Microsoft Announces "Surface" Tablet (2 Viewers)

[Clifford]

So basically they came out with the iPad 3-4 years later and that's their big announcement?

I didn't know the iPad had a cover that functions as a keyboard or a USB port.

Had it via third party since iPad1, plus Apple makes their own bluetooth keyboard, so having a tactile keyboard for a tablet is neither innovative nor a game-changer.This is nothing more than another non-iPad tablet. How are those sales doing?

To me the keyboard is not the main selling point. The main selling point is you have a desktop OS on a tablet versus a phone OS on a tablet. If you happy carrying around a big phone fine. I want my tablet to do real work with. Just like I said in the iPad thread long ago. The iPad would be perfect if it ran the Mac OS versus the iPhone OS.

iPad has never been sold as a business computer. It's marketed to consumers. That's like dinging a nerf gun for not firing real bullets.If you think that the appeal of running Windows is going to rocket this thing past the iPad then I have to question your grasp of the consumer market.Here's what's happening in business: people are bringing their own personal devices into work. People use 2-3 devices as their "work computer." So companies who are forward thinking are working on the "consumerization of IT" which essentially means supporting and welcoming personal computing devices (laptops, smartphones, tablets) as work computers, and knowing how to handle them if they are lost or if the person leaves.So while we will see companies continue to buy laptops and desktops, I do not think companies will be buying tablets or smartphones in numbers anywhere near as large because they people they are hiring already have them and will prefer continuing to use their own devices.Companies have already implemented this for exec-level employees and just need sto scale it, which of course if implemented correctly saves the company money in terms of equipment costs.All that to say I'd be surprised if Microsoft can make this a success relying primarily on it being purchased in bulk for business environments. They still have to deal with the small screen limiting the device's use for large spreadsheets, complex design work, and video editing.Word processing and email can be done on anything.

 

[mattdaddy]

I know quite a few companies that have been waiting to see what MS was going to do before fully embracing tablets. I think in a corporate environment MS should have a leg up. Yeah folks love some Apple but the guys making the call about gets on the network don't so much around here. I think MS has a chance to snag some significant market if this thing doesn't totally suck.

I know I would much prefer to have a viable MS tablet at work, not because I care, but because I'm familiar with the platform and I know I can manage them. Either that or vendors need to step up their enterprise management tools for non-MS tablets. Tablets can be huge in the K-12 market, but being able to maintain CIPA complance for take home tablets can be tough.

Which is where most of the Network Admins I work with regularly are at.

Question is who is going to win this battle? The Network Admins or the guys that write their checks? With all of these devices and users all having their favorites, is IT going to be able to maintain that same level of control they have in the past and force users to certain devices? VMware and Cisco seem to be betting against that, and are really pushing the BYOD model. You maintain your control in the data center instead.

The network admins are going to get a lot of help from us software developers. There is a large contingency of developers out there that have little to no interest in writing in Objective-C or Java. There are some and the numbers have grown but by and large as long as Microsoft keeps Visual Studio and MSDN going in the direction it has been then they will keep attracting software developers. The App gap can be closed in a pretty short period of time which is what I think Microsoft really has going for them in all of this. Not to mention the number of machines in the corporate environment running a Windows OS dwarfs the number running MacOS. Getting developers on board to write for the Windows Phone and Tablet will be much easier than getting them to write for the iPhone or Android. Only time will tell I guess but I personally have no reason to jump ship on Visual Studio because of Windows 8 and the new tablets and phones. If they weren't on the radar I would probably be hedging my bets and doing more with Objective-C and Java.

 

[DrJ]

I know quite a few companies that have been waiting to see what MS was going to do before fully embracing tablets. I think in a corporate environment MS should have a leg up. Yeah folks love some Apple but the guys making the call about gets on the network don't so much around here. I think MS has a chance to snag some significant market if this thing doesn't totally suck.

I know I would much prefer to have a viable MS tablet at work, not because I care, but because I'm familiar with the platform and I know I can manage them. Either that or vendors need to step up their enterprise management tools for non-MS tablets. Tablets can be huge in the K-12 market, but being able to maintain CIPA complance for take home tablets can be tough.

Which is where most of the Network Admins I work with regularly are at.

Question is who is going to win this battle? The Network Admins or the guys that write their checks? With all of these devices and users all having their favorites, is IT going to be able to maintain that same level of control they have in the past and force users to certain devices? VMware and Cisco seem to be betting against that, and are really pushing the BYOD model. You maintain your control in the data center instead.

The network admins are going to get a lot of help from us software developers. There is a large contingency of developers out there that have little to no interest in writing in Objective-C or Java. There are some and the numbers have grown but by and large as long as Microsoft keeps Visual Studio and MSDN going in the direction it has been then they will keep attracting software developers. The App gap can be closed in a pretty short period of time which is what I think Microsoft really has going for them in all of this. Not to mention the number of machines in the corporate environment running a Windows OS dwarfs the number running MacOS. Getting developers on board to write for the Windows Phone and Tablet will be much easier than getting them to write for the iPhone or Android. Only time will tell I guess but I personally have no reason to jump ship on Visual Studio because of Windows 8 and the new tablets and phones. If they weren't on the radar I would probably be hedging my bets and doing more with Objective-C and Java.

You still have all of these tools available to you on the back end. But the device being used as a thin client simply doesn't matter. User is happy because they get whatever device they want without IT saying "sorry, we don't support that". They get a common platform for the services you're providing across all devices, easy on them. IT is happy because everything becomes a whole lot easier for them to manage. They have all of the tools they've been accustomed to, and then some. Everything is centrally located and managed with very little on the device to potentially lose and expose. The only problem is that pesky network connection, which is becoming less of a sticking point every day.

 

[Clifford]

As a practical matter businesses still run on Microsoft and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon so there will be a market for a quality Microsoft tablet. I will wait until they release more information like, y'know, cost. But if it can act as a desktop replacement for business travel (i.e. full resident, no VM no Cloud, Office capability), I have tried with the iPad it just doesn't cut it in that realm, and have a better form factor than most laptops I can see a good sized market for this product.Of course it will never outsell the iPad which, while very cool is not much more than a toy and a status symbol, but it doesn't have to outsell the iPad to be a success.

