:MERGED: Manning's Legacy Article (1 Viewer)

[Ed Wood]

#3. looks alot like Dan Fouts - i.e., great stats, no BIG WINS.

Or looks a lot like John Elway. He'll win a couple three before he's done.

 

[Joe Bryant]

First off,  I do not HATE Peyton Manning.  However, I do have opinions about NFL football.  I am in my mid-40's and since season of Super Bowl III, can probably count on one hand the number of NFL playoff games that I have not watched on TV.  Several hundred playoff games, lots of terrific QB play ---  Namath, Bradshaw, Stabler, Staubach, Montana, Elway, Young, Favre, Brady, Delhomme (?) and several that I am obviously forgetting.  Peyton Manning's body of work in the NFL post-season does not put him in the same company as these other QBs.  Unfair, perhaps (I did limit this to "post-season" only).  Vince Lombardi once said that the one thing that he did not like about the game of football was the position of quarterback -- as the position was of such paramount importance that it somehow served to undermine the concept of the team and that no individual piece is bigger than the whole.  Fair point, perhaps Vince went a little over the top to make a point.  QB's -- too much credit when they win, too much blame when they lose, but these are the guys that NFL teams throw high 8 figure contracts at (with much of this money guaranteed) so I shed no tears when they are thoroughly borescoped after a loss.

A lot has been said on a thread that has now been locked, so I'll limit my comments to a couple of points:

#1 "Peyton Manning is clearly the greatest QB in the NFL today and playoff losses are a result of the fact that football is a team game and the Colts' opponents in these games greatly outplayed the entire Colts team and in no way did Manning's individual effort in these losses diminish his stock as the NFL's best QB" - I find it down right comical that virtually any other viewpoint is categorized, in some cases by otherwise intelligent NFL analysts (Wood, Ashcroft), as a "Manning HATE statement".  And I use to think that Mets fans had inferiority complexes.

#2  IMO,  Tom Brady is a better NFL QB than Peyton Manning.  There I said it, a statement in the warped view of some that is a "Manning HATE statement".  I am a JETS fan, thus I do not like or ever root for the Patriots.  Thus, I don't think that I bring a fans' bias to my assessment.  I base this on the fact that Brady is as "tough as nails" and consistently brings his "A game" to the field in the playoffs.  I do not think that Brady simply tags along for the ride as part of a great team, I think that he has had to perform at the very top of his game to bring home post-season wins. Brady didn't quite have his "A game" versus Denver, yet I still like how Brady played in defeat better than I do how Manning played in defeat vs Pitt.  A critical difference that is greatly highlighted in the post-season in which Brady is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Manning is in his ability to hang in the pocket in the presence of a pass rush and make strong, accurate throws.  The differential in this important ability was never more evident than this past weekend.  Denver brought a ton of pressure against Brady and there were numerous times when Brady exhibited the classic pocket toughness to "hang in" and make a strong, confident, accurate throw down the field, right before he was to get hit.  On the other hand,  Manning in the face of pressure develops happy feet and makes weak, inaccurate throws in the face of pressure.  The difference between the two in this key area has nothing to do with "mobility" or "physical gifts", but rather it is all about "toughness".

#3  Here is an excerpt from today, Indianapolis Star by Kravitz (who I guess is just another person who HATES Peyton Manning):

"Another big game. Another big stage. Another spectacular flameout, a meltdown of epic proportions.

Seen this movie before? There was 41-0 to the Jets in 2003. There was 24-14 in 2004 and 21-3 in 2005, both in New England. And then there was this, the worst of them all, a game Peyton Manning, in particular, may never live down.

Even now, the clouds of doubt are gathering around Manning, and the whispers are so loud, they seemed to be artificially enhanced. He can't win the big one. Didn't win them in college. Hasn't won them in the pros. Not the biggest ones."

