Microsoft Announces "Surface" Tablet (1 Viewer)

[DrJ]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

The cloud isn't necessarily about the data living out on the internet, you can bring cloud technology to your data center in the form of a private cloud. It's more about delivering this stuff to the end user as an on demand service than about whether the data lives with you vs the internet. In terms of thin clients, the model is inherently more secure than the distributed model because of the fact that the data never has to be housed on the devices. You can control whether users can use USB devices at all and have potential to take or expose data via that mechanism. Mobile devices themselves come with a lot of security concerns because they're easy to lose and people love to steal them. Laptops come with similar concerns, but these are even worse. The iPad itself is a relative joke from a security perspective. It seems like every other productivity app put an insecure web server into their app because there's no filesystem and users are clamoring for an easy way to get their stuff back and forth. Then there's the fact that there's a million devices out there and counting, the users all have their opinion on which is best, and eventually you're going to get pressure from these users to adopt certain devices and you have a security nightmare. This model allows you to keep all of your data inside of your data center and under your control.

Another really cool one that VMware has in beta at this point is Project Octopus, a cloud based filesystem. It's essentially like a Dropbox / Sharepoint hybrid for your Enterprise. Should be very cool. IMO solutions that will work across all of these platforms and give you a degree of central control are superior and more forward thinking than ones that are locked to a specific device.

With today's hacker, it's actually the opposite. You're hearing less and less about actual machines being compromised and more about sniffing the communications on the networks to intercept data. The more you communicate your data back and forth, the more chance you give someone of intercepting something. Cloud plays right into that methodology. It should be noted that these environments CAN be sufficiently secured, but it comes at a privacy cost for the end user that most of them either aren't aware of or don't care about or both.

If you're using sufficient encryption for these communications that shouldn't be a problem. In the case of View, the server to PC network transmissions stay entirely in your data center. Which is a plus for the control and possibility of interception of this data. It's simply the PC display that's transferred over the network, via an encrypted connection if you elect to go that route.

 

[The Commish]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

The cloud isn't necessarily about the data living out on the internet, you can bring cloud technology to your data center in the form of a private cloud. It's more about delivering this stuff to the end user as an on demand service than about whether the data lives with you vs the internet. In terms of thin clients, the model is inherently more secure than the distributed model because of the fact that the data never has to be housed on the devices. You can control whether users can use USB devices at all and have potential to take or expose data via that mechanism. Mobile devices themselves come with a lot of security concerns because they're easy to lose and people love to steal them. Laptops come with similar concerns, but these are even worse. The iPad itself is a relative joke from a security perspective. It seems like every other productivity app put an insecure web server into their app because there's no filesystem and users are clamoring for an easy way to get their stuff back and forth. Then there's the fact that there's a million devices out there and counting, the users all have their opinion on which is best, and eventually you're going to get pressure from these users to adopt certain devices and you have a security nightmare. This model allows you to keep all of your data inside of your data center and under your control.

Another really cool one that VMware has in beta at this point is Project Octopus, a cloud based filesystem. It's essentially like a Dropbox / Sharepoint hybrid for your Enterprise. Should be very cool. IMO solutions that will work across all of these platforms and give you a degree of central control are superior and more forward thinking than ones that are locked to a specific device.

With today's hacker, it's actually the opposite. You're hearing less and less about actual machines being compromised and more about sniffing the communications on the networks to intercept data. The more you communicate your data back and forth, the more chance you give someone of intercepting something. Cloud plays right into that methodology. It should be noted that these environments CAN be sufficiently secured, but it comes at a privacy cost for the end user that most of them either aren't aware of or don't care about or both.

If you're using sufficient encryption for these communications that shouldn't be a problem. In the case of View, the server to PC network transmissions stay entirely in your data center. Which is a plus for the control and possibility of interception of this data. It's simply the PC display that's transferred over the network, via an encrypted connection if you elect to go that route.

I don't disagree IF you are using sufficient encryption. Tell me what "out of the box" device has sufficient encryption methodologies built in? There are very popular devices out there that don't (or didn't) support even the most basic concept of certs. Encryption is a solution that works only if the transmitter and receiver are secure.ETA: It should be noted, I don't question the cloud concept for an enterprise. All the pieces in that scenario are under one group's control. I'm talking about the general, more popular cloud concepts like Apple's and Google's where the company can only do so much because they have no say in what the customer does with their own piece of hardware.

 

[DrJ]

I don't think you do get it - your data can still be on hard drives you own, maintain, and secure. Not Google or Apple or anyone else.

So how do I store my stuff in the Apple or Google cloud and I maintain and secure it? Not sure what your thinking but once it is up there you have no say in how it is secured or even the ability to know if you have truly deleted it. Have you read Googles term of service?

When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content.

I have not read drop boxes but last time I looked it was similar and they played it off as a misunderstanding.

