Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (2 Viewers)

[scoobygang]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

No, I really wouldn't. Lots of what Islam stands for is anathema to me. That's hardly the issue. I don't have the right to prevent ideas I find offensive from being rubbed in my face. Nobody does.

I understand what you are saying, but this is about more than just offensive ideas. What we are doing is akin to inviting the enemy in and waiting for them to destroy us from within.

A bedrock principle of the Western civiliazation that you want to protect is that the answer to an offensive idea is a better idea.

 

[timschochet]

[i understand what you are saying, but this is about more than just offensive ideas. What we are doing is akin to inviting the enemy in and waiting for them to destroy us from within.

So in other words, "the enemy" is all of Islam? The war is the United States vs. all Muslims?

 

[SomeGuyNamedDavid]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

No, I really wouldn't. Lots of what Islam stands for is anathema to me. That's hardly the issue. I don't have the right to prevent ideas I find offensive from being rubbed in my face. Nobody does.

I understand what you are saying, but this is about more than just offensive ideas. What we are doing is akin to inviting the enemy in and waiting for them to destroy us from within.

A bedrock principle of the Western civiliazation that you want to protect is that the answer to an offensive idea is a better idea.

Islam doesn't subscribe to principles of Western civilization. In fact, they oppose just about everything that makes the US a great nation.

 

[flufhed]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

No, I really wouldn't. Lots of what Islam stands for is anathema to me. That's hardly the issue. I don't have the right to prevent ideas I find offensive from being rubbed in my face. Nobody does.

I don't know that anyone is saying the government should prevent the mosque from being built. I certainly haven't made that argument. In fact, I am against this mosque, but have specifically said there is nothing the government can or should do about it.

 

[SomeGuyNamedDavid]

[i understand what you are saying, but this is about more than just offensive ideas. What we are doing is akin to inviting the enemy in and waiting for them to destroy us from within.

So in other words, "the enemy" is all of Islam? The war is the United States vs. all Muslims?

No, not at all. I'd guess that many, if not most, American Muslims have no idea what Muslim leaders in the rest of the world truly stand for. It's kind of like the Vatican and American Catholics. There's a loose connection there, but the American franchise is quite disconnected from the corporate HQ.

 

[scoobygang]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

No, I really wouldn't. Lots of what Islam stands for is anathema to me. That's hardly the issue. I don't have the right to prevent ideas I find offensive from being rubbed in my face. Nobody does.

I don't know that anyone is saying the government should prevent the mosque from being built. I certainly haven't made that argument. In fact, I am against this mosque, but have specifically said there is nothing the government can or should do about it.

So you're "against the mosque" in the same way that I'm "against the Bachelorette?"

 

[timschochet]

Islam doesn't subscribe to principles of Western civilization.

Neither does Christianity. Or Judiasm. Or Buddhism. Or Hinduism.Western civilization is superior (IMO) to all other civilizations in history because of the ideas of the Enlightenment, which include individual rights, the seeking of knowledge and reason. Historically, the Muslim religion actually tolerated these aspects of human existence much better than the Christian world did. Up until around the 1500s, it was the Muslim world that had the greatest scientists, explorers, mathematicians, writers, scholars, and academic freedom. During these glory days for Islam, the Muslims also treated minorities much better than the Christian world did, especially Jews and Africans.

 

[timschochet]

[i understand what you are saying, but this is about more than just offensive ideas. What we are doing is akin to inviting the enemy in and waiting for them to destroy us from within.

So in other words, "the enemy" is all of Islam? The war is the United States vs. all Muslims?

No, not at all. I'd guess that many, if not most, American Muslims have no idea what Muslim leaders in the rest of the world truly stand for. It's kind of like the Vatican and American Catholics. There's a loose connection there, but the American franchise is quite disconnected from the corporate HQ.

American Muslims are not stupid and they know exactly what Muslims leaders are up to. American Catholics generally know what the Vatican is up to, as well.

 

[quickhands]

will the call to prayer be broadcast multiple times a day. Was a bit of an issue in hamtramck, mi.

