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Montee Ball (1 Viewer)

is Hillman acceptable in pass pro? I'm wondering if he takes some 3rd down work away from ball?
Acceptable. And Ball won't be at 90% of the snaps going forward, no. Not even Jamaal Charles hit 90% last season, (he finished somewhere in the 84-86% range, depending on how you measure it). It's just a question of where Ball winds up. Moreno played in 58.8% of all possible snaps last year, although a small part of that was just resting during blowouts. He played in 61.3% as many snaps as Peyton Manning had. I would feel pretty comfortable betting on Ball topping that percentage this year. If I'm speculating about where he winds up, I'd guess somewhere around 70%, or even slightly more. But there's plenty of room to revise that upward or downward once we see how Denver is using Hillman.

 
If I were a Ball owner I'd be very pleased with the usage and the fact that he put up a good FF line without a particularly good performance on the field. Big FF days are clearly on the immediate horizon.

As an Anderson owner in a league with deep rosters I thought he looked pretty good with a very limited sample. I just hope he can show well enough to continue getting snaps once Hillman is active and be in position to have an opportunity should something happen to Ball.

 
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If I were a Ball owner I'd be very pleased with the usage and the fact that he put up a good FF line without a particularly good performance on the field. Big FF days are clearly on the immediate horizon.

As an Anderson owner in a league with deep rosters I thought he looked pretty good with a very limited sample. I just hope he can show well enough to continue getting snaps once Hillman is active and be in position to have an opportunity should something happen to Ball.
Will the Broncos keep four running backs active? Sounds like the 4th string guy is a valuable ST player.

 
If I were a Ball owner I'd be very pleased with the usage and the fact that he put up a good FF line without a particularly good performance on the field. Big FF days are clearly on the immediate horizon.

As an Anderson owner in a league with deep rosters I thought he looked pretty good with a very limited sample. I just hope he can show well enough to continue getting snaps once Hillman is active and be in position to have an opportunity should something happen to Ball.
Will the Broncos keep four running backs active? Sounds like the 4th string guy is a valuable ST player.
Probably not. Those game-day active slots are too valuable. IIRC, there were a couple of games last year where Denver only activated two RBs. If Denver really needs the help on special teams, I suspect they wouldn't activate three different RBs who don't play on it plus a fourth who did.

 
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I like the usage but he looked plodding and slow on Sunday. With Clady back the Broncos have an elite pass blocking unit but no road-graders for the running game. I'm not sure he's going to have that many running lanes this year. The Colts aren't exactly an elite run-blocking unit. In fact, they were the 7th worst in 2013 and lost guys like Mathis. So that's pretty bad that he couldn't even average 3.0 YPC.

 
Phenomena said:
I like the usage but he looked plodding and slow on Sunday. With Clady back the Broncos have an elite pass blocking unit but no road-graders for the running game. I'm not sure he's going to have that many running lanes this year. The Colts aren't exactly an elite run-blocking unit. In fact, they were the 7th worst in 2013 and lost guys like Mathis. So that's pretty bad that he couldn't even average 3.0 YPC.
There's a ton of run-blocking beef on the inside of that line. Franklin and Manny Ramirez are true road-graders whose strength is in the run game, and while Vasquez is mostly (and rightly) known for his pass protection, PFF graded him as a top-10 run-blocker at guard, too. They had a rough game against the Colts. I wouldn't read too much into it.

In fact, Denver opened last season with 23/65/0 rushing against the Ravens and a very negative run-blocking grade from PFF, too. They still finished the season top-5 in run-blocking, at least by PFF's grades, (though I think PFF's graders were too generous to Denver's line last year).

Either way, we've got a sample size of 1. Let's not dramatically overhaul our preseason expectations because of it.

 
What makes people think he is benched?
The entire last drive he was out and Anderson was in. And Anderson looked really good.
They've done that every game for the last 2 years.
I didn't see Anderson in on an entire drive in game 1. This one seemed different. He even came back in after the two minute warning.

I hope I'm wrong because I own Ball everywhere. And I'm exceptionally pessimistic regarding my players, so I very well could be reading things incorrectly. But I don't like what I saw.