#4  This year everything was set up for the Colts.  Peyton Manning is a classic "momentum QB".  When everything is breaking right with the well-oiled Colts machine there is no QB on the planet that can match Peyton's stat line.  He now has a 3-6 playoff record, and his stat line in those 3 wins was very impressive.  However, two of those were in complete blowouts at home and the 3rd against KC was against the worst defense seen in the NFL playoffs since the Bass-led Charger D of the '80's.  I would love to see Manning win a big NFL playoff game, on the road (outdoors) in a game in which his team trails in the 4th qtr.  This year he could have diffused a lot of his critics without ever having to get close to playing an outdoor, road game.  The Colts were clearly the best team in the NFL during the regular season, yet based upon what we saw yesterday I think that in addition to the loss to Pitt, the Colts would not have been able to win vs Denver or New England.  Thus, somehow the Manning-led Colts morphed from the best team in the NFL into perhaps the 4th best team in the AFC. 

#5  Manning's comments regarding the offensive showed a lack of leadership and accountability.

#6  As a fan, I am not enamored with Manning's persistent utilizing and fake line calls.  I know that it has its moments.  However, it puts unnecessary pressure on the line to hold their stances.  The false start penalty that negated the Colts 1st half TD was huge.

#7  I know that this thread is not about Eli, but I find it interesting that Baby Bro had an extremely ugly post-season debut.  Yes, he is young.  However, he has quite a bit more NFL experience and more "skills" than Rex Grossman.  Yet somehow, Grossman showed me a lot more than Eli did in what was the first post-season game for either young QB.

#8  I don't think that I have ever read a more stupid comment than the one that suggested that it is "Manning's strong Christian faith" that causes some to HATE him.

#9.  Many highly regarded NFL analysts are espousing similar views on Manning today.  Not all, but a significant number.  Probably none of these folks HATE Peyton Manning.  Yet somehow in the twisted world of denial in which the faithful Manning followers reside, they are all "Manning HATERS".

Hi Wilbur, Isn't this the same thing you posted in the other thread?

J

 

[gman8343]

First off,  I do not HATE Peyton Manning.   However, I do have opinions about NFL football.  I am in my mid-40's and since season of Super Bowl III, can probably count on one hand the number of NFL playoff games that I have not watched on TV.  Several hundred playoff games, lots of terrific QB play ---  Namath, Bradshaw, Stabler, Staubach, Montana, Elway, Young, Favre, Brady, Delhomme (?) and several that I am obviously forgetting.  Peyton Manning's body of work in the NFL post-season does not put him in the same company as these other QBs.  Unfair, perhaps (I did limit this to "post-season" only).   Vince Lombardi once said that the one thing that he did not like about the game of football was the position of quarterback -- as the position was of such paramount importance that it somehow served to undermine the concept of the team and that no individual piece is bigger than the whole.   Fair point, perhaps Vince went a little over the top to make a point.  QB's -- too much credit when they win, too much blame when they lose, but these are the guys that NFL teams throw high 8 figure contracts at (with much of this money guaranteed) so I shed no tears when they are thoroughly borescoped after a loss.

A lot has been said on a thread that has now been locked, so I'll limit my comments to a couple of points:

#1 "Peyton Manning is clearly the greatest QB in the NFL today and playoff losses are a result of the fact that football is a team game and the Colts' opponents in these games greatly outplayed the entire Colts team and in no way did Manning's individual effort in these losses diminish his stock as the NFL's best QB" - I find it down right comical that virtually any other viewpoint is categorized, in some cases by otherwise intelligent NFL analysts (Wood, Ashcroft), as a "Manning HATE statement".  And I use to think that Mets fans had inferiority complexes.