 

[SomeGuyNamedDavid]

[i understand what you are saying, but this is about more than just offensive ideas. What we are doing is akin to inviting the enemy in and waiting for them to destroy us from within.

So in other words, "the enemy" is all of Islam? The war is the United States vs. all Muslims?

No, not at all. I'd guess that many, if not most, American Muslims have no idea what Muslim leaders in the rest of the world truly stand for. It's kind of like the Vatican and American Catholics. There's a loose connection there, but the American franchise is quite disconnected from the corporate HQ.

American Muslims are not stupid and they know exactly what Muslims leaders are up to. American Catholics generally know what the Vatican is up to, as well.

What color is the sky in your world? Most American Catholics that I know don't have the foggiest idea about what their Church officially teaches. Admittedly I know far fewer Muslims, but the Americanized version of Islam is certainly very different than that which is taught elsewhere.

 

[Parrothead]

will the call to prayer be broadcast multiple times a day. Was a bit of an issue in hamtramck, mi.

will there be any public beheadings or stonings?? that could attract a crowd

 

[timschochet]

[i understand what you are saying, but this is about more than just offensive ideas. What we are doing is akin to inviting the enemy in and waiting for them to destroy us from within.

So in other words, "the enemy" is all of Islam? The war is the United States vs. all Muslims?

No, not at all. I'd guess that many, if not most, American Muslims have no idea what Muslim leaders in the rest of the world truly stand for. It's kind of like the Vatican and American Catholics. There's a loose connection there, but the American franchise is quite disconnected from the corporate HQ.

American Muslims are not stupid and they know exactly what Muslims leaders are up to. American Catholics generally know what the Vatican is up to, as well.

What color is the sky in your world? Most American Catholics that I know don't have the foggiest idea about what their Church officially teaches. Admittedly I know far fewer Muslims, but the Americanized version of Islam is certainly very different than that which is taught elsewhere.

Blue. With regard to the Catholic church, in which the leadership is much more singular than the Islamic religion, most American Catholics might not know each individual detail, but believe me, they know what the basics are when it comes to abortion, gays, capital punishment, etc. They might not always agree, but they know.American Muslims, I would guess, and from the ones I know personally (several) are extremely aware. They have to be, because of the fear of discrimination against them that always looms beneath the surface in this country, sometimes bursting into the open as it has in this instance.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

Perhaps you should take more time to understand what America is all about.

 

[shake zula]

Is this thread dead?

 

[flufhed]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

No, I really wouldn't. Lots of what Islam stands for is anathema to me. That's hardly the issue. I don't have the right to prevent ideas I find offensive from being rubbed in my face. Nobody does.

I don't know that anyone is saying the government should prevent the mosque from being built. I certainly haven't made that argument. In fact, I am against this mosque, but have specifically said there is nothing the government can or should do about it.

So you're "against the mosque" in the same way that I'm "against the Bachelorette?"

It's difficult to answer that question without knowing your feelings about the Bachelorette.

 

[urbanhack]

::newt::

 

[cr8f]

The first one was a community center with a prayer room that could be used by any church(not a mosque).

 

[Parrothead]

The first one was a community center with a prayer room that could be used by any church(not a mosque).

why does one need a special "room" to pray..I say fill it with pool tables, plasmas, and beer taps.. pray at yer own damn house

 

[perry147]

Link

Rational Conservatives on the Manhattan Mosque

While Sarah Palin, Pam Geller and Newt Gingrich are making fools of themselves opposing the opening of a mosque a few blocks from Ground Zero, rational conservatives Daniel Larison and Conor Friedersdorf are pointing out just how ridiculous they're being. Friedersdorf points out that while the wingnuts are calling the entire area surrounding Ground Zero "sacred ground," there are at least two strip joints within a two block radius of the place. And he effectively punctures this populist nonsense:

Even worse, opponents of the project are opportunistically invoking the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, even going so far as to appropriate their imagery. "Join the fight to kill The Ground Zero Mosque," intones a video advertisement released by a group called National Republican Trust PAC. "A mosque at Ground Zero must not stand. The political class says nothing. The politicians are doing nothing to stop it. But we Americans will be heard. "

As an American in good standing, I'd like to be heard--and to make sure that James Madison, a colleague of mine in citizenship, is heard too. The fourth president of the U.S. once wrote, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." It's a line that National Republican Trust neglects to remember. Perhaps "the political class" isn't doing anything to stop the construction of an Islamic community center because the Constitution forbids it. Even worse, the advertisement I've mentioned engages in just the sort of religious bigotry that the First Amendment is meant to guard against. "On Sept. 11 they declared war against us," the narrator says. "And to celebrate that murder of 3,000 Americans they want to build a monstrous 13-story mosque at ground zero."

