Minnesota homeowner shot two teenagers dead (1 Viewer)

[Topes]

Minnesota homeowner shot two teenagers dead in cold blood in his basement 'because he feared they had a weapon'

Guy talked too much. But, still, after chilling with the bodies for a day before calling it in, my guess is he's screwed. Or the corpses are.

 

[Guest]

That guy is sick.

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Local media has a story that may link the teens to a previous burglary.

http://www.startribune.com/local/east/181119611.html

Bad things can happen when stupid runs into crazy.

 

[Novice2]

This is why criminals should always be armed. Never know when you are going to bak into a psychos house.

 

[BigJohn]

That guy is sick.

X10 :(

 

[snogger]

This one is tough..

He has been burglarized 5 or 6 times as reported by friends and neighbors..

he lives alone, hears someone breaking in while he is in the basement. he has no idea if they are kids or not.

As he sits downstairs he sees one of the people coming down the stairs and shoots him..

Then, hearing the gun shots, the girl decides to come downstairs.. WTF

So if you are the guy and you just shot one person and yet the other person starts to come down, you have no idea if they have a weapon drawn or not so you shoot first, ask questions later.

But then he does go WAY overboard by executing the girl and admits it..

He had every right to take the first shots at them .. he had no idea they were "just kids" ( hard to say that since the were 18 & 17) and for all he knew his life was in danger.

Guessing this will get plead down to Manslaughter for the boy..

The girl is the one that is the most disturbing based on his own descriptions of how he "took the kill shot" and for that one I could see the 2nd degree murder sticking.

 

[NCCommish]

Yeah the execution stuff is what gets you. I would give him a pass on shooting someone breaking into his house. But the whole putting a gun under the chin to finish them off thing should spell jail time.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

Guy is off his rocker and went way to far, but I have little sympathy for people who break into another person's home. He had every right to take the first shot. That's where it ends. After that he pretty much admitted he murdered two wounded people.

 

[tom22406]

I will only say that if anyone ever breaks into my house I will shoot first and ask questions later.Break into it over 5 times and an AK47 will be waiting.With that said he did handle this very poorly and does deserve to be punished but I believe he had every right to shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[Flying V]

What's cheaper, a stash of guns or a security system?

I get the feeling this guy wanted a break in just so he had an excuse to kill somebody.

 

[NutterButter]

I don't think shooting someone b/c she's laughing at you constitutes self defense

 

[El Floppo]

Yeah the execution stuff is what gets you.

If I've said it once...

 

[johnnycakes]

I don't think shooting someone b/c she's laughing at you constitutes self defense

He can't defend his ego?

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

What's cheaper, a stash of guns or a security system?

I get the feeling this guy wanted a break in just so he had an excuse to kill somebody.

Funny how our perspectives can be so different given that we're working with the same limited information.I get the feeling this guy lived by himself in the podunk town of Little Falls, MN because he wanted little to do with people...particularly those that invade his turf and isolation.

I feel bad for the families of those involved. Stupid kids would be alive if they weren't thieves.

 

[Flying V]

I will only say that if anyone ever breaks into my house I will shoot first and ask questions later.Break into it over 5 times and an AK47 will be waiting.With that said he did handle this very poorly and does deserve to be punished but I believe he had every right to shoot first and ask questions later.

Actually, the police only have a report for one previous break in.But maybe there are more that he didn't report because he didn't want the cops to find the other bodies.

 

[Bill Brasky]

I get the feeling this guy lived by himself in the podunk town of Little Falls, MN because he wanted little to do with people...particularly those that invade his turf and isolation.

apparently he's not that isolated, he's fairly close to the town "downtown".

 

[SWC]

kids were wrong to break in and i guess that sometimes you run in to a nutjob when you are doing a crime and you get the whacko treatment which is horrible the kids did not desreve it and he is wrong for doing it but i guess it is hard to feel bad for anyone here long story short bad situation and a bad outcome for everyone involved and on thanskgiving of all things

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

This one is tough..

