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Merged Spygate thread (1 Viewer)

I thought about this some more and IMO, this is the fault of someone in the production company. Probably it lies with whoever is responsible for getting permits, credentials etc., as it would make sense to me that those duties would include finding out what the local rules/laws are and passing those onto the film crew.
The scout gets no blame from me as he is there to perform his scouting duties, not supervise the film crew. So, he wouldn't be privy to what permissions the film crew received.

As far as punishment goes. I don't believe there was any competitive advantage sought nor realized. If this was any other team, punishment would be minimal. However, it's the Patriots and 2 factors play a role.
1 - This is the 2nd illegal filming infraction for the organization (to be fair, the 1st was 12 years ago).
2 - Roger sometimes seems to issue punishment based on public perception, media bias or other owners' influence as much, or more, as actual facts (e.g. Zeke's suspension). Media bias and public perception is obvious, sometimes bordering on hysteria but I think a lot of that level is due to hate, trolling or attention seeking.
I'm guessing the punishment will be at least as severe as it was for the 1st illegal filming. I'm predicting the Patriots fail to reach the AFC championship game this year and their 1st round pick next year will be around the 27th pick.

 
Hoodoo said:
That's not genius, it's called winning. If you, as a player, have a choice between New England who has a perennial shot at getting you to the Superbowl every single year or the Cleveland Browns making a few extra hundred thousand (theoretical dollars), then which are you going to chose? It's no different in any team sports setting, the teams that are consistently better have a much easier time recruiting players.
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I'll add this. Guys that go there take less because they feel they have the best chance to win a SB and the Pats know that that type of player will bust their ### to win. Guys that don't, are looking for the big payday and really could care less about winning. They care about the $. 

But that's all coming to an end and soon the Pats will be just like every other team. 2018 was their last SB. It won't continue without Brady. He's done.

 
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brun said:
I thought about this some more and IMO, this is the fault of someone in the production company. Probably it lies with whoever is responsible for getting permits, credentials etc., as it would make sense to me that those duties would include finding out what the local rules/laws are and passing those onto the film crew.
The scout gets no blame from me as he is there to perform his scouting duties, not supervise the film crew. So, he wouldn't be privy to what permissions the film crew received.
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I don't buy it.  After watching the video it seems clear to me the guy filming it knew that what he was doing was not allowed.

 
America's #1 Patriots hater thinks banning the Pats from the play-offs is proper punishment for their latest cheat bust: article

Excerpt:

How about this: Kick them out of the 2019 NFL playoffs.

Oh, I know. That looks ridiculous. I can hear talk-show idiots in Boston now, sending readers my way on Twitter and blasting me on the air, calling me obsessed with their team, missing the irony of their own obsession with me. But whatever. Idiots are going to idiot. Be Boston, Boston.

Here, I’ll be real: Roger Goodell needs to hit the Patriots so hard, they never cheat again. I mean, this is getting ridiculous. All those fines haven’t done a thing to an NFL franchise printing money. All those docked draft picks haven’t deterred a team whose coach and quarterback are so good, they can plug-and-play anybody, anywhere, and keep rolling.

No, at a minimum, it’s time to take games from the Patriots. At a maximum, it’s time to take the 2019 playoffs from them. What’s the alternative? Forcing Goodell to give Kraft the Vince Lombardi Trophy when they most likely win another Super Bowl in a few months?

Please. Enough’s enough. It would be justice for Goodell to send the Patriots to bed without their playoff supper, and see if they’re still so naughty going forward. He won’t do it, and I realize that, so he might as well do this:

 
Quick thought:

I don't know why I doubted you when you said your sole motivation was to see that corruption was investigated....it's not like you could have alterior motives.

See what I did there?

Carry on.

 
JohnnyU said:
That's not much of a punishment IMO.
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And you are entitled to your opinion.  I think it would be severe as many contracts they already have presume the cap is going up.  If it does not they are in a bind.  It also prevents or severely hampers acquisition of any free agents in the off season and during the year.  Also, if they were caught two years in a row this would be massive.  Still, its just a thought.  Some like draft choices and fines, some like asterisks. (I'm not a punish through punctuation guy myself) 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
And you are entitled to your opinion.  I think it would be severe as many contracts they already have presume the cap is going up.  If it does not they are in a bind.  It also prevents or severely hampers acquisition of any free agents in the off season and during the year.  Also, if they were caught two years in a row this would be massive.  Still, its just a thought.  Some like draft choices and fines, some like asterisks. (I'm not a punish through punctuation guy myself) 
Click to expand...
If they are guilty Goddell isn't limited to just picks and a fine.