It's the word "they" that's doing all the misleading work. The people who declared war against us on Sept. 11, 2001, were al Qaeda radicals led by Osama bin Laden and his followers. Who are the people trying to build a 13-story Islamic community center that includes a single floor of prayer space, a swimming pool, a library, a child-care center, a concert hall, a gym, a culinary school and a restaurant? "They" are an Islamic group that has long run a mosque in the area for New York City Muslims. On 9/11, "they" found their community under attack, too. It is slander to assert that they've declared war against us, or that their motive in building a community center is celebrating the murder of Americans.

Larison goes one step further, pointing out that the opponents of the mosque are, in fact, playing directly into the hands of the jihadists:

As I said earlier this year: The greatest danger all along has been that we would destroy or corrupt our institutions and our values out of an irrational exaggeration of the threat posed by jihadists, and that we would make this even worse through a widely shared blindness to the consequences of our national security and foreign policies. One reason anti-jihadist commentary has seemed less and less persuasive to me over the last decade is that anti-jihadists have done nothing to avoid these dangers and have done all that they could to make them worse.

Anti-jihadists keep making the same errors over and over. Instead of exploiting differences between jihadists and non-jihadists, among different kinds of Islamists, and between different groups of jihadists, anti-jihadists have been perfectly content to roll all of them into a single "Islamofascist" menace. That artificially inflates the strength of actual jihadist enemies by lending credibility to their propaganda, and as a result it makes jihadist causes more appealing. In this case, anti-jihadists are compounding their error by confusing the equivalent of Muslim ecumenists with hard-line Islamists. That is exactly what Gingrich does when he claims that the project is a "a test of the timidity, passivity and historic ignorance of American elites" in the face of demands from aggressive Islamists. It's not just that anti-jihadists are conflating any and all Muslims together here, but they are vilifying as aggressors some of the least aggressive Muslims around.

And then he absolutely blisters the wingnuts for their dishonesty and their demagoguery:

Whatever else one wants to say about the proposed Islamic center or the Cordoba Initiative, one thing that ought to be obvious right away is that this is a matter to be decided by New Yorkers, especially by the people who live in the immediate vicinity. The local community board supported this project almost unanimously, which should make the protestations of a politician parachuting in from the other side of the continent as irrelevant as they are ridiculous.

I do see how the building project might be seen as provocative at first, but it is actually quite hard to see how the project is an insult or such an "intolerable mistake" that it merits denunciations from national political figures who have zero connection to the place. Because of the 9/11 attacks at that location, many people seem intent on treating what happens there as something that affects the entire country, but it doesn't. It is conventional to refer to it as "sacred ground," as Palin does, but it is actually the site of an atrocity, not a place where miracles were performed or one where relics are laid to rest. Commemorating the people who were murdered there is right, but treating it as a locus sanctus with its own religious (or in this case anti-religious) significance is frankly very strange. Conservatives certainly don't have to like an organization advised by the likes of Karen Armstrong, but they should be able to see that opposing this project doesn't really make any sense...

It is telling that the best Palin can come up with to justify her opposition to the project is that the organization's lead cleric, Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf, referred to U.S. policies as accessories to the crime in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. That was not the most politic thing for a Muslim cleric to say at the time, but he was not saying that the "blame be placed on the innocents." Rauf seems to have been saying that the U.S. government contributed to the chain of events that led to the attacks. To the extent that U.S. policies provoked blowback in the form of the attacks, he was basically correct. No less significant is the fact that Palin refers to the blockade of Gaza as justifiable in the same article in which she refers to the building project as intolerable. According to Palin, the immiseration of over a million people through deliberate economic warfare and collective punishment is perfectly all right, attempts to bring an end to that immiseration are wrong, and building a structure on legally purchased private property with the approval of the large majority of the area's residents is intolerable. Perhaps the only thing worse than these warped judgments is the pretense that Palin is the voice of "common moral sense," when she is actually representing the lowest common denominator of shameless demagoguery.

