Microsoft Windows 8 (Eight) Released (1 Viewer)

[StrikeS2k]

What should Microsoft do when they want to improve their OS with changing technology?

Improve is a relative term. The fact that Windows 8 is so unpopular suggests that it's not considered an improvement. Most people like Windows 7. I would consider it an improvement over the previous versions of Windows. I don't believe their goal was to "improve" anything with Windows 8, except maybe their bottom line.

The functionality of the Win8 is improved but the interface (not Metro) is slightly different than Win7 which seems to be the real source of the problem. Should Microsoft have implemented the improvements and tried to keep the desktop 100% identical to Win7? From my perspective that is the only thing that would make some users happy (others are still holding onto XP for dear life) because the 5% of the interface that it different seems to be causing some people fits.

Care to unpack this a bit? Doesn't seem like that's the case for Dr. J., and in my admittedly limited experience with Win 8 I haven't seen it. So, please tell me how is the functionality improved? And, if it's so good, how come you don't see any positive reviews of it?

 

[DrJ]

Is that why they made PowerShell too? To appear cool to Linux users? And here I was going to actually give Microsoft some credit for making a relatively useful command line interface that allows for some real automation.

They definitely considered the *nix community when they designed it since aliases like "man" exist by default.

They did, but only to an extent. It's relatively cumbersome to work with actual text based output, so while it's a vast improvement over their horrible command line interfaces of the past, it's still not a very native experience for someone accustomed to a *nix environment despite the existence of aliases like man and cat.

 

[Chaka]

What should Microsoft do when they want to improve their OS with changing technology?

Improve is a relative term. The fact that Windows 8 is so unpopular suggests that it's not considered an improvement. Most people like Windows 7. I would consider it an improvement over the previous versions of Windows. I don't believe their goal was to "improve" anything with Windows 8, except maybe their bottom line.

The functionality of the Win8 is improved but the interface (not Metro) is slightly different than Win7 which seems to be the real source of the problem. Should Microsoft have implemented the improvements and tried to keep the desktop 100% identical to Win7? From my perspective that is the only thing that would make some users happy (others are still holding onto XP for dear life) because the 5% of the interface that it different seems to be causing some people fits.

Care to unpack this a bit? Doesn't seem like that's the case for Dr. J., and in my admittedly limited experience with Win 8 I haven't seen it. So, please tell me how is the functionality improved? And, if it's so good, how come you don't see any positive reviews of it?

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

 

[Chaka]

I will say that I am an avid user of hotkeys, which may speed up the learning curve for me. I am always baffled when I see people, experienced computer users even, try to interface with their computers almost exclusively through the mouse. That might make the learning curve slightly steeper for some.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I feel like we heard the same type of comments when MS first rolled out the Ribbon back in Office 2007 or whenever that came out. I don't hear anybody clamoring for the old menu system anymore.

This reminds me of when Office 2007 came out and I was told that once I got used to all the new "ribbons" I'd love them. It's years later and they're still horrible.

I hated the ribbon too at first, but I became a big believer. I think it is probably more intuitive for somebody who was never exposed to the old format, and I think 8 will probably be similar.

Certainly possible. I'm a heavy Excel and Access user and the 2007 changes were an abomination IMO. I do a lot of stuff with keyboard shortcuts anyway but for the rest of it I just installed add ons that replace the ribbon interface with a 2003-style interface.

Still hate the ribbons.

 

[DrJ]

What should Microsoft do when they want to improve their OS with changing technology?

Improve is a relative term. The fact that Windows 8 is so unpopular suggests that it's not considered an improvement. Most people like Windows 7. I would consider it an improvement over the previous versions of Windows. I don't believe their goal was to "improve" anything with Windows 8, except maybe their bottom line.

The functionality of the Win8 is improved but the interface (not Metro) is slightly different than Win7 which seems to be the real source of the problem. Should Microsoft have implemented the improvements and tried to keep the desktop 100% identical to Win7? From my perspective that is the only thing that would make some users happy (others are still holding onto XP for dear life) because the 5% of the interface that it different seems to be causing some people fits.

Care to unpack this a bit? Doesn't seem like that's the case for Dr. J., and in my admittedly limited experience with Win 8 I haven't seen it. So, please tell me how is the functionality improved? And, if it's so good, how come you don't see any positive reviews of it?

