rockaction
Footballguy
I think Jones and Ridley are greater than Edelman and whoever is second in line in NE. That may be where the disagreement is.
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Mohamed Sanu traded to Patriots (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Man With No Name
- Start date
The upside is that Sanu can operate like a TE in this offense. He’s a pretty big target in the red zone. I don’t think this hurts the value of any of the NE WRs (JE, Gordon, Dorsett)
Hooper was also a target hog. 55 targets in 7 games. Manu should get some boost in NE.
rockaction
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Sanu got 7 targets a game this year in ATL. By comparison in NE . . .
Edelman 9.7
White 7.8
Gordon 6
Watson 5
Dorsett 4.5
Burkhead 4.5
Those numbers are skewed because guys have been in and out of the lineup. But I don't see Sanu getting targeted more in NE. The Pats should get Gordon and Harry back soon to factor into the mix.
Edelman 9.7
White 7.8
Gordon 6
Watson 5
Dorsett 4.5
Burkhead 4.5
Those numbers are skewed because guys have been in and out of the lineup. But I don't see Sanu getting targeted more in NE. The Pats should get Gordon and Harry back soon to factor into the mix.
rockaction
Footballguy
Sanu hit an apex of twelve targets back in Week Four and has since gone 5, 4, 2.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Thanks for the additional perspectives.
I don't disagree, I guess I just see Sanu as a useful NFL player who will have some big weeks, but I wouldn't start unless desperate. He really can't be counted on, and I don't think this trade changes that. I'm not sure I would even roster him in favor of higher upside players. I'd rather have an RB who is one injury away.
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Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
I think you are more or less right here. He'll continue to be a WR3. I can see this from the NE side though, as all of their WR vets have injury concerns. It wouldn't come as a surprise to me though if he took Gordon's spot for good. I don't think Gordon is completely washed, but he's been pretty inefficient, and is banged up to boot.
rockaction
Footballguy
Actually, thanks for your perspective. I think I was a little more blown away by the trade than I should have been.
Man, I really love this trade for the Falcons. Getting a late 2nd, for a guy they may have cut(cap issues) this offseason is pretty great. I can't believe Sanu got a 2. What is AJ Green worth then? 2 1sts? Is Emmanuel Sanders worth a 1st? Sanu is a pretty limited WR, he has very little experience outside, and NE was already chock full of slot guys. Is Edelman gonna play outside? Is Sanu going be almost a TE?
Maybe I'm really underrating Sanu, but is he a better WR than Dorsett even? Why would NE want him, instead of somebody with more versatility like Sanders? Is Gordon hurt a lot worse then they are letting on?
Sorry for the 20 questions, but I really don't understand this move at all from the Patriots end. Feels like they just gave away a 2nd rounder for WR depth.
Maybe I'm really underrating Sanu, but is he a better WR than Dorsett even? Why would NE want him, instead of somebody with more versatility like Sanders? Is Gordon hurt a lot worse then they are letting on?
Sorry for the 20 questions, but I really don't understand this move at all from the Patriots end. Feels like they just gave away a 2nd rounder for WR depth.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think at this point that NE feels like a Super Bowl is right under their nose and that they're gathering the complementary pieces needed for any potential exigencies' sake. A second round pick is worth it to them, I think.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, they are looking for Sanu for next year and beyond if he works out. Gordon and Dorsett are on one year deals. Edelman will be 34 next year and will be a FA after that. Harry has yet to suit up and is a total unknown. I know people here are high on Meyers' upside, but that also is mostly speculation and Brady isn't his biggest fan. We are entering unchartered waters for NE players, as their QB and coaching situation could change at any point and there could be MAJOR changes.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They lead the league in scoring based on the defense scoring 5 TD's and a safety, in addition to giving the offense some very short fields. I think the offense is in trouble narrative is a bit overblown as well, as I think that has more to do with a rash of injuries than anything else. Once they get some pieces back and open up the playbook they will be as good as always.
Kitrick Taylor
Footballguy
Adding to this:
-Gordon is currently out with an injury.
-Dorsett is just returning from an injury and is probably best used as a 3-5 target kind of guy.
-Edelman is battling an injury and has a long history of missing extended time, only playing 16 games 2x in his 10 full years as a pro.
-Gronk is retired.
Sanu has missed 2 games in the last 5 years, and can be counted on as a chain mover.
rockaction
Footballguy
Scott Barrett from PFF, echoing Anarchy99:
"If forced to take a stand on Sanu’s value across the rest of the season, I’d rank him as a mid-range WR4 for fantasy. If Gordon’s injury lingers and Sanu assumes the No. 2 role in the offense, that could make him as valuable as a high-end WR3. But, more than likely, the Patriots will remain a spread-the-ball around offense, where Edelman is the only consistent producer week-to-week."