Hear, hear.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

Perhaps you should take more time to understand what America is all about.

Freedom of religion? Sure. Forgiveness? Not so much. Build your terror temple somewhere else. Islamists are more like a virus than anything else.

 

[urbanhack]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

Perhaps you should take more time to understand what America is all about.

Freedom of religion? Sure. Forgiveness? Not so much. Build your terror temple somewhere else. Islamists are more like a virus than anything else.

I'm surprised you feel this way.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

Perhaps you should take more time to understand what America is all about.

Freedom of religion? Sure. Forgiveness? Not so much. Build your terror temple somewhere else. Islamists are more like a virus than anything else.

I'm surprised you feel this way.

Why do you believe we have to appease these people?

 

[timschochet]

When I was in San Francisco a few weeks back I took my kids to see the beautiful Japanese Gardens at Golden Gate Park. It's a true wonderland of flowers, landscaping, bridges, little waterfalls and pagodas, one of the prettiest gardens I have ever seen. It's been there for nearly 100 years now.

However, during the decade of the 1940s, it was for the first and only time not a popular place to visit. In fact, the Hearst-owned San Francisco Examiner suggested in early 1942 that it should be torn down flower by flower, brick by brick. Thankfully this was not done, but the gardens were renamed "The Oriental Gardens" during the entire WWII period. Seems pretty silly, doesn't it?

I believe that our country is composed mostly of good people, and that given time to reflect, we usually reject these populist storms that create so much hatred and tension when they are at their height. I predict that in 10 or 20 years from now we will look back at this current controversy and shake our heads- what were conservatives thinking?

 

[TommyGilmore]

More people would understand the objections if they took more time to understand what Islam is all about and how they have historically operated in the world.

Perhaps you should take more time to understand what America is all about.

Freedom of religion? Sure. Forgiveness? Not so much. Build your terror temple somewhere else. Islamists are more like a virus than anything else.

I'm surprised you feel this way.

Why do you believe we have to appease these people?

"these people", as in, "law-abiding American citizens protected by the Constitution of the United States"?

 

[jamny]

“Cordoba,” means "Islamic rule in the West". Maybe they should just build the mosque in a shape of an airplane. Have the revealed the source of the funding yet? What a great victory this will be seen as to the rest of the muslim world.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

“Cordoba,” means "Islamic rule in the West".

Link?

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Oh, and Lazio is a hack

That entire article is essentially campaign propaganda for Lazio's battle with Andrew Cuomo for the governorship

Do you think it's a coincidence that the article essentially devolves into "Why won't Andrew Cuomo ask them to open their books?"

 

[timschochet]

What a great victory this will be seen as to the rest of the muslim world.

No, it will be a great victory for America, for everything we are supposed to stand for as Americans. On the other hand, if we prevent it, THAT will be victory, not for the Muslim world as a whole, but for the extremists within that world who want to convince the majority of Muslims that we hate their religion.

 

[Parrothead]

they should turn it into a suicide bomber training facility..

 

[jamny]

“Cordoba,” means "Islamic rule in the West".

Link?

link

Iraqi Columnist in Arab Liberal Online Daily Elaph: The Hostile and Provocative Name Chosen for the Planned Ground Zero Cordoba Mosque Symbolizes Dreams of Expansion and Invasion of the Territory of the Other

Iraqi-American columnist Khudhayr Taher published an article in the Arab online liberal daily Elaph.com on May 18, 2010 in which he warns against the desire to turn the U.S. into a Muslim country. Taher called upon the American administration to ban the building of mosques, and especially the Cordoba Mosque, planned for construction near Ground Zero in New York, because, he says, these mosques pose a danger to the security of the U.S. as they are centers for spreading extremist and terrorist ideas.

