Missing Cleveland teens found Alive 10 years after being abducted! (2 Viewers)

[Zow]

According to the CNN article, the police were called by a neighbor who heard yelling in the house. They showed up and left because no one answered the door.

Is that SOP these days? "Well, we're here for a domestic disturbance call, but no one's answering the door. That's that!"

Unless the police can hear something, there's no probable cause for them to enter.

Well, that's arguable depending on the call, but never come back? You get a call about a domestic dispute, you show up to silence, you decide you don't have probable cause to enter (which, again, is arguable) and you never return to see if there are a bunch of dead bodies in there or anything?

So apparently the call was about a child being left on the bus the defendant drove? Not really an in-home domestic dispute so sounds like there isn't much the police could have done there.

From the CNN article:

>Authorities said Tuesday they had no prior indication anything suspicious was going on at the nondescript home on Seymour Avenue with a Puerto Rican flag hanging from the porch. But a few neighbors said they had called police in recent years after hearing yelling at the house and, in another incident, seeing a naked woman walking in the backyard.

I feel like after one or two of those calls, you can't really just let it go without ever talking to someone about it.

I hear you, but I don't believe those situations were the ones which the police were responding to in the reference. Definitely surprised though that those calls didn't draw a home visit and would agree that the report of screams may have given the officers a valid reason to enter the home on a welfare check.

 

[Zow]

Suspect's daughter had been friends with one of the missing girls

Sorry if that's a Honda. Now back to your regularly-schedule Apple Jack bashing.

this is like a bad law and order svu episode. unreal.

 

[Henry Ford]

According to the CNN article, the police were called by a neighbor who heard yelling in the house. They showed up and left because no one answered the door.

Is that SOP these days? "Well, we're here for a domestic disturbance call, but no one's answering the door. That's that!"

Unless the police can hear something, there's no probable cause for them to enter.

Well, that's arguable depending on the call, but never come back? You get a call about a domestic dispute, you show up to silence, you decide you don't have probable cause to enter (which, again, is arguable) and you never return to see if there are a bunch of dead bodies in there or anything?

So apparently the call was about a child being left on the bus the defendant drove? Not really an in-home domestic dispute so sounds like there isn't much the police could have done there.

From the CNN article:

>Authorities said Tuesday they had no prior indication anything suspicious was going on at the nondescript home on Seymour Avenue with a Puerto Rican flag hanging from the porch. But a few neighbors said they had called police in recent years after hearing yelling at the house and, in another incident, seeing a naked woman walking in the backyard.

trong>

I feel like after one or two of those calls, you can't really just let it go without ever talking to someone about it.

I hear you, but I don't believe those situations were the ones which the police were responding to in the reference. Definitely surprised though that those calls didn't draw a home visit and would agree that the report of screams may have given the officers a valid reason to enter the home on a welfare check.

Where are you getting that the November, 2011 call was about a child left on a bus?

 

[Zow]

According to the CNN article, the police were called by a neighbor who heard yelling in the house. They showed up and left because no one answered the door.

Is that SOP these days? "Well, we're here for a domestic disturbance call, but no one's answering the door. That's that!"

Unless the police can hear something, there's no probable cause for them to enter.

Well, that's arguable depending on the call, but never come back? You get a call about a domestic dispute, you show up to silence, you decide you don't have probable cause to enter (which, again, is arguable) and you never return to see if there are a bunch of dead bodies in there or anything?

So apparently the call was about a child being left on the bus the defendant drove? Not really an in-home domestic dispute so sounds like there isn't much the police could have done there.

From the CNN article:

<blockquote>

>Authorities said Tuesday they had no prior indication anything suspicious was going on at the nondescript home on Seymour Avenue with a Puerto Rican flag hanging from the porch. But a few neighbors said they had called police in recent years after hearing yelling at the house and, in another incident, seeing a naked woman walking in the backyard.

>trong>

I feel like after one or two of those calls, you can't really just let it go without ever talking to someone about it.

I hear you, but I don't believe those situations were the ones which the police were responding to in the reference. Definitely surprised though that those calls didn't draw a home visit and would agree that the report of screams may have given the officers a valid reason to enter the home on a welfare check.