Not really.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I caught just a small snippet on the news where he said something to the effect of "ending their suffering" as a reason for shooting them in the head.

This one is just ugly all around.

A) Guy probably lost his mind after the first shots that wounded the kids which led to his executing them.

B) WTF were those kids doing in his house anyway? Apparently the girl, pretty as she is, was a recovering drug addict and I believe had a prior burglary charge.

Nobody's innocent here.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I caught just a small snippet on the news where he said something to the effect of "ending their suffering" as a reason for shooting them in the head.

This one is just ugly all around.

A) Guy probably lost his mind after the first shots that wounded the kids which led to his executing them.

B) WTF were those kids doing in his house anyway? Apparently the girl, pretty as she is, was a recovering drug addict and I believe had a prior burglary charge.

Nobody's innocent here.

Old man lost it a long time before the shootings occurred

 

[NCCommish]

I caught just a small snippet on the news where he said something to the effect of "ending their suffering" as a reason for shooting them in the head.This one is just ugly all around. A) Guy probably lost his mind after the first shots that wounded the kids which led to his executing them.B) WTF were those kids doing in his house anyway? Apparently the girl, pretty as she is, was a recovering drug addict and I believe had a prior burglary charge. Nobody's innocent here.

Well let's not get to equivalent. The kids weren't armed. They were being stupid kids and yeah getting shot over it is on them. But they didn't execute anyone and getting executed isn't on them.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I caught just a small snippet on the news where he said something to the effect of "ending their suffering" as a reason for shooting them in the head.

This one is just ugly all around.

A) Guy probably lost his mind after the first shots that wounded the kids which led to his executing them.

B) WTF were those kids doing in his house anyway? Apparently the girl, pretty as she is, was a recovering drug addict and I believe had a prior burglary charge.

Nobody's innocent here.

Well let's not get to equivalent. The kids weren't armed. They were being stupid kids and yeah getting shot over it is on them. But they didn't execute anyone and getting executed isn't on them.

I'm not. Kids didn't deserve to get executed but they wouldn't have been executed if they weren't in the dude's house "uninvited".

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

 

[snogger]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

 

[NCCommish]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

Once the guy was down he had time to assess the threat. It seems the finishing shot in both cases wasn't out of fear it was out of wanting a kill based on his testimony I read.

 

[Mello]

Tough one, but this guy crossed the line. No problem with the initial shots, but you don't get to go for "a good clean finishing shot" on someone after you've already incapacitated them.

 

[snogger]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

Once the guy was down he had time to assess the threat. It seems the finishing shot in both cases wasn't out of fear it was out of wanting a kill based on his testimony I read.

I suppose, but if I'm in his shoes I'm not waiting to assess the situation and wait to see if he pulls out a weapon. I'd probably shot again and then assess...But I do agree his own words of "I wanted him dead" are going to come back to bite him the butt.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

Once the guy was down he had time to assess the threat. It seems the finishing shot in both cases wasn't out of fear it was out of wanting a kill based on his testimony I read.

I suppose, but if I'm in his shoes I'm not waiting to assess the situation and wait to see if he pulls out a weapon. I'd probably shot again and then assess...But I do agree his own words of "I wanted him dead" are going to come back to bite him the butt.

Do you go for "several shots at point blank range" when they're already down?

 

[Joe Summer]

With that said he did handle this very poorly

 

[snogger]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

Once the guy was down he had time to assess the threat. It seems the finishing shot in both cases wasn't out of fear it was out of wanting a kill based on his testimony I read.

I suppose, but if I'm in his shoes I'm not waiting to assess the situation and wait to see if he pulls out a weapon. I'd probably shot again and then assess...But I do agree his own words of "I wanted him dead" are going to come back to bite him the butt.

Do you go for "several shots at point blank range" when they're already down?