Following is a translation of excerpts from the article:

"In these days, the issue of the Muslim decision to build a mosque near the place where the crime of the cowardly September 11 terrorist attacks took place has come up. We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque. It is well known that the first Cordoba Mosque was built by Muslims in a city in Spain, after they occupied this Christian country, killing its men and capturing its women to bring them to Arab countries as slaves and servants to serve their sexual pleasure. The Arabs and Muslims have never ceased to take pride and bask in the glory of this imperialist history, which they consider to be a symbol of their strength and power, and they are unashamed of the fact that the annals [of their history] are full of shameful crimes.

"Today, it seems as though some Muslims in America are enamored of the dream of bringing back this ugly imperialist Muslim history, which is based on occupying peaceful peoples, on trying to force them to change their religious beliefs by the sword, on killing the men, and on abducting the women from their homes and bringing them to their own countries. Choosing the name 'Cordoba House' for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…

"New York has many mosques, for Sunnis and for Shiites. Of course there is a significant infiltration of extremist terrorist ideology among some of the Sunnis, and likewise there is a significant infiltration of the Iranian intelligence [apparatus] among some of the Shi'ites. This infiltration, both among the Sunnis and among the Shi'ites, has spread across the U.S. New York State has many mosques, and doesn't need any more of them – not to mention that for work reasons Muslims do not attend mosque every day, but only on Saturdays and Sundays. Therefore, the Muslims have no real need for the construction of this mosque, which constitutes a provocation against the sensibilities of the Americans and a reminder for them of the Muslim imperialism in Spain and of the acts it committed against the Christians – such as murder, pillage, taking captives, and aggression against women.

"As a Muslim and as an American citizen, I hope that the U.S. government will issue a decision to confiscate the funds designated for the construction of this mosque, and to transfer them to a budget for rebuilding the towers of the World Trade Center in New York, [and also to] ban the building of [additional] mosques in the U.S., because there is no real need for them. Also, [we must] take into account the danger that they [i.e. the mosques] pose because they are hothouses for extremist terrorist ideology and for hatred of the other, and because they carry out open missionary activities considered a violation of the freedom and religion of others."

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Well that's hardly the same thing now, is it?

 

[Jewell]

What a great victory this will be seen as to the rest of the muslim world.

No, it will be a great victory for America, for everything we are supposed to stand for as Americans.

It'll be "Peace for our time!"

 

[jonessed]

My only problem with this is where the money is going to come from. The group making the proposal has very limited resources, but they are obviously expecting some pretty large cash donations to appear soon. The feds need to do a thorough job of vetting the money because if it turns out that any of it came from organizations later found out to be supporters of terrorism the #### is really going to hit the fan.

Edit: I suppose I also have a problem with the proposed opening date. Comments from the Imam lead me to believe he isn't a big US supporter. Of course that doesn't mean he has bad intentions. I'm not exactly a US supporter either. However, it does make me question why he would propose the 9/11 anniversary as the grand opening date. It's going to either be as a memorial or as a stick in the eye and his public comments really don't support the former.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

“Cordoba,” means "Islamic rule in the West".

Link?

link

Iraqi Columnist in Arab Liberal Online Daily Elaph: The Hostile and Provocative Name Chosen for the Planned Ground Zero Cordoba Mosque Symbolizes Dreams of Expansion and Invasion of the Territory of the Other

Iraqi-American columnist Khudhayr Taher published an article in the Arab online liberal daily Elaph.com on May 18, 2010 in which he warns against the desire to turn the U.S. into a Muslim country. Taher called upon the American administration to ban the building of mosques, and especially the Cordoba Mosque, planned for construction near Ground Zero in New York, because, he says, these mosques pose a danger to the security of the U.S. as they are centers for spreading extremist and terrorist ideas.

Following is a translation of excerpts from the article:

"In these days, the issue of the Muslim decision to build a mosque near the place where the crime of the cowardly September 11 terrorist attacks took place has come up. We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque. It is well known that the first Cordoba Mosque was built by Muslims in a city in Spain, after they occupied this Christian country, killing its men and capturing its women to bring them to Arab countries as slaves and servants to serve their sexual pleasure. The Arabs and Muslims have never ceased to take pride and bask in the glory of this imperialist history, which they consider to be a symbol of their strength and power, and they are unashamed of the fact that the annals [of their history] are full of shameful crimes.

