Mel Kiper/Todd McShay draft notes/interviews (1 Viewer)

[FavreCo]

The only thing special about these guys is the inability to ever be a special NFL quarterback. Write it down none of these QB's will ever be better than average. They all have the same accuracy problems. The best of the bunch is McNabb and how are things working out for him.

Uh, he went to a Super Bowl and was one of the league's best QBs from 2001 to 2004?

YEah, well, so did Dilfer and he won a ring.Looks like 1 great year, 1 good year to me and 2 sucky for McNabb in your timeframe.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaDo00.htm

 

[Colin Dowling]

I realize we're hungry for draft talk, but Kiper is not of the best quality IMO.

 

[Rounders]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

Sounds about right, but remember that first day is only rounds one and two. Brennan should go by the third round - fourth at the latest, IMO.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

That is correct. Brennan lacks the velocity to go higher.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

That is correct. Brennan lacks the velocity to go higher.

I'm more worried about his frame. He's only around 200lbs, if that.

 

[rascal]

KU juniors Aqib Talib and Anthony Collins are scheduled to hold a press conference today and are expected to announce that they are forgoing their senior season and entering the draft.

CB - Aqib Talib - 6'2/198/4.45 Former 2 star recruit has blossomed into a possible 1st round pick. Very good cover corner and also a solid tackler. Like every corner will occasionally get beaten but is good for at least 1 highlight play per game. Brings such a swagger to the defense that KU has also installed special packages for him on offense. Currently averaging 4.2 tackles per game to go along with 3 interceptions, 5 passes defensed. On offense is averaging 1 catch a game for an average of 25 yards with 4 touchdowns. Pro comparison - Charles Woodson

OT - Anthony Collins - 6'5/309/Does it really matter? Honorable Mention All Big XII as a sophomore has recently said he "can't wait" to get into the NFL. Plays with a rare enthusiasm and is a very vocal team leader. Possesses very good measurables including good strength, quick feet and long arms. High football IQ. Pro comparison - John Tait

Collins was quoted in an article today as saying if he is told by the NFL advisory committee that he will go in the one of the first 2 rounds then he will leave school (he is also only 15 hours away from his degree).

 

[Barry Jive and The Uptown Five]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

Sounds about right, but remember that first day is only rounds one and two. Brennan should go by the third round - fourth at the latest, IMO.

Kiper said the Sugar Bowl dropped him 1-1.5 rounds.Referred to Brennan as a "side'armed slinger."Kiper stated RDs 1-3 are reserved for QBs that warrooms enivsion as a solid starter. Teams don't draft a guy who looks like "backup" material in those rounds. Used Troy Smith as a recent example. Smith was viewed as an unknown and went in the 5th (IIRC).I can see Brennan lasting that long.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

That is correct. Brennan lacks the velocity to go higher.

I'm more worried about his frame. He's only around 200lbs, if that.

Do you know what I don't like about Brennan? He's all arm. Watch him throw some time. He almost ends up facing the sideline on the follow through because he's using all arm and shoulder. I've got to think that will put way too much stress on his shoulder and can lead to an injury. I understand he's thrown a lot of passes as a collegian, but he'll be throwing a heck of a lot more as a pro doing it full time with all the camps and practices.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

That is correct. Brennan lacks the velocity to go higher.

I'm more worried about his frame. He's only around 200lbs, if that.

Do you know what I don't like about Brennan? He's all arm. Watch him throw some time. He almost ends up facing the sideline on the follow through because he's using all arm and shoulder. I've got to think that will put way too much stress on his shoulder and can lead to an injury. I understand he's thrown a lot of passes as a collegian, but he'll be throwing a heck of a lot more as a pro doing it full time with all the camps and practices.

Strange. His follow through is what I liked. I'll have to watch more closely as I thought his mechanics were pretty good.The guy he reminds me of a ton is Jeff Garcia. Since he's a bit smaller, he has to have good form to get the velocity he needs and both really concentrate on the follow through.

 

[redman]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

That is correct. Brennan lacks the velocity to go higher.

I'm more worried about his frame. He's only around 200lbs, if that.

