Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (1 Viewer)

[Parrothead]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

 

[Christo]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

According to Homer's link it's a mixed use facility with a community center, auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants in addition to the mosque.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

According to Homer's link it's a mixed use facility with a community center, auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants in addition to the mosque.

Plus, I don't think property taxes are exempt for religious organizations. Could be wrong though.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

According to Homer's link it's a mixed use facility with a community center, auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants in addition to the mosque.

Well if it's got a swimming pool then I'm cool with it.

 

[Christo]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

According to Homer's link it's a mixed use facility with a community center, auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants in addition to the mosque.

Well if it's got a swimming pool then I'm cool with it.

Lalalalalalalalalalalalala!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jon_mx]

There is no real legitimate reason for this. It is about like wanting to put a Nazi souvenir stand inside a synagogue. The motivation behind this is pure hatred.

 

[Parrothead]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

According to Homer's link it's a mixed use facility with a community center, auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants in addition to the mosque.

other than restaurants, those uses belong in more residential neighborhoods, not the financial district..

 

[Chargers86]

It should be pointed out (again) that the “Ground Zero mosque” these idiots are ranting about is actually a proposed community center with an auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants, in addition to a mosque. It would be housed in an existing 13-story building that’s two blocks away from Ground Zero and has no view of the area; there are two very big buildings in between the proposed community center and Ground Zero. Here is an embedded Google Map in which you can clearly see that the idea of this being a “Ground Zero mosque” is a ridiculous paranoid fantasy.

Link

There are strip clubs closer to Ground Zero than this mosqueIt offends me as an American and a New Yorker to have these mouth breathers telling me what I should and shouldn't find offensive about this

You know what I find offensive?

Religious intolerance...you know, like the kind of ignorance and hatred that caused people to fly planes into those towers in the first place

Not one word would be spoken if this were a Catholic Church.

Do you guys even care that the terrorists will probably use the videos of the New Yorkers shouting down the Muslim woman against us? This could have been a great opportunity to try and bridge some differences and show that most of us understand it is not Islam that we are at war with, it's the terrorists who use Islam as a scapegoat.

 

[Parrothead]

It should be pointed out (again) that the “Ground Zero mosque” these idiots are ranting about is actually a proposed community center with an auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants, in addition to a mosque. It would be housed in an existing 13-story building that’s two blocks away from Ground Zero and has no view of the area; there are two very big buildings in between the proposed community center and Ground Zero. Here is an embedded Google Map in which you can clearly see that the idea of this being a “Ground Zero mosque” is a ridiculous paranoid fantasy.

Link

There are strip clubs closer to Ground Zero than this mosqueIt offends me as an American and a New Yorker to have these mouth breathers telling me what I should and shouldn't find offensive about this

You know what I find offensive?

Religious intolerance...you know, like the kind of ignorance and hatred that caused people to fly planes into those towers in the first place

Not one word would be spoken if this were a Catholic Church.

Do you guys even care that the terrorists will probably use the videos of the New Yorkers shouting down the Muslim woman against us? This could have been a great opportunity to try and bridge some differences and show that most of us understand it is not Islam that we are at war with, it's the terrorists who use Islam as a scapegoat.

nope.. I said no religious uses should be there, no matter the affiliation

 

[Chargers86]

It should be pointed out (again) that the “Ground Zero mosque” these idiots are ranting about is actually a proposed community center with an auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants, in addition to a mosque. It would be housed in an existing 13-story building that’s two blocks away from Ground Zero and has no view of the area; there are two very big buildings in between the proposed community center and Ground Zero. Here is an embedded Google Map in which you can clearly see that the idea of this being a “Ground Zero mosque” is a ridiculous paranoid fantasy.

Link

There are strip clubs closer to Ground Zero than this mosqueIt offends me as an American and a New Yorker to have these mouth breathers telling me what I should and shouldn't find offensive about this

You know what I find offensive?