"Today, it seems as though some Muslims in America are enamored of the dream of bringing back this ugly imperialist Muslim history, which is based on occupying peaceful peoples, on trying to force them to change their religious beliefs by the sword, on killing the men, and on abducting the women from their homes and bringing them to their own countries. Choosing the name 'Cordoba House' for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…

"New York has many mosques, for Sunnis and for Shiites. Of course there is a significant infiltration of extremist terrorist ideology among some of the Sunnis, and likewise there is a significant infiltration of the Iranian intelligence [apparatus] among some of the Shi'ites. This infiltration, both among the Sunnis and among the Shi'ites, has spread across the U.S. New York State has many mosques, and doesn't need any more of them – not to mention that for work reasons Muslims do not attend mosque every day, but only on Saturdays and Sundays. Therefore, the Muslims have no real need for the construction of this mosque, which constitutes a provocation against the sensibilities of the Americans and a reminder for them of the Muslim imperialism in Spain and of the acts it committed against the Christians – such as murder, pillage, taking captives, and aggression against women.

"As a Muslim and as an American citizen, I hope that the U.S. government will issue a decision to confiscate the funds designated for the construction of this mosque, and to transfer them to a budget for rebuilding the towers of the World Trade Center in New York, [and also to] ban the building of [additional] mosques in the U.S., because there is no real need for them. Also, [we must] take into account the danger that they [i.e. the mosques] pose because they are hothouses for extremist terrorist ideology and for hatred of the other, and because they carry out open missionary activities considered a violation of the freedom and religion of others."

 

[jamny]

What a great victory this will be seen as to the rest of the muslim world.

No, it will be a great victory for America, for everything we are supposed to stand for as Americans. On the other hand, if we prevent it, THAT will be victory, not for the Muslim world as a whole, but for the extremists within that world who want to convince the majority of Muslims that we hate their religion.

They will promote it as a victory either way but the actual mosque will be a symbolic victory for years to come. They will look at it and say "see what we have done!"

 

[Tremendous Upside]

What a great victory this will be seen as to the rest of the muslim world.

No, it will be a great victory for America, for everything we are supposed to stand for as Americans. On the other hand, if we prevent it, THAT will be victory, not for the Muslim world as a whole, but for the extremists within that world who want to convince the majority of Muslims that we hate their religion.

They will promote it as a victory either way but the actual mosque will be a symbolic victory for years to come. They will look at it and say "see what we have done!"

You sure can speak with authority as to what lots and lots of nameless faceless people are going to say and doIt's pretty impressive

 

[jon_mx]

they should turn it into a suicide bomber training facility..

It will double as a place to store explosives. Allowing this is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

they should turn it into a suicide bomber training facility..

It will double as a place to store explosives.

 

[timschochet]

“Cordoba,” means "Islamic rule in the West".

Link?

link

Iraqi Columnist in Arab Liberal Online Daily Elaph: The Hostile and Provocative Name Chosen for the Planned Ground Zero Cordoba Mosque Symbolizes Dreams of Expansion and Invasion of the Territory of the Other

"As a Muslim and as an American citizen, I hope that the U.S. government will issue a decision to confiscate the funds designated for the construction of this mosque, and to transfer them to a budget for rebuilding the towers of the World Trade Center in New York, [and also to] ban the building of [additional] mosques in the U.S., because there is no real need for them. Also, [we must] take into account the danger that they [i.e. the mosques] pose because they are hothouses for extremist terrorist ideology and for hatred of the other, and because they carry out open missionary activities considered a violation of the freedom and religion of others."

So let me get this straight; he claims to care about "freedom of religion" and yet he wants us to confiscate all funds for the construction of the mosque? I question whether the author of this article has any idea of American freedoms.As far as the name of the mosque goes: the reason the Southern Baptist Church calls itself that rather than simply calling itself the "American Baptist Church" as it once did, is because it split from the northern church over the issue of slavery. Since 150 years after this split it still calls itself the Southern Baptist Church, I guess that means we can infer that it still supports slavery, right?

