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Marvel Cinematic Universe - Loved Thunderbolts*! - Also Marvel Trivia May 5th at 9 EST on FootballGuys (7 Viewers)

Ok so then her whole redemption arc in the final episode was a waste of time 
Everyone knew that WandaVision was leading into MoM so at a minimum her arc wasn’t meant to be completed in WandaVision.  In fact, her full transformation into Scarlet Witch only happened in the final episode.  And Scarlet Witch isn’t a straight up superhero, she operates in more of a gray area.

Plus Wanda’s motivation for a family didn’t end just because she freed the townspeople from the hex.  She just had to defeat Agatha from taking her chaos magic

 
Most of us who have seen the movie disagree with the reviews. I enjoyed it.
I thought it was very good. Darker tone than normal for Marvel but it worked in this movie. Visuals were worth seeing in a theater - Marvel threw us a few bones with new characters and call back. Not sure I’ll go again in the theater but I may - which says I liked it.

 
Random MCU thoughts:

MoM:

Enjoyed it. Felt very Sam Raimi and that's a good thing for those of us who enjoy his work.

In the absence of Stan Lee, I'd like to see Bruce Campbell be given a random cameo in every MCU movie going forward. No logic to that notion. I just think it'd be fun.

Final cut of MoM was supposedly reduced by roughly 30 minutes from Raimi's initial version. I would like to see the more meaty version as I would suspect (hope) that we get more development on Wanda's rationalization for her actions. As is, we get the shortened: "because this, then this" -- and I know there's a convenient argument regarding the Darkhold's impact -- but based on Wanda's full character development to this point in the MCU, it felt like we should have seen some more internal conflict.

Wong is a joy. And I want to know why he was training Abomination in Shang Chi. Seriously. If he has access to a Hulk-level super soldier, why not sparky-circle Abomination into the fight with the big bad in MoM?

Earlier discussion on power level convenience is spot on. The disparity in power levels between Captain Marvel & Wanda (& Thor) vs the vast majority of the MCU is massive and becomes problematic in storytelling. [It's the age old Superman problem. "Let's have Supe fight ___ this issue." "Okay, so what happens on Page 2?"] I think they handle it as well as possible. It's just a challenge for writers.

Moon Knight:

Very enjoyable. Below Loki and WandaVision, but considerably above FAWS (the disappointing dredge of the MCU). 

Oscar Isaac is fantastic. Ethan Hawke also excellent.

Grateful for the post-credits capper of the series. Felt like a massive hole until the final 30 seconds where you can say, "okay, glad they finally addressed that."

Thor LaT:

Bring it on.
Wong was fighting Abomination in that movie - it was a MMA type tournament 

 
MoM rocked for me. I'm not a huge Marvel geek but my wife is. I liked the first Dr. Strange alot. This one I did not know what was going on sometimes but I knew enough to know that Wanda is not a nice lady. I saw the first couple of Wanda's when it was like the #### van Dyke show but that was about it.

Scarlet Witch was, well, a real ##### and just goes to show you that magic helps when it comes to fighting.

 
I love all things Marvel, but this was meh IMO. Very dark as others have said, not a lot of humor, and i think not having a major villain didn't help. Glad I saw it, but the first one was like 10x better. 

 
ffmail4me said:
I love all things Marvel, but this was meh IMO. Very dark as others have said, not a lot of humor, and i think not having a major villain didn't help. Glad I saw it, but the first one was like 10x better. 
The Scarlet Witch was the major villain?

 
Trailer for She Hulk is out. CGI for her looks horrendous. Almost looks like Fiona from Shrek.

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
Wong was fighting Abomination in that movie - it was a MMA type tournament 
I did not realize that was the villian from the original Hulk.  I may have to go back and re-watch Hulk.

 
I thought MoM was a bit campy.  Reminded me a lot of Army of Darkness, beyond just Campbell.  There is the evil book, transporting across time (or universes, I guess), and especially the demons flying around.  It wasn't a bad flick by any means, but it wasn't my favorite.

