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Minor vs Brown (1 Viewer)

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Eddie George left town and now the #2 guy (Chris Brown) is going to come in and do gangbusters (according to some)--even with a veteran brought in to potentially take touches away.Ricky Williams retires and now the #2 guy (Travis Minor) is going to come in and bomb (according to some)--even though another RB has not been brought in (at least for now).The Titans had a 3.3 ypc, 1623 rushing yards, and 11 rushing TD in 2003.The Titans had a 3.8 ypc, 1952 rushing yards, and 16 rushing TD in 2002.That averages out to 3.6 ypc, 1788 rushing yards, and 13.5 TD.The Dolphins had a 3.7 ypc and 14 rushing TD in 2003.The Dolphins had a 4.7 ypc and 24 rushing TD in 2002.That averages out to 4.2 ypc, 2160 rushing yards, and 18 rushing TD.Just thinking out loud here, but doesn't this seem odd that the unproven guy on the team with BETTER stats is the one being dubbed incapable, yet the unproven guy from the team with LOWER stats is the one getting hyped?

 

tommyGunZ

Footballguy
No difference, IMO.Unless the Phins make a trade, Antwain Smith is far better and more likely to steal carries from Brown than anyone the Phins can bring in.I actually think there's a chance Minor will grab the job and run with it. His size seems to be the only question mark. He should know the playbook in and out by now.

 

waylander

Footballguy
I guess the big difference of the two, is Minor stats are probably lowering the stats mixed in with Ricky Williams at the prime in his career, while Chris Brown was actually improving the stats, while sharing carrys with Eddie George in the twilight of his career.The other, is Chris Browns size, college career, and probably the "flashes" people have seen out of him. It's all really speculation, but thats fantasy sports in a nutshell.

 

JAA

Footballguy
Eddie George left town and now the #2 guy (Chris Brown) is going to come in and do gangbusters (according to some)--even with a veteran brought in to potentially take touches away.Ricky Williams retires and now the #2 guy (Travis Minor) is going to come in and bomb (according to some)--even though another RB has not been brought in (at least for now).The Titans had a 3.3 ypc, 1623 rushing yards, and 11 rushing TD in 2003.The Titans had a 3.8 ypc, 1952 rushing yards, and 16 rushing TD in 2002.That averages out to 3.6 ypc, 1788 rushing yards, and 13.5 TD.The Dolphins had a 3.7 ypc and 14 rushing TD in 2003.The Dolphins had a 4.7 ypc and 24 rushing TD in 2002.That averages out to 4.2 ypc, 2160 rushing yards, and 18 rushing TD.Just thinking out loud here, but doesn't this seem odd that the unproven guy on the team with BETTER stats is the one being dubbed incapable, yet the unproven guy from the team with LOWER stats is the one getting hyped?
Travis Minor was not drafted to be Ricky's replacement.
 

babydemon90

Footballguy
I would say QB situation in TEN should prevent defenses from stacking the line as much as they will in Miami. However, I am not as down on Minor as most are....I don't think his size is as big an issue as its being made out to be.

 

waylander

Footballguy
Minor ypc in Miami: 4.5 ypcWilliams ypc in Miami: 4.1 ypcBrown ypc in Tennessee: 3.9 ypc
Puts a different spin on it then. I guess I will have to say, I honestly don't know but I am with the majority and think Chris Brown will do well.
 

H.K.

Footballguy
Eddie George left town and now the #2 guy (Chris Brown) is going to come in and do gangbusters (according to some)--even with a veteran brought in to potentially take touches away.Ricky Williams retires and now the #2 guy (Travis Minor) is going to come in and bomb (according to some)--even though another RB has not been brought in (at least for now).The Titans had a 3.3 ypc, 1623 rushing yards, and 11 rushing TD in 2003.The Titans had a 3.8 ypc, 1952 rushing yards, and 16 rushing TD in 2002.That averages out to 3.6 ypc, 1788 rushing yards, and 13.5 TD.The Dolphins had a 3.7 ypc and 14 rushing TD in 2003.The Dolphins had a 4.7 ypc and 24 rushing TD in 2002.That averages out to 4.2 ypc, 2160 rushing yards, and 18 rushing TD.Just thinking out loud here, but doesn't this seem odd that the unproven guy on the team with BETTER stats is the one being dubbed incapable, yet the unproven guy from the team with LOWER stats is the one getting hyped?
Anarchy, Ricky Williams has been much better than Eddie George in 2002 & 2003, which is a big reason the YPC in Miami is better, so the numbers do not tell the whole story the way you present them.I do completely get the point that you are trying to make, and think it has some merit. However, if you could pick Brown or Minor, who would you take?
 

Couch Potato

Footballguy
Chris Brown is talented, Travis Minor is not. The End
Simplistic, uninformed statement. Minor has as much ability as Brown, maybe more.Yudkin is right. The only difference was perceived opportunity, with Williams (until his retirement) entrenched while with George there was a lot of speculation as to his leaving. Now the opportunity is, at least for now, equal.In addition, for those who consider draft status, Minor was the 85th overall pick in his draft class (3rd round) while Brown was the 93rd overall pick in his class (3rd round). Essentially no difference there.I'm guessing you were also a naysayer concerning Dom Davis, Stephen Davis, Terrell Davis, Priest Holmes, etc. before they proved their worth.To write off players before they have proven they can't do it is a great way to miss out on value players. Just run away and let someone else have them.
 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Anarchy, Ricky Williams has been much better than Eddie George in 2002 & 2003, which is a big reason the YPC in Miami is better, so the numbers do not tell the whole story the way you present them.I do completely get the point that you are trying to make, and think it has some merit. However, if you could pick Brown or Minor, who would you take?
I'm not trying to say Minor will light the world on fire, but he did have a ypc that was higher than RW's was in the same system--just like Brown did in Tennessee.You asked me would I take Brown over Minor . . . I would and I wouldn't. If the choice was Brown in the 4th or Minor in the 10th, I'd take Minor.I'm not looking to be the poster boy for the Travis Minor Fan Club, but I have been pretty outspoken in supporting Brown and pretty outspoken about bashing Minor, but after reviewing their situations I think that my love for one and distain for the other may not be fully warrented.
 