#2  IMO,  Tom Brady is a better NFL QB than Peyton Manning.   There I said it, a statement in the warped view of some that is a "Manning HATE statement".   I am a JETS fan, thus I do not like or ever root for the Patriots.  Thus, I don't think that I bring a fans' bias to my assessment.  I base this on the fact that Brady is as "tough as nails" and consistently brings his "A game" to the field in the playoffs.  I do not think that Brady simply tags along for the ride as part of a great team, I think that he has had to perform at the very top of his game to bring home post-season wins. Brady didn't quite have his "A game" versus Denver, yet I still like how Brady played in defeat better than I do how Manning played in defeat vs Pitt.   A critical difference that is greatly highlighted in the post-season in which Brady is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Manning is in his ability to hang in the pocket in the presence of a pass rush and make strong, accurate throws.  The differential in this important ability was never more evident than this past weekend.  Denver brought a ton of pressure against Brady and there were numerous times when Brady exhibited the classic pocket toughness to "hang in" and make a strong, confident, accurate throw down the field, right before he was to get hit.  On the other hand,  Manning in the face of pressure develops happy feet and makes weak, inaccurate throws in the face of pressure.  The difference between the two in this key area has nothing to do with "mobility" or "physical gifts", but rather it is all about "toughness".

#3  Here is an excerpt from today, Indianapolis Star by Kravitz (who I guess is just another person who HATES Peyton Manning):

"Another big game. Another big stage. Another spectacular flameout, a meltdown of epic proportions.

Seen this movie before? There was 41-0 to the Jets in 2003. There was 24-14 in 2004 and 21-3 in 2005, both in New England. And then there was this, the worst of them all, a game Peyton Manning, in particular, may never live down.

Even now, the clouds of doubt are gathering around Manning, and the whispers are so loud, they seemed to be artificially enhanced. He can't win the big one. Didn't win them in college. Hasn't won them in the pros. Not the biggest ones."

#4  This year everything was set up for the Colts.  Peyton Manning is a classic "momentum QB".  When everything is breaking right with the well-oiled Colts machine there is no QB on the planet that can match Peyton's stat line.  He now has a 3-6 playoff record, and his stat line in those 3 wins was very impressive.   However, two of those were in complete blowouts at home and the 3rd against KC was against the worst defense seen in the NFL playoffs since the Bass-led Charger D of the '80's.  I would love to see Manning win a big NFL playoff game, on the road (outdoors) in a game in which his team trails in the 4th qtr.   This year he could have diffused a lot of his critics without ever having to get close to playing an outdoor, road game.   The Colts were clearly the best team in the NFL during the regular season, yet based upon what we saw yesterday I think that in addition to the loss to Pitt, the Colts would not have been able to win vs Denver or New England.  Thus, somehow the Manning-led Colts morphed from the best team in the NFL into perhaps the 4th best team in the AFC.  

#5  Manning's comments regarding the offensive showed a lack of leadership and accountability.

#6   As a fan, I am not enamored with Manning's persistent utilizing and fake line calls.  I know that it has its moments.  However, it puts unnecessary pressure on the line to hold their stances.  The false start penalty that negated the Colts 1st half TD was huge.

#7  I know that this thread is not about Eli, but I find it interesting that Baby Bro had an extremely ugly post-season debut.  Yes, he is young.  However, he has quite a bit more NFL experience and more "skills" than Rex Grossman.  Yet somehow, Grossman showed me a lot more than Eli did in what was the first post-season game for either young QB.

#8   I don't think that I have ever read a more stupid comment than the one that suggested that it is "Manning's strong Christian faith" that causes some to HATE him.

#9.   Many highly regarded NFL analysts are espousing similar views on Manning today.  Not all, but a significant number.  Probably none of these folks HATE Peyton Manning.  Yet somehow in the twisted world of denial in which the faithful Manning followers reside, they are all "Manning HATERS".

Hi Wilbur, Isn't this the same thing you posted in the other thread?

J

What's so funny about that?

 

[BlueOnion]

Just curious if the Steelers lose a second conference championship game in a row, does the pattern start to define Ben Roethlisberger as well?

 

[gman8343]

Just curious if the Steelers lose a second conference championship game in a row, does the pattern start to define Ben Roethlisberger as well?

Nah, Ben's still a youngster.

 

[jurb26]

Wouldn't Ben still be 2-2 in the playoffs with a loose. Manning is what, 3-6. Bit of a difference I think.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

no. he just won 2 road games in the playoffs and is 3-1 overall in the postseason during just his first 2 years as a pro. nobody gave them a chance against Indy and he was probably the main reason they won that game. winning in Denver would also be very tough to do.meanwhile, Manning is much older, more experienced, is surrounded by more talent, etc and he also had the benefit of playing at home. they were favored by 10 points and he once again saved his worst performance of the year for his final game of the season.