 
In the version I watched, she was the villain (until the end when she realized the error of her ways). Maybe there's different movies in different multi-verses though. 


In the movie I watched, the "hero" was utterly helpless, embarassingly ineffective, very un-hero like.... and the happy ending only came when Wanda chose to be the hero using her Scarlet Witch powers.

Indeed seems we watched different movies.

 
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In the movie I watched, the "hero" was utterly helpless, very un-hero like.... and the happy ending only came when Wanda chose to be the hero using her Scarlet Witch powers.

Indeed seems we watched different movies.
Dr. Strange was the one who told America to wait and keep the portal open, because he deduced that the kids reaction to the monster she had become may snap her out of it - and that's what happened. I'm not sure how any of that took away from the fact that in 99% of the movie the Scarlet With was the villain which was all I said. 

 
Dr. Strange was the one who told America to wait and keep the portal open, because he deduced that the kids reaction to the monster she had become may snap her out of it - and that's what happened. I'm not sure how any of that took away from the fact that in 99% of the movie the Scarlet With was the villain which was all I said. 


99% of the movie didn't seem to have a hero and we all knew Wanda would be it.  :shrug:

 
Because they are both green and female?  Unless John Byrne draws her, I suspect that would be said no matter what they did.

 
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Because they are both green and female?  Unless John Byrne draws her, I suspect that would be said no matter what they did.
It’s not that but you really are a Disney fan, aren’t you? I feel like I see you reply to every not amazing review.

I think that they tried to make the She-Hulk still be pretty and that scene I mentioned above really made me think of Shrek just in terms of the color/smoothness/texture and hair. Hair more like the prince and Farqaad.

Also, I’d say Fiona has a much different body shape than She-Hulk and completely different hair so not a green female comparison. More of a CGI treatment similarity.

 
I don't think the Disney+ shows have the same budget as the films, so I'd expect lesser special effects/CGI.

She-Hulk is a dumb character to me anyway in that it just seems so unnecessary to have a female Hulk. Given Tim Roth and Mark Ruffalo's appearances it has potential to be a decent show at least. 

 
I don't think the Disney+ shows have the same budget as the films, so I'd expect lesser special effects/CGI.

She-Hulk is a dumb character to me anyway in that it just seems so unnecessary to have a female Hulk. Given Tim Roth and Mark Ruffalo's appearances it has potential to be a decent show at least. 


I'll probably give it a chance, but am not expecting much. I'm hoping it will be a straight comedy with little or no connection to the franchise.

 
That CGI is really bad. I don't think most people comparing it to Fiona are talking about character design, moreso that it looks like they copy pasted a character from a kids completely CGI animated movie into a "real world" setting. The incongruousness is jarring. There's some uncanny valley happening as well.

 
I feel like Marvel is starting to go in for a rough patch. The Eternals was trash. The only Marvel movie I have only watched once... and I will not watch it again... I almost didn't make it through watching it the first time... and none of my family made it through. They got up and left or fell asleep.

From the trailer, She-Hulk looks like it will be trash too. I have enjoyed the Marvel Disney+ series but if the CGI is what we saw there then there is no way that this show will be anywhere near decent. It will not matter how well the writing, directing, acting, production in every other sense is... it will be horrible. 

Some future projects look questionable with a high probability of at best being not interesting downwards to being trash as well. 

 
I feel like Marvel is starting to go in for a rough patch. The Eternals was trash. The only Marvel movie I have only watched once... and I will not watch it again... I almost didn't make it through watching it the first time... and none of my family made it through. They got up and left or fell asleep.

From the trailer, She-Hulk looks like it will be trash too. I have enjoyed the Marvel Disney+ series but if the CGI is what we saw there then there is no way that this show will be anywhere near decent. It will not matter how well the writing, directing, acting, production in every other sense is... it will be horrible. 

