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Mass Shooting at Orlando Nightclub (1 Viewer)

[icon] said:
So this was an automatic weapon, now? 

Please show your work, or stop saying ignorant ####. TIA
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I don't care about your silly labels.  It was a gun designed to kill lots of people quickly that was accessible by a nutcase.

 
[icon] said:
So this was an automatic weapon, now? 

Please show your work, or stop saying ignorant ####. TIA
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In his defense, there are numerous modifications to make an AR-15 automatic.  Of course, if it's by the TRIGGER it's illegal and you could spend numerous years in jail, but that doesn't keep criminals or terrorists from doing it.  You can essentially make it auto with a stock modification.  I also think it's been modified because he shot 100 freaking people.  Not possible with a semi auto without help IMO

 
Koya said:
Come on, no bull#### here - there is a strong virulent strain of hate (especially toward the LGBT community) from large swarths of certain religious groups - the reality is the Christian Zealot shares more with the Muslim (and Jewish) Zealot than they do with the mainstream of those within that umbrella religious group.

That said, when a ####### LT GOVERNOR is tweeting that the 50 dead deserved this (and make no bones about it, "Reap what you sow" in this context is 100% that, unless he clearly states otherwise ASAP), you expect me to suggest this is a small isolated sect?  When you see actual legislation that demeans and dehumanizes the LGBT community, based again on religious ideology and theology, you want me to just think it's a small component of certain Christian groups / denominations?

I believe we have come to a point where the burden no longer is on the shoulders of those trying to prove the dangers of homo/transphobic rhetoric and inciteful language but rather on those who continue to propogate the hate and even those who seem to suggest that its not "representative" - because its representative of far, far too much already.

Now, do you ####### stand against Lt Patrick and Robertson and the millions that follow, or do you stand with it? No more middle ground.
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No bull#### here either. You're as bad as anyone claiming any Muslim supports terrorism. Don't be the guy you hate. Rip the person making the comments; not a group you feel are associated with the comment. 

 
dschuler said:
In his defense, there are numerous modifications to make an AR-15 automatic.  Of course, if it's by the TRIGGER it's illegal and you could spend numerous years in jail, but that doesn't keep criminals or terrorists from doing it.  You can essentially make it auto with a stock modification.  I also think it's been modified because he shot 100 freaking people.  Not possible with a semi auto without help IMO
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Not sure about the last part. 

 
Why do we need high capacity magazines for guns?  I heard a report that said these wackos can kill so many people in part because of all the rounds they can fire before they having to reload.  Getting rid of these things seems a no-brainer to me.

 
dschuler said:
In his defense, there are numerous modifications to make an AR-15 automatic.  Of course, if it's by the TRIGGER it's illegal and you could spend numerous years in jail, but that doesn't keep criminals or terrorists from doing it.  You can essentially make it auto with a stock modification.  I also think it's been modified because he shot 100 freaking people.  Not possible with a semi auto without help IMO
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:goodposting:

 
:shrug:   I think it was an act of terrorism.  It may or may not have been a part of an organized terror plot - but the reality is that when people go on these mass shootings, one of the key effects are to inflict terror - and make people feel less safe in familiar surroundings - whether that is a night club, a school, a movie theater...

ETA - guy who shot up abortion clinic - he wants people to feel less safe at abortion clinics.  That is terrorism.

 
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Sinn Fein said:
:shrug:   I think it was an act of terrorism.  It may or may not have been a part of an organized terror plot - but the reality is that when people go on these mass shootings, one of the key effects are to inflict terror - and make people feel less safe in familiar surroundings - whether that is a night club, a school, a movie theater...
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I don't disagree with any of this but then we need to come up with different terminology to distinguish between when an organized group like ISIS plans and executes an event, versus when a lone guy acts on his own because he is inspired by that group. 

 
James Daulton said:
Why do we need high capacity magazines for guns?  I heard a report that said these wackos can kill so many people in part because of all the rounds they can fire before they having to reload.  Getting rid of these things seems a no-brainer to me.
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You will be told that there are already too many and that making them illegal would only infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens so nothing can be done. 

Gun violence is a disease like diabetes or heart disease and one side honestly believes the only answer is the equivalent of flooding our neighborhoods with even more doughnut shops and fast food places.   

 
dschuler said:
When have you ever seen an F15 or tank in your neighborhood?
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I would say often about the F15 but the 1st fighter wing upgraded to F22's some time ago. They fly over my house doing their training runs. Shakes the house and scares the dogs every time.

 
timschochet said:
I don't disagree with any of this but then we need to come up with different terminology to distinguish between when an organized group like ISIS plans and executes an event, versus when a lone guy acts on his own because he is inspired by that group. 
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Why do we need multiple definitions?

