Missing Element-Brett Favre & The Packers (1 Viewer)

[zDragon]

WHo said they do not know anything about leadership.

But can anyone point to any of these quotes and show where Brett Favre made his Packer teammates play better and now they are not simply because of him?

Thanks, Ill hang up and listen.

and I quote sho nuff....."I go through no lengths to diminish what the guy has done."

And again...I don't diminish what he "has actually done".I diminish the thoughts and opinions of others who are overestimating his effect.

So again...can anyone point to a single player that played better simply because of Brett Favre and is now playing worse because its Rodgers at QB?

Anyone?

There have bee quotes in here by Jets players acknowledging what Favre has done to elevate their play(and you dismiss them). It was discussed this morning on ESPN. Wayne Larrivee, the voice of the Packers has stated publicly the Packers are missing Favre's leadership and you try to fall back on some lame attempt like this. The team is missing leadership and EVERYONE knows it. Stop trying this silly attempt to point out single players because all you will do is spin and spin again in your attempts to diminish what Favre meant to the Packers. You also should know that leadership is an intangible and difficult to measure but this is where you want to try and spin too.

Whoa, scratch that.For evidence that players are now missing Favre's leadership...we now have Stinger Ray's "Cause Wayne Larrivee said so."

Well, I guess that settles it. All you needed to do was find someone else to espouse the same unsupported position without citing any evidence what so ever.

I guess for evidence that communism is a good idea, you could just say "Cause Joseph Stalin said so." Who knows communism better than Joseph Stalin.

Instead of evidence, we get a celebrity endorsement. I think Ricardo Montalban has a sweet Chrysler Cordoba over in the corner to sell you...with supple corinthian leather.

You have to be fishing. Wayne Larrivee has covered the Packers for years doing their radio and so did the author of the article. Not to mention other NFL experts that state the Packers miss Favre's leadership yet we are all supposed to believe James The Scot over these experts. You are a fool, Jimmy.

They are fishing or just refusing to look at the complete picture. Not really worth arguing with them except for when your bored.

Quit with the not seeing the big picture. For a person who constantly has posted things that don't even address the point I was making and think it proved something, you have no room to talk about the big picture.Also, don't lump me in with James...I think he is a bit misguided on this one.

Just calling it the way I see it. Weren't you going to prove your side of the argument? You know show us the definitive facts from our side. I along with others continue to add facts and supporting data to our point of view. Yet I don't see that from your side of the debate.

1. No, I was not going to prove that people are playing just as hard for Rodgers...because it cannot be proven.But I have asked several people if guys are not playing harder for him...and not one person has answered that question for some reason.

And you keep come back to the supporting data.

Its great stuff...but not one bit of it has supported the idea that guys tried harder for Favre than they have for Aaron Rodgers...and thats all I care about right now.

its the diffence between the 2 guys that matters...is this leadership that is lacking...the key thing in the season? Would it be enough for this team?

I don't think so...which is why I say many of you are overestimating its overall effect.

You also don't even see my side of the debate...or you would quit posting quotes that do not even address what I have said or make false accusations about what you claim I said.

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.

Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Phase of the Game]

Here is another quote that I like....

“If you’re not giving it 100 percent, he’s going to remind you,” Colledge said. “And when he needs you to make a play, he’s going to let you know. You respect that, and it drives you to want to be better. I mean, I don’t want to be the guy that gets Brett hurt. I don’t even want to be the guy that gets Brett touched. So it pushes me every day to be a better offensive lineman.”

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21016402/page/2/

But of course sho and Jimmy want us to believe that players give 100% no matter who the QB is.

No, I want you to believe that players are still playing as hard as they did last year...even without Brett around.Yes, he makes you want to be better. Does it mean you really play harder or better? No.

Does that quote say they don't want to do better for Rodgers too? No.

Kind of my point. but you still don't understand that.

Have you ever worked with/for a great leader? Have you ever worked for a piss-poor leader? Leadership makes a huge difference in any organization, and in most situations. Period.

Yes I have worked with both. Though, none of us are multimillion dollar athletes playing for our next contracts and our careers 1. with cameras and coaches watching any more.A guy does not try hard or perform is a guy who is not around very long in the league.

Im not denying Favre was a great leader...far from it.

Oh...and posting all of those quotes that Favre is a great leader...does not show where Rodgers is not a good one...and t 2. that he is not motivating others or others are not playing hard for him.

3. Which is my point.

To compare to this year right now. Is the difference in leadership enough...I don't think so.

4. I think there are too many other missing pieces right now on this team.

1. You seem to be saying you have experience in professional sports. So who did you play for and with?2. Please post data to support your side. I posted comments from Rodgers that indicates even he thinks he is not the leader Brett was and that others need to step in and help.

3. Post information to support your point then.

4. A lot of teams can say this. It's just a fall back excuse if you ask me.

4. A fall back excuse? That there are a ton of factors leading to this team's play? Umm...my point is, supposed lack of leadership by Rodgers and him supposedly not motivating people enough is not one of the top issues on this team right now.

PROVE IT!Oh wait....you wrote this.....

1. No, I was not going to prove that people are playing just as hard for Rodgers...because it cannot be proven.

But I have asked several people if guys are not playing harder for him...and not one person has answered that question for some reason.

So...in your warped world you cannot prove people are playing just as hard for Rodgers but yet you want proof guys are not playing harder for him? Which.....is ignoring....LEADERSHIP!!Sho...you really need to quit on this because you are looking more and more foolish!!

 

[sho nuff]

Here is another quote that I like....

“If you’re not giving it 100 percent, he’s going to remind you,” Colledge said. “And when he needs you to make a play, he’s going to let you know. You respect that, and it drives you to want to be better. I mean, I don’t want to be the guy that gets Brett hurt. I don’t even want to be the guy that gets Brett touched. So it pushes me every day to be a better offensive lineman.”

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21016402/page/2/

But of course sho and Jimmy want us to believe that players give 100% no matter who the QB is.

No, I want you to believe that players are still playing as hard as they did last year...even without Brett around.Yes, he makes you want to be better. Does it mean you really play harder or better? No.

Does that quote say they don't want to do better for Rodgers too? No.

Kind of my point. but you still don't understand that.

Have you ever worked with/for a great leader? Have you ever worked for a piss-poor leader? Leadership makes a huge difference in any organization, and in most situations. Period.

Oh...and posting all of those quotes that Favre is a great leader...does not show where Rodgers is not a good one...and that he is not motivating others or others are not playing hard for him.Which is my point.

Ok...show us all the quotes from so many different people in the NFL that show Rodgers is a leader like Favre.

and another great example of your spin.Would you please link me to my post where I claimed Rodgers was a leader like Favre?

Im willing to bet you will never find it.

Look above.....you keep claiming Rodgers is a good leader which is your lame attempt to compare him to Favre and also leads to your quote that you don't do anything to diminish what Favre did.Tell us why you think Rodgers is a good leader?

I looked above...I am still not seeing a single quote of me saying he is a leader like Favre...or even one of me claiming Rodgers is a good leader as you say I "keep claiming".So again...please provide a link to back up either of those statements...or quit with the lies.

I have not tried to compare him to Favre in this one.

I have said over and over that leadership is lacking from this team and Favre is a great leader...pretty much the opposite of your bogus accusation.

What I have said is that I don't believe any current Packer has not tried hard this year because Aaron Rodgers is the QB and not Brett Favre.

That aspect of leadership is not one that has affected this current team.

Spin it some more if you want...Im sure you will. Just like z, you will not admit you just lied again with your claims of what I have said.

 

[sho nuff]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

I read what the players said.Not one of them are claiming they are not playing hard for Rodgers...not one.Prove they are not. You can't do that either.Get it?I see that you are stuck on spinning this thing round and round because you don't agree with me...or you are bored and just want to keep arguing.How is the proof of that accusation coming.Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

 

[sho nuff]

Here is another quote that I like....

