Mike Martz will not be back with the Lions! (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

You heard it here first.

Rumor has it that Marinelli and Martz had words after the Viking game about ...you guessed it, the play calling. Marinelli has stated on a number of occasions this year that he wants the Lions to RUN THE BALL more. KJ had a total of three carries. The Lions are last in the NFL in rushing attempts.

Also Martz calls way too many long routes that take too much time to develop and Kitna is getting killed..51 sacks and counting. That is not counting the hurries and hits he has been taking after the pass. The Lions o-line is just not good enough to give Kitna the time he needs for those long crossing routes. And Kitna is starting to look a little shell shocked, he does not even look like the same QB he was early in the season.

The bottom line is either Marinelli or Martz will be gone after the season, my money is Marinelli stays and Martz is gone.

Hopefully Millen will follow Martz out of town.

 

[PantherPower]

whoever realizes that Calvin is an elite talent, and needs targets to produce, is who should stay in town. If that means BOTH go, so be it.

 

[Koya]

Not to Mari - YOU ARE THE HEAD COACH. Call the damn plays yourself or assign the duties to someone who will listen to your dictates. Otherwise you BOTH should be fired. (well, I guess we know that already)

 

[trader jake]

Did the Lions bring Martz on board expecting something different?

(Removing ownership and the GM) The biggest problem with the Lions is their defense. Once Martz goes...the offense won't be much better than the other side of the ball. I agree with you Guru, Martz will be elsewhere next season.

 

[Payne]

Not only that, but now rumors are that Kitna and others have lost faith / respect with Martz.

Not a good sign.

 

[Mimo]

I mentioned the problems between the M & M boys the week of the Thanksgiving game.

 

[bulger2holt]

Even though my Rams are in a rebuilding mode with a bright future, I am sure glad martz is gone. I liked him as a OC under Vermeil, but when he got control of everything, he killed the team.

 

[bostonfred]

please just bring martz to arizona.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Not sticking up for Martz here, but aside from the Packers game, the Lions have done an awful job of running the ball lately. Why run the ball and gain a yard or two each time? Yeah, Kitna being in 3rd and long all day would really help them.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

Not sticking up for Martz here, but aside from the Packers game, the Lions have done an awful job of running the ball lately. Why run the ball and gain a yard or two each time? Yeah, Kitna being in 3rd and long all day would really help them.

Kevin Jones had three rushing attempts yesterday. THREE!!! Thats only one less than he had three weeks ago when he had FOUR!!!!How do you know if you can run it or not with 3.5 attempts per game?

 

[Onions]

Not sticking up for Martz here, but aside from the Packers game, the Lions have done an awful job of running the ball lately. Why run the ball and gain a yard or two each time? Yeah, Kitna being in 3rd and long all day would really help them.

Kevin Jones had three rushing attempts yesterday. THREE!!! Thats only one less than he had three weeks ago when he had FOUR!!!!How do you know if you can run it or not with 3.5 attempts per game?

Very

 

[Mene]

Not sticking up for Martz here, but aside from the Packers game, the Lions have done an awful job of running the ball lately. Why run the ball and gain a yard or two each time? Yeah, Kitna being in 3rd and long all day would really help them.

7 Times K. Jones has gotten 10+ attempts. He averaged 4.0 + per carry in 5 of them, and 3.8 in another. The running game has produced, when given the opportunity. Martz just has games where he flat doesn't run. As a homer, I can't wait to see him go.... this lack of balance is ridiculous.

 

[vandyt]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

That does not excuse them only trying to run 3 times in the first 55 minutes. That is simply inexcusable to not even try to run a few plays to keep the defense honest.

 

[MOAT]

As a Vikings fan, I am very happy with the job that both Martz and Millen are doing. I'm especially glad that when we sell out the pass they don't run on us like GB to force us to play the run. If Martz gets run out of town I hope he goes to GB.

 

[Bojang0301]

I'm sorry but Martz is not and was not an offensive genius. He has always got his QB killed and his schemes would be better off in college. Absolutly rediculous the way that offense played yesterday. They have one of the most talented WR corps in the NFL and a high claiber RB. Kitna isn't half bad himself Martz should take a look at Green Bay if he wants to run an NFL offense with the caliber of players he has.

...Oh and on top of this, the week prior to the Vikings he schemed out his best WR Roy Williams. Martz shouldn't get any more looks as a HC after this season either. Vermeil kept him in check and the only reason he had success after he left was because of the veterans in that system.