 
There is no evidence linking this to Belichick or fact witnesses saying Belichick gave the order to tape the Bengals sideline. 

 
JohnnyU said:
If they are guilty Goddell isn't limited to just picks and a fine.
Click to expand...
Indeed.  I was simply offering a penalty paradigm I had never previously heard discussed, and one which would annoy the hell out of any GM.  It would also get the attention of all Agents who would see less of a pie for their clients and so themselves and might, therefore, lead them to directing their clients elsewhere.  As no one has ;picked up the idea I can only assume others find as little merit in the idea as do you.  Not the first 0time one of my ideas gained no traction.

 
ajm27501 said:
I would assume that the NFLPA would have a problem with shrinking the pool of compensation to their membership.
Click to expand...
An excellent point, and one I had not previously considered.  I guess as they are locked down the cap amount could be reassigned equally to other teams for that year or could be given to those teams directly victimized.  alternatively the money could be paid into a health care fund for retired players.  Regardless, good point.  Obviously I had not thought this through but was merely spit-balling.  Very much so in fact to draw comments and thoughts exactly like yours.

 
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/22/nfl-investigators-probe-for-connection-to-patriots-football-operations-in-spygate-2/

League investigators also collected devices from certain individuals, for the purposes of attempting to establish a connection to the team’s football operations. As one source explained it, there’s a sense that investigators want to make that connection, and a perception that they are showing frustration when unable to tie the video crew to the football employees.

Yep, sounds like an unbiased investigation, alright. 

 
Workhorse said:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/22/nfl-investigators-probe-for-connection-to-patriots-football-operations-in-spygate-2/

League investigators also collected devices from certain individuals, for the purposes of attempting to establish a connection to the team’s football operations. As one source explained it, there’s a sense that investigators want to make that connection, and a perception that they are showing frustration when unable to tie the video crew to the football employees.

Yep, sounds like an unbiased investigation, alright. 
Click to expand...
Wasn't ProFootballTalk sort of jumping the shark last time reporting subtly and with shades of editorial leakage into their "news" sections on Deflategate in that they were pro-Patriot stance, much like the NYT or Globe and politics? Yeah, they were. 

 
rockaction said:
Wasn't ProFootballTalk sort of jumping the shark last time reporting subtly and with shades of editorial leakage into their "news" sections on Deflategate in that they were pro-Patriot stance, much like the NYT or Globe and politics? Yeah, they were. 
Click to expand...
And they were correct. Deflategate was the dumbest "scandal" of all time. Any 8th grade science experiment would tell you the same.

 
Workhorse said:
And they were correct. Deflategate was the dumbest "scandal" of all time. Any 8th grade science experiment would tell you the same.
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Really, Deflategate was a procedural rule break bordering on a nothing burger that resulted in guys losing their jobs and living in Hawaii or something. 

 
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rockaction said:
Really, Deflategate was a procedural rule break bordering on a nothing burger that resulted in guys losing their jobs and living in Hawaii or something. 
Click to expand...
If you really want to relitigate that garbage, start by explaining why the Steelers never got punished for deflated footballs the following season.

 
Workhorse said:
If you really want to relitigate that garbage, start by explaining why the Steelers never got punished for deflated footballs the following season.
Click to expand...
I was being cheeky. I think I didn't do it so well...or at least it wasn't obvious enough that passion might have missed it. 

 
Workhorse said:
And they were correct. Deflategate was the dumbest "scandal" of all time. Any 8th grade science experiment would tell you the same.
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It's been acknowledged by league ownership that it was a kangaroo court to placate some owners who felt the Patriots had gotten off light for spygate.

Its also been acknowledged that Aaron Rodgers prefers his balls overinflated relative to max pressure "rule".

Carry on.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
It's been acknowledged by league ownership that it was a kangaroo court to placate some owners who felt the Patriots had gotten off light for spygate.