JAA

Footballguy
I'm guessing you were also a naysayer concerning Dom Davis, Stephen Davis, Terrell Davis, Priest Holmes, etc. before they proved their worth.
Yes with respect to DD, TD, and Priest. I was money on SDavis and a bunch of other RBs. Whats your point? That I may be wrong?Regardless of draft selection, the intent of drafting Brown was as George's replacement. Minor was drafted to backup RW.JAA
 

Doug B

Footballguy
I'm not trying to say Minor will light the world on fire, but he did have a ypc that was higher than RW's was in the same system--just like Brown did in Tennessee.
Minor got a lot of third-down carries, though.YPC only matters to me in comparing long-haul starters at RB (or comparing an individual RB's stats between seasons). Otherwise, I don't feel the stat tells all that much.Here's something to think about -- not that it could be proven, but I feel that Ricky Williams (2002 version) could have put up 4+ YPC in Tennessee either in 2002 or 2003. You OP implies that something was wrong with the Titans' offense as a whole in 2002-3, when the problem was really with Eddie George's diminishing abilities.
 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Regardless of draft selection, the intent of drafting Brown was as George's replacement. Minor was drafted to backup RW.
For starters, Minor was a Dolphin the year before Williams was, so to say that he was drafted to backup Williams clearly can't be the case.In terms of Brown being hand selected to "replace" George, I'm not sure I remember it that way. I think Tennessee wanted another back on the roster for depth, as a backup, and if things MIGHT work out they COULD have someone to give more work to. I don't think that the Titans thought they would have to ever cut George and that he'd stick around this year and next and then they would evaluate what to do. They could have (and still could) take a RB in 2005 or 2006.So overall, I am not so sure that Tennessee ever sat down before the draft and said "here's George's replacement."
 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
Here's something to think about -- not that it could be proven, but I feel that Ricky Williams (2002 version) could have put up 4+ YPC in Tennessee either in 2002 or 2003. You OP implies that something was wrong with the Titans' offense as a whole in 2002-3, when the problem was really with Eddie George's diminishing abilities.
CLEARLY Williams would have outperformed George in Tennessee, that's not the issue (and I'm not looking to get into a bru-ha-ha over this with anyone).But the same arguments FOR Brown also apply to Minor, and the same arguments AGAINST Minor also apply to Brown.But you touched upon the one thing that is the common denomenator threw this whole thing.George's production was horrible. Common thought: It will be easy for Brown to do better than George. Cause and effect relationship: Brown's stock goes way up.Williams production in 2002 was phenomenal. Common thought: There's NO WAY Minor could put up those numbers. Cause and effect relationship: Minor's stock still not worth much.But if you look at the numbers behind each example, Brown only has to beat George's 3.3 ypc. Piece of cake. Let's give him 0.5 more. That will get him a 3.8 ypc. But his stock is still high.Minor could NEVER best Williams 4.8 ypc from 2002 (ignoring altogether the 3.5 ypc he had in 2003). So let's DEDUCT 0.5 from Willimas number and that gives Minor a 4.3 ypc. But his stock isn't rising as much.But in this example, Minor still has a 4.3 ypc compared to Brown's 3.8!!!So Brown would have to do WAY better than George while Minor would have to do WAY worse (compared to RW's 2002 season) for the two to BE EQUAL in their ypc numbers.Again, I'm not saying either Brown or Minor will be the next Priest Holmes, but there are a lot of parallels in this situation and in some columns Minor may actual have an advantage.
 

Doug B

Footballguy
But in this example, Minor still has a 4.3 ypc compared to Brown's 3.8!!!So Brown would have to do WAY better than George while Minor would have to do WAY worse (compared to RW's 2002 season) for the two to BE EQUAL in their ypc numbers.
Yes, but what do YPC numbers really tell us about fantasy scoring potential in 2004? IMHO, not a whole lot.They don't take into account touches per game, situational use/disuse, goal-line use, quality of offensive lines, etc. There's a lot more to consider here than just potential YPC.
 

David Yudkin

Footballguy
But in this example, Minor still has a 4.3 ypc compared to Brown's 3.8!!!So Brown would have to do WAY better than George while Minor would have to do WAY worse (compared to RW's 2002 season) for the two to BE EQUAL in their ypc numbers.
Yes, but what do YPC numbers really tell us about fantasy scoring potential in 2004? IMHO, not a whole lot.They don't take into account touches per game, situational use/disuse, goal-line use, quality of offensive lines, etc. There's a lot more to consider here than just potential YPC.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with anyone, but at this point we know exactly the same about Brown and Minor and how they will be used and how well they will perfrom: VERY LITTLE.That's the thing. WE DON'T KNOW MUCH AT ALL. WE THINK WE KNOW, but we don't really have a clue.I fully understand that ypc is not the only metric to consider, and we're comparing two different offenses.But I would think that if Travis Minor was the guy running the ball instead of Eddie George, he too would have had a 4.0 ypc.Was the Titan's rushing game poor BECAUSE of Eddie George or were they just poor to begin with? Was the Dolphins rushing game more productive BECAUSE of Ricky Williams or was he just an integral part of the system?These questions begin to get answered and more in the few weeks and months ahead.
 