 

[RC94]

please just bring martz to arizona.

Why do you hate Arizona?

 

[dickey moe]

please just bring martz to arizona.

So they can steep in mediocrity with another fat guy as head coach?

 

[TheWick]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

The reason there Pass D looks so bad is the run D is so good. Also Kitna does not equal Brady. That Monday night Pats thrashing of Minnesota was made up of spread and quick hits...not spread 5 men only to block and run 15 yard in routes while the QB gets killed. A Martz led offense puts that teams defense in terrible situations time after time. Some type of ball control should be considered in a game plan. Martz made alot of middle of the road Rams Defenses looke real bad over the years. This will continue.

 

[Marino13]

whoever realizes that Calvin is an elite talent, and needs targets to produce, is who should stay in town. If that means BOTH go, so be it.

Have you seen Calvin? He looks lost out there.... miscommunication all over the place, I'm guessing that's why he's on the bench as much as he has been.

 

[William Munny]

Always thought Martz was a weird hiring. Marinelli is named head coach, and says he wants to run the ball, then he hires a guy who is known for his passing offense.

 

[Bojang0301]

Always thought Martz was a weird hiring. Marinelli is named head coach, and says he wants to run the ball, then he hires a guy who is known for his passing offense.

Apparently you've never heard of Matt Millen. Martz and Marinelli have never seemed to be existing in peace from the very begining. Oh, and after further review, Martz should have been fired yesterday!

 

[TinHat]

Even though my Rams are in a rebuilding mode with a bright future, I am sure glad martz is gone. I liked him as a OC under Vermeil, but when he got control of everything, he killed the team.

Yeah, they're kicking ### now...

 

[Da Guru]

I just heard a unreal stat today on WDFN. The Lions have not converted a third and ten or longer since the fourth week of the season.

 

[Banger]

I just heard a unreal stat today on WDFN. The Lions have not converted a third and ten or longer since the fourth week of the season.

that's hard to believe....

 

[Spartans Rule]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

That does not excuse them only trying to run 3 times in the first 55 minutes. That is simply inexcusable to not even try to run a few plays to keep the defense honest.

Martz has always been pass-happy and I have no problem with that, I've defended him before. I'm not a big fan of running the ball poorly over and over again. BUT...3 runs in 55 minutes is really going to the illogical extreme. I think it really starts to hurt the attitude of your OL if you're not even going to try to win the LOS.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Always thought Martz was a weird hiring. Marinelli is named head coach, and says he wants to run the ball, then he hires a guy who is known for his passing offense.

When Marinelli was asked about that at the beginning, he said that he and Martz both came from the Joe Gibbs lineage and had some similarities in their philosophy with regards to power running. Not sure where he got that idea from.

 

[Da Guru]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

That does not excuse them only trying to run 3 times in the first 55 minutes. That is simply inexcusable to not even try to run a few plays to keep the defense honest.

Martz has always been pass-happy and I have no problem with that, I've defended him before. I'm not a big fan of running the ball poorly over and over again. BUT...3 runs in 55 minutes is really going to the illogical extreme. I think it really starts to hurt the attitude of your OL if you're not even going to try to win the LOS.

Offensive lineman like to run block..not pass block. When you have 40 passes and 3 runs you will have some unhappy o-lineman.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

That does not excuse them only trying to run 3 times in the first 55 minutes. That is simply inexcusable to not even try to run a few plays to keep the defense honest.

Martz has always been pass-happy and I have no problem with that, I've defended him before. I'm not a big fan of running the ball poorly over and over again. BUT...3 runs in 55 minutes is really going to the illogical extreme. I think it really starts to hurt the attitude of your OL if you're not even going to try to win the LOS.

Offensive lineman like to run block..not pass block. When you have 40 passes and 3 runs you will have some unhappy o-lineman.

 

[shadyridr]

Always thought Martz was a weird hiring. Marinelli is named head coach, and says he wants to run the ball, then he hires a guy who is known for his passing offense.

Marinelli said that he wanted to hire somebody with a completely different philosophy and viewpoint than himself.

 

[Deuce'sWild]

This probably means K. Jones will be in for a BIG week this week!! Last time this happened he ran well (and often) vs the GBP

 

[Bri]

IF Martz left them with some of his knowledge, this could be a real good thing. Some QB coach or somesuch taking over might be perfect here.