Its also been acknowledged that Aaron Rodgers prefers his balls overinflated relative to max pressure "rule".

Carry on.
Click to expand...
And had Rodgers or the Packers taken steps to inflate the balls after they were certified by the Officials it would be a scandal instead of a preference forthrightly expressed.  The matter was not about the level of the balls, but how they got that way.    This has always been the most desperate and dumbest defense of the Patriots.  Having a preference is totally allowed.  Prepping the balls any way the Q.B. prefers is totally allowed.  Submitting the balls to the Officials for certification is required.  Interfering with ball pressure after that certification is prohibited.

 
They sure are trying to sweep this one under the rug.

So because they cannot find a connection to BB, nothing bad was happening?  Is it possible that the Patriots were good in covering their tracks?  Based on the past, there is no way I give them the benefit of the doubt.

 
Chaz McNulty said:
They sure are trying to sweep this one under the rug.

So because they cannot find a connection to BB, nothing bad was happening?  Is it possible that the Patriots were good in covering their tracks?  Based on the past, there is no way I give them the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...
Lets just presume guilt; its more expeditious after all.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
After you've been caught cheating multiple times -- including the exact same kind of cheating that appears to have taken place here -- you lose the benefit of the doubt.
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Roger told all the teams to stop filming on the sideline, Bill said whatever, and paid a fine for his belief that the new rule wouldn't be enforced.

Deflategate was a joke; owners admitted it was "payback" for thinking Pats got off easy.

Spygate 2.0 is even more of a joke.  Zero connection between the media arm and football operations.

But none of this matters to the asterisk community.  Carry on.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
Roger told all the teams to stop filming on the sideline, Bill said whatever, and paid a fine for his belief that the new rule wouldn't be enforced.

Deflategate was a joke; owners admitted it was "payback" for thinking Pats got off easy.

Spygate 2.0 is even more of a joke.  Zero connection between the media arm and football operations.

But none of this matters to the asterisk community.  Carry on.
Click to expand...
Spygate was absolutely legit cheating.   

Defalategate and Spygrate 2.0 may or may not be jokes, I am not sure.  What is odd is the Patriots are the team being charged in all three.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
Roger told all the teams to stop filming on the sideline, Bill said whatever, and paid a fine for his belief that the new rule wouldn't be enforced.

Deflategate was a joke; owners admitted it was "payback" for thinking Pats got off easy.

Spygate 2.0 is even more of a joke.  Zero connection between the media arm and football operations.

But none of this matters to the asterisk community.  Carry on.
Click to expand...
I don't think you realize the advantage for 5 or 6 years that the Pats gained from Spygate 1.  The fact that the NFL had to destroy the large treasure trove of evidence (post handing out the fine and penalty), to legitimize a superbowl champ only added fuel to the fact that they got off so easy the first time around.  Deflategate was definitely payback.

I believe that the NFL wants Spygate 2.0 to be considered a joke, and it may be, but there's also a good chance that they were cheating again.

It's unfortunate that excons can't catch a break!

 
Chaz McNulty said:
I don't think you realize the advantage for 5 or 6 years that the Pats gained from Spygate 1.  The fact that the NFL had to destroy the large treasure trove of evidence (post handing out the fine and penalty), to legitimize a superbowl champ only added fuel to the fact that they got off so easy the first time around.  Deflategate was definitely payback.

I believe that the NFL wants Spygate 2.0 to be considered a joke, and it may be, but there's also a good chance that they were cheating again.

It's unfortunate that excons can't catch a break!
Click to expand...
Lost in the destroying of the tape is similar to what happened with Spygate 2.0. When stuff got released this time, people screamed bloody murder . . . not knowing what was actually gained by seeing guys on the sideline. It has been said that NE had access to the same stuff they taped through other (better) sources . . . yet to the general public it looked like they could have gotten some big advantage. Like pretty much every other team, CIN uses headsets and receivers in helmets to convey information. So sure, there was 8 minutes of footage of players standing on the sideline. 

In Spygate 1.0, if footage had gotten out, there would have been just as much outrage. It had been reported back in the day that some of the footage NE had showed camera people from other teams also on the field doing the same thing NE was. If fans of other teams are mad about the first Spygate, they should be mad that NE better utilized what they taped than their own team did. The main concern over Spygate was that the league did not want teams taping from the playing field. 