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

The thing that annoyed me about the desktop experience is the lack of a start button and things. I know you can get 3rd party stuff to do this and I believe they added this back in 8.1 because they realized what a horrible mistake this was to remove it, but I don't want to add stuff to get this nor have I tried out 8.1 because 8 made me annoyed enough already. I like hitting start --> run --> mstsc Start --> run --> services.msc. I'm a Linux guy, I can memorize the commands I need and type really fast and don't want to slow myself down clicking through a stupid menu. If I can get a tangible benefit I'm willing to go through the "adjustment period" - like I said, I don't like it on server 2012 either, but I want the TB of savings I get from deduplication so I roll with it. All Windows 8 did was get in the way of how I typically do my stuff. It was faster booting, but I've got SSD in my stuff so it's really not a big deal. I was really hopeful it would be better at patching because the whole hour to patch thing and then watch your machine's CPU spike for 10 minutes after reboot while it "optimizes things" is ridiculous to me as a Linux guy. I only have like 6 Windows VM's in my lab vs like 25 Linux boxes and it takes me forever and a pile of reboots to patch these Windows boxes. I could get the Linux machines done in minutes. Unfortunately that's still there. I think it's just that .net completely blows and there's no way to have a non ridiculous patching process until they rid themselves of that.

At this point I need something way more compelling that "it's not that bad" to make this switch. I need something it does significantly better and that I actually need. But it doesn't seem to deliver much of that, at least in my limited experience.

 

[DrJ]

I will say that I am an avid user of hotkeys, which may speed up the learning curve for me. I am always baffled when I see people, experienced computer users even, try to interface with their computers almost exclusively through the mouse. That might make the learning curve slightly steeper for some.

I know some hot keys, but I'm definitely not a pro here. Start --> run is my personal best friend outside of the 3 apps I pin to my taskbar (email client, Firefox, and putty). And they killed it.It appears I could have used Win+R for this (probably easier doing this on Win 7 as well now that I've looked it up). So yeah, it might be your use of hot keys that made you not nearly as annoyed. To me they ripped out functionality that I use heavily. And since I'm not a Windows guru to begin with there was all kinds of other stuff. "Crap, how do I get to the control panel. I have to look this up. How do I even shut this stupid box down - they've made the interface for even that non intuitive. #### this, where's my Windows 7 CD?"

 

[StrikeS2k]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

 

[DrJ]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

No, if you're Microsoft you actually move fundamental things like the shutdown button. Now you have to drag your mouse to the lower right corner, wait for some stupid bar to appear. One of the buttons on the bar is settings, you click that. And finally you have a power button. Click that and now you have the option to shutdown / restart / etc. It's like they went out of their way to hide it. Maybe they had a lot of problems with people randomly shutting down their machine and they just wanted to make it a ton harder to make that mistake. Of course only an idiot wouldn't be able to just figure this out. Luckily my only Windows 2012 box runs 24/7 or I'd be annoyed enough to make my own desktop icon for it.

 

[Slapdash]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Explorer is one thing that is much worse after XP.

 

[Mister CIA]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Key+E works fine for me. ... that's 'E' as in Explorer, grandpa.

Or you could right-click on Start icon and select File Explorer.

 

[Da Guru]

I went into 8 with an open mind and hated the first couple of weeks. After the 8.1 update and sticking with it I now am used to just like my old system. Just took a couple of months to get new muscle memory.

 

[Bri]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Explorer is one thing that is much worse after XP.

I use clover. Free and I prefer tabs

 

[Bri]

I will say that I am an avid user of hotkeys, which may speed up the learning curve for me. I am always baffled when I see people, experienced computer users even, try to interface with their computers almost exclusively through the mouse. That might make the learning curve slightly steeper for some.

I know some hot keys, but I'm definitely not a pro here. Start --> run is my personal best friend outside of the 3 apps I pin to my taskbar (email client, Firefox, and putty). And they killed it.It appears I could have used Win+R for this (probably easier doing this on Win 7 as well now that I've looked it up). So yeah, it might be your use of hot keys that made you not nearly as annoyed. To me they ripped out functionality that I use heavily. And since I'm not a Windows guru to begin with there was all kinds of other stuff. "Crap, how do I get to the control panel. I have to look this up. How do I even shut this stupid box down - they've made the interface for even that non intuitive. #### this, where's my Windows 7 CD?"

iobit.com has the nicest start menu replacement IMO.

windows X key gives a mini menu

 

[DrJ]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Key+E works fine for me. ... that's 'E' as in Explorer, grandpa.

Or you could right-click on Start icon and select File Explorer.

Method #1 doesn't work in RDP. It brings up the explorer on my local machine. In fact, it doesn't look like almost any of them work in RDP: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-shortcut-keys-can-i-use-in-remote-desktop-connection

 

[Mario Kart]

Call me a dumb user but I really see no difference between the two.

the only thing I want is for my Windows 8 tablet to sync up to my Window 7 laptop so I can use them in my classroom. That's all I want. Or, give me a product similar to AppleTV that I can use my tablet with.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/skydrive/web

I know about SkyDrive but I'm not sure if that can mirror what is on my tablet onto my smartboard. If I had an AppleTV equivalent, I can link my tablet into that piece which would then show up on the board. Will have to test unless you know of a way to do so with SkyDrive.

no sky drive will just sync your files. I'm not really following what you want to do, sorry.