Gr00vus

Footballguy
I think there are some other things to consider.1) McNair vs. Fiedler/Feely - having the better qb around will make things easier for the Titan's running back.2) Offensive line - I believe the Titans have a much better line than Miami3) The Dolphin's running back situation isn't settled yet, they could still bring in somone to compete with Minor. We know who Brown has to deal with in Tennesse. You could still cast this as a point against Brown though since I doubt Minor will face tougher competition than Antowain.I think Brown wins on 2 of the three points above, and they're not insignificant ones.So without the benefit of preseason games, If we were to assume equal talent levels (that's an entirely different debate, my feeling is Brown is more talented) I can understand people liking Brown's situation more than Minor's.If things stay as they are, I doubt Minor will be available in round 10. I'd expect him to move up to round six or seven, and at that range he might be a worthwhile pick. Right now, I like Brown as a 4th round pick, maybe late round 3, but not sooner.

 

King Titan

Footballguy
I have a clue and after seeing Brown in person at The Baptist Sports Complex in Tennessee I can tell you the guy is 1300 yards and 12 TD's waiting to happen. Throw in 500 rec yards and a few scores through the air. If the Titans were not confident in his ability they would have drafted a RB this in the 2nd 3rd round area. They didn't and he WILL be a fantasy stud! Case closed!

 

jurb26

Footballguy
Well I would have to say that the 1st difference between the 2 players is the percieved tallent. Brown seems to have more ability of the 2. Fact of the matter is, Minor has been in the league for 3 years now and hasn't once showed flashes of being a go-to every down back. Brown in his short 1 season has in his few games with decent work and the impressive playoff games vs. top notch Ds in Balt and NE.Something can also be said for the fact that even with Minor already on the roster Mia went out and gave up a decent amout to get what they saw as a stud RB in Williams. Tenn had a once stud RB and felt the need to let him go even at a modest price in favor of Brown. Brown was also drafted just last year and George is released the following year, strange, I think not. This following a good playoff run for Brown and a lack luster season for George. Thus even if it is just allusion, Brown appears to be a planed replacement Monor is cetainly not. Plus, Mia did not choose to have Ricky retire and place Minor in the role he finds himslef in, where as if Brwon is to start, this will have been by Tenn's choice. Huge difference here IMO.On top of this I think you are getting too caught up in the fact that yes Minor would have decent numbers. He played situationally on 3rd downs most often. It was easier to expect larger gains in passing downs as Ds would be playing the pass. Not to mention that Ds focus would be on a Ricky style running game (the guy was close to 80% of Mia's O). The change of pace and difference alone would catch the D off guard at least a little. I think Minor's situation is more related to that of Amos in Pitt. than that of Brown's in Tenn. Minor like Amos was able to look better than he really was when Ds were not planed around stoping him and looked at stopping Bettis and Ricky. Of course this could be said of Brown as well, but I don't think it is of the same magnitude. For one Ricky was and effective runner where as Eddie was not. Teams attempt to stop McNair in Tenn and before now in Mia the tried to stop Ricky. I think yo can see the difference.One finally point. Mia is still looking for ways to avoid having Minor as the main RB and Tenn is not looking for any more help. If that doesn't strick a key, I don't know what will.

 
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Marc Levin

Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
You asked me would I take Brown over Minor . . . I would and I wouldn't. If the choice was Brown in the 4th or Minor in the 10th, I'd take Minor..
:thumbup: Not apples to apples currently - but in three weeks when teams see that Miami is serious about getting Minor 300-ish carries and 40+ catches he will have leapt to just under the Chris Brown range in most drafts.Unless the team brings a name in (that name being James Stewart), I think the two guys they are currently looking at don;t affect Minor in the same way - Kirby has no vision between the tackles, but he may be abetter receiver than Minor - Mack woudl steal Minor's G/L touches and short yardage work, but Minor would remain the main back.Anyone drafting right now shoud target Minor in the latter part of their draft - 7th-10th round of any 12-team draft is a low cost to pay for a likely starting RB. Only a trade for a young, talented back (or an injury) would divert Minor from taking the bulk of Miami's carries this year. I also expect Rob Konrad to get a buttload more work carrying the ball, esp. if Minor's size becomes an issue around the G/L.
 

CowboyFan

Footballguy
Minor was drafted to backup RW.JAA
Besides those that have already pointed out that Minor was drafted the year before Ricky went to Miami, I seriously doubt any player is drafted specifically to be a back-up. Teams obviously draft players for depth, but I think you would want guys that could start on their own rite, or even develop into a better player.Honestly, Minor had been an afterthough until Rasta's move last weekend, but he deserves serious consideration as an RB2 if no other vets are brought in, or even if one is brought in & Minor wins the starting role.
 