The Pats then later matched up what they could to better scheme and plan. Did they get an advantage? Sure . . . but they could have had access to the same information and signals like anyone else. Like BB said. All this stuff was done in front of 80,000 people.

Other teams taped stuff BEFORE and other teams have taped things AFTER Spygate. The Jets got caught doing so TWICE against just NE after Spygate. But no one cared, nothing happened, and it got buried in the remote sections of papers and websites. It got swept under the rug and the Jets weren't penalized. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
Lost in the destroying of the tape is similar to what happened with Spygate 2.0. When stuff got released this time, people screamed bloody murder . . . not knowing what was actually gained by seeing guys on the sideline. It has been said that NE had access to the same stuff they taped through other (better) sources . . . yet to the general public it looked like they could have gotten some big advantage. Like pretty much every other team, CIN uses headsets and receivers in helmets to convey information. So sure, there was 8 minutes of footage of players standing on the sideline. 

In Spygate 1.0, if footage had gotten out, there would have been just as much outrage. It had been reported back in the day that some of the footage NE had showed camera people from other teams also on the field doing the same thing NE was. If fans of other teams are mad about the first Spygate, they should be mad that NE better utilized what they taped than their own team did. The main concern over Spygate was that the league did not want teams taping from the playing field. 

The Pats then later matched up what they could to better scheme and plan. Did they get an advantage? Sure . . . but they could have had access to the same information and signals like anyone else. Like BB said. All this stuff was done in front of 80,000 people.

Other teams taped stuff BEFORE and other teams have taped things AFTER Spygate. The Jets got caught doing so TWICE against just NE after Spygate. But no one cared, nothing happened, and it got buried in the remote sections of papers and websites. It got swept under the rug and the Jets weren't penalized. 
Click to expand...
Is this what you are referring to with the Jets taping?  https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

Really?  They asked for permission(received it) and then got told to stop.  It's almost like the Patriots were trying to muddy the water with this.

 
Chaz McNulty said:
I don't think you realize the advantage for 5 or 6 years that the Pats gained from Spygate 1.  The fact that the NFL had to destroy the large treasure trove of evidence (post handing out the fine and penalty), to legitimize a superbowl champ only added fuel to the fact that they got off so easy the first time around.  Deflategate was definitely payback.

I believe that the NFL wants Spygate 2.0 to be considered a joke, and it may be, but there's also a good chance that they were cheating again.

It's unfortunate that excons can't catch a break!
Click to expand...
But you realize the advantage?  For the record, even Mangini didn't think they got much benefit. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/mangini-admits-he-regrets-starting-spygate-opens-up-on-relationship-with-belichick/

 
I hope it's quick and swift.  Get it over already whatever it is.  The Pats are on the downswing and I have enough time in my future to rejoice of their demise. 

 
DropKick said:
But you realize the advantage?  For the record, even Mangini didn't think they got much benefit. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/mangini-admits-he-regrets-starting-spygate-opens-up-on-relationship-with-belichick/
Click to expand...
Hmmm.  They did this for 6 years before being caught.  Do you think if the benefit was minimal they would have wasted resources on this.  They were garnering an advantage by studying opponents signals. 

I believe coaching in the NFL plays a larger role than with coaching in any of the major sports.  An inferior team can easily beat a better team if they call the right plays at the right time.  Usually its an intelligent guess as to what to call.  The Patriots were taking the guesswork out of it.

 
DropKick said:
But you realize the advantage?  For the record, even Mangini didn't think they got much benefit. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/mangini-admits-he-regrets-starting-spygate-opens-up-on-relationship-with-belichick/
Click to expand...
I wouldn't put too much stock into anything he says anymore*.  I've seen him on the Whitlock show on FS1 and he is basically a Patriots apologist now.  I guess he figures defending them to the death and constantly referring to them as "Tom" and "Bill" will eventually make them forgive him (which maybe they have, who knows?). 

*This is to be taken at face value, and not meant to convey my opinion on the original Spygate or this latest min-scandal (which I don't think I have commented on in this thread yet). 

 
Chaz McNulty said:
Hmmm.  They did this for 6 years before being caught.  Do you think if the benefit was minimal they would have wasted resources on this.  They were garnering an advantage by studying opponents signals. 