Office is email, word, xcel, and ppt.iPad has mail (which works beautifully with exhange servers), pages (far superior to word and saves in word format), numbers (have not experimented much), and keynote (far superior presentation software to ppt, also exports into ppt format). What is it you find so lacking about these programs specifically that reduces the iPad to a "toy" and "status symbol"?A tablet of that size will never act as a desktop replacement. Neither will Netbooks. The screen just isn't big enough.Also don't understand why we want to emulate the oldest form factor in personal computing. The future is smaller, more portable, and easier to use.

 

[Chaka]

As a practical matter businesses still run on Microsoft and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon so there will be a market for a quality Microsoft tablet. I will wait until they release more information like, y'know, cost. But if it can act as a desktop replacement for business travel (i.e. full resident, no VM no Cloud, Office capability), I have tried with the iPad it just doesn't cut it in that realm, and have a better form factor than most laptops I can see a good sized market for this product.

Of course it will never outsell the iPad which, while very cool is not much more than a toy and a status symbol, but it doesn't have to outsell the iPad to be a success.

Office is email, word, xcel, and ppt.iPad has mail (which works beautifully with exhange servers), pages (far superior to word and saves in word format), numbers (have not experimented much), and keynote (far superior presentation software to ppt, also exports into ppt format). What is it you find so lacking about these programs specifically that reduces the iPad to a "toy" and "status symbol"?

A tablet of that size will never act as a desktop replacement. Neither will Netbooks. The screen just isn't big enough.

Also don't understand why we want to emulate the oldest form factor in personal computing. The future is smaller, more portable, and easier to use.

Probably the same thing that many people have with any non-iPad tablet that enters the market. Office did it first and better. The fact that it's ubiquitous doesn't hurt either because there is no learning curve. There is a reason all other options save in Office format.ETA: I also use a lot of OneNote and Access.

ETA2: Desktop replacement for business travel.

 

[mattdaddy]

I know quite a few companies that have been waiting to see what MS was going to do before fully embracing tablets. I think in a corporate environment MS should have a leg up. Yeah folks love some Apple but the guys making the call about gets on the network don't so much around here. I think MS has a chance to snag some significant market if this thing doesn't totally suck.

I know I would much prefer to have a viable MS tablet at work, not because I care, but because I'm familiar with the platform and I know I can manage them. Either that or vendors need to step up their enterprise management tools for non-MS tablets. Tablets can be huge in the K-12 market, but being able to maintain CIPA complance for take home tablets can be tough.

Which is where most of the Network Admins I work with regularly are at.

Question is who is going to win this battle? The Network Admins or the guys that write their checks? With all of these devices and users all having their favorites, is IT going to be able to maintain that same level of control they have in the past and force users to certain devices? VMware and Cisco seem to be betting against that, and are really pushing the BYOD model. You maintain your control in the data center instead.

The network admins are going to get a lot of help from us software developers. There is a large contingency of developers out there that have little to no interest in writing in Objective-C or Java. There are some and the numbers have grown but by and large as long as Microsoft keeps Visual Studio and MSDN going in the direction it has been then they will keep attracting software developers. The App gap can be closed in a pretty short period of time which is what I think Microsoft really has going for them in all of this. Not to mention the number of machines in the corporate environment running a Windows OS dwarfs the number running MacOS. Getting developers on board to write for the Windows Phone and Tablet will be much easier than getting them to write for the iPhone or Android. Only time will tell I guess but I personally have no reason to jump ship on Visual Studio because of Windows 8 and the new tablets and phones. If they weren't on the radar I would probably be hedging my bets and doing more with Objective-C and Java.

You still have all of these tools available to you on the back end. But the device being used as a thin client simply doesn't matter. User is happy because they get whatever device they want without IT saying "sorry, we don't support that". They get a common platform for the services you're providing across all devices, easy on them. IT is happy because everything becomes a whole lot easier for them to manage. They have all of the tools they've been accustomed to, and then some. Everything is centrally located and managed with very little on the device to potentially lose and expose. The only problem is that pesky network connection, which is becoming less of a sticking point every day.

But it will matter if the apps created for one particular device are more fully featured and are not being created for the other devices because of development costs to do so. Or if the app exists on all devices but has more features for one. If I am given a project and I come back and say it will cost this much to do it for Windows Devices and this additional amount to do it for iPhones/iPads and Androids then the people footing the bill get to decide if they want to build it for all the devices or not. If the development costs outweigh the price of the devices then some corporations will just buy and lend out the devices. The biggest problem with developing for Android currently is testing the apps on all the devices. If you want feature rich apps for cheap they need to be developed on a platform that is reliable and testable. Otherwise you can end up with a support nightmare which costs tons of money. What Microsoft is doing is pretty smart, it seems like its not a matter of "if" but "when" they will be a big player in all of this.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

As a practical matter businesses still run on Microsoft and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon so there will be a market for a quality Microsoft tablet. I will wait until they release more information like, y'know, cost. But if it can act as a desktop replacement for business travel (i.e. full resident, no VM no Cloud, Office capability), I have tried with the iPad it just doesn't cut it in that realm, and have a better form factor than most laptops I can see a good sized market for this product.Of course it will never outsell the iPad which, while very cool is not much more than a toy and a status symbol, but it doesn't have to outsell the iPad to be a success.

Office is email, word, xcel, and ppt.iPad has mail (which works beautifully with exhange servers), pages (far superior to word and saves in word format), numbers (have not experimented much), and keynote (far superior presentation software to ppt, also exports into ppt format). What is it you find so lacking about these programs specifically that reduces the iPad to a "toy" and "status symbol"?A tablet of that size will never act as a desktop replacement. Neither will Netbooks. The screen just isn't big enough.Also don't understand why we want to emulate the oldest form factor in personal computing. The future is smaller, more portable, and easier to use.

No offense, but Pages sucks.

 

[DrJ]

I know quite a few companies that have been waiting to see what MS was going to do before fully embracing tablets. I think in a corporate environment MS should have a leg up. Yeah folks love some Apple but the guys making the call about gets on the network don't so much around here. I think MS has a chance to snag some significant market if this thing doesn't totally suck.