Do you know what I don't like about Brennan? He's all arm. Watch him throw some time. He almost ends up facing the sideline on the follow through because he's using all arm and shoulder. I've got to think that will put way too much stress on his shoulder and can lead to an injury. I understand he's thrown a lot of passes as a collegian, but he'll be throwing a heck of a lot more as a pro doing it full time with all the camps and practices.

Strange. His follow through is what I liked. I'll have to watch more closely as I thought his mechanics were pretty good.The guy he reminds me of a ton is Jeff Garcia. Since he's a bit smaller, he has to have good form to get the velocity he needs and both really concentrate on the follow through.

Sometimes that means a QB can make all of the throws, even when his feet aren't set (which they often aren't due to pressure, scrambling or designed roll-outs). I'm not a particular Brennan fan or hater (though I wasn't impressed with the sideline sobbing in the bowl game), but that's something to consider too.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

That is correct. Brennan lacks the velocity to go higher.

I'm more worried about his frame. He's only around 200lbs, if that.

Do you know what I don't like about Brennan? He's all arm. Watch him throw some time. He almost ends up facing the sideline on the follow through because he's using all arm and shoulder. I've got to think that will put way too much stress on his shoulder and can lead to an injury. I understand he's thrown a lot of passes as a collegian, but he'll be throwing a heck of a lot more as a pro doing it full time with all the camps and practices.

Strange. His follow through is what I liked. I'll have to watch more closely as I thought his mechanics were pretty good.The guy he reminds me of a ton is Jeff Garcia. Since he's a bit smaller, he has to have good form to get the velocity he needs and both really concentrate on the follow through.

Sometimes that means a QB can make all of the throws, even when his feet aren't set (which they often aren't due to pressure, scrambling or designed roll-outs). I'm not a particular Brennan fan or hater (though I wasn't impressed with the sideline sobbing in the bowl game), but that's something to consider too.

True, it does show arm strength and the ability to throw from different platforms, but it seemed to me that even when he could step into a throw, he really threw it off his back foot and just used his arm and shoulder. Maybe that can be coached away?

 

[redman]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

That is correct. Brennan lacks the velocity to go higher.

I'm more worried about his frame. He's only around 200lbs, if that.

Do you know what I don't like about Brennan? He's all arm. Watch him throw some time. He almost ends up facing the sideline on the follow through because he's using all arm and shoulder. I've got to think that will put way too much stress on his shoulder and can lead to an injury. I understand he's thrown a lot of passes as a collegian, but he'll be throwing a heck of a lot more as a pro doing it full time with all the camps and practices.

Strange. His follow through is what I liked. I'll have to watch more closely as I thought his mechanics were pretty good.The guy he reminds me of a ton is Jeff Garcia. Since he's a bit smaller, he has to have good form to get the velocity he needs and both really concentrate on the follow through.

Sometimes that means a QB can make all of the throws, even when his feet aren't set (which they often aren't due to pressure, scrambling or designed roll-outs). I'm not a particular Brennan fan or hater (though I wasn't impressed with the sideline sobbing in the bowl game), but that's something to consider too.

True, it does show arm strength and the ability to throw from different platforms, but it seemed to me that even when he could step into a throw, he really threw it off his back foot and just used his arm and shoulder. Maybe that can be coached away?

If you're right, I'd doubt it. Aside from relatively small tweaks like how high you carry the ball, or perhaps shortening up your delivery (they've been doing this with Campbell), I'd think the NFL is probably not a good place to be making changes to a QB's mechanics.

 

[BelichicksRevenge]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

Sounds about right, but remember that first day is only rounds one and two. Brennan should go by the third round - fourth at the latest, IMO.

Kiper said the Sugar Bowl dropped him 1-1.5 rounds.Referred to Brennan as a "side'armed slinger."

Kiper stated RDs 1-3 are reserved for QBs that warrooms enivsion as a solid starter. Teams don't draft a guy who looks like "backup" material in those rounds. Used Troy Smith as a recent example. Smith was viewed as an unknown and went in the 5th (IIRC).

I can see Brennan lasting that long.

I am surprised that one game can knock a player down that much. It actually makes me respect scouts less. Wouldn't the scouts already know that Brennan has flaws without having to see him play poorly against a good team?