Religious intolerance...you know, like the kind of ignorance and hatred that caused people to fly planes into those towers in the first place

Not one word would be spoken if this were a Catholic Church.

Do you guys even care that the terrorists will probably use the videos of the New Yorkers shouting down the Muslim woman against us? This could have been a great opportunity to try and bridge some differences and show that most of us understand it is not Islam that we are at war with, it's the terrorists who use Islam as a scapegoat.

nope.. I said no religious uses should be there, no matter the affiliation

I'm not from New York, but is there anyway to find out what kind of buildings of faith that are/were the same distance from the WTC where the Mosque is supposed to be built?

 

[Christo]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

According to Homer's link it's a mixed use facility with a community center, auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants in addition to the mosque.

other than restaurants, those uses belong in more residential neighborhoods, not the financial district..

It appears you are starting to change your argument.

 

[Parrothead]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

According to Homer's link it's a mixed use facility with a community center, auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants in addition to the mosque.

other than restaurants, those uses belong in more residential neighborhoods, not the financial district..

It appears you are starting to change your argument.

huh? I don't think a religious use or community center is the highest or best use for the district..

 

[BobbyLayne]

other than restaurants, those uses belong in more residential neighborhoods, not the financial district..

NoThat area is the southern border (and on a relative basis, more affordabe) of Tribeca. It's gotten better but we need more service businesses down there. Ditto for Fidi, which has a slew of new condos. Quite a few prewar conversions as well as new glass buildings.Anyway....this is nowhere near "Ground Zero" - you won't be able to see it from anywhere in the new WTC/Freedom Tower complex, and vice versa. This whole thing should be a non-issue.

 

[Parrothead]

other than restaurants, those uses belong in more residential neighborhoods, not the financial district..

NoThat area is the southern border (and on a relative basis, more affordabe) of Tribeca. It's gotten better but we need more service businesses down there. Ditto for Fidi, which has a slew of new condos. Quite a few prewar conversions as well as new glass buildings.Anyway....this is nowhere near "Ground Zero" - you won't be able to see it from anywhere in the new WTC/Freedom Tower complex, and vice versa. This whole thing should be a non-issue.

hmm.. well, it has been a long time since I've been to lower Manhattan, so I'll take your word for it.. in general, I'm against churches developed on valuable urban real estate..

 

[Christo]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

According to Homer's link it's a mixed use facility with a community center, auditorium, swimming pool, and restaurants in addition to the mosque.

other than restaurants, those uses belong in more residential neighborhoods, not the financial district..

It appears you are starting to change your argument.

huh? I don't think a religious use or community center is the highest or best use for the district..

Like I said, you are changing your argument. You went from tax exempt to highest or best use. Have you been to Manhattan? It's not all 100 story office buildings.

 

[Parrothead]

other than restaurants, those uses belong in more residential neighborhoods, not the financial district..

It appears you are starting to change your argument.

huh? I don't think a religious use or community center is the highest or best use for the district..

Like I said, you are changing your argument. You went from tax exempt to highest or best use. Have you been to Manhattan? It's not all 100 story office buildings.

how about a use that is not tax exempt? better?

 

[BobbyLayne]

FWIW there have been a ton of synagogues and churches converted to condos in the last 10 years. It often times makes sense for the controlling organization to sell of the valuable real estate and/or relocate the worshipers (although I gather the reason this happens is dwindling attendance).

Even though I live here, I don't feel like I have a dog in this fight. But I do think it should be a local issue, and not a political football.

 

[Parrothead]

FWIW there have been a ton of synagogues and churches converted to condos in the last 10 years. It often times makes sense for the controlling organization to sell of the valuable real estate and/or relocate the worshipers (although I gather the reason this happens is dwindling attendance).

Even though I live here, I don't feel like I have a dog in this fight. But I do think it should be a local issue, and not a political football.

yep.. hence my posts..

 

[Christo]

how about a use that is not tax exempt? better?