I know I would much prefer to have a viable MS tablet at work, not because I care, but because I'm familiar with the platform and I know I can manage them. Either that or vendors need to step up their enterprise management tools for non-MS tablets. Tablets can be huge in the K-12 market, but being able to maintain CIPA complance for take home tablets can be tough.

Which is where most of the Network Admins I work with regularly are at.

Question is who is going to win this battle? The Network Admins or the guys that write their checks? With all of these devices and users all having their favorites, is IT going to be able to maintain that same level of control they have in the past and force users to certain devices? VMware and Cisco seem to be betting against that, and are really pushing the BYOD model. You maintain your control in the data center instead.

The network admins are going to get a lot of help from us software developers. There is a large contingency of developers out there that have little to no interest in writing in Objective-C or Java. There are some and the numbers have grown but by and large as long as Microsoft keeps Visual Studio and MSDN going in the direction it has been then they will keep attracting software developers. The App gap can be closed in a pretty short period of time which is what I think Microsoft really has going for them in all of this. Not to mention the number of machines in the corporate environment running a Windows OS dwarfs the number running MacOS. Getting developers on board to write for the Windows Phone and Tablet will be much easier than getting them to write for the iPhone or Android. Only time will tell I guess but I personally have no reason to jump ship on Visual Studio because of Windows 8 and the new tablets and phones. If they weren't on the radar I would probably be hedging my bets and doing more with Objective-C and Java.

You still have all of these tools available to you on the back end. But the device being used as a thin client simply doesn't matter. User is happy because they get whatever device they want without IT saying "sorry, we don't support that". They get a common platform for the services you're providing across all devices, easy on them. IT is happy because everything becomes a whole lot easier for them to manage. They have all of the tools they've been accustomed to, and then some. Everything is centrally located and managed with very little on the device to potentially lose and expose. The only problem is that pesky network connection, which is becoming less of a sticking point every day.

But it will matter if the apps created for one particular device are more fully featured and are not being created for the other devices because of development costs to do so. Or if the app exists on all devices but has more features for one. If I am given a project and I come back and say it will cost this much to do it for Windows Devices and this additional amount to do it for iPhones/iPads and Androids then the people footing the bill get to decide if they want to build it for all the devices or not. If the development costs outweigh the price of the devices then some corporations will just buy and lend out the devices. The biggest problem with developing for Android currently is testing the apps on all the devices. If you want feature rich apps for cheap they need to be developed on a platform that is reliable and testable. Otherwise you can end up with a support nightmare which costs tons of money. What Microsoft is doing is pretty smart, it seems like its not a matter of "if" but "when" they will be a big player in all of this.

In this model, the app doesn't exist on the device - a thin client like VMware View or Citrix Receiver exists on your device and connects to where the app is running. This can be extended to just about anything though. With the machines going into data centers becoming so powerful and with network bandwidth becoming increasingly available and reliable, it's the natural way for this all to go.

 

[goonsquad]

I like the Apple fanboys saying Microsoft is late to the tablet game, even though Microsoft practically invented the tablet back in 2001, nearly a full decade before the iPad.

Good lord, this again? Yes, Microsoft "invented" the tablet computer years ago. And it was never more than a niche product because they shoehorned a desktop OS into a tablet form factor. Due to their design incompetence and lack of foresight they left the door open for Apple to create an entirely new tablet market and become the world's largest publically traded company in the process. Good job Microsoft!Feel better?

Virgin?

I'm flattered but no homo. Thx anyway.

Wow, I struck a nerve! Let me guess... you were one of the with Darth Maul face paint on, at the midnight opening of Episode 1!?!

Struck a nerve? Not in the least. You're the one throwing personal insults around for no reason.

 

[cstu]

So basically they came out with the iPad 3-4 years later and that's their big announcement?

I didn't know the iPad had a cover that functions as a keyboard or a USB port.

Had it via third party since iPad1, plus Apple makes their own bluetooth keyboard, so having a tactile keyboard for a tablet is neither innovative nor a game-changer.This is nothing more than another non-iPad tablet. How are those sales doing?

I know that there are keyboards but they don't attach to the iPad and are so inelegant.

 

[Mario Kart]

Again, GAME CHANGER!!!!

Sold my recently bought iPad 2 yesterday for $150. Just wanted to get rid of it. Pre-ordered two of the new Surfaces. Can't wait till they get to my door. Hopefully they sync with my MacBook Pro and iPhone just fine.

 

[Rooster]

As a practical matter businesses still run on Microsoft and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon so there will be a market for a quality Microsoft tablet. I will wait until they release more information like, y'know, cost. But if it can act as a desktop replacement for business travel (i.e. full resident, no VM no Cloud, Office capability), I have tried with the iPad it just doesn't cut it in that realm, and have a better form factor than most laptops I can see a good sized market for this product.

Of course it will never outsell the iPad which, while very cool is not much more than a toy and a status symbol, but it doesn't have to outsell the iPad to be a success.

Office is email, word, xcel, and ppt.iPad has mail (which works beautifully with exhange servers), pages (far superior to word and saves in word format), numbers (have not experimented much), and keynote (far superior presentation software to ppt, also exports into ppt format). What is it you find so lacking about these programs specifically that reduces the iPad to a "toy" and "status symbol"?

A tablet of that size will never act as a desktop replacement. Neither will Netbooks. The screen just isn't big enough.

Also don't understand why we want to emulate the oldest form factor in personal computing. The future is smaller, more portable, and easier to use.

Not for serious folks like you and I, but for my Mom and Sister, sure. If the iPad supported a mouse/keyboard for some apps like pages, keynote, numbers and had a way to download photos/videos from your digital camera (which is becoming less of a concern for non-professionals as their phones take over this role), they'd be 100% happy personal computer-free. If screen size is a problem, they've already got their AirPlay model where you can stream to a TV, it wouldn't be that impossible to build that into monitors for those who want the bigger screen or make the monitor into a dock that replaces the screen while enabling the keyboard/moue based OS. For all that to happen, though, we'd need much larger capacity in the iPad and a bit of a bump in power.When I gave my mom the iPad, it was very clear to me by the questions she asked that she expected this to eliminate the need for her computer. It hasn't and that wasn't exactly what Apple was going for, so I'm not suggesting they missed with the iPad, but I do think there's a significant market (of people who aren't overly represented on these boards) of people who would replace their computer with a tablet if it could just get the few content creation things they use regularly right.

