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Same here...
I was about to do the same in one of my leagues, got pissed at myself for not having faith, and switched them 10 minutes before kickoff. I'm currently ahead in that game by a measly 3 points with each of us having 1 player to go. If I hang on it'll be that late MSW TD and 2 pointer that saved me. I'm beginning to expect these 7-91-1 games from our boy!Ya gotta believe!Same here...
Those are 3 guys this week that I would have sat him for. That's a pretty good WR group. Congrats.Sat him.
Thanks. Keeper league. Unfortunately my RBs have been meh (including Portis & BettsThose are 3 guys this week that I would have sat him for. That's a pretty good WR group. Congrats.Sat him.
) and my QB (Warner) got dinged today. Hopefully it's not serious.
Even if Austin shows you something, I don't see how you could bench MSW. He's reached elite status.
I honestly don't think this is a decision. You have nice depth, but you start MSW over those two guys without question. Will one of them outscore MSW once in awhile? Probably, but MSW should be your starter from here on out.
Start himAnd props to CP again!
Every week starter regardless of matchup.
He won't see my bench the rest of the year.Ditto on the props to CP.
I can only give semi-props as he got put on my taxi squad instead of my actual dynasty roster. I'm now watching my best WR go off on my bench each week because if I pull him off, he becomes a FA at the end of the year and WR's are hard to come by in our league. I'm in last place though, so with the #1 rookie draft pick and adding MSW, I should have a great team next year. So, yeah, semi-props.
Thoughts on MSW next year ??His he a top 10 WR ?Keeper ?
Bought him for a $1, keeping him for $11 as there is a $10 tax on all keepers in our league. I would say if you are not in auction and can keep 3+ players, he is a great #3, borderline #2
Hes produced as a #1 every single week that he was expected to be starting except for once. He is a top 10 WR at this point and in dynasty thank your lucky stars.I didn't get him in the league I am in with CP but I got him in my other dynasty league thankfully.Edit: I am amazed how much he is being under rated at this point. Can someone tell me one thing they don't like about him? Injuries were one thing to be fearful of but it looks like that is behind him. Garrard as a QB isn't ideal but him and MSW seem to have chemistry. I have him about the #6 WR in dynasty leagues after Fitzgerald, Johnsonx2, Vjax, and Wayne. I don't know if I could pull the trigger in a 1-for-1 for anyone else.
I'm loving me some MSW. I got him as a free agent in my dynasty league, and I got him as an end-of-the-draft flier in my keeper league where we keep 3, and all players cost a draft pick 2 rounds higher than what they cost the year before, no time limit (I could very well wind up keeping him for the next 6-8 years). With that said... this is too far over the top. MSW looks good, but he hasn't shown the elite skills that the other guys have shown. He's a very good WR, not a dominant WR like the other guys you named. I'd take Roddy, Colston, or Desean over MSW in a heartbeat. As long as I had a very strong core, I'd also take Moss, Smiff, or Ochocinco over him, too. Bowe, Crabtree, and Harvin are all in the discussion, too. As are Austin and Sidney Rice. And, of course, Welker and Marshall.Granted, he's a very valuable fantasy asset, but no way does he belong anywhere near those top 5 guys, who are borderline-irreplaceable pieces. I could see ranking him anywhere between 10 and 20.one time said:
Agreed with top 5.... but I think he is at least in discussion with 6-10.
Depending on your league and whether or not Sidney Rice was a WW add, I think he gots em all beat. But I don't think Austin even deserves to be in the conversation, he had 2 huge weeks with flukey TD's and what not, he has since disappeared from the face of the earth. MSW been about as consistant as they come.
I'm not sure about that. Rice has had some big yardage games, but he has less TDs (4) in more games (10) than MSW has had. Plus, it depends on your league. If it's a keeper/dynasty league, I think MSW has more stability. Favre is pretty old, and he could retire (then un-retire, then retire, then un-retire, then reitre, etc, etc, etc) at the end of this year. Who knows what kind of rapport Rice will have with Tavaris/Rosenfels/draft pick or FA QB they have if that happens?
I dont know who said anything about top 5. I believe the top 5 are in a tier of their own and then everyone else has questions. I own both roddy and MSW and trust MSW more. Colsten or Jennings would be the only other two WRs I would probably trade him for. Desean Jackson I like but I like MSW a hair better than him. Having said that, I dont think I would trade one for the other and vice-versa. MSW is a 6-10 ranked dynasty WR in the same tier as Colsten, Jennings, Desean Jackson, and Roddy White.Edit: Im one of the biggest fans of Moss but starting next year his is 33 and Im not sure how much longer he will be elite. I like to take a more sure thing.