 

[dudaman]

Just curious if the Steelers lose a second conference championship game in a row, does the pattern start to define Ben Roethlisberger as well?

Nah, Ben's still a youngster.

Totally agree with gman. Ben has that "look" of a champion to me. How stacked is the AFC with young stud QB's?

 

[gman8343]

meanwhile, Manning is much older, more experienced, is surrounded by more talent, etc and he also had the benefit of playing at home. they were favored by 10 points and he once again saved his worst performance of the year for his final game of the season.

This is the part that's inexusable IMO. He keeps doing that every year it seems like.

 

[pizzatyme]

As a Colts fan, I came to a stark reality yesterday. I now have doubts that we'll ever make it to a Superbowl with Manning.I think things will need to change dramatically for us to get there:#1 we need a coach to come in and force Manning to play a game plan. The game plan can't be made on the fly at the line each time. And especially in a 2 minute drill.#2 we need a coach that believes in the run in crunch time.#3 we need a Defensive coordinator that knows how to run blitz packages. Ron Turner is not that guy!#4 we need to work on playing physical against a blitzing 3-4 defense.Some of these things will come, but I don't think we'll ever see the reins taken away from Manning.I am sick of the excuses, I love the Colts, but I am at a loss.It would almost be better to not have Manning at this point.

 

[BlueOnion]

no. he just won 2 road games in the playoffs and is 3-1 overall in the postseason during just his first 2 years as a pro. nobody gave them a chance against Indy and he was probably the main reason they won that game. winning in Denver would also be very tough to do.

I am not going to dispute the Manning label, it is what it is. But Big Ben almost single handedly gave the game to the Jets last year and then turned around and gave the AFC Championship game to the Patriots last year (at home).Roethlisberger did show composure yesterday, but if he lays another egg in his second AFC Championship game, it may not define him yet (his age), but the projection will start to be hard to reverse.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

when will the Manning threads stop?

 

[Da Guru]

Manning never won a title in highschool, college or the pros.Good QB, but has trouble in big games!

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

no. he just won 2 road games in the playoffs and is 3-1 overall in the postseason during just his first 2 years as a pro. nobody gave them a chance against Indy and he was probably the main reason they won that game. winning in Denver would also be very tough to do.

I am not going to dispute the Manning label, it is what it is. But Big Ben almost single handedly gave the game to the Jets last year and then turned around and gave the AFC Championship game to the Patriots last year (at home).

HE WAS A ROOKIE. are you kidding me?

 

[Da Guru]

Manning is 30, Big Ben 23.Manning has a proven track record of failure.

 

[BlueOnion]

no. he just won 2 road games in the playoffs and is 3-1 overall in the postseason during just his first 2 years as a pro. nobody gave them a chance against Indy and he was probably the main reason they won that game. winning in Denver would also be very tough to do.

I am not going to dispute the Manning label, it is what it is. But Big Ben almost single handedly gave the game to the Jets last year and then turned around and gave the AFC Championship game to the Patriots last year (at home).

HE WAS A ROOKIE. are you kidding me?

All legacies have to start somewhere.

 

[BlueOnion]

Manning is 30, Big Ben 23.

Manning has a proven track record of failure.

My point exactly. Sure Peyton has a proven track record of failure in the big game, but if Roethlisberger loses again, isn't he paving the same road?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Manning is 30, Big Ben 23.

Manning has a proven track record of failure.

My point exactly. Sure Peyton has a proven track record of failure in the big game, but if Roethlisberger loses again, isn't he paving the same road?

no. most QBs with his age and experience level wouldn't even be playing, much less leading their team to back to back AFC Championship games in their first 2 years in the league.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Manning is 30, Big Ben 23.

Manning has a proven track record of failure.

My point exactly. Sure Peyton has a proven track record of failure in the big game, but if Roethlisberger loses again, isn't he paving the same road?

