McDermott In Buffalo - Better Options? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

Non-Emotional Question (If that's possible):

Would Bill Belichick, Mike Vrabel or Jim Harbaugh be more effective in Buffalo than McDermott next year?

 

[zed2283]

I'm not impressed with McDermott

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Non-Emotional Question (If that's possible):

Would Bill Belichick, Mike Vrabel or Jim Harbaugh be more effective in Buffalo than McDermott next year?

I mean, set aside the results for a second which have been meh in the playoffs.

McDermott is a defensive coach — and his defense isn’t that good. At a minimum we should all be able to agree that it isn’t dominant.

The strength of the team should be the offense. Josh Allen is Uber talented, but he also needs quality coaching — as evidenced by missing a guy wide open on a critical 3rd and long the final drive.

Either hire a great defensive coach who actually builds a top defense, or hire an offensive brain who can maximize Josh Allen. It’s not clear to me what McDermott brings to the table here.

 

[travdogg]

In McDermott's defense, the defense was an absolute mess with injuries. Playing with 5th and 6th LBs. I don't think losing to KC is a sign of poor coaching. KC is the best coached team in the NFL and is in their 5th straight conference championship game. I don't think McDermott losing to them is any more damning than Mike Tomlin losing to the Brady/Belichick Patriots was to him.

I think McDermott is a solid HC, not great, but solid. I also think too often people get stuck with the grass is always greener syndrome. I'm not sure any of those guys would be an upgrade. Belichick would have been, but its debatable whether he still has it, Vrabel hasn't shown himself to be all that different than McDermott. Harbaugh is a bit of a wildcard, but its been a decade since he was in the NFL, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing. He'd probably be my choice of the 3 though.

I voted probably no, but if there was an answer that simply a neutral answer, I probably would have picked that.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

IMO this is the second year in a row in which this team has clearly under-achieved. They had to fire their OC in the middle of the season, they should have fired their ST coordinator, and they don't have a DC. I know McDermott is definitely coming back next year, but I would prefer that they move on. It's hard to escape the conclusion that he's not the guy who gets us over the hump.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

In McDermott's defense, the defense was an absolute mess with injuries. Playing with 5th and 6th LBs. I don't think losing to KC is a sign of poor coaching. KC is the best coached team in the NFL and is in their 5th straight conference championship game. I don't think McDermott losing to them is any more damning than Mike Tomlin losing to the Brady/Belichick Patriots was to him.

He should be fired for losing to Denver and New England, not for losing to KC. Those losses still happened.

 

[Gatorman]

In McDermott's defense, the defense was an absolute mess with injuries. Playing with 5th and 6th LBs. I don't think losing to KC is a sign of poor coaching. KC is the best coached team in the NFL and is in their 5th straight conference championship game. I don't think McDermott losing to them is any more damning than Mike Tomlin losing to the Brady/Belichick Patriots was to him.

I think McDermott is a solid HC, not great, but solid. I also think too often people get stuck with the grass is always greener syndrome. I'm not sure any of those guys would be an upgrade. Belichick would have been, but its debatable whether he still has it, Vrabel hasn't shown himself to be all that different than McDermott. Harbaugh is a bit of a wildcard, but its been a decade since he was in the NFL, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing. He'd probably be my choice of the 3 though.

I voted probably no, but if there was an answer that simply a neutral answer, I probably would have picked that.

I agree with this 100%. Their defense is FAST and their offense can put up points. Is he the best "leader of men"? Probably not, but the losses coming up to this year have been more "bad bounces and Brutal luck" than him being outcoached.

As a Miami Fan, I think they really need to fire him and Hire Adam Gase.

 

[Gatorman]

IMO this is the second year in a row in which this team has clearly under-achieved. They had to fire their OC in the middle of the season, they should have fired their ST coordinator, and they don't have a DC. I know McDermott is definitely coming back next year, but I would prefer that they move on. It's hard to escape the conclusion that he's not the guy who gets us over the hump.

So He's the Tony Dungy here. Who's the Gruden you'd bring in to solve it?

Edit to add: Imagine if Bill Belichick was named the HC...

 

[The Duff Man]

Hard no on Bill. The other two would maybe be an upgrade.

The owner will NOT be firing him any time soon however.

 

[zamboni]

The strength of the team should be the offense. Josh Allen is Uber talented, but he also needs quality coaching — as evidenced by missing a guy wide open on a critical 3rd and long the final drive.