I want a file on my phone/tablet to sync up to something that is hooked up to my projector thus allowing me to use my phone/tablet with the students in a hands on way.

Sounds more like you're talking about wanting the display to be mirrored, like an iPad does over AppleTV. If you want a file synced, you just use SkyDrive...

Yes, that is what I would like... to mirror the thing like AppleTV does.

 

[Maelstrom]

Why did you spell out "(eight)"?

If someone can read it wouldnt they also understand numbers?

Just for anyone searching for it. Don't know if it still does it, but for a long time you couldn't search for any words smaller than 3 letters (which included numbers)

 

[Maelstrom]

What should Microsoft do when they want to improve their OS with changing technology?

Improve is a relative term. The fact that Windows 8 is so unpopular suggests that it's not considered an improvement. Most people like Windows 7. I would consider it an improvement over the previous versions of Windows. I don't believe their goal was to "improve" anything with Windows 8, except maybe their bottom line.

The functionality of the Win8 is improved but the interface (not Metro) is slightly different than Win7 which seems to be the real source of the problem. Should Microsoft have implemented the improvements and tried to keep the desktop 100% identical to Win7? From my perspective that is the only thing that would make some users happy (others are still holding onto XP for dear life) because the 5% of the interface that it different seems to be causing some people fits.

Care to unpack this a bit? Doesn't seem like that's the case for Dr. J., and in my admittedly limited experience with Win 8 I haven't seen it. So, please tell me how is the functionality improved? And, if it's so good, how come you don't see any positive reviews of it?

Windows 8 is better technically - it is faster, runs better on lesser resources and is in general, more efficient than Windows 7 was. I had it running on a laptop from 2006 with a slow CPU and only 2GB RAM (maxed), and while it was slow, it ran on par with how XP ran on the same machine.

There are quite a few positive reviews. Then they go into the Metro/Tiles UI and spend half their time #####ing about that because they spent 5 minutes with it instead of a week. (after a week, you know how things work and the Tiles stuff just fades into the background noise and you rarely have to deal with it again)

 

[MaxThreshold]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Explorer is one thing that is much worse after XP.

Really? Works fine for me on 7.

 

[DrJ]

Call me a dumb user but I really see no difference between the two.

the only thing I want is for my Windows 8 tablet to sync up to my Window 7 laptop so I can use them in my classroom. That's all I want. Or, give me a product similar to AppleTV that I can use my tablet with.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/skydrive/web

I know about SkyDrive but I'm not sure if that can mirror what is on my tablet onto my smartboard. If I had an AppleTV equivalent, I can link my tablet into that piece which would then show up on the board. Will have to test unless you know of a way to do so with SkyDrive.

no sky drive will just sync your files. I'm not really following what you want to do, sorry.

I want a file on my phone/tablet to sync up to something that is hooked up to my projector thus allowing me to use my phone/tablet with the students in a hands on way.

Sounds more like you're talking about wanting the display to be mirrored, like an iPad does over AppleTV. If you want a file synced, you just use SkyDrive...

Yes, that is what I would like... to mirror the thing like AppleTV does.

I'm not all that Windows literate, but plenty of conferencing services give you the ability to share out your desktop so I'm sure there has to be a piece of software that will do this for you. No idea where this will take you, but here's a link to their "Windows Desktop Sharing" service: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb968809%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

 

[DrJ]

Here's a little more comprehensive article that seems to cover it for Macs with built in Windows stuff. Should be a similar client on Windows I'm guessing? http://mac.appstorm.net/reviews/productivity-review/windows-screen-sharing-with-microsoft-remote-desktop/

 

[Mister CIA]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Key+E works fine for me. ... that's 'E' as in Explorer, grandpa.

Or you could right-click on Start icon and select File Explorer.

Method #1 doesn't work in RDP. It brings up the explorer on my local machine. In fact, it doesn't look like almost any of them work in RDP: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-shortcut-keys-can-i-use-in-remote-desktop-connection

Just boot Windows 8 to the curb and replace with your favorite non-MS desktop. Win-Win.

 

[Maelstrom]

The thing that annoyed me about the desktop experience is the lack of a start button and things. I know you can get 3rd party stuff to do this and I believe they added this back in 8.1 because they realized what a horrible mistake this was to remove it, but I don't want to add stuff to get this nor have I tried out 8.1 because 8 made me annoyed enough already. I like hitting start --> run --> mstsc Start --> run --> services.msc. I'm a Linux guy, I can memorize the commands I need and type really fast and don't want to slow myself down clicking through a stupid menu. If I can get a tangible benefit I'm willing to go through the "adjustment period" - like I said, I don't like it on server 2012 either, but I want the TB of savings I get from deduplication so I roll with it. All Windows 8 did was get in the way of how I typically do my stuff. It was faster booting, but I've got SSD in my stuff so it's really not a big deal. I was really hopeful it would be better at patching because the whole hour to patch thing and then watch your machine's CPU spike for 10 minutes after reboot while it "optimizes things" is ridiculous to me as a Linux guy. I only have like 6 Windows VM's in my lab vs like 25 Linux boxes and it takes me forever and a pile of reboots to patch these Windows boxes. I could get the Linux machines done in minutes. Unfortunately that's still there. I think it's just that .net completely blows and there's no way to have a non ridiculous patching process until they rid themselves of that.