As has been pointed out several times, it's a multi-use facility. Thus, not tax exempt.

 

[Christo]

FWIW there have been a ton of synagogues and churches converted to condos in the last 10 years. It often times makes sense for the controlling organization to sell of the valuable real estate and/or relocate the worshipers (although I gather the reason this happens is dwindling attendance).

Even though I live here, I don't feel like I have a dog in this fight. But I do think it should be a local issue, and not a political football.

yep.. hence my posts..

Actually, his post does not support yours.

 

[Parrothead]

how about a use that is not tax exempt? better?

As has been pointed out several times, it's a multi-use facility. Thus, not tax exempt.

the mosque and community center (if affiliated with a non-profit) are probably exempt, restuarants would not be (not sure about NYC laws)

 

[Yenrub]

Wasn't there a mosque in the area prior to the 9/11 attacks?

 

[BobbyLayne]

May be a :honda: as I didn't read the whole thread....

“I want tolerance, I want inclusion, and there is no better embodiment,” said Valerie Lucznikowska, 71, whose nephew, Adam Arias, died in the Sept. 11 attack. “This is a living city. Ground zero is not a static shrine.”

With a November election approaching, politicians have latched onto the issue as a high-profile platform to attack their opponents.

On Tuesday, Rick A. Lazio, a Republican running for governor, urged the landmarks commission to protect the building, constructed in the late 1850s in the Italian Renaissance palazzo style; this would effectively halt the plans for the Muslim center. The commission expects to vote on the issue in August.

“This is about getting questions answered,” Mr. Lazio told reporters. “This is about transparency. This about the safety of the people of New York.”

“Religion has nothing to do with this,” he added.

Representative Peter T. King, a Republican, joined Mr. Lazio in calling for an investigation into the financing of the project. But Andrew M. Cuomo, Mr. Lazio’s Democratic opponent and the state’s attorney general, has rebuffed those requests.

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has strongly endorsed the project, arguing that it is not the role of government to meddle in religious and business affairs.

“Government should never — never — be in the business of telling people how they should pray, or where they can pray,” Mr. Bloomberg said on Monday. “We want to make sure that everybody from around the world feels comfortable coming here, living here and praying the way they want to pray.”

The Lower Manhattan Community Board approved the project in May; if the Landmarks Preservation Commissions signs off on it (all these remarks were taken from the hearing last Tuesday), then it should be a done deal. This is a local issue, and should be decided locally. As far as I can tell, the people opposed are GOPers with no hope of ever winning an election around here, and Tea Partiers who have nothing in common with the folks who live and work here.

 

[Christo]

May be a :honda: as I didn't read the whole thread....

“I want tolerance, I want inclusion, and there is no better embodiment,” said Valerie Lucznikowska, 71, whose nephew, Adam Arias, died in the Sept. 11 attack. “This is a living city. Ground zero is not a static shrine.”

With a November election approaching, politicians have latched onto the issue as a high-profile platform to attack their opponents.

On Tuesday, Rick A. Lazio, a Republican running for governor, urged the landmarks commission to protect the building, constructed in the late 1850s in the Italian Renaissance palazzo style; this would effectively halt the plans for the Muslim center. The commission expects to vote on the issue in August.

“This is about getting questions answered,” Mr. Lazio told reporters. “This is about transparency. This about the safety of the people of New York.”

“Religion has nothing to do with this,” he added.

Representative Peter T. King, a Republican, joined Mr. Lazio in calling for an investigation into the financing of the project. But Andrew M. Cuomo, Mr. Lazio’s Democratic opponent and the state’s attorney general, has rebuffed those requests.

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has strongly endorsed the project, arguing that it is not the role of government to meddle in religious and business affairs.

“Government should never — never — be in the business of telling people how they should pray, or where they can pray,” Mr. Bloomberg said on Monday. “We want to make sure that everybody from around the world feels comfortable coming here, living here and praying the way they want to pray.”