I believe coaching in the NFL plays a larger role than with coaching in any of the major sports.  An inferior team can easily beat a better team if they call the right plays at the right time.  Usually its an intelligent guess as to what to call.  The Patriots were taking the guesswork out of it.
Click to expand...
And how do you know half the league didn't do something similar?

ETA:  An excerpt from the Spygate Wiki page... Not to pardon Belichick but there are too many "holier than thou" attitudes.

After footage from the actual tape was aired on Fox NFL Sunday on September 16, former Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson claimed, "This is exactly how I was told to do it 18 years ago by a Kansas City Chiefs scout. I tried it, but I didn't think it helped us." Johnson also said, "Bill Belichick was wrong because he videotaped signals after a memo was sent out to all of the teams saying not to do it. But what irritates me is hearing some reactions from players and coaches. These players don't know what their coaches are doing. And some of the coaches have selective amnesia because I know for a fact there were various teams doing this. That's why the memo was sent to everybody. That doesn't make [Belichick] right, but a lot of teams are doing this."

 
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Chaz McNulty said:
Hmmm.  They did this for 6 years before being caught.  Do you think if the benefit was minimal they would have wasted resources on this.  They were garnering an advantage by studying opponents signals. 

I believe coaching in the NFL plays a larger role than with coaching in any of the major sports.  An inferior team can easily beat a better team if they call the right plays at the right time.  Usually its an intelligent guess as to what to call.  The Patriots were taking the guesswork out of it.
Click to expand...
FWIW - The memo directing teams not to record from that location came out in 2006.

 
Chaz McNulty said:
Hmmm.  They did this for 6 years before being caught.  Do you think if the benefit was minimal they would have wasted resources on this.  They were garnering an advantage by studying opponents signals. 

I believe coaching in the NFL plays a larger role than with coaching in any of the major sports.  An inferior team can easily beat a better team if they call the right plays at the right time.  Usually its an intelligent guess as to what to call.  The Patriots were taking the guesswork out of it.
Click to expand...
Your position is classical historical revisionism.

Prior to Goodell issuing the memorandum which explicitely prohibited sideline filming, it was common knowledge that this was a means of gathering competitive intelligence that was practiced by multiple teams.  One of the points made during this period was, I believe by Bill Parcells, that such information gathering is why a majority of teams changed their play calling signals on a regular basis and it was therefore shocking that certain stubborn teams would not change their signals, thus creating a potential competitive advantage that the Patriots and other teams would gleefully exploit (hence the commissioner's memorandum, which was sent to 32 teams not to 1 team).  

Why do you think there was famous footage of Herm Edwards looking directly into the Patriots camera?  The answer is because it was common knowledge that this was happening.

Steve Marriuci tells the story of Lions staff picking through the garbage of visiting coaching staff looking for playbook and playcalling information.

It is ridiculous on its face to single out the Patriots as one evil entity contrasted by 31 other teams with pristine records of never attempting to obtain competitive advantage.

Belichick's real error here in incorrectly reading the tea leaves and failing to anticipate that the league had made up its mind that enforcement of the new guidance would be swift and harsh.  

There are basically two reasons why Belichick has been vilified, those being unprecedented success and presenting a non-sympathetic character.  People don't like the man because he sent a married woman shoe boxes full of cash and he quit the Jets job when it became apparent that he was being installed as a puppet.  Unfortunately, some people are just fundamentally dishonest, and rather than saying "you know what, I just don't like the guy" they say "he's a cheater and the only reason they've ever done anything is because of cheating and they get an asterisk and blah blah blah".  It's horse hockey.

Cue the response of "we'll never know because the league destroyed the tapes".  Whatever dude.  We know what we know, Belichick got made an example of, and the tempest in a teapot becomes the foundation for fragile rhetoric from whiners who don't like the man.  So much so that thinly veiled counter-attacks from jealous owners ("deflategate", "spygate 2.0") become added to the "foundation" of the "cheater" label.  It's pitiful.  To be the man, you have to beat the man.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
Your position is classical historical revisionism.