This is like the theater of the absurd.

 

[urbanhack]

What a great victory this will be seen as to the rest of the muslim world.

No, it will be a great victory for America, for everything we are supposed to stand for as Americans. On the other hand, if we prevent it, THAT will be victory, not for the Muslim world as a whole, but for the extremists within that world who want to convince the majority of Muslims that we hate their religion.

They will promote it as a victory either way but the actual mosque will be a symbolic victory for years to come. They will look at it and say "see what we have done!"

You sure can speak with authority as to what lots and lots of nameless faceless people are going to say and doIt's pretty impressive

I'm going to check with my neighbor tonight and see if he will be throwing party.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

What a great victory this will be seen as to the rest of the muslim world.

No, it will be a great victory for America, for everything we are supposed to stand for as Americans. On the other hand, if we prevent it, THAT will be victory, not for the Muslim world as a whole, but for the extremists within that world who want to convince the majority of Muslims that we hate their religion.

They will promote it as a victory either way but the actual mosque will be a symbolic victory for years to come. They will look at it and say "see what we have done!"

You sure can speak with authority as to what lots and lots of nameless faceless people are going to say and doIt's pretty impressive

I think he uses a crystal ball.

 

[jon_mx]

they should turn it into a suicide bomber training facility..

It will double as a place to store explosives.

Can you explain the motivation for this location? This is not being driven by your everyday Muslim, this is being pushed by some pretty radical ones trying to make a statement at the very least, and the statement they are making is not a pretty one.

 

[Parrothead]

What a great victory this will be seen as to the rest of the muslim world.

No, it will be a great victory for America, for everything we are supposed to stand for as Americans. On the other hand, if we prevent it, THAT will be victory, not for the Muslim world as a whole, but for the extremists within that world who want to convince the majority of Muslims that we hate their religion.

They will promote it as a victory either way but the actual mosque will be a symbolic victory for years to come. They will look at it and say "see what we have done!"

You sure can speak with authority as to what lots and lots of nameless faceless people are going to say and doIt's pretty impressive

I'm going to check with my neighbor tonight and see if he will be throwing party.

it will be a "infiltrating the infidels" theme.. go dressed as The Great Satan..

 

[Tremendous Upside]

they should turn it into a suicide bomber training facility..

It will double as a place to store explosives.

everyday Muslim

I love this storeYou should see the deal I got on taqiyahs

 

[TommyGilmore]

“Cordoba,” means "Islamic rule in the West".

Link?

I think it means, "featuring soft Corinthian leather".

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

they should turn it into a suicide bomber training facility..

It will double as a place to store explosives.

Can you explain the motivation for this location? This is not being driven by your everyday Muslim, this is being pushed by some pretty radical ones trying to make a statement at the very least, and the statement they are making is not a pretty one.

These are the same people that promote "no losers" at youth sporting events. They're the same people that want hard workers to pay for non-workers and non-citizens. So, if they can explain the motivation, it's likely to be along those lines.

 

[jamny]

Hopefully they'll build it in time for KSM to pray there when he comes for his trial downtown. It would be wrong to deny him of course.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

Hopefully they'll build it in time for KSM to pray there when he comes for his trial downtown. It would be wrong to deny him of course.

People make mistakes, jamny. It's time to forgive and forget.(Instead of using this for political grandstanding.)

 

[jamny]

Hopefully they'll build it in time for KSM to pray there when he comes for his trial downtown. It would be wrong to deny him of course.

People make mistakes, jamny. It's time to forgive and forget.(Instead of using this for political grandstanding.)

I know. I should be tolerant like they are. I wonder how tall the minaret will be. Hopefully taller than the Trinity Church steeple. It should look awesome as part of the NY skyline.

 

[urbanhack]

Hopefully they'll build it in time for KSM to pray there when he comes for his trial downtown. It would be wrong to deny him of course.

People make mistakes, jamny. It's time to forgive and forget.(Instead of using this for political grandstanding.)

I know. I should be tolerant like they are.

All Muslims had a hand in 9/11?