You can host cloud based services out of your own data center - the concept is really about delivering this stuff as a service and not necessarily about simply hosting it on the internet. Infrastructure, Desktop, Software, Platform, etc as a service. The public cloud only makes up one component, most organizations will be running a hybrid public/private cloud that complement each other. VMware and Microsoft are well on the move here and have vCloud Director on VMware's side and private cloud options in Microsoft's new SCVMM 2012 product.Realistically the public cloud is going to gain a larger market share as time goes on though. IT is getting more and more complex, and most organizations (especially in the SMB arena) aren't going to be able to provide suitable services on their own. This includes the complex area of information security. They'll find it far better for them to leave this to professionals that specialize and can rent them solutions their budget can't even dream of purchasing. At the enterprise level they'll likely end up more on the private side of things, but they're still going to leverage the public cloud for things like sizing system needs before purchasing equipment on their own and other various uses.

 

[DrJ]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

The cloud isn't necessarily about the data living out on the internet, you can bring cloud technology to your data center in the form of a private cloud. It's more about delivering this stuff to the end user as an on demand service than about whether the data lives with you vs the internet. In terms of thin clients, the model is inherently more secure than the distributed model because of the fact that the data never has to be housed on the devices. You can control whether users can use USB devices at all and have potential to take or expose data via that mechanism. Mobile devices themselves come with a lot of security concerns because they're easy to lose and people love to steal them. Laptops come with similar concerns, but these are even worse. The iPad itself is a relative joke from a security perspective. It seems like every other productivity app put an insecure web server into their app because there's no filesystem and users are clamoring for an easy way to get their stuff back and forth. Then there's the fact that there's a million devices out there and counting, the users all have their opinion on which is best, and eventually you're going to get pressure from these users to adopt certain devices and you have a security nightmare. This model allows you to keep all of your data inside of your data center and under your control.

Another really cool one that VMware has in beta at this point is Project Octopus, a cloud based filesystem. It's essentially like a Dropbox / Sharepoint hybrid for your Enterprise. Should be very cool. IMO solutions that will work across all of these platforms and give you a degree of central control are superior and more forward thinking than ones that are locked to a specific device.

With today's hacker, it's actually the opposite. You're hearing less and less about actual machines being compromised and more about sniffing the communications on the networks to intercept data. The more you communicate your data back and forth, the more chance you give someone of intercepting something. Cloud plays right into that methodology. It should be noted that these environments CAN be sufficiently secured, but it comes at a privacy cost for the end user that most of them either aren't aware of or don't care about or both.

If you're using sufficient encryption for these communications that shouldn't be a problem. In the case of View, the server to PC network transmissions stay entirely in your data center. Which is a plus for the control and possibility of interception of this data. It's simply the PC display that's transferred over the network, via an encrypted connection if you elect to go that route.

I don't disagree IF you are using sufficient encryption. Tell me what "out of the box" device has sufficient encryption methodologies built in? There are very popular devices out there that don't (or didn't) support even the most basic concept of certs. Encryption is a solution that works only if the transmitter and receiver are secure.ETA: It should be noted, I don't question the cloud concept for an enterprise. All the pieces in that scenario are under one group's control. I'm talking about the general, more popular cloud concepts like Apple's and Google's where the company can only do so much because they have no say in what the customer does with their own piece of hardware.

The client you're using to access has the encryption built in. In the case of View you pipe the connection over SSL.And yeah, this stuff is just enterprise right now. But from what I hear companies like VMware still see a ton of opportunity in the consumer market and this will eventually be a player there too.

 

[DrJ]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

 

[goonsquad]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

Honestly, it's also about what you're protecting. Russian hackers aren't chomping at the bit to break into goonsquad's photo stream to intercept photos from my family barbecue at the lake or to get access to my wife's 2nd grade class lesson plans. I trust that Apple, Amazon or Google (OK, not Google) have security in place that is appropriate for what I'm putting into their cloud. I'm not dealing in millions of credit card numbers or state secrets here.

 

[NCCommish]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

I don't sell to consumers. I sell to businesses and they damn well care.

 

[Slapdash]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

Yeah we are. Not sure why everyone is so ready to give third parties and even government agencies so much access to their information for a little convenience.

 

[Slapdash]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

Honestly, it's also about what you're protecting. Russian hackers aren't chomping at the bit to break into goonsquad's photo stream to intercept photos from my family barbecue at the lake or to get access to my wife's 2nd grade class lesson plans. I trust that Apple, Amazon or Google (OK, not Google) have security in place that is appropriate for what I'm putting into their cloud. I'm not dealing in millions of credit card numbers or state secrets here.

Russian hackers aren't the type of groups I worry about getting my data.

 

[cstu]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

What I meant about the Surface keyboard not being 'real' is that it needs support underneath it and doesn't have any feedback. That doesn't mean it can't be useful but it does have some drawbacks. However, for the market MS is going for it will be enough. The Surface fills in the gap between an iPad and ultrabooks/tablet hybrids like the Prime. It really should be priced the same as the iPad with a Smart Cover (~$540) to be successful.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

My link

 

[zDragon]

I don't think you do get it - your data can still be on hard drives you own, maintain, and secure. Not Google or Apple or anyone else.

So how do I store my stuff in the Apple or Google cloud and I maintain and secure it? Not sure what your thinking but once it is up there you have no say in how it is secured or even the ability to know if you have truly deleted it. Have you read Googles term of service?

When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content.

I have not read drop boxes but last time I looked it was similar and they played it off as a misunderstanding.

