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More disappointing pre-season AFC contender (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter djcolts
- Start date
The Man with the Plan
Footballguy
The Chargers were supposed to be the best team in the NFL. They're barely the best team in California.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
The Chargers, without a doubt.
The Jaguars were the "sexy pick" coming into the season, but the Chargers were far more talented coming into the season, so they were a more realistic pick (even with the presence of Norv Turner), especially given how close they came to making the SB last year. Let me put it this way: Coming into this season, if you would have asked 100 football fans, one of these two teams, the Jaguars or the Chargers, will be 4-8 on December 2nd, which do you think it will be, the vast majority would have said the Jaguars.
The Jaguars were the "sexy pick" coming into the season, but the Chargers were far more talented coming into the season, so they were a more realistic pick (even with the presence of Norv Turner), especially given how close they came to making the SB last year. Let me put it this way: Coming into this season, if you would have asked 100 football fans, one of these two teams, the Jaguars or the Chargers, will be 4-8 on December 2nd, which do you think it will be, the vast majority would have said the Jaguars.
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kupcho1
Footballguy
Nonsense. You yourself noted the presence of Norv Turner. Most people would have picked the Chargers. I know I would have.
PosterNutBag
Footballguy
I disagree. GhostRider is 100% correct that the Jaguars would have been the overwhelming popular answer of that question.The Jaguars, while seemingly a good team, weren't dominating at times like the Chargers were last season. They were always a competitive team that would find a way to win close games. The Chargers would dominate most teams last season. The Chargers are definitely a much bigger surprise to be at 4-8 the way I see it.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
If you open this up the NFL in general I'd say SEA and it's not even close.
216 points
311 points against
... including a loss to PHI and a home loss to SF.
People are having fun railing against SD right now but despite a 4-8 record they have
290 points
274 points against
... and haven't lost a game to sub .500 team all season.
216 points
311 points against
... including a loss to PHI and a home loss to SF.
People are having fun railing against SD right now but despite a 4-8 record they have
290 points
274 points against
... and haven't lost a game to sub .500 team all season.
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
Who thought they were they best team in the NFL? Seriously?And eh, Niners could be better.
Captain Spaulding
Footballguy
As long as Norv Turner or Wade Phillips is your coach...(you know the rest)
I picked Jags vs. Green Bay in this years Superbowl. GB has potential but the Jags really look soft this year. They were incredibly physical last year on D and their Oline was dominant. I know they had some turnover on the O-line this season but I didn't think the impact would be this bad.
I picked Jags vs. Green Bay in this years Superbowl. GB has potential but the Jags really look soft this year. They were incredibly physical last year on D and their Oline was dominant. I know they had some turnover on the O-line this season but I didn't think the impact would be this bad.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
4-8 is still 4-8. But, if losing a lot of close games makes you feel better, carry on.
No one in their right mind considered the Bengals a Super Bowl contender.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Chargers, and it's not even close. Jags lost their entire O-line as soon as the season started. For a team dependent on running the ball and controlling the clock, this was a death blow.
The Chargers have underachieved on so many levels. Sure, they lost Merriman and LT was nicked. But the rest of the team was intact, and as a group they've found every possible way to lose. Can't run the ball, can't defend at all, especially vs. the pass, special teams non-existent, and Rivers has been Jekyll/Hyde. Most of all, Turner's done nothing to rally this team.
The Chargers have underachieved on so many levels. Sure, they lost Merriman and LT was nicked. But the rest of the team was intact, and as a group they've found every possible way to lose. Can't run the ball, can't defend at all, especially vs. the pass, special teams non-existent, and Rivers has been Jekyll/Hyde. Most of all, Turner's done nothing to rally this team.