Prior to Goodell issuing the memorandum which explicitely prohibited sideline filming, it was common knowledge that this was a means of gathering competitive intelligence that was practiced by multiple teams.  One of the points made during this period was, I believe by Bill Parcells, that such information gathering is why a majority of teams changed their play calling signals on a regular basis and it was therefore shocking that certain stubborn teams would not change their signals, thus creating a potential competitive advantage that the Patriots and other teams would gleefully exploit (hence the commissioner's memorandum, which was sent to 32 teams not to 1 team).  

Why do you think there was famous footage of Herm Edwards looking directly into the Patriots camera?  The answer is because it was common knowledge that this was happening.

Steve Marriuci tells the story of Lions staff picking through the garbage of visiting coaching staff looking for playbook and playcalling information.

It is ridiculous on its face to single out the Patriots as one evil entity contrasted by 31 other teams with pristine records of never attempting to obtain competitive advantage.

Belichick's real error here in incorrectly reading the tea leaves and failing to anticipate that the league had made up its mind that enforcement of the new guidance would be swift and harsh.  

There are basically two reasons why Belichick has been vilified, those being unprecedented success and presenting a non-sympathetic character.  People don't like the man because he sent a married woman shoe boxes full of cash and he quit the Jets job when it became apparent that he was being installed as a puppet.  Unfortunately, some people are just fundamentally dishonest, and rather than saying "you know what, I just don't like the guy" they say "he's a cheater and the only reason they've ever done anything is because of cheating and they get an asterisk and blah blah blah".  It's horse hockey.

Cue the response of "we'll never know because the league destroyed the tapes".  Whatever dude.  We know what we know, Belichick got made an example of, and the tempest in a teapot becomes the foundation for fragile rhetoric from whiners who don't like the man.  So much so that thinly veiled counter-attacks from jealous owners ("deflategate", "spygate 2.0") become added to the "foundation" of the "cheater" label.  It's pitiful.  To be the man, you have to beat the man.
Click to expand...
You've been playing the everybody does it card for years.  Either the Patriots are very bad at it because they get caught, or they are the one's doing it.

 
SeniorVBDStudent said:
Your position is classical historical revisionism.

Prior to Goodell issuing the memorandum which explicitely prohibited sideline filming, it was common knowledge that this was a means of gathering competitive intelligence that was practiced by multiple teams.  One of the points made during this period was, I believe by Bill Parcells, that such information gathering is why a majority of teams changed their play calling signals on a regular basis and it was therefore shocking that certain stubborn teams would not change their signals, thus creating a potential competitive advantage that the Patriots and other teams would gleefully exploit (hence the commissioner's memorandum, which was sent to 32 teams not to 1 team).  

Why do you think there was famous footage of Herm Edwards looking directly into the Patriots camera?  The answer is because it was common knowledge that this was happening.

Steve Marriuci tells the story of Lions staff picking through the garbage of visiting coaching staff looking for playbook and playcalling information.

It is ridiculous on its face to single out the Patriots as one evil entity contrasted by 31 other teams with pristine records of never attempting to obtain competitive advantage.

Belichick's real error here in incorrectly reading the tea leaves and failing to anticipate that the league had made up its mind that enforcement of the new guidance would be swift and harsh.  

There are basically two reasons why Belichick has been vilified, those being unprecedented success and presenting a non-sympathetic character.  People don't like the man because he sent a married woman shoe boxes full of cash and he quit the Jets job when it became apparent that he was being installed as a puppet.  Unfortunately, some people are just fundamentally dishonest, and rather than saying "you know what, I just don't like the guy" they say "he's a cheater and the only reason they've ever done anything is because of cheating and they get an asterisk and blah blah blah".  It's horse hockey.

Cue the response of "we'll never know because the league destroyed the tapes".  Whatever dude.  We know what we know, Belichick got made an example of, and the tempest in a teapot becomes the foundation for fragile rhetoric from whiners who don't like the man.  So much so that thinly veiled counter-attacks from jealous owners ("deflategate", "spygate 2.0") become added to the "foundation" of the "cheater" label.  It's pitiful.  To be the man, you have to beat the man.
Click to expand...
I respect him as a genius coach and GM, but don't like him because of him cheating.  

As to the bolded I had no idea about the shoe boxes sent to a married woman nor his dating life. That didn't take part in my decision at all.

Also, I couldn't care less that he quit the Jets job, my decision to not like him stems only from multiple cheating allegations.  

 
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