 
What makes people think he is benched?
The entire last drive he was out and Anderson was in. And Anderson looked really good.
They've done that every game for the last 2 years.
I didn't see Anderson in on an entire drive in game 1. This one seemed different. He even came back in after the two minute warning.

I hope I'm wrong because I own Ball everywhere. And I'm exceptionally pessimistic regarding my players, so I very well could be reading things incorrectly. But I don't like what I saw.
Every game for the last 2 years.

 
What makes people think he is benched?
The entire last drive he was out and Anderson was in. And Anderson looked really good.
They've done that every game for the last 2 years.
I didn't see Anderson in on an entire drive in game 1. This one seemed different. He even came back in after the two minute warning.

I hope I'm wrong because I own Ball everywhere. And I'm exceptionally pessimistic regarding my players, so I very well could be reading things incorrectly. But I don't like what I saw.
Every game for the last 2 years.
How about you go check the play by play for last week before you spout off such things.

 
I haven't seen the snap data yet, but I think C.J. Anderson only played on the one drive. He came in on the last drive of the first half and played all of the snaps (including through two different play stoppages), but I think that's all he got all game.

People are quick to react to stuff in the early weeks. I think we forget what football looks like. Guys go long stretches without touches, backups play more than we remember, etc. I'm willing to bet that Montee Ball topped 70% of the offensive snaps for the second consecutive week after no Broncos RB managed it once all of last season. Things look good for him this year.

 
So would it be wise to just drop hillman for cj Anderson or do we need to see more? Cj looks like the clear second rb to me.

And I know it's sea, but ball is still starting for me this week. He could have multiple tds vs any opponent in this offense

 
So would it be wise to just drop hillman for cj Anderson or do we need to see more? Cj looks like the clear second rb to me.

And I know it's sea, but ball is still starting for me this week. He could have multiple tds vs any opponent in this offense
with all the injuries, id love to see the roster of the team that benches ball this week

 
I hope it was the appendectomy but he really hasn't done anything to distinguish himself on the field. He had a convoy on that 16 yard run and I though he'd rip off. 40 but there was no gear to kick it into.

I'm just glad I own Anderson In leagues with ball and I'm stashing him in leagues without

 
shadyridr said:
need2know said:
So would it be wise to just drop hillman for cj Anderson or do we need to see more? Cj looks like the clear second rb to me.

And I know it's sea, but ball is still starting for me this week. He could have multiple tds vs any opponent in this offense
with all the injuries, id love to see the roster of the team that benches ball this week
Plus...SEA's defense didn't look as dominant as it did in Week 1. Granted, it was hot as nuts in SD but Manning is way better than Rivers.

 
need2know said:
So would it be wise to just drop hillman for cj Anderson or do we need to see more? Cj looks like the clear second rb to me.

And I know it's sea, but ball is still starting for me this week. He could have multiple tds vs any opponent in this offense
Hillman's not worth rostering in any but the very, very deepest of leagues. He's been sitting on the wire in several of my leagues for nearly a year now and nobody has any interest in him- including me.

 
Smack Tripper said:
I hope it was the appendectomy but he really hasn't done anything to distinguish himself on the field. He had a convoy on that 16 yard run and I though he'd rip off. 40 but there was no gear to kick it into.

I'm just glad I own Anderson In leagues with ball and I'm stashing him in leagues without
See, I disagree. I think he's looked pretty good. He's not Adrian Peterson or Jamaal Charles (or Gio Bernard or Le'Veon Bell), but he's a pretty strong starter. His YPC was junk in week 1, but he led the league in missed tackles forced that week because he got met at or behind the line of scrimmage on over 80% of his carries. He consistently gained extra yardage and it was a strong effort even to approach 3 ypc. This week, both Anderson and Ball again were getting met head-on within a yard or two of the LoS on most plays, and both backs did a good job of taking advantage of the few plays where they were able to get past the line with some semblance of momentum intact. Anderson had a pair of carries where he was able to rip through half-hearted arm tackles and turn in a ~10 yard gain. On Ball's second reception he made a nifty move to avoid the initial tackler and was able to run it out for 16 yards. On his 23-yard gain on 3rd-and-24, Ball juked out the first two would-be tacklers without getting touched, and when a third defender was able to catch up to him while he was dodging the first two, he carried that defender on his back for five extra yards to get the ball down close to the line to gain. Ball's getting what's there every time, and then half the time at least he's adding extra afterwards. I'm watching the coaches' film and I'm not seeing him missing his reads at all. He's making smart decisions and doing what's asked. He doesn't pop off the film, largely because he isn't a physical freak like a lot of the best backs, but neither do guys like Frank Gore. At the end of the day, it's just a question of what you do with what you have.