Seems a bit harsh to cherry pick that one missed read as a sign of Allen needing better coaching. In any case, while Diggs was the easier throw, Shakir was open on that end zone pass. It was just a poor throw, but that happens, and it may have been rushed a bit due to pressure from Chris Jones.

 

[menobrown]

He fired the OC and ran off the DC. It's his show so when the team keeps coming up short he has to carry a lot of that weight.

That they've won a lot of games, been in their playoff losses to the end and the massive amount of injuries they had this year gives me some pause which is why I went Maybe Yes.

But if my life depended on the Bills getting over the hump I'd rather have one of those other coaches.

 

[massraider]

Free agents:

WR Gabriel Davis
G David Edwards
DT DaQuan Jones
DE A.J. Epenesa
LB Tyrel Dodson
CB Dane Jackson
S Micah Hyde

45 mill over the cap. Von Miller cap hit is 23.7 mill, Allen's is like 47 mill.

That's a mess that no coach is gonna look good with. They need to take a look at the guys building this roster as well. They are going to be like the Eagles last year, replacing vets who play a lot with other guys, cheaper ones

 

[Alex P Keaton]

The strength of the team should be the offense. Josh Allen is Uber talented, but he also needs quality coaching — as evidenced by missing a guy wide open on a critical 3rd and long the final drive.

Seems a bit harsh to cherry pick that one missed read as a sign of Allen needing better coaching. In any case, while Diggs was the easier throw, Shakir was open on that end zone pass. It was just a poor throw, but that happens, and it may have been rushed a bit due to pressure from Chris Jones.

It’s not just the one throw — they felt the need to fire the OC in-season.

 

[Bri]

Non-Emotional Question (If that's possible):

Would Bill Belichick, Mike Vrabel or Jim Harbaugh be more effective in Buffalo than McDermott next year?

I think it's as much an offensive problem as defensive. They continue to believe they'll win a shootout with Mahomes.
The Titans used to go against Peyton every year and there were a lot of interesting discussions. It was foolish to just try and score more.
Fisher had some success relying on Eddie George to eat the clock.
His great plan for a bit was to only have two DL. Belichick would use this one.
Vrabel lost to the Chiefs w the Titans but he won too. His plan was largely Derrick Henry eating up the clock and sometimes doubling Kelce with all pro Kevin Byard and athletic LB Jayon Brown. Eventually Mahomes couldn't NOT throw to Kelce. There'd be some big third down and he'd force it and they'd have to punt.
Mahomes is a student first and that's a big reason why he's great like Peyton. You're not going to beat him the same way twice. Plus Tom Moore and Reid's own tape watching and improvement.

I think the Bills have to have someone more creative on D to beat him but I've long thought there prob was too much Josh Allen. When they got back on track this year, they looked more traditional and used the RB like most teams do.

Buffalo has had their share of good to top RBs throughout history and they're brutally difficult to stop in the cold. Since Allen, they don't even use this advantage. They'll have him run and be happy he gets 40-50 yards. That's not OJ or Thurman or whoever getting 100 and the OL looking at freezing defeated DL wishing they could be on the sideline.

Another thing that bugs me is their offense always requires an inordinate number of big catches. It's been a long time since I watched a Bills game and there weren't like eight to ten nice catches on third down. Can they not just have a normal amount? God Bless Shakir and Davis and Diggs but even showboat OBJ only had 2-3 per game.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The roster's fine. If we had it to do over again, obviously we wouldn't sign Von Miller, but this year's roster (and last year's) was perfectly capable of winning a SB. Not worried at all about the GM.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Buffalo has had their share of good to top RBs throughout history and they're brutally difficult to stop in the cold. Since Allen, they don't even use this advantage. They'll have him run and be happy he gets 40-50 yards. That's not OJ or Thurman or whoever getting 100 and the OL looking at freezing defeated DL wishing they could be on the sideline.

Guys, I think we just found McDermott's alias.

 

[JAA]

In McDermott's defense, the defense was an absolute mess with injuries. Playing with 5th and 6th LBs. I don't think losing to KC is a sign of poor coaching. KC is the best coached team in the NFL and is in their 5th straight conference championship game. I don't think McDermott losing to them is any more damning than Mike Tomlin losing to the Brady/Belichick Patriots was to him.

I think McDermott is a solid HC, not great, but solid. I also think too often people get stuck with the grass is always greener syndrome. I'm not sure any of those guys would be an upgrade. Belichick would have been, but its debatable whether he still has it, Vrabel hasn't shown himself to be all that different than McDermott. Harbaugh is a bit of a wildcard, but its been a decade since he was in the NFL, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing. He'd probably be my choice of the 3 though.