At this point I need something way more compelling that "it's not that bad" to make this switch. I need something it does significantly better and that I actually need. But it doesn't seem to deliver much of that, at least in my limited experience.

I will say that I am an avid user of hotkeys, which may speed up the learning curve for me. I am always baffled when I see people, experienced computer users even, try to interface with their computers almost exclusively through the mouse. That might make the learning curve slightly steeper for some.

I know some hot keys, but I'm definitely not a pro here. Start --> run is my personal best friend outside of the 3 apps I pin to my taskbar (email client, Firefox, and putty). And they killed it.It appears I could have used Win+R for this (probably easier doing this on Win 7 as well now that I've looked it up). So yeah, it might be your use of hot keys that made you not nearly as annoyed. To me they ripped out functionality that I use heavily. And since I'm not a Windows guru to begin with there was all kinds of other stuff. "Crap, how do I get to the control panel. I have to look this up. How do I even shut this stupid box down - they've made the interface for even that non intuitive. #### this, where's my Windows 7 CD?"

Definitely looks like you just need a little more time with it, Start->Run has been an extremely inefficient way to operate a computer since Windows7 introduced the search bar into the Start menu. (That said, I still use it for stuff all the time, but generally for utilities I know exactly what they are). For Windows 8, here's a few more things you should know:

• Push mouse into bottom left corner, right-click, run (same as your Start->Run use)
• Win-key + X = Power Users menu - (same as right-clicking the bottom left corner/start button)
• Win-Key+R - quicker than mouse-clicking, same result (Run dialog)
• Win-key + Typing (works in Win7 also) = automatically searches for the program you type, effectively similar to the run dialog but more forgiving
• Win-key + C = charms bar (quick access to search and settings)

Windows 8.1 also made it really simple to boot directly to desktop mode. Enable that. You'll only ever see the tile mode when you enter it to start a program (which it sounds like would be rare since you use the Run dialog so much).

 

[Maelstrom]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Explorer is one thing that is much worse after XP.

Really? Works fine for me on 7.

Explorer in 8 was revamped, and it much improved. It brings in the ribbon interface to good effect. I know some people hate the ribbon, but that is definitely a "who moved my cheese" thing - it was proven through a number of usability studies that the Ribbon is a much more efficient UI than the old menu driven system. That is one of the things Microsoft has done right lately.

 

[DrJ]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Key+E works fine for me. ... that's 'E' as in Explorer, grandpa.

Or you could right-click on Start icon and select File Explorer.

Method #1 doesn't work in RDP. It brings up the explorer on my local machine. In fact, it doesn't look like almost any of them work in RDP: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-shortcut-keys-can-i-use-in-remote-desktop-connection

Just boot Windows 8 to the curb and replace with your favorite non-MS desktop. Win-Win.

I'd prefer that. Problem is that lazy software developers don't always make their code for Linux or do so poorly. For instance, there's no Linux version of the 3PAR Management Console. IBM's Notes client is pretty horrible on Linux. So now I still have to have a Windows VM laying around. I'm really looking forward to the day when their virtual monopoly is destroyed and Linux is the #1 choice of OS. Shouldn't be long at this rate.

 

[FBG26]

I feel like we heard the same type of comments when MS first rolled out the Ribbon back in Office 2007 or whenever that came out. I don't hear anybody clamoring for the old menu system anymore.

This reminds me of when Office 2007 came out and I was told that once I got used to all the new "ribbons" I'd love them. It's years later and they're still horrible.

I hated the ribbon too at first, but I became a big believer. I think it is probably more intuitive for somebody who was never exposed to the old format, and I think 8 will probably be similar.

Certainly possible. I'm a heavy Excel and Access user and the 2007 changes were an abomination IMO. I do a lot of stuff with keyboard shortcuts anyway but for the rest of it I just installed add ons that replace the ribbon interface with a 2003-style interface.

Still hate the ribbons.

Ha, I thought I might have made a similar comment in the past. Nice find. And I couldn't disagree more. Love the ribbon. Couldn't go back.

ETA - I'm not saying this makes W8 worth using. I've only tinkered with it but I didn't think it was that bad. Using the windows-key made it just like W7 for the bit I've played with.

