Marshall speculation post Henne? (1 Viewer)

[robertd52]

So Marshall owners or people that know something about Moore, whats your thoughts on Marshall for rest of year?

If I recall correctly Moore has started a few games in his career, but we dont have a big sample size to work from. I do know he has a couple 300/3td games in his history, but he also has some 40 attempts for 180 yard games as well. I find that interesting...

On Sunday Henne went down during the second drive of the game so we have a bit of a sample size there. Funny enough, at that time Marshall had ZERO targets. He ended the day with 8 (on 26 passes from Moore). That alone is at least somewhat encouraging.

I have the Sunday Ticket rewind of the Miami game coming up that I am going to watch closer and ill post back anything I see to help others figure out what we can looking forward (both for buyers and sellers). I do know that Marshall dropped a deep ball that would have made his 5 for 52 stat line a lot better.

For people trying to sell, I think we are screwed. For buyers, could be a decent time to get a guy that generally does what he has been doing (without hopefully dropping so damn many).

Anyone else have any good insight on the matter?

 

[GoBirds]

He is my WR2 and I just made an offer for Wallace as I hate relying on these WR with bum QB's.Have Julio on the bench also who might be better going forward, but yes I am worried.

 

[gbill2004]

Marshall's numbers will only increase with Garrard/Moore at the helm.

 

[az_prof]

Marshall's numbers will only increase with Garrard/Moore at the helm.

Marshall seems to get looks no matter who is his QB is--Cutler, Orton, Henne. I am not worried.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Julio's numbers will be vastly superior to Marshall's the rest of the way. Wouldn't be stunned if his numbers were better than Whites too. Going to end the year with some of the best rookie wr numbers ever

 

[robertd52]

First thing I noticed on game film is Marshalls first catch (and target) was half way through the second quarter! And he ended up with 8 total.

I see that as a good thing, im sure the fish were not trying to air it out as much as possible to start and finally just said #### it and let Moore throw.

With two weeks of practice and an inexperienced guy playing QB the previous poster may be right...maybe Marshall ends up with Moore targets, not less (see what I did there ). At least one can hope....

Correct me if im wrong, but Moore was the only QB in years (before Cam) that made Steve Smith even midly usable right? Basically over targeted Smith if I recall correctly?

 

[robertd52]

He is my WR2 and I just made an offer for Wallace as I hate relying on these WR with bum QB's.Have Julio on the bench also who might be better going forward, but yes I am worried.

I gotta imagine the Wallace owner will tell you to get bent considering Wallace has been better even prior to Henne going down. If he takes it, I want in a league with that guy!

 

[GoBirds]

Sorry I wasn't clear....offered Best for Wallace.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

So Marshall owners or people that know something about Moore, whats your thoughts on Marshall for rest of year?

If I recall correctly Moore has started a few games in his career, but we dont have a big sample size to work from. I do know he has a couple 300/3td games in his history, but he also has some 40 attempts for 180 yard games as well. I find that interesting...

On Sunday Henne went down during the second drive of the game so we have a bit of a sample size there. Funny enough, at that time Marshall had ZERO targets. He ended the day with 8 (on 26 passes from Moore). That alone is at least somewhat encouraging.

I have the Sunday Ticket rewind of the Miami game coming up that I am going to watch closer and ill post back anything I see to help others figure out what we can looking forward (both for buyers and sellers). I do know that Marshall dropped a deep ball that would have made his 5 for 52 stat line a lot better.

For people trying to sell, I think we are screwed. For buyers, could be a decent time to get a guy that generally does what he has been doing (without hopefully dropping so damn many).

Anyone else have any good insight on the matter?

Henne went down on almost the first play of that drive. I wouldn't put any stock in the zero targets. I would however question why Marshall has dropped 3 Touchdown passes and other passes as well. He is amongst the league leaders in dropped balls.

The drop off IMO though from Henne to Moore is not that much so maybe you want to take some solace in that.

 

[Papa Georgio]

So Marshall owners or people that know something about Moore, whats your thoughts on Marshall for rest of year?