Where are you getting that the November, 2011 call was about a child left on a bus?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/07/justice/cleveland-missing-women-latest-developments/index.html?hpt=us_c2

Looks like the bus call was in 2004 and according to the link the only time the police went out.

 

[NCCommish]

According to the CNN article, the police were called by a neighbor who heard yelling in the house. They showed up and left because no one answered the door.

Is that SOP these days? "Well, we're here for a domestic disturbance call, but no one's answering the door. That's that!"

Unless the police can hear something, there's no probable cause for them to enter.

Well, that's arguable depending on the call, but never come back? You get a call about a domestic dispute, you show up to silence, you decide you don't have probable cause to enter (which, again, is arguable) and you never return to see if there are a bunch of dead bodies in there or anything?

So apparently the call was about a child being left on the bus the defendant drove? Not really an in-home domestic dispute so sounds like there isn't much the police could have done there.

From the CNN article:

<blockquote>

>Authorities said Tuesday they had no prior indication anything suspicious was going on at the nondescript home on Seymour Avenue with a Puerto Rican flag hanging from the porch. But a few neighbors said they had called police in recent years after hearing yelling at the house and, in another incident, seeing a naked woman walking in the backyard.

>trong>

I feel like after one or two of those calls, you can't really just let it go without ever talking to someone about it.

I hear you, but I don't believe those situations were the ones which the police were responding to in the reference. Definitely surprised though that those calls didn't draw a home visit and would agree that the report of screams may have given the officers a valid reason to enter the home on a welfare check.

Where are you getting that the November, 2011 call was about a child left on a bus?

He's conflating the official version with the neighbors version. The police said they only went out there over a kid left on the bus. The neighbors say they called them about the naked girl in the yard and the yelling and they did nothing. Cleveland PD has a history of not investigating. Neighbors at another crime scene had been reporting bad smells from a house for several years before PD did anything. When they finally did check it out they found a dozen graves in the backyard.

 

[Henry Ford]

Where are you getting that the November, 2011 call was about a child left on a bus?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/07/justice/cleveland-missing-women-latest-developments/index.html?hpt=us_c2

Looks like the bus call was in 2004 and according to the link the only time the police went out.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/07/justice/ohio-kidnap-suspects-profile/index.html

He said he heard yelling in the house in November 2011 and called police to investigate, but they left after no one answered the door.

 

[Zow]

So we got conflicting stories then.

 

[NCCommish]

So we got conflicting stories then.

I'm going to go with the story from people who have no need to CYA until proven differently.

 

[dgreen]

Suspect's daughter had been friends with one of the missing girls

Sorry if that's a Honda. Now back to your regularly-schedule Apple Jack bashing.

I'm just now starting to follow this story, so not sure where we're at.

But, does this relationship imply the whole family was involved or is it more about how this guy could be doing all of this without his son and daughter knowing it is him?

 

[Billy Bats]

Suspect's daughter had been friends with one of the missing girls

Sorry if that's a Honda. Now back to your regularly-schedule Apple Jack bashing.

this is like a bad law and order svu episode. unreal.

It's hard to assume the kids' involvement, but it would be an easy way to lure the kid into a car for a ride. Hopefully the daughter isn't involved as well, but it's easy to see how she could have been. No one ever went to visit this guy? Son, daughter, no one knew or suspected something?

 

[Henry Ford]

So we got conflicting stories then.

While I'm sure Public Safety Director Martin Flask is up to date on everything that happens on that street, I'm guessing the neighbors know even more.

 

[Jayrok]

Castro's daughter is in prison serving 25 years for trying to kill her daughter in 2008. It appeared she tried to kill her daughter and then herself. What are the odds the child is his or one of the uncles?

Link

 

[NCCommish]

Castro's daughter is in prison serving 25 years for trying to kill her daughter in 2008. It appeared she tried to kill her daughter and then herself. What are the odds the child is his or one of the uncles?

Link

Just when you think you have hit max craziness another layer gets added on.