 

[redman]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

Sounds about right, but remember that first day is only rounds one and two. Brennan should go by the third round - fourth at the latest, IMO.

Kiper said the Sugar Bowl dropped him 1-1.5 rounds.Referred to Brennan as a "side'armed slinger."

Kiper stated RDs 1-3 are reserved for QBs that warrooms enivsion as a solid starter. Teams don't draft a guy who looks like "backup" material in those rounds. Used Troy Smith as a recent example. Smith was viewed as an unknown and went in the 5th (IIRC).

I can see Brennan lasting that long.

I am surprised that one game can knock a player down that much. It actually makes me respect scouts less. Wouldn't the scouts already know that Brennan has flaws without having to see him play poorly against a good team?

Can you think of another game in which Brennan faced anything like the pass pressure he did against UGA? I don't follow UH football, so I don't know, but I'm seriously doubting he has. That was a new test for him, and he came out (literally) looking awful.

 

[coolnerd]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

Sounds about right, but remember that first day is only rounds one and two. Brennan should go by the third round - fourth at the latest, IMO.

Kiper said the Sugar Bowl dropped him 1-1.5 rounds.Referred to Brennan as a "side'armed slinger."

Kiper stated RDs 1-3 are reserved for QBs that warrooms enivsion as a solid starter. Teams don't draft a guy who looks like "backup" material in those rounds. Used Troy Smith as a recent example. Smith was viewed as an unknown and went in the 5th (IIRC).

I can see Brennan lasting that long.

I am surprised that one game can knock a player down that much. It actually makes me respect scouts less. Wouldn't the scouts already know that Brennan has flaws without having to see him play poorly against a good team?

A would agrue a good scout would be ahead of the game, but level of competition can highlight a flaw that is not challenged when you are playing against WAC or Mountain West competition. That said, I tend to think that Mel overranks the influence of singular events, (bowl game, senior bowl, combine etc. ) Remember he down graded Big Ben significantly because of one poor game early in Ben's final season.

 

[Warpig]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

Sounds about right, but remember that first day is only rounds one and two. Brennan should go by the third round - fourth at the latest, IMO.

Kiper said the Sugar Bowl dropped him 1-1.5 rounds.Referred to Brennan as a "side'armed slinger."

Kiper stated RDs 1-3 are reserved for QBs that warrooms enivsion as a solid starter. Teams don't draft a guy who looks like "backup" material in those rounds. Used Troy Smith as a recent example. Smith was viewed as an unknown and went in the 5th (IIRC).

I can see Brennan lasting that long.

I am surprised that one game can knock a player down that much. It actually makes me respect scouts less. Wouldn't the scouts already know that Brennan has flaws without having to see him play poorly against a good team?

A would agrue a good scout would be ahead of the game, but level of competition can highlight a flaw that is not challenged when you are playing against WAC or Mountain West competition. That said, I tend to think that Mel overranks the influence of singular events, (bowl game, senior bowl, combine etc. ) Remember he down graded Big Ben significantly because of one poor game early in Ben's final season.

I don't like Kiper's rankings either. I like Bob Sorter's stuff more. Seems like he puts in more time and research than Kiper.

 

[The Oracle]

But he did say that Andre oodson was slipping too

 

[Maroney=Speed]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

I agree. 4th or 5th round. No upside. Backup QB at best at the next level.

 

[coolnerd]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

Sounds about right, but remember that first day is only rounds one and two. Brennan should go by the third round - fourth at the latest, IMO.

Kiper said the Sugar Bowl dropped him 1-1.5 rounds.Referred to Brennan as a "side'armed slinger."

Kiper stated RDs 1-3 are reserved for QBs that warrooms enivsion as a solid starter. Teams don't draft a guy who looks like "backup" material in those rounds. Used Troy Smith as a recent example. Smith was viewed as an unknown and went in the 5th (IIRC).

I can see Brennan lasting that long.

I am surprised that one game can knock a player down that much. It actually makes me respect scouts less. Wouldn't the scouts already know that Brennan has flaws without having to see him play poorly against a good team?