If I recall correctly Moore has started a few games in his career, but we dont have a big sample size to work from. I do know he has a couple 300/3td games in his history, but he also has some 40 attempts for 180 yard games as well. I find that interesting...

On Sunday Henne went down during the second drive of the game so we have a bit of a sample size there. Funny enough, at that time Marshall had ZERO targets. He ended the day with 8 (on 26 passes from Moore). That alone is at least somewhat encouraging.

I have the Sunday Ticket rewind of the Miami game coming up that I am going to watch closer and ill post back anything I see to help others figure out what we can looking forward (both for buyers and sellers). I do know that Marshall dropped a deep ball that would have made his 5 for 52 stat line a lot better.

For people trying to sell, I think we are screwed. For buyers, could be a decent time to get a guy that generally does what he has been doing (without hopefully dropping so damn many).

Anyone else have any good insight on the matter?

Henne went down on almost the first play of that drive. I wouldn't put any stock in the zero targets. I would however question why Marshall has dropped 3 Touchdown passes and other passes as well. He is amongst the league leaders in dropped balls.

The drop off IMO though from Henne to Moore is not that much so maybe you want to take some solace in that.

MOP I know you are a Dolphin fan so I am sure that you saw how brutal 2 of those throws were. Henne looks pretty decent moving the ball down the field but must tighten up around the redzone, because his passes in that area are either off target or mis-timed.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

MOP I know you are a Dolphin fan so I am sure that you saw how brutal 2 of those throws were. Henne looks pretty decent moving the ball down the field but must tighten up around the redzone, because his passes in that area are either off target or mis-timed.

I don't disagree but Marshall dropped a pretty easy ball against San Diego this past week. He does it constantly but yes Henne doesn't always put it right on the money, agreed.Edit to add: PG, I also see that Bess is on the list fairly high as well. You have to wonder if Henne is the common denominator there or is it that Henne's WRs simply are not that good. I saw Bess drop some routine balls this year but again if both are near the top you might think Henne has something to do with it.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Pass Dropped



tBrandon MarshallMia 5

1tRoddy WhiteAtl 5

3tDavone BessMia 4

3tDwayne BoweKC 4

3tMichael CrabtreeSF 4

3tMontario HardestyCle 4

7tArrelious BennTB 3

7tDallas ClarkInd 3

7tJermaine GreshamCin 3

7tDeSean JacksonPhi 3

7tMohamed MassaquoiCle 3

7tRay RiceBal 3

7tLaurent RobinsonDal 3

7tDane SanzenbacherChi 3

7tSteve SmithCar 3

7tBenjamin WatsonCle 3



Almost all these guys have some of the worst starting QBs in the NFL

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I'm very excited, as a Marshall owner, that Luck may land in Miami at this rate.

New coach, great QB prospect. Marshall would jump up into the top-5 WR's, production-wise, immediately.

 

[jbz]

Henne throws it hard on every throw, regardless of situation or distance. If Moore has even slightly better than Henne in the red zone in this regard, I think Marshall does fine. Targets won't be an issue and he'll get the TDs that have eluded him.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Only reason tds have eluded him is because he can't catch

 

[Peeps Inc.]

Sage Rosenfels will be signed by the Dolphins and only have eyes for Marshall

 

[jbz]

Only reason tds have eluded him is because he can't catch

I dunno, he might drop some, but I've seen at least 5 attempts Henne has tried to throw to him in the endzone that just had zero chance of getting completed because of where/how the ball was thrown. Marshall #6 in the NFL in targets so I think he's still got good potential.

 

[GCP]

Some of these "drops" are tipped by cornerbacks before they are getting to him, specifically the one against the Browns two weeks ago in the end zone. Joe Haden tipped or otherwise distracted Brandon from making that play. It was good defense, not a drop.

This week, however, Marshall had a bad game. He dropped a key 3rd and 4 out pattern for no apparent reason then lost a bomb that may have been a 70 yard TD in the sun. He doesn't seem to be mentally engaged in the game. When you see Steve Smith pop up from a catch, he's fired up, dancing, yelling. Marshall has no animation, no emotion.

I still consider him a WR3 going forward, but that's all.