“If you’re not giving it 100 percent, he’s going to remind you,” Colledge said. “And when he needs you to make a play, he’s going to let you know. You respect that, and it drives you to want to be better. I mean, I don’t want to be the guy that gets Brett hurt. I don’t even want to be the guy that gets Brett touched. So it pushes me every day to be a better offensive lineman.”

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21016402/page/2/

But of course sho and Jimmy want us to believe that players give 100% no matter who the QB is.

No, I want you to believe that players are still playing as hard as they did last year...even without Brett around.Yes, he makes you want to be better. Does it mean you really play harder or better? No.

Does that quote say they don't want to do better for Rodgers too? No.

Kind of my point. but you still don't understand that.

Have you ever worked with/for a great leader? Have you ever worked for a piss-poor leader? Leadership makes a huge difference in any organization, and in most situations. Period.

Yes I have worked with both. Though, none of us are multimillion dollar athletes playing for our next contracts and our careers 1. with cameras and coaches watching any more.A guy does not try hard or perform is a guy who is not around very long in the league.

Im not denying Favre was a great leader...far from it.

Oh...and posting all of those quotes that Favre is a great leader...does not show where Rodgers is not a good one...and t 2. that he is not motivating others or others are not playing hard for him.

3. Which is my point.

To compare to this year right now. Is the difference in leadership enough...I don't think so.

4. I think there are too many other missing pieces right now on this team.

1. You seem to be saying you have experience in professional sports. So who did you play for and with?2. Please post data to support your side. I posted comments from Rodgers that indicates even he thinks he is not the leader Brett was and that others need to step in and help.

3. Post information to support your point then.

4. A lot of teams can say this. It's just a fall back excuse if you ask me.

4. A fall back excuse? That there are a ton of factors leading to this team's play? Umm...my point is, supposed lack of leadership by Rodgers and him supposedly not motivating people enough is not one of the top issues on this team right now.

PROVE IT!

Prove that an intangible is not the biggest issue?Prove something that is my opinion?

Umm...yeah, I will get right on that.

Say you disagree...fine, no problem. But spin it and lie and ask for things like prove it...and you show yourself to just be one wishing to keep arguing just for the sake of arguing.

 

[Phase of the Game]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

He doesn't need a link. This entire forum is filled with posts of you doing that.

 

[hauser42]

Why did the great leader QUIT on his team??? Please explain this for those of you who are banging the Brett Favre Drum??

Wayne Levarrie is a man sitting in the booth that is paid by the Packers.

 

[sho nuff]

So...in your warped world you cannot prove people are playing just as hard for Rodgers but yet you want proof guys are not playing harder for him? Which.....is ignoring....LEADERSHIP!!Sho...you really need to quit on this because you are looking more and more foolish!!

In my world, I cannot prove people are playing just as hard for him. I believe they are.I want proof because some of you keep posting quotes about how hard people tried for Brett...which has yet to come close to disproving my original point about guys still playing hard.Say you disagree with me...I have no problem with that. But don't pull out quotes that don't even address Rodgers...then have your buddies post "good post" or "owned" icons in here and think you have proven something.How am I ignoring leadership? Im saying one certain aspect of leadership brought up in the article does not appear valid IMO. That players, IMO, have still been playing just as hard this year for Rodgers. I told you this, or something very similar very early in this thread....and you still don't get it.And to claim I am looking foolish?Hmm...there are two posters on this board who have posted complete and utter lies about what I said...now you claim Im looking foolish?I am...only for continuing to even try getting through to a few of you who will never understand simple concepts and chose to lie and spin and name call rather than even attempting to have a civil debate without that kind of crap.

 

[Phase of the Game]

Wayne Levarrie is a man sitting in the booth that is paid by the Packers.

Yes he is and he is on record stating the team is missing his leadership which probably doesn't sit well with Thompson.

 

[sho nuff]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

He doesn't need a link. This entire forum is filled with posts of you doing that.

Then you should be able to find just one post where I admit to diminishing him.Not one that you claim is me doing it...but one where I admit to doing so. That was his accusation.And now you are jumping in too.And you still have an accusation to prove as well, how is that one coming.Or the two of you just admit you made it up. Its that simple.

 

[Phase of the Game]

So...in your warped world you cannot prove people are playing just as hard for Rodgers but yet you want proof guys are not playing harder for him? Which.....is ignoring....LEADERSHIP!!Sho...you really need to quit on this because you are looking more and more foolish!!

In my world, I cannot prove people are playing just as hard for him. I believe they are.I want proof because some of you keep posting quotes about how hard people tried for Brett...which has yet to come close to disproving my original point about guys still playing hard.Say you disagree with me...I have no problem with that. But don't pull out quotes that don't even address Rodgers...then have your buddies post "good post" or "owned" icons in here and think you have proven something.How am I ignoring leadership? Im saying one certain aspect of leadership brought up in the article does not appear valid IMO. That players, IMO, have still been playing just as hard this year for Rodgers. I told you this, or something very similar very early in this thread....and you still don't get it.And to claim I am looking foolish?Hmm...there are two posters on this board who have posted complete and utter lies about what I said...now you claim Im looking foolish?I am...only for continuing to even try getting through to a few of you who will never understand simple concepts and chose to lie and spin and name call rather than even attempting to have a civil debate without that kind of crap.

You are full of sheeeeet

 

[sho nuff]

So...in your warped world you cannot prove people are playing just as hard for Rodgers but yet you want proof guys are not playing harder for him? Which.....is ignoring....LEADERSHIP!!Sho...you really need to quit on this because you are looking more and more foolish!!

In my world, I cannot prove people are playing just as hard for him. I believe they are.I want proof because some of you keep posting quotes about how hard people tried for Brett...which has yet to come close to disproving my original point about guys still playing hard.Say you disagree with me...I have no problem with that. But don't pull out quotes that don't even address Rodgers...then have your buddies post "good post" or "owned" icons in here and think you have proven something.How am I ignoring leadership? Im saying one certain aspect of leadership brought up in the article does not appear valid IMO. That players, IMO, have still been playing just as hard this year for Rodgers. I told you this, or something very similar very early in this thread....and you still don't get it.And to claim I am looking foolish?Hmm...there are two posters on this board who have posted complete and utter lies about what I said...now you claim Im looking foolish?I am...only for continuing to even try getting through to a few of you who will never understand simple concepts and chose to lie and spin and name call rather than even attempting to have a civil debate without that kind of crap.

You are full of sheeeeet

No, Im dead serious...and you just proved my point about your inability to have a civil debate.Thanks for showing your level of maturity.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

sho nuff - I'm not sure anyone here is saying "nobody on the Packers is trying hard this year". It's a bit more nuanced of an issue.

Favre was a motivating force on this team, a leader on this team, simply because he was Brett Favre, living legend. His mere presence lifted his teammates to a higher level of performance.

Rodgers is playing well, and based on his performance to date, he should grow into a solid QB and probably even a good leader. But he isn't there yet.

If you put all of this together, it's not a stretch to say that SOME of this team's underperformance in 2008 is due to an overall lack of leadership. Is it enough to explain the fall to 5-9? Probably not. Has it made a difference in 2-4 games this year? Sure, possibly. Is it reasonable to think that there has been no material difference without Favre? Not really.

 

[Phase of the Game]

So...in your warped world you cannot prove people are playing just as hard for Rodgers but yet you want proof guys are not playing harder for him? Which.....is ignoring....LEADERSHIP!!Sho...you really need to quit on this because you are looking more and more foolish!!

In my world, I cannot prove people are playing just as hard for him. I believe they are.I want proof because some of you keep posting quotes about how hard people tried for Brett...which has yet to come close to disproving my original point about guys still playing hard.Say you disagree with me...I have no problem with that. But don't pull out quotes that don't even address Rodgers...then have your buddies post "good post" or "owned" icons in here and think you have proven something.How am I ignoring leadership? Im saying one certain aspect of leadership brought up in the article does not appear valid IMO. That players, IMO, have still been playing just as hard this year for Rodgers. I told you this, or something very similar very early in this thread....and you still don't get it.And to claim I am looking foolish?Hmm...there are two posters on this board who have posted complete and utter lies about what I said...now you claim Im looking foolish?I am...only for continuing to even try getting through to a few of you who will never understand simple concepts and chose to lie and spin and name call rather than even attempting to have a civil debate without that kind of crap.