I think the tough Marinelli and Martz's high flying offense have been good for Detroit. They began to turn this thing around and that shouldn't go without some huge props. However, I think running more will be key to winning more. Completely losing all Martz has shown them, ruining any continuity wouldn't be so wise here.

Colts, Pats, Steelers, Packers w/ Grant...the best teams can go the length of the field running "every" play or passing every play. He did show them the passing part and instilled some terrific offensive plays, don't wreck that Lions!

Progress (being progressive) is something this franchise hasn't done well. I'm confident we'll find out years from now that Martz was a key cog here. How that will be......progress Millen, progress

 

[azgroover]

Who is this Marinelli guy you speak of? The only coach I ever see on TV for the Lions is Mike Martz.

How many other teams in NFL history have ever had an assistant or coordinator that's bigger than the head guy?

 

[Da Guru]

IF Martz left them with some of his knowledge, this could be a real good thing. Some QB coach or somesuch taking over might be perfect here.I think the tough Marinelli and Martz's high flying offense have been good for Detroit. They began to turn this thing around and that shouldn't go without some huge props. However, I think running more will be key to winning more. Completely losing all Martz has shown them, ruining any continuity wouldn't be so wise here.Colts, Pats, Steelers, Packers w/ Grant...the best teams can go the length of the field running "every" play or passing every play. He did show them the passing part and instilled some terrific offensive plays, don't wreck that Lions! Progress (being progressive) is something this franchise hasn't done well. I'm confident we'll find out years from now that Martz was a key cog here. How that will be......progress Millen, progress

I agree somewhat. The bottom line is the lions do not have enough talent. Millen has botched too many 2-5th rd picks over the years, along with a few #1s.If you look at the Lions drafts since Millen has been here hardly any of the 2-5th rd guys are contributing or even on the team. Those are the picks that build winners.

 

[W1cked]

Not only has Millen botched draft picks, but the free agent signing haven't been the greatest either. Rick Demulling comes to mind. I understand Bly had to go but what did they get for him? Bell who is not serviceable and George Foster who gets so many penalties he's worked himself out of the OL shuffle.

 

[J R]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

Good to have a post from someone paying attention to the games, not just the received narratives they get from espn. Marinelli's D has been sucking for a long time now, and yet every week I gotta see a thread with a bunch of posts complaining about Martz. Minnesota's offense had the ball 4 times in the 1st half, and scored TDs every time, adding a 5th on a KR. No one running an offense with the mediocre talent Detroit has is going to keep up with that. And there's no time to worry about establishing the run, getting KJ carries when it's not working, etc. when you know that as soon as you hava a drive where you don't score, you're going to be down 2 TDs. Detroit had a drive to midfield that set up a punt to Minnesota's 13, plus 10 points in their 1st 3 possessions, they've used nearly half the TOP in the game to that point, racked up 140 yards, and yet they're down 21-10 at that point. If any coach should be run out of town on merit in Detroit, it's Marinelli.

 

[J R]

Not only has Millen botched draft picks, but the free agent signing haven't been the greatest either. Rick Demulling comes to mind. I understand Bly had to go but what did they get for him? Bell who is not serviceable and George Foster who gets so many penalties he's worked himself out of the OL shuffle.

Good point. Bell and Foster is a terrible haul for Bly. And once you decide to hire Martz, don't you have to commit to getting talent at OT? There's no use complaining about how Martz sends out too many guys for routes and leaves his OTs on "an island" against the DEs. You know that going in when you hire him. But instead of drafting Joe Thomas, Millen trades for George Foster.Another thing about all this complaining over how little Martz runs the ball - don't they also throw a fair amount of short passes that are essentially like run plays? KJ's catches went from about 1.5 to 5 per game between 2005 and 2006 not just by accident.

 

[Da Guru]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

Good to have a post from someone paying attention to the games, not just the received narratives they get from espn. Marinelli's D has been sucking for a long time now, and yet every week I gotta see a thread with a bunch of posts complaining about Martz. Minnesota's offense had the ball 4 times in the 1st half, and scored TDs every time, adding a 5th on a KR. No one running an offense with the mediocre talent Detroit has is going to keep up with that. And there's no time to worry about establishing the run, getting KJ carries when it's not working, etc. when you know that as soon as you hava a drive where you don't score, you're going to be down 2 TDs. Detroit had a drive to midfield that set up a punt to Minnesota's 13, plus 10 points in their 1st 3 possessions, they've used nearly half the TOP in the game to that point, racked up 140 yards, and yet they're down 21-10 at that point. If any coach should be run out of town on merit in Detroit, it's Marinelli.