 

[need2know]

Some of these "drops" are tipped by cornerbacks before they are getting to him, specifically the one against the Browns two weeks ago in the end zone. Joe Haden tipped or otherwise distracted Brandon from making that play. It was good defense, not a drop.This week, however, Marshall had a bad game. He dropped a key 3rd and 4 out pattern for no apparent reason then lost a bomb that may have been a 70 yard TD in the sun. He doesn't seem to be mentally engaged in the game. When you see Steve Smith pop up from a catch, he's fired up, dancing, yelling. Marshall has no animation, no emotion.I still consider him a WR3 going forward, but that's all.

a wr3 huh? play in a nice 8 team league do you? Marshall's bad game is 5 rec for 50 yards. thats what you hope to get from most WR3s. hes not a WR1, but a solid WR2 with upside to be a WR1 sometimes. your opinion is

 

[tikitime]

Some of these "drops" are tipped by cornerbacks before they are getting to him, specifically the one against the Browns two weeks ago in the end zone. Joe Haden tipped or otherwise distracted Brandon from making that play. It was good defense, not a drop.This week, however, Marshall had a bad game. He dropped a key 3rd and 4 out pattern for no apparent reason then lost a bomb that may have been a 70 yard TD in the sun. He doesn't seem to be mentally engaged in the game. When you see Steve Smith pop up from a catch, he's fired up, dancing, yelling. Marshall has no animation, no emotion.I still consider him a WR3 going forward, but that's all.

a wr3 huh? play in a nice 8 team league do you? Marshall's bad game is 5 rec for 50 yards. thats what you hope to get from most WR3s. hes not a WR1, but a solid WR2 with upside to be a WR1 sometimes. your opinion is

For what its worth, Dodds has him as a WR3, out of top 25 in 250 forward.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

Marshall's numbers will only increase with Garrard/Moore at the helm.

Marshall seems to get looks no matter who is his QB is--Cutler, Orton, Henne. I am not worried.

Yes exactly. Has this guy ever played with a quality QB? How much of a downgrade is Moore from Henne? Not much I hope. One thing I do know from watching Moore in the past-dude is an athlete.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Marshall's numbers will only increase with Garrard/Moore at the helm.

Marshall seems to get looks no matter who is his QB is--Cutler, Orton, Henne. I am not worried.

Yes exactly. Has this guy ever played with a quality QB? How much of a downgrade is Moore from Henne? Not much I hope. One thing I do know from watching Moore in the past-dude is an athlete.

Does Cutler not even qualify as a "quality QB" anymore, in his Denver days at least? Is that where most people are with him now? Man.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

Marshall's numbers will only increase with Garrard/Moore at the helm.

Marshall seems to get looks no matter who is his QB is--Cutler, Orton, Henne. I am not worried.

Yes exactly. Has this guy ever played with a quality QB? How much of a downgrade is Moore from Henne? Not much I hope. One thing I do know from watching Moore in the past-dude is an athlete.

Does Cutler not even qualify as a "quality QB" anymore, in his Denver days at least? Is that where most people are with him now? Man.

True. I'll agree with you there. Cutler, when he played in Denver was a quality QB.I suppose an argument could be made he was quality bc he was playing with Marshall. Anyway, I like BMarsh. I think his targets will be there. Troubling to hear people talk about all of these drops though..

 

[mrspree15]

So now Sage Rosenfels is in the fold.

Looking at his starts way back in the Houston and Miami days, AJ, Kevin Walter and Chris Chambers produced good numbers most of time. Seems like Marshall would be fine (or even better) with Sage in there.

 

[FantasyTrader]

So now Sage Rosenfels is in the fold.Looking at his starts way back in the Houston and Miami days, AJ, Kevin Walter and Chris Chambers produced good numbers most of time. Seems like Marshall would be fine (or even better) with Sage in there.

My thinking as well. Sage was a QB without a job for a reason. He can't read a defense to save his life and seemed to invent new ways weekly to snatch defeat from the jaws of success while filling in for Schaub when he was injured. That being said, the ball generally goes where he intends to throw it. This is a GOOD thing for Brandon Marshall even though Miami will still suck.