I understand why you feel that way, and I respect that, but I wouldn't ever discuss him there. There are at least 12 guys out there that, if they were offered to me, I would trade MSW in the barest blink of an eye rather than risk having the offer withdrawn in the next 5 seconds. Sims-Walker is having a great season, and he looks very good, but my eyes never told me that he was potentially uncoverable like those dozen guys are.
When I began this thread I had high hopes for him for dynasty. I thought he'd do nicely early on this year and really well beginning about mid-season, but what he's done has exceeded my highest expectations. He's 25 and still learning. The really good news is he's very dedicated and will keep getting better. So I'd say yes, a keeper unless you have a crazy-good WR group. I'd put him right around 7 or 8 for dynasty right now.
to be fair, for some reason only the jets can explain, they elected to use revis on holt for a good part of the first half. as for your list: i own vincent jackson, msw, boldin and colston. after the last 2 games, i am using pen to write in msw as the every week starter, with benchings coming from the other 3.ft_ball_fan said:
eagles fan. i don't know who i would take if the desean owner offered me him for msw. i doubt he'd do that deal. but desean has a couple of things going for him now that msw doesn't:1) donovan is a threat to throw it 50 times in a given week.2) his speed allows him to take a 3-yard pass and go 50. 3) he returns punts and can take it the distance at any point.
First off, MSW put up a big fat goose egg against Revis. His TD came when Lito was in coverage.Second off, I don't play PPR. Here's my list:FitzgeraldAndreCalvinVJaxRoddyWayneColstonRandyDeseanSmiffThat's 10 slam-dunks. After that, you've got Sidney and Miles (who are comparable in terms of age and current production, although I think Rice at the least looks better on the field). In addition, there's Welker (who I'm always tempted to put into the slam dunk category, but can't quite put him that high because his value is almost all situation and not talent), Harvin, Crabtree, Ochocinco, Jennings, and Marshall, any one of which I would be very tempted to take over MSW. If you put MSW in the middle of all of those guys, that puts him at WR15. If you put him above them all, he's WR11. If you put him below them all, he's WR19.The thing about MSW, and I know I've already said it, but I just don't feel like he's an elite talent who can be counted on regardless of coverage. Right now, he's producing great- in large part because MJD is ensuring he's never forced to face tough coverages. Sure, he might play alongside MJD for his entire career, so it might be a moot point, but he's just not a talent on the same level as a lot of these other guys. He's very, very good, but I have a hard time putting a guy too high unless he's an actual elite talent (or, at the very least, an elite situation like Wayne). Rate too heavily on production and not heavily enough on talent and you wind up with a roster full of Matt Fortes and Steve Slatons.ft_ball_fan said:
Well, Sigmund Bloom agree with you, but I still don't get this "elite domination" test.I read some of your posts in the dynasty thread and it seems like you place higher value on WRs that can produce regardless of the situation. And yet you listed a few WRs such as Colston, Welker, Wayne, Jennings - WRs that I think unquestionably derive value from their situation. Was Welker anything special before he went to NE and played with Tom Brady? To my recollection he was just a special teams ace and decent slot receiver. And here you have MSW playing with David Garrard on JAX - which I think is a pretty bad situation - and he's producing at an elite level. I'm not sure Colston, Welker, Wayne, or Jennings would produce like MSW has if you put them on that team with that QB. Do you disagree with those assessments?I'm just wondering if a large part of your/Bloom's "elite domination" WR test is really a measure of the QB throwing him the ball. It can't be coincidence that the WRs you're listing all have much, much better QBs than MSW's.For me, the only concern with MSW is the injury history. I can't feel confident about his knees holding up until he plays without incident through about mid-2010. That's the only reason why I'd take someone like Jennings or Desean Jackson over him.SSOG said:
I think MSW earned the start over Colston for me against the Pats on Monday night. Who is going to cover MSW this week from the 9ers? How are they pass d-wise?