You can host cloud based services out of your own data center - the concept is really about delivering this stuff as a service and not necessarily about simply hosting it on the internet. Infrastructure, Desktop, Software, Platform, etc as a service. The public cloud only makes up one component, most organizations will be running a hybrid public/private cloud that complement each other. VMware and Microsoft are well on the move here and have vCloud Director on VMware's side and private cloud options in Microsoft's new SCVMM 2012 product.Realistically the public cloud is going to gain a larger market share as time goes on though. IT is getting more and more complex, and most organizations (especially in the SMB arena) aren't going to be able to provide suitable services on their own. This includes the complex area of information security. They'll find it far better for them to leave this to professionals that specialize and can rent them solutions their budget can't even dream of purchasing. At the enterprise level they'll likely end up more on the private side of things, but they're still going to leverage the public cloud for things like sizing system needs before purchasing equipment on their own and other various uses.

I have not seen an implementation of SCVMM that used thin clients as you described. The implementation I have seen make it a lot easier to manage client end devices such as phones, tablets and laptops but even when a "Cloud" is setup it is still accessed by laptop, tablets and phones. Every implementation of these type devices I have seen users keep and retrieve e-mails, documents, etc local to the device. Therefore you run the same security risks even if you make them use a session to a virtual desktop do any work. Then again that is rarely the case in my experience.I have seen true thin-client setups that work well especially in lab type environments such as colleges. The last thin-client I saw was by nComputing. These are simply small boxes that give you monitor, ethernet, keyboard, and mice connections. All software is run off a shared server. I'm not even sure what your trying to say here "but they're still going to leverage the public cloud for things like sizing system needs". Why would anyone leverage the "Cloud" for things like sizing system needs? I'm not sure how other enterprises do sizing but we use very specific metrics based on the technology we are implementing. For example we just setup an iSilon system for a transaction system we put into service. In order to size the iSilon for our application we captured very specific metrics such as disk writes/reads per second,transfer rates, data growth observed during load testing in our IST environment, etc. The majority of our metrics were straight from the sizing guide that they provide. A few others we added.

 

[The Commish]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

I don't disagree with a single word of this and that's what's scary. They just don't give a ####. I don't trust any of them with any of my stuff. Partly because I know at a high level how each works and partly because I know specifics of some of the larger ones. Not a chance in hell anything of mine gets out there. I know folks who think it's fine to use these clouds as their back up area. That's how it's sold to them, so you'll find their tax returns, bank statements, all kinds of personal crap out there.All I've said is I can't believe people are this trusting of such a vulnerable technology. That's it. I acknowledge it can be perfectly safe if the time is taken to do things correctly. From what I've seen, that time and expense have not been taken in most cases. That's all.

 

[zDragon]

My link

 

[Tiger Fan]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

I don't disagree with a single word of this and that's what's scary. They just don't give a ####. I don't trust any of them with any of my stuff. Partly because I know at a high level how each works and partly because I know specifics of some of the larger ones. Not a chance in hell anything of mine gets out there. I know folks who think it's fine to use these clouds as their back up area. That's how it's sold to them, so you'll find their tax returns, bank statements, all kinds of personal crap out there.All I've said is I can't believe people are this trusting of such a vulnerable technology. That's it. I acknowledge it can be perfectly safe if the time is taken to do things correctly. From what I've seen, that time and expense have not been taken in most cases. That's all.

How do you back up important docs?

 

[Otis]

Can someone please explain to me why netbooks didn't catch on better? I still think it would be the best solution for me.

Macbook air is basically a netbook, and it has caught on. I love the size. I used to use things a bit smaller (like Asus eee) but I think that fad didn't last long because the form factor was just a little too small.

 

[DrJ]

I don't think you do get it - your data can still be on hard drives you own, maintain, and secure. Not Google or Apple or anyone else.

So how do I store my stuff in the Apple or Google cloud and I maintain and secure it? Not sure what your thinking but once it is up there you have no say in how it is secured or even the ability to know if you have truly deleted it. Have you read Googles term of service?

When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content.

I have not read drop boxes but last time I looked it was similar and they played it off as a misunderstanding.

You can host cloud based services out of your own data center - the concept is really about delivering this stuff as a service and not necessarily about simply hosting it on the internet. Infrastructure, Desktop, Software, Platform, etc as a service. The public cloud only makes up one component, most organizations will be running a hybrid public/private cloud that complement each other. VMware and Microsoft are well on the move here and have vCloud Director on VMware's side and private cloud options in Microsoft's new SCVMM 2012 product.Realistically the public cloud is going to gain a larger market share as time goes on though. IT is getting more and more complex, and most organizations (especially in the SMB arena) aren't going to be able to provide suitable services on their own. This includes the complex area of information security. They'll find it far better for them to leave this to professionals that specialize and can rent them solutions their budget can't even dream of purchasing. At the enterprise level they'll likely end up more on the private side of things, but they're still going to leverage the public cloud for things like sizing system needs before purchasing equipment on their own and other various uses.