 

[hutchins929]

I like the Apple fanboys saying Microsoft is late to the tablet game, even though Microsoft practically invented the tablet back in 2001, nearly a full decade before the iPad.

Good lord, this again? Yes, Microsoft "invented" the tablet computer years ago. And it was never more than a niche product because they shoehorned a desktop OS into a tablet form factor. Due to their design incompetence and lack of foresight they left the door open for Apple to create an entirely new tablet market and become the world's largest publically traded company in the process. Good job Microsoft!Feel better?

Virgin?

I'm flattered but no homo. Thx anyway.

Wow, I struck a nerve! Let me guess... you were one of the with Darth Maul face paint on, at the midnight opening of Episode 1!?!

Struck a nerve? Not in the least. You're the one throwing personal insults around for no reason.

It was just a joke. The fact that you took it so badly was what made it all the more funnier!

 

[zDragon]

I like the Apple fanboys saying Microsoft is late to the tablet game, even though Microsoft practically invented the tablet back in 2001, nearly a full decade before the iPad.

true but it was terrible execution. I bet Apple averages more ipad sales in any given day than ms tabs sold total.

How was it terrible execution? Apple waited a decade before they attempted a tablet. That's a big difference in what you could do with hardware/software. Apple one big strength has always been how it was apple to market it's product. Just because you can sell 1.5 million rocks to suckers doesn't mean it's the best toy on the market.

You're right. It was great execution & the ipad sucks. HTH

So you have no clue what the execution of the orginal tablet was. I will continue to say that the key to Apple success is it's marketing.

 

[sho nuff]

As a practical matter businesses still run on Microsoft and it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon so there will be a market for a quality Microsoft tablet. I will wait until they release more information like, y'know, cost. But if it can act as a desktop replacement for business travel (i.e. full resident, no VM no Cloud, Office capability), I have tried with the iPad it just doesn't cut it in that realm, and have a better form factor than most laptops I can see a good sized market for this product.

Of course it will never outsell the iPad which, while very cool is not much more than a toy and a status symbol, but it doesn't have to outsell the iPad to be a success.

Office is email, word, xcel, and ppt.iPad has mail (which works beautifully with exhange servers), pages (far superior to word and saves in word format), numbers (have not experimented much), and keynote (far superior presentation software to ppt, also exports into ppt format). What is it you find so lacking about these programs specifically that reduces the iPad to a "toy" and "status symbol"?

A tablet of that size will never act as a desktop replacement. Neither will Netbooks. The screen just isn't big enough.

Also don't understand why we want to emulate the oldest form factor in personal computing. The future is smaller, more portable, and easier to use.

Probably the same thing that many people have with any non-iPad tablet that enters the market. Office did it first and better. The fact that it's ubiquitous doesn't hurt either because there is no learning curve. There is a reason all other options save in Office format.ETA: I also use a lot of OneNote and Access.

ETA2: Desktop replacement for business travel.

I can see this for travel.Wife has an iPhone for personal use...she has a windows phone for work and loves how well it works with her work email and calendars (even have a friend who is all apple personally that now loves his windows work phone).

For my wife...when her phone is up, they are now allowing them to instead get tablets since the phone is rarely used for phone calls but more for emails and calendars. She would love a windows tablet like this for work.

 

[mattdaddy]

I know quite a few companies that have been waiting to see what MS was going to do before fully embracing tablets. I think in a corporate environment MS should have a leg up. Yeah folks love some Apple but the guys making the call about gets on the network don't so much around here. I think MS has a chance to snag some significant market if this thing doesn't totally suck.

I know I would much prefer to have a viable MS tablet at work, not because I care, but because I'm familiar with the platform and I know I can manage them. Either that or vendors need to step up their enterprise management tools for non-MS tablets. Tablets can be huge in the K-12 market, but being able to maintain CIPA complance for take home tablets can be tough.

Which is where most of the Network Admins I work with regularly are at.

Question is who is going to win this battle? The Network Admins or the guys that write their checks? With all of these devices and users all having their favorites, is IT going to be able to maintain that same level of control they have in the past and force users to certain devices? VMware and Cisco seem to be betting against that, and are really pushing the BYOD model. You maintain your control in the data center instead.

The network admins are going to get a lot of help from us software developers. There is a large contingency of developers out there that have little to no interest in writing in Objective-C or Java. There are some and the numbers have grown but by and large as long as Microsoft keeps Visual Studio and MSDN going in the direction it has been then they will keep attracting software developers. The App gap can be closed in a pretty short period of time which is what I think Microsoft really has going for them in all of this. Not to mention the number of machines in the corporate environment running a Windows OS dwarfs the number running MacOS. Getting developers on board to write for the Windows Phone and Tablet will be much easier than getting them to write for the iPhone or Android. Only time will tell I guess but I personally have no reason to jump ship on Visual Studio because of Windows 8 and the new tablets and phones. If they weren't on the radar I would probably be hedging my bets and doing more with Objective-C and Java.

You still have all of these tools available to you on the back end. But the device being used as a thin client simply doesn't matter. User is happy because they get whatever device they want without IT saying "sorry, we don't support that". They get a common platform for the services you're providing across all devices, easy on them. IT is happy because everything becomes a whole lot easier for them to manage. They have all of the tools they've been accustomed to, and then some. Everything is centrally located and managed with very little on the device to potentially lose and expose. The only problem is that pesky network connection, which is becoming less of a sticking point every day.

But it will matter if the apps created for one particular device are more fully featured and are not being created for the other devices because of development costs to do so. Or if the app exists on all devices but has more features for one. If I am given a project and I come back and say it will cost this much to do it for Windows Devices and this additional amount to do it for iPhones/iPads and Androids then the people footing the bill get to decide if they want to build it for all the devices or not. If the development costs outweigh the price of the devices then some corporations will just buy and lend out the devices. The biggest problem with developing for Android currently is testing the apps on all the devices. If you want feature rich apps for cheap they need to be developed on a platform that is reliable and testable. Otherwise you can end up with a support nightmare which costs tons of money. What Microsoft is doing is pretty smart, it seems like its not a matter of "if" but "when" they will be a big player in all of this.