I voted probably no, but if there was an answer that simply a neutral answer, I probably would have picked that.

This

Feels like its all about staying healthy.

IIRC in the SB LII year the Eagles didnt have 1 injury, same starting lineup, on the OL throughout the entire year.

 

[SanDawg]

HC has had plenty of opportunity with this team to take to the next level and it just has not happened. Lost at home past two years in the playoffs. Completely out coached and scared in many of these games in my opinion. If winning the East and losing at home in 2nd round is your thing then he is great. Next level he is not. If I were the owner I would thank him today for all he did for this organization but time to move on. Message is now old and stale and some of these high priced veterans have tuned him out. (Diggs)

 

[Bri]

The Chargers used to have a DL hit Tony G, then Seau would bump him and pass him off to Harrison.
They didn't shut him down but made it a hard day for him and a difficult time for those Chiefs to rely on him per usual.

A lot of teams did this after against Gates and Tony G. A lot of bumping and hitting almost to be annoying- it looked like being annoying was it's whole purpose

I think Kelce is similarly great and unstoppable.

Jordan was unstoppable and we had lots of discussions on him many years ago. Some teams would claim to let him score because the other four wouldn't beat them. Some would have someone follow him everywhere. Some would constantly be bumping him (above) and ...for me the discussions did transcend two sports- Jordan would get old and it just seemed to transfer to football discussions.

I don't hear squat about theories on stopping Kelce nowadays. It's just simply he's going to get his. The best is like Bates or Byard or some all pro on him. It's weak and borderline lazy to just hope to win a matchup against a HOF player. You need more juice, more planning and more creativity. And in the least, find a way to annoy him and get him off his game some

 

[travdogg]

Non-Emotional Question (If that's possible):

Would Bill Belichick, Mike Vrabel or Jim Harbaugh be more effective in Buffalo than McDermott next year?

Buffalo has had their share of good to top RBs throughout history and they're brutally difficult to stop in the cold. Since Allen, they don't even use this advantage. They'll have him run and be happy he gets 40-50 yards. That's not OJ or Thurman or whoever getting 100 and the OL looking at freezing defeated DL wishing they could be on the sideline.

The Bills were 7th in the NFL in rushing this season, and James Cook was 4th in rushing yards.

I don't know how much more you can ask of them as far as running the ball, and Allen is a big part of that just like Lamar Jackson is to the Ravens being 1st in rushing, and to a lesser extent Fields to the Bears being 2nd.

In 2024, its hard to have a top rushing game without a large portion of it being your QB (Cards were 4th in rushing, and much of that was Dobbs/Murray) or having a truly elite RB (CMC, Henry) the only teams in the top-6 in rushing who didn't fall in that category were Detroit (top OL, and 2 good RBs) and Miami (2 good RB's and even then was boom/bust, big play dependent)

 

[The Duff Man]

I don't hear squat about theories on stopping Kelce nowadays. It's just simply he's going to get his. The best is like Bates or Byard or some all pro on him. It's weak and borderline lazy to just hope to win a matchup against a HOF player. You need more juice, more planning and more creativity. And in the least, find a way to annoy him and get him off his game some

For this particular game, the Bills had a guy playing MLB calling the D who was on his couch two weeks prior, and were also missing their All Pro LB beside him.

In retrospect more attention should have been paid to this. But the hope of fans was that the Dline would get some pressure on Mahomes with the Oline hampered a bit by crowd noise and it just didn’t happen at all.

 

[Bri]

Non-Emotional Question (If that's possible):

Would Bill Belichick, Mike Vrabel or Jim Harbaugh be more effective in Buffalo than McDermott next year?

Buffalo has had their share of good to top RBs throughout history and they're brutally difficult to stop in the cold. Since Allen, they don't even use this advantage. They'll have him run and be happy he gets 40-50 yards. That's not OJ or Thurman or whoever getting 100 and the OL looking at freezing defeated DL wishing they could be on the sideline.

The Bills were 7th in the NFL in rushing this season, and James Cook was 4th in rushing yards.

I don't know how much more you can ask of them as far as running the ball, and Allen is a big part of that just like Lamar Jackson is to the Ravens being 1st in rushing, and to a lesser extent Fields to the Bears being 2nd.