 

[DocHolliday]

The question is does Sage have any value? Seems like a long shot to me but you have to ask the question.

 

[Abraham]

The question is does Sage have any value? Seems like a long shot to me but you have to ask the question.

No you don't.

 

[JFurby]

With two weeks of practice and an inexperienced guy playing QB the previous poster may be right...maybe Marshall ends up with Moore targets, not less (see what I did there ). At least one can hope....Correct me if im wrong, but Moore was the only QB in years (before Cam) that made Steve Smith even midly usable right? Basically over targeted Smith if I recall correctly?

Good post. The dolphins offense will be better with Matt Moore and Daniel Thomas carrying the load than the opening day combo of Henne/Bush. If healthy, Marshall will be a top 10 WR as long as Moore and Thomas are healthy too.

 

[GCP]

The problem no one has mentioned is that Marshall is not playing well at all.

 

[Phil4]

Can it be worse than Henne ? This duo is really not a good one. Marshall's ceiling with Henne is lower IMO. Good news for him

 

[Peeps Inc.]

Sage Rosenfels will be signed by the Dolphins and only have eyes for Marshall

i'm half way there

 

[glumpy]

Correct me if im wrong, but Moore was the only QB in years (before Cam) that made Steve Smith even midly usable right? Basically over targeted Smith if I recall correctly?

Delhomme

 

[DocHolliday]

The question is does Sage have any value? Seems like a long shot to me but you have to ask the question.

No you don't.

You are correct. I have to ask the question even though I think I gave away my thoughts. Marshall is struggling. Maybe the QB change will do him some good. It is not like Henne was helping Marshall.

 

[Warpig]

I think people may be missing he big picture here regarding Marshall. Sparano is on his way out the door. We all know what happens to players when there is turnover at the HC position...they always wanna bring in their guys.

Marshall has a history of being a head case and being a pain to deal with. Add to that his off the field issues and lapses in concentration on the field with all the dropped balls in key moments. I fear that a new coach won't tolerate that stuff and Marshall may wind up being jettisoned, or buried on a depth chart.

He's probably 1 more incident away from being suspended too if he can't find a way to avoid the drama that seems to follow him.

I've been trying to trade him away, but I can't get any kind of value at all for him so I'm afraid I'm forced to hold. But if I get anything even remotely fair in value, I'm shipping him off.

 

[mcintyre1]

I think people may be missing he big picture here regarding Marshall. Sparano is on his way out the door. We all know what happens to players when there is turnover at the HC position...they always wanna bring in their guys.

Marshall has a history of being a head case and being a pain to deal with. Add to that his off the field issues and lapses in concentration on the field with all the dropped balls in key moments. I fear that a new coach won't tolerate that stuff and Marshall may wind up being jettisoned, or buried on a depth chart.

He's probably 1 more incident away from being suspended too if he can't find a way to avoid the drama that seems to follow him.

I've been trying to trade him away, but I can't get any kind of value at all for him so I'm afraid I'm forced to hold. But if I get anything even remotely fair in value, I'm shipping him off.

That's just ludicrous. Marshall would be the instant #1 receiver on nearly any team he went to.

 

[Warpig]

I think people may be missing he big picture here regarding Marshall. Sparano is on his way out the door. We all know what happens to players when there is turnover at the HC position...they always wanna bring in their guys.

Marshall has a history of being a head case and being a pain to deal with. Add to that his off the field issues and lapses in concentration on the field with all the dropped balls in key moments. I fear that a new coach won't tolerate that stuff and Marshall may wind up being jettisoned, or buried on a depth chart.

He's probably 1 more incident away from being suspended too if he can't find a way to avoid the drama that seems to follow him.

I've been trying to trade him away, but I can't get any kind of value at all for him so I'm afraid I'm forced to hold. But if I get anything even remotely fair in value, I'm shipping him off.

That's just ludicrous. Marshall would be the instant #1 receiver on nearly any team he went to.