Hard to say until you are in that spot. Guessing here, but after the first shot your adrenaline would running so high, thinking isn't high on the things you'd be doing.

It is difficult for me to answer as I've never fired anything other then a BB Gun.. But I'd imagine I'd probably panic and shot until I was out of bullets.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

Once the guy was down he had time to assess the threat. It seems the finishing shot in both cases wasn't out of fear it was out of wanting a kill based on his testimony I read.

I suppose, but if I'm in his shoes I'm not waiting to assess the situation and wait to see if he pulls out a weapon. I'd probably shot again and then assess...But I do agree his own words of "I wanted him dead" are going to come back to bite him the butt.

Do you go for "several shots at point blank range" when they're already down?

Hard to say until you are in that spot. Guessing here, but after the first shot your adrenaline would running so high, thinking isn't high on the things you'd be doing.

It is difficult for me to answer as I've never fired anything other then a BB Gun.. But I'd imagine I'd probably panic and shot until I was out of bullets.

Then it's probably a good idea for you to not ever own a gun.

 

[mad sweeney]

Yeah the execution stuff is what gets you. I would give him a pass on shooting someone breaking into his house. But the whole putting a gun under the chin to finish them off thing should spell jail time.

So does the changing guns and shooting an already felled intruder. He did two executions, both shots to the head, that should be two life terms if not the death penalty.

 

[NCCommish]

Yeah the execution stuff is what gets you. I would give him a pass on shooting someone breaking into his house. But the whole putting a gun under the chin to finish them off thing should spell jail time.

So does the changing guns and shooting an already felled intruder. He did two executions, both shots to the head, that should be two life terms if not the death penalty.

Yeah it is pretty horrific all the way around. At least he was polite enough not to bother the police on their Thanksgiving.

 

[mad sweeney]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.

This is what he did to the boy. Just as bad as executing the girl.

 

[mad sweeney]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

Once the guy was down he had time to assess the threat. It seems the finishing shot in both cases wasn't out of fear it was out of wanting a kill based on his testimony I read.

I suppose, but if I'm in his shoes I'm not waiting to assess the situation and wait to see if he pulls out a weapon. I'd probably shot again and then assess...But I do agree his own words of "I wanted him dead" are going to come back to bite him the butt.

Do you go for "several shots at point blank range" when they're already down?

Hard to say until you are in that spot. Guessing here, but after the first shot your adrenaline would running so high, thinking isn't high on the things you'd be doing.

It is difficult for me to answer as I've never fired anything other then a BB Gun.. But I'd imagine I'd probably panic and shot until I was out of bullets.

There's a difference between what you described and what he did. I wouldn't have a problem with someone doing what you said and I have a hard time believing I'd do it any different way. But he also said he wanted the kid dead. Not to try and turn this around (I don't remember where everyone in this thread fell on the Martin case), but the bolded reason is exactly why i felt it was acceptable self defense for Trayvon to not only attack Zimmerman, but to keep pounding the guy until he was unconscious.

edited to actually bold what I was talking about

 

[mad sweeney]

Yeah the execution stuff is what gets you. I would give him a pass on shooting someone breaking into his house. But the whole putting a gun under the chin to finish them off thing should spell jail time.

So does the changing guns and shooting an already felled intruder. He did two executions, both shots to the head, that should be two life terms if not the death penalty.

Yeah it is pretty horrific all the way around. At least he was polite enough not to bother the police on their Thanksgiving.

Maybe he should only get a life sentence for the boy and death for the girl. That ought to ease his mind and reflect on his holiday generosity.

 

[snogger]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.

This is what he did to the boy. Just as bad as executing the girl.

here are some of the reports I've read...from one site:

He said he grabbed his Ruger Mini 14 rifle and fired two shots at Brady as the youth descended the stairs into the basement. Smith told authorities he fired another round at Brady after he fell to the floor.