In 2024, its hard to have a top rushing game without a large portion of it being your QB (Cards were 4th in rushing, and much of that was Dobbs/Murray) or having a truly elite RB (CMC, Henry) the only teams in the top-6 in rushing who didn't fall in that category were Detroit (top OL, and 2 good RBs) and Miami (2 good RB's and even then was boom/bust, big play dependent)

They ran him good when they got back on track and it worked well too.
How many carries did he get in the playoffs?

Mahomes isn't hurting you when he's on the sideline.
I'm not...as I said he's like Peyton and there isn't a golden answer to it all as he'll just learn and beat ya a new way.

I'd want my back buying time for the DC and defensive coaches to do their thing and the defenders to be as well rested as possible.

Yes Lamar or Allen can run for ten yards and get a first but I find value in three 4 yard carries.

 

[travdogg]

Non-Emotional Question (If that's possible):

Would Bill Belichick, Mike Vrabel or Jim Harbaugh be more effective in Buffalo than McDermott next year?

Buffalo has had their share of good to top RBs throughout history and they're brutally difficult to stop in the cold. Since Allen, they don't even use this advantage. They'll have him run and be happy he gets 40-50 yards. That's not OJ or Thurman or whoever getting 100 and the OL looking at freezing defeated DL wishing they could be on the sideline.

The Bills were 7th in the NFL in rushing this season, and James Cook was 4th in rushing yards.

I don't know how much more you can ask of them as far as running the ball, and Allen is a big part of that just like Lamar Jackson is to the Ravens being 1st in rushing, and to a lesser extent Fields to the Bears being 2nd.

In 2024, its hard to have a top rushing game without a large portion of it being your QB (Cards were 4th in rushing, and much of that was Dobbs/Murray) or having a truly elite RB (CMC, Henry) the only teams in the top-6 in rushing who didn't fall in that category were Detroit (top OL, and 2 good RBs) and Miami (2 good RB's and even then was boom/bust, big play dependent)

They ran him good when they got back on track and it worked well too.
How many carries did he get in the playoffs?

Mahomes isn't hurting you when he's on the sideline.
I'm not...as I said he's like Peyton and there isn't a golden answer to it all as he'll just learn and beat ya a new way.

I'd want my back buying time for the DC and defensive coaches to do their thing and the defenders to be as well rested as possible.

Yes Lamar or Allen can run for ten yards and get a first but I find value in three 4 yard carries.

Cook had 36 carries in 2 playoff games. That would a 306 carry pace over the course of the season. On top of that Ty Johnson had 15 carries, a 128 carry pace. And Allen had 20 carries, a 170-carry pace.

The Bills had almost a 50-50 run/pass split in the 2 playoff games. 73 runs to 69 passes.

The Bills had a 37-23 time of possession edge. What more could they have done?

 

[Summer Wheat]

No dog in fight here but Another huge blown call by refs, Diggs dropping a bomb, kicker missing a kick he makes 92% of the time.

Not sure how that is the HCs fault.

 

[Bri]

Non-Emotional Question (If that's possible):

Would Bill Belichick, Mike Vrabel or Jim Harbaugh be more effective in Buffalo than McDermott next year?

Buffalo has had their share of good to top RBs throughout history and they're brutally difficult to stop in the cold. Since Allen, they don't even use this advantage. They'll have him run and be happy he gets 40-50 yards. That's not OJ or Thurman or whoever getting 100 and the OL looking at freezing defeated DL wishing they could be on the sideline.

The Bills were 7th in the NFL in rushing this season, and James Cook was 4th in rushing yards.

I don't know how much more you can ask of them as far as running the ball, and Allen is a big part of that just like Lamar Jackson is to the Ravens being 1st in rushing, and to a lesser extent Fields to the Bears being 2nd.

In 2024, its hard to have a top rushing game without a large portion of it being your QB (Cards were 4th in rushing, and much of that was Dobbs/Murray) or having a truly elite RB (CMC, Henry) the only teams in the top-6 in rushing who didn't fall in that category were Detroit (top OL, and 2 good RBs) and Miami (2 good RB's and even then was boom/bust, big play dependent)

They ran him good when they got back on track and it worked well too.
How many carries did he get in the playoffs?

Mahomes isn't hurting you when he's on the sideline.
I'm not...as I said he's like Peyton and there isn't a golden answer to it all as he'll just learn and beat ya a new way.

I'd want my back buying time for the DC and defensive coaches to do their thing and the defenders to be as well rested as possible.