In this model, the app doesn't exist on the device - a thin client like VMware View or Citrix Receiver exists on your device and connects to where the app is running. This can be extended to just about anything though. With the machines going into data centers becoming so powerful and with network bandwidth becoming increasingly available and reliable, it's the natural way for this all to go.

Sure that's one way to go but most client/server apps that run on mobile devices don't do this. They communicate with a service using JSON, SOAP, WSDL, etc. and update the UI client side when the server responds.

 

[goonsquad]

I like the Apple fanboys saying Microsoft is late to the tablet game, even though Microsoft practically invented the tablet back in 2001, nearly a full decade before the iPad.

Good lord, this again? Yes, Microsoft "invented" the tablet computer years ago. And it was never more than a niche product because they shoehorned a desktop OS into a tablet form factor. Due to their design incompetence and lack of foresight they left the door open for Apple to create an entirely new tablet market and become the world's largest publically traded company in the process. Good job Microsoft!Feel better?

Virgin?

I'm flattered but no homo. Thx anyway.

Wow, I struck a nerve! Let me guess... you were one of the with Darth Maul face paint on, at the midnight opening of Episode 1!?!

Struck a nerve? Not in the least. You're the one throwing personal insults around for no reason.

It was just a joke. The fact that you took it so badly was what made it all the more funnier!

Saying "I'm flattered" is taking it badly? OK, guy.

 

[Otis]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

 

[Clifford]

I like the Apple fanboys saying Microsoft is late to the tablet game, even though Microsoft practically invented the tablet back in 2001, nearly a full decade before the iPad.

true but it was terrible execution. I bet Apple averages more ipad sales in any given day than ms tabs sold total.

How was it terrible execution? Apple waited a decade before they attempted a tablet. That's a big difference in what you could do with hardware/software. Apple one big strength has always been how it was apple to market it's product. Just because you can sell 1.5 million rocks to suckers doesn't mean it's the best toy on the market.

You're right. It was great execution & the ipad sucks. HTH

So you have no clue what the execution of the orginal tablet was. I will continue to say that the key to Apple success is it's marketing.

As a marketer I can tell you that if your marketing is promising what the product doesn't deliver both marketing and product will fail. The only reason Apple's marketing works is that their devices generally live up to what the marketing promises. And it promises a lot.

 

[[icon]]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it. If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value. Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public. There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer. Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard. Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

 

[drummer]

I can't imagine being so loyal to a brand the way some of you are. Get a life.

I'm a 49ers fan.

 

[hutchins929]

I like the Apple fanboys saying Microsoft is late to the tablet game, even though Microsoft practically invented the tablet back in 2001, nearly a full decade before the iPad.

Good lord, this again? Yes, Microsoft "invented" the tablet computer years ago. And it was never more than a niche product because they shoehorned a desktop OS into a tablet form factor. Due to their design incompetence and lack of foresight they left the door open for Apple to create an entirely new tablet market and become the world's largest publically traded company in the process. Good job Microsoft!Feel better?

Virgin?

I'm flattered but no homo. Thx anyway.

Wow, I struck a nerve! Let me guess... you were one of the with Darth Maul face paint on, at the midnight opening of Episode 1!?!

Struck a nerve? Not in the least. You're the one throwing personal insults around for no reason.

It was just a joke. The fact that you took it so badly was what made it all the more funnier!

Saying "I'm flattered" is taking it badly? OK, guy.

I'm flattered but no homo. Thx anyway.

This is the part I'm referring to when I said you took it badly. dumb ###!

 

[drummer]

The thread subtitle should read "Actual MS Tablet talk on page Eleven"

That should be when most of you be over goons here.

 

[cstu]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it. If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value. Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public. There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer. Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard. Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it. If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value. Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public. There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer. Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard. Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

My biggest beef with the Transformer is that ####ty AC Adapter. I feel like I'm going to be electrocuted anytime I plug it into the wall. Did they fix that on the Prime? I'm shocked because Asus has a reputation for making high quality devices.

 

[Chaka]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

 

[goonsquad]

I like the Apple fanboys saying Microsoft is late to the tablet game, even though Microsoft practically invented the tablet back in 2001, nearly a full decade before the iPad.

Good lord, this again? Yes, Microsoft "invented" the tablet computer years ago. And it was never more than a niche product because they shoehorned a desktop OS into a tablet form factor. Due to their design incompetence and lack of foresight they left the door open for Apple to create an entirely new tablet market and become the world's largest publically traded company in the process. Good job Microsoft!Feel better?

Virgin?

I'm flattered but no homo. Thx anyway.

Wow, I struck a nerve! Let me guess... you were one of the with Darth Maul face paint on, at the midnight opening of Episode 1!?!

Struck a nerve? Not in the least. You're the one throwing personal insults around for no reason.

It was just a joke. The fact that you took it so badly was what made it all the more funnier!

Saying "I'm flattered" is taking it badly? OK, guy.

I'm flattered but no homo. Thx anyway.

This is the part I'm referring to when I said you took it badly. dumb ###!

That part was a joke, too. Maybe I'm the one that struck a nerve; you seem to be the only one that took any of it seriously. NTTAWWT.

 

[hutchins929]

That part was a joke, too. Maybe I'm the one that struck a nerve; you seem to be the only one that took any of it seriously. NTTAWWT.

I guess were both just bad funny guys then. move along nothing to see here.

 

[Otis]

Asus has a reputation for making high quality devices.

lol

 

[Otis]

OMG OMG OMG it's a TABLET!

 

[Fennis]

A big apple fan friend of mine called me up at work all excited, he told me he's going to wait online to get a surface. Did you see the video he asked me?

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx

"The video looks like something Apple would do! I want to get the tablet, I'm going to line up!"



Marketing works

 

[Fennis]

I'm here for the GroupWise debate.

 

[[icon]]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

 

[Borat]

iHUCKS

lol

 

[Chaka]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

 

[Slapdash]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

 

[Teef]

6 minute abs!!!