 

[DrJ]

The thing that annoyed me about the desktop experience is the lack of a start button and things. I know you can get 3rd party stuff to do this and I believe they added this back in 8.1 because they realized what a horrible mistake this was to remove it, but I don't want to add stuff to get this nor have I tried out 8.1 because 8 made me annoyed enough already. I like hitting start --> run --> mstsc Start --> run --> services.msc. I'm a Linux guy, I can memorize the commands I need and type really fast and don't want to slow myself down clicking through a stupid menu. If I can get a tangible benefit I'm willing to go through the "adjustment period" - like I said, I don't like it on server 2012 either, but I want the TB of savings I get from deduplication so I roll with it. All Windows 8 did was get in the way of how I typically do my stuff. It was faster booting, but I've got SSD in my stuff so it's really not a big deal. I was really hopeful it would be better at patching because the whole hour to patch thing and then watch your machine's CPU spike for 10 minutes after reboot while it "optimizes things" is ridiculous to me as a Linux guy. I only have like 6 Windows VM's in my lab vs like 25 Linux boxes and it takes me forever and a pile of reboots to patch these Windows boxes. I could get the Linux machines done in minutes. Unfortunately that's still there. I think it's just that .net completely blows and there's no way to have a non ridiculous patching process until they rid themselves of that.

At this point I need something way more compelling that "it's not that bad" to make this switch. I need something it does significantly better and that I actually need. But it doesn't seem to deliver much of that, at least in my limited experience.

I will say that I am an avid user of hotkeys, which may speed up the learning curve for me. I am always baffled when I see people, experienced computer users even, try to interface with their computers almost exclusively through the mouse. That might make the learning curve slightly steeper for some.

I know some hot keys, but I'm definitely not a pro here. Start --> run is my personal best friend outside of the 3 apps I pin to my taskbar (email client, Firefox, and putty). And they killed it.It appears I could have used Win+R for this (probably easier doing this on Win 7 as well now that I've looked it up). So yeah, it might be your use of hot keys that made you not nearly as annoyed. To me they ripped out functionality that I use heavily. And since I'm not a Windows guru to begin with there was all kinds of other stuff. "Crap, how do I get to the control panel. I have to look this up. How do I even shut this stupid box down - they've made the interface for even that non intuitive. #### this, where's my Windows 7 CD?"

Definitely looks like you just need a little more time with it, Start->Run has been an extremely inefficient way to operate a computer since Windows7 introduced the search bar into the Start menu. (That said, I still use it for stuff all the time, but generally for utilities I know exactly what they are). For Windows 8, here's a few more things you should know:

• Push mouse into bottom left corner, right-click, run (same as your Start->Run use)
• Win-key + X = Power Users menu - (same as right-clicking the bottom left corner/start button)
• Win-Key+R - quicker than mouse-clicking, same result (Run dialog)
• Win-key + Typing (works in Win7 also) = automatically searches for the program you type, effectively similar to the run dialog but more forgiving
• Win-key + C = charms bar (quick access to search and settings)

Windows 8.1 also made it really simple to boot directly to desktop mode. Enable that. You'll only ever see the tile mode when you enter it to start a program (which it sounds like would be rare since you use the Run dialog so much).

Yeah I actually use search, I just call it run because that's what I use it for. I do like these shortcuts and I'll have to start using them more though. Anything that can keep my fingers off of the mouse is good.

 

[Mister CIA]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Key+E works fine for me. ... that's 'E' as in Explorer, grandpa.

Or you could right-click on Start icon and select File Explorer.

Method #1 doesn't work in RDP. It brings up the explorer on my local machine. In fact, it doesn't look like almost any of them work in RDP: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-shortcut-keys-can-i-use-in-remote-desktop-connection

Just boot Windows 8 to the curb and replace with your favorite non-MS desktop. Win-Win.

I'd prefer that. Problem is that lazy software developers don't always make their code for Linux or do so poorly. For instance, there's no Linux version of the 3PAR Management Console. IBM's Notes client is pretty horrible on Linux. So now I still have to have a Windows VM laying around. I'm really looking forward to the day when their virtual monopoly is destroyed and Linux is the #1 choice of OS. Shouldn't be long at this rate.

Honest question, do you work in a world bereft of relational databases?

 

[DrJ]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Key+E works fine for me. ... that's 'E' as in Explorer, grandpa.

Or you could right-click on Start icon and select File Explorer.

Method #1 doesn't work in RDP. It brings up the explorer on my local machine. In fact, it doesn't look like almost any of them work in RDP: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-shortcut-keys-can-i-use-in-remote-desktop-connection

Just boot Windows 8 to the curb and replace with your favorite non-MS desktop. Win-Win.

I'd prefer that. Problem is that lazy software developers don't always make their code for Linux or do so poorly. For instance, there's no Linux version of the 3PAR Management Console. IBM's Notes client is pretty horrible on Linux. So now I still have to have a Windows VM laying around. I'm really looking forward to the day when their virtual monopoly is destroyed and Linux is the #1 choice of OS. Shouldn't be long at this rate.