The Lower Manhattan Community Board approved the project in May; if the Landmarks Preservation Commissions signs off on it (all these remarks were taken from the hearing last Tuesday), then it should be a done deal. This is a local issue, and should be decided locally. As far as I can tell, the people opposed are GOPers with no hope of ever winning an election around here, and Tea Partiers who have nothing in common with the folks who live and work here.

Don't forget those who are worried about the property tax consequences!

 

[Jewell]

It offends me as an American and a New Yorker to have these mouth breathers telling me what I should and shouldn't find offensive about thisYou know what I find offensive?Religious intolerance...you know, like the kind of ignorance and hatred that caused people to fly planes into those towers in the first place

We all have had to compromise something that we wanted to do because either our wife or our mother or a friend thought it was innapropriate. We may have disagreed but we did it anyway because it wasn't worth the fight when we saw how much it bothered them.

This might be the worst analogy of all time

You preach intolerance. Yet you call those with a differing view "mouth breathers". How tolerant.You call my analogy the worst of all-time, but earlier you dropped this completely irrelevant comparison to the mosque's location, "There are strip clubs closer to Ground Zero than this mosque."You've never learned that hypocrisy is not the best way to deal with people so it doesn't suprise me that you can't see the valuable lessons that can be learned in life's interactions. You then take those lessons and apply them on a grander scale.For instance, I've learned through my interactions that the unnecessarily antagonistic approach that you're taking here and the unnecessarily antagonistic approach that you're advocating NYC Muslims take on a grander scale is no way to go through life.

 

[datonn]

The attackers that I DO blame were all followers of Islam, and used that as justification for killing innocent Americans.It's completely inappropriate for followers of that faith to rub it in the faces of the people in New York and build this mosque. It's a de facto approval of the events that took place that day.

Wow. So using that same logic, it is completely inappropriate for the followers of Christianity (Roman Catholicism, in particular) to build churches anywhere along the path(s) of the Crusades. Or it is completely inappropriate for WASPs to build, well, pretty much anything in vast regions of the United States where Native Americans were slaughtered by the thousands...killing their families, their sources of food, etc. Or it is completely inappropriate for any white professional sports franchise owner to "own" the rights to any African American athlete...since that would be "rubbing slavery" in their faces.Geez. I sure hope what you posted is schtick...because if it isn't, you might be needing a little intervention from your friends and family.

 

[datonn]

Not questioning the legality, only their insistence on wontonly rubbing 9/11 in the faces of those most affected by the atrocity.I hate that people are starting to "forget" 9/11.

There is a GIGANTIC difference between forgetting 9/11 and being smart enough to recognize that two wrongs don't make a right.Question for you: What percentage of Muslims, would you estimate, subscribe to what is often referred to as "radical Islam" and support Jihad against the West? What percentage of Muslims in the world, United States, etc. (you choose the geographic region if you must) were as saddened and outraged watching those planes hit the Twin Towers as you were?!Starting to forget...c'mon. I have a client in Manhattan who still cries every time a plane flies a little too low around the Southern tip of the island. I can't watch TV for more than 2-3 days without stumbling across an old movie that shows the World Trade Center in the skyline of New York. I can't turn on the news (cable news, anyway) without being met with news from Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan...and the reason we are there, supposedly, is due in large part to those burning towers. But yeah...you're talking about something that happened in the 19th Century, right?!

 

[Jewell]

Wow. So using that same logic, it is completely inappropriate for the followers of Christianity (Roman Catholicism, in particular) to build churches anywhere along the path(s) of the Crusades. Or it is completely inappropriate for WASPs to build, well, pretty much anything in vast regions of the United States where Native Americans were slaughtered by the thousands...killing their families, their sources of food, etc. Or it is completely inappropriate for any white professional sports franchise owner to "own" the rights to any African American athlete...since that would be "rubbing slavery" in their faces.