 

[The Commish]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

If people understood what it takes to legitimately secure the cloud concept on the back end, they'd rarely go to the cloud with anything. People got pissed when they found out Apple and Google were collecting data on them with regards to their browsers and phones? That's nothing.

 

[Chaka]

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

If people understood what it takes to legitimately secure the cloud concept on the back end, they'd rarely go to the cloud with anything. People got pissed when they found out Apple and Google were collecting data on them with regards to their browsers and phones? That's nothing.

Agreed. It feels like people are just handing them their data. And then there is the fact that if Sony can't keep their network secure then I have little faith that my company can.

 

[[icon]]

]I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

This is my point. The vast majority of the people who will care about stuff like full versions of Office, and a serviceable keyboard, have little reason to chose this device over an ultrabook... ESPECIALLY if the price point is closer to an ultrabook.

 

[The Commish]

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

If people understood what it takes to legitimately secure the cloud concept on the back end, they'd rarely go to the cloud with anything. People got pissed when they found out Apple and Google were collecting data on them with regards to their browsers and phones? That's nothing.

Agreed. It feels like people are just handing them their data. And then there is the fact that if Sony can't keep their network secure then I have little faith that my company can.

They are. It's one thing to put music or some trivial spreadsheet out there, it's another to put sensitive files out there. There's an incredibly unrealistic sense of security in the market place that I really don't get. Perhaps I'm coming off like the "If you knew what our waitstaff does with your food" waiter guy, but it's true.

 

[Chaka]

]I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

This is my point. The vast majority of the people who will care about stuff like full versions of Office, and a serviceable keyboard, have little reason to chose this device over an ultrabook... ESPECIALLY if the price point is closer to an ultrabook.

I agree. Presuming the functionality is there the price point will drive the Surface.

 

[DrJ]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

The cloud isn't necessarily about the data living out on the internet, you can bring cloud technology to your data center in the form of a private cloud. It's more about delivering this stuff to the end user as an on demand service than about whether the data lives with you vs the internet. In terms of thin clients, the model is inherently more secure than the distributed model because of the fact that the data never has to be housed on the devices. You can control whether users can use USB devices at all and have potential to take or expose data via that mechanism. Mobile devices themselves come with a lot of security concerns because they're easy to lose and people love to steal them. Laptops come with similar concerns, but these are even worse. The iPad itself is a relative joke from a security perspective. It seems like every other productivity app put an insecure web server into their app because there's no filesystem and users are clamoring for an easy way to get their stuff back and forth. Then there's the fact that there's a million devices out there and counting, the users all have their opinion on which is best, and eventually you're going to get pressure from these users to adopt certain devices and you have a security nightmare. This model allows you to keep all of your data inside of your data center and under your control.

Another really cool one that VMware has in beta at this point is Project Octopus, a cloud based filesystem. It's essentially like a Dropbox / Sharepoint hybrid for your Enterprise. Should be very cool. IMO solutions that will work across all of these platforms and give you a degree of central control are superior and more forward thinking than ones that are locked to a specific device.

 

[Chaka]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

The cloud isn't necessarily about the data living out on the internet, you can bring cloud technology to your data center in the form of a private cloud. It's more about delivering this stuff to the end user as an on demand service than about whether the data lives with you vs the internet. In terms of thin clients, the model is inherently more secure than the distributed model because of the fact that the data never has to be housed on the devices. You can control whether users can use USB devices at all and have potential to take or expose data via that mechanism. Mobile devices themselves come with a lot of security concerns because they're easy to lose and people love to steal them. Laptops come with similar concerns, but these are even worse. The iPad itself is a relative joke from a security perspective. It seems like every other productivity app put an insecure web server into their app because there's no filesystem and users are clamoring for an easy way to get their stuff back and forth. Then there's the fact that there's a million devices out there and counting, the users all have their opinion on which is best, and eventually you're going to get pressure from these users to adopt certain devices and you have a security nightmare. This model allows you to keep all of your data inside of your data center and under your control.

Another really cool one that VMware has in beta at this point is Project Octopus, a cloud based filesystem. It's essentially like a Dropbox / Sharepoint hybrid for your Enterprise. Should be very cool. IMO solutions that will work across all of these platforms and give you a degree of central control are superior and more forward thinking than ones that are locked to a specific device.

I understand how the cloud works, I don't want my data out there. For a company I am not sure which is a bigger risk, losing one of the millions of devices out there risking that it may or may not fall into opportunistic hands or getting the network with all the information on it hacked.Either way I want my data on my hard drives not being compiled by Google or Apple or anyone else.

 

[DrJ]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

The cloud isn't necessarily about the data living out on the internet, you can bring cloud technology to your data center in the form of a private cloud. It's more about delivering this stuff to the end user as an on demand service than about whether the data lives with you vs the internet. In terms of thin clients, the model is inherently more secure than the distributed model because of the fact that the data never has to be housed on the devices. You can control whether users can use USB devices at all and have potential to take or expose data via that mechanism. Mobile devices themselves come with a lot of security concerns because they're easy to lose and people love to steal them. Laptops come with similar concerns, but these are even worse. The iPad itself is a relative joke from a security perspective. It seems like every other productivity app put an insecure web server into their app because there's no filesystem and users are clamoring for an easy way to get their stuff back and forth. Then there's the fact that there's a million devices out there and counting, the users all have their opinion on which is best, and eventually you're going to get pressure from these users to adopt certain devices and you have a security nightmare. This model allows you to keep all of your data inside of your data center and under your control.

Another really cool one that VMware has in beta at this point is Project Octopus, a cloud based filesystem. It's essentially like a Dropbox / Sharepoint hybrid for your Enterprise. Should be very cool. IMO solutions that will work across all of these platforms and give you a degree of central control are superior and more forward thinking than ones that are locked to a specific device.

I understand how the cloud works, I don't want my data out there. For a company I am not sure which is a bigger risk, losing one of the millions of devices out there risking that it may or may not fall into opportunistic hands or getting the network with all the information on it hacked.Either way I want my data on my hard drives not being compiled by Google or Apple or anyone else.

I don't think you do get it - your data can still be on hard drives you own, maintain, and secure. Not Google or Apple or anyone else.