Marc Levin

Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Fact of the matter is, Minor has been in the league for 3 years now and hasn't once showed flashes of being a go-to every down back.
That's not entirely fair - in his rookie year, he was behind Lamar Smith, who had a great season. And then Ricky was acquired. I saw flashes of good ability from him last year when Ricky was struggling. But, that may indicate a better change of pace back than a 3-down guy. I think it is too early in his career to say he doesn't have "it" just b/c he doesn't have the workhorse back style that the Dolphins seem to want to employ. he will be a runner like Tiki - give him the ball on 1st and 2nd and hope, throw it to a WR if he gets nowhere (like Ricky did last year), leave him in there if he gets near the 1st down marker b/c he is a speedy pass catcher, and maybe pull him in short yardage situation if his size hinders him.I am not saying he is the second coming - or even a sure-fire FF starter at RB2 - but he is a viable FF starter at the RB2 spot - with the potential in both talent and opportunity to create good fantasy production.If you have him as an RB3 in a flex league, I think you are goign to do better than if you put a weekly WR3 in that spot, and I also like him as a backup to your starting RBs over the starters' actual backup
 

jurb26

Footballguy
Marc, I'm not saying he can't/won't provide value this year. I think that any RB outside of Clev given the starting role "can" produce FF value. Only trying to show why Brown is percieved as having more value, or better yet being able to achieve more FF production. I don't think Minor lacks tallent, simply that Brown possesses more. Of course that is up to debate though.

 

JAA

Footballguy
Regardless of draft selection, the intent of drafting Brown was as George's replacement. Minor was drafted to backup RW.
For starters, Minor was a Dolphin the year before Williams was, so to say that he was drafted to backup Williams clearly can't be the case.In terms of Brown being hand selected to "replace" George, I'm not sure I remember it that way. I think Tennessee wanted another back on the roster for depth, as a backup, and if things MIGHT work out they COULD have someone to give more work to. I don't think that the Titans thought they would have to ever cut George and that he'd stick around this year and next and then they would evaluate what to do. They could have (and still could) take a RB in 2005 or 2006.So overall, I am not so sure that Tennessee ever sat down before the draft and said "here's George's replacement."
Why is Tenn not calling 15 teams in the league about their RB like the Dolphins are?Both MIA and TEN lost their starting RB from last season. One team is scrambling, one team signed a vet who hasnt passed his team conditioning test for 3 years.JAA
 

JAA

Footballguy
By the way David, let me add one more thing: Sweet Topic for discussion!

:notwantingtosounddefensive:

JAA

 

Marc Levin

Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Marc, I'm not saying he can't/won't provide value this year. I think that any RB outside of Clev given the starting role "can" produce FF value. Only trying to show why Brown is percieved as having more value, or better yet being able to achieve more FF production. I don't think Minor lacks tallent, simply that Brown possesses more. Of course that is up to debate though.
True dat. I was responding to "hasn't once showed flashes . . "He hasn't had the opp to show whether he can take 275-325 carries and produce. I also agree that Brown obviously has 3-down back talent while Minor has not demonstrated that, even in his college career.I watched a lot of Chris Brown as I weatched a lot of BUffalo games. He's got "it" to be the Titans' 3-down back. I am unsure what A Smith is there for except depth and reliefe during the game. Brown is talented enough to be the man for the 320 carries the Titans will expect from him.I think Minor will need more relief from Konrad or some other back, but he is a home-run hitting back who has good vision between the tackles and a knack for finding the seam. He is def. undersized, so his carry-load past 20 carries in a game is a concern, but he is a guy who I expect will be bale to do a lot of damage (and put up nice FF numbers) if he averages 20-22 touches (touches, not carries) a game.
 

CowboyFan

Footballguy
Why is Tenn not calling 15 teams in the league about their RB like the Dolphins are?Both MIA and TEN lost their starting RB from last season. One team is scrambling, one team signed a vet who hasnt passed his team conditioning test for 3 years.JAA
Bad comparison.Is it hard to blame the fins for scrambling the way this went down? Minor has played well in spot duty, but any team is going to want options unless they have a proven talent.Titans tried to keep George. I guess you could make the argument that if they were sooo comfortable with Brown they would have just cut George before he collected his $1mill bonus last spring. Maybe it was loyalty to George, so then why sign A. Smith at all if they were sooo confident in Brown?
 

Bojang0301

Omar4Heisman
Chris Brown is talented, Travis Minor is not. The End
If you switch the names above, I agree :D
ok, Troy Hambrick is talented and Tomlinson is not. :)
I agree with the guy that wanted the names switched.edit to add: If you are implying that Chris Brown is even close to LT (which I do not think you are) that's funny.
 
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Bojang0301

Omar4Heisman
Well I would have to say that the 1st difference between the 2 players is the percieved tallent. Brown seems to have more ability of the 2. Fact of the matter is, Minor has been in the league for 3 years now and hasn't once showed flashes of being a go-to every down back. Brown in his short 1 season has in his few games with decent work and the impressive playoff games vs. top notch Ds in Balt and NE.

Something can also be said for the fact that even with Minor already on the roster Mia went out and gave up a decent amout to get what they saw as a stud RB in Williams. Tenn had a once stud RB and felt the need to let him go even at a modest price in favor of Brown. Brown was also drafted just last year and George is released the following year, strange, I think not. This following a good playoff run for Brown and a lack luster season for George. Thus even if it is just allusion, Brown appears to be a planed replacement Monor is cetainly not. Plus, Mia did not choose to have Ricky retire and place Minor in the role he finds himslef in, where as if Brwon is to start, this will have been by Tenn's choice. Huge difference here IMO.