I have not seen an implementation of SCVMM that used thin clients as you described. The implementation I have seen make it a lot easier to manage client end devices such as phones, tablets and laptops but even when a "Cloud" is setup it is still accessed by laptop, tablets and phones. Every implementation of these type devices I have seen users keep and retrieve e-mails, documents, etc local to the device. Therefore you run the same security risks even if you make them use a session to a virtual desktop do any work. Then again that is rarely the case in my experience.I have seen true thin-client setups that work well especially in lab type environments such as colleges. The last thin-client I saw was by nComputing. These are simply small boxes that give you monitor, ethernet, keyboard, and mice connections. All software is run off a shared server. I'm not even sure what your trying to say here "but they're still going to leverage the public cloud for things like sizing system needs". Why would anyone leverage the "Cloud" for things like sizing system needs? I'm not sure how other enterprises do sizing but we use very specific metrics based on the technology we are implementing. For example we just setup an iSilon system for a transaction system we put into service. In order to size the iSilon for our application we captured very specific metrics such as disk writes/reads per second,transfer rates, data growth observed during load testing in our IST environment, etc. The majority of our metrics were straight from the sizing guide that they provide. A few others we added.

Because SCVMM is about delivering Infrastructure as a Service. For Thin clients and Desktop as a Service you're looking at RDS on the Microsoft end. Xen Desktop on the Citrix end, and VMware View on the VMware side.On the sizing system needs - one difficulty in getting buy in and getting projects off of the ground is the tremendous expense that running a pilot or eval can typically cost. Other times it's difficult to determine what the system requirements will be without running a system under your actual user's workloads. The public cloud offers the opportunity to move forward with this stuff at much lesser expense and you make your final purchase when you actually have more information to work with. You'll get more projects going at little expense, and be more accurate in those purchases as a result. This is just one use for the technology though, there's tons of them.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Can someone please explain to me why netbooks didn't catch on better? I still think it would be the best solution for me.

I've got one that I still use when sitting on the couch and surfing. They aren't the fastest things in world for a power user ie. 5 browsing tabs, outlook, excel open together with kill the thing. For a single task they are pretty good.

 

[The Commish]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

I don't disagree with a single word of this and that's what's scary. They just don't give a ####. I don't trust any of them with any of my stuff. Partly because I know at a high level how each works and partly because I know specifics of some of the larger ones. Not a chance in hell anything of mine gets out there. I know folks who think it's fine to use these clouds as their back up area. That's how it's sold to them, so you'll find their tax returns, bank statements, all kinds of personal crap out there.All I've said is I can't believe people are this trusting of such a vulnerable technology. That's it. I acknowledge it can be perfectly safe if the time is taken to do things correctly. From what I've seen, that time and expense have not been taken in most cases. That's all.

How do you back up important docs?

I use an external HD local to my machine that connects via USB. I also burn a DVD once a quarter.

 

[DrJ]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

I don't sell to consumers. I sell to businesses and they damn well care.

Even business users are going to move this direction as well, because it just makes sense even from a security perspective. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a situation where you're trusting your data to a faceless giant like Microsoft or google. VMware's model is that they sell the software to run it to partners, and currently there are over 100 vCloud powered providers certified by them. You can find a smaller provider who offers security you're comfortable with, you can even see their physical stuff. And you can have contracts and specific agreements for how your data is housed and protected. It's not much different in that context than companies that have used 3rd party colo facilities for DR because they couldn't afford their own. Except it's far better. Microsoft is doing it all and providing the cloud, like they do with everything. Not liking that model as much personally.Like I said, the larger the organization the more they'll lean towards private vs public on their cloud resources. But everyone is going to be leveraging public cloud resources to some extent eventually.

 

[zDragon]

Can someone please explain to me why netbooks didn't catch on better? I still think it would be the best solution for me.

Screen and keyboards to small.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Can someone please explain to me why netbooks didn't catch on better? I still think it would be the best solution for me.

I've got one that I still use when sitting on the couch and surfing. They aren't the fastest things in world for a power user ie. 5 browsing tabs, outlook, excel open together with kill the thing. For a single task they are pretty good.

What are the specs on yours? My use would be similar to yours with the occasional travel and connecting to the office VPN.I am looking at something like this.

Sorry if this is a hijack. I just do not see how I would use a tablet.

That one will blow it out of the water. The only spec I know off hand is that it has a gig of RAM. It is over a year and a half old and was only around $200~ new (I won it actually).

 

[zDragon]

I don't think you do get it - your data can still be on hard drives you own, maintain, and secure. Not Google or Apple or anyone else.

So how do I store my stuff in the Apple or Google cloud and I maintain and secure it? Not sure what your thinking but once it is up there you have no say in how it is secured or even the ability to know if you have truly deleted it. Have you read Googles term of service?

When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content.

I have not read drop boxes but last time I looked it was similar and they played it off as a misunderstanding.

You can host cloud based services out of your own data center - the concept is really about delivering this stuff as a service and not necessarily about simply hosting it on the internet. Infrastructure, Desktop, Software, Platform, etc as a service. The public cloud only makes up one component, most organizations will be running a hybrid public/private cloud that complement each other. VMware and Microsoft are well on the move here and have vCloud Director on VMware's side and private cloud options in Microsoft's new SCVMM 2012 product.Realistically the public cloud is going to gain a larger market share as time goes on though. IT is getting more and more complex, and most organizations (especially in the SMB arena) aren't going to be able to provide suitable services on their own. This includes the complex area of information security. They'll find it far better for them to leave this to professionals that specialize and can rent them solutions their budget can't even dream of purchasing. At the enterprise level they'll likely end up more on the private side of things, but they're still going to leverage the public cloud for things like sizing system needs before purchasing equipment on their own and other various uses.