 

[belljr]

Police: Mr and Mrs. Jones? I have some news about your missing daughter. Parents: What is it? Police: She's dead. Parents: Oh thank God! I thought you were going to say she was alive but severely traumatized. What a relief!

 

[Zow]

So we got conflicting stories then.

While I'm sure Public Safety Director Martin Flask is up to date on everything that happens on that street, I'm guessing the neighbors know even more.

You haven't dealt with too many civilian witnesses, especially in neighborhood dispute type cases, have you?

As for the public safety director, I'm assuming he is just reading the prior incident report or whatever the cops kept a record of.

 

[Henry Ford]

So we got conflicting stories then.

While I'm sure Public Safety Director Martin Flask is up to date on everything that happens on that street, I'm guessing the neighbors know even more.

You haven't dealt with too many civilian witnesses, especially in neighborhood dispute type cases, have you? As for the public safety director, I'm assuming he is just reading the prior incident report or whatever the cops kept a record of.

Yes, I have. In fact, nearly all of the witnesses I deal with are civilians. I'm a civil attorney. And sometimes I represent a homeowner against his neighbor, or someone who lives a few doors down. You haven't had to deal with too many domestic dispute phone calls from neighbors, have you? Because generally when you call in a domestic dispute on your neighbor, he's not a good friend of yours. And you don't go out and look at the house number before you do it. You call and say "I'm at 4005 Hickory Street and my neighbor three doors down has a crying naked woman in the back yard" and the police say "Which address" and you say "three doors down. I'll show you when you get there" Thereafter, the police will put the address into the file, and it will often be cross-referenced with the 911 call in the computer system. However, in a busy jurisdiction, it often won't be. Which means that when searching for "4011 Hickory Street" if you only look through the computer system for dispatches, you won't find the one where the police came out and were sent to the address by the person who called. The police were dispatched to 4005 Hickory Street.

 

[NCCommish]

So we got conflicting stories then.

While I'm sure Public Safety Director Martin Flask is up to date on everything that happens on that street, I'm guessing the neighbors know even more.

You haven't dealt with too many civilian witnesses, especially in neighborhood dispute type cases, have you?

As for the public safety director, I'm assuming he is just reading the prior incident report or whatever the cops kept a record of.

I am not a lawyer but I am really familiar with those in power covering their ###. Cleveland PD has a bad rep for ignoring missing girls and not looking into suspicious activity.

 

[Henry Ford]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

 

[Smack Tripper]

No, I'm saying that nobody but the girls and their families really has anything to celebrate here.

Well, I celebrate the fact that these 3 sick sons of #####es are in custody and are not in a position to do this to anyone else.

I usually like AJ's stuff, but he's way off base being contrarian for contrarians sake or trying to seem deep. There is reason to celebrate if only for the reason you posted. Cynicism will be the death of us.

 

[Jaysus]

Castro's daughter is in prison serving 25 years for trying to kill her daughter in 2008. It appeared she tried to kill her daughter and then herself.

Link

 

[Zow]

So we got conflicting stories then.

While I'm sure Public Safety Director Martin Flask is up to date on everything that happens on that street, I'm guessing the neighbors know even more.

You haven't dealt with too many civilian witnesses, especially in neighborhood dispute type cases, have you? As for the public safety director, I'm assuming he is just reading the prior incident report or whatever the cops kept a record of.

Yes, I have. In fact, nearly all of the witnesses I deal with are civilians. I'm a civil attorney. And sometimes I represent a homeowner against his neighbor, or someone who lives a few doors down. You haven't had to deal with too many domestic dispute phone calls, have you? Because generally when you call in a domestic dispute on your neighbor, he's not a good friend of yours. And you don't go out and look at the house number before you do it. You call and say "I'm at 4005 Hickory Street and my neighbor three doors down has a crying naked woman in the back yard" and the police say "Which address" and you say "three doors down. I'll show you when you get there" Thereafter, the police will put the address into the file, and it will often be cross-referenced with the 911 call in the computer system. However, in a busy jurisdiction, it often won't be. Which means that when searching for "4011 Hickory Street" if you only look through the computer system for dispatches, you won't find the one where the police came out and were sent to the address by the person who called. The police were dispatched to 4005 Hickory Street.