You are full of sheeeeet

No, Im dead serious...and you just proved my point about your inability to have a civil debate.Thanks for showing your level of maturity.

Sho, I am serious too. You try to prove your point over and over and you will spin and spin and do whatever you can to diminish what Favre meant to the Packers. You come with with lame examples and then claim they are "for effect" LOL!!! It is so much fun to toy with you and watch you react.

 

[sho nuff]

sho nuff - I'm not sure anyone here is saying "nobody on the Packers is trying hard this year". It's a bit more nuanced of an issue.

Favre was a motivating force on this team, a leader on this team, simply because he was Brett Favre, living legend. His mere presence lifted his teammates to a higher level of performance.

Rodgers is playing well, and based on his performance to date, he should grow into a solid QB and probably even a good leader. But he isn't there yet.

If you put all of this together, it's not a stretch to say that SOME of this team's underperformance in 2008 is due to an overall lack of leadership. Is it enough to explain the fall to 5-9? Probably not. Has it made a difference in 2-4 games this year? Sure, possibly. Is it reasonable to think that there has been no material difference without Favre? Not really.

My first post on the topic on page one...2nd post in the thread...first addressing the issue.http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=9686152

"Its a decent article...and yes, some of what Favre did could have helped some with this team.

But, and of course its an opinion...it would not have been enough with this team.

Does anyone think this defense was playing any less hard today trying to win in the end?

Does anyone think Grant and Kuhn were not trying as hard to get that first down on 3 straight runs today?"

Right off the bat, I admit, yes, some of what Favre did could help this team (I guess that was me trying to diminish what Favre did.

The response first came from phase calling that classic sho nonsense.

Which is when I asked him if he thought the D was not playing as hard or that they would have played harder for Favre.

I was then called ignorant...and then stinger did his usual

It has gone on for way too long from there...all because people have spun what I said, lied about what I said, and continue to post things that don't even address the point I was making about that one part of the article.

They took it as me ignoring leadership, saying I said Rodgers is as good of a leader as Favre, diminishing Favre, bashing Favre...and so on. None of which I was doing.

I pointed to a specific part of the article and disagreed with it.

And a few in here could not handle that.

And there are not too many people in here claiming there has been no material difference without Favre.

There has been. Not enough to turn this into a championship team though IMO>

 

[sho nuff]

So...in your warped world you cannot prove people are playing just as hard for Rodgers but yet you want proof guys are not playing harder for him? Which.....is ignoring....LEADERSHIP!!Sho...you really need to quit on this because you are looking more and more foolish!!

In my world, I cannot prove people are playing just as hard for him. I believe they are.I want proof because some of you keep posting quotes about how hard people tried for Brett...which has yet to come close to disproving my original point about guys still playing hard.Say you disagree with me...I have no problem with that. But don't pull out quotes that don't even address Rodgers...then have your buddies post "good post" or "owned" icons in here and think you have proven something.How am I ignoring leadership? Im saying one certain aspect of leadership brought up in the article does not appear valid IMO. That players, IMO, have still been playing just as hard this year for Rodgers. I told you this, or something very similar very early in this thread....and you still don't get it.And to claim I am looking foolish?Hmm...there are two posters on this board who have posted complete and utter lies about what I said...now you claim Im looking foolish?I am...only for continuing to even try getting through to a few of you who will never understand simple concepts and chose to lie and spin and name call rather than even attempting to have a civil debate without that kind of crap.

You are full of sheeeeet

No, Im dead serious...and you just proved my point about your inability to have a civil debate.Thanks for showing your level of maturity.

Sho, I am serious too. You try to prove your point over and over and you will spin and spin and do whatever you can to diminish what Favre meant to the Packers. You come with with lame examples and then claim they are "for effect" LOL!!! It is so much fun to toy with you and watch you react.

Read my 2nd post in this thread again.I give Favre credit right off the bat. And you started in on me right off the bat.The one spinning here again is you. And lyingn too I might add.To toy with me? By spinning and lying.Yeah...nice job...pretty sure thats a good way to get yourself some time off from the board if toying includes the childish stuff you have been posting.Like I said...grow up. its tiresome watching you flop around just trying to get me to react.You claim its making me look foolish...but you look that way quite a bit without any help from me...

 

[zDragon]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

I read what the players said.Not one of them are claiming they are not playing hard for Rodgers...not one.Prove they are not. You can't do that either.Get it?I see that you are stuck on spinning this thing round and round because you don't agree with me...or you are bored and just want to keep arguing.How is the proof of that accusation coming.Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

I might be able to prove it to you but have provided enough evidence to lead one to that conclusion. I have yet see you post anything supporting your side.I am bored but am not spinning at all. Still waiting to see your side supported. Like I said before another poster already did that so why would I waste my time. Maybe you should prove you are not.

 

[zDragon]

Here is another quote that I like....

“If you’re not giving it 100 percent, he’s going to remind you,” Colledge said. “And when he needs you to make a play, he’s going to let you know. You respect that, and it drives you to want to be better. I mean, I don’t want to be the guy that gets Brett hurt. I don’t even want to be the guy that gets Brett touched. So it pushes me every day to be a better offensive lineman.”

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21016402/page/2/

But of course sho and Jimmy want us to believe that players give 100% no matter who the QB is.

No, I want you to believe that players are still playing as hard as they did last year...even without Brett around.Yes, he makes you want to be better. Does it mean you really play harder or better? No.

Does that quote say they don't want to do better for Rodgers too? No.

Kind of my point. but you still don't understand that.

Have you ever worked with/for a great leader? Have you ever worked for a piss-poor leader? Leadership makes a huge difference in any organization, and in most situations. Period.

Yes I have worked with both. Though, none of us are multimillion dollar athletes playing for our next contracts and our careers 1. with cameras and coaches watching any more.A guy does not try hard or perform is a guy who is not around very long in the league.

Im not denying Favre was a great leader...far from it.

Oh...and posting all of those quotes that Favre is a great leader...does not show where Rodgers is not a good one...and t 2. that he is not motivating others or others are not playing hard for him.

3. Which is my point.

To compare to this year right now. Is the difference in leadership enough...I don't think so.

4. I think there are too many other missing pieces right now on this team.

1. You seem to be saying you have experience in professional sports. So who did you play for and with?2. Please post data to support your side. I posted comments from Rodgers that indicates even he thinks he is not the leader Brett was and that others need to step in and help.

3. Post information to support your point then.

4. A lot of teams can say this. It's just a fall back excuse if you ask me.

4. A fall back excuse? That there are a ton of factors leading to this team's play? Umm...my point is, supposed lack of leadership by Rodgers and him supposedly not motivating people enough is not one of the top issues on this team right now.

PROVE IT!

Prove that an intangible is not the biggest issue?Prove something that is my opinion?

Umm...yeah, I will get right on that.

Say you disagree...fine, no problem. But spin it and lie and ask for things like prove it...and you show yourself to just be one wishing to keep arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Provide supporting information for your side. I've seen plenty to indicate Favre makes a differnce but nothing the other way.

 

[zDragon]

Why did the great leader QUIT on his team??? Please explain this for those of you who are banging the Brett Favre Drum??Wayne Levarrie is a man sitting in the booth that is paid by the Packers.

I'm not beating his drum but he retired and changed his mind. Big difference between that and quitting his team in my opinion.And you are?

 

[zDragon]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.

Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.

Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

He doesn't need a link. This entire forum is filled with posts of you doing that.