No mention there of how long between the time the guy hit the floor and the shot to the face.and to your point:

Smith told authorities that he was in his basement last Thursday when he heard a window break upstairs. When he saw Brady on the basement stairwell, he fired at the teenager then shot him again in the face after he fell down.

Again, nothing there that speaks of how long between the first shot and the shot to the face.If he shot, the guy hit the floor and he shot right away then self-defense is easily arguable..

If it was first shot, guy hits the floor, he walks over and then shoots him in the face, then I agree it was an execution.

It's his comment of "I want him dead" that is going to be the most damning in court.

 

[gandalas]

kids were wrong to break in and i guess that sometimes you run in to a nutjob when you are doing a crime and you get the whacko treatment which is horrible the kids did not desreve it and he is wrong for doing it but i guess it is hard to feel bad for anyone here long story short bad situation and a bad outcome for everyone involved and on thanskgiving of all things

Take it to the bank, brohan?

 

[Ursa M]

Yeah the execution stuff is what gets you. I would give him a pass on shooting someone breaking into his house. But the whole putting a gun under the chin to finish them off thing should spell jail time.

So does the changing guns and shooting an already felled intruder. He did two executions, both shots to the head, that should be two life terms if not the death penalty.

Yeah it is pretty horrific all the way around. At least he was polite enough not to bother the police on their Thanksgiving.

Maybe he should only get a life sentence for the boy and death for the girl. That ought to ease his mind and reflect on his holiday generosity.

He's not getting the death penalty. This is Minnesota and we don't have the death penalty.

 

[snogger]

Schaeffel's sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Kifer had stolen prescription drugs from her home before.

I've wondered about that since the first report.. and not the laughing part.. The fact he shot the guy a few times, dragged his body to a different spot and sat back down and THEN she came down the steps.She had to be on something as that is the only explanation I can come up with that you would hear shots and still decide.. hmmm, I'm going to go downstairs to see what the noise was.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.

This is what he did to the boy. Just as bad as executing the girl.

here are some of the reports I've read...from one site:

He said he grabbed his Ruger Mini 14 rifle and fired two shots at Brady as the youth descended the stairs into the basement. Smith told authorities he fired another round at Brady after he fell to the floor.

No mention there of how long between the time the guy hit the floor and the shot to the face.and to your point:

Smith told authorities that he was in his basement last Thursday when he heard a window break upstairs. When he saw Brady on the basement stairwell, he fired at the teenager then shot him again in the face after he fell down.

Again, nothing there that speaks of how long between the first shot and the shot to the face.If he shot, the guy hit the floor and he shot right away then self-defense is easily arguable..

If it was first shot, guy hits the floor, he walks over and then shoots him in the face, then I agree it was an execution.

It's his comment of "I want him dead" that is going to be the most damning in court.

A Minnesota homeowner who shot two unarmed teenagers in the midst of an apparent Thanksgiving Day break-in told authorities he feared they had a weapon, but acknowledged firing "more shots than I needed to" and appeared to take pride in "a good clean finishing shot" for one teen, according to investigators.

That's not going to help either.http://brainerddispatch.com/news/2012-11-26/little-falls-shooting-man-says-he-fired-more-shots-i-needed

 

[Abraham]

So he shoots the guy, what, half a dozen times? And the girl still goes in to the basement to look for her friend?

That doesn't make sense. Badly written horror movies don't even send the teenage girl alone in to the basement to "investigate" the gunshots.

 

[snogger]

So he shoots the guy, what, half a dozen times? And the girl still goes in to the basement to look for her friend? That doesn't make sense. Badly written horror movies don't even send the teenage girl alone in to the basement to "investigate" the gunshots.

Exactly.. Of all the strange things that keep coming out about this, that fact was mentioned on day one and continues to baffle me.. Only reason I can come up with is drugs and/or drinking

 

[Bill Brasky]

the whole thing is bizarre.

the most damning thing, besides everything he said in his statements and not calling police for a day, is that his gun jams after the first shot on the girl so he gets another one and goes for the "clean finishing shot" under the chin. I don't know how you defend that as self defense.