A would agrue a good scout would be ahead of the game, but level of competition can highlight a flaw that is not challenged when you are playing against WAC or Mountain West competition. That said, I tend to think that Mel overranks the influence of singular events, (bowl game, senior bowl, combine etc. ) Remember he down graded Big Ben significantly because of one poor game early in Ben's final season.

I don't like Kiper's rankings either. I like Bob Sorter's stuff more. Seems like he puts in more time and research than Kiper.

Kiper stuff is always a mix of his individual work and whatever pro connections that he has. Never sure what is his versus what he has been told.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Can you think of another game in which Brennan faced anything like the pass pressure he did against UGA? I don't follow UH football, so I don't know, but I'm seriously doubting he has. That was a new test for him, and he came out (literally) looking awful.

Is that entirely his fault though? It reminded me of that Matt Hasslebeck commercial where all his linemen are 180lb weaklings and just get tossed around. Georgia had their way with the entire Hawaii squad and Brennan really had no chance.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Can you think of another game in which Brennan faced anything like the pass pressure he did against UGA? I don't follow UH football, so I don't know, but I'm seriously doubting he has. That was a new test for him, and he came out (literally) looking awful.

Is that entirely his fault though? It reminded me of that Matt Hasslebeck commercial where all his linemen are 180lb weaklings and just get tossed around. Georgia had their way with the entire Hawaii squad and Brennan really had no chance.

nope not his fault.But seriously if Mel Kiper knew anything wouldnt he be employeed by an NFL team. Actually im surprised Mr.Ford hasnt hired him yet, I mean Matt Millen came from the booth, how worse could Mel do?

 

[Maroney=Speed]

Can you think of another game in which Brennan faced anything like the pass pressure he did against UGA? I don't follow UH football, so I don't know, but I'm seriously doubting he has. That was a new test for him, and he came out (literally) looking awful.

Is that entirely his fault though? It reminded me of that Matt Hasslebeck commercial where all his linemen are 180lb weaklings and just get tossed around. Georgia had their way with the entire Hawaii squad and Brennan really had no chance.

So where do you have Colt ranked? What round does He get drafted in?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Can you think of another game in which Brennan faced anything like the pass pressure he did against UGA? I don't follow UH football, so I don't know, but I'm seriously doubting he has. That was a new test for him, and he came out (literally) looking awful.

Is that entirely his fault though? It reminded me of that Matt Hasslebeck commercial where all his linemen are 180lb weaklings and just get tossed around. Georgia had their way with the entire Hawaii squad and Brennan really had no chance.

So where do you have Colt ranked? What round does He get drafted in?

Anytime from the last third of the 2nd round on. Most likely a 3rd/4th rounder.

 

[jasonbay]

12/28/2007

* Parcells now in charge at Miami. What do they do with the pick? Has to be a defensive player, based on Parcells past.

* The possibility of a trade exists because of McFadden's value.

* Dorsey or Chris Long are options depending on what defensive scheme is used next year.

* They also have to assess John Beck and decide if another QB will be drafted.

* Combine and All Star games are still coming up, but how much do pro teams use bowl games to analyze players?

* Mostly use bowl games to scout juniors since they will not be participating in any all star games.

* Key juniors- McFadden, Jones, Talib, Gholston, Laurinaitis, Jenkins

*Which game is the best to watch players that will be in the upcoming draft?

* Ga/Haw, BC/Mich St.

* Where does Brennan fit in?

* After Ryan (#1 QB), Brohm is hanging on to #2 spot barely, Woodson's stock has dropped, Flacco is on the rise

* Tebow will be tough to evaluate for the NFL draft, just as Pat White (won't play QB) and Dixon.

Is Flacco considered a first day pick? Put up Decent numbers at a small school. Nice Size, I have never seen him play though.

Since I went to UDel for 2 yrs, I picked up on the program while I was there.K.C. Keeler's the head coach, and he's built that program up to above and beyond what they were before he was there - UDel was in the NCAA Div I-AA (FCS) Championship game (lost to Appalachian State, who beat Michigan). UDel went on a tear in December just to get to that game.

This is Keeler's second effort after building up Rowan (formerly Glassboro State, NJ) to a Div-III football contender. He's a graduate of both schools.