Then you should be able to find just one post where I admit to diminishing him.Not one that you claim is me doing it...but one where I admit to doing so. That was his accusation.

And now you are jumping in too.

And you still have an accusation to prove as well, how is that one coming.

Or the two of you just admit you made it up. Its that simple.

I am not diminishing what he did or meant to the Packers other than to diminish the importance some of you have put on it.

You are all making him out to be a messiah and he simply was not that.

There you go. Now if you could find my post where I called Favre the messiah I'd appreciate it.Oh yeah. I already saw you try and spin out of this comment. You are trying to diminish Favre in the eyes of others to make him appear to them as you see him. Seems like you are trying to diminish him to me.

Once again I'd like to see where I called Favre the messiah. Seems like a lie you made up about me.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Call me crazy, but it doesn't sound like any of you are that far apart...with your actual beliefs. Everything going on in here is a combo of macho posturing and a simple pissing match.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Call me crazy, but it doesn't sound like any of you are that far apart...with your actual beliefs. Everything going on in here is a combo of macho posturing and a simple pissing match.

You're crazy. This thread is a simple macho match and a combo pissing posturing. Biiiiiig difference.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Call me crazy, but it doesn't sound like any of you are that far apart...with your actual beliefs. Everything going on in here is a combo of macho posturing and a simple pissing match.

You're crazy. This thread is a simple macho match and a combo pissing posturing. Biiiiiig difference.

LOL.

 

[Sabertooth]

Ok, so let's try to quantify this leadership thing. Brett being a quitter notwithstanding, how many actual points does the team score with a better leader. How many less points does the defense allow with the mere presence of Brett "I don't think I want to play anymore" Favre on the sidelines rooting them on to victory.

More sho like solid analysis from a Favre hater.

Great Answer! So....how many points can I put you down for? 1ppg for leadership? 10? Maybe the defense allows 4 less ppg? Throw me a number. Shoot. Shoot me a number. 7? You like 7?

Throw me a number, chum. How many points? How much leadership did Faneca bring to the offensive line? How many points was that worth? How many points did the Packers lose when Favre left? If Favre had been there for the Jacksonville game, does Northcutt get open right down the seem with the defense running around like a bunch of crazed apes?

Or how about in the New Orleans game, could Favre have led Al Harris to catch Colston?

Maybe Mason Crosby nails that kick in the dome if he looks to the sideline and Brett silently looks him in the eye and does this.

That's the playoffs right there. They win those three, and it's on baby.

 

[sho nuff]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

I read what the players said.Not one of them are claiming they are not playing hard for Rodgers...not one.Prove they are not. You can't do that either.Get it?I see that you are stuck on spinning this thing round and round because you don't agree with me...or you are bored and just want to keep arguing.How is the proof of that accusation coming.Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

I might be able to prove it to you but have provided enough evidence to lead one to that conclusion. I have yet see you post anything supporting your side.I am bored but am not spinning at all. Still waiting to see your side supported. Like I said before another poster already did that so why would I waste my time. Maybe you should prove you are not.

My side is that there is no evidence suggesting players are not playing hard because of Rodgers. Thats the point.I posted an opinion on page one...what kind of support do you need.This thread here proves my point...there is not one bit of evidence to suggest players are playing less hard simply because of the QB.And no...no poster has already proven your bogus accusation.It should be easy...find my quote in this thread where I admit I diminish Favre. You won't do it...because you can't. Because your claim was a complete and total lie.You can keep repeating that another poster did...that is just lie #2.

 

[sho nuff]

Here is another quote that I like....

“If you’re not giving it 100 percent, he’s going to remind you,” Colledge said. “And when he needs you to make a play, he’s going to let you know. You respect that, and it drives you to want to be better. I mean, I don’t want to be the guy that gets Brett hurt. I don’t even want to be the guy that gets Brett touched. So it pushes me every day to be a better offensive lineman.”

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21016402/page/2/

But of course sho and Jimmy want us to believe that players give 100% no matter who the QB is.

No, I want you to believe that players are still playing as hard as they did last year...even without Brett around.Yes, he makes you want to be better. Does it mean you really play harder or better? No.

Does that quote say they don't want to do better for Rodgers too? No.

Kind of my point. but you still don't understand that.

Have you ever worked with/for a great leader? Have you ever worked for a piss-poor leader? Leadership makes a huge difference in any organization, and in most situations. Period.

Yes I have worked with both. Though, none of us are multimillion dollar athletes playing for our next contracts and our careers 1. with cameras and coaches watching any more.A guy does not try hard or perform is a guy who is not around very long in the league.

Im not denying Favre was a great leader...far from it.

Oh...and posting all of those quotes that Favre is a great leader...does not show where Rodgers is not a good one...and t 2. that he is not motivating others or others are not playing hard for him.

3. Which is my point.

To compare to this year right now. Is the difference in leadership enough...I don't think so.

4. I think there are too many other missing pieces right now on this team.

1. You seem to be saying you have experience in professional sports. So who did you play for and with?2. Please post data to support your side. I posted comments from Rodgers that indicates even he thinks he is not the leader Brett was and that others need to step in and help.

3. Post information to support your point then.

4. A lot of teams can say this. It's just a fall back excuse if you ask me.

4. A fall back excuse? That there are a ton of factors leading to this team's play? Umm...my point is, supposed lack of leadership by Rodgers and him supposedly not motivating people enough is not one of the top issues on this team right now.

PROVE IT!

Prove that an intangible is not the biggest issue?Prove something that is my opinion?

Umm...yeah, I will get right on that.

Say you disagree...fine, no problem. But spin it and lie and ask for things like prove it...and you show yourself to just be one wishing to keep arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Provide supporting information for your side. I've seen plenty to indicate Favre makes a differnce but nothing the other way.

AGAIN...the other way? Where I claim that Favre did not make a difference. From my first post on the topic I have admitted that. I have said it over and over again. Yet you again are asking me to prove something I never claimed. And I have never stated Rodgers leadership is making a difference.I have simply questioned whether guys are not playing as hard for him as they did for Favre...and there has not been one shred of evidence posted to suggest that guys played harder for Favre than they are for Rodgers. That is my side. WHat about that do you still not understand? How many times do I have to say it before it sinks into your head?

 

[sho nuff]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.

Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.

Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

He doesn't need a link. This entire forum is filled with posts of you doing that.

Then you should be able to find just one post where I admit to diminishing him.Not one that you claim is me doing it...but one where I admit to doing so. That was his accusation.

And now you are jumping in too.

And you still have an accusation to prove as well, how is that one coming.

Or the two of you just admit you made it up. Its that simple.

I am not diminishing what he did or meant to the Packers other than to diminish the importance some of you have put on it.

You are all making him out to be a messiah and he simply was not that.

There you go. Now if you could find my post where I called Favre the messiah I'd appreciate it.Oh yeah. I already saw you try and spin out of this comment. You are trying to diminish Favre in the eyes of others to make him appear to them as you see him. Seems like you are trying to diminish him to me.

Once again I'd like to see where I called Favre the messiah. Seems like a lie you made up about me.

Yup...there you go...you provided exactly what I said you would, a quote from me saying I diminish the importance that some of you have put on it. I admit that. What you claimed was that I admitted to diminishing what he actually did. Its not spin...its reality of what I said. Claiming that quote meant I diminished Favre is what is spin.

"seems like I am trying to diminish him to you...great...does not mean I am.

It means I question the opinion of how important some of the leadership qualities are...not that I question his leadership...but the opinion of some on this board. Nothing more. Taking it as anything else (as you and others have) is what is complete and total spin by definition.

I said you all (so not just you) are making him out to be the messiah...not that you called him that. Again...spin by you to try and argue.

 

[sho nuff]

Call me crazy, but it doesn't sound like any of you are that far apart...with your actual beliefs. Everything going on in here is a combo of macho posturing and a simple pissing match.