Wu-banger
Footballguy
Jags were killed by injuries ..... Chargers just killed themselves
BassNBrew
Footballguy
But we expected a regression from the Chargers due to Norv's presence. We didn't expect the injuries in Jax. Jax has been far more disappointing.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Like that close game the Jags played against the Chargers? The Jag beat the Chargers last season and had the same regular season record in a much tougher division(AFC south sans Jags= 31-17, AFC west sans Bolts= 15-33). It's kinda weak to claim the Chargers were so much more impressive. As to the OP, I think both teams(coaches and front office included), are deserving of equal amounts of shame.
Chaka
Footballguy
Don't be obtuse.Most every pundit called for the Chargers, Patriots & Cowboys to be the best teams in the league this year.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I was also just discussing this last night.
If you're talking which team had higher expectations going into the season, it's probable that San Diego was in as good a position as anyone to take a large step forward this season. So in that respect, they've been more disappointing due to their spot in the standings.
But as far as how they've played, the Jags have probably been the bigger disappointment because they haven't really even competed. The Chargers are 4-8 and have been about as bad defensively as I've ever seen them, and now their offense is in the tank. But despite that, they've been in every one of their games right to the end. They have been awful at closing out games and just as bad at overcoming late obstacles, but in all of their losses they've been in position in the fourth quarter where a play or two here or there would turn the game in their favor. That hasn't been the case with Jacksonville, which is regularly getting blown out of the building these days.
They're unquestionably the two biggest disappointments in the AFC though. Cleveland is probably third.
If you're talking which team had higher expectations going into the season, it's probable that San Diego was in as good a position as anyone to take a large step forward this season. So in that respect, they've been more disappointing due to their spot in the standings.
But as far as how they've played, the Jags have probably been the bigger disappointment because they haven't really even competed. The Chargers are 4-8 and have been about as bad defensively as I've ever seen them, and now their offense is in the tank. But despite that, they've been in every one of their games right to the end. They have been awful at closing out games and just as bad at overcoming late obstacles, but in all of their losses they've been in position in the fourth quarter where a play or two here or there would turn the game in their favor. That hasn't been the case with Jacksonville, which is regularly getting blown out of the building these days.
They're unquestionably the two biggest disappointments in the AFC though. Cleveland is probably third.
Tau837
Footballguy
IMO that makes the Chargers more disappointing, not less disappointing. At least the Jags can point to a number of injuries, most notably a decimated OL.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Chargers lost Merriman and most of LT's season.
Jags lost the entire Oline.
Chargers are the bigger disappointment.
Jags lost the entire Oline.
Chargers are the bigger disappointment.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
The Chargers went from (arguably) the best team in the conference in 2006 to the AFC Championship game in 2007 to pathetic in 2008. I think it's Norv's losing philosophy that infected the team, but they're far and away the most disappointing team in 2008.
Even with that bad call in Denver, the Broncos kept trying to give them the division...and they kept shoving it back.
Even with that bad call in Denver, the Broncos kept trying to give them the division...and they kept shoving it back.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Cleveland is disappointing, but Cincy is far more so. If we're going to say a team who has lost most of it's OL all year among the most disappointing, you might as well throw the Patriots up there.
My top 5 disappointing teams:
1. San Diego
2. Cincy
3. Dallas
4. Indy
5. Seattle
djcolts
Footballguy
How is Indy in the top 5 of disappointments? Did you really expect them to be 10 and 2 at this point?Edit - the over under on the Colts wins this season was about 11 (Indianapolis Colts - Over 11 season wins +130, Under 11 season wins -146 ). Looks like they are right on schedule for 11 wins. Can't be a top 5 disappointment if they hit the win total they are "supposed" to - no matter how ugly the wins are.
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renesauz
IBL Representative
It's not just about pre-season expectations. You have to take into account everything that happened once the ball got rolling. The Jaguars have been hit with almost every conceivable bad thing that could happen. The Chargers have mostly just under-acheived. I'm surprised that this poll isn't more of a runaway.
renesauz
IBL Representative
So you're dissapointed in a team that loses a half dozen critical members but still plays hard and is generally competitive with a good attititude?You have given a reason to have had higher pre-season expectations of the Jags, but a lousy reason to be disapointed in the team.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
SD by far
does anyone care about the Jags?
does anyone care about the Jags?
renesauz
IBL Representative
Based on attendance, apparently more then care about the Bolts!