Some future projects look questionable with a high probability of at best being not interesting downwards to being trash as well. 
The Eternals was not good - although the two after-credit scenes “saved” it.

However whether you (in the general sense) personally liked No Way Home or Multiverse of Madness - both have been huge box office successes and Thor looks like it will continue that trend. There’s always been a few clunker movies mixed in with all the very good ones - Marvel has a lot to live up to so there will be disappointed people that want another Infinity War, forgetting the road to get there was long and a little bumpy at times.

 
I feel like Marvel is starting to go in for a rough patch. The Eternals was trash. The only Marvel movie I have only watched once... and I will not watch it again... I almost didn't make it through watching it the first time... and none of my family made it through. They got up and left or fell asleep.

From the trailer, She-Hulk looks like it will be trash too. I have enjoyed the Marvel Disney+ series but if the CGI is what we saw there then there is no way that this show will be anywhere near decent. It will not matter how well the writing, directing, acting, production in every other sense is... it will be horrible. 

Some future projects look questionable with a high probability of at best being not interesting downwards to being trash as well. 
Guys, CGI is rarely finished until right before release. It’s not atypical to have CGI not look great in trailers.

 
I feel like Marvel is starting to go in for a rough patch. The Eternals was trash. The only Marvel movie I have only watched once... and I will not watch it again... I almost didn't make it through watching it the first time... and none of my family made it through. They got up and left or fell asleep.

From the trailer, She-Hulk looks like it will be trash too. I have enjoyed the Marvel Disney+ series but if the CGI is what we saw there then there is no way that this show will be anywhere near decent. It will not matter how well the writing, directing, acting, production in every other sense is... it will be horrible. 

Some future projects look questionable with a high probability of at best being not interesting downwards to being trash as well. 
I agree. I don’t think any of the new characters/movies that aren’t Avenger related are catchy. I know Shang-Chi got great reviews and while I felt like I was watching How to Train Your Dragon battle scene, I enjoyed it. I just can’t say I’m stoked for the next one. Eternals was garbage and Black Widow was OK. Even in the shows, Moon Knight had promise as seen in The Batman like trailer, but it fell short and I couldn’t care if there’s a follow up or not. Hawkeye, Loki and Wanda were great but again the old guard.

I’ll absolutely watch Thor in the theaters but I’ll wait for the next Shang-Chi and Eternals to come to D+.

The Eternals was not good - although the two after-credit scenes “saved” it.

However whether you (in the general sense) personally liked No Way Home or Multiverse of Madness - both have been huge box office successes and Thor looks like it will continue that trend. There’s always been a few clunker movies mixed in with all the very good ones - Marvel has a lot to live up to so there will be disappointed people that want another Infinity War, forgetting the road to get there was long and a little bumpy at times.
Box office success for those was expected. Pent up movie demand and again, Avenger related characters. It feels like they know the Avengers stuff will slowly go away as the Falcon and WS sure didn’t hook people in with the show, but their new things may not be grabbing people nearly as much.

 
How would she not be a villain in MoM? She literally killed innocents just to try to get her way.  
Well yeah, she of course WAS the villain, but I mean in the comic book world (and i grew up collecting like so many that love these movies) she really ISN'T a villain and I think all marvel movies are better when you've got a great villain. 

 
How would she not be a villain in MoM? She literally killed innocents just to try to get her way.  
Well yeah, she of course WAS the villain, but I mean in the comic book world (and i grew up collecting like so many that love these movies) she really ISN'T a villain and I think all marvel movies are better when you've got a great villain. 
A little spoilery here so stop reading if you want to avoid MoM comments:

I much prefer the way the comic books handled the Scarlett Witch, especially considering the emphasis placed on mental health now. In the comics she had a mental break coupled with depression, but was able to come back from the brink - much like in WandaVision. I was hoping in MoM she would be able to have a completely redemptive arch from the WV days, but instead they went with the Darkhold corrupting her, resulting in the need for her death. Now I don't think her death is permanent, I think perhaps another universe's Wanda ends up in "our" universe, so there is still a chance she can be a full hero again.  Just disappointed somewhat with how things ended with her. I really expected her to unite with the White Vision we saw at the end of WV, so I'm not sure what will come of that.