I agree that I don't think we are that far apart.I don't believe its quite as important as some of them do...but because it was me posting the disagreement and not another poster (like say you had done so), it turned into this.Partially my fault for continuing to go on...but for sure the fault of others for getting bent out of shape simply because the poster disagreeing says Sho Nuff.Of course, that is my opinion, so a few of you can save the prove its...other than several others have posted similar things and those posts go completely unnoticed.Also, save the "whining about people posting to me" comments, Im not doing that at all. Just pointing out that several posters on this board appear to worry much more about a post if I am the one posting it...feeling the need to argue with me more so than actually arguing the topic.

 

[Stinger Ray]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.

Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.

Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

He doesn't need a link. This entire forum is filled with posts of you doing that.

Then you should be able to find just one post where I admit to diminishing him.Not one that you claim is me doing it...but one where I admit to doing so. That was his accusation.

And now you are jumping in too.

And you still have an accusation to prove as well, how is that one coming.

Or the two of you just admit you made it up. Its that simple.

I am not diminishing what he did or meant to the Packers other than to diminish the importance some of you have put on it.

You are all making him out to be a messiah and he simply was not that.

There you go. Now if you could find my post where I called Favre the messiah I'd appreciate it.Oh yeah. I already saw you try and spin out of this comment. You are trying to diminish Favre in the eyes of others to make him appear to them as you see him. Seems like you are trying to diminish him to me.

Once again I'd like to see where I called Favre the messiah. Seems like a lie you made up about me.

I said you all (so not just you) are making him out to be the messiah

Give me a break. No one has said that or thinks that. As I said before that is typical of the Favre detractors(you are one) to throw that out.And you all are making him out to be some run of the mill, average QB, that doesn't do anything to elevate the play of the players around him.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Here is another quote that I like....

“If you’re not giving it 100 percent, he’s going to remind you,” Colledge said. “And when he needs you to make a play, he’s going to let you know. You respect that, and it drives you to want to be better. I mean, I don’t want to be the guy that gets Brett hurt. I don’t even want to be the guy that gets Brett touched. So it pushes me every day to be a better offensive lineman.”

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21016402/page/2/

But of course sho and Jimmy want us to believe that players give 100% no matter who the QB is.

No, I want you to believe that players are still playing as hard as they did last year...even without Brett around.Yes, he makes you want to be better. Does it mean you really play harder or better? No.

Does that quote say they don't want to do better for Rodgers too? No.

Kind of my point. but you still don't understand that.

Have you ever worked with/for a great leader? Have you ever worked for a piss-poor leader? Leadership makes a huge difference in any organization, and in most situations. Period.

Yes I have worked with both. Though, none of us are multimillion dollar athletes playing for our next contracts and our careers 1. with cameras and coaches watching any more.A guy does not try hard or perform is a guy who is not around very long in the league.

Im not denying Favre was a great leader...far from it.

Oh...and posting all of those quotes that Favre is a great leader...does not show where Rodgers is not a good one...and t 2. that he is not motivating others or others are not playing hard for him.

3. Which is my point.

To compare to this year right now. Is the difference in leadership enough...I don't think so.

4. I think there are too many other missing pieces right now on this team.

1. You seem to be saying you have experience in professional sports. So who did you play for and with?2. Please post data to support your side. I posted comments from Rodgers that indicates even he thinks he is not the leader Brett was and that others need to step in and help.

3. Post information to support your point then.

4. A lot of teams can say this. It's just a fall back excuse if you ask me.

4. A fall back excuse? That there are a ton of factors leading to this team's play? Umm...my point is, supposed lack of leadership by Rodgers and him supposedly not motivating people enough is not one of the top issues on this team right now.

PROVE IT!

Prove that an intangible is not the biggest issue?Prove something that is my opinion?

Umm...yeah, I will get right on that.

Say you disagree...fine, no problem. But spin it and lie and ask for things like prove it...and you show yourself to just be one wishing to keep arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Provide supporting information for your side. I've seen plenty to indicate Favre makes a differnce but nothing the other way.

I have simply questioned whether guys are not playing as hard for him as they did for Favre...and there has not been one shred of evidence posted to suggest that guys played harder for Favre than they are for Rodgers. That is my side. WHat about that do you still not understand? How many times do I have to say it before it sinks into your head?

This is where you fail. Whether or not a player trys hard doesn't take into consideration the leadership factor which Rodgers has admitted is missing. It is your attempt to try and diminish Favre and equate him to Rodgers. It isn't working.You know DARN well the evidence will be hard to come up with.......do you really think we can find a player admitting...."I don't play as hard for Aaron as I did for Brett".

 

[Stinger Ray]

Ok, so let's try to quantify this leadership thing. Brett being a quitter notwithstanding, how many actual points does the team score with a better leader. How many less points does the defense allow with the mere presence of Brett "I don't think I want to play anymore" Favre on the sidelines rooting them on to victory.

More sho like solid analysis from a Favre hater.

Great Answer! So....how many points can I put you down for? 1ppg for leadership? 10? Maybe the defense allows 4 less ppg? Throw me a number. Shoot. Shoot me a number. 7? You like 7?

Throw me a number, chum. How many points? How much leadership did Faneca bring to the offensive line? How many points was that worth? How many points did the Packers lose when Favre left? If Favre had been there for the Jacksonville game, does Northcutt get open right down the seem with the defense running around like a bunch of crazed apes?

Or how about in the New Orleans game, could Favre have led Al Harris to catch Colston?

Maybe Mason Crosby nails that kick in the dome if he looks to the sideline and Brett silently looks him in the eye and does this.

That's the playoffs right there. They win those three, and it's on baby.

This is a perfect example of the anit-Favre crowd having no grasp that leadership is an intangible so they fall back to the..."uh......so me how to measure it?" or defensive plays that they think make their point. If you want to do that then go look at the offensive mistakes this year and see what impact those had. Poor communication on routes with the receivers and Rodgers, wrong formations, not realizing the hot reads, calling audibles, holding the ball too long, using timeouts when the team can't get into the right formation, redzone inneffiency, conservative play calling, etc etc.

 

[sho nuff]

Give me a break. No one has said that or thinks that. As I said before that is typical of the Favre detractors(you are one) to throw that out.And you all are making him out to be some run of the mill, average QB, that doesn't do anything to elevate the play of the players around him.

And give me a break...I have not claimed that anyone said that...nor do I know what the heck people think.But this...Favre makes XXX over and over definitely leads to the thought that plenty here are making him out to be more than he was.Detractor? From your opinion of him I sure am.Run of the mill average QB?By saying he is a great player, great leader, the team is missing that, he is top 5 all time?And the does not do anything to elevate players around him? Funny, I have said several times in this thread he does that. What I have also questioned is that there is no evidence to suggest that Aaron Rodgers does not do this too, or that players are not trying hard because FAvre is no longer around.

 

[sho nuff]

This is where you fail. Whether or not a player trys hard doesn't take into consideration the leadership factor which Rodgers has admitted is missing. It is your attempt to try and diminish Favre and equate him to Rodgers. It isn't working.You know DARN well the evidence will be hard to come up with.......do you really think we can find a player admitting...."I don't play as hard for Aaron as I did for Brett".

I have said the team is missing the leadership...I have disagreed with one portion of the leadership trait...nothing more.I have not tried to equate he and Rodgers whatsoever. I have tried to say that I don't see players not trying this year because of who the QB is.Do you disagree with that? Do you think players are not trying as hard? (Simple yes or no to those questions would suffice).I know darn well I have seen no evidence to suggest anyone is not trying as hard. WHich is my entire point that some of you after 9 pages are still not understanding despite the fact that I have had to repeat it several times because you all keep twisting it into me ingnoring leadership or equating Rodgers and Favre.Again...its not to diminish Favre...its just that I disagree the impact it had in that aspect of leadership was as great as some of you think...and that the lack of leadership, while a factor, is not enough for this team and that this team is lacking much more as well that is keeping them from being a championship caliber team.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Give me a break. No one has said that or thinks that. As I said before that is typical of the Favre detractors(you are one) to throw that out.And you all are making him out to be some run of the mill, average QB, that doesn't do anything to elevate the play of the players around him.