I have not seen an implementation of SCVMM that used thin clients as you described. The implementation I have seen make it a lot easier to manage client end devices such as phones, tablets and laptops but even when a "Cloud" is setup it is still accessed by laptop, tablets and phones. Every implementation of these type devices I have seen users keep and retrieve e-mails, documents, etc local to the device. Therefore you run the same security risks even if you make them use a session to a virtual desktop do any work. Then again that is rarely the case in my experience.I have seen true thin-client setups that work well especially in lab type environments such as colleges. The last thin-client I saw was by nComputing. These are simply small boxes that give you monitor, ethernet, keyboard, and mice connections. All software is run off a shared server. I'm not even sure what your trying to say here "but they're still going to leverage the public cloud for things like sizing system needs". Why would anyone leverage the "Cloud" for things like sizing system needs? I'm not sure how other enterprises do sizing but we use very specific metrics based on the technology we are implementing. For example we just setup an iSilon system for a transaction system we put into service. In order to size the iSilon for our application we captured very specific metrics such as disk writes/reads per second,transfer rates, data growth observed during load testing in our IST environment, etc. The majority of our metrics were straight from the sizing guide that they provide. A few others we added.

Because SCVMM is about delivering Infrastructure as a Service. For Thin clients and Desktop as a Service you're looking at RDS on the Microsoft end. Xen Desktop on the Citrix end, and VMware View on the VMware side.On the sizing system needs - one difficulty in getting buy in and getting projects off of the ground is the tremendous expense that running a pilot or eval can typically cost. Other times it's difficult to determine what the system requirements will be without running a system under your actual user's workloads. The public cloud offers the opportunity to move forward with this stuff at much lesser expense and you make your final purchase when you actually have more information to work with. You'll get more projects going at little expense, and be more accurate in those purchases as a result. This is just one use for the technology though, there's tons of them.

SCVMM is about delivering Infrastructure as a Service

If we are talking about the same SCVMM it was about virtualization of servers and scaling. Even using SCVMM most data centers I'm aware of still do not use it for SQL and any other hard core applications.I'm still lost on the public cloud thing. I guess I don't understand how you would get your metrics or any other type of usable information on sizing from using a public cloud such as Google. Exactly how are you going to determine how many spindles, fabrics, or any other resources a public cloud is using for your user load? How would you determine if you were using 20% of server resources or 80% of resources? I would hate to be held to sizing numbers if I was using googles 900,000 servers to determine my server needs.

 

[goonsquad]

"I can browse smoothl-oops... hang on... excuse me just a second..."

(Settle down, it's all in good fun.)

 

[Otis]

Can someone please explain to me why netbooks didn't catch on better? I still think it would be the best solution for me.

Macbook air is basically a netbook, and it has caught on. I love the size. I used to use things a bit smaller (like Asus eee) but I think that fad didn't last long because the form factor was just a little too small.

My son has an Air, and it is very cool, but weren't a lot of netbooks in the ~$400 range?

Yes. The quality wasn't that of the Air, but they were available. For years I was hoping for a smaller form factor version of the Air -- basically an Apple netbook at around 500 bucks. But having used the Air extensively now, I don't know that a machine too much smaller would be as useful. This is probably right around where the sweet spot is.

 

[DrJ]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.

Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

 

[DrJ]

I don't think you do get it - your data can still be on hard drives you own, maintain, and secure. Not Google or Apple or anyone else.

So how do I store my stuff in the Apple or Google cloud and I maintain and secure it? Not sure what your thinking but once it is up there you have no say in how it is secured or even the ability to know if you have truly deleted it. Have you read Googles term of service?

When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content.

I have not read drop boxes but last time I looked it was similar and they played it off as a misunderstanding.

You can host cloud based services out of your own data center - the concept is really about delivering this stuff as a service and not necessarily about simply hosting it on the internet. Infrastructure, Desktop, Software, Platform, etc as a service. The public cloud only makes up one component, most organizations will be running a hybrid public/private cloud that complement each other. VMware and Microsoft are well on the move here and have vCloud Director on VMware's side and private cloud options in Microsoft's new SCVMM 2012 product.Realistically the public cloud is going to gain a larger market share as time goes on though. IT is getting more and more complex, and most organizations (especially in the SMB arena) aren't going to be able to provide suitable services on their own. This includes the complex area of information security. They'll find it far better for them to leave this to professionals that specialize and can rent them solutions their budget can't even dream of purchasing. At the enterprise level they'll likely end up more on the private side of things, but they're still going to leverage the public cloud for things like sizing system needs before purchasing equipment on their own and other various uses.