For the record, I'm significantly higher on MSW than Bloom is.I do value WRs who produce regardless of situation, but there are a few rare exceptions where the situation is so good and so stable that it'd be silly not to consider it. Indy is one of those situations. Yes, Wayne is a lesser talent than the guys ranked right around him, and his value is wholly a function of his circumstances... but at this point, it's clear that those circumstances aren't changing within the next 4 years (they certainly haven't changed over the past 10 years), so it'd be silly to ignore his situation like I do everyone else's. The reason I ignore everyone else's situation to such a large extent is because situation is very transitory. Wayne's clearly isn't, so he gets held to a different standard. Welker's in a very similar situation- he's not an elite talent, but his situation is so stable and so elite that I'm perpetually tempted to move him up in the rankings. Right now I have him in the 10-15 range, which is as high as I'm comfortable putting him strictly on situation. With that said, Welker's talent is frequently underrated- he did very well in Miami. I was a Welker fan for years before he went to New England, and if pressed I could even produce posts on this board from 2005-2006 to that very effect.Mike Sims-Walker's situation right now is FANTASTIC. He's got a competent NFL QB in David Garrard, who is criminally underrated by fantasy football players. He's on pace for his second straight 3600+ yard season, and he's a steady reliable NFL QB who keeps drives alive and knows how to get the ball to his playmakers. The best part about MSW's situation, though, is that there aren't any other good WRs in town. Holt is a husk, and Thomas is a rookie. Sims-Walker is the only strong option in the passing game. Heck, the receiving corps is so bad that MARCEDES LEWIS is probably the #2 option! There are literally only two people in Jacksonville with a receiving TD right now. Best of all, unlike most other go-to WRs with no credible #2 receiving option, defenses simply can't key in on Sims-Walker because Jones-Drew is too good. Sims-Walker is getting the "first option" treatment from a quality NFL QB, but he doesn't get the "first option" treatment from opposing defenses. This is not a bad situation by any means.What I'm looking for in a true upper-echelon WR is the ability to demand targets regardless of what coverage he's facing. Sims-Walker isn't to that point, and I question whether he can make that leap from "very good" to "dominant". If I'm right and he can't make that leap, then he's going to be a phenomenal WR2 for the rest of his career, which makes him a very valuable dynasty asset... but it's not good enough for me to give him the elite talent treatment.And, to answer your question, I don't account for the QB throwing the ball when I'm talking talent, but I most certainly do account for the QB throwing the ball when I'm talking about dynasty rankings. Why shouldn't I? Stud QBs are stud QBs, and they have a history of making their WRs play over their heads. You don't think I should take into consideration the fact that Welker will be catching passes from Brady for the next 5+ years, or that Colston will be catching passes from Brees for the next 8 years? If Jacksonville's QB was Peyton Manning or Drew Brees, I would be much more willing to overlook the lack of true top-end talent and put Sims-Walker in my dynasty top 10, anyway.
I've caught 4 Jacksonville games so far this year. It's hard to tell coverages from TV angles, but from what I've seen, Sims-Walker commands far fewer double teams than a comparable "only option in town" kind of guy should be commanding. Tennessee is the only team I've seen try the "load up on Sims-Walker and force Jacksonville to find another way to beat us" tactic that the best WRs routinely face.Sims-Walker isn't an elite athletic specimen. He's 6'2"/197, so he's not as big as most guys. He ran a 4.35 at the combine when he was at less than 100%, which would be phenomenal if it translated to his game speed, but he doesn't play like a real burner in the mold of a Vincent or Desean Jackson.
NFL.com has MSW listed at 6'2", but 214 lbs. That's pretty good size for a WR, especially for one with 4.35 speed.He compares pretty favorably (size wize) to the guys who you said were slam dunks ahead of him. The only guys he is significantly shorter than are Calvin and V Jackson. Those are also the only 2 that he is significantly lighter than. I'd argue that those 2 are "freaks" in that most WRs probably wouldn't be as successful if they got that big and heavy. MSW seems to be big enough to fight off some of the physical types of coverage, and fast enough (and runs good routes) to be able to out-run may guys. I definitely wouldn't put him ahead of Fitz, AJ, Calvin, Wayne, or Moss, but I'd put him in the same "tier" as many of these other guys.
jennings?
First Calvin, now Sims-Walker.Rotoworld thinks it's a non issue but CBS says he's questionable.My only other receiver after Driver and Breaston is Nicks (start 3) and Nicks plays Thursday.I have tough decisions to make.
Let me lend a hand - MSW's is getting a LOT of value out of the fact that he (and presumably Garrard in sync with him) adjust at the LOS to the coverage he is facing. WHen he's doubled, the defense is putting a CB within 5 yards of the LOS and rolling a safety over the top to his side. When he's one-on-one (usually in nickel situations), they are giving him a cushion at the line of 8-12 yards. The biggest part of his success to date has been in Garrard knowing to throw him an 8 yard out or 10 yard curl in single coverage, or to throw him a 15-18 yard crossing pattern when he's broken free of double-coverage. His technique is good and he's underrated as a "phyiscal" talent, but much of his consistency is coming from a nice rapport with his QB at the LOS.