Not really.Manning didn't have the chance to blow up in the postseason as a rookie after hitting the "rookie wall."

Roethlisberger was terrible in the postseason last year because he was mentally and physically worn out. Steelers fans knew this year was going to be different based on the way he was playing down the stretch.

 

[Godsbrother]

no. he just won 2 road games in the playoffs and is 3-1 overall in the postseason during just his first 2 years as a pro. nobody gave them a chance against Indy and he was probably the main reason they won that game. winning in Denver would also be very tough to do.

I am not going to dispute the Manning label, it is what it is. But Big Ben almost single handedly gave the game to the Jets last year and then turned around and gave the AFC Championship game to the Patriots last year (at home).Roethlisberger did show composure yesterday, but if he lays another egg in his second AFC Championship game, it may not define him yet (his age), but the projection will start to be hard to reverse.

Ben has gotten his team to the AFC Championship Game twice in his first two seasons, something Manning has been unable to do in his 8 seasons.

 

[BlueOnion]

no

Come on Aaron. If the guy opens his career by going 0-2 in the AFC Championship Game (one at home and one on the road), how do you not make the case Roethlisberger fails to deliver in the big game?

 

[BlueOnion]

Ben has gotten his team to the AFC Championship Game twice in his first two seasons, something Manning has been unable to do in his 8 seasons.

But we are not comparing Roethlisberger to Manning (well not in this thread anyway). I am simply asking if Roethlisberger fails to deliver an AFC Championship again, why does this pattern of failure not start to define his career?

 

[gman8343]

no

Come on Aaron. If the guy opens his career by going 0-2 in the AFC Championship Game (one at home and one on the road), how do you not make the case Roethlisberger fails to deliver in the big game?

this has to be a huge fishing trip. He's in his 2nd year.

 

[BlueOnion]

no

Come on Aaron. If the guy opens his career by going 0-2 in the AFC Championship Game (one at home and one on the road), how do you not make the case Roethlisberger fails to deliver in the big game?

this has to be a huge fishing trip. He's in his 2nd year.

I think Marino's legacy was started in his second year.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Ben has gotten his team to the AFC Championship Game twice in his first two seasons, something Manning has been unable to do in his 8 seasons.

But we are not comparing Roethlisberger to Manning (well not in this thread anyway). I am simply asking if Roethlisberger fails to deliver an AFC Championship again, why does this pattern of failure not start to define his career?

you sure you didn't mean to start this thread about Donovan McNabb?

 

[BlueOnion]

you sure you didn't mean to start this thread about Donovan McNabb?

We could lump McNabb into the Manning, Marino and Roethlisberger group. It is a little premature to put Roethlisberger in the same bag, but if he loses a 2nd AFC Championship game in a row, he will almost have two feet in the bag.

 

[P Boy]

The Manning/Dungy combo is starting to look particularly daunting right now. IND had everything going for it this year & still managed to get beat at home by a team other than NE. I can't possibly see IND being in a better position to win in the future under Manning than they were this year.That gorilla is gaining weight fast.....

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

you sure you didn't mean to start this thread about Donovan McNabb?

We could lump McNabb into the Manning, Marino and Roethlisberger group. It is a little premature to put Roethlisberger in the same bag, but if he loses a 2nd AFC Championship game in a row, he will almost have two feet in the bag.

guy wins as a 10 point road underdog against the best team in the NFL and you think he's a choke artist?

gllll selling that argument to anyone.

 

[cstu]

Manning is 30, Big Ben 23.

Manning has a proven track record of failure.

My point exactly. Sure Peyton has a proven track record of failure in the big game, but if Roethlisberger loses again, isn't he paving the same road?

I'm with you on this. People see what they want to see and right now everyone is on the bandwagon. A couple more big playoff losses and you will see people turn on him just as they have on Manning. However, it's easier to be called a choker when you are a numbers QB during the regular season rather than one who isn't the main focus of the offense like Roethlisberger.

 

[bagger.]