Yes Lamar or Allen can run for ten yards and get a first but I find value in three 4 yard carries.

Cook had 36 carries in 2 playoff games. That would a 306 carry pace over the course of the season. On top of that Ty Johnson had 15 carries, a 128 carry pace. And Allen had 20 carries, a 170-carry pace.

The Bills had almost a 50-50 run/pass split in the 2 playoff games. 73 runs to 69 passes.

The Bills had a 37-23 time of possession edge. What more could they have done?

Really?
Wow
I'm totally wrong then

 

[Steeler]

Mike Tomlin

 

[Soulfly3]

Mike Tomlin

Last post of the thread to see this... Wow.

Bills win a SB w him as coach either last szn or this. I'm sure

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I don't hear squat about theories on stopping Kelce nowadays. It's just simply he's going to get his. The best is like Bates or Byard or some all pro on him. It's weak and borderline lazy to just hope to win a matchup against a HOF player. You need more juice, more planning and more creativity. And in the least, find a way to annoy him and get him off his game some

For this particular game, the Bills had a guy playing MLB calling the D who was on his couch two weeks prior, and were also missing their All Pro LB beside him.

In retrospect more attention should have been paid to this. But the hope of fans was that the Dline would get some pressure on Mahomes with the Oline hampered a bit by crowd noise and it just didn’t happen at all.

Really fair and valid point

 

[General Malaise]

They should hire Mike McCarthy after he's let go by Dallas.

 

[massraider]

Next year this time I expect the Shark Pool to call for the firing of whichever 31 coaches didn't win the title.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Next year this time I expect the Shark Pool to call for the firing of whichever 31 coaches didn't win the title.

I think what's different this year is the options out there. Bill Belichick and Jim Harbaugh are high-profile possibilities. Vrabel is seen as a great coach, too.

The question is a bit different as it's not focused on the firing of a coach. But asking if Belichick/Harbaugh/Vrabel might be better options?

 

[Steve Tasker]

Belichick and Vrabel are not an upgrade over McDermott. Belichick is an all-time great but the game has largely passed him by. I have zero interest in Vrabel; he's got some positives but he's a downgrade from McDermott.

I would take Jim Harbaugh in a heartbeat. No questions asked.

For the record, I believe McDermott should be fired.

 

[rockaction]

Belichick is an all-time great but the game has largely passed him by. I have zero interest in Vrabel; he's got some positives but he's a downgrade from McDermott.

I agree with this.

I also think it's time for McDermott to go.

 

[Gatorman]

I don't hear squat about theories on stopping Kelce nowadays. It's just simply he's going to get his. The best is like Bates or Byard or some all pro on him. It's weak and borderline lazy to just hope to win a matchup against a HOF player. You need more juice, more planning and more creativity. And in the least, find a way to annoy him and get him off his game some

For this particular game, the Bills had a guy playing MLB calling the D who was on his couch two weeks prior, and were also missing their All Pro LB beside him.

In retrospect more attention should have been paid to this. But the hope of fans was that the Dline would get some pressure on Mahomes with the Oline hampered a bit by crowd noise and it just didn’t happen at all.

Basically Allen is getting the same treatment Tua got last week. Defense decimated and O line is in shambles, but the QB is the issue? That's why they get paid what they do; to play offense, but get the blame for not being a better DC or strength and conditioning coach.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't hear squat about theories on stopping Kelce nowadays. It's just simply he's going to get his. The best is like Bates or Byard or some all pro on him. It's weak and borderline lazy to just hope to win a matchup against a HOF player. You need more juice, more planning and more creativity. And in the least, find a way to annoy him and get him off his game some

For this particular game, the Bills had a guy playing MLB calling the D who was on his couch two weeks prior, and were also missing their All Pro LB beside him.

In retrospect more attention should have been paid to this. But the hope of fans was that the Dline would get some pressure on Mahomes with the Oline hampered a bit by crowd noise and it just didn’t happen at all.

Basically Allen is getting the same treatment Tua got last week. Defense decimated and O line is in shambles, but the QB is the issue? That's why they get paid what they do; to play offense, but get the blame for not being a better DC or strength and conditioning coach.

For me, I don't see as much of that. I see criticism of the staff for not developing the offense around Allen more. They seemed to revert back to the "Put the superman cape on and save us Josh" game plan from the past.

 

[AAABatteries]

Haven't read the thread but voted maybe yes. But it's hard - they've been right there and had some things not go their way (some he's responsible for). Honestly, with the injuries the D had and the luck they had during the game they probably should have lost worst last night.