And give me a break...I have not claimed that anyone said that...nor do I know what the heck people think.But this...Favre makes XXX over and over definitely leads to the thought that plenty here are making him out to be more than he was.Detractor? From your opinion of him I sure am.Run of the mill average QB?By saying he is a great player, great leader, the team is missing that, he is top 5 all time?And the does not do anything to elevate players around him? Funny, I have said several times in this thread he does that. What I have also questioned is that there is no evidence to suggest that Aaron Rodgers does not do this too, or that players are not trying hard because FAvre is no longer around.

If you don't claim that anyone said it then don't write it. And it isn't just me that thinks you are a Favre detractor. You are known for being one. And again.....please stop with the "no evidence that players don't play hard for Rodgers". What do you think you will find? You will not find a player that would ever admit that. Lastly, there is a huge difference between players player hard and players making plays.

 

[Sabertooth]

Ok, so let's try to quantify this leadership thing. Brett being a quitter notwithstanding, how many actual points does the team score with a better leader. How many less points does the defense allow with the mere presence of Brett "I don't think I want to play anymore" Favre on the sidelines rooting them on to victory.

More sho like solid analysis from a Favre hater.

Great Answer! So....how many points can I put you down for? 1ppg for leadership? 10? Maybe the defense allows 4 less ppg? Throw me a number. Shoot. Shoot me a number. 7? You like 7?

Throw me a number, chum. How many points? How much leadership did Faneca bring to the offensive line? How many points was that worth? How many points did the Packers lose when Favre left? If Favre had been there for the Jacksonville game, does Northcutt get open right down the seem with the defense running around like a bunch of crazed apes?

Or how about in the New Orleans game, could Favre have led Al Harris to catch Colston?

Maybe Mason Crosby nails that kick in the dome if he looks to the sideline and Brett silently looks him in the eye and does this.

That's the playoffs right there. They win those three, and it's on baby.

This is a perfect example of the anit-Favre crowd having no grasp that leadership is an intangible so they fall back to the..."uh......so me how to measure it?" or defensive plays that they think make their point. If you want to do that then go look at the offensive mistakes this year and see what impact those had. Poor communication on routes with the receivers and Rodgers, wrong formations, not realizing the hot reads, calling audibles, holding the ball too long, using timeouts when the team can't get into the right formation, redzone inneffiency, conservative play calling, etc etc.

So you are talking out of your ### then? Got it.

 

[sho nuff]

Give me a break. No one has said that or thinks that. As I said before that is typical of the Favre detractors(you are one) to throw that out.And you all are making him out to be some run of the mill, average QB, that doesn't do anything to elevate the play of the players around him.

And give me a break...I have not claimed that anyone said that...nor do I know what the heck people think.But this...Favre makes XXX over and over definitely leads to the thought that plenty here are making him out to be more than he was.Detractor? From your opinion of him I sure am.Run of the mill average QB?By saying he is a great player, great leader, the team is missing that, he is top 5 all time?And the does not do anything to elevate players around him? Funny, I have said several times in this thread he does that. What I have also questioned is that there is no evidence to suggest that Aaron Rodgers does not do this too, or that players are not trying hard because FAvre is no longer around.

If you don't claim that anyone said it then don't write it. And it isn't just me that thinks you are a Favre detractor. You are known for being one. And again.....please stop with the "no evidence that players don't play hard for Rodgers". What do you think you will find? You will not find a player that would ever admit that. Lastly, there is a huge difference between players player hard and players making plays.

Umm...I did not write what you said. I claimed and wrote that people are acting as if he was the messiah. I meant exactly what I wrote. Not your spin of it.I am known by a select few as a Favre detractor...sorry if I don't take the opinion of me from you and those others as anything more than uniformed based on your idea of me based on my posting. I don't detract from him. All time favorite player, top 5 all time QB in the league. Great great player. But not as great as some of you are trying to make him out to be. We disagree with what we think the guy could have done this year in GB. That does not make me a Favre hater or dectractor any more than it makes you a Favre lover.Please stop with stating a fact? Why should I? Its been my point that has gotten spun all around by a few of you since page one. I will keep restating it because you all keep acting as if I am saying Favre was not a good leader and Rodgers is. Something I have never actually come close to even insinuating. If you all would quit the lie, spin, and twist tactics with me, I would not have to keep repeating my posts.Its not just about finding a player to admit it...watch the games. I have seen nothing that looks like guys just giving up and not trying.As for your last line...true. Did Brett Favre make them make plays? Because I think making plays is pretty darn important right now. I hate the "we are 6 plays away from being x-x rather than 5-9" arguments that some do make (note: Im not saying anyone on this board have made that argument...but I have heard and read it being made).But there are some several key plays that have lead to losses (and again, there are a ton of plays every game that could change it on both sides of the ball, but some are more visible because of when they happen...for example, the Chargers/Broncos game and the Cutler "fumble" call that would have ended it...because of when it happened, it looks huge, but so many other plays also determined the outcome of that game).

 

[zDragon]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

I read what the players said.Not one of them are claiming they are not playing hard for Rodgers...not one.Prove they are not. You can't do that either.Get it?I see that you are stuck on spinning this thing round and round because you don't agree with me...or you are bored and just want to keep arguing.How is the proof of that accusation coming.Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

I might be able to prove it to you but have provided enough evidence to lead one to that conclusion. I have yet see you post anything supporting your side.I am bored but am not spinning at all. Still waiting to see your side supported. Like I said before another poster already did that so why would I waste my time. Maybe you should prove you are not.

My side is that there is no evidence suggesting players are not playing hard because of Rodgers. Thats the point.I posted an opinion on page one...what kind of support do you need.This thread here proves my point...there is not one bit of evidence to suggest players are playing less hard simply because of the QB.And no...no poster has already proven your bogus accusation.It should be easy...find my quote in this thread where I admit I diminish Favre. You won't do it...because you can't. Because your claim was a complete and total lie.You can keep repeating that another poster did...that is just lie #2.

I thought your point was players were playing the just as hard regardless of Brett being there or Rodgers be the QB. I didn't realize your point was you have nothing to support they are not.Fine you have no evidence to even start to back up your opinion. No need to be in the conversation any more then.I just did that myself since you seem to like bringing it up. I'll check for your spin there.Oh. yeah I'd like to see where I called Favre the messiah by the way.

 

[zDragon]

Here is another quote that I like....

“If you’re not giving it 100 percent, he’s going to remind you,” Colledge said. “And when he needs you to make a play, he’s going to let you know. You respect that, and it drives you to want to be better. I mean, I don’t want to be the guy that gets Brett hurt. I don’t even want to be the guy that gets Brett touched. So it pushes me every day to be a better offensive lineman.”

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21016402/page/2/

But of course sho and Jimmy want us to believe that players give 100% no matter who the QB is.

No, I want you to believe that players are still playing as hard as they did last year...even without Brett around.Yes, he makes you want to be better. Does it mean you really play harder or better? No.

Does that quote say they don't want to do better for Rodgers too? No.

Kind of my point. but you still don't understand that.

Have you ever worked with/for a great leader? Have you ever worked for a piss-poor leader? Leadership makes a huge difference in any organization, and in most situations. Period.

Yes I have worked with both. Though, none of us are multimillion dollar athletes playing for our next contracts and our careers 1. with cameras and coaches watching any more.A guy does not try hard or perform is a guy who is not around very long in the league.

Im not denying Favre was a great leader...far from it.

Oh...and posting all of those quotes that Favre is a great leader...does not show where Rodgers is not a good one...and t 2. that he is not motivating others or others are not playing hard for him.

3. Which is my point.

To compare to this year right now. Is the difference in leadership enough...I don't think so.

