research mode. This guy is the most frustrating dude to own for a variety of reasons. 

What may help is he has probably burned many owners in redrafts so that may let him slip.

 
need2know said:
And that was before saints added AP and kamara
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Yup. If I were drafting him I will have gone for all other positions already and am reaching for RB's. Would have to get AP as well - I'm not sure where he's going right now. These things are probably not possible where they are getting drafted.

I only had him last year and hated having the guy. I went to the Seahawks Saints game where he fumbled on first drive and watched him sit the rest of the day. He died that day to me :lol:

Have no clue why he signed with the Saints.

 
Alvin Kamara? Really? Guy rushes for 600 yards with 35 catches per year at at Tennessee and now he's going to steal significant touches from a legitimate triple-threat like Ingram? 

Not seeing it.

 
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