Jason Wood
Zoo York
So which player already eligible for the Hall of Fame but not yet inducted is most deserving? This doesn't include this year's first time nominees or players not yet eligible.
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Most Deserving Player Not Yet In the Hall of Fame (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jason Wood
- Start date
Clark Griswold
Footballguy
Also went with Zimmerman, but I think both he and Monk deserve to be in.
oso diablo
Footballguy
Ray Guy.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Do you think his use of Stickum is what keeps him out? I imagine that certainly works against him, although so many of his contemporaries used it too and didn't do what he did on the field.I seem to recall Dr. Z (who was the head of the HOF induction committee until last year) said that Hayes was the highest graded CB he'd ever seen in all his years.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I thought about putting Carson on this list. He was of course a finalist last year and then went ahead and made those comments about not accepting a nomination if he wasn't put in already. I think Carson was a very good player, but I think ultimately he benefitted from the presence of Taylor in ways we can't begin to analyze. To me he's a fringe guy who could get in and I wouldn't bat an eye; but I wouldn't complain much if he didn't make it either.Ray Guy IS deserving...but it's so hard to find room for a punter
When Monk left the game he was the all-time leader in receptions and I'm not sure about yardage. He was the one that Rice had to chase down. Add to that 2 (I thought it was 3) rings and he should have gone in long before Swann and Stallworth.Craig will have to wait, but he was the standard bearer for a lot of the STUD RBs we cherish with our 1st round picks today. I thought he only has 2 rings, but maybe I'm wrong.
Family Matters
Footballguy
Art Monk without a doubt. No disrespect to any of the others listed but if I can only select one it's Monk. I've seen him play and was good. He made the other receivers betters on the skins. He made their running game better because he was respected as a WR and he blocked well for the run game.
While I picked Monk, another WR who deserves consideration is Carmichael, he set the standard that Art Monk surpassed as far as receptions and consecutive games with a catch(Ibelieve?), I think that Rice's total destruction of all WR records has left these 2 with less credit than they deserve.Zimmerman is good but another forgotten warrior is Kuechenberg from the Dolphins, he is definitely HOF material IMO.
packersfan
Footballguy
Ray Guy hands down. Is there another player who was clearly the most dominant player to ever play his position who is not in the Hall of Fame?
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
You guys aren't going back far enough. The players mentioned so far are some good players from the 80s, some of whom will get in eventually. There is no great injustice in making them wait awhile though.If you want deserving, look no further than Jerry Kramer. He was the pulling guard that helped make the Packer sweep arguably the most effective play in the history of football. That play was a major reason Kramer and the Packers won 7 championships.Kramer has been eligible for 23 years and has been a finalist 10 times, but for some reason has been snubbed year after year. 
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Koya
Footballguy
What about Harry Carson? Growing up, the ONLY guy close to him (and admittedly he was a bit ahead but not by as much as most think) is Singletary. Was the best MLB for a while in the game. Overshadowed by LT and a good LB core overall, but Harry Carson gets FAR too little respect.
Utter Chaos
Footballguy
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Hey Stu,That's interesting...I admittedly didn't know much about him, especially that he was a 10 time finalist. I guess he can take solace in the notion that he's a shoo in for induction via the veteran's committee once eligible, no?
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
By the time Taylor came into the NFL though, Carson had already made a couple of Pro-Bowls. While obviously that would not be a cause for inclusion, even with Taylor...Carson was always the leader of that defense. With that said, Jack Ham is an HOF'er and let's not underestimate the talent that was on the rest of that defense. Plus, it's tough to ignore the fact that Carson was elected to 9 Pro-Bowls. IMO, that speaks volumes about his consistency.With that said...it is surprising to see how few LB's who have played within the last 30 years have been elected to the HOF so I can understand why it's taken so long. But Carson should be there.I thought about putting Carson on this list. He was of course a finalist last year and then went ahead and made those comments about not accepting a nomination if he wasn't put in already. I think Carson was a very good player, but I think ultimately he benefitted from the presence of Taylor in ways we can't begin to analyze. To me he's a fringe guy who could get in and I wouldn't bat an eye; but I wouldn't complain much if he didn't make it either.Ray Guy IS deserving...but it's so hard to find room for a punter
oso diablo
Footballguy
crispus attucks
Footballguy
I think Vito Kab should be mentioned here. Great name.