Plus, Ball's been much improved in both the receiving game and in pass protection. I believe he gave up his first pressure this week, but it's really hard to fault him for it- it looked to me like Vasquez was supposed to pull and provide help on the left, but he was slow getting over, which left Montee Ball one-on-one against an onrushing Tamba Hali, who was in the backfield immediately with momentum intact after not being slowed at the LoS. Any RB in the NFL is going to be hopelessly overmatched when they're one-on-one against a 260-pound pro bowl pass rusher with a full head of steam. Hali just bull-rushed Ball and ran him over.

Anyway, Ball's playing well, and I don't get this eagerness everyone has to shuffle him off the field and replace him. He's not quite at Moreno-vs.-New England or Moreno-vs.-New York levels from last year, but my take is that he's playing better than Moreno did in most of his other games. I'm sure Denver is extremely happy with what they have in Ball. They're showing absolutely no interest at all in replacing him. Hillman didn't play a single snap against Kansas City. C.J. Anderson had an entire drive all to himself (the touchdown drive just before halftime), but outside of that one drive he only played a single snap all game; after Ball had his 23-yard gain on 3rd-and-24 followed by his quick 4th-and-1 conversion while the defense was still confused, he came off the field for one snap to catch a breather and then went right back on. Ball's now topped 70% of Denver's snaps in back-to-back weeks after no Denver RB did it once last year. He's getting boatloads of snaps, he's playing pretty well with them, and everyone in Denver seems to be quite pleased with him. C.J. Anderson is worth owning for the same reason that James Starks is worth owning, but Montee Ball is the workhorse and I really don't see him getting supplanted this year.

 
shadyridr said:
need2know said:
So would it be wise to just drop hillman for cj Anderson or do we need to see more? Cj looks like the clear second rb to me.

And I know it's sea, but ball is still starting for me this week. He could have multiple tds vs any opponent in this offense
with all the injuries, id love to see the roster of the team that benches ball this week
Plus...SEA's defense didn't look as dominant as it did in Week 1. Granted, it was hot as nuts in SD but Manning is way better than Rivers.
It miffs me that people forget Seattle at home is unstoppable, no matter who they play.

 
shadyridr said:
need2know said:
So would it be wise to just drop hillman for cj Anderson or do we need to see more? Cj looks like the clear second rb to me.

And I know it's sea, but ball is still starting for me this week. He could have multiple tds vs any opponent in this offense
with all the injuries, id love to see the roster of the team that benches ball this week
Plus...SEA's defense didn't look as dominant as it did in Week 1. Granted, it was hot as nuts in SD but Manning is way better than Rivers.
It miffs me that people forget Seattle at home is unstoppable, no matter who they play.
Except when they play AZ...
 
Smack Tripper said:
I hope it was the appendectomy but he really hasn't done anything to distinguish himself on the field. He had a convoy on that 16 yard run and I though he'd rip off. 40 but there was no gear to kick it into.

I'm just glad I own Anderson In leagues with ball and I'm stashing him in leagues without
See, I disagree. I think he's looked pretty good. He's not Adrian Peterson or Jamaal Charles (or Gio Bernard or Le'Veon Bell), but he's a pretty strong starter. His YPC was junk in week 1, but he led the league in missed tackles forced that week because he got met at or behind the line of scrimmage on over 80% of his carries. He consistently gained extra yardage and it was a strong effort even to approach 3 ypc. This week, both Anderson and Ball again were getting met head-on within a yard or two of the LoS on most plays, and both backs did a good job of taking advantage of the few plays where they were able to get past the line with some semblance of momentum intact. Anderson had a pair of carries where he was able to rip through half-hearted arm tackles and turn in a ~10 yard gain. On Ball's second reception he made a nifty move to avoid the initial tackler and was able to run it out for 16 yards. On his 23-yard gain on 3rd-and-24, Ball juked out the first two would-be tacklers without getting touched, and when a third defender was able to catch up to him while he was dodging the first two, he carried that defender on his back for five extra yards to get the ball down close to the line to gain. Ball's getting what's there every time, and then half the time at least he's adding extra afterwards. I'm watching the coaches' film and I'm not seeing him missing his reads at all. He's making smart decisions and doing what's asked. He doesn't pop off the film, largely because he isn't a physical freak like a lot of the best backs, but neither do guys like Frank Gore. At the end of the day, it's just a question of what you do with what you have.