The Fighting Blue Hens have had some good prospects on offense now as their pro-style lends itself to a lot of production. Ben Patrick (Arizona Cardinals) came out last year and now Flacco is considered to be a Top 5 QB - a Day 1 prospect (First 3 rounds). He's 6-6 and 230 so he has the size, but I've only seen a little of him. I wasn't overly impressed by his game vs. App. St. as he doesn't have great mobility (at least in that game) but does allegedly run sub-5.0. His arm position concerns me (about 3/4 delivery) which counteracts his height advantage.

The better (and deeper) prospect, IMHO, is the tailback for UDel - Omar Cuff. They compared him to Westbrook, and I do see it. He ran for 1861 yards (4.9 avg) and 34 TDs as a rusher, and he also added 52 catches for 513 yards (9.9) and 4 more TDs. He's considered a late round pick (possible UDFA) but could impress - if he gets a chance at the combine.

Wasn't the first day of the draft shortened to 2 rounds? I'm almost positive I read that somewhere.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

KU juniors Aqib Talib and Anthony Collins are scheduled to hold a press conference today and are expected to announce that they are forgoing their senior season and entering the draft.CB - Aqib Talib - 6'2/198/4.45 Former 2 star recruit has blossomed into a possible 1st round pick. Very good cover corner and also a solid tackler. Like every corner will occasionally get beaten but is good for at least 1 highlight play per game. Brings such a swagger to the defense that KU has also installed special packages for him on offense. Currently averaging 4.2 tackles per game to go along with 3 interceptions, 5 passes defensed. On offense is averaging 1 catch a game for an average of 25 yards with 4 touchdowns. Pro comparison - Charles WoodsonOT - Anthony Collins - 6'5/309/Does it really matter? Honorable Mention All Big XII as a sophomore has recently said he "can't wait" to get into the NFL. Plays with a rare enthusiasm and is a very vocal team leader. Possesses very good measurables including good strength, quick feet and long arms. High football IQ. Pro comparison - John TaitCollins was quoted in an article today as saying if he is told by the NFL advisory committee that he will go in the one of the first 2 rounds then he will leave school (he is also only 15 hours away from his degree).

Yeah, I thought he would be declaring for sure after the way he played in the bowl game. I know he mistimed the jump but when he went after that one it looked like he might be a 40"+ verticle guy.

 

[redman]

Can you think of another game in which Brennan faced anything like the pass pressure he did against UGA? I don't follow UH football, so I don't know, but I'm seriously doubting he has. That was a new test for him, and he came out (literally) looking awful.

Is that entirely his fault though? It reminded me of that Matt Hasslebeck commercial where all his linemen are 180lb weaklings and just get tossed around. Georgia had their way with the entire Hawaii squad and Brennan really had no chance.

It has nothing to do with fault, and everything to do with how he handled adversity. When the going got tough, Colt cried.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Can you think of another game in which Brennan faced anything like the pass pressure he did against UGA? I don't follow UH football, so I don't know, but I'm seriously doubting he has. That was a new test for him, and he came out (literally) looking awful.

Is that entirely his fault though? It reminded me of that Matt Hasslebeck commercial where all his linemen are 180lb weaklings and just get tossed around. Georgia had their way with the entire Hawaii squad and Brennan really had no chance.

It has nothing to do with fault, and everything to do with how he handled adversity. When the going got tough, Colt cried.

Didn't see it. Has to be frustrating to get so close yet be so far.

 

[rascal]

KU juniors Aqib Talib and Anthony Collins are scheduled to hold a press conference today and are expected to announce that they are forgoing their senior season and entering the draft.CB - Aqib Talib - 6'2/198/4.45 Former 2 star recruit has blossomed into a possible 1st round pick. Very good cover corner and also a solid tackler. Like every corner will occasionally get beaten but is good for at least 1 highlight play per game. Brings such a swagger to the defense that KU has also installed special packages for him on offense. Currently averaging 4.2 tackles per game to go along with 3 interceptions, 5 passes defensed. On offense is averaging 1 catch a game for an average of 25 yards with 4 touchdowns. Pro comparison - Charles WoodsonOT - Anthony Collins - 6'5/309/Does it really matter? Honorable Mention All Big XII as a sophomore has recently said he "can't wait" to get into the NFL. Plays with a rare enthusiasm and is a very vocal team leader. Possesses very good measurables including good strength, quick feet and long arms. High football IQ. Pro comparison - John TaitCollins was quoted in an article today as saying if he is told by the NFL advisory committee that he will go in the one of the first 2 rounds then he will leave school (he is also only 15 hours away from his degree).