I have not seen an implementation of SCVMM that used thin clients as you described. The implementation I have seen make it a lot easier to manage client end devices such as phones, tablets and laptops but even when a "Cloud" is setup it is still accessed by laptop, tablets and phones. Every implementation of these type devices I have seen users keep and retrieve e-mails, documents, etc local to the device. Therefore you run the same security risks even if you make them use a session to a virtual desktop do any work. Then again that is rarely the case in my experience.I have seen true thin-client setups that work well especially in lab type environments such as colleges. The last thin-client I saw was by nComputing. These are simply small boxes that give you monitor, ethernet, keyboard, and mice connections. All software is run off a shared server. I'm not even sure what your trying to say here "but they're still going to leverage the public cloud for things like sizing system needs". Why would anyone leverage the "Cloud" for things like sizing system needs? I'm not sure how other enterprises do sizing but we use very specific metrics based on the technology we are implementing. For example we just setup an iSilon system for a transaction system we put into service. In order to size the iSilon for our application we captured very specific metrics such as disk writes/reads per second,transfer rates, data growth observed during load testing in our IST environment, etc. The majority of our metrics were straight from the sizing guide that they provide. A few others we added.

Because SCVMM is about delivering Infrastructure as a Service. For Thin clients and Desktop as a Service you're looking at RDS on the Microsoft end. Xen Desktop on the Citrix end, and VMware View on the VMware side.On the sizing system needs - one difficulty in getting buy in and getting projects off of the ground is the tremendous expense that running a pilot or eval can typically cost. Other times it's difficult to determine what the system requirements will be without running a system under your actual user's workloads. The public cloud offers the opportunity to move forward with this stuff at much lesser expense and you make your final purchase when you actually have more information to work with. You'll get more projects going at little expense, and be more accurate in those purchases as a result. This is just one use for the technology though, there's tons of them.

SCVMM is about delivering Infrastructure as a Service

If we are talking about the same SCVMM it was about virtualization of servers and scaling. Even using SCVMM most data centers I'm aware of still do not use it for SQL and any other hard core applications.I'm still lost on the public cloud thing. I guess I don't understand how you would get your metrics or any other type of usable information on sizing from using a public cloud such as Google. Exactly how are you going to determine how many spindles, fabrics, or any other resources a public cloud is using for your user load? How would you determine if you were using 20% of server resources or 80% of resources? I would hate to be held to sizing numbers if I was using googles 900,000 servers to determine my server needs.

In the 2012 version they've added private cloud features to compete with VMware who is offering vCloud. They have a new cert called MCSE Private Cloud based around it. Virtualization was the first step, but now that things have been extracted from the hardware cloud computing is on the way.On resource usage, you'd have to trust your provider to give you accurate information on that, much like the electric and plumbing companies. The software comes with capabilities to give you this information. In the case of vCloud you can do this in your organization - get a self service portal for users to request resources and then there's chargeback manager which bills them. Delivering infra as a pure service to your organization. Not sure how it works in SCVMM 2012 yet, that just came out, probably ties into operations manager.

 

[zDragon]

 

[goonsquad]

"You know, you could help me out if you're on wifi, if you could just get off..." I miss Steve.Difference of course, is that it wasn't the iPhone crashing, it was just the wifi network bogged down by bloggers.

 

[The Commish]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

We use Iron Mountain to store out tape backups because federal law requires we be able to recover a version of our software completely. Not sure where you're going with this.

 

[cstu]

Can someone please explain to me why netbooks didn't catch on better? I still think it would be the best solution for me.

I've got one that I still use when sitting on the couch and surfing. They aren't the fastest things in world for a power user ie. 5 browsing tabs, outlook, excel open together with kill the thing. For a single task they are pretty good.

What are the specs on yours? My use would be similar to yours with the occasional travel and connecting to the office VPN.I am looking at something like this.

Sorry if this is a hijack. I just do not see how I would use a tablet.

I'm getting pretty good at Samurai vs. Zombies.

 

[DrJ]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

We use Iron Mountain to store out tape backups because federal law requires we be able to recover a version of our software completely. Not sure where you're going with this.

Couldn't you set up a facility that you own that would satisfy those requirements?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

We use Iron Mountain to store out tape backups because federal law requires we be able to recover a version of our software completely. Not sure where you're going with this.

Couldn't you set up a facility that you own that would satisfy those requirements?

We use Iron Mountain also and in the regulations I believe he is referring you have to provide off-site backups.

 

[The Commish]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

We use Iron Mountain to store out tape backups because federal law requires we be able to recover a version of our software completely. Not sure where you're going with this.

Couldn't you set up a facility that you own that would satisfy those requirements?

Could my company set up a third party site? I don't think so. We do have four different data centers that are all redundant to each other, but we still have to keep hard copy at a third party site. I doubt we'd ever have to use the actual tape backup method but it's still required.

 

[DrJ]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

We use Iron Mountain to store out tape backups because federal law requires we be able to recover a version of our software completely. Not sure where you're going with this.

Couldn't you set up a facility that you own that would satisfy those requirements?

Could my company set up a third party site? I don't think so. We do have four different data centers that are all redundant to each other, but we still have to keep hard copy at a third party site. I doubt we'd ever have to use the actual tape backup method but it's still required.

But it would be possible for you to set up a facility specifically for this and satisfy it, that you actually own and maintain? That's what I'm asking. We'll say you're willing to spare all expenses because you want to maintain absolute control of your data in house.ETA: If not, this brings up another interesting angle. Maybe the government will eventually mandate certain RTO and RPO objectives that force you to adopt public cloud based DR rather than antiquated tape. Somewhere they can easily sift through all of it, of course.