Urinal Mint
Footballguy
Bullet Bob HayesHe's the reason the zone defense was invented.
I think Roger Craig is in the "really, really good but not quite HOF material" camp.Monk should be a shoo in. Top 5 in recepts? What more do you have to do?Zimmerman should get in and is very deserving, but probably not a shoo in.Dent, IMO, is very worthy of the Hall. An impact player for many years and very durable.Lester Hayes - just don't think his career #'s are all that overwhelming. Solid, no doubt, but I don't think he'll ever get in the HOF
Tenacious D
Footballguy
Herschel Walker.It's called the Pro Football Hall of Fame, not the NFL Hall of Fame.He is the all-time total yardage leader in professional football: 25, 283 and holds the professioal football single-season rushing record. He had 18,168 all-purpose yards in the NFL, still good for 5th all-time.I can understand giving a little less credit to Herschel's USFL accomplishments, but to completely ignore them is hypocrisy. Take a guy like Lance Alworth. All but three, and definitely all his great years, were in the AFL, yet his accomplishments aren't discriminated against.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
A fair argument...but I would much rather focus on Warren Moon if you're arguing USFL credentials.
Urinal Mint
Footballguy
Herschel Walker didn't beat his wife, however.Cheers to another USFL alum... Jim Kelly!
The Amalgamated
Footballguy
10 time finalist Jerry Kramer -- the last time nominated by the Veterans Committee. The only Nominee of the Veterans committee not to get in the hall in the last 10 years.
Koya
Footballguy
When you watched Carson play, every week, you saw a man that controlled the game. While LT dismantled the game, Carson controlled and directed it. Often into LT's monstrously disrupting hands.By the time Taylor came into the NFL though, Carson had already made a couple of Pro-Bowls. While obviously that would not be a cause for inclusion, even with Taylor...Carson was always the leader of that defense. With that said, Jack Ham is an HOF'er and let's not underestimate the talent that was on the rest of that defense. Plus, it's tough to ignore the fact that Carson was elected to 9 Pro-Bowls. IMO, that speaks volumes about his consistency.With that said...it is surprising to see how few LB's who have played within the last 30 years have been elected to the HOF so I can understand why it's taken so long. But Carson should be there.I thought about putting Carson on this list. He was of course a finalist last year and then went ahead and made those comments about not accepting a nomination if he wasn't put in already. I think Carson was a very good player, but I think ultimately he benefitted from the presence of Taylor in ways we can't begin to analyze. To me he's a fringe guy who could get in and I wouldn't bat an eye; but I wouldn't complain much if he didn't make it either.Ray Guy IS deserving...but it's so hard to find room for a punter
I'll second this.Ken Anderson was chosen by the Cincinnati Bengals in the third round of the 1971 NFL draft and became the team's starting quarterback during his second season, 1972.A very accurate short-range passer, the 6-foot-3, 212-pounder was named All-Pro quarterback and was a consensus player of the year in 1981, when he led the Bengals to the AFC championship and Super Bowl XVI, where Cincinnati lost 26-21 to the San Francisco 49ers.Anderson led the AFC in passing efficiency from 1973 through 1975 and from 1981 through 1982. He set an NFL record for completion percentage with 70.6 in 1982, when he completed 20 consecutive passes in a game, a record at the time.Anderson retired after the 1984 season. He completed 2,654 of his 4,475 passes for 32,838 yards and 197 touchdowns, with only 160 interceptions. His 59.3 completion percentage is 6th best all-time. He also ran 399 times for 2,220 yards, a 5.6-yard average, and 20 touchdowns.