Listened to a couple this morning.

What I am saying is that I don't trust the neighbors to accurately report their call history. If there's a history of recorded/documented 911 calls I definitely stand corrected, but there's contradictory to the cnn link I posted. If the link I posted is correct and it's purely a neighborhood word versus the state's word, I am not willing to be more on the truthfulness of the former over the latter.

 

[Zow]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.

 

[Henry Ford]

So we got conflicting stories then.

While I'm sure Public Safety Director Martin Flask is up to date on everything that happens on that street, I'm guessing the neighbors know even more.

You haven't dealt with too many civilian witnesses, especially in neighborhood dispute type cases, have you? As for the public safety director, I'm assuming he is just reading the prior incident report or whatever the cops kept a record of.

Yes, I have. In fact, nearly all of the witnesses I deal with are civilians. I'm a civil attorney. And sometimes I represent a homeowner against his neighbor, or someone who lives a few doors down. You haven't had to deal with too many domestic dispute phone calls, have you? Because generally when you call in a domestic dispute on your neighbor, he's not a good friend of yours. And you don't go out and look at the house number before you do it. You call and say "I'm at 4005 Hickory Street and my neighbor three doors down has a crying naked woman in the back yard" and the police say "Which address" and you say "three doors down. I'll show you when you get there" Thereafter, the police will put the address into the file, and it will often be cross-referenced with the 911 call in the computer system. However, in a busy jurisdiction, it often won't be. Which means that when searching for "4011 Hickory Street" if you only look through the computer system for dispatches, you won't find the one where the police came out and were sent to the address by the person who called. The police were dispatched to 4005 Hickory Street.

Listened to a couple this morning.

What I am saying is that I don't trust the neighbors to accurately report their call history. If there's a history of recorded/documented 911 calls I definitely stand corrected, but there's contradictory to the cnn link I posted. If the link I posted is correct and it's purely a neighborhood word versus the state's word, I am not willing to be more on the truthfulness of the former over the latter.

And what I'm saying is it's not an issue of truthfulness. It's an issue of paperwork, data entry, and computer searches.

 

[Henry Ford]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.

You're missing the part where you actually read the explanation I gave for why that's relevant.

The 2004 report shows up in any search because the police were dispatched to his address - which the school had on file - from the get go.

 

[Zow]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.

You're missing the part where you actually read the explanation I gave for why that's relevant.

The 2004 report shows up in any search because the police were dispatched to his address - which the school had on file - from the get go.

I read your explanation - which you seem to say that because this is a huge jurisdiction reports are not documented thoroughly that a prior visit would be confirmed (either because an address was not given or sheer laziness/negligence on part of police). You then seem to infer that from that the neighbors' accounts of calling the police with no response should be taken as correct. What I am saying is that, based on my experience dealing with neighborhood witnesses in cases where they make claims of either reporting things and/or police negligence, I disagree. Putting this into the original issue we were discussing, which is whether the cops should have entered the house when they were called out and are therefore partly to blame here for the length of captivity, since the only documented visit was the 2004 bus case I dont think we can conclude negligence based solely on the claims of some neighbors that the police were there more than this.

 

[Henry Ford]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.

You're missing the part where you actually read the explanation I gave for why that's relevant.

The 2004 report shows up in any search because the police were dispatched to his address - which the school had on file - from the get go.

I read your explanation - which you seem to say that because this is a huge jurisdiction reports are not documented thoroughly that a prior visit would be confirmed (either because an address was not given or sheer laziness/negligence on part of police). You then seem to infer that from that the neighbors' accounts of calling the police with no response should be taken as correct. What I am saying is that, based on my experience dealing with neighborhood witnesses in cases where they make claims of either reporting things and/or police negligence, I disagree. Putting this into the original issue we were discussing, which is whether the cops should have entered the house when they were called out and are therefore partly to blame here for the length of captivity, since the only documented visit was the 2004 bus case I dont think we can conclude negligence based solely on the claims of some neighbors that the police were there more than this.