Time, it heals wounds. The events that you're discussing happened hundreds of years ago. The atrocity at Ground Zero happened less than a decade ago. Many affected by 9/11 are still grappling with the pain of their loss. If this mosque was being proposed hundreds of years from now I'd undoubtedly be for it. Hell, I'd probably be for it a decade from now. Many New Yorkers still have feelings of anguish now, though, and I don't find that unreasonable. So why not just wait a bit? Time heals wounds.

 

[Godsbrother]

I am against it because it stabs hearts and I am hoping that peaceful muslims will refudiate the construction of the Islamic community center.

 

[kface]

I will never understand the opposition to this.

 

[urbanhack]

I wouldn't want it for the reason that it is a religious use, therefore tax exempt, on a VERY expensive piece of real estate.. NYC could make some serious tax revenues there..

LOL...do you know how many churches there are in Manhattan??? Are you a resident of New York?

 

[Chargers86]

Wow. So using that same logic, it is completely inappropriate for the followers of Christianity (Roman Catholicism, in particular) to build churches anywhere along the path(s) of the Crusades. Or it is completely inappropriate for WASPs to build, well, pretty much anything in vast regions of the United States where Native Americans were slaughtered by the thousands...killing their families, their sources of food, etc. Or it is completely inappropriate for any white professional sports franchise owner to "own" the rights to any African American athlete...since that would be "rubbing slavery" in their faces.

Time, it heals wounds. The events that you're discussing happened hundreds of years ago. The atrocity at Ground Zero happened less than a decade ago. Many affected by 9/11 are still grappling with the pain of their loss. If this mosque was being proposed hundreds of years from now I'd undoubtedly be for it. Hell, I'd probably be for it a decade from now. Many New Yorkers still have feelings of anguish now, though, and I don't find that unreasonable. So why not just wait a bit? Time heals wounds.

Sarah Palin?

 

[Jewell]

Wow. So using that same logic, it is completely inappropriate for the followers of Christianity (Roman Catholicism, in particular) to build churches anywhere along the path(s) of the Crusades. Or it is completely inappropriate for WASPs to build, well, pretty much anything in vast regions of the United States where Native Americans were slaughtered by the thousands...killing their families, their sources of food, etc. Or it is completely inappropriate for any white professional sports franchise owner to "own" the rights to any African American athlete...since that would be "rubbing slavery" in their faces.

Time, it heals wounds. The events that you're discussing happened hundreds of years ago. The atrocity at Ground Zero happened less than a decade ago. Many affected by 9/11 are still grappling with the pain of their loss. If this mosque was being proposed hundreds of years from now I'd undoubtedly be for it. Hell, I'd probably be for it a decade from now. Many New Yorkers still have feelings of anguish now, though, and I don't find that unreasonable. So why not just wait a bit? Time heals wounds.

Sarah Palin?

If that's Palin's take on this issue, then feel free to lump me with her even though I'm pretty liberal. I take stances based on how I see the issue, not how my party sees the issue or against how the opposition sees the issue. Sarah Palin is a fool, but even a fool will be right on occasion.

Not one word would be spoken if this were a Catholic Church.

Master of the obvious.

 

[pantagrapher]

A real-life New Yorker weighs in:

I first heard about this project a month or two ago, and the thing that struck me the most about it was the overwhelming support it had from the local community board in Lower Manhattan. As you are probably familiar it is nearly impossible to have a community board agree on even the most mundane issues, so to have a community board agree 29-1 on ANY this particular issue is quite an accomplishment.

Furthermore, why is land use in New York City the business of anyone else but the citizens of New York? If so, I would really like to know Sarah Palin's opinion of the Atlantic Yards (or Hudson Yards or the expansion of Columbia University) project, an issue that is 1,000,000x more controversial than this project. That's all this is: a land use issue.

Following her logic (no small feat, I might add), do I now have the right to protest the construction of a new office building in Anchorage because it may house the offices of an oil company and might insult the people who suffered from the BP oil spill?