Honest question, do you work in a world bereft of relational databases?

Not yet, but that's the direction it seems to be heading.

 

[DrJ]

It does seem like a long way off in my particular area though. For instance, one of the main applications running on my current systems is SAP. It's still on Oracle, but they're trying to push their HANA in memory database solution these days on the basis that disks simply aren't fast enough anymore. This still uses a relational model though. Buddy works over at Netflix and it seems they're using Cassandra these days and it's pretty clear that the "Big Data" movement is starting to shun them. So it's obvious that you're starting to see scalability issues with them in a lot of applications and they're getting phased out (or moved to hardware that can deliver performance that is orders of magnitude higher) to some extent. Just a question of how fast it happens I'd imagine.

 

[TheAristocrat]

Specific User Interface Debates (SUID) are fun.

Wait, no. The complete opposite.

 

[SacramentoBob]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Key+E works fine for me. ... that's 'E' as in Explorer, grandpa.

Or you could right-click on Start icon and select File Explorer.

Method #1 doesn't work in RDP. It brings up the explorer on my local machine. In fact, it doesn't look like almost any of them work in RDP: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-shortcut-keys-can-i-use-in-remote-desktop-connection

Works for me just fine over RDP.

 

[SacramentoBob]

It does seem like a long way off in my particular area though. For instance, one of the main applications running on my current systems is SAP. It's still on Oracle, but they're trying to push their HANA in memory database solution these days on the basis that disks simply aren't fast enough anymore. This still uses a relational model though. Buddy works over at Netflix and it seems they're using Cassandra these days and it's pretty clear that the "Big Data" movement is starting to shun them. So it's obvious that you're starting to see scalability issues with them in a lot of applications and they're getting phased out (or moved to hardware that can deliver performance that is orders of magnitude higher) to some extent. Just a question of how fast it happens I'd imagine.

Companies like Google. Netflix and Amazon aren't typical use cases.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Microsoft profit beats analysts expectations.

 

[Chaka]

What should Microsoft do when they want to improve their OS with changing technology?

Improve is a relative term. The fact that Windows 8 is so unpopular suggests that it's not considered an improvement. Most people like Windows 7. I would consider it an improvement over the previous versions of Windows. I don't believe their goal was to "improve" anything with Windows 8, except maybe their bottom line.

The functionality of the Win8 is improved but the interface (not Metro) is slightly different than Win7 which seems to be the real source of the problem. Should Microsoft have implemented the improvements and tried to keep the desktop 100% identical to Win7? From my perspective that is the only thing that would make some users happy (others are still holding onto XP for dear life) because the 5% of the interface that it different seems to be causing some people fits.

Care to unpack this a bit? Doesn't seem like that's the case for Dr. J., and in my admittedly limited experience with Win 8 I haven't seen it. So, please tell me how is the functionality improved? And, if it's so good, how come you don't see any positive reviews of it?

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

The thing that annoyed me about the desktop experience is the lack of a start button and things. I know you can get 3rd party stuff to do this and I believe they added this back in 8.1 because they realized what a horrible mistake this was to remove it, but I don't want to add stuff to get this nor have I tried out 8.1 because 8 made me annoyed enough already. I like hitting start --> run --> mstsc Start --> run --> services.msc. I'm a Linux guy, I can memorize the commands I need and type really fast and don't want to slow myself down clicking through a stupid menu. If I can get a tangible benefit I'm willing to go through the "adjustment period" - like I said, I don't like it on server 2012 either, but I want the TB of savings I get from deduplication so I roll with it. All Windows 8 did was get in the way of how I typically do my stuff. It was faster booting, but I've got SSD in my stuff so it's really not a big deal. I was really hopeful it would be better at patching because the whole hour to patch thing and then watch your machine's CPU spike for 10 minutes after reboot while it "optimizes things" is ridiculous to me as a Linux guy. I only have like 6 Windows VM's in my lab vs like 25 Linux boxes and it takes me forever and a pile of reboots to patch these Windows boxes. I could get the Linux machines done in minutes. Unfortunately that's still there. I think it's just that .net completely blows and there's no way to have a non ridiculous patching process until they rid themselves of that.

At this point I need something way more compelling that "it's not that bad" to make this switch. I need something it does significantly better and that I actually need. But it doesn't seem to deliver much of that, at least in my limited experience.

Yeah the start button is definitely what threw people. It exists but it is simply unfamiliar.

I am not sure how mstc.exe is different than a remote desktop so I can't comment too much on that. The mstc.exe command does appear not exist in Win8 but remote desktop certainly does. Would you explain the difference between RDP and mstc.exe?