Jayrod
Footballguy
I voted Jags.
The implosion of Mike Peterson had a lot to do with the Jags demise that was totally unexpected. He was the centerpiece and leader of that defense, which was supposed to be a strength of this team. Now their run defense is weak and it exposes their weak offense even further.
For me personally, I knew the Chargers would fold.....OK, I didn't think they'd be this bad, but I honestly picked the Broncos over them for the division. I believe Norv Turner is a poor head coach and cannot lead or inspire or organize a team and run an effective practice. Last year's success was more due to the talent level, holdever discipline and work ethic of Marty than anything Norv did. This year we get to see what two years of Norv's coaching yields. He needs to be up in the booth calling plays and that's it. Just like Martz and Wade and Tice and Payton and tons of other coaches. These guys are better suited as coordinators, not head coaches. Their offensive or defensive prowess can get them the head job and get them some wins or even a playoff spot....but they can't win consistantly like a Parcells/Cowher/Fisher because they aren't leaders. Norv is actually one of the worst at this, IMO. These coaches underachieve.
I thought Del Rio was a good coach and has gotten more out of his teams than expected on numerous occasions in prior seasons. I thought they would be in the hunt even with the O-line troubles, but to see them fold like this is amazing to me. Monday night I was shocked at how bad they looked against a weak opponent.
Basically I saw the Chargers coming, but I was really wrong on the Jags.
The implosion of Mike Peterson had a lot to do with the Jags demise that was totally unexpected. He was the centerpiece and leader of that defense, which was supposed to be a strength of this team. Now their run defense is weak and it exposes their weak offense even further.
For me personally, I knew the Chargers would fold.....OK, I didn't think they'd be this bad, but I honestly picked the Broncos over them for the division. I believe Norv Turner is a poor head coach and cannot lead or inspire or organize a team and run an effective practice. Last year's success was more due to the talent level, holdever discipline and work ethic of Marty than anything Norv did. This year we get to see what two years of Norv's coaching yields. He needs to be up in the booth calling plays and that's it. Just like Martz and Wade and Tice and Payton and tons of other coaches. These guys are better suited as coordinators, not head coaches. Their offensive or defensive prowess can get them the head job and get them some wins or even a playoff spot....but they can't win consistantly like a Parcells/Cowher/Fisher because they aren't leaders. Norv is actually one of the worst at this, IMO. These coaches underachieve.
I thought Del Rio was a good coach and has gotten more out of his teams than expected on numerous occasions in prior seasons. I thought they would be in the hunt even with the O-line troubles, but to see them fold like this is amazing to me. Monday night I was shocked at how bad they looked against a weak opponent.
Basically I saw the Chargers coming, but I was really wrong on the Jags.
renesauz
IBL Representative
I think it's a bad idea to judge them too harshly there. The Texans might be a lot better then they're typically given credit for. They had a horrid start to the year, but have been more then competitive over the last 6-8 weeks.I just think the Jags deserve a pass because of all the injuries. The Chargers...don't.
Ookie Pringle
Footballguy
I voted Chargers. More weapons on offense.
Stinger Ray
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
The Colts started 3-4, and have won their last 5. So they have improved, but they disappointed early. They won those last 5 games by a total of 20 points. They beat Pittsburgh and New England, so good on them; but they barely beat Cleveland, Houston and San Diego - not exactly impressive.As a Colts fan, are you truly satisfied with the way they're playing?
skillz
Footballguy
Chargers. They were only a game away from the Super Bowl last year and took an undefeated Pats team to the limit on the road in the AFC championship game without LT playing. Most people probably predicted the Jags to not even win their own division whereas I think SD was almost a unanimous choice to win the AFC West. SD had higher expectations and thus are the bigger disappointment.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
I think it's completely fair to judge the Jags harshly based on MNF and the previous 5 games. The injuries have been serious but they were by far most serious during the first game of the season when they lost both starting guards. In spite of that, the Jags started 3-3. After their bye in week 7, they lost to the Browns and Cincy back to back and proceeded to go 1-5. The injuries might be an excuse for a 3-3 start, they be no means justify 1-5 over the last 6 weeks.