 

[AAABatteries]

I will say that fake punt attempt was horrible. Unbelievably lucky they still had a chance after that.

 

[Lansdowne]

Would have fired McDermott two years ago after choking away the lead with 13 seconds left and losing the game at Arrowhead (so terrified of getting beat deep that they allow Hill and Kelce to go 44 yards practically uncontested in a 10 second span and into field goal range). Face planting at home against the Bengals the following year and then cleaning up the mess his team made for themselves in the first half of this season only to lose, again, to the Chiefs for the third time, while the Chiefs are their most vulnerable in recent memory. Not to mention the 9/11 nonsense. I think he's a fine defensive mind but the Bills need a new voice as head coach if they're going to get over the hump. They're in a pretty tough spot heading into next year regarding the cap situation and free agency, so they might be reluctant to start over at head coach just yet.

 

[Gatorman]

I don't hear squat about theories on stopping Kelce nowadays. It's just simply he's going to get his. The best is like Bates or Byard or some all pro on him. It's weak and borderline lazy to just hope to win a matchup against a HOF player. You need more juice, more planning and more creativity. And in the least, find a way to annoy him and get him off his game some

For this particular game, the Bills had a guy playing MLB calling the D who was on his couch two weeks prior, and were also missing their All Pro LB beside him.

In retrospect more attention should have been paid to this. But the hope of fans was that the Dline would get some pressure on Mahomes with the Oline hampered a bit by crowd noise and it just didn’t happen at all.

Basically Allen is getting the same treatment Tua got last week. Defense decimated and O line is in shambles, but the QB is the issue? That's why they get paid what they do; to play offense, but get the blame for not being a better DC or strength and conditioning coach.

For me, I don't see as much of that. I see criticism of the staff for not developing the offense around Allen more. They seemed to revert back to the "Put the superman cape on and save us Josh" game plan from the past.

Joe, all great QBs suffer from this., Especially when they eat up so much of the cap. Even Mahomes has to do it now with subpar surrounding talent (pretty much all three of the Bills WRs likely start for the Chiefs), but their D with Spags is crazy good and Pacheco is running angry and is healthy. My "concern" (and many Phins fans as well) is that Tua is not the QB to eat that much cap bc he needs awesome players around him at the moment to succeed and when he is a chunck of the cap can they keep the Hills and Waddles of the world? Can the Niners keep that group when Purdy comes due?

That being said, where did you see a "lapse" in the skill guys on offense last night? Everyone was playing lights out except for their star WR. Shakir was fire, the TEs were crushing it, the line was holding up, and while Cook and Sherfield both had a drop, all of those throws were dimes by Allen.

At the end of the day you have to at least "slow down" Mahomes. Miami held them to 14 when their D was healthy (they scored 21 in Germany ona defensive TD), and was holding them to field goals in the permafrost last week until the O basically couldn't hold on to the ball so they got tired. The Bills, when healthy on D could have held him down, maybe. Last nights team was using the offense to keep Mahomes off the field.

With all that being said, it was a dead ball shank from a damn good Kicker that is why we are talking about this today.

 

[Gatorman]

Would have fired McDermott two years ago after choking away the lead with 13 seconds left and losing the game at Arrowhead (so terrified of getting beat deep that they allow Hill and Kelce to go 44 yards practically uncontested in a 10 second span and into field goal range). Face planting at home against the Bengals the following year and then cleaning up the mess his team made for themselves in the first half of this season only to lose, again, to the Chiefs for the third time, while the Chiefs are their most vulnerable in recent memory. Not to mention the 9/11 nonsense. I think he's a fine defensive mind but the Bills need a new voice as head coach if they're going to get over the hump. They're in a pretty tough spot heading into next year regarding the cap situation and free agency, so they might be reluctant to start over at head coach just yet.

It's interesting in the sense that this is all dependent on aspirations I would say. The Bills have won the AFC east 4 times in a row now and have been some "funky" reasons for why they have not gone to the superbowl up to now. The Saints had this happen to them in consecutive years down the stretch, but I guess when you already got one ring flukey stuff doesn't hit as hard maybe?

Again, biggest Miami fan there is and for the next 4 years I'd trade the entire Bills team including the coaching staff for the entire Miami team and theirs, and I think McDaniel is the next great head coach.

