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Missing Element-Brett Favre & The Packers (1 Viewer)

Ookie Pringle

Footballguy
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/36075694.html

Rodgers has played well, but absence of Favre's quiet leadership has hurt the Packers more than some in the organization admit

By Tom Silverstein of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Dec. 13, 2008

Something has been missing from a team that 11 months ago was a field goal away from playing in the Super Bowl. The Packers have been in every game but one this season and yet they have lacked the spark or the confidence or whatever it is that they had last year that got them over the hump in so many close games.

It's easy to pass their 5-8 record off on injuries or misfortune or youth.

But what if the missing ingredient is Brett Favre? Not the touchdown passes, yards and interceptions he contributed; rather the aura, unspoken leadership and broad shoulders he provided for a team learning to win again.

For 16 years, he was the face of the organization, and when he had the ball in his hands with the game on the line, the atmosphere was electric whether it was home or away. Was he going to pull off a come-from-behind miracle or was he going to throw one of those bone-headed interceptions?

Either way, the focus was on him, and his teammates' job - perceived or otherwise - was to be there when he needed them. It didn't matter if you played on offense or defense, you didn't want to be the guy who let him down.

"He was a leader to us also," cornerback Jarrett Bush said of the defense. "He's Brett Favre. That's saying enough right there. We tried to play at his level. We did that for the most part. I don't know if there's a void (now). We've just got to adapt. He's not here anymore, 'OK, we have to find a way to win.' "

As Favre said in his retirement news conference in March, it was getting harder for him to carry the weight of expectation on his shoulders, so it was only logical to wonder how the burden would be spread when he left. Players like him only come around once a generation, and to think that his successor, Aaron Rodgers, without a single start under his belt, would be able to fill the void was a pipedream.

On the field, Rodgers has about matched Favre's statistical output from last season, showing the potential to be a great quarterback for years to come. But Rodgers hasn't even been close to providing the same presence. The Packers have had an opportunity to win in the final minutes of six games this season, and they have failed to pull it out each time.

By comparison, in Favre's first extended action with the Packers, he led the team to a dramatic come-from-behind victory over the Cincinnati Bengals with a 35-yard pass to Kittrick Taylor with 13 seconds left. The following year, he erased a dismal 24-interception season with one 40-yard, last-minute miracle touchdown throw to Sterling Sharpe against Detroit in the playoffs.

There is no stamp of credibility like success, and Favre had plenty of it right from the start. Rodgers has tried to assume a leadership role, but he doesn't have the body of work Favre did to back up his efforts. He said he has tried to be a leader, but he needs help.

"Our good players need to have the confidence, and maybe it takes somebody saying something, maybe it takes a coach," Rodgers said last week. "I'm not really sure what it is. It's a different dynamic than any other team I've been on. It's been interesting to watch and also be a part of it.

"But guys have to realize they have an opportunity to lead. I don't know what they want from me all the time. I'm trying to be the best leader I can. I'm trying to lead by example, which I think is the most important thing a leader can do. But other guys need to make the most of their leadership opportunities as well."

The biggest mistake general manager Ted Thompson might have made in constructing this team was to underestimate how Favre's presence would be missed around the organization. Thompson's decision to go young again left the team with only a handful of veterans to assume leadership roles.

One of those players, long-snapper Rob Davis, eventually was let go also. In a Journal Sentinel poll last year that asked players to select the team's best leaders, Favre was first and Davis was second. Davis was retained as player programs director, but he's not in uniform on game day and doesn't have a locker.

Instead of adding a few grizzled veterans who might have helped in the transition, Thompson, who did not return a phone message left with him last week, signed no player with more than four years experience. As a result, the Packers were the youngest team in the NFL on opening day for the third straight year. Just before the trading deadline he had one last chance to add a player with tremendous credibility, but he passed on paying a premium price for Kansas City tight end Tony Gonzalez.

The veterans left to carry the weight had acquiesced to Favre in the past and probably were as unsure as the younger players what their leadership role should be this year. How many times this season have you seen a defensive player gather his mates on the sideline and demand accountability? Who, other than Rodgers early last week, has stood up and publicly urged his teammates to look in the mirror and make sure they're being honest with themselves?