"If forced to take a stand on Sanu’s value across the rest of the season, I’d rank him as a mid-range WR4 for fantasy. If Gordon’s injury lingers and Sanu assumes the No. 2 role in the offense, that could make him as valuable as a high-end WR3. But, more than likely, the Patriots will remain a spread-the-ball around offense, where Edelman is the only consistent producer week-to-week."
Birdie048
Footballguy
Point taken. But the overall ATL Offense was a train wreck with poor OL play, plus having Julio #1, Calvin #2 and Hooper #3 in targets. While ATL (Matt Ryan) is #2 in passing attempts (285 thru 7 games), NEP is not far behind at #5 (273 thru 7). The likely hierarchy is better in NE than ATL even if Sanu is #3 IMO. Better offense and very likely more value in PPR leagues since they don't have a quality TE, Sanu will control alot of space.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
When I saw the trade compensation my mind went back to their acquisition of Wes Welker and to his contributions. They paid for the asset fairly highly. I presume they intend to use it. Who knows.
Excellent run blocker. Will upgrade the trademark short passing / screen game and outside run game. Compensates for lack of TE for moving the chains on 3rd downs and 4-6yds to go that NE frequently finds itself in. Red zone monster.
Great for real football, not so much for fake football.
Great for real football, not so much for fake football.
Dizzy
Footballguy
This right here. Sanu is an excellent edge blocker. If anything, trade could be a boost for Sony Michel.
More TD opportunity.
I do think he gains value but it is extremely minimal. Like from a weak WR5 to a strong WR5.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Currently in my 12 Team PPR Dynasty, Sanu is WR55. This is clear WR5. No argument. 33 rec on 42 targets 313 yards 1 TD (average 4.7 rec 44.7 yrds) 10.1 pts/gm
A small gain of 1.5 pts/gm would bump him to WR43, into WR4 range (Ju-Ju & Landry range). That is only 1 extra catch per game. Easily within reality in a higher scoring Off.
I expect his overall fantasy production to increase a couple of pt/gm (like 2.5 - 3.0 realistically). This would put him WR36-38 range (OBJ, Woods & Fitz) & make him a low end WR3. This is also plausible as it is only 2 additional catches per game for minimal yardage. When you consider his Red Zone abilities, that really bumps his "potential" value in NEP.
If he gets a healthy 4 pts/gm bump, we are talking Top 30. This might be a stretch, but it all depends on his usage. Brady wants weapons. While nobody has come out against any of the current WRs, the fact they have been pursing Sanu since April speaks volumes to me. And when that effort came up empty in April, they drafted Harry (who is soon to return).
Nigel
Footballguy
Is it possible now they don't burn one of their two IR-return cards on Harry, and use them on Devlin and Wynn instead?
What's the correlation between a higher scoring offense and more catches? I think his TD opportunity goes up, but I think his catches might actually go down. I do not see a 3-4 ppg bump at all.
tombonneau
Footballguy
I'll be pretty stunned if they use it on a FB. I know he's a BB Guy, but it's a pretty replaceable position.
Nigel
Footballguy
You might be right, but Devlin is pretty special within the context of this offense. Great blocker, and very good pass-catcher.
Birdie048
Footballguy
The more efficient higher scoring offense has more plays. They will encounter higher volume of 3rd & short opportunities and the likely recipient will benefit from the increased targets/catches. Atl was often facing 3rd & long and targeting JJ & Calvin plus they used Hooper for their 3rd & short looks.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Agreed.... (a stat I provided earlier in thread)... I am talking about Offensive Snaps. Not just passes. ATL averages 65 per game while NE averages 73 per game.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They already used one of the IR - return spots by activating Harry. So they only have one left. They can decide to leave Harry on IR for the remainder of the season, but they can't regain the right to activate someone else. Harry started practicing this past week, so he counts as one of the two no matter what they do with him.
Right. How does Sanu benefit from more running plays though?
Guess I just don't see how the assumption is that Sanu will automatically catch MORE balls in an offense that passes LESS.
Birdie048
Footballguy
No problem. I am only expressing my perspective that his value will only increase by 2 catches per game. He will be a short yardage & RZ threat. He will be a reliable target and his being on the field more will result in this gain. I am not talking Top 30 as reality... just dreaming as a Sanu owner. I expect Top 36-40 range.
Nigel
Footballguy
Tanner9919
Footballguy
because Brady >>>> Ryan, and Ryan is in a walking boot with the great Schaub about to take over - Mr. Pick 6 is on the way. oof..