Yeah, I thought he would be declaring for sure after the way he played in the bowl game. I know he mistimed the jump but when he went after that one it looked like he might be a 40"+ verticle guy.

Yeah is a solid athlete. He has no choice but to declare IMO as I don't think his stock can go any higher.

 

[John Mamula]

Allow me to be the first to say.

Brohm = Overrated

Can you expound on why you make that comment?

The guy isn't athletic and he's not tough. Further, his decision making skills are untested in the Big East...played a cupcake schedule for the vast majority of his collegiate career.No thanks.

That sounds a lot like Leinart, considering the pac-10 defenses he faced.

The Pac 10 defenses like Auburn, VA Tech, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas, Notre Dame, and Arkansas? Solid analysis.

 

[tehzig]

True baggs, true.

I don't think a Leinart/Brennan comparison is fair at all. I see Colt as more of a Garcia type, although I'll be the first to admit I don't know squat about Garcia as a college player.

I also don't think the Sugar Bowl should hurt his stock because as others have already pointed out, the guy wasn't protected at all. Any quarterback anywhere would have looked like poodoo if their offensive line was falling apart like that.

 

[jeter23]

January 11

* 4 of the 8 starting QBs this weekend were not highly drafted. Shows that teams have to give QBs time to develop and learn. Cleveland didn't know what they had with Anderson and drafted Quinn.

* Talked a few minutes about the development of Garrard and the success he has had this year.

* They discuss and Kiper skirts around making a pick for the games.

Really no draft talk this week. Hopefully it will be better in the next few weeks.

 

[got_nugs]

I don't spend a ton of time concentrating on QBs, but I think both Brohm and Woodson were unimpressive when I saw them. I understand that Kentucky won the bowl game, but I really didn't think Woodson looked that good.

Didn't Florida State only suit up 7 guys on defense?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I don't spend a ton of time concentrating on QBs, but I think both Brohm and Woodson were unimpressive when I saw them. I understand that Kentucky won the bowl game, but I really didn't think Woodson looked that good.

Didn't Florida State only suit up 7 guys on defense?

LOL, so shouldn't he have look a whole lot better?

 

[got_nugs]

Yep, that's my point. Was just agreeing with the comment.

 

[jeter23]

Friday January 18th

* They discuss the weekend's games and the fact that the favored teams (NE and GB) have the QBs that were not highly drafted coming out of college, while Rivers and Eli were both top 5 picks.

* The new trend is that all teams are looking for the next Brady, a late round QB that could be a star.

* Discuss the QB class of Roethlisberger, Rivers and Eli. All 3 were ranked closely at the time and are still very close to each other.

* Are the Pats the best team ever? Kiper thinks so as they take advantage of their weapons. They don't have a collection of stars, but they all do their job. The system works for them. If they finish 19-0, Kiper says they would be at the top, based on record, but not personnel. The great Steeler and 49er teams had more talent.

 

[Chadstroma]

 

[footballgeek]

Ditto

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Friday January 18th

* They discuss the weekend's games and the fact that the favored teams (NE and GB) have the QBs that were not highly drafted coming out of college, while Rivers and Eli were both top 5 picks.

Favre was a 2nd rounder. I guess that's not a top 5 pick, but it's still high.

 

[jeter23]

Friday January 18th

* They discuss the weekend's games and the fact that the favored teams (NE and GB) have the QBs that were not highly drafted coming out of college, while Rivers and Eli were both top 5 picks.

Favre was a 2nd rounder. I guess that's not a top 5 pick, but it's still high.

Favre was actually a 2nd rounder, but I thought that conversation was odd as well. Seemed like they were stretching things to make their point, that the lower drafted QBs were favored over the top picks.

 

[jeter23]

You are on top of things Andy, editing before my post, but I agree with you overall.