It just hasn't happened.

"I think there is a transition period," Rodgers said of Favre leaving. "I think guys need to give more of themselves. They need to realize there's an opportunity to be a leader. Before, there might not have been that opportunity (because of Favre). But it's not about one person; it's about everybody in here picking up the slack."

Leadership is not easily quantifiable. Ask just about any player in the Packers locker room and he'll tell you that Favre rarely spoke to the team. In his latter years, he wasn't even in the locker room that much.

In his late 30s, Favre had little in common with a bunch of first-, second- and third-year players. But on Sundays, that changed, and he drew the attention of every television camera, photographer's lens and pair of eyes in the stadium. It didn't mean he came through all the time, but there was an air of confidence with him in charge.

"I think one thing you have to understand, Brett never spoke," receiver Donald Driver said. "He was never one of those guys who was verbal. He just played. That's how he led. I think that's how some guys think that's their leadership. That was 4. He never said anything to guys. He just went out there and played. Guys, they looked at it and said that's how they're going to perform."

When he took over a dismal 4-12 team at the end of the 1991 season, former Packers general manager Ron Wolf began retooling the roster with a keen eye on locker room chemistry. He and coach Mike Holmgren avoided character risks until they had built a team with players who could police those questionable ones.

Critical to it all was finding players the others could follow.

"You want real leaders to emerge on offense and on defense," Wolf said. "We had that with Favre and (LeRoy) Butler. It really helps when the quarterback is the leader. For us, Favre was a leader. And Butler, besides being a very good player, was really a leader.

"I think it's important that the leader of your team be a leader in the locker room, that they listen to him at the critical time. As Brett got better and better his play spoke for him. I think there's a respect there for what a guy is."

When Reggie White joined the team in 1993, the team gained another veteran leader. Within a year or two, Favre started to exert his leadership more and before long the Packers had a locker room full of veterans capable of pulling rank whenever necessary.

"Reggie was one of those guys who was vocal, but he got it done on the field, too," said former Packers defensive end Vonnie Holliday, who was drafted in 1998 and played one season with White. "It was an incredible opportunity to have that tutelage.

"When he left, there were other leaders still there. I looked at Dorsey Levens as a leader. There were older guys around, guys like Frank Winters. I don't think it was the same situation as Brett leaving and you're left with a young team."

Holliday said his current Miami Dolphins team changed overnight when veteran quarterback Chad Pennington was brought in. He said a young offense that was unsure of itself suddenly had someone with experience, knowledge and a solid work ethic to follow.

"That's something our young offense needed," Holliday said. "It's the reason they're playing so well."

Not every player in the locker room agrees that the absence of Favre has left a leadership void. Some think the close losses come down to performance, not the fact there is a first-year starter at quarterback or a majority of young players on the roster.

They point to Mark Tauscher, Charles Woodson, Aaron Kampman and Driver as leaders they turn to. None is considered a vocal leader but speaks with his performance and dedication.

"To say one guy could change what's going on, I don't think you can say that," receiver Ruvell Martin said. "I was here in 2005. We were 4-12 and Brett was here then. We're all professionals. Everybody leads. It's more of a team spirit."

Maybe so, but it's hard to argue that something hasn't been missing from this team. The way it looks now, there will be plenty of time during the off-season to figure out whether it was Favre's leadership.

 
Tom Silverstein is one of the best beat writers in the NFL. He has been covering the Packers for over a decade and has a strong understanding of their history and organization. I'm posting this to indicate he isn't a bad writer or someone just writing stuff out of his a**. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to this team.

This was a great article. Silverstein makes several points I made in the summer when Thompson ran Favre out of town. He greatly underestimated the importance of the intangibles Favre brings to a team.

And the Packers have greatly suffered this season because of it.

 
This is a very good article about what Favre meant on the field. But as a locker room leader he never was vocal leader.