 

[Ghost Rider]

McDermott in Buffalo feels like Dungy in TB: did a great job in making them a perennial contender, but seems unable to get them over the hump. Like with the Bucs, it feels like it will take a new coach to get them there.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

McDermott in Buffalo feels like Dungy in TB: did a great job in making them a perennial contender, but seems unable to get them over the hump. Like with the Bucs, it feels like it will take a new coach to get them there.

Very good analogy. This franchise absolutely needed a culture change when McDermott arrived in 2017, replacing the likes of Rex Ryan, Chan Gailey, and **** Jauron. And he provided one! McDermott absolutely changed the locker room and the entire mood of the team, and you could see the results on the field almost immediately. But there's just something about him -- I don't pretend to know what -- that causes this team to vapor lock when we're in high-stakes situations.

No offense to any of the other teams here, but we should have blown out an injury-riddled Pittsburgh team last week. We should have blown out a Skyler Thompson-led Miami team last year. Instead, we struggled to put Pittsburgh away and nearly lost to Miami. We nearly lost to a Colts team that was led by a 58 year-old Philip Rivers. At some point, those skin-of-your-teeth escapes against inferior opposition are no longer outliers and become a pattern. Toss in the inability to defeat an actual peer in any playoff game (by my count they are 0-4 against the Chiefs and Bengals) and I'm ready to see what somebody else can do with this roster.

Sure, they have cap issues, but so do lots of teams, and those are temporary. The Bills have one of the 2-3 best QBs in the league and good (not great) talent across the entire offense. This isn't like the drought years when people would turn down interview invitations. We'd have candidates lined up out the door if McDermott was out of the picture.

 

[Gatorman]

McDermott in Buffalo feels like Dungy in TB: did a great job in making them a perennial contender, but seems unable to get them over the hump. Like with the Bucs, it feels like it will take a new coach to get them there.

Very good analogy. This franchise absolutely needed a culture change when McDermott arrived in 2017, replacing the likes of Rex Ryan, Chan Gailey, and **** Jauron. And he provided one! McDermott absolutely changed the locker room and the entire mood of the team, and you could see the results on the field almost immediately. But there's just something about him -- I don't pretend to know what -- that causes this team to vapor lock when we're in high-stakes situations.

No offense to any of the other teams here, but we should have blown out an injury-riddled Pittsburgh team last week. We should have blown out a Skyler Thompson-led Miami team last year. Instead, we struggled to put Pittsburgh away and nearly lost to Miami. We nearly lost to a Colts team that was led by a 58 year-old Philip Rivers. At some point, those skin-of-your-teeth escapes against inferior opposition are no longer outliers and become a pattern. Toss in the inability to defeat an actual peer in any playoff game (by my count they are 0-4 against the Chiefs and Bengals) and I'm ready to see what somebody else can do with this roster.

Sure, they have cap issues, but so do lots of teams, and those are temporary. The Bills have one of the 2-3 best QBs in the league and good (not great) talent across the entire offense. This isn't like the drought years when people would turn down interview invitations. We'd have candidates lined up out the door if McDermott was out of the picture.

Ok, both of you: WHO IS YOUR JOHN GRUDEN HERE?

I used the Dungy analogy as well. Who is the "gruden" in this scenario? Remember, you don't have a DC on this team and the OC is an interim guy. The Belichick / Vrabel / Harbaugh type coaches are the only ones you can bring in that are 1) Available, and 2) Bigger names. If Tomlin had been let go I could see that happening but he wasn't.

Who is the "re-tread" coach that has the Gruden Cache? Only Vrabel or Billy B. (Let's face it, Billy B is such an obvious choice bc he wants to "stick it" to Kraft and catch Shula so this team is ready made for him)

 

[Gally]

Belichick is an all-time great but the game has largely passed him by.

I am not so sure about this. I think he is a terrible GM and player personnel decision maker but I think he is still a quality on field coach. That team was terrible this year and the defense played much better than expected. The offense was devoid of talent and had no QB's (that goes on GM Bill not coach Bill). I think Bill on a different team, preferably one with a quality QB (Chargers or if Dallas/Buffalo/Philly were available landing spots) he would do well.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I'm generally not in favor of firing successful coaches; I think the Ravens/Steelers model of riding out the bad times is far more effective long term. But man, I remember reading the exact same arguments last year, and here we are again. As @IvanKaramazov points out, the Bills' postseason track record in the McDermott era consists almost entirely of scraping by against inferior opponents and losing to the elite teams. The only quality wins were the Pats in '21 (impressive win against inferior opponent) and Ravens in '20.