No, I'm saying that Public Safety Director Martin Flask asked for a thorough search of whether the police were dispatched to the house. He got the answer he asked for.

I have no doubt that the police stopped by that house at other times. They just weren't dispatched there. He's been pretty specific in stating that emergency services weren't "called to" the home other than the 2004 and 2000 incidents. I think he's probably right. They visited the home after the initial dispatch.

 

[glumpy]

Castro's daughter is in prison serving 25 years for trying to kill her daughter in 2008. It appeared she tried to kill her daughter and then herself.

Link

That would be the same daughter who was DeJesus' best friend and last to see her free. Incredible stuff coming out here.

 

[Jaysus]

[SIZE=1.2em]Authorities have released pictures of the three brothers arrested after three missing women were found at a Cleveland home where they had allegedly been held captive for a decade.[/SIZE]

The mugshots of Ariel Castro, 52, who owned the property, and his brothers Onil, 50, and Pedro, 54, emerged as police sources claimed the women reportedly had multiple pregnancies at the home.

At least five babies were born at the house, while one of the victims suffered as many as three miscarriages because she was so malnourished, police sources told NewsChannel5.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320519/Amanda-Berry-Gina-DeJesus-Michele-Knight-Ohio-trio-went-missing-TEN-YEARS-ago-ALIVE.html#ixzz2SdwvDoyG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Zow]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.

You're missing the part where you actually read the explanation I gave for why that's relevant.

The 2004 report shows up in any search because the police were dispatched to his address - which the school had on file - from the get go.

I read your explanation - which you seem to say that because this is a huge jurisdiction reports are not documented thoroughly that a prior visit would be confirmed (either because an address was not given or sheer laziness/negligence on part of police). You then seem to infer that from that the neighbors' accounts of calling the police with no response should be taken as correct. What I am saying is that, based on my experience dealing with neighborhood witnesses in cases where they make claims of either reporting things and/or police negligence, I disagree. Putting this into the original issue we were discussing, which is whether the cops should have entered the house when they were called out and are therefore partly to blame here for the length of captivity, since the only documented visit was the 2004 bus case I dont think we can conclude negligence based solely on the claims of some neighbors that the police were there more than this.

No, I'm saying that Public Safety Director Martin Flask asked for a thorough search of whether the police were dispatched to the house. He got the answer he asked for.

I have no doubt that the police stopped by that house at other times. They just weren't dispatched there. He's been pretty specific in stating that emergency services weren't "called to" the home other than the 2004 and 2000 incidents. I think he's probably right. They visited the home after the initial dispatch.

And you're basing this on the neighbors' accounts coupled with the fact that they likely would not have been "dispatched" to the suspect's specific address because it's reasonable the 911 caller didn't know it?

ETA: If so, you then realize it is standard protocol (at least in every jurisdiction I've worked in) for officers to then relay to dispatch updates of their locations and give an address - especially if they go to knock on a door - and that these notifications are either documented or recorded?

 

[Billy Bats]

Castro's daughter is in prison serving 25 years for trying to kill her daughter in 2008. It appeared she tried to kill her daughter and then herself.

Link

That would be the same daughter who was DeJesus' best friend and last to see her free. Incredible stuff coming out here.

No, different daughter.

 

[butcher boy]

local news is trolling Sylvia Brown.

fox8news ‏@fox8news 5h@Sylvia_Browne Also, what is your response to those who criticized your saying to Amanda's mother that her daughter was dead?fox8news ‏@fox8news 6h@Sylvia_Browne Do you have any comment regarding Monday's amazing discovery of Amanda Berry being found alive?

 

[krista4]

Authorities have released pictures of the three brothers arrested after three missing women were found at a Cleveland home where they had allegedly been held captive for a decade.

The mugshots of Ariel Castro, 52, who owned the property, and his brothers Onil, 50, and Pedro, 54, emerged as police sources claimed the women reportedly had multiple pregnancies at the home.

At least five babies were born at the house, while one of the victims suffered as many as three miscarriages because she was so malnourished, police sources told NewsChannel5.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320519/Amanda-Berry-Gina-DeJesus-Michele-Knight-Ohio-trio-went-missing-TEN-YEARS-ago-ALIVE.html#ixzz2SdwvDoyG

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But only one child came out of the house, right? So there were four others born but...? Ugh.