Right now leaders should be Driver, Kampy, Barnett, Woodson, and Harris on the field and off. Rodgers in time should be a good leader as he has carried himself very well since being named the starter.

 
Tom Silverstein is one of the best beat writers in the NFL. He has been covering the Packers for over a decade and has a strong understanding of their history and organization. I'm posting this to indicate he isn't a bad writer or someone just writing stuff out of his a**. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to this team. This was a great article. Silverstein makes several points I made in the summer when Thompson ran Favre out of town. He greatly underestimated the importance of the intangibles Favre brings to a team. And the Packers have greatly suffered this season because of it.
:thumbup:
 
:) :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

WHO CARES???????

The decision was made and it's OVER.

:wall:
Don't disagree it's over and nothing you can do. But looking at gm move and how they worked out is always going to be a huge part of the talk here.J
I do agree with you here and maybe because it's my team, but I am sick to death of all the second guessing and maybes, coulda, shoulda's etc.We just need to move on and let it go.

 
Farve has looked like an old QB for most of the year.

The 6 TD game was a fluke.

It was time for GB to move on. They would not have won a big game with Farve and this year was Rogers "first" season as a starter. For a first year starter he has done pretty good.

The bottom line.."It was time"

 
Farve has looked like an old QB for most of the year.The 6 TD game was a fluke.It was time for GB to move on. They would not have won a big game with Farve and this year was Rogers "first" season as a starter. For a first year starter he has done pretty good.The bottom line.."It was time"
The time to move on would have been after this season. By the way....it's Rodgers.
 
It's extremely gratifying to see the Packers struggle with Favre gone...the organization deservers what it gets.

The GM is a joke and should be canned.

 
The official o/u on the percentage of total posts in this thread by sho is 27%.
Whats the over under on your posts worrying about how much I post...before I ever do?Do you all not have anything better to do than worry about my post count?Seriously guys...just grow up already.
 
It's extremely gratifying to see the Packers struggle with Favre gone...the organization deservers what it gets. The GM is a joke and should be canned.
:lol: Though I don't really care if he stays or goes, what's done is done. The Packers have earned their record this year, that is for sure.
 
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Pretty much everyone that deals with football operations for the Green Bay Packers were on board with the decision.Its a decent article...and yes, some of what Favre did could have helped some with this team.But, and of course its an opinion...it would not have been enough with this team.Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?
 
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Yup although my issues with Thompson this year go beyond his (in my opinion) inept handling of the Favre situation.
 
sho nuff said:
LHUCKS said:
packersfan said:
ScottyFargo said:
BeaverCleaver said:
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?
Classic sho nonsense.
 
It sure was a shame when Favre retired...

who knows how this season would have gone if he had simply said "Sure, I'll play another year" to the Packers?

:kicksrock:

 
Put me in the camp that doesn't believe the absence of Favre explains how hideous the defense is this year.

Trying to explain it in terms of Favre's leadership is "Give Me a Break!" material. Defensive players don't pay any attention to what the quarterback says.

 
sho nuff said:
LHUCKS said:
packersfan said:
ScottyFargo said:
BeaverCleaver said:
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?
Classic sho nonsense.
Classic quote parsing...nonsense?I was addressing a part of the article...you instead say absolutely nothing about it...don't even try refuting what I said...and just do your usual calling what I said nonsense without being able to actually say anything of substance.Wo...you think the defense was not playing as hard today in the end? That they would have played harder for Favre?
 
sho nuff said:
LHUCKS said:
packersfan said:
ScottyFargo said:
BeaverCleaver said:
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?
Classic sho nonsense.
Wo...you think the defense was not playing as hard today in the end? That they would have played harder for Favre?
It is amazing the crap you come up with. There is not one person that stated the defense would have played harder for Favre. You are very ignorant if you are missing the point of the article and then trying to spin it like you always do with this nonsense. Did you know the offense scored only 16 points today?
 