 

[BLOX]

Anyone hear him on today's show? I only caught the part about Colt Brennan being a 2nd day pick.

That is correct. Brennan lacks the velocity to go higher.

I'm more worried about his frame. He's only around 200lbs, if that.

Do you know what I don't like about Brennan? He's all arm. Watch him throw some time. He almost ends up facing the sideline on the follow through because he's using all arm and shoulder. I've got to think that will put way too much stress on his shoulder and can lead to an injury. I understand he's thrown a lot of passes as a collegian, but he'll be throwing a heck of a lot more as a pro doing it full time with all the camps and practices.

Strange. His follow through is what I liked. I'll have to watch more closely as I thought his mechanics were pretty good.The guy he reminds me of a ton is Jeff Garcia. Since he's a bit smaller, he has to have good form to get the velocity he needs and both really concentrate on the follow through.

Sometimes that means a QB can make all of the throws, even when his feet aren't set (which they often aren't due to pressure, scrambling or designed roll-outs). I'm not a particular Brennan fan or hater (though I wasn't impressed with the sideline sobbing in the bowl game), but that's something to consider too.

True, it does show arm strength and the ability to throw from different platforms, but it seemed to me that even when he could step into a throw, he really threw it off his back foot and just used his arm and shoulder. Maybe that can be coached away?

It can be coached away. It has to be the right team and coaches to do it though. Aaron Rodgers had a funky throwing style when he first came to Green Bay, it's been gone for about two years now. His throwing style is much more professional. He seems to have adapted to the fundamental mechanics nicely.So, it can be done, but it depends on whether the coaches have experience developing and changing QBs habits.

 

[Chunky Soup]

* Are the Pats the best team ever? Kiper thinks so as they take advantage of their weapons. They don't have a collection of stars, but they all do their job. The system works for them. If they finish 19-0, Kiper says they would be at the top, based on record, but not personnel. The great Steeler and 49er teams had more talent.

I hate this argument.

 

[aerolaw]

2. Cade McNown and Culpepper, and even to a lesser extent, Akili Smith, were more accomplished in college than McNabb......McNabb was selected ahead of all three

Sorry to single out only one part of your post, but McNabb was much more highly regarded in college than those other guys were. Akili Smith was a one-year wonder who, based solely upon draft position, was as big of a bust as Ryan Leaf.

Right, and correct me if I am wrong but McNabb had some big games in the Big East against Miami...in fact I believe he beat them like a drum his Senior Year...I bring that up because guys like Brett Favre took Southern Miss into Tallahassee and knocked off the mighty Seminoles in 1991 IIRC...those types of performances matter greatly when they get to the next level. I don't remember Akili Smith tearing up any of the great dynasty college football programs.

Miami was on probation back then and was getting beaten like a drum almost every week, so wouldnt put much importance on mcnabb beating them, then

 

[jeter23]

January 25

* Begin by discussing where the Pats dynasty ranks among some of the other great teams of the past. Brady will go down as one of the best QBs ever. Belichick won after Brady got there. They have taken advantage of the rules better than anyone else.

* '85 Bears are the best team looking at just one single year. This team has taken it to a different level. This would go up there, maybe ahead of the '85 Bears.

* Mel's 1st round projection came out this week, then the Dolphins announce they are looking to move the pick. They will not have a lot of interest in the pick. Dorsey and Ellis are very close in their grade. Matt Ryan and Chris Long are up there as elite prospects too. No one will be willing to move up to No. 1. Trying to find a buyer will not be easy.

* Golic says Dorsey won't be the pick at No. 1. Who would they take if not Dorsey? Kiper says Chris Long and that they would not take McFadden. Long and Dorsey both fit the Parcells makeup.

Hopefully there will be much more draft talk after the SB. I am surprised that there was no mention of the Shrine game/Sr Bowl the past two weeks.

 

[jeter23]

February 8th

Kiper was not on M&M this morning, but he was on the Herd.

* What makes this draft special? High profile seniors like Dorsey, Long, Long, Ryan, Ellis all as elite guys.

* Deepest position?

RB throughout the draft, there will be depth like there was with Bradshaw last year.