How can you say it is not working? 3 carries the whole game? And on one of the carries Kitna fumbled the snap and Jones should have been nailed for a 5 yard loss but turned into a one yard gain. Ryan Grant had 25 carries for 120 yards against Minny a couple of weeks ago.When Kitna throws all the time he is a turnover machine. Either INTs or fumbles when being hit all the time.

 

[W1cked]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

Good to have a post from someone paying attention to the games, not just the received narratives they get from espn. Marinelli's D has been sucking for a long time now, and yet every week I gotta see a thread with a bunch of posts complaining about Martz. Minnesota's offense had the ball 4 times in the 1st half, and scored TDs every time, adding a 5th on a KR. No one running an offense with the mediocre talent Detroit has is going to keep up with that. And there's no time to worry about establishing the run, getting KJ carries when it's not working, etc. when you know that as soon as you hava a drive where you don't score, you're going to be down 2 TDs. Detroit had a drive to midfield that set up a punt to Minnesota's 13, plus 10 points in their 1st 3 possessions, they've used nearly half the TOP in the game to that point, racked up 140 yards, and yet they're down 21-10 at that point. If any coach should be run out of town on merit in Detroit, it's Marinelli.

The defense hasn't been great... it was working early because it lived off of creating turnovers and getting off the field. Shaun Rogers has vanished lately. Overall the talent isn't there on defense. The Lions defense is not one that you can lean on waiting for the offense to get going. I understand the Vikings have a great run defense... but this isn't just a a one week. Let's throw the ball type of deal. It been going on for several weeks. An Martz does have to take the blame because he is calling Kitna to drop back in five step drop a majority of the time while abanding the run with a patchwork offensive line. Defensives know what's coming and man to man... guys are getting beat on the OL and KItna is getting killed. Martz could easily help the sitution by having his WR run some slants, shorter routes.. run the ball. Draws. screens. To ease that pressure... but he is too stubborn and thinks he's going to hit his 30+ yard strikes all day.

 

[J R]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

Good to have a post from someone paying attention to the games, not just the received narratives they get from espn. Marinelli's D has been sucking for a long time now, and yet every week I gotta see a thread with a bunch of posts complaining about Martz. Minnesota's offense had the ball 4 times in the 1st half, and scored TDs every time, adding a 5th on a KR. No one running an offense with the mediocre talent Detroit has is going to keep up with that. And there's no time to worry about establishing the run, getting KJ carries when it's not working, etc. when you know that as soon as you hava a drive where you don't score, you're going to be down 2 TDs. Detroit had a drive to midfield that set up a punt to Minnesota's 13, plus 10 points in their 1st 3 possessions, they've used nearly half the TOP in the game to that point, racked up 140 yards, and yet they're down 21-10 at that point. If any coach should be run out of town on merit in Detroit, it's Marinelli.

How can you say it is not working? 3 carries the whole game? And on one of the carries Kitna fumbled the snap and Jones should have been nailed for a 5 yard loss but turned into a one yard gain. Ryan Grant had 25 carries for 120 yards against Minny a couple of weeks ago.When Kitna throws all the time he is a turnover machine. Either INTs or fumbles when being hit all the time.

My comments apply to the season as a whole, not just to 1 game. Last game they came out planning to throw a ton, I assume. The Vikings have given up the most passing attempts in the league probably because they are so hard to run on. That's what makes it so stupid that people jump in here complaining that if only Martz had given the ball to Kevin Jones more because in games where he gets x number of carries he does so-and-so. The fact that a really good team had some success in 1 game doesn't overrule a season's worth of stats. The Vikings rush DVOA is -28% going into that game, but their pass DVOA is +13%. It makes sense to throw against them.Detroit's not a good team. They have an OK offense that has matchup problems and a bad defense that gives up a lot of points while doing it slowly keeping the offense off the field. Some games they're just going to get killed, and there's nothing much to do about it. Giving a mediocre player like Kevin Jones the ball more isn't going to fix anything. Maybe you want to see them punt some of these games and run the clock out after their defense gets killed. Maybe they should run the ball more to save Kitna some of the pounding he takes. Those are valid arguments, but they're not going to lead to winning more games, just losing in more conventional manner. Why does anyone care about saving Kitna? Let him take his beating. Some of it is his own fault for hanging onto the ball too long, and he doesn't have a lot of future value to the Lions anyway.