 
dschuler said:
Have you ever fired an AR-15?  Just curious.  It's not possible.  There I said it.  He either had help or had a gun mod.  Here is just one example of what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE&sns=em
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To be fair, if he used FMJ with people packed in a club, one round could kill multiple people.  So maybe not fully auto.  I highly doubt he used a bump stock as you need two hands to control it and he was armed with two guns.  All I do know is it's awful. 

 
timschochet said:
I don't disagree with any of this but then we need to come up with different terminology to distinguish between when an organized group like ISIS plans and executes an event, versus when a lone guy acts on his own because he is inspired by that group. 
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Apparently the shooter has connections to radical Islamic terrorist groups and was on the FBI watch list. 

 
timschochet said:
You're thinking of them as a group, but they're not. They're a bunch of terrified individuals. If I'm there am I rushing the gunman? Hell no, I'm trying to hide under a table, hoping I somehow survive. 
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plus it was probably very dark in there. Just saw on nbc that witnesses said they thought the noise was part of the music.

 
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3C's said:
Father of murderer says: “We are apologizing for the whole incident. We weren’t aware of any action he [was] taking," the father reportedly told NBC. "We are in shock like the whole country. This had nothing to do with religion."
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I don't believe it had much to do with religion either. I think people with serious mental instability find Islam or the jihad section of the book and go nuts. 

 
boots11234 said:
To be fair, if he used FMJ with people packed in a club, one round could kill multiple people.  So maybe not fully auto.  I highly doubt he used a bump stock as you need two hands to control it and he was armed with two guns.  All I do know is it's awful. 
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Possible, yes.  Remotely likely, absolutely not.  If he pulled that off he should have been buying lottery tickets instead.  

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
Mass shootings have happened with:

Muslims with guns

Christians with guns

Jews with guns

White people with guns

Black people with guns

LGBT people with guns

Straight people with guns

Mentally ill people with guns

Evil people with guns

Kids with guns

Too bad we can't figure out the common denominator. 
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They are all people?  If we get rid of people, no more people will get killed....

 
Ministry of Pain said:
I don't believe it had much to do with religion either. I think people with serious mental instability find Islam or the jihad section of the book and go nuts. 
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If he's tied to ISIS as DHS is saying, then unfortunately religion has something to do with it. 

And we all have to deal with this terrible fact: while all religions have extremists that commit horrific acts, Islam has a larger percentage of these than any other. 

 
Captain Cranks said:
It's not even about guns.  It's about the ability to kill so many in such little amount of time with these assault-style weapons.  There is no justification for them that wouldn't also pertain to rocket launchers which everyone with a brain seems to agree shouldn't be in the hands of the average person.  Why these AR15s and large ammunition drums aren't banned is beyond my comprehension.  
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They are not banned because the Constitution was made for a moral and religious people.  The great majority, 99.99 percent of moral and religious people are assumed to be good and henerally not go around killing people.  The Constitution was not made for muslim terrorists.

"The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.  It is wholly inadequate for any other."  John Adams.

 
James Daulton said:
Why do we need high capacity magazines for guns?  I heard a report that said these wackos can kill so many people in part because of all the rounds they can fire before they having to reload.  Getting rid of these things seems a no-brainer to me.
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Can I ask a question without you or others getting hostile with me? What do we do about all the ones already in existence? There are millions of guns in this country. 

And the fact is if someone was packing heat in that club then perhaps a lot less than 50 people would have died last night. I understand your outrage and just asking what feels like a logical question "Why can't we stop selling these things?" I really understand how you feel today, I'll repeat this hits home hard for me. As much as this pains me I don't in any way want to make it harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves. 

 
Officer Pete Malloy said:
Muslim kills some people:

"Religion of peace my ###!"  "Typical" "See?  They're all a bunch of terrorists"

Christian shoots up/bombs an abortion clinic:

"It's not about religion...must be mental illness"
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I have literally never, heard the action of bombing or shooting an abortion clinic explained away that way. 

 
Capella said:
Yea Christians are totally understanding of it. 

Stop being an idiot. 
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This comment and the 10+ likes it received show how truly out of touch some of the people in this place are. 

You liberal nuts can keep your heads in the sand as much as you want but it isn't going to save anyone's life. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
No bull#### here either. You're as bad as anyone claiming any Muslim supports terrorism. Don't be the guy you hate. Rip the person making the comments; not a group you feel are associated with the comment. 
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I have ripped individuals. And all those who support them.  

To ignore a virulent underlying and driving ideology, when it results in such public figures (who by definition DO represents groups... a congregation and a constituency, respectively) is to willingly allow this to happen again. 

If you want to be so obtuse as to suggest anything I've said meant "all" I believe that says more about you, than it does I.

Personally, I want done with this.  Needless hate, deaths, lives lived suffering.