Arizona - Atlanta -

Baltimore - Probably not, but debatable

Buffalo - Maybe

Carolina -

Cleveland - Yes

Cincinnati - (AJ Green)

Chicago - Yes

Dallas -

Denver - Maybe

Detroit -

Green Bay -

Houston -

Indianapolis -

Jacksonville - Yes

Kansas City - Maybe

Minnesota - Maybe (Percy Harvin?)

New Orleans -

New England - (Wes Welker)

New York Jets -

New York Giants -

Oakland - Maybe (more than likely )

Philly - No

Pittsburgh - No

San Diego - No

San Fran - Probably (Crabtree?)

Seattle - No

St. Louis - Yes

Tampa Bay - No

Tennessee - No

Washington - Maybe (Santan Moss?)

Ludicrous? You think too highly of Marshall. It's been almost 2 years since his haydays in Denver.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

I think people may be missing he big picture here regarding Marshall. Sparano is on his way out the door. We all know what happens to players when there is turnover at the HC position...they always wanna bring in their guys.

Marshall has a history of being a head case and being a pain to deal with. Add to that his off the field issues and lapses in concentration on the field with all the dropped balls in key moments. I fear that a new coach won't tolerate that stuff and Marshall may wind up being jettisoned, or buried on a depth chart.

He's probably 1 more incident away from being suspended too if he can't find a way to avoid the drama that seems to follow him.

I've been trying to trade him away, but I can't get any kind of value at all for him so I'm afraid I'm forced to hold. But if I get anything even remotely fair in value, I'm shipping him off.

That's just ludicrous. Marshall would be the instant #1 receiver on nearly any team he went to.

Arizona - Atlanta -

Baltimore - Probably not, but debatable

Buffalo - Maybe

Carolina -

Cleveland - Yes

Cincinnati - (AJ Green)

Chicago - Yes

Dallas -

Denver - Maybe

Detroit -

Green Bay -

Houston -

Indianapolis -

Jacksonville - Yes

Kansas City - Maybe

Minnesota - Maybe (Percy Harvin?)

New Orleans -

New England - (Wes Welker)

New York Jets -

New York Giants -

Oakland - Maybe (more than likely )

Philly - No

Pittsburgh - No

San Diego - No

San Fran - Probably (Crabtree?)

Seattle - No

St. Louis - Yes

Tampa Bay - No

Tennessee - No

Washington - Maybe (Santan Moss?)

Ludicrous? You think too highly of Marshall. It's been almost 2 years since his haydays in Denver.

No doubt on the fact that he is always in danger of blowing a gasket. but I think you evaluations (though i appreciate the fact that you took the time to put it together) are way off. In my mind he would no doubt be the top dog in wash, tenn, TB, seattle, SF, OAK, NYJ, NO, Cinc, Carolina. I don't doubt the guy is a jerk, but his talent is undeniable.

 

[Buckna]

I think people may be missing he big picture here regarding Marshall. Sparano is on his way out the door. We all know what happens to players when there is turnover at the HC position...they always wanna bring in their guys.

Marshall has a history of being a head case and being a pain to deal with. Add to that his off the field issues and lapses in concentration on the field with all the dropped balls in key moments. I fear that a new coach won't tolerate that stuff and Marshall may wind up being jettisoned, or buried on a depth chart.

He's probably 1 more incident away from being suspended too if he can't find a way to avoid the drama that seems to follow him.

I've been trying to trade him away, but I can't get any kind of value at all for him so I'm afraid I'm forced to hold. But if I get anything even remotely fair in value, I'm shipping him off.

Marshall is due $9M guaranteed in 2012. Little chance of them parting ways with him for at least another season, IMO.

 

[Abraham]

Marshall has a history of being a head case and being a pain to deal with. Add to that his off the field issues and lapses in concentration on the field with all the dropped balls in key moments. I fear that a new coach won't tolerate that stuff and Marshall may wind up being jettisoned, or buried on a depth chart

Uh, no. He's one of the ten or twelve most physically gifted receivers in the league. He's realtively young, has shown he can perform very well despite never having played with a top-tier QB, and has not been a distraction in over a year IIRC. Brandon Marshall being on the roster is one of the reasons the job will be appealing to a new coach.