sho nuff said:
LHUCKS said:
packersfan said:
ScottyFargo said:
BeaverCleaver said:
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?
Classic sho nonsense.
Wo...you think the defense was not playing as hard today in the end? That they would have played harder for Favre?
It is amazing the crap you come up with. There is not one person that stated the defense would have played harder for Favre. You are very ignorant if you are missing the point of the article and then trying to spin it like you always do with this nonsense. Did you know the offense scored only 16 points today?
:lol:
 
sho nuff said:
LHUCKS said:
packersfan said:
ScottyFargo said:
BeaverCleaver said:
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?
Classic sho nonsense.
Wo...you think the defense was not playing as hard today in the end? That they would have played harder for Favre?
It is amazing the crap you come up with. There is not one person that stated the defense would have played harder for Favre. You are very ignorant if you are missing the point of the article and then trying to spin it like you always do with this nonsense. Did you know the offense scored only 16 points today?
I never claimed anyone here said this.Di you even read the article?it stated how people supposedly would play better for Favre...would try harder for him.Im addressing that exact point.I do realize that about the offense...which anytime I have discussed this game I have talked about their ineffectiveness today...that not getting that one yard sucked. That settling for FGs is not the way to win a game. That Rodgers took another bad sack late in the game.Im spinning nothing. One of the biggest intangibles discussed was how others would play for him.And Im not seeing anyone on this team not giving effort because Brett is not there.
 
sho nuff said:
LHUCKS said:
packersfan said:
ScottyFargo said:
BeaverCleaver said:
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?
Classic sho nonsense.
Wo...you think the defense was not playing as hard today in the end? That they would have played harder for Favre?
It is amazing the crap you come up with. There is not one person that stated the defense would have played harder for Favre. You are very ignorant if you are missing the point of the article and then trying to spin it like you always do with this nonsense. Did you know the offense scored only 16 points today?
I never claimed anyone here said this.Di you even read the article?it stated how people supposedly would play better for Favre...would try harder for him.Im addressing that exact point.I do realize that about the offense...which anytime I have discussed this game I have talked about their ineffectiveness today...that not getting that one yard sucked. That settling for FGs is not the way to win a game. That Rodgers took another bad sack late in the game.Im spinning nothing. One of the biggest intangibles discussed was how others would play for him.And Im not seeing anyone on this team not giving effort because Brett is not there.
You really have no clue. The article was about leadership and that is missing this season. Leadership doesn't just impact the defense....it impacts the offense and the entire team. You are trying again to spin this to the play of the defense. Not working, sho. There is so much more to leadership than players giving effort. Spin.......spin and spin, sho.
 
You really have no clue. The article was about leadership and that is missing this season. Leadership doesn't just impact the defense....it impacts the offense and the entire team. You are trying again to spin this to the play of the defense. Not working, sho. There is so much more to leadership than players giving effort. Spin.......spin and spin, sho.
So there were not quotes about people playing harder for him? Huh...only there were.I mentioned one part of the article. You can deny it all you want...but it was in there...and that is what I discussed.And I used it with the offense too...not just the defense.Or does the defense usually come out when the packers have the ball and run it 3 straight times and fail to get a yard?The only spin is you...parsing my quotes and missing things I have said...also missing pieces of the article that I was specifically addressing.
 
You really have no clue. The article was about leadership and that is missing this season. Leadership doesn't just impact the defense....it impacts the offense and the entire team. You are trying again to spin this to the play of the defense. Not working, sho. There is so much more to leadership than players giving effort. Spin.......spin and spin, sho.
Or does the defense usually come out when the packers have the ball and run it 3 straight times and fail to get a yard?The only spin is you...parsing my quotes and missing things I have said...also missing pieces of the article that I was specifically addressing.
This is classic sho crap! The article is about leadership and we get something about running the ball 3 straight times. :goodposting:
 
if you deny Favre's leadership having any effect on this team at all you must also believe...

That rivalries mean nothing to a players mindset and performance.

That there is no such thing as bulletin board material.

That defending a championship is just as easy as winning one.

That the mental fatigue of a season has no effects on performance.

That a good locker room has no effect on performance.