 

[zDragon]

I like the Apple fanboys saying Microsoft is late to the tablet game, even though Microsoft practically invented the tablet back in 2001, nearly a full decade before the iPad.

true but it was terrible execution. I bet Apple averages more ipad sales in any given day than ms tabs sold total.

How was it terrible execution? Apple waited a decade before they attempted a tablet. That's a big difference in what you could do with hardware/software. Apple one big strength has always been how it was apple to market it's product. Just because you can sell 1.5 million rocks to suckers doesn't mean it's the best toy on the market.

You're right. It was great execution & the ipad sucks. HTH

So you have no clue what the execution of the orginal tablet was. I will continue to say that the key to Apple success is it's marketing.

As a marketer I can tell you that if your marketing is promising what the product doesn't deliver both marketing and product will fail. The only reason Apple's marketing works is that their devices generally live up to what the marketing promises. And it promises a lot.

I still think that you could switch the products and Apple would be selling more. Just like no one is talking about the loss of the 17" screen in the laptop line. Apple does no wrong right now. Like Jimm Lattin said in 2007 "They simply do a masterful job of capturing the imagination of just about everyone". Apple didn't market to the techies that needed/wanted better phones they targeted the every guy consumer. Since that time Apple has had some of the best marketing in history.

 

[zDragon]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

You really prefer to have all your work hosted in the cloud? I guess some people don't work with massive amounts of data. I couldn't imagine waiting to get my data moved, backed up, or worked on over a spotty wi-fi or cellular network. I guess RDP sessions would be ok but I hate working over them for to long on a cellular device. Not only is the cellular spotty depending on where you are at the radios drain even the biggest batteries really quickly especially 4g radios. Plus I have had problems with large data set in sql coming over cellular.I guess I'm old fashioned in wanting my data on my machine. I'm still waiting for the right tablet and this Microsoft one is closer. Apple could have killed if it put OS X on the iPad and giving it just a few real ports.

 

[zDragon]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

The cloud isn't necessarily about the data living out on the internet, you can bring cloud technology to your data center in the form of a private cloud. It's more about delivering this stuff to the end user as an on demand service than about whether the data lives with you vs the internet. In terms of thin clients, the model is inherently more secure than the distributed model because of the fact that the data never has to be housed on the devices. You can control whether users can use USB devices at all and have potential to take or expose data via that mechanism. Mobile devices themselves come with a lot of security concerns because they're easy to lose and people love to steal them. Laptops come with similar concerns, but these are even worse. The iPad itself is a relative joke from a security perspective. It seems like every other productivity app put an insecure web server into their app because there's no filesystem and users are clamoring for an easy way to get their stuff back and forth. Then there's the fact that there's a million devices out there and counting, the users all have their opinion on which is best, and eventually you're going to get pressure from these users to adopt certain devices and you have a security nightmare. This model allows you to keep all of your data inside of your data center and under your control.

Another really cool one that VMware has in beta at this point is Project Octopus, a cloud based filesystem. It's essentially like a Dropbox / Sharepoint hybrid for your Enterprise. Should be very cool. IMO solutions that will work across all of these platforms and give you a degree of central control are superior and more forward thinking than ones that are locked to a specific device.

Enterprise level machines are pretty secure. Every laptop we have are fully encrypted and won't even boot until you enter the correct password. USB ports are locked down via policy, and even have services that monitor for sensitive data to be written and sent out whether it is e-mail, or writing to disk. All of these points are part of the annual audits companies go though. Any phone device that is able to connect to our e-mail system has password pin enforced and support remote secure wipes of the device. The phone devices we use also wipe after 10 failed password unlock failures. There is nothing truly forward thinking about thin clients. They pose a different risk profile from individual devices but they are there. Regardless of the standards you put in the main risk is the user. We had a lady let a coffee delivery guy role a cart in through two secured entrances and showed him to the kitchen area. Apparently he lingered there for awhile then ended up taking two unsecured laptops from a conference room. I have also seen a network breach in one of our remote sites, where we use VPN with RSA, the guy said he was there to check the system and was handed the 8 digit prefix and the RSA key.

Anyway, managing laptops and Phones are not that big an ordeal as long as you have a policy and procedures in place.

 

[zDragon]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

The cloud isn't necessarily about the data living out on the internet, you can bring cloud technology to your data center in the form of a private cloud. It's more about delivering this stuff to the end user as an on demand service than about whether the data lives with you vs the internet. In terms of thin clients, the model is inherently more secure than the distributed model because of the fact that the data never has to be housed on the devices. You can control whether users can use USB devices at all and have potential to take or expose data via that mechanism. Mobile devices themselves come with a lot of security concerns because they're easy to lose and people love to steal them. Laptops come with similar concerns, but these are even worse. The iPad itself is a relative joke from a security perspective. It seems like every other productivity app put an insecure web server into their app because there's no filesystem and users are clamoring for an easy way to get their stuff back and forth. Then there's the fact that there's a million devices out there and counting, the users all have their opinion on which is best, and eventually you're going to get pressure from these users to adopt certain devices and you have a security nightmare. This model allows you to keep all of your data inside of your data center and under your control.

Another really cool one that VMware has in beta at this point is Project Octopus, a cloud based filesystem. It's essentially like a Dropbox / Sharepoint hybrid for your Enterprise. Should be very cool. IMO solutions that will work across all of these platforms and give you a degree of central control are superior and more forward thinking than ones that are locked to a specific device.

I understand how the cloud works, I don't want my data out there. For a company I am not sure which is a bigger risk, losing one of the millions of devices out there risking that it may or may not fall into opportunistic hands or getting the network with all the information on it hacked.Either way I want my data on my hard drives not being compiled by Google or Apple or anyone else.

I don't think you do get it - your data can still be on hard drives you own, maintain, and secure. Not Google or Apple or anyone else.

So how do I store my stuff in the Apple or Google cloud and I maintain and secure it? Not sure what your thinking but once it is up there you have no say in how it is secured or even the ability to know if you have truly deleted it. Have you read Googles term of service?

When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content.

I have not read drop boxes but last time I looked it was similar and they played it off as a misunderstanding.