renesauz
IBL Representative
I'm simply suggesting that the Texans on the road were not exactly a weak opponent. Quite the opposite in fact.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Winning ugly is still winning, and the Colts were never known for winning ugly. If they didn't light it up offensively, they weren't going to win. Things are different now. They can win ugly and with defense, so while a Colts fans who is accustomed to them scoring a lot of points might be a bit disappointed with their less flashy play now, a person like myself who neither likes nor dislikes the Colts sees them as a team who is now capable of beating you many different ways.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
personally I think the Colts are going to the SB. but hey thats just me
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
It would not surprise me at all, but Bob Sanders would have to be healthy and playing well for it to happen. Thinking way ahead here...if they get the top wild card spot, they would probably play the Broncos in the first round. The Colts would be the big favorite in that game. They would then play probably the Titans in the 2nd round, and given that those two usually play pretty close games, you never know. And if they then had to play at Pitt or the Jets, well, they have already won at Pittsburgh this year, and the Jets are not exactly unbeatable at home, so you never know...
Broncoholic
Footballguy
As a Bronco fan if someone would've told me we were gonna be 3 up on the Chargers with 4 to go....
djcolts
Footballguy
Truly satisfied? Both Yes and No. No based on what I thought the talent level of the team was in pre-season, Yes after I saw what they really are. The team is an average team based on talent that is basically plucky and has Peyton, Freeney and Mathis bailing them out of games they should lose.However, I still don't see how they are one of the top 5 disappointing teams in the NFL unless you drafted nothing but Colts on your fantasy team - and, well, I can't help anyone that did that.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Well, both were considered Super Bowl contenders and one of the teams has lost to HOU, CLE and ....... wait for it, the CIN Bengals(1-10-1). What's the worst team SD has lost to?
I think the injury card excuse is just that, but for those people brandishing it do they honestly think any CLE OL injured this year has anywhere near the impact of Merriman or for that matter a Gates that still isn't 100% and wasn't even sure if he was going to be able to start the season?
I think the injury card excuse is just that, but for those people brandishing it do they honestly think any CLE OL injured this year has anywhere near the impact of Merriman or for that matter a Gates that still isn't 100% and wasn't even sure if he was going to be able to start the season?
Tau837
Footballguy
You meant JAX OL, right? Yes, I think the collective injuries to the JAX OL have been far worse than Merriman's injury. They lost their top reserve OL (Collier) in preseason; both starting guards (Manuwai and Williams) for the season in week 1; the starting center (Meester) missed most of preseason and the first 7 games; and they lost one of the replacement guards (Naole) for the rest of the season after week 8.Imagine if Shelton was lost for the season in preseason; Dielman and Goff were lost for the season in week 1; Hardwick missed several weeks; and one of the Dielman/Goff replacements was subsequently lost for the season. Don't you think that would have been worse for San Diego than the loss of Merriman?
FUBAR
Footballguy
This has nothing to do with FF, although I do have a couple Colts on my teams. Maybe I just overrated the team, but so did anyone who thought the Chargers were the best team this year. I expected Indy to be the best team in the NFL. Obviously, I overrated them, which is disappointing.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'll give them credit, but when you need a fluke play to beat a broken down Browns team that had just lost by 10 to Houston, you can't feel all that great about their chances against teams like Pittsburgh and Tennessee. If Sanders comes back 100% and the offense gets clicking, they have a chance to win the SB (Manning bowl anyone?) but as of today, they are not playing great ball. FWIW, many SB champs don't play their best ball right now, so that's perhaps a good sign for the Colts
BoltBacker
Footballguy
After seeing how the SD OL has looked healthy this season and how the SD defense has looked without a pass rush..... no, not really.