Just curious if the Steelers lose a second conference championship game in a row, does the pattern start to define Ben Roethlisberger as well?

Why? Ben has been more successful than Manning in his first two seasons with less talent.

 

[bagger.]

no. he just won 2 road games in the playoffs and is 3-1 overall in the postseason during just his first 2 years as a pro. nobody gave them a chance against Indy and he was probably the main reason they won that game. winning in Denver would also be very tough to do.

I am not going to dispute the Manning label, it is what it is. But Big Ben almost single handedly gave the game to the Jets last year and then turned around and gave the AFC Championship game to the Patriots last year (at home).Roethlisberger did show composure yesterday, but if he lays another egg in his second AFC Championship game, it may not define him yet (his age), but the projection will start to be hard to reverse.

Actually, not really.Just because you are a fan of a loser QB don't try to group other good QBs in with him.

 

[bagger.]

you sure you didn't mean to start this thread about Donovan McNabb?

We could lump McNabb into the Manning, Marino and Roethlisberger group. It is a little premature to put Roethlisberger in the same bag, but if he loses a 2nd AFC Championship game in a row, he will almost have two feet in the bag.

no, mcnabb has been to a super bowl.

 

[C & C]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall the "Manning can't win the big game." label starting while he was still at Tennessee.Can anyone more familiar with Tennessee football confirm or deny this?If this is the case there's alot more history to it.

 

[pizzatyme]

The Manning/Dungy combo is starting to look particularly daunting right now. IND had everything going for it this year & still managed to get beat at home by a team other than NE. I can't possibly see IND being in a better position to win in the future under Manning than they were this year.

That gorilla is gaining weight fast.....

As a Colts fan, I couldn't agree more. But, what am I to do?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall the "Manning can't win the big game." label starting while he was still at Tennessee.

Can anyone more familiar with Tennessee football confirm or deny this?

If this is the case there's alot more history to it.

they could never beat the Gators while he was there. as soon as he left, they beat the Gators with Tee Martin and wound up winning the national championship.

 

[BlueOnion]

guy wins as a 10 point road underdog against the best team in the NFL and you think he's a choke artist?

gllll selling that argument to anyone.

Come on Aaron, where did I say Roethlisberger is a choker? I am just asking the question up front that if a guy opens his career with two straight Conference Championship Game losses, does it start to define his career?

 

[P Boy]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall the "Manning can't win the big game." label starting while he was still at Tennessee.

Can anyone more familiar with Tennessee football confirm or deny this?

If this is the case there's alot more history to it.

Yes, it did. If I'm not mistaken, Peyton couldn't get Tennessee past Florida for 4 years, which blocked them from possible national championship contention.

 

[P Boy]

The Manning/Dungy combo is starting to look particularly daunting right now.  IND had everything going for it this year & still managed to get beat at home by a team other than NE.  I can't possibly see IND being in a better position to win in the future under Manning than they were this year.

That gorilla is gaining weight fast.....

As a Colts fan, I couldn't agree more. But, what am I to do?

Man, I'm going to regret saying this because of the IND success under him, but I think you need a coach other than Dungy to get to the next level. When playoff time comes, he just seems to get ultra-conservative, and I think it really handicaps his teams (his success vs DEN not withstanding).

 

[BlueOnion]

Just because you are a fan of a loser QB don't try to group other good QBs in with him.

I am only judging Roethlisberger on his own performance and more pointedly his performance in Championship games. He already laid an egg last year and he has an opportunity to stop a small monkey on his back from growing into an oversized gorilla.



If the guy goes 0-2 in the Championship Game, the guy is 0-2 in the Championship Game.

 

[P Boy]

Just because you are a fan of a loser QB don't try to group other good QBs in with him.

I am only judging Roethlisberger on his own performance and more pointedly his performance in Championship games. He already laid an egg last year and he has an opportunity to stop a small monkey on his back from growing into an oversized gorilla.



If the guy goes 0-2 in the Championship Game, the guy is 0-2 in the Championship Game.