Plus, Ball's been much improved in both the receiving game and in pass protection. I believe he gave up his first pressure this week, but it's really hard to fault him for it- it looked to me like Vasquez was supposed to pull and provide help on the left, but he was slow getting over, which left Montee Ball one-on-one against an onrushing Tamba Hali, who was in the backfield immediately with momentum intact after not being slowed at the LoS. Any RB in the NFL is going to be hopelessly overmatched when they're one-on-one against a 260-pound pro bowl pass rusher with a full head of steam. Hali just bull-rushed Ball and ran him over.

Anyway, Ball's playing well, and I don't get this eagerness everyone has to shuffle him off the field and replace him. He's not quite at Moreno-vs.-New England or Moreno-vs.-New York levels from last year, but my take is that he's playing better than Moreno did in most of his other games. I'm sure Denver is extremely happy with what they have in Ball. They're showing absolutely no interest at all in replacing him. Hillman didn't play a single snap against Kansas City. C.J. Anderson had an entire drive all to himself (the touchdown drive just before halftime), but outside of that one drive he only played a single snap all game; after Ball had his 23-yard gain on 3rd-and-24 followed by his quick 4th-and-1 conversion while the defense was still confused, he came off the field for one snap to catch a breather and then went right back on. Ball's now topped 70% of Denver's snaps in back-to-back weeks after no Denver RB did it once last year. He's getting boatloads of snaps, he's playing pretty well with them, and everyone in Denver seems to be quite pleased with him. C.J. Anderson is worth owning for the same reason that James Starks is worth owning, but Montee Ball is the workhorse and I really don't see him getting supplanted this year.
I guess my lament is a bit of buyers remorse in taking him as an RB1 or RB1 prospect when I passed on guys like Marshall or Green as a WR, so thats my personal displeasure with him after buying the hype of his pimping.

He's good, not great, and if you can't run in the situation of having a backed off D against the greatest passing offense in history, then there are some serious questions to be concerned with long term.

As I said earlier, he's a guy I'm shopping, don't like bit and its based on ability and not opportunity. But I do have to wonder if Denver won't look for a guy who could be more of a running threat to keep defenses honest and open passing lanes.

No one is coming into games saying whatever you we do, don't let Ball beat us, Ball just isn't beating them.

Its only two games, but I wish I saw more to hang my hat on.

 
Smack Tripper said:
I hope it was the appendectomy but he really hasn't done anything to distinguish himself on the field. He had a convoy on that 16 yard run and I though he'd rip off. 40 but there was no gear to kick it into.

I'm just glad I own Anderson In leagues with ball and I'm stashing him in leagues without
See, I disagree. I think he's looked pretty good. He's not Adrian Peterson or Jamaal Charles (or Gio Bernard or Le'Veon Bell), but he's a pretty strong starter. His YPC was junk in week 1, but he led the league in missed tackles forced that week because he got met at or behind the line of scrimmage on over 80% of his carries. He consistently gained extra yardage and it was a strong effort even to approach 3 ypc. This week, both Anderson and Ball again were getting met head-on within a yard or two of the LoS on most plays, and both backs did a good job of taking advantage of the few plays where they were able to get past the line with some semblance of momentum intact. Anderson had a pair of carries where he was able to rip through half-hearted arm tackles and turn in a ~10 yard gain. On Ball's second reception he made a nifty move to avoid the initial tackler and was able to run it out for 16 yards. On his 23-yard gain on 3rd-and-24, Ball juked out the first two would-be tacklers without getting touched, and when a third defender was able to catch up to him while he was dodging the first two, he carried that defender on his back for five extra yards to get the ball down close to the line to gain. Ball's getting what's there every time, and then half the time at least he's adding extra afterwards. I'm watching the coaches' film and I'm not seeing him missing his reads at all. He's making smart decisions and doing what's asked. He doesn't pop off the film, largely because he isn't a physical freak like a lot of the best backs, but neither do guys like Frank Gore. At the end of the day, it's just a question of what you do with what you have.