 

[Tiger Fan]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

I don't disagree with a single word of this and that's what's scary. They just don't give a ####. I don't trust any of them with any of my stuff. Partly because I know at a high level how each works and partly because I know specifics of some of the larger ones. Not a chance in hell anything of mine gets out there. I know folks who think it's fine to use these clouds as their back up area. That's how it's sold to them, so you'll find their tax returns, bank statements, all kinds of personal crap out there.All I've said is I can't believe people are this trusting of such a vulnerable technology. That's it. I acknowledge it can be perfectly safe if the time is taken to do things correctly. From what I've seen, that time and expense have not been taken in most cases. That's all.

How do you back up important docs?

I use an external HD local to my machine that connects via USB. I also burn a DVD once a quarter.

What if your house burns down? Do you store the DVD offsite?

 

[The Commish]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

We use Iron Mountain to store out tape backups because federal law requires we be able to recover a version of our software completely. Not sure where you're going with this.

Couldn't you set up a facility that you own that would satisfy those requirements?

Could my company set up a third party site? I don't think so. We do have four different data centers that are all redundant to each other, but we still have to keep hard copy at a third party site. I doubt we'd ever have to use the actual tape backup method but it's still required.

But it would be possible for you to set up a facility specifically for this and satisfy it, that you actually own and maintain? That's what I'm asking. We'll say you're willing to spare all expenses because you want to maintain absolute control of your data in house.ETA: If not, this brings up another interesting angle. Maybe the government will eventually mandate certain RTO and RPO objectives that force you to adopt public cloud based DR rather than antiquated tape.

There's no point to do that since it's not going to meet the federal requirement. We'd rather have complete control through our data centers, but it's not allowed.

 

[The Commish]

And really, you guys are completely in the minority on the consumer level if that's what you're talking about when you're concerned about security. Consumers really don't give a crap and will put their stuff at Apple, Google, Dropbox, whatever the case may be if it makes it more convenient for them. They'll buy up some office program that shares all of their files over port 80 with no password if they like the way it edits files. They're about the bells and whistles. That's why these services are hugely popular despite your valid concerns with the security of them. So even if there are concerns about security at that level - it won't interfere any with adoption. It's all about what makes things easier.

I don't disagree with a single word of this and that's what's scary. They just don't give a ####. I don't trust any of them with any of my stuff. Partly because I know at a high level how each works and partly because I know specifics of some of the larger ones. Not a chance in hell anything of mine gets out there. I know folks who think it's fine to use these clouds as their back up area. That's how it's sold to them, so you'll find their tax returns, bank statements, all kinds of personal crap out there.All I've said is I can't believe people are this trusting of such a vulnerable technology. That's it. I acknowledge it can be perfectly safe if the time is taken to do things correctly. From what I've seen, that time and expense have not been taken in most cases. That's all.

How do you back up important docs?

I use an external HD local to my machine that connects via USB. I also burn a DVD once a quarter.

What if your house burns down? Do you store the DVD offsite?

I take a copy of all my changed docs to our safe deposit box once a year. This includes tax docs, investments, wills, etc etc. If the building burns down and they target my safe deposit box to get into after the fire, I'm screwed. It's a scenario and risk I am willing to take though.

 

[DrJ]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

We use Iron Mountain to store out tape backups because federal law requires we be able to recover a version of our software completely. Not sure where you're going with this.

Couldn't you set up a facility that you own that would satisfy those requirements?

Could my company set up a third party site? I don't think so. We do have four different data centers that are all redundant to each other, but we still have to keep hard copy at a third party site. I doubt we'd ever have to use the actual tape backup method but it's still required.

But it would be possible for you to set up a facility specifically for this and satisfy it, that you actually own and maintain? That's what I'm asking. We'll say you're willing to spare all expenses because you want to maintain absolute control of your data in house.ETA: If not, this brings up another interesting angle. Maybe the government will eventually mandate certain RTO and RPO objectives that force you to adopt public cloud based DR rather than antiquated tape.

There's no point to do that since it's not going to meet the federal requirement.

So the federal government is basically saying that you have to have a trusted 3rd party house your data. They trust that 3rd party to protect your data better than you in case of a disaster.

 

[The Commish]

So the federal government is basically saying that you have to have a trusted 3rd party house your data.

yes

They trust that 3rd party to protect your data better than you in case of a disaster.

Not really certain what their logic is behind the requirement

 

[17seconds]

 

[cstu]

Microsoft could have made a successful tablet before the iPad but they were unwilling to make a non-x86 OS that wasn't compatible with legacy apps. Where MS dropped the ball was in failing to realize that a majority of people didn't need those apps on a tablet.

 

[goonsquad]

Such a great talk to have both Jobs and Gates sitting together. Steve stated that Apple developed the iPad before the iPhone, so at that point Steve had an early iPad hidden away in Cupertino. Watching the video, I think it's pretty clear that he was biting his tongue during that question; the interviewer is the one that said "MacBook Pro?" and Steve just nodded and added "and an iPhone". He was obviously holding his cards close to his chest here.