I don't know enough about the team to say if McDermott is part of the problem, but it's gotta be so frustrating to just keep banging on that ceiling without a breakthrough.

In any event, this debate is somewhat misguided. It's not a case of "Can the existing Buffalo roster get to the next level?" but "How do they navigate the next phase?" The front office has a pretty mediocre track record over the past few years, and the good free agents they did sign are getting too expensive. Whoever is in charge is going to have to figure out how to retool around Allen.

 

[SoBeDad]

No on Belichick. He didn't look for the best coaches, just recycled some he was familiar with. Maybe on Vrabel and Harbaugh.

I'd consider Ben Johnson to maximize the offense. See what he did with an immobile QB. And he could hire an experienced d-coordinator.

 

[Capella]

How many turns does McDermott need? This is like his 5th shot with an elite QB and a good team. He hasn’t done it. Allen only has so many cracks at it left. Gotta move on, he’s not the guy.

 

[themeistersinger]

The strength of the team should be the offense. Josh Allen is Uber talented, but he also needs quality coaching — as evidenced by missing a guy wide open on a critical 3rd and long the final drive.

Seems a bit harsh to cherry pick that one missed read as a sign of Allen needing better coaching. In any case, while Diggs was the easier throw, Shakir was open on that end zone pass. It was just a poor throw, but that happens, and it may have been rushed a bit due to pressure from Chris Jones.

Jones pushed Dion Dawkins into Allen - who was hit by Dawkins as he threw. That's the reason the pass was off.

Throwing it to Shakir was the correct read on that play, even if Diggs was open underneath. The Bills needed a TD to take the lead - if the opportunity for a TD presents itself, you take it, and then hope like hell your defense can get you one stop. And just a few weeks earlier, the defense did get the one stop against the Chiefs.

 

[themeistersinger]

I voted "probably no". I'm convinced the players do believe in McDermott. They do need work on the assistant coaches. The Special Teams coordinator should be fired. I think McDermott would do a better job as a HC if he had a DC that could take some of the load off of him. I'd be happy if Joe Brady stuck around for another year as OC.

There are a lot of reinforcements coming to the defense compared to what they fielded Sunday night - Benford, Bernard, Milano. Douglas looked like his injury was really bothering him last night. And Von Miller actually looked close to being a professional football player last night, as opposed to the total liability he was for most of this season. I do think there is a good chance he has a solid year next year (and at that cap hit, they really need him to be a great player, not merely just as good as AJ Klein but with fewer snaps).

I know they will also lose players - if Poyer and Hyde retire that leaves a huge gap in the secondary. I assume Gabe Davis gets paid by somebody so he is likely gone.

The 13 seconds was clearly a coaching issue. The 12 men against Denver was a coaching issue, particularly ST. (And 13 seconds started with a screw up by the ST coach, who never got word to Bass to do the squib kick). Getting the kickoff wrong was a body blow to him - "the process" failed, and he believes in the process. It's taken him a while to get over that (if he is actually over it, even now). Yeah, a QB can be off on his throw, a receiver can drop a pass, a CB can slip and allow an easy TD. But getting the right communication to the players should never go wrong, and it did, which I think caused him to question everything.

If you win a playoff game 4 years in a row you are not a moron. It is possible somebody else could be better. But Buffalo has also had experience with guys that could be worse - a hell of a lot worse.

The main thing Vrabel would bring is that his players play hard for him. Well, the Bills play hard for McDermott already, so how much improvement could you see there? Bellichick could add some wrinkles to the defense and ST, but he hasn't shown any aptitude on the offensive side of the ball, and if he brings over most of the garbage assistants he had in NE, it's hard to see that as an upgrade. I think Harbaugh would be too much of a loose cannon - could definitely bring a SB but could also flame out badly.

A proven offensive genius would be very intriguing, but who would that be? I could see the Lions OC as a possibility, but not anybody else.

McDermott has evolved over time - he went for it on fourth down a lot more this season than ever before. He can still keep evolving and learning. I don't get the impression he thinks he knows everything there is to know about football. That means there is the possibility of improvement.

And what if you fire McDermott and all the other golden boys pick a different team? Then what?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Joe, all great QBs suffer from this.,

To a degree, sure. But not like Allen in my opinion. At times, he feels like their entire offense. Both passing and rushing.

Of course the QB is the most important player. But Buffalo felt like they reverted back to the throw up the hands and just say "Josh save us" too much Sunday.