CB is also very deep with Talib coming out.

TE is also deep with pass catchers.

* Shallow position? Safety. Phillips is the best, but played like a 3rd rounder this year.

* Who would Kiper take at 1? You have to assess Beck first. If they are not impressed with him, then Ryan makes sense. Tried to match up Ryan with EManning, Rivers, Ben as far as grades and he compares well to them. He grades as a 9.5, same as Ben and Eli.

* Ranks them:

McFadden

Dorsey

Ryan

J Long

C Long

Ellis

* Underrated players?

LT Chris Williams, Vandy- put on weight, athletic

OG Chilo Rachal, USC- could go late 1st

* Big play WRs in 1st?

Kelly- gets down field and beats defenders, Bills as option

Manningham- likes to get outside, has had trouble with drops, Cowboys would have interest

* Working down draft board?

Woodson- has been falling since November, 3rd round is a possibility

Brennan- 5th-7th round

 

[jeter23]

April 11th

I haven't updated this for a while, as Kiper has not been on with M&M many weeks. He was on Friday, and here is the recap.

* Dolphins negotiating with Jake Long, Vernon Gholston. Both picks make sense considering Parcells is there. He sees Long as a Jumbo Elliott. They want to have the player signed before the draft. If they can't sign J Long, they will move on to Gholston. He will be a hybrid like Ware, McGinest. They will not be able to move out of the top spot. They are drafting based on need. Gholston is a better fit then C Long. Kiper would take Dorsey first, but Parcells won't. They have 3 or 4 options and the one that gets a deal done will be the pick.

* Where will Ryan go? ATL, KC, BAL Ryan won't go later than Balt. Flacco is next and if he had gone to a D1 school, he would be the top QB. ATL has many picks and could move up to the late 1st to get Flacco. Henne is rising and Brohm is falling. The order is Ryan, Flacco, Henne, Brohm. 2 1st round QB and 2 2nd round QBs.

* Where will the trading start? Dorsey, Long, Long, Ellis, McFadden, Ryan, Gholston are the elite 7, so after them the 8th guy is a dropoff. KC needs an OL, so that makes it tough for them. Albert could go as high as 5. Ellis is the wildcard.

They mentioned Tuesday that they would be doing a draft special with Kiper and McShay. I will try to post a recap of that as well.

 

[Ed Wood]

Thanks, Jeter.

 

[kremenull]

April 11th

I haven't updated this for a while, as Kiper has not been on with M&M many weeks. He was on Friday, and here is the recap.

* Dolphins negotiating with Jake Long, Vernon Gholston. Both picks make sense considering Parcells is there. He sees Long as a Jumbo Elliott. They want to have the player signed before the draft. If they can't sign J Long, they will move on to Gholston. He will be a hybrid like Ware, McGinest. They will not be able to move out of the top spot. They are drafting based on need. Gholston is a better fit then C Long. Kiper would take Dorsey first, but Parcells won't. They have 3 or 4 options and the one that gets a deal done will be the pick.

* Where will Ryan go? ATL, KC, BAL Ryan won't go later than Balt. Flacco is next and if he had gone to a D1 school, he would be the top QB. ATL has many picks and could move up to the late 1st to get Flacco. Henne is rising and Brohm is falling. The order is Ryan, Flacco, Henne, Brohm. 2 1st round QB and 2 2nd round QBs.

* Where will the trading start? Dorsey, Long, Long, Ellis, McFadden, Ryan, Gholston are the elite 7, so after them the 8th guy is a dropoff. KC needs an OL, so that makes it tough for them. Albert could go as high as 5. Ellis is the wildcard.

They mentioned Tuesday that they would be doing a draft special with Kiper and McShay. I will try to post a recap of that as well.

Does this mean that the draft special is this coming Tuesday.......or they just made mention of this last Tuesday? I'd like to tune in as well, so just trying to get it straight........

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

* Are the Pats the best team ever? Kiper thinks so as they take advantage of their weapons. They don't have a collection of stars, but they all do their job. The system works for them. If they finish 19-0, Kiper says they would be at the top, based on record, but not personnel. The great Steeler and 49er teams had more talent.

I hate this argument.

LOLdont matter now.