Agree that the better the villain, the better the story. Part of the problem with going cosmic is that the villains all have to be huge, and that takes some of the humanity out of the stories. I think Spiderman may end up back more as a "ground level" hero. Kang I think will be the big villain and we'll see how that goes compared to Thanos.

 
Just seen MoM and not great IMO. Trailer for Thor was part of the previews and it didn't look that great either. Hopefully they did that on purpose to not spoil the movie, but I agree with most everyone here that Marvel is going through a rough patch. Not sure if it is because they are running out of ideas or because they seem to want to be in theaters every 3 months so they are pushing out content too fast. 

So far for phase 4

Movies

Black Widow = average

Shang chi = average

Eternals = awful

Spider-man = awesome

Dr. Strange = below average

TV shows

Wandavision = very good

Falcon and Winter solider = slightly below average

Loki = awesome

What if = got 2 episodes in and couldn't watch anymore. Might need to revisit, but for now is awful

Hawkeye = haven't seen, but heard it was good

Moon Knight = haven't seen, but heard it is awesome. 

After the previous 10 years this is sub par work for Marvel. It looks like Thor and Black Panther are the next two movies to be released. If they both disappoint I am pretty sure we will be waiting for Marvel movies to be streamed instead of going to the theaters to see them. 

 
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Just seen MoM and not great IMO. Trailer for Thor was part of the previews and it didn't look that great either. Hopefully they did that on purpose to not spoil the movie, but I agree with most everyone here that Marvel is going through a rough patch. Not sure if it is because they are running out of ideas or because they seem to want to be in theaters every 3 months so they are pushing out content too fast. 

So far for phase 4

Movies

Black Widow = average - Agree (if you mean average for a Marvel movie, I think it is better than a lot of other movies)

Shang chi = average - I actually thought this was pretty good

Eternals = awful - only Marvel thing I haven't seen

Spider-man = awesome - Agree

Dr. Strange = below average - I gave it a B-

TV shows

Wandavision = very good - I had this at Awesome, like Loki

Falcon and Winter solider = slightly below average - Agree

Loki = awesome - Agree

What if = got 2 episodes in and couldn't watch anymore. Might need to revisit, but for now is awful - This series is redeemed by the last 2 episodes, which were really good.  The overall series was disappointing

Hawkeye = haven't seen, but heard it was good - Agree, probably would put in the really good range

Moon Knight = haven't seen, but heard it is awesome. - This is what I thought was average as best.

After the previous 10 years this is sub par work for Marvel. It looks like Thor and Black Panther are the next two movies to be released. If they both disappoint I am pretty sure we will be waiting for Marvel movies to be streamed instead of going to the theaters to see them. 
Responses in bold above

 
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I liked both Eternals and Dr Strange MoM better than Spider man or Black widow by quite a bit.

Those movies seemed to take more risks in straying from the traditional marvel formula.  I was disappointed with spider man and thought black widow sucked.

I hope marvel does not get scared from venturing from the same film every time.

 
I feel like Marvel is starting to go in for a rough patch. The Eternals was trash. The only Marvel movie I have only watched once... and I will not watch it again... I almost didn't make it through watching it the first time... and none of my family made it through. They got up and left or fell asleep.

From the trailer, She-Hulk looks like it will be trash too. I have enjoyed the Marvel Disney+ series but if the CGI is what we saw there then there is no way that this show will be anywhere near decent. It will not matter how well the writing, directing, acting, production in every other sense is... it will be horrible. 

Some future projects look questionable with a high probability of at best being not interesting downwards to being trash as well. 


The Critical Drinker sums up She-Hulk pretty nicely:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9O7kt7I384

 
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