On top of this I think you are getting too caught up in the fact that yes Minor would have decent numbers. He played situationally on 3rd downs most often. It was easier to expect larger gains in passing downs as Ds would be playing the pass. Not to mention that Ds focus would be on a Ricky style running game (the guy was close to 80% of Mia's O). The change of pace and difference alone would catch the D off guard at least a little. I think Minor's situation is more related to that of Amos in Pitt. than that of Brown's in Tenn. Minor like Amos was able to look better than he really was when Ds were not planed around stoping him and looked at stopping Bettis and Ricky. Of course this could be said of Brown as well, but I don't think it is of the same magnitude. For one Ricky was and effective runner where as Eddie was not. Teams attempt to stop McNair in Tenn and before now in Mia the tried to stop Ricky. I think yo can see the difference.

One finally point. Mia is still looking for ways to avoid having Minor as the main RB and Tenn is not looking for any more help. If that doesn't strick a key, I don't know what will.
That's because they signed Smith. The Dolphins are doing the same thing with Mack/Stewart/Terry Kirby(LOL). I don't see the difference.
 

Facecow

Footballguy
Marc, I'm not saying he can't/won't provide value this year. I think that any RB outside of Clev given the starting role "can" produce FF value. Only trying to show why Brown is percieved as having more value, or better yet being able to achieve more FF production. I don't think Minor lacks tallent, simply that Brown possesses more. Of course that is up to debate though.
True dat. I was responding to "hasn't once showed flashes . . "He hasn't had the opp to show whether he can take 275-325 carries and produce. I also agree that Brown obviously has 3-down back talent while Minor has not demonstrated that, even in his college career.
Minor's college career stats for those who are interested. This casual college football fan remembers him as a shifty runner who was sneaky fast. "Big Game" player.
Code:
Year	Carries	Yards	Avg.	TD	Long1997	112	623	5.6	9	871998	191	857	4.5	7	381999	180	815	4.5	7	47Career	483	2295	4.8	23	87ReceivingYear	Receptions	Yards	Avg.	TD	Long1997	27	207	7.7	2	421998	21	189	9.0	1	311999	16	102	6.4	0	16Career	64	498	7.8	3	42
 
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BINGBING

Footballguy
Anyone comparing Chris Brown to Travis Minor must not have seen the success Chris Brown had in College. He also averaged 5.3 YPC with 2 TD's in the playoffs against the Ravens and the Patriots, and that's 2 of the best D's in the NFL.

 

Marc Levin

Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Yup. But not a workhorse. I recall he had a great knack for finding the seam in the defense and good vision to the hole.In his limited carries for Miami last year (I watched nearly every Dolphoin play last year, and I am focusing on what I recall from the Philly game), he displayed some of those instincts again. He was quick to the hole and found the seam in the defense.

 

Bojang0301

Omar4Heisman
The reason I like Minor so much is that all I have heard is about how hard of a worker he is and what a great teammate he is. Even if he doesn't/isn't able to handle the load I think he would be willing to go back to being a role player. That obviously has nothing to do fantasy wise but he is big enough to handle a full load and anybody who says otherwise is foolish (5'10 205). He is a willing blocker and a good reciever. The only way I see the Dolphins having success is to spread out the offense and as much as Wanny doesn't want to he is damn near forced to. Minor fits perfectly for this.

 

Bojang0301

Omar4Heisman
Marc, I'm not saying he can't/won't provide value this year.  I think that any RB outside of Clev given the starting role "can" produce FF value.  Only trying to show why Brown is percieved as having more value, or better yet being able to achieve more FF production.  I don't think Minor lacks tallent, simply that Brown possesses more.  Of course that is up to debate though.
True dat. I was responding to "hasn't once showed flashes . . "He hasn't had the opp to show whether he can take 275-325 carries and produce. I also agree that Brown obviously has 3-down back talent while Minor has not demonstrated that, even in his college career.
Minor's college career stats for those who are interested. This casual college football fan remembers him as a shifty runner who was sneaky fast. "Big Game" player.
Code:
Year	Carries	Yards	Avg.	TD	Long1997	112	623	5.6	9	871998	191	857	4.5	7	381999	180	815	4.5	7	47Career	483	2295	4.8	23	87ReceivingYear	Receptions	Yards	Avg.	TD	Long1997	27	207	7.7	2	421998	21	189	9.0	1	311999	16	102	6.4	0	16Career	64	498	7.8	3	42
Year Class G-GS Att. Yds. TD Rec. Yds. TD Total Avg. 1999 Fr. 11-0 64 274 3 13 94 0 1,052 95.6 2000 So. 11-1 123 445 5 9 120 0 1,435 130.5 2001 Jr. 11-1 75 406 5 3 49 1 1,136 94.7 2002 Sr. 13-11 193 931 7 16 130 0 2,120 163.1 TOTALS 46-13 455 2,056 20 41 393 1 5,743 122.2 These are Dom Davis' numbers. College is not always the best way to judge whether an NFL back can carry the full load. Obviously Davis is bigger and more powerful but I wouldn't write off Minor because he has never carried the full load.
 