 

[dudaman]

For all of us who drafted Drew Stanton because he was attending "Mike Martz U" - nooooooooooo!

 

[Da Guru]

Vikings have amongst the worst pass Ds in the NFL. Vikings have likely the best run D in the NFL. Why would they run it? Did people criticize the Pats for not running against Minny last year? It wasnt Martz's fault that Marinelli's D couldnt stop anything.

Good to have a post from someone paying attention to the games, not just the received narratives they get from espn. Marinelli's D has been sucking for a long time now, and yet every week I gotta see a thread with a bunch of posts complaining about Martz. Minnesota's offense had the ball 4 times in the 1st half, and scored TDs every time, adding a 5th on a KR. No one running an offense with the mediocre talent Detroit has is going to keep up with that. And there's no time to worry about establishing the run, getting KJ carries when it's not working, etc. when you know that as soon as you hava a drive where you don't score, you're going to be down 2 TDs. Detroit had a drive to midfield that set up a punt to Minnesota's 13, plus 10 points in their 1st 3 possessions, they've used nearly half the TOP in the game to that point, racked up 140 yards, and yet they're down 21-10 at that point. If any coach should be run out of town on merit in Detroit, it's Marinelli.

How can you say it is not working? 3 carries the whole game? And on one of the carries Kitna fumbled the snap and Jones should have been nailed for a 5 yard loss but turned into a one yard gain. Ryan Grant had 25 carries for 120 yards against Minny a couple of weeks ago.When Kitna throws all the time he is a turnover machine. Either INTs or fumbles when being hit all the time.

My comments apply to the season as a whole, not just to 1 game. Last game they came out planning to throw a ton, I assume. The Vikings have given up the most passing attempts in the league probably because they are so hard to run on. That's what makes it so stupid that people jump in here complaining that if only Martz had given the ball to Kevin Jones more because in games where he gets x number of carries he does so-and-so. The fact that a really good team had some success in 1 game doesn't overrule a season's worth of stats. The Vikings rush DVOA is -28% going into that game, but their pass DVOA is +13%. It makes sense to throw against them.Detroit's not a good team. They have an OK offense that has matchup problems and a bad defense that gives up a lot of points while doing it slowly keeping the offense off the field. Some games they're just going to get killed, and there's nothing much to do about it. Giving a mediocre player like Kevin Jones the ball more isn't going to fix anything. Maybe you want to see them punt some of these games and run the clock out after their defense gets killed. Maybe they should run the ball more to save Kitna some of the pounding he takes. Those are valid arguments, but they're not going to lead to winning more games, just losing in more conventional manner. Why does anyone care about saving Kitna? Let him take his beating. Some of it is his own fault for hanging onto the ball too long, and he doesn't have a lot of future value to the Lions anyway.

Kitna does hold on to the ball way tool long, he never just throws it away.

 

[Greco]

I just heard a unreal stat today on WDFN. The Lions have not converted a third and ten or longer since the fourth week of the season.

that's hard to believe....

True. Last one was against Phildelphia after they were down by 35 points. Marinelli is a dope. Millen is an idiot. Martz is a moron. WE ARE....DETROIT!

 

[J R]

You heard it here first.Rumor has it that Marinelli and Martz had words after the Viking game about ...you guessed it, the play calling. Marinelli has stated on a number of occasions this year that he wants the Lions to RUN THE BALL more. KJ had a total of three carries. The Lions are last in the NFL in rushing attempts. Also Martz calls way too many long routes that take too much time to develop and Kitna is getting killed..51 sacks and counting. That is not counting the hurries and hits he has been taking after the pass. The Lions o-line is just not good enough to give Kitna the time he needs for those long crossing routes. And Kitna is starting to look a little shell shocked, he does not even look like the same QB he was early in the season.The bottom line is either Marinelli or Martz will be gone after the season, my money is Marinelli stays and Martz is gone.Hopefully Millen will follow Martz out of town.