That TO is not a cancer.

 
sho nuff said:
LHUCKS said:
packersfan said:
ScottyFargo said:
BeaverCleaver said:
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?
Classic sho nonsense.
Wo...you think the defense was not playing as hard today in the end? That they would have played harder for Favre?
It is amazing the crap you come up with. There is not one person that stated the defense would have played harder for Favre. You are very ignorant if you are missing the point of the article and then trying to spin it like you always do with this nonsense. Did you know the offense scored only 16 points today?
I never claimed anyone here said this.Di you even read the article?it stated how people supposedly would play better for Favre...would try harder for him.Im addressing that exact point.I do realize that about the offense...which anytime I have discussed this game I have talked about their ineffectiveness today...that not getting that one yard sucked. That settling for FGs is not the way to win a game. That Rodgers took another bad sack late in the game.Im spinning nothing. One of the biggest intangibles discussed was how others would play for him.And Im not seeing anyone on this team not giving effort because Brett is not there.
How can you see that? No way to really tell who is playing harder because one player or another is there.This works both ways. Favre or Rodgers or Pennigton.
 
You really have no clue. The article was about leadership and that is missing this season. Leadership doesn't just impact the defense....it impacts the offense and the entire team. You are trying again to spin this to the play of the defense. Not working, sho. There is so much more to leadership than players giving effort. Spin.......spin and spin, sho.
Or does the defense usually come out when the packers have the ball and run it 3 straight times and fail to get a yard?The only spin is you...parsing my quotes and missing things I have said...also missing pieces of the article that I was specifically addressing.
This is classic sho crap! The article is about leadership and we get something about running the ball 3 straight times. :)
And more classic parsing of qutoes.The article was about plenty of things...I mentioned players playing harder (because it was quoted in the article)...and stated in my post above that do you think Kuhn was not playing any harder trying to get that 1st down? Or Grant in his 2 chances.You then stated I was talking just about the defense...of course, if you quit parsing my quotes and include the whole things, you will see I specifically mentioned the offense above as well.Its pointless even trying to get that into your head.You just keep pulling partial quotes and taking them completely out of context to what I had said.
 
if you deny Favre's leadership having any effect on this team at all you must also believe...That rivalries mean nothing to a players mindset and performance.That there is no such thing as bulletin board material.That defending a championship is just as easy as winning one.That the mental fatigue of a season has no effects on performance.That a good locker room has no effect on performance.That TO is not a cancer.
I don't think too many people are denying that.I deny its had enough of an effect to change this season from crap to any huge success though.
 
sho nuff said:
LHUCKS said:
packersfan said:
ScottyFargo said:
BeaverCleaver said:
A very interesting article as the Packers fall to 5-9.
3 times as many losses as last year, with very little turnover. Very weird.
Extremely disappointing to see a Super Bowl contender turned to rubbish in less than a year. Hopefully Thompson can rebound next year because he's had a horrible year as a GM in 2008.
Didn't the coaching staff support the ouster of Favre as well?
Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?
Classic sho nonsense.
Wo...you think the defense was not playing as hard today in the end? That they would have played harder for Favre?
It is amazing the crap you come up with. There is not one person that stated the defense would have played harder for Favre. You are very ignorant if you are missing the point of the article and then trying to spin it like you always do with this nonsense. Did you know the offense scored only 16 points today?
I never claimed anyone here said this.Di you even read the article?it stated how people supposedly would play better for Favre...would try harder for him.Im addressing that exact point.I do realize that about the offense...which anytime I have discussed this game I have talked about their ineffectiveness today...that not getting that one yard sucked. That settling for FGs is not the way to win a game. That Rodgers took another bad sack late in the game.Im spinning nothing. One of the biggest intangibles discussed was how others would play for him.And Im not seeing anyone on this team not giving effort because Brett is not there.
How can you see that? No way to really tell who is playing harder because one player or another is there.This works both ways. Favre or Rodgers or Pennigton.
Sure...no way to fully tell.But does anyone think they are not playing hard? Thats what it comes down to.
 
What are you talking about, sho? Seriously? So if the players on the team "play hard" they will automatically win? There is so much more to winning that you don't seem to understand.

 

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