Marc Levin

Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
College is not always the best way to judge whether an NFL back can carry the full load.
:yes: One of my points about Minor is we simply don't know what he can do with a full-time load, or whether he'll wear down with that type of load.What I am sure about is that if he is given over 250 carries, he will be making good things happen and if he gets the opp to run 300 carries, he will have been a great late round value for me.He won't continue in the starting role for the team unless he is making things happen, and Minor "making things happen" is like Santana Moss, Peter Warrick or Barry Sanders making things happen - jaw dropping quickness and shake and bake moves.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
That's because they signed Smith. The Dolphins are doing the same thing with Mack/Stewart/Terry Kirby(LOL). I don't see the difference.
Yes but this is all that there is out there! You can't tell me if a decent RB was out there Mia. wouldn't be all over him right now. Tenn needed an experienced player to provide savy and leadership in a young back field. Maybe spell and provide situationally. However, Brown will still be the main guy in Tenn. (though this seems to be the hot topic of late). Minor is just the lesser of 2 evils at this point. Tenn still choose Brown over George and Mia did not choose Minor over Ricky, he walk out on them. I see this as a very big difference.
 

Gordon Keith

Footballguy
I do completely get the point that you are trying to make, and think it has some merit. However, if you could pick Brown or Minor, who would you take?
I'm not trying to say Minor will light the world on fire, but he did have a ypc that was higher than RW's was in the same system--just like Brown did in Tennessee.

You asked me would I take Brown over Minor . . . I would and I wouldn't. If the choice was Brown in the 4th or Minor in the 10th, I'd take Minor.

I'm not looking to be the poster boy for the Travis Minor Fan Club, but I have been pretty outspoken in supporting Brown and pretty outspoken about bashing Minor, but after reviewing their situations I think that my love for one and distain for the other may not be fully warrented.

Are you people saying that Minor would last into the 7th-10th round if he is the starter? :confused: In my RB hungry leagues he wouldn't make it out of the 5th.My guess if he starts...Brown in the 4th and minor in the 5th

baby arm

 

Marc Levin

Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I do completely get the point that you are trying to make, and think it has some merit. However, if you could pick Brown or Minor, who would you take?
I'm not trying to say Minor will light the world on fire, but he did have a ypc that was higher than RW's was in the same system--just like Brown did in Tennessee.

You asked me would I take Brown over Minor . . . I would and I wouldn't. If the choice was Brown in the 4th or Minor in the 10th, I'd take Minor.

I'm not looking to be the poster boy for the Travis Minor Fan Club, but I have been pretty outspoken in supporting Brown and pretty outspoken about bashing Minor, but after reviewing their situations I think that my love for one and distain for the other may not be fully warrented.
Are you people saying that Minor would last into the 7th-10th round if he is the starter? :confused: In my RB hungry leagues he wouldn't make it out of the 5th.My guess if he starts...Brown in the 4th and minor in the 5th

baby arm

On Monday night (after Ricky retired), I took Minor in the 8th of a "Shark" draft comprised mostly of FFGuy staff. IOW, he is available very late right now, but his draft status is likely to be volatie over the next few weeks.

Once folks see Minor in a few pre-season games, he will jump to just under where Brown is available - probably early 4th or so in 12 team league, a bit later in other leagues - more value in pt/rec leagues.

 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7524645

The one blessing in disguise is that this might force them to change their offensive philosophy. They acquired Williams because they were missing a running game. But despite his productivity, they didn't reach the playoffs either year. So maybe now they can go a different route. Miami's offense might center on their strengths now, which are receivers David Boston and Chris Chambers and tight end Randy McMichael in the aerial attack. If they do go with more of a passing offense, that might mean A.J. Feeley becomes their quarterback as he is a better quarterback than incumbent Jay Fiedler for short passes and seam routes.
http://www.miamidolphins.com/home/home_index.asp
Head Coach Dave Wannstedt

“I think now it’s a situation where we’ve added depth, we’ve added competition. We’ve got a very good football team. Everyone here knows that. It’s a team game and guys rise up when opportunities present themselves. I am not going to stand up here and talk about how I feel about Travis Minor, Sammy Morris or Leonard Henry or what we have to do to add somebody. We’ve got a quality football team. We’ve got good depth at every position. If somebody shows up at any position that we could add to help our football team, we’ll do that. We’ve been saying that for five or six years now. That’ won’t change, but guys will step up. We’ve got enough talent that we’ve got guys that will see this as an opportunity. Opportunities come at different times for different people throughout the course of the year. A player could go out there and get hurt the first day. We’ve had that happen. Three years ago we had Brent Smith hurt his knee in a non-contact drill and be out for the year. Things happen in this game, in all sports, in life and you meet the challenge head-on, you approach with the right attitude, you surround yourself with good people and you go forward.

“From a coaching standpoint, we will see. It would be too early for me to stand up here right now and say we have to make this adjustment without Ricky, we have to do a little bit more or this with Travis or whoever. We will make adjustments, but only after I get a feel for where we are at and how the thing is going. We have plenty of experience to do that from a coaching standpoint. In fairness to where we are at, we’re not going to change our philosophy, but if we have to tweak some things for the players that are in there that do some things a little differently that Ricky did, we’ll do it. That’s common sense and that’s just good coaching. We’ll get that done as we progress though the training camp.”

(On if he is waiting for the sky to fall given the negative things that happened in the offseason) – “This is a football thing. A lot of things that happened don’t have a major influence on what we are doing on a day-to-day basis out there on the practice field. The coaching thing did. I addressed that. That was a misfortune. Joel (Collier) is back doing great now. We are going to be stronger than we have ever been there. I feel really good about where we’re at. I talked to Joel a bunch yesterday, Chris (Foerster) was in here today. I talked to Tony Wise. Our coaches are ready to go. This thing is a football thing. Let’s face it, a good player on your team is not going to be there. These things could have happened at any time of the season. You deal with them. That’s why you have depth. You depend on other guys to step up and you go.”