 

[glumpy]

Castro's daughter is in prison serving 25 years for trying to kill her daughter in 2008. It appeared she tried to kill her daughter and then herself.

Link

That would be the same daughter who was DeJesus' best friend and last to see her free. Incredible stuff coming out here.

No, different daughter.

I see it--Emily vs Arlene. the ages seemed to match so I missed the different names.

 

[glumpy]

Authorities have released pictures of the three brothers arrested after three missing women were found at a Cleveland home where they had allegedly been held captive for a decade.

The mugshots of Ariel Castro, 52, who owned the property, and his brothers Onil, 50, and Pedro, 54, emerged as police sources claimed the women reportedly had multiple pregnancies at the home.

At least five babies were born at the house, while one of the victims suffered as many as three miscarriages because she was so malnourished, police sources told NewsChannel5.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320519/Amanda-Berry-Gina-DeJesus-Michele-Knight-Ohio-trio-went-missing-TEN-YEARS-ago-ALIVE.html#ixzz2SdwvDoyG

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But only one child came out of the house, right? So there were four others born but...? Ugh.

the earlier reference to disturbed dirt in the back yard? :(

 

[krista4]

Authorities have released pictures of the three brothers arrested after three missing women were found at a Cleveland home where they had allegedly been held captive for a decade.

The mugshots of Ariel Castro, 52, who owned the property, and his brothers Onil, 50, and Pedro, 54, emerged as police sources claimed the women reportedly had multiple pregnancies at the home.

At least five babies were born at the house, while one of the victims suffered as many as three miscarriages because she was so malnourished, police sources told NewsChannel5.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320519/Amanda-Berry-Gina-DeJesus-Michele-Knight-Ohio-trio-went-missing-TEN-YEARS-ago-ALIVE.html#ixzz2SdwvDoyG

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

But only one child came out of the house, right? So there were four others born but...? Ugh.

the earlier reference to disturbed dirt in the back yard? :(

That's what I was thinking, too. :(

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Castro's daughter is in prison serving 25 years for trying to kill her daughter in 2008. It appeared she tried to kill her daughter and then herself. What are the odds the child is his or one of the uncles?

Link

The FFA Scotland Yard in full swing, nice work Jay

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Insane situation. Wow.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

123 N E Street

 

[TLEF316]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBu4JDic95U

2nd interview with Charles Ramsey. Probably been posted already, but I'm too lazy to look.

"I got the day off from work....so naturally, you doin nothing....."

 

[SacramentoBob]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

Our house numbers don't run consecutively, so if my north neighbor were on my street, I wouldn't know. Directly north of me is my backyard which leads to the backyard of another house, so I'd have even less of a clue in that instance.

 

[Henry Ford]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.

You're missing the part where you actually read the explanation I gave for why that's relevant.

The 2004 report shows up in any search because the police were dispatched to his address - which the school had on file - from the get go.

I read your explanation - which you seem to say that because this is a huge jurisdiction reports are not documented thoroughly that a prior visit would be confirmed (either because an address was not given or sheer laziness/negligence on part of police). You then seem to infer that from that the neighbors' accounts of calling the police with no response should be taken as correct. What I am saying is that, based on my experience dealing with neighborhood witnesses in cases where they make claims of either reporting things and/or police negligence, I disagree. Putting this into the original issue we were discussing, which is whether the cops should have entered the house when they were called out and are therefore partly to blame here for the length of captivity, since the only documented visit was the 2004 bus case I dont think we can conclude negligence based solely on the claims of some neighbors that the police were there more than this.

No, I'm saying that Public Safety Director Martin Flask asked for a thorough search of whether the police were dispatched to the house. He got the answer he asked for.

I have no doubt that the police stopped by that house at other times. They just weren't dispatched there. He's been pretty specific in stating that emergency services weren't "called to" the home other than the 2004 and 2000 incidents. I think he's probably right. They visited the home after the initial dispatch.