Or can I have a say the next time some city in the "heartland" (because apparently that is the place that has veto power over land use in New York) decides to build more sprawl at the expense of more livable communities with mixed-use development, walkable streets, and public transportation? I think I should because it really "stabs me in the heart" when places do that.

This is a local issue, plain and simple. The people of New York, the ones actually attacked on 9/11 and who had to live through the aftermath, are the only ones who are effected by this and don't seem to have a problem with it, so no one else should. It is no one else's business. Sarah Palin and the "heartland" do not have permanent veto power over what gets built in Lower Manhattan. If they want a say over what happens there, my advice would be to move to New York. They might even learn something about the values of living in a multi-ethnic, multicultural community.

link

 

[Jewell]

This is a local issue, plain and simple. The people of New York, the ones actually attacked on 9/11 and who had to live through the aftermath, are the only ones who are effected by this and don't seem to have a problem with it, so no one else should.

I first heard about this project a month or two ago, and the thing that struck me the most about it was the overwhelming support it had from the local community board in Lower Manhattan. As you are probably familiar it is nearly impossible to have a community board agree on even the most mundane issues, so to have a community board agree 29-1 on ANY this particular issue is quite an accomplishment.

Good info, pantagrapher. It's always interesting to get a firsthand perspective.I agree that "This is a local issue, plain and simple." My issue was simply that it seemed unnecessary to push the construction (at this point in time) if it was going to unnecssarily hurt those most effected by 9/11. If the above statetments are true, and those most effected by 9/11 are cool with the mosque, then I would be too.

 

[datonn]

Wow. So using that same logic, it is completely inappropriate for the followers of Christianity (Roman Catholicism, in particular) to build churches anywhere along the path(s) of the Crusades. Or it is completely inappropriate for WASPs to build, well, pretty much anything in vast regions of the United States where Native Americans were slaughtered by the thousands...killing their families, their sources of food, etc. Or it is completely inappropriate for any white professional sports franchise owner to "own" the rights to any African American athlete...since that would be "rubbing slavery" in their faces.

Time, it heals wounds. The events that you're discussing happened hundreds of years ago. The atrocity at Ground Zero happened less than a decade ago. Many affected by 9/11 are still grappling with the pain of their loss. If this mosque was being proposed hundreds of years from now I'd undoubtedly be for it. Hell, I'd probably be for it a decade from now. Many New Yorkers still have feelings of anguish now, though, and I don't find that unreasonable. So why not just wait a bit? Time heals wounds.

I hear you, Jewell. However, here's the point: Islam is not responsible for the attacks of 9/11. The attackers did happen to be Muslim, yes. Of the "radical Islam" and more jihadist ilk. That said, blaming Muslims and Islam for 9/11, focusing one's anger and anguish on the hundreds of millions (or even billions?) of individuals who subscribe to that religious faith, is about as ridiculous as me calling you a pedophile if you happen to be a Christian...just because several Catholic priests abused children. Heck, you might even be a Lutheran or a Methodist! However, because you are in the same religious "tree" as Catholicism...and because probably 0.00000001% of Catholic priests abused children, someone who was molested as a child now hates you because you proclaim to be a Christian.I'm not making light of the situation. I'm not trying to forget 9/11. What I'm doing is trying to help a couple more people realize that the place in which they are targeting their anger and venom is misguided. Many New Yorkers DO still have feelings of anguish now! However, what does that have to do with Islam...versus Al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden and the lemmings who blindly followed him to their deaths?!

 

[Ron_Mexico]

this Mosque takes the prize for most inappropriate landmark in the history of things being built.

You've got to be joking.How do you stay alive ?It must suck to live in fear with all the other right wing incompetents.

 

[Statorama]

Wow. So using that same logic, it is completely inappropriate for the followers of Christianity (Roman Catholicism, in particular) to build churches anywhere along the path(s) of the Crusades. Or it is completely inappropriate for WASPs to build, well, pretty much anything in vast regions of the United States where Native Americans were slaughtered by the thousands...killing their families, their sources of food, etc. Or it is completely inappropriate for any white professional sports franchise owner to "own" the rights to any African American athlete...since that would be "rubbing slavery" in their faces.