Not to take away from Gates, who was always a big proponent of the tablet form factor. Perhaps Microsoft could have been more successful earlier if Gates hadn't stepped down from Microsoft, but the fact remains that under Ballmer the company didn't get it done. Ballmer simply lacks the vision to see where the market is going. Losing Gates has been a massive blow to Microsoft.

 

[DrJ]

So the federal government is basically saying that you have to have a trusted 3rd party house your data.

yes

They trust that 3rd party to protect your data better than you in case of a disaster.

Not really certain what their logic is behind the requirement

Well, either way, your motive for using Iron Mountain is pretty clear. I don't think federal mandate is the reason that most of their customers actually use their services though. The motivation is that setting up your own facility and/or secure delivery mechanism is prohibitively expensive, and it makes more financial sense to put this in the hands of a 3rd party that specializes in this despite the fact it results in losing absolute control over your data. Based on what the data is worth, how much risk is presented by trusting this 3rd party vs doing this yourself, and how much it would cost to avoid that risk. The public cloud and the reasons companies are and will continue to adopt it aren't all that much different than this. In an ideal world with all expenses spared would you rather have absolute control over your data? Of course. But that comes at an expense. So the question is how much risk does trusting a 3rd party to do some of this present, and how much is the expense to avoid that risk? The public cloud is going to come out on the plus side in this analysis more and more as the technology and companies delivering it continue to mature.In the case of the end user it goes even beyond this. They don't really want to have to worry about any of this stuff, security, technical specifications, all of that crap. They simply want the computer to make their life easier and have us geeks worry about security and all of that on the back end - IT as a service, like their plumbing, electricity, television, and banking. It's not all that surprising that bells and whistles are what sells them. The public cloud has the promise to deliver this, along with a model that's inherently more secure than what they've been dealing with.

 

[DrJ]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

We use Iron Mountain to store out tape backups because federal law requires we be able to recover a version of our software completely. Not sure where you're going with this.

Couldn't you set up a facility that you own that would satisfy those requirements?

We use Iron Mountain also and in the regulations I believe he is referring you have to provide off-site backups.

We don't use Iron Mountain - we ship our tapes to a different facility that we maintain. Large, publicly traded company. We used to use Iron Mountain, which would be preferable today given that the mail guy retired a couple years ago and now we only send stuff up there 4 days a week, but we're cheap. In fact, we had over decade old crap there that we just had them destroy and closed out the account last year. Last place I was at we used Iron Mountain, but not because there was a federal mandate. Because we didn't have any other facilities and were also looking at 3rd party colo for DR.

 

[Slapdash]

So the federal government is basically saying that you have to have a trusted 3rd party house your data.

yes

They trust that 3rd party to protect your data better than you in case of a disaster.

Not really certain what their logic is behind the requirement

This strikes me as really strange...

 

[culdeus]

Sounds like Nokia is going to be the chief hardware maker on this. No shock.

 

[zDragon]

Funny you felt you needed to reply and defend Apple. Why not just enjoy the video?

 

[17seconds]

You will never get any argument from me about Apple being way better at marketing and dazzle than Microsoft. Unfortunately Jobs was a big part of the dazzle and he's gone... But anyone who thinks they really invented anything themselves is living in an Apple dreamworld. Everything in technology builds upon itself, there's rarely ever a brand new idea that goes from nothing to success immediately. There was phone voice recognition way before Siri, there were app stores before iOS, there were tablets before iPad (and even an LG tablet called "iPad"), there were mp3 players before iPod, it goes on and on...Apple should have the a slogan similar to BASF: "we don't make a lot of inventions, we make a lot of inventions better."

 

[zDragon]

Why do companies get these 3rd party colo facilities when they lose absolute control of their data? Why do they hire Iron Mountain to store all of it with the same concerns? Because it's way cheaper.Or on another note, why do you put your money into a bank rather than buy a giant safe and pitbulls to protect it yourself? Because that's inefficient and they've proven to be better at protecting your money than you could be without devoting vast resources to it.

We use Iron Mountain to store out tape backups because federal law requires we be able to recover a version of our software completely. Not sure where you're going with this.

Couldn't you set up a facility that you own that would satisfy those requirements?

Could my company set up a third party site? I don't think so. We do have four different data centers that are all redundant to each other, but we still have to keep hard copy at a third party site. I doubt we'd ever have to use the actual tape backup method but it's still required.

But it would be possible for you to set up a facility specifically for this and satisfy it, that you actually own and maintain? That's what I'm asking. We'll say you're willing to spare all expenses because you want to maintain absolute control of your data in house.ETA: If not, this brings up another interesting angle. Maybe the government will eventually mandate certain RTO and RPO objectives that force you to adopt public cloud based DR rather than antiquated tape.

There's no point to do that since it's not going to meet the federal requirement. We'd rather have complete control through our data centers, but it's not allowed.

I'm curious about this. Which audit regulation requires a third-party to manage the backups? I didn't think that was required in SOX,GLBA. I really thought it wasn't even a requirement in SOX but rather a suggestion. The main focus would actually be the five year data retention. I'm not up on all of the regulations so could be way off base. Just didn't think that was a true requirement.