I personally think it is every bit as easy to open something like the services.msc window in Win8. If you are a hotkey person the string would be to press the windows button then type services.msc and hit enter. That's it. If you use the mouse you would click the lower left corner (which is the start button) and again just type services.msc and hit enter.

The problem with the new start button is not that it lacks the functionality of the Win7 start button, it has more functionality (more complete and faster indexing for one) it's just that it looks different.

 

[Chaka]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Yeah I know how I sound. And I get that I haven't done benchmarks between the two OS on the same hardware but I can tell you that I have yet to experience the feeling of bloated background processes gumming up my machine as happened with XP & Vista (Win7 was much better than those two as well).

Bottom line is Win8 desktop is every bit as easy to use as Win7, if not easier. It just has a learning curve, which I kind of embrace but that may just be my personality.

And if you want the file explorer push the microsoft button (or click the lower left corner) and start typing 'explorer' it will appear (as if by magic ).

 

[Chaka]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

No, if you're Microsoft you actually move fundamental things like the shutdown button. Now you have to drag your mouse to the lower right corner, wait for some stupid bar to appear. One of the buttons on the bar is settings, you click that. And finally you have a power button. Click that and now you have the option to shutdown / restart / etc. It's like they went out of their way to hide it. Maybe they had a lot of problems with people randomly shutting down their machine and they just wanted to make it a ton harder to make that mistake. Of course only an idiot wouldn't be able to just figure this out. Luckily my only Windows 2012 box runs 24/7 or I'd be annoyed enough to make my own desktop icon for it.

I agree that the side bar is just kind of weird, but to get to the shutdown sequence quickly it's M-Button+I

 

[Chaka]

Oh Lord, I sound like goonsquad in an Apple thread!

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Oh Lord, I sound like goonsquad in an Apple thread!

Nah. You're just pointing out the obvious. The people complaining about Windows 8 don't seem to have used it at all.

 

[Fennis]

Microsoft profit beats analysts expectations.

The company posted second-quarter earnings of 78 cents per share, and revenue was $24.52 billion.

[linux guy] slowest death ever... off to ssh [/linux guy]

 

[dparker713]

Oh Lord, I sound like goonsquad in an Apple thread!

Nah. You're just pointing out the obvious. The people complaining about Windows 8 don't seem to have used it at all.

Dude, they even ####ed up solitaire.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Oh Lord, I sound like goonsquad in an Apple thread!

Nah. You're just pointing out the obvious. The people complaining about Windows 8 don't seem to have used it at all.

Dude, they even ####ed up solitaire.

Oh ####! Worse than Windows ME. /thread

 

[DrJ]

It does seem like a long way off in my particular area though. For instance, one of the main applications running on my current systems is SAP. It's still on Oracle, but they're trying to push their HANA in memory database solution these days on the basis that disks simply aren't fast enough anymore. This still uses a relational model though. Buddy works over at Netflix and it seems they're using Cassandra these days and it's pretty clear that the "Big Data" movement is starting to shun them. So it's obvious that you're starting to see scalability issues with them in a lot of applications and they're getting phased out (or moved to hardware that can deliver performance that is orders of magnitude higher) to some extent. Just a question of how fast it happens I'd imagine.

Companies like Google. Netflix and Amazon aren't typical use cases.

Yet. What's cutting edge today will be completely mainstream tomorrow, it's just a matter of time. The cloud era and big data movements are here to stay, and they demand solutions that are far more scalable. If you don't adapt, someone else will and they'll enjoy a competitive advantage. They might even put you out of business.

 

[DrJ]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

No, if you're Microsoft you actually move fundamental things like the shutdown button. Now you have to drag your mouse to the lower right corner, wait for some stupid bar to appear. One of the buttons on the bar is settings, you click that. And finally you have a power button. Click that and now you have the option to shutdown / restart / etc. It's like they went out of their way to hide it. Maybe they had a lot of problems with people randomly shutting down their machine and they just wanted to make it a ton harder to make that mistake. Of course only an idiot wouldn't be able to just figure this out. Luckily my only Windows 2012 box runs 24/7 or I'd be annoyed enough to make my own desktop icon for it.

I agree that the side bar is just kind of weird, but to get to the shutdown sequence quickly it's M-Button+I

What the #### is the M-Button?

 

[DrJ]

Microsoft profit beats analysts expectations.

The company posted second-quarter earnings of 78 cents per share, and revenue was $24.52 billion.

[linux guy] slowest death ever... off to ssh [/linux guy]

Pfft...it's an outlier.

 

[Chaka]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

No, if you're Microsoft you actually move fundamental things like the shutdown button. Now you have to drag your mouse to the lower right corner, wait for some stupid bar to appear. One of the buttons on the bar is settings, you click that. And finally you have a power button. Click that and now you have the option to shutdown / restart / etc. It's like they went out of their way to hide it. Maybe they had a lot of problems with people randomly shutting down their machine and they just wanted to make it a ton harder to make that mistake. Of course only an idiot wouldn't be able to just figure this out. Luckily my only Windows 2012 box runs 24/7 or I'd be annoyed enough to make my own desktop icon for it.