Could we please keep some perspective here? Manning is a seasoned vet with a bad track record in big games that extends into college. Roethlisberger is in his 2nd year in the NFL, probably not even half way through his learning curve as far as being an NFL QB goes.

 

[bagger.]

but going 0-2 in his first 2 seasons > than what manning did

 

[Godsbrother]

Just because you are a fan of a loser QB don't try to group other good QBs in with him.

I am only judging Roethlisberger on his own performance and more pointedly his performance in Championship games. He already laid an egg last year and he has an opportunity to stop a small monkey on his back from growing into an oversized gorilla.



If the guy goes 0-2 in the Championship Game, the guy is 0-2 in the Championship Game.

In his second year Ben has already won a bigger game than Peyton Manning ever has. Think about that.

 

[The Juggernaut]

If the Steelers can't beat the Broncos on Sunday, I won't label him, but I see the point of "paving the road."Bill on the other hand........

 

[BlueOnion]

Could we please keep some perspective here? Manning is a seasoned vet with a bad track record in big games that extends into college. Roethlisberger is in his 2nd year in the NFL, probably not even half way through his learning curve as far as being an NFL QB goes.

My point exactly. Manning's track record had to start somewhere and if Roethlisberger continues on his current pace, he will have the same destination as Manning. If someone doesn't acknowledge 0-2 in Championship Games is not the beginning of a losing track record in big games, then they have already defined about Roethlisberger before Roethlisberger has been able to define himself.

 

[cstu]

Just curious if the Steelers lose a second conference championship game in a row, does the pattern start to define Ben Roethlisberger as well?

Why? Ben has been more successful than Manning in his first two seasons with less talent.

Less talent? You mean his which has a rushing YPC ranking of 29th, 26th, 11th and 24th with Dungy as head coach? Until the Colts can rely on their running game to gain yards, they will always be failures in the postseason.

 

[jetpack]

Could we please keep some perspective here?  Manning is a seasoned vet with a bad track record in big games that extends into college.  Roethlisberger is in his 2nd year in the NFL, probably not even half way through his learning curve as far as being an NFL QB goes.

My point exactly. Manning's track record had to start somewhere and if Roethlisberger continues on his current pace, he will have the same destination as Manning. If someone doesn't acknowledge 0-2 in Championship Games is not the beginning of a losing track record in big games, then they have already defined about Roethlisberger before Roethlisberger has been able to define himself.

I think you're the first person I've heard of who's looked at a QB leading a team to the Championship game his first two years in the league and see it as somehow defining himself as a "guy who can't win the big one" as if leaders on teams that come up short should be defined as losers somehow. Certainly wouldn't call Marino that. Or Manning frankly. Flawed premise to begin with.

 

[beto]

As for manning, i am saddened by the "hate". He is a great QB and maybe someday he will pull a Young and get the monkey off his back. Even then the haters will look at it all and think it took him long enough and one win doesnt fix all the failures. Maybe he will be marino or kelly, maybe someday he will turn into Elway and Young. He is 30 right? still has several good years left.

Good point. He's only 30. He still has a chance to play better in playoff games. I though this would be the year but it wasn't.

 

[ooofffaaa]

SD vs Mia wasnt a big win?

Kellen Winslow was the difference in the game your referring to. Not Fouts.That performance by Winslow is still one of the greatest performances I have ever seen in my lifetime. And that is coming from a long time Dolphin fan.

 

[BlueOnion]

This is the first game Manning actually choked in my opinion. Prior to this year, Manning only knew one thing and that was to throw the ball. Although probably the best at it, it is not the whole game. Earlier this year Manning showed an ability to grasp this concept, the importance of running the ball and putting the offense in a good situation.That is what indicts Peyton more so this year than in past years; he failed to do something he had shown everyone he could do in the regular season.Their best drive was when he used Edge; I think he had 40 some odd yards in that first touchdown drive for the Colts. Then with 40 seconds to go, 3 timeouts and being at the Steeler 28 with 2nd and 2, Manning went for the endzone instead of running Edge for the first down.

 

[reg]

when will the Manning threads stop?

when he wins