Time, it heals wounds. The events that you're discussing happened hundreds of years ago. The atrocity at Ground Zero happened less than a decade ago. Many affected by 9/11 are still grappling with the pain of their loss. If this mosque was being proposed hundreds of years from now I'd undoubtedly be for it. Hell, I'd probably be for it a decade from now. Many New Yorkers still have feelings of anguish now, though, and I don't find that unreasonable. So why not just wait a bit? Time heals wounds.

I hear you, Jewell. However, here's the point: Islam is not responsible for the attacks of 9/11. The attackers did happen to be Muslim, yes. Of the "radical Islam" and more jihadist ilk. That said, blaming Muslims and Islam for 9/11, focusing one's anger and anguish on the hundreds of millions (or even billions?) of individuals who subscribe to that religious faith, is about as ridiculous as me calling you a pedophile if you happen to be a Christian...just because several Catholic priests abused children. Heck, you might even be a Lutheran or a Methodist! However, because you are in the same religious "tree" as Catholicism...and because probably 0.00000001% of Catholic priests abused children, someone who was molested as a child now hates you because you proclaim to be a Christian.I'm not making light of the situation. I'm not trying to forget 9/11. What I'm doing is trying to help a couple more people realize that the place in which they are targeting their anger and venom is misguided. Many New Yorkers DO still have feelings of anguish now! However, what does that have to do with Islam...versus Al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden and the lemmings who blindly followed him to their deaths?!

But why there? Why rub it in the faces of the people that had family members and friends killed that day? Go build your freaking mosque in Buffalo.All muslims are directed that all non-muslims are infidels. Just deal with the fact that muslims and islam will forever by tied to 9/11. It's just the way it is no matter how much you want to continue this religion of peace montra.

 

[CBus Alex]

There are strip clubs closer to Ground Zero than this mosque

This gives me an awesome idea. What would be a good name for a 9/11 themed titty bar?

 

[scoobygang]

But why there? Why rub it in the faces of the people that had family members and friends killed that day? Go build your freaking mosque in Buffalo.

Because some Muslims don't live or work in Buffalo.Besides lots of places in the United States had family and friends killed on 9/11. Are all those places off limits too? None of which is precisely the point, which is that 9/11 victims don't have any right to be free of offense. They don't get a veto over what every one else can do lawfully.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

But why there? Why rub it in the faces of the people that had family members and friends killed that day? Go build your freaking mosque in Buffalo.

Because some Muslims don't live or work in Buffalo.Besides lots of places in the United States had family and friends killed on 9/11. Are all those places off limits too? None of which is precisely the point, which is that 9/11 victims don't have any right to be free of offense. They don't get a veto over what every one else can do lawfully.

 

[SomeGuyNamedDavid]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

 

[scoobygang]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

No, I really wouldn't. Lots of what Islam stands for is anathema to me. That's hardly the issue. I don't have the right to prevent ideas I find offensive from being rubbed in my face. Nobody does.

 

[urbanhack]

Happened to be glancing through the newspaper site of my hometown in Indiana and saw this gem:

ReligionThursday, July 15, 2010Editor, Times-Union:I can't believe (well, actually I can) with the bunch we have running this country that they would even actually consider letting the Muslims build a mosque on or around ground zero. What a slap in the face. George Bush should have gathered the whole lot of them up after 9/11 and sent them all packing home.But nope, in the good ol' USA in the rush to make another dollar, they are buying up every gas station, store and mom-and-pop business they can get there hands on.Do Americans really own anything anymore? Really scary stuff when you stop to think about it.This all may sound racist, but didn't they attack us on our own soil just like the Japanese did? Our present bunch in D.C. needs to step in and say, "No! You can not build on this spot so pick some place else, preferably in your own country and be done with it." But I'm sure for a few more barrels of oil, this sacred ground will be traded off and they will get there mosque. Sad and disgraceful if you ask me.Lonnie Slone

 

[datonn]

But why there? Why rub it in the faces of the people that had family members and friends killed that day? Go build your freaking mosque in Buffalo.All muslims are directed that all non-muslims are infidels. Just deal with the fact that muslims and islam will forever by tied to 9/11. It's just the way it is no matter how much you want to continue this religion of peace montra.