Back to the top . . . If you had to choose, why would you run Martz out and keep Marinelli? At least Martz has had some success in the league. And why is that if there are indeed issues or words or problems between Marinelli and Martz, the blame falls solely on Martz? And if Marinelli is going to bust Mad Mike's balls about his play-calling, why do it in a game where his defense gave up 35 points by halftime?I can't imagine Millen can fire another HC and keep his job. Would that make 4 HCs? So it makes sense to scapegoat Martz in that sense. But winning 6 games with the talent they have should be enough for Marinelli and Martz to keep their jobs imo. The fast start against a weak schedule created unrealistic expectations.

 

[mofo313]

50 years of ####ty football and counting.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I can't imagine Millen can fire another HC and keep his job.

I can imagine Millen taking an American flag out to the 50-yard line at halftime of every Lions home game and urinating on it, and still keeping his job.If it was possible for Millen to get fired based on job performance, it would've happened by now. Normal football logic like "he's had X number of losing seasons" or "he's gone through X number of coaches" doesn't apply to this situation.

 

[mofo313]

I can't imagine Millen can fire another HC and keep his job.

I can imagine Millen taking an American flag out to the 50-yard line at halftime of every Lions home game and urinating on it, and still keeping his job.If it was possible for Millen to get fired based on job performance, it would've happened by now. Normal football logic like "he's had X number of losing seasons" or "he's gone through X number of coaches" doesn't apply to this situation.

I think once WCF passes you'll see an immediate resurgence a la the Chicago Blackhawks after Bill Wirtz passed.

 

[fatness]

I agree somewhat. The bottom line is the lions do not have enough talent.

They might be losing some more talent: Link

Williams, Jones likely to leave

by Tom Kowalski

Tuesday December 04, 2007, 12:15 AM

ALLEN PARK -- Neither player will say it publicly, but two of Detroit's best offensive players -- receiver Roy Williams and running back Kevin Jones -- are counting the days until they can leave Detroit.

edit: this is already a separate thread. Sorry, didn't see it.

 

[J R]

I agree somewhat. The bottom line is the lions do not have enough talent.

They might be losing some more talent: Link

Williams, Jones likely to leave

by Tom Kowalski

Tuesday December 04, 2007, 12:15 AM

ALLEN PARK -- Neither player will say it publicly, but two of Detroit's best offensive players -- receiver Roy Williams and running back Kevin Jones -- are counting the days until they can leave Detroit.

edit: this is already a separate thread. Sorry, didn't see it.

I don't see how that would be a huge loss for Detroit. Jones hasn't put up a plus DVOA since his rookie year (and only just barely then), and now he has an injury that i judge from reading this board to be one that will linger with him for a long time.Williams is similar. He has one good year by DVOA in 4 years, and that only placed him 21st overall. Here's Detroit's WRs by DVOA this year:

Johnson +17.0

Furrey +11.8

McDonald +10.9

Williams -1.5

He looks to me like a good but not irreplaceable WR. The money being paid to him would be better spent on the OL.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I agree somewhat. The bottom line is the lions do not have enough talent.

They might be losing some more talent: Link

Williams, Jones likely to leave

by Tom Kowalski

Tuesday December 04, 2007, 12:15 AM

ALLEN PARK -- Neither player will say it publicly, but two of Detroit's best offensive players -- receiver Roy Williams and running back Kevin Jones -- are counting the days until they can leave Detroit.

edit: this is already a separate thread. Sorry, didn't see it.

I don't see how that would be a huge loss for Detroit. Jones hasn't put up a plus DVOA since his rookie year (and only just barely then), and now he has an injury that i judge from reading this board to be one that will linger with him for a long time.Williams is similar. He has one good year by DVOA in 4 years, and that only placed him 21st overall. Here's Detroit's WRs by DVOA this year:

Johnson +17.0

Furrey +11.8

McDonald +10.9

Williams -1.5

He looks to me like a good but not irreplaceable WR. The money being paid to him would be better spent on the OL.

I've been thinking this about Roy for awhile. Hadn't looked at the footballoutsiders stats but I'm not surprised by them. He's just too unreliable, too many drops, too many passes he catches beyond the first down marker that end up bringing up 4th and 1 because he runs backwards. In a perfect world you'd love to keep him, but in the salary cap NFL his cost will greatly exceed his utility. The Lions are already overpaying good-but-not-great players like Jeff Backus and Cory Redding. Can't afford too many more of those.