(On if the team will still be able to do the things it had planned on doing) – “We’re going to be balanced. That’s the word we’ve tried to use. Everybody knows how I believe in running the football and that’s not going change, but balance will be the word. That’s what we have been talking about as far as mixing up the run and the pass. Probably where the adjustments would be, depending on (who is the running back), today it’s Travis, there are some runs and some plays that he might do a little bit differently than Ricky might do. As a coach we need to sit back and make decisions on what gives Travis or whoever the best chance to be successful because of his style, his body size or whatever.”

(On Travis Minor doing well when called upon) – “Travis has been exceptional. Every time his number has been called, he has responded. He’ll do it now. I talked to him today and he is excited about an opportunity.”

(On if Minor will be the No. 1 running back) – “Travis will come in as the No. 1 starting tailback.”

(On if Sammy Morris will see time at tailback) – “That’s a good question. I haven’t talked to Sammy yet, but that’s a possibility. I’ll talk to him and talk to the offensive coaches – tomorrow’s the first day the coaches will all be back– we’ll have discussions on that tomorrow.”

(On Leonard Henry’s health) – “Leonard should be fine to go.”

(On if he has to open up the offense now and if he is confident in his quarterbacks to do so) – “We’ll see how it goes, but we’re going to do what we have to do to move the ball and score points. To say how would be unfair to say at this point.”

(On if it is possible to change the offense at this point) – “It’s just a matter of what we would prioritize. You wouldn’t see anything drastic, but there might be a set of plays or a set of formations that we would do more than we would do if Rick was in there. That’s all.”

(On if Chris Chambers and David Boston will have 80-90 catches) – “That’d be great. I’ll take that right now. I don’t know. That’s a tough one. I think we have to wait and we have to see. It will be my job and the offensive coaches’ jobs to make sure that we maximize the people that we have and to put a player, whoever he is, in a position to be successful where he can help the team.“
Dolphins General Manager Rick Spielman

(On if he will now have to make any trades) – “What we’ll do is we’ll approach this just like we’d approach anything else that we’ve done. We’ll look through everybody’s rosters and we’ll monitor this as we go through the preseason. We’ve already looked at the guys on the street. I don’t think we have to be in a hurry for anything right now. We have a lot of confidence in the guys that we have on this roster. We’ll see what develops as this goes along. But I don’t think that we have to be in a rush for anything right now because of the depth that we do have at the position and how we feel about those players.”

(On if the timing of it makes it harder to find a replacement) – “Again, we’ve got a 65 and a 53-man cut coming up, so you don’t know what’s going to happen and what players might become available down the road. You kind of take your time, see how the guys you have on this roster are developing and going through, and then you address as things come up during the preseason. We’ve made trades during the preseason a few times.”

(On if he thinks he might have been able to get Eddie George or Antowain Smith had Ricky made this decision earlier) – “Just like anything else, if the situation would have come up, you probably would have looked in the direction of players who were available. You’re not going to look back at a hypothetical that could possibly have happened. We’re moving forward. I know coaches, myself and the team is focused on what needs to get done this season and everybody are looking forward to getting started this weekend.”

(On if there is anybody out there who is a possibility) – “I was in yesterday and today just looking through the list. But there’s nothing imminent right now. We’ll just kind of take our time. A lot of that has to do because of the confidence we have in the players we have at that position.”

(On if this will have any bearing on the negotiations with Adewale Ogunleye) – “Not at all. No.”

(On how Ricky will be replaced with the running backs already on the roster) – “I think we have a combination of guys now that have those qualities that we look for. Coach likes a big running back who can pound it up inside. But also with the combination that we have on this roster right now, and the possibility that Dave had addressed of using Sammy Morris some as a running back because that’s what he was when he came out of college. He’s shown to be an excellent third down back and has had very productive years up in Buffalo as a third down back. The coaches will sort that out as this goes along and Dave and his staff will find the strengths of each one of these guys, and utilize those strengths to the best of their ability.”
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/MIA/7319179
Chris Foerster, who was hired this offseason to coach the team's tight ends, was named offensive coordinator. Joel Collier will return to coach the running backs, a position that he has held since 1998. Bernie Parmalee, who had been named running backs coach this offseason following two years as an offensive assistant, will tutor the Dolphins' tight ends. These changes were necessitated because of health-related reasons on the part of Collier.

"I know that I speak for the entire Dolphins organization in expressing my support of Joel," said Dolphins head coach Dave Wannstedt. "No one is more dedicated to his profession. I know that as one of the best young coaches in the league, he will continue to excel in his current position and with any responsibilities he has in the future.

"I think that in Chris we have one of the rising talents in the league's coaching ranks. In his 11 years in the NFL, he has gained extensive offensive experience and is well regarded by the coaches that he has worked with. His time in Minnesota and Tampa gave him an extensive background in the running game, and during his tenure in Indianapolis he played an integral part in one of the most explosive passing attacks in the NFL. He has a solid understanding of the importance of producing a balanced offense, and I know that will be reflected in his approach.

"In addition, he is working with a talented staff, and we all are well along in our preparation for the upcoming season. Nothing will change regarding our offensive philosophy or game planning. I know that Chris and the rest of the coaches will continue to work well together to maximize the production of the players on our roster."