4. I think there are too many other missing pieces right now on this team.

1. You seem to be saying you have experience in professional sports. So who did you play for and with?2. Please post data to support your side. I posted comments from Rodgers that indicates even he thinks he is not the leader Brett was and that others need to step in and help.

3. Post information to support your point then.

4. A lot of teams can say this. It's just a fall back excuse if you ask me.

4. A fall back excuse? That there are a ton of factors leading to this team's play? Umm...my point is, supposed lack of leadership by Rodgers and him supposedly not motivating people enough is not one of the top issues on this team right now.

PROVE IT!

Prove that an intangible is not the biggest issue?Prove something that is my opinion?

Umm...yeah, I will get right on that.

Say you disagree...fine, no problem. But spin it and lie and ask for things like prove it...and you show yourself to just be one wishing to keep arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Provide supporting information for your side. I've seen plenty to indicate Favre makes a differnce but nothing the other way.

AGAIN...the other way? Where I claim that Favre did not make a difference. From my first post on the topic I have admitted that. I have said it over and over again. Yet you again are asking me to prove something I never claimed. And I have never stated Rodgers leadership is making a difference.I have simply questioned whether guys are not playing as hard for him as they did for Favre...and there has not been one shred of evidence posted to suggest that guys played harder for Favre than they are for Rodgers. That is my side. WHat about that do you still not understand? How many times do I have to say it before it sinks into your head?

Seems different from what you posted in your prior pots. I thought it was about evidence of it not questioning it. If your questioning it shouldn't you have some support material that led you to start questioning it?

 

[GreenNGold]

Here is the proof you guys are looking for:

Favre's leadership is 1011.3

Rodger's leadership is 876.4

This means Favre is worth about 4.18 wins more per season than Rodgers at their current values, as every 32.27 in difference = 1 win.

 

[Mario Kart]

 

[zDragon]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.

Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.

Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

He doesn't need a link. This entire forum is filled with posts of you doing that.

Then you should be able to find just one post where I admit to diminishing him.Not one that you claim is me doing it...but one where I admit to doing so. That was his accusation.

And now you are jumping in too.

And you still have an accusation to prove as well, how is that one coming.

Or the two of you just admit you made it up. Its that simple.

I am not diminishing what he did or meant to the Packers other than to diminish the importance some of you have put on it.

You are all making him out to be a messiah and he simply was not that.

There you go. Now if you could find my post where I called Favre the messiah I'd appreciate it.Oh yeah. I already saw you try and spin out of this comment. You are trying to diminish Favre in the eyes of others to make him appear to them as you see him. Seems like you are trying to diminish him to me.

Once again I'd like to see where I called Favre the messiah. Seems like a lie you made up about me.

Yup...there you go...you provided exactly what I said you would, a quote from me saying I diminish the importance that some of you have put on it. I admit that. What you claimed was that I admitted to diminishing what he actually did. Its not spin...its reality of what I said. Claiming that quote meant I diminished Favre is what is spin.

"seems like I am trying to diminish him to you...great...does not mean I am.

It means I question the opinion of how important some of the leadership qualities are...not that I question his leadership...but the opinion of some on this board. Nothing more. Taking it as anything else (as you and others have) is what is complete and total spin by definition.

I said you all (so not just you) are making him out to be the messiah...not that you called him that. Again...spin by you to try and argue.

Just more of your spin. You asked for the proof now your just denying it when it's right there.So not just me but not me?

Show me one post where I'm making him out to be the messiah then. You seem to like calling people liars so back up your claim that "I'm making him out to be the messiah".

 

[parasaurolophus]

Here is the proof you guys are looking for: Favre's leadership is 1011.3Rodger's leadership is 876.4 This means Favre is worth about 4.18 wins more per season than Rodgers at their current values, as every 32.27 in difference = 1 win.

I see you also use the SKCUSTT Leadership model. I think you need to recheck your figures though. I came up with 866.4 for Rodgers. I ran the formulas three times so I think I am correct.

 

[sho nuff]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

I read what the players said.Not one of them are claiming they are not playing hard for Rodgers...not one.Prove they are not. You can't do that either.Get it?I see that you are stuck on spinning this thing round and round because you don't agree with me...or you are bored and just want to keep arguing.How is the proof of that accusation coming.Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

I might be able to prove it to you but have provided enough evidence to lead one to that conclusion. I have yet see you post anything supporting your side.I am bored but am not spinning at all. Still waiting to see your side supported. Like I said before another poster already did that so why would I waste my time. Maybe you should prove you are not.

My side is that there is no evidence suggesting players are not playing hard because of Rodgers. Thats the point.I posted an opinion on page one...what kind of support do you need.This thread here proves my point...there is not one bit of evidence to suggest players are playing less hard simply because of the QB.And no...no poster has already proven your bogus accusation.It should be easy...find my quote in this thread where I admit I diminish Favre. You won't do it...because you can't. Because your claim was a complete and total lie.You can keep repeating that another poster did...that is just lie #2.

I thought your point was players were playing the just as hard regardless of Brett being there or Rodgers be the QB. I didn't realize your point was you have nothing to support they are not.Fine you have no evidence to even start to back up your opinion. No need to be in the conversation any more then.I just did that myself since you seem to like bringing it up. I'll check for your spin there.Oh. yeah I'd like to see where I called Favre the messiah by the way.

My point is I have seen no evidence that players are not playing as hard with Rodgers as they did with Favre.Its an opinion. of course there is no actual evidence on it...just as there is no evidence to say otherwise.No need to be in the conversation because an opinion has no evidence to support it? There is nothing to support the other side of it either...despite 9 pages of you all spinning trying to prove things I never disagreed with.Id like to see where I claimed you called him that by the way.

 

[sho nuff]

Seems different from what you posted in your prior pots. I thought it was about evidence of it not questioning it. If your questioning it shouldn't you have some support material that led you to start questioning it?

Wow...you really are becoming a spin master aren't you.Questioning it = asking for evidence. Get it?Read my first post on the topic.My first post on this topic asked if anyone thought people were not playing hard this year. Its that simple.And nobody has even tried to answer that. Instead I get quotes from people about how important leadership is, that people played hard for Favre, and that Favre is a good leader.

 

[sho nuff]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.

Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.

Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

He doesn't need a link. This entire forum is filled with posts of you doing that.

Then you should be able to find just one post where I admit to diminishing him.Not one that you claim is me doing it...but one where I admit to doing so. That was his accusation.

And now you are jumping in too.

And you still have an accusation to prove as well, how is that one coming.

Or the two of you just admit you made it up. Its that simple.

I am not diminishing what he did or meant to the Packers other than to diminish the importance some of you have put on it.

You are all making him out to be a messiah and he simply was not that.

There you go. Now if you could find my post where I called Favre the messiah I'd appreciate it.Oh yeah. I already saw you try and spin out of this comment. You are trying to diminish Favre in the eyes of others to make him appear to them as you see him. Seems like you are trying to diminish him to me.

Once again I'd like to see where I called Favre the messiah. Seems like a lie you made up about me.

Yup...there you go...you provided exactly what I said you would, a quote from me saying I diminish the importance that some of you have put on it. I admit that. What you claimed was that I admitted to diminishing what he actually did. Its not spin...its reality of what I said. Claiming that quote meant I diminished Favre is what is spin.

"seems like I am trying to diminish him to you...great...does not mean I am.

It means I question the opinion of how important some of the leadership qualities are...not that I question his leadership...but the opinion of some on this board. Nothing more. Taking it as anything else (as you and others have) is what is complete and total spin by definition.

I said you all (so not just you) are making him out to be the messiah...not that you called him that. Again...spin by you to try and argue.

Just more of your spin. You asked for the proof now your just denying it when it's right there.So not just me but not me?

Show me one post where I'm making him out to be the messiah then. You seem to like calling people liars so back up your claim that "I'm making him out to be the messiah".