Plus, Ball's been much improved in both the receiving game and in pass protection. I believe he gave up his first pressure this week, but it's really hard to fault him for it- it looked to me like Vasquez was supposed to pull and provide help on the left, but he was slow getting over, which left Montee Ball one-on-one against an onrushing Tamba Hali, who was in the backfield immediately with momentum intact after not being slowed at the LoS. Any RB in the NFL is going to be hopelessly overmatched when they're one-on-one against a 260-pound pro bowl pass rusher with a full head of steam. Hali just bull-rushed Ball and ran him over.

Anyway, Ball's playing well, and I don't get this eagerness everyone has to shuffle him off the field and replace him. He's not quite at Moreno-vs.-New England or Moreno-vs.-New York levels from last year, but my take is that he's playing better than Moreno did in most of his other games. I'm sure Denver is extremely happy with what they have in Ball. They're showing absolutely no interest at all in replacing him. Hillman didn't play a single snap against Kansas City. C.J. Anderson had an entire drive all to himself (the touchdown drive just before halftime), but outside of that one drive he only played a single snap all game; after Ball had his 23-yard gain on 3rd-and-24 followed by his quick 4th-and-1 conversion while the defense was still confused, he came off the field for one snap to catch a breather and then went right back on. Ball's now topped 70% of Denver's snaps in back-to-back weeks after no Denver RB did it once last year. He's getting boatloads of snaps, he's playing pretty well with them, and everyone in Denver seems to be quite pleased with him. C.J. Anderson is worth owning for the same reason that James Starks is worth owning, but Montee Ball is the workhorse and I really don't see him getting supplanted this year.
I guess my lament is a bit of buyers remorse in taking him as an RB1 or RB1 prospect when I passed on guys like Marshall or Green as a WR, so thats my personal displeasure with him after buying the hype of his pimping.

He's good, not great, and if you can't run in the situation of having a backed off D against the greatest passing offense in history, then there are some serious questions to be concerned with long term.

As I said earlier, he's a guy I'm shopping, don't like bit and its based on ability and not opportunity. But I do have to wonder if Denver won't look for a guy who could be more of a running threat to keep defenses honest and open passing lanes.

No one is coming into games saying whatever you we do, don't let Ball beat us, Ball just isn't beating them.

Its only two games, but I wish I saw more to hang my hat on.
I know the points have not been great but he got 12 carries last game. Last week he faced a defense that just held mccoy down for most of the game. It will get better...

 
I think the thing that concerns me about Ball is not his talent or ability, but rather that the DEN O-line has looked so bad in run blocking. It's seriously discouraging to watch the D on the wrong side of the LoS so often. There just isn't any push whatsoever in the run game. When there have been seams, Ball has taken advantage and run well. But when D-linemen are across the LoS, even the best RBs are going to struggle to make positive runs. And that's a completely unexpected occurrence. I never expected to see such a drop in the O-line play in the run game, and it's substantial.

That affects Ball's value, without question.

 
I think the thing that concerns me about Ball is not his talent or ability, but rather that the DEN O-line has looked so bad in run blocking. It's seriously discouraging to watch the D on the wrong side of the LoS so often. There just isn't any push whatsoever in the run game. When there have been seams, Ball has taken advantage and run well. But when D-linemen are across the LoS, even the best RBs are going to struggle to make positive runs. And that's a completely unexpected occurrence. I never expected to see such a drop in the O-line play in the run game, and it's substantial.

That affects Ball's value, without question.
So you have seen a massive drop in o-line run blocking. This "substantial drop" is the result of what?

Is it change in personnel?

Change in offensive scheme?

Just not getting a good push at the line of scrimmage?