You still don't get it. Life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you respond to it. Building a mosque within a few blocks of the WTC site isn't rubbing people's faces in anything. That is how a (probably small) minority of individuals are interpreting/responding to it. For any number of reasons...including (but not limited to) racism, prejudice, ignorance, fear, and/or religious intolerance.Example: I've lost four people very close to me in 20 years at the hands of drunk drivers. Now if I were you, I'd be organizing a march on Washington D.C. demanding that Prohibition once again becomes the law of the land! Is alcohol evil, however? Are the people who produce/sell it evil? Are the people who consume it evil?I hope your answer is no. Well then, who do I blame for the death of those four individuals?! I might be Captain Obvious for saying it, but I blame the three drivers of the vehicles who struck and killed my friends/family. Did Anheuser Busch or the Miller Brewing Company hold a gun to those people's heads and force them to:A. DrinkB. Drink too many (get drunk)C. Decide to drive home(?) No. If you want to blame someone for the accidents, you blame the people behind the wheel.So when we as a nation have planes slam into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, we.......invade Iraq?!

 

[datonn]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam Christianity and the historical actions of the Christian Church is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

Fixed that last posting there for you, SGND. Seriously though, radical Islamists looking for a little jihad could fly planes into buildings around the globe on a weekly basis for 100 years, and they probably still wouldn't have a death toll that comes anywhere close to the death toll amassed in the name of Christianity over the past 2,000 years.

 

[timschochet]

There is no real legitimate reason for this. It is about like wanting to put a Nazi souvenir stand inside a synagogue. The motivation behind this is pure hatred.

This is a terrible analogy. A much better analogy would be building a German Lutheran church next to synagogue, which happens all the time. Or putting a German Catholic church inside the state of Israel, which also happens all the time.For the original memorial service for the World Trade Center, President Bush insisted that one of the speakers be a Moslem cleric. This was the correct decision on his part. We are not at war with the religion of Islam, no matter how many people like you try to argue that we are.

 

[urbanhack]

All muslims are directed that all non-muslims are infidels. Just deal with the fact that muslims and islam will forever by tied to 9/11. It's just the way it is no matter how much you want to continue this religion of peace montra.

Your bait stinks.

 

[SomeGuyNamedDavid]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

No, I really wouldn't. Lots of what Islam stands for is anathema to me. That's hardly the issue. I don't have the right to prevent ideas I find offensive from being rubbed in my face. Nobody does.

I understand what you are saying, but this is about more than just offensive ideas. What we are doing is akin to inviting the enemy in and waiting for them to destroy us from within.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Happened to be glancing through the newspaper site of my hometown in Indiana and saw this gem:

ReligionThursday, July 15, 2010Editor, Times-Union:I can't believe (well, actually I can) with the bunch we have running this country that they would even actually consider letting the Muslims build a mosque on or around ground zero. What a slap in the face. George Bush should have gathered the whole lot of them up after 9/11 and sent them all packing home.But nope, in the good ol' USA in the rush to make another dollar, they are buying up every gas station, store and mom-and-pop business they can get there hands on.Do Americans really own anything anymore? Really scary stuff when you stop to think about it.This all may sound racist, but didn't they attack us on our own soil just like the Japanese did? Our present bunch in D.C. needs to step in and say, "No! You can not build on this spot so pick some place else, preferably in your own country and be done with it." But I'm sure for a few more barrels of oil, this sacred ground will be traded off and they will get there mosque. Sad and disgraceful if you ask me.Lonnie Slone