Foerster is an 11-year veteran of the NFL coaching ranks, including the last two seasons as tight ends coach with the Indianapolis Colts. During his tenure with the Colts, tight end Marcus Pollard totaled 83 receptions for 1,019 yards and nine touchdowns. Last season, rookie Dallas Clark was developing into one of the league's top young tight ends as he caught 29 passes for 340 yards and one touchdown before an ankle injury caused him to miss the final quarter of the season.

Prior to joining the Indianapolis staff in 2002, Foerster served the previous six seasons (1996-01) as offensive line coach with Tampa Bay. The Bucs reached the playoffs in four of Foerster's six seasons in Tampa Bay, including 1999 when they were narrowly defeated in the NFC Championship Game by the eventual Super Bowl champion St. Louis Rams. In addition, Foerster's line helped paved the way for running backs Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott, as Dunn went over 1,000 total yards from scrimmage in each of his five seasons during this time (1997-01), while Alstott surpassed the 1,000-yard mark once, and totaled more than 900 yards on four occasions. In 1998, the Bucs tallied 2,148 yards rushing as a team and yielded just 28 sacks.

Overall in his 11-year coaching career, the teams with which Foerster has coached have amassed a regular season record of 103-73. This includes eight trips to the playoffs, three division titles and two appearances in a conference championship game.
http://msn.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=870614
Marc has a chance to revive his career, to redeem himself. He has a chance to be a great offensive coordinator."

The Raiders are unconventional. This team threw 64 times to beat Pittsburgh in the second game of the regular season. They ran 60 times to beat Kansas City in the final game of the regular season.

The idea entering the AFC championship game was to exhaust Tennessee's defensive front by forcing them to rush the passer all afternoon, then take advantage of the Titans late on the ground. Trestman, a former quarterback at the University of Minnesota and briefly with the Vikings, accomplished this by calling for a pass play on 38 of Oakland's 39 snaps in the first three quarters.

"It's a childhood dream to be able to do that," Trestman said. "If you can't throw it, it's pretty fun to call it. I can tell you that.

"The game is changing. Two years ago, this team pounded the ball and did it better than anybody."

Trestman played a quiet, yet significant, role in making sure the Raiders changed with the times.

There were whispers that Trestman lobbied to open up the offense one year earlier after joining Gruden's staff as a senior assistant. That didn't happen. But once Gruden left for Tampa Bay and Trestman was elevated to offensive coordinator to replace Callahan, the two devised their current offensive approach.
So. You have a offensive coordinator who once made Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott a RB combination that got Tampa Bay to the NFC title game. Then you have Marc Trestman who got the Raiders to the Super Bowl by opening up the passing game and using Charlie Garner as a double threat out of the backfield.These are the coaches who are going to influence the head coaches decisions on how the Dolphins adjust to not having Ricky Williams to run the ball 25-30 times a game.

The Dolphins also got David Boston for next to nothing this offseason and he is being coached by his former WR coach in Arizona when Boston had his most success. Boston has had nothing but positive news about him over the past 2 months.

Who thinks this Dolphins offense is going to resemble anything like they have done over the past 2 years?

 

switz

Footballguy
Fact of the matter is, Minor has been in the league for 3 years now and hasn't once showed flashes of being a go-to every down back.
That's not entirely fair - in his rookie year, he was behind Lamar Smith, who had a great season. And then Ricky was acquired. I saw flashes of good ability from him last year when Ricky was struggling. But, that may indicate a better change of pace back than a 3-down guy. I think it is too early in his career to say he doesn't have "it" just b/c he doesn't have the workhorse back style that the Dolphins seem to want to employ.
I actually drafted Minor his rookie season expecting him to beat out LSmith, or at least take the job the following season (but then RW was going there...)
 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
Fact of the matter is, Minor has been in the league for 3 years now and hasn't once showed flashes of being a go-to every down back.
That's not entirely fair - in his rookie year, he was behind Lamar Smith, who had a great season. And then Ricky was acquired. I saw flashes of good ability from him last year when Ricky was struggling. But, that may indicate a better change of pace back than a 3-down guy. I think it is too early in his career to say he doesn't have "it" just b/c he doesn't have the workhorse back style that the Dolphins seem to want to employ.
I actually drafted Minor his rookie season expecting him to beat out LSmith, or at least take the job the following season (but then RW was going there...)
Yep so did I. And I still have him.I had to give Cobalt Cruisin special instructions to NOT cut Travis Minor when he filled in for me while I was in Iraq.

Glad I did. I think he is a great player.

Wannstedt has gotten no where with giving Ricky Williams the ball an average of 388 times!! over the past 2 seasons.

And people wonder why Minor has not had much opportunity to play. :rolleyes:

 

Marc Levin

Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
Biabreakable -you rawk. Nice finds.IMO, Minor will be able to put up good 'nuff RB2 FF numbers on 20 touches a game - that's 15-17 carries and 3-4 catches a game. Very doable, even if they give Morris or some other back the ball 10 times a game in tough yardage/change of pace situations.I don't think th eDolphins are going to move very far away from rushing the ball in the 30 times a game range, though the rush may be used differently than simply pounding Ricky into a wall every 1st and 2nd down until he eventually breaks one.

 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
BTW Wannys butt is definitly on the hot seat and to be honest he seems to be in a semi coma right now from what I have been reading in his reactions to the situation.I think it is time for him to stick to what he is good at. Coaching defense. And let more innovative minds like Trestman figure out the best way to move the offense down the field.Or he might be replaced in 2005. Possibly by Trestman himself.

 

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