 

[need2know]

Marshall has a history of being a head case and being a pain to deal with. Add to that his off the field issues and lapses in concentration on the field with all the dropped balls in key moments. I fear that a new coach won't tolerate that stuff and Marshall may wind up being jettisoned, or buried on a depth chart

Uh, no. He's one of the ten or twelve most physically gifted receivers in the league. He's realtively young, has shown he can perform very well despite never having played with a top-tier QB, and has not been a distraction in over a year IIRC. Brandon Marshall being on the roster is one of the reasons the job will be appealing to a new coach.

agree. I have marshall and Henne going on IR does't really bother me. Hes not that special and whatever QB is playing will get the ball to marshall. I am concerned with the team being 0-4. I hope they stay motivated to play being a bottom 5 team, I really expected them to a .500 team, the defense has taken a huge step back. Marshall will stay in my lineup as long as hes playing....

 

[amaizingblu]

Anyone have some early thoughts/projections for Marshall vs. Revis? He scored 2 of his TD's last year vs. the Jets (10/166/1 - no Revis) and (2/16/1 - Revis dressed/played didn't record any stats). I just can't help but think this is a really bad match-up for him.

 

[jonboltz]

Anyone have some early thoughts/projections for Marshall vs. Revis? He scored 2 of his TD's last year vs. the Jets (10/166/1 - no Revis) and (2/16/1 - Revis dressed/played didn't record any stats). I just can't help but think this is a really bad match-up for him.

It is the worst possible match-up of his entire year--until week 17 when he faces Revis again. Luckily he doesn't have to face him twice during the normal fantasy year. I'm sitting him this week (between Marshall, Jordy, and Pettigrew) in my PPR.

 

[footballnerd]

Anyone have some early thoughts/projections for Marshall vs. Revis? He scored 2 of his TD's last year vs. the Jets (10/166/1 - no Revis) and (2/16/1 - Revis dressed/played didn't record any stats). I just can't help but think this is a really bad match-up for him.

new QB too, not looking good. I'll be making room for one of the flavors of the week later today.

 

[amaizingblu]

I have to start him.... 16 team league and only 4 total bench spots. My WR corp's is Fitz/Marshall/Garcon and Fitz is on a bye.

He's much bigger than Revis (6'4" vs. 5'11") so hopefully he snag a "jump ball" or two. :wishfulthinking:

 

[TheFanatic]

Moore had a really nice set of games fighting with Delhomme for the starting job. When it was given to him, he couldn't do anything with it. Like he can fight for it, but once it's his he can't perform. That seems like the situation he's in now. I don't see Sage being that much of a threat to him and he could do what he did before and suck now that he has the starting job. That tells me to leave Marshall on the bench for a while. I'll wait to see him build his timing and rapport with Moore before I start him, although bye weeks and injuries could change that.

 

[bonesman]

Julio's numbers will be vastly superior to Marshall's the rest of the way. Wouldn't be stunned if his numbers were better than Whites too. Going to end the year with some of the best rookie wr numbers ever

pump your breaks, homie.

 

[FDC]

Moore played his first 2 games last year terribly (under a coach with 1 foot out the door) and Smitty went 8 for 141 and 2 TDs while he was in. Moore came back, played decent against San Fran and got hurt again and was out for the year. Rivera and Chud are hired, Moore is a free agent, and Newton falls into their lap and fits Chud's scheme perfect. Its not like we have ever seen any sort of offensive wisdom in Miami (see Bush + Henne). I think the jury is still out on Moore. I'd lean to starting Marshall until we see otherwise (unless you have a high WR2 to replace him).

 

[jonboltz]

Absolutely perplexed by how high Marshall is rated this week in early projections.

 

[amaizingblu]

Absolutely perplexed by how high Marshall is rated this week in early projections.

Me too, but others (ESPN - 87yds/1TD) have him projected even higher than FBG's. I hope they're right, but I'm tempering my expectations.

 

[need2know]

Absolutely perplexed by how high Marshall is rated this week in early projections.

Me too, but others (ESPN - 87yds/1TD) have him projected even higher than FBG's. I hope they're right, but I'm tempering my expectations.

I am starting him, but not expecting much. Maybe he shows out and has a good game on MNF