This list is incomplete. Harry Carson was the captain of a SB winner. The Giants had a great teams in the 80's. They deserve to haver more than one guy in the HOF. Carson went to 9 Pro Bowls. Only injuries prevented him from going to more. The guy was monster. Played with concussions on a regular basis. When he retirted he was considered by Pro Football Weekly to be one of the top 2 MLB of alltime. What else does the guy have to do? 9 Pro Bowls as a MLB? He won a SB! He deserves it more than anybody else on that list.
Disc Shark
Footballguy
Rickey JacksonOver 100 sacks (I believe). Had to move to Frisco to get a Super Bowl. If he hadn't played for NO all those years, he'd already be in the Hall.Ditto for Archie Manning.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Jerry Kramer:5 time All Pro3 time Bro bowler5 time ChampionOnly guard to score 10 points in a championship game. ( Look it up, in addition to being the most athletic guard to ever play the position he was the Packers Placekicker in the 1962 championship game.Voted to the NFL's all 50 year team and voted the best guard in the NFL's first 50 years.When an aging and battered Packer team desperately needed a victory in the Ice Bowl they didn't run behind Forrest Gregg, Gale Gillingham, or Fuzzy Thurston. Nope, they run behind the devastating block of the best guard in the game.When Lombardi won his final championship it was Kramer who carried him from the field in triumph on his shoulders. When it came time to eulogize Lombardi it was Kramer, among others, who manfully handeled the task.Off field. Well he wrote two best selling books covering the game and never once disgraced himself.
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Disc Shark
Footballguy
Rickey Jackson - 115 career sacks, 26 career fumble recoveries.
RE: Carson....."but I think ultimately he benefitted from the presence of Taylor"Dude...give me a break. That's a ridiculous statement. Did you watch football in the late 70's and early 80s? Carson was a hell of a player before LT hit the NFL. BTW, did Craig benefit from Montana, Rice and the rest ofthe 49er offense? Did Hampton benefit from Dent, Singeltary. Marshall and the 46 defense?Did Monk benefit from Riggins, Gibbs and even Theisman?Did Brashaw benefit from the players around him? It's a team game. Every SB winner has several guys in the HOF. Carson deserves to be the 2nd Giants player from the SB winning team.
Voted for Monk. At one point in his career, Monk held the NFL record for most receptions in a season (first WR ever to break the 100 rec level I believe), most consecutive games with a reception and most career receptions. That's 3 major NFL records held by one man at the same time. He retired with the consecutive game and reception record. Throw in the rings and a couple of Pro Bowls and you have yourself a HOF career. Peter King and Dr.Z go out of their way to not vote for Monk and then lead a crusade against him getting in. They point to the fact that he doesn't have a defining catch. Big whoop. So Lynn Swann makes some pretty catches in the Super Bowl and he's in? No knock on Swanny, but his career doesn't come close to stacking up against Monks. They also point to the fact that he only caught hooks and in routes. Please. So he wasn't a long ball threat, his career ypc is higher then Marvin Harrison's. Monk for the HOF!- Ricky Jackson should go as well too. Best OLB next to LT in recent memory IMO.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6899021
The reference to the multiple abdominal surgeries is because Kramer was injured as a young man and played his first several NFL seasons with an 8 inch shard of wood inside his abdominal cavity. This was one tough guy.
The reference to the multiple abdominal surgeries is because Kramer was injured as a young man and played his first several NFL seasons with an 8 inch shard of wood inside his abdominal cavity. This was one tough guy.