 

[loser]

IIRC most self-defense laws require that the defense ends when the threat is over. No problem with him shooting them, but he's probably screwed for taking Johnny Caspar's advice.

When it comes to the man.. he shot him, I'm guessing here, in the leg which caused him to fall down the stairs and then shot him in the chest.. He has no idea if the leg shot stopped the threat or not and therefore it could be argued that he still felt threatened and therefore self defense.

The woman kill shot is where I agree he went to far and will do time for..

Once the guy was down he had time to assess the threat. It seems the finishing shot in both cases wasn't out of fear it was out of wanting a kill based on his testimony I read.

I suppose, but if I'm in his shoes I'm not waiting to assess the situation and wait to see if he pulls out a weapon. I'd probably shot again and then assess...But I do agree his own words of "I wanted him dead" are going to come back to bite him the butt.

Do you go for "several shots at point blank range" when they're already down?

Hard to say until you are in that spot. Guessing here, but after the first shot your adrenaline would running so high, thinking isn't high on the things you'd be doing.

It is difficult for me to answer as I've never fired anything other then a BB Gun.. But I'd imagine I'd probably panic and shot until I was out of bullets.

This is totally me in Call of Duty.

 

[money.never.sleeps]

I don't think shooting someone b/c she's laughing at you constitutes self defense

Im sure she was giggling from the tickle bullitts penetrating her body repeatedly

 

[Zow]

I know exactly the area his house is located and I'm shocked he's had 5 or 6 passersby, let alone that many break-ins.

 

[Christo]

Tough one, but this guy crossed the line. No problem with the initial shots, but you don't get to go for "a good clean finishing shot" on someone after you've already incapacitated them.

It depends.

 

[iamsmilin]

This one is tough..

He has been burglarized 5 or 6 times as reported by friends and neighbors..

he lives alone, hears someone breaking in while he is in the basement. he has no idea if they are kids or not.

As he sits downstairs he sees one of the people coming down the stairs and shoots him..

Then, hearing the gun shots, the girl decides to come downstairs.. WTF

So if you are the guy and you just shot one person and yet the other person starts to come down, you have no idea if they have a weapon drawn or not so you shoot first, ask questions later.

But then he does go WAY overboard by executing the girl and admits it..

He had every right to take the first shots at them .. he had no idea they were "just kids" ( hard to say that since the were 18 & 17) and for all he knew his life was in danger.

Guessing this will get plead down to Manslaughter for the boy..

The girl is the one that is the most disturbing based on his own descriptions of how he "took the kill shot" and for that one I could see the 2nd degree murder sticking.

Pretty much summarizes my thoughts. I'll only add that the kids are attractive, white, and look middle class, so he may get more time.

 

[mr roboto]

This one is tough..

He has been burglarized 5 or 6 times as reported by friends and neighbors..

he lives alone, hears someone breaking in while he is in the basement. he has no idea if they are kids or not.

As he sits downstairs he sees one of the people coming down the stairs and shoots him..

Then, hearing the gun shots, the girl decides to come downstairs.. WTF

So if you are the guy and you just shot one person and yet the other person starts to come down, you have no idea if they have a weapon drawn or not so you shoot first, ask questions later.

But then he does go WAY overboard by executing the girl and admits it..

He had every right to take the first shots at them .. he had no idea they were "just kids" ( hard to say that since the were 18 & 17) and for all he knew his life was in danger.

Guessing this will get plead down to Manslaughter for the boy..

The girl is the one that is the most disturbing based on his own descriptions of how he "took the kill shot" and for that one I could see the 2nd degree murder sticking.

Pretty much summarizes my thoughts. I'll only add that the kids are attractive, white, and look middle class, so he may get more time.

You just described about everyone in Minnesota.