 

[The Commish]

I actually really like the idea of this keyboard and would consider the Pro model as a laptop replacement. Trouble is, I frequently use my Air as a "laptop" -- i.e, on my lap while on the couch. Seems like it needs a flat surface. I guess I could get a geeky tray or something.

Seems like a decent idea, but it strikes me as still just a tablet with a cool accessory.

Bingo. I use my laptop a good bit on my lap (ie airports, on my couch, etc). This seems like a downgrade in that department. Again... I think it really comes down to price. If this thing is around the same price as an iPad and it has the bonus of a flip out keypad lid, then sweet. It's not for me as it doesn't fit in with my network of products, but I can see why folks would buy it.

If this thing comes out and it's something like 799-999 depending on the model then I think you've got a product of dubious value.

Not that there won't be people running out to grab it, and I'm sure some companies will adopt it... but I think it's GOT to be competitive with the iPad (if not cheaper) to have any chance at mass market success. Hell, the transformer put out a great product that addressed the keyboard option, AND it was price-competitive, but there was NO demand for it in the marketplace. I think right now there is a general public perception that Apple products are superior to windows products with the general public.

There will have to be a margin of added value for anyone to gamble on a Windows product when they could get something comparable for the same amount by Apple. And spare me the "but this has .4 Ghz faster clock speed and a USB port". MOST people don't care. Many tech bloggers have said that "the spec is dead" and while it's hyperbole, to a degree they're correct. This war isn't going to be won on the spec sheet with regards to the average consumer.

Another hill for MIcrosoft to climb is they can no longer rely on the "enterprise will pick us because we're microsoft". The fact of the matter is over 90% of fortune 500 companies are testing or have deployed iPads... There is a massive market of nearly 400 Million iOS devices out there, and there is a glut of productivity software that all but removes that barrier between iOS and the enterprise market. There is the VERY valid argument about how businessmen can't generate full spreadsheets or do major editing on a tablet, which I agree with to an extent... but in that case a laptop is the tool of choice even over a hyrbrid surface device with a rudimentary keyboard.

Anyways.. just some random thoughts. I know I'm an apple homer so most will take this with a grain of salt. i'm cool with that. Makes no difference to me. That said I do think MS has a major uphill battle on their hands... they better NAIL pricing, have a very strong launch strategy in place, and get a lot of units in play in a hurry for this to have any real shot at gaining significant traction.

I agree 100% on the price. My Transformer Prime cost me $620 including the dock and having a 'real' keyboard it's far more functional as a laptop than the Surface is. I have 96GB in the Prime (extra 32GB cards in the tablet and dock) so it's giving up memory as well (at least in the 32GB Surface). MS needs to price this at $599 max and $499 would be the sweet spot. I'd be happy to make the trade if the price is similar since I'd much rather be able to use Windows.

What is not real about the keyboard on the Surface? And since it's running Honeycomb how is the Transformer more functional as a laptop as opposed to the Surface which, presumably, operates the full range of MS products? I am not disagreeing it's just that since the Surface has yet to be released I don't understand how you can know that the Transformer is more functional.And doesn't the Surface come with a 128 GB option?

Are you seriously thinking that paper thin zero-feedback keyboard is legit? I've obviously not typed on it but I'm pretty sure it's going to be make the chiclet-style keyboards seems like world class interfaces. Of course I could be wrong... but I don't think I will be. The ASUS prime at least seems like a pretty serviceable keyboard. Nobody really cares about 64GB vs 128GB... please refer to the death of the spec comment before. With the vast majority of files being hosted in the cloud (company servers, dropbox, etc), there's very little functional need for the added space.

Not to mention that a Windows 8 + MS Office installation is going to hog up some of that space .... whereas an android / iOS install plus an office emulator is going to be much leaner.

Again... for people who demand heavy use of Office won't want to use emulators, but they probably won't want to use the Surface either. That's not what any of these devices are for.

I know nothing about the Surface keyboard that is why I am asking. I'll reserve judgment.I care about 64 vs 128 GB because I don't trust the Cloud and want to keep as few of my files as possible there. Seriously the blind faith in the security of Cloud computing is surprising to me. Beyond that the dependence on a stable strong connection, while a diminishing problem, is still a problem and it looks like it will be one for awhile yet.

Emulators are mediocre at best. Handling Office is a big part of the draw of the Surface.

I am not calling it an iPad killer because I think that is stupid. I am not looking for a tablet because they're toys. Regardless of what we want to believe about them they are glorified web browsers. Larger versions of my phone. I might never get a tablet, the new Ultrabooks are probably more what I am looking for, but the Surface is the most intriguing one I have seen yet.

The cloud isn't necessarily about the data living out on the internet, you can bring cloud technology to your data center in the form of a private cloud. It's more about delivering this stuff to the end user as an on demand service than about whether the data lives with you vs the internet. In terms of thin clients, the model is inherently more secure than the distributed model because of the fact that the data never has to be housed on the devices. You can control whether users can use USB devices at all and have potential to take or expose data via that mechanism. Mobile devices themselves come with a lot of security concerns because they're easy to lose and people love to steal them. Laptops come with similar concerns, but these are even worse. The iPad itself is a relative joke from a security perspective. It seems like every other productivity app put an insecure web server into their app because there's no filesystem and users are clamoring for an easy way to get their stuff back and forth. Then there's the fact that there's a million devices out there and counting, the users all have their opinion on which is best, and eventually you're going to get pressure from these users to adopt certain devices and you have a security nightmare. This model allows you to keep all of your data inside of your data center and under your control.

Another really cool one that VMware has in beta at this point is Project Octopus, a cloud based filesystem. It's essentially like a Dropbox / Sharepoint hybrid for your Enterprise. Should be very cool. IMO solutions that will work across all of these platforms and give you a degree of central control are superior and more forward thinking than ones that are locked to a specific device.

With today's hacker, it's actually the opposite. You're hearing less and less about actual machines being compromised and more about sniffing the communications on the networks to intercept data. The more you communicate your data back and forth, the more chance you give someone of intercepting something. Cloud plays right into that methodology. It should be noted that these environments CAN be sufficiently secured, but it comes at a privacy cost for the end user that most of them either aren't aware of or don't care about or both.