I agree that the side bar is just kind of weird, but to get to the shutdown sequence quickly it's M-Button+I

What the #### is the M-Button?

I got tired of typing Microsoft Logo Button

The hotkey for power down options is pressing the Microsoft Logo Button + I

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Oh Lord, I sound like goonsquad in an Apple thread!

Nah. You're just pointing out the obvious. The people complaining about Windows 8 don't seem to have used it at all.

The desktop mode is virtually identical to Win 7.

Don't bother adjusting to tiles. Think of it this way, your start menu is now a start screen, configure it to boot directly to your desktop (in 8.1) and just use it like you've always used Windows 7

Install start menu replacement, never use metro interface, turn off gestures, don't use apps because you have to sign up for a microsoft account for most of them to work. basically, make it windows 7.

The biggest selling point for Windows 8 that proponents seem to keep mentioning is that it's not really all that different than Windows 7. If that's the case, why "upgrade?" Is Windows 8 performance really vastly superior to Windows 7? Is there some other compelling reason for your average user to be interested in Windows 8?

 

[Slapdash]

In the same way Dr J seems to be having a negative experience I am having a positive one. It seems faster and ultimately easier to navigate.

I think most of the arguments against it have to do with the Metro interface (I don't have a tablet or touch screen PC so I never interface with it) and the learning curve for the desktop, which took me all of two days to adjust to and should only take an average user a week if they actually bother to try.

This doesn't help me, or help your case IMO. A computer seeming faster? There are so many variables. It's very hard to attribute that specifically to the OS. And exactly what is easier to navigate? Quite honestly, one of the things that annoys me about MS is that they move the EXACT same shortcut from place to place from version to version of Windows. I can't even tall you where Windows Explorer is on any given version of Windows because they've moved it so many times. That's why when I find a version that I like and works pretty well I'd like incremental changes/improvements instead of the wholesale changes they seem to think is required for each version of Windows. So I'd really like some specifics. Because right now it just sounds like you're a MS fanboy trying to quell criticism against them.

Windows Key+E works fine for me. ... that's 'E' as in Explorer, grandpa.

Or you could right-click on Start icon and select File Explorer.

Method #1 doesn't work in RDP. It brings up the explorer on my local machine. In fact, it doesn't look like almost any of them work in RDP: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-shortcut-keys-can-i-use-in-remote-desktop-connection

Yep, really annoying.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Oh Lord, I sound like goonsquad in an Apple thread!

Nah. You're just pointing out the obvious. The people complaining about Windows 8 don't seem to have used it at all.

The desktop mode is virtually identical to Win 7.

Don't bother adjusting to tiles. Think of it this way, your start menu is now a start screen, configure it to boot directly to your desktop (in 8.1) and just use it like you've always used Windows 7

Install start menu replacement, never use metro interface, turn off gestures, don't use apps because you have to sign up for a microsoft account for most of them to work. basically, make it windows 7.

The biggest selling point for Windows 8 that proponents seem to keep mentioning is that it's not really all that different than Windows 7. If that's the case, why "upgrade?" Is Windows 8 performance really vastly superior to Windows 7? Is there some other compelling reason for your average user to be interested in Windows 8?

There really isn't a reason to unless you really like the metro interface. Their isn't a reason to whine and complain about how terrible it is either.

I won't be upgrading my desktop to it any time soon but I put it on my laptop and won't be taking it off. If I bought something new that came with it, it would be perfectly fine.

 

[DrJ]

Oh Lord, I sound like goonsquad in an Apple thread!

Nah. You're just pointing out the obvious. The people complaining about Windows 8 don't seem to have used it at all.

The desktop mode is virtually identical to Win 7.

Don't bother adjusting to tiles. Think of it this way, your start menu is now a start screen, configure it to boot directly to your desktop (in 8.1) and just use it like you've always used Windows 7

Install start menu replacement, never use metro interface, turn off gestures, don't use apps because you have to sign up for a microsoft account for most of them to work. basically, make it windows 7.

The biggest selling point for Windows 8 that proponents seem to keep mentioning is that it's not really all that different than Windows 7. If that's the case, why "upgrade?" Is Windows 8 performance really vastly superior to Windows 7? Is there some other compelling reason for your average user to be interested in Windows 8?

There really isn't a reason to unless you really like the metro interface. Their isn't a reason to whine and complain about how terrible it is either.

I won't be upgrading my desktop to it any time soon but I put it on my laptop and won't be taking it off. If I bought something new that came with it, it would be perfectly fine.

Agreed, there's nothing to complain about. Microsoft killing themselves off is good for all of us in the long run.