That means  we need to grow a pair of balls large enough to actually TALK about the underlying ####### ISSUES... some guy does not just see two men kiss and go kill 50+ souls without greater underlying and societal influences. If that means forcing ourselves to really take stock in where we are as a nation so be it - our inherent bigotry, hatred, homo/transphobia, issues of extreme religious views (Muslim, Christian - and don't think others fall here as well, just in much smaller and less noticeable numbers), access to weapons of mass killing, social inequity and economic-classism, growing xenophobia and racial/ethnic/national scapegoating, attraction to demagogues and an ideology of separatism...

Time to face it all and stop ####### dancing around the issue by being politically correct in a way that that all too often serve some particular agenda in the first place. the Liberals hardly have a monopoly on that, perhaps it's time to take notice. Worse yet, it's not any "one" of the above, nor each unto their own, but this awful confluence of national success and failure that appears at a tipping point.   Without being ####### honest about each of those issues, and how they interlap then we all but consent to such horror (based on these damned issues) happening again.

 
Dignan_ said:
You liberal conservative nuts can keep your heads in the sand as much as you want but it isn't going to save anyone's life. 
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Wow.  I totally just made a great point.  <pats self on back for genius comment that brings so much clarity to the discussion>

 
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dschuler said:
When have you ever seen an F15 or tank in your neighborhood?
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well, they fly over Lambeau 10 times a year so... for the last 15 years.... quick math, give or take since its been Chinook's a couple times, a Warthog once, maybe 135?

 
Koya said:
Add Pat Robertson to the vile piece of garbage that Lt Gov Patrick represents.  These people are barely any better than the shooter himself, all but wishing for this to happen.

The sheer inhumanity of so many literally pains me. 
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wtf are you talking about. I know this tragedy makes people emotional but comments like this just make you look foolish. You are no better than the people you are criticizing.

 
Oh hey, remember that time Radical Islamists were encouraging their followers to take advantage of U.S. Gun laws to carry out attacks? 

“America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?” American-born al-Qaeda spokesmen Adam Yahiye Gadahn said in a message to followers in 2011. Gadahn, once the American face of al-Qaida, was killed in a drone strike in 2015.

Similarly, a six-page jihadist document obtained by The Violence Policy Center (VPC), instructs would-be terrorists “on the advantages the United States offers for firearms training and advises readers on how to exploit them.”
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ter·ror·ism

ˈterəˌrizəm/

noun
 




  1. the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
     
     
     

     
    ter·ror

    ˈterər/

    noun
    noun: terror; plural noun: terrors; noun: holy terror; plural noun: holy terrors



    1.


    extreme fear.
    "people fled in terror"

    synonyms:


    extreme fear, dread, horror, fear and trembling, fright, alarm, panic



    "she screamed in terror"









    • the use of terror to intimidate people, especially for political reasons; terrorism.
      "weapons of terror"




    • a person or thing that causes extreme fear.
      "his unyielding scowl became the terror of the Chicago mob"




    • the period of the French Revolution between mid 1793 and July 1794 when the ruling Jacobin faction, dominated by Robespierre, ruthlessly executed anyone considered a threat to their regime.
      singular proper noun: Terror; noun: the Terror








  2. 2.


    informal
    a person, especially a child, who causes trouble or annoyance.
    "placid and obedient in their parents' presence, but holy terrors when left alone"

    synonyms:


    rascal, rogue, rapscallion, devil, imp, monkey, mischief-maker, troublemaker,scalawag, scamp; More
















 
Captain Cranks said:
I know I'm in the minority here, but I wish these pieces of #### would survive.  1.  We'd be able to get information out of them about other possible attacks and 2.  I think rotting in prison is worse than just having the lights go out.  
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Get what you are saying but I this case I doubt he knew anything about other attacks. And #### this guy, he doesn't deserve to live.

 
timschochet said:
If he's tied to ISIS as DHS is saying, then unfortunately religion has something to do with it. 

And we all have to deal with this terrible fact: while all religions have extremists that commit horrific acts, Islam has a larger percentage of these than any other. 
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He was born in the United States, to me that means he found the jihad stuff thru media and such. I don't think this guy was traveling to and from the ME. US born citizens committing jihad though is the next phase of this IMO and it won't just be Islamic Extremist.

 
timschochet said:
If he's tied to ISIS as DHS is saying, then unfortunately religion has something to do with it. 

And we all have to deal with this terrible fact: while all religions have extremists that commit horrific acts, Islam has a larger percentage of these than any other. 
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former CIA director/wonk Robert Woolsey was on FOX earlier, with an interesting quote, from an equally interesting source (Trotsky): "you may not be interested in war, but war may be interested in you"

 
Attacking the guns is a somewhat simplistic means of managing the issue.

This is horrorific, a god awful tragedy.

But those committed to havoc can wreak it without a gun.

In New York, when I was young, a guy with about 3 dollars worth of gas and a match killed 87 people in a nightclub. 

Not a planned scenario,but look at that great white night club fire a few years ago. 

 
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