Knowshon had no problem running behind that offensive line last year without Clady. In a Peyton Manning lead offense with numerous weapons do you even need a STUDLY o-line to run the ball effectively? I say no....

Monte Ball needs to start producing!!!

 
I think the thing that concerns me about Ball is not his talent or ability, but rather that the DEN O-line has looked so bad in run blocking. It's seriously discouraging to watch the D on the wrong side of the LoS so often. There just isn't any push whatsoever in the run game. When there have been seams, Ball has taken advantage and run well. But when D-linemen are across the LoS, even the best RBs are going to struggle to make positive runs. And that's a completely unexpected occurrence. I never expected to see such a drop in the O-line play in the run game, and it's substantial.

That affects Ball's value, without question.
So you have seen a massive drop in o-line run blocking. This "substantial drop" is the result of what?

Is it change in personnel?

Change in offensive scheme?

Just not getting a good push at the line of scrimmage?

Knowshon had no problem running behind that offensive line last year without Clady. In a Peyton Manning lead offense with numerous weapons do you even need a STUDLY o-line to run the ball effectively? I say no....

Monte Ball needs to start producing!!!
Well denvers offense as a whole does not look as good as last year right now. I would say the line is the biggest reason

 
Many of us drafted Ball under the advice that he could be a solid RB1. The yardage is there, just not the scores. That's still possible. But watching games, I was reminded that this is Peyton's offense and they feel more comfortable letting Peyton make the plays at the goal line. I've seen a few times this year where they will give it to Ball on 1 and Goal and if he doesn't punch it in, they move on to Peyton and JT/DT.

I think this will be the story for Ball all year. Either he takes it in on a long play or he has to hit that 1-and-Goal play. If not, it's a crapshoot dictated by Manning.

 
As long as Ball avoids fumbles, he'll be fine. I have a feeling he's going to be a monster in the middle part of the season and I have no qualms starting him @ Seattle.

 
I think the thing that concerns me about Ball is not his talent or ability, but rather that the DEN O-line has looked so bad in run blocking. It's seriously discouraging to watch the D on the wrong side of the LoS so often. There just isn't any push whatsoever in the run game. When there have been seams, Ball has taken advantage and run well. But when D-linemen are across the LoS, even the best RBs are going to struggle to make positive runs. And that's a completely unexpected occurrence. I never expected to see such a drop in the O-line play in the run game, and it's substantial.

That affects Ball's value, without question.
So you have seen a massive drop in o-line run blocking. This "substantial drop" is the result of what?Is it change in personnel?

Change in offensive scheme?

Just not getting a good push at the line of scrimmage?

Knowshon had no problem running behind that offensive line last year without Clady. In a Peyton Manning lead offense with numerous weapons do you even need a STUDLY o-line to run the ball effectively? I say no....

Monte Ball needs to start producing!!!
:lol: well, you just e-mail him your demands. Ball was more productive running the ball than Moreno last year, by a significant margin. I just know that even special once-in-a-decade RBs are going to struggle when the D-line is one yard deep in the backfield at the point of attack. Something has to change or Ball isn't going to produce as projected.

Besides, what are you worried about? You're starting Sankey on every FF team you own. You shouldn't have RB issues.

.

 
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I agree that the line looks poor in the run game. Clearly, and sensibly, they devote most of their energy working on pass protection.

 
If I didn't own Ball in all of my leagues already, I'd be sending out offers. The level of panic in here from some is a bit alarming to me. I personally think Harstad has this nailed.

Things we know:

1) Knowshon was not some otherwordly talent - he was solid

2) Ball has, to this point, shown he likewise has solid talent (forced missed tackles last week, solid YPC this week)

3) Ball clearly has the Broncos trust; as Adam alluded to, he's playing 70%+ of the snaps. They've not had a RB do that in years.

4) It's September in Denver.

This is and will continue to be Peyton's offense first and foremost, but when it gets colder and the weather gets worse, they'll likely lean on the running game more. We see this every year across cold weather cities.

Adam's point shouldn't be ignored here -- Ball is handling over 70% (!) of the snaps. He'll be just fine.

 
I'm trying to sell. He doesn't look good at all. Plus the schedule over the next few weeks does not help.

Offered him for Lacy. Like his schedule more and think he can bounce back in a big way.

 

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