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5Rings
Lurker
Who belongs in the Hall of Fame?1) A very good player for 12 seasons who puts up great career numbers. While never being the best at his position, he is annually among the top 10.2) A player who was dominant for 3-4 season then got hurt/faded away.So does Terrel Davis go in or does Art Monk? Or both?Personally, I lean toward the Terrel Davis side. I don't want to see Canton go the way of Cooperstown (Don Sutton, Tony Perez) and become a Hall of Pretty Good.
cstu
Footballguy
Amazing, I never realized Monk wasn't in the HOF. Sure, he's been passed in stats since he retired but I thought he was one of the best WR's in the era he played in.If James Lofton is in the HOF, Monk should be. They had very similar stats throughout their careers and Monk has the Superbowl rings.
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DaWidowMaker
Footballguy
I hate the Skins with a passion but Art Monk definetly deserves to be in the HOF. The guy was Mr. Clutch for a number of QB's ( J.Schroeder, D.Williams, M.Rypien, J. Thiesman)Harry Carson was also a beast...although I didn't know he made the Pro-Bowl 9 times that alone should get him in the HOF. How many players have made the Pro-Bowl 9 times and aren't in? Thats crazy.Ricky Jackson was good as was Sam Mills and Pat Swilling but they never accomplished much as a team (Didn't even win a playoff game). They were known as the best LB corps in their day but it didn't account to any Super Bowl Trophies. Ricky won't make it anytime soon...if anything Sam Mills or possibly even Swilling will make it before him. You want my vote? how about Herchel Walker? His numbers alone should put him in. He was a difference maker and his numbers back that up.
8
8623
Guest
Mills and Jackson both deserve to get it. Mills probably will, but he'll mainly be recognized for his contributions to the Panthers, not the Saints. I doubt Jackson will ever make it.Swilling was big-time overrated. Not a HOF type player by any stretch of the imagination.
5Rings
Lurker
No, I do not. I do realize Monk is a very good player, and I personally admired him as a player. Please allow me to play devils advocate here...as always, all stats from Pro-Football-Reference.com**Monk was a 3 time Pro Bowler...not a 9 time (Carson) Pro Bowler, but only 3 times in his 16 year career was he acknowledged as one of the best at his position.
**Seasons in Top 5 Receptions: 3/16
**Seasons in Top 5 Yards: 2/16
**Seasons in Top 5 TDs Rec: 0/16
**Even in his 100 catch season, other WRs like Roy Green, Mark Duper, John Stallworth, Mark Clayton, and James Lofton put up like-wise yardage and much better TD numbers.
**This stat really surprised me when I did the research. Only in 4/16 seasons did Art Monk lead his team in receiving. Guys like Charlie Brown 2, Gary Clark 5, and Ricky Sanders 3 all lead the team in receiving while Monk was a Redksin (I put 1990 as a tie, as all 3 are basically identical).
So if I'm a HOF voter, just looking at raw stats...I'm really not impressed. The guy is much closer to Don Sutton than Sandy Koufax, and he wouldn't get my HOF vote.
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Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
Some voters may feel there are already enough players from those Packer teams. The other negative that is held against Kramer is that he had trouble handling Alex Karras in their matchups. Seems petty since all players probably have had at least one opponent who gave them problems.
The problem with this kind of statistical outlook in making a case is that there is no reference point.When you apply this line of reasoning to Monk then you had better do it to others...namely Swann and Stallworth.
Swann......1/9 seasons in top 5 Yardage
0/9 seasons in top 5 receptions
highest reception total=61 with only 1 other season at 50
3 pro bowls
0/9 seasons of 1000 yds.
Stallworth...3/14 seasons in top 5 Yardage
1/14 seasons in top 5 receptions
highest reception total=80 with 3 other seasons over 50
3 pro bowls
3/14 seasons of 1000 yds.
Monk..........2/16 seasons in top 5 Yardage
3/16 seasons in top 5 receptions
highest reception total=106 with 8 other seasons over 50
3 pro bowls
5/16 seasons of 1000 yds.
The argument should not be whether he belongs, but whether Swann belongs.
If Swann is in, Stallworth should be...if Stallworth and Swann are in, Monk should be. Monk had a longer career of being productive on a team that had as many SB appearances as the other two.