Spin? Its freakin fact. I did say you all (not just you). Better if I use "y'all". Not sure if those not from the south would have gotten that one.Yes, I asked for proof of me admitting I diminish Favre. Not proof of me diminishing your opinion of him. I deny that you proved your claim...because you proved something completely different. Its pretty simple. You made a false accusation...perhaps you just mistyped what you were trying to say. Just say that...its pretty simple to admit your mistake. But don't continue spinning if you are just trying to cover up your lie. Don't worry, you have company, phase is still trying to find where I said Rodgers is as good of a leader as Favre as he claimed I said so you are not alone as making false claims about what I have said.

I call people liars who claim I actually said something that I never said.

You are trying to make me back up an opinion of the appearance that you have made him out to be something.

I could take the stand and just say...look at the posts. The gushing over Favre. Or I could go post by post through several threads and point them all out to you.

I don't feel like taking the time to go through almost 50 pages of 2 threads (plus no telling how many pages of the originaly trade thread) to show you where people are making him out to be more than what he is and overestimating the effect.

The messiah is an exaggeration...cue the backpedal accusation...or instead you could quit being so obtuse and realize that its my opinion that people have overstated the effect Favre had. That while he had an effect with his leadership, I don't think its as big as most of you make it out to be.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Seems different from what you posted in your prior pots. I thought it was about evidence of it not questioning it. If your questioning it shouldn't you have some support material that led you to start questioning it?

My first post on this topic asked if anyone thought people were not playing hard this year. Its that simple.And nobody has even tried to answer that. Instead I get quotes from people about how important leadership is, that people played hard for Favre, and that Favre is a good leader.

It isn't that simple and you fail to understand that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stinger Ray]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.

Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.

Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

He doesn't need a link. This entire forum is filled with posts of you doing that.

Then you should be able to find just one post where I admit to diminishing him.Not one that you claim is me doing it...but one where I admit to doing so. That was his accusation.

And now you are jumping in too.

And you still have an accusation to prove as well, how is that one coming.

Or the two of you just admit you made it up. Its that simple.

I am not diminishing what he did or meant to the Packers other than to diminish the importance some of you have put on it.

You are all making him out to be a messiah and he simply was not that.

There you go. Now if you could find my post where I called Favre the messiah I'd appreciate it.Oh yeah. I already saw you try and spin out of this comment. You are trying to diminish Favre in the eyes of others to make him appear to them as you see him. Seems like you are trying to diminish him to me.

Once again I'd like to see where I called Favre the messiah. Seems like a lie you made up about me.

Yup...there you go...you provided exactly what I said you would, a quote from me saying I diminish the importance that some of you have put on it. I admit that. What you claimed was that I admitted to diminishing what he actually did. Its not spin...its reality of what I said. Claiming that quote meant I diminished Favre is what is spin.

"seems like I am trying to diminish him to you...great...does not mean I am.

It means I question the opinion of how important some of the leadership qualities are...not that I question his leadership...but the opinion of some on this board. Nothing more. Taking it as anything else (as you and others have) is what is complete and total spin by definition.

I said you all (so not just you) are making him out to be the messiah...not that you called him that. Again...spin by you to try and argue.

Just more of your spin. You asked for the proof now your just denying it when it's right there.So not just me but not me?

Show me one post where I'm making him out to be the messiah then. You seem to like calling people liars so back up your claim that "I'm making him out to be the messiah".

That while he had an effect with his leadership, I don't think its as big as most of you make it out to be.

To quote sho...."I go through no lengths to diminish what the guy has done."

 

[sho nuff]

Seems different from what you posted in your prior pots. I thought it was about evidence of it not questioning it. If your questioning it shouldn't you have some support material that led you to start questioning it?

My first post on this topic asked if anyone thought people were not playing hard this year. Its that simple.And nobody has even tried to answer that. Instead I get quotes from people about how important leadership is, that people played hard for Favre, and that Favre is a good leader.

It isn't that simple and you fail to understand that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Umm...you don't get what Im saying (which is not a shock).Im saying my point in this is very simple...and you don't get it.Leadership is a very complex thing and adds alot in different phases of the game. I am not, nor have I ever, denied that.I am saying, in the aspect of guys trying harder for one and not the other, not one person has come up with anything to show that people are not playing harder now.It started with my first post on the topic...Id post your response to my first few posts...but they only consisted of and such to anything that Phase said (while he spun around and around away from my actual words...his usual tactic).

 

[sho nuff]

You just don't see the writing on the wall. Opening your eyes and understanding what the players are saying might help.

Not one thing says they are playing as well for Rodgers as they did for Brett. Prove they are. Oh yeah you can't.

Once again you can't see the forest for the trees.

Still waiting for you to link to me admitting I diminish Favre.

He doesn't need a link. This entire forum is filled with posts of you doing that.

Then you should be able to find just one post where I admit to diminishing him.Not one that you claim is me doing it...but one where I admit to doing so. That was his accusation.

And now you are jumping in too.

And you still have an accusation to prove as well, how is that one coming.

Or the two of you just admit you made it up. Its that simple.

I am not diminishing what he did or meant to the Packers other than to diminish the importance some of you have put on it.

You are all making him out to be a messiah and he simply was not that.

There you go. Now if you could find my post where I called Favre the messiah I'd appreciate it.Oh yeah. I already saw you try and spin out of this comment. You are trying to diminish Favre in the eyes of others to make him appear to them as you see him. Seems like you are trying to diminish him to me.

Once again I'd like to see where I called Favre the messiah. Seems like a lie you made up about me.

Yup...there you go...you provided exactly what I said you would, a quote from me saying I diminish the importance that some of you have put on it. I admit that. What you claimed was that I admitted to diminishing what he actually did. Its not spin...its reality of what I said. Claiming that quote meant I diminished Favre is what is spin.

"seems like I am trying to diminish him to you...great...does not mean I am.

It means I question the opinion of how important some of the leadership qualities are...not that I question his leadership...but the opinion of some on this board. Nothing more. Taking it as anything else (as you and others have) is what is complete and total spin by definition.

I said you all (so not just you) are making him out to be the messiah...not that you called him that. Again...spin by you to try and argue.

Just more of your spin. You asked for the proof now your just denying it when it's right there.So not just me but not me?

Show me one post where I'm making him out to be the messiah then. You seem to like calling people liars so back up your claim that "I'm making him out to be the messiah".

That while he had an effect with his leadership, I don't think its as big as most of you make it out to be.

To quote sho...."I go through no lengths to diminish what the guy has done."

Which does nothing to contradict what I just said. Again, this is pure spin to even claim that the quote you keep bringing up and have put in your sig...contradicts that statement.Favre did a ton. I don't diminish that.

I diminish your opinion of the guy and don't think parts of the leadership have made as much of an effect as some of you think.

That is not taking away from what the guy actually did...its a way of saying I think you all have put too much on it and made it out to be too big.

But you will never understand that...I think I have explained it to you about 3 times now...and you still don't get it.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Seems different from what you posted in your prior pots. I thought it was about evidence of it not questioning it. If your questioning it shouldn't you have some support material that led you to start questioning it?

My first post on this topic asked if anyone thought people were not playing hard this year. Its that simple.And nobody has even tried to answer that. Instead I get quotes from people about how important leadership is, that people played hard for Favre, and that Favre is a good leader.

It isn't that simple and you fail to understand that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am saying, in the aspect of guys trying harder for one and not the other, not one person has come up with anything to show that people are not playing harder now.

You will not find one person to come up with anything! Do you really think that proves anything? Hell no it doesn't. It just continues to show how to try and take some stupid stance and think it is proving something.Again, answer this for me, PLEASE. Do you really expect to find a player that will say...."I am not playing as hard for Aaron as I did for Brett".Playing hard is not the same thing as making plays or having someone around you that elevates your play. I really do think you are nuts.All you do is spin and spin to a point you have to backpeddle and start to hang your hat on stupid arguements like are the players playing hard for Rodgers. Give me a break, sho.You are a Favre detractor and the board knows it. I will be like Joe B. know and realize there is no point in dealing with you.