And you're basing this on the neighbors' accounts coupled with the fact that they likely would not have been "dispatched" to the suspect's specific address because it's reasonable the 911 caller didn't know it?

ETA: If so, you then realize it is standard protocol (at least in every jurisdiction I've worked in) for officers to then relay to dispatch updates of their locations and give an address - especially if they go to knock on a door - and that these notifications are either documented or recorded?

Your jurisdictions change the dispatch log following initial dispatch? That sounds like a serious problem. Anywhere I've worked, police radio position updates which are included in incident reports logged by dispatch number and incident number. Dispatch is just that - being dispatched. If the criminal runs from a bar when the police show up and hides out in a house, the new units which are dispatched to that house will have a dispatch address of the house. The initial dispatch will still be to the bar.

 

[Henry Ford]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

Our house numbers don't run consecutively, so if my north neighbor were on my street, I wouldn't know. Directly north of me is my backyard which leads to the backyard of another house, so I'd have even less of a clue in that instance.

That's my point.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

Santa?

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

Same address as mine but Condo #33

What now?

 

[Fennis]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

that test really wasn't much fun

 

[Henry Ford]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

that test really wasn't much fun

It's true. But now I know where MOP lives.

 

[Henry Ford]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

Same address as mine but Condo #33

What now?

Now tell me your bank account number.

 

[Rayderr]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

Trick question. There is no one directly north of me.

 

[Zow]

Quick fun test - everyone, without looking, tell me your neighbor's address directly north of you.

What am I missing here? I posted the link where the report states that the police went out to the address once in 2004. Again, if there's documented other incidents (and not just the claim of some neighbors) I stand corrected.

You're missing the part where you actually read the explanation I gave for why that's relevant.

The 2004 report shows up in any search because the police were dispatched to his address - which the school had on file - from the get go.

I read your explanation - which you seem to say that because this is a huge jurisdiction reports are not documented thoroughly that a prior visit would be confirmed (either because an address was not given or sheer laziness/negligence on part of police). You then seem to infer that from that the neighbors' accounts of calling the police with no response should be taken as correct. What I am saying is that, based on my experience dealing with neighborhood witnesses in cases where they make claims of either reporting things and/or police negligence, I disagree. Putting this into the original issue we were discussing, which is whether the cops should have entered the house when they were called out and are therefore partly to blame here for the length of captivity, since the only documented visit was the 2004 bus case I dont think we can conclude negligence based solely on the claims of some neighbors that the police were there more than this.

No, I'm saying that Public Safety Director Martin Flask asked for a thorough search of whether the police were dispatched to the house. He got the answer he asked for.

I have no doubt that the police stopped by that house at other times. They just weren't dispatched there. He's been pretty specific in stating that emergency services weren't "called to" the home other than the 2004 and 2000 incidents. I think he's probably right. They visited the home after the initial dispatch.

And you're basing this on the neighbors' accounts coupled with the fact that they likely would not have been "dispatched" to the suspect's specific address because it's reasonable the 911 caller didn't know it?

ETA: If so, you then realize it is standard protocol (at least in every jurisdiction I've worked in) for officers to then relay to dispatch updates of their locations and give an address - especially if they go to knock on a door - and that these notifications are either documented or recorded?

Your jurisdictions change the dispatch log following initial dispatch? That sounds like a serious problem. Anywhere I've worked, police radio position updates which are included in incident reports logged by dispatch number and incident number. Dispatch is just that - being dispatched. If the criminal runs from a bar when the police show up and hides out in a house, the new units which are dispatched to that house will have a dispatch address of the house. The initial dispatch will still be to the bar.

Obviously no.

But unless you're correct that the guy only addressed if officers were ever specifically dispatched to that location, I would think an address search, even in a large jurisdiction, would turn up the house and confirm whether officers were there. Given that, I don't think the guy would be that cagey and I'd still doubt the accuracy of the neighbors.

 

[Pantherz]

CNN just interviewed a neighbor who said his sister called police in 2011 after seeing a woman with a small child standing in the window of the house trying to get help. Guy said the Police knocked on the door about 20 times but no one came to the door. Police looked around outside then left.