PERFECT time for Sanu to go to NE.
maybe I see it differently, but he's going to thrive in NE. They can't count on Dorsett and JE staying healthy, and JE just doesn't look like himself he looks slower, older, IMO anyways.
Sanu gets a huge bump in stats, I'd imagine he's the 1b with JE as a 1a in that offense.
PERFECT time for Sanu to go to NE.
maybe I see it differently, but he's going to thrive in NE. They can't count on Dorsett and JE staying healthy, and JE just doesn't look like himself he looks slower, older, IMO anyways.
Sanu gets a huge bump in stats, I'd imagine he's the 1b with JE as a 1a in that offense.
tombonneau
Footballguy
Had a feeling this was gonna happen. Even though they had been trying to pick up another WR since the offseason, the price they paid for Sanu made me think that Gordon was not long for this season. WR corp will be very interesting once Harry gets on board. He should now be almost a 1:1 replacement for Gordon. Which leaves Sanu's role wide open. In base, I think he takes Dorsett's role and bumps him down the depth chart, but Sanu also plays a lot from the slot, so I hate to say it given I traded for him, but once Harry is on the field, if he picks up offense, I could see Sanu spelling Edelman a lot and the latter's snap count could come way down, with a lot of Harry-Dorsett-Sanu formations.
Birdie048
Footballguy
If Sanu's strength is short/intermediate routes (ie RZ), this would replace the non-existent TE role in NEP since Gronk left. This is just another piece of the puzzle in their offense left unresolved. I don't see it impacting Harry or Edelman, but fewer rec for White is likely.
Bossman
Footballguy
This.
Josh Gordon was "the big" in that receiving corps and now Sanu at 6'2" 210 lbs ... . At least until Nkeal gets up to speed.
Gordon / Sanu diifferent skill set imo. Sanu strikes me as more of a over the middle possession type WR and able to fill the Gronk void better.
Don Hutson
Footballguy
Sanu's strength is not the red zone. He has never had more than 5 touchdowns in a season. In the 7.5 years he has been in the league, he has had 25 touchdowns while his quarterbacks had 219 touchdowns in those seasons.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
This
I don't see the trade as a big move/shake up and I'm not sure what Sanu provides as I think of him as a possession guy.
I'm sure he will catch a few passes every game and move chains and for the Pats that's great but in terms of FF i don't see Sanu going over 50 yds a whole lot.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I am hearing more and more that BB has had a thing for Sanu from the time he was drafted. Former players have indicated that he closely followed his career, has kept a file on him, and had him labelled as a player to acquire if / whenever possible. He had a similar take on Wes Welker.
Does that mean anything? I have no idea. The disconnect for many people is that they look at the numbers on another team and conclude that that player was merely ok. But his numbers playing in the slot have been Top 3-4 over the past few years. IF, and it is a big IF, New England targets him like they did someone like Welker, clearly his stock would shoot way up. I would temper enthusiasm on that because he is coming in mid-season without any knowledge of the NE system. I would expect better things from him next year and he could be a fantasy sleeper in 2020.
From the looks of it, the plan downstream would be to have Sanu in the slot, Edelman outside and in motion, and Harry and Dorsett splitting time on the other side. Even though Meyers has the highest catch rate in the league right now according to PFF, he probably loses out in the Sanu and Harry additions. I still think initially the only consistent fantasy producer in the short term will be Edelman. He is a target monster. All the other receivers will have decent games or some moments, but IMO none of them will see enough targets on a regular basis to be considered a must start fantasy wise.
Personally, I think the NE corps of receivers is fine, but the media still is beating the drum that they are one of the weaker units in the league. I still think the Pats are turning over ever rock to acquire a decent TE, but I am not sure many are available (and they don't have a lot of cap room to bring in a decent sized contract). I guess we will find out next week if they acquire another TE.
From FFI magazine, in the last 3 years, both Sanu and Jones were top 30 in the league in targets inside the 10. Sanu had the 3rd highest catch rate, while Julio had the worst. That counts 2pt conversions and catches not resulting TDs.
I agree! They are missing the great blocking of Gronk. I think adding Sanu is a nice pivot from trying to replace Gronk with an actual TE.
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Insoxicated
New England isn’t afraid to go get a guy that they know will fit.
There is no love lost from Atlanta toward New England after the Super Bowl a couple years ago… They were going to make New England pay for Sanu if they wanted him.
They clearly wanted him.
This is exactly on-point. And, it also keeps intact Edelman and Dorsett's respective roles on the team.
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