Muslims in NYC Planning to Build Second Mosque Near Ground Zero (2 Viewers)

[tommyboy]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/30/who...nd-zero-mosque/

interesting

 

[ScottyFargo]

It seems you're suffering from a case of selective memory.

In his OP, tim said Bush "should be speaking out very firmly." I responded that he had "no more responsibility to speak out than I do." tim then brought duty into the picture:

Bush was president of the United States. That gives him great responsibilities for the rest of his life. IMO it is his absolute duty to speak out on issues like this one. Other former presidents have understood this duty and acted upon it, and even risked the ridicule of their own political party by doing so. If this were a minor issue I would agree that he needn't say anything. But the issue of whether or not we as Americans blame Islam in general for 9/11 is central to Bush's presidency and his legacy. He needs to speak out.

Christo is correct. I wrote that Bush has a duty to speak out on this subject, and I stand by that.

You guys can argue around that point then, I missed the post where you asserted that. I agree it would say a lot if he would step forward. I think that whether or not he has a duty it would be a very good idea for Bush to step forward on this issue.

 

[Woogie Lee]

1. Neither you nor the people you're quoting have any idea what Sharia law involves. Your use of the term is so nebulous it harbors on ridiculous. It's like saying John Calvin imposed "Christian Law" on Geneva. He imposed Calvin law, and called it Christian law.2. It is my firm conviction that your view of this situation, and those who share your view, are going to increase the chances of more terrorism to strike at this country. You are making our enemies' job easier, and you are helping to increase their numbers.

i'm positive i've read 100 times more on the subject of islam and sharia than you have.

 

[EasyMorningRebel]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/30/who...nd-zero-mosque/

interesting

He seems nice.

 

[Offa]

you forgot option 4- I don't care what form of Islam he is, its still a stupid idea to build the mosque. He could be the most liberal, flamboyant effusiviely Richard Simmons Gay™ Imam in the world and it would still be a stupid idea.

OK. So why are you trying to paint him as some sort of radical terrorist supporter if you don't care if he does? Why are you spreading lies and half-truths about Islam when you don't think it matters what he believes?

 

[Offa]

Is this guy a radical?1) he said we are an accesssory to what happened on 9/11 (10 days after the attacks).2) says Bin Laden was made in the USA.

Neither of those are "radical" opinions. They're facts.

 

[DrJ]

It seems you're suffering from a case of selective memory.

In his OP, tim said Bush "should be speaking out very firmly." I responded that he had "no more responsibility to speak out than I do." tim then brought duty into the picture:

Bush was president of the United States. That gives him great responsibilities for the rest of his life. IMO it is his absolute duty to speak out on issues like this one. Other former presidents have understood this duty and acted upon it, and even risked the ridicule of their own political party by doing so. If this were a minor issue I would agree that he needn't say anything. But the issue of whether or not we as Americans blame Islam in general for 9/11 is central to Bush's presidency and his legacy. He needs to speak out.

Christo is correct. I wrote that Bush has a duty to speak out on this subject, and I stand by that.

You guys can argue around that point then, I missed the post where you asserted that. I agree it would say a lot if he would step forward. I think that whether or not he has a duty it would be a very good idea for Bush to step forward on this issue.

What about Clinton? He had to battle the Muslims too.

 

[saintfool]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/30/who...nd-zero-mosque/

interesting

El-Gamal first said he didn’t hit the man, but arrest documents obtained by CBS 2 showed he later conceded “his face could have run into my hand.

i like the cut of his jib.

 

[DrJ]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/30/who...nd-zero-mosque/

interesting

Just another peace loving Muslim, nothing to see here.

 

[the moops]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/30/who...nd-zero-mosque/

interesting

He seems nice.

He sounds like a doosh.Guess what? There are thousands of dooshy real estate developers all over the country.

 

[DrJ]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/30/who...nd-zero-mosque/

interesting

He seems nice.

He sounds like a doosh.Guess what? There are thousands of dooshy real estate developers all over the country.

I think they should have titled it "Violent Muslim wants to build mosque next to ground zero". They could learn a thing or two from Salon about using labels to make a more catchy title.

 

[Statorama]

1. Neither you nor the people you're quoting have any idea what Sharia law involves. Your use of the term is so nebulous it harbors on ridiculous. It's like saying John Calvin imposed "Christian Law" on Geneva. He imposed Calvin law, and called it Christian law.2. It is my firm conviction that your view of this situation, and those who share your view, are going to increase the chances of more terrorism to strike at this country. You are making our enemies' job easier, and you are helping to increase their numbers.

i'm positive i've read 100 times more on the subject of islam and sharia than you have.

While I'm not convinced it's quite 100x, I'm certain you've sought out both the pro and con viewpoints to the extent that your view is probably more well rounded.Tim's got a sizeable knowledge base about the subject matter though.

 

[Radio Free Homer]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/30/who...nd-zero-mosque/

interesting

El-Gamal first said he didn’t hit the man, but arrest documents obtained by CBS 2 showed he later conceded “his face could have run into my hand.

i like the cut of his jib.

Drinking, fighting, disorderly conduct...sounds like most of my friends.

 

[EasyMorningRebel]

1. Neither you nor the people you're quoting have any idea what Sharia law involves. Your use of the term is so nebulous it harbors on ridiculous. It's like saying John Calvin imposed "Christian Law" on Geneva. He imposed Calvin law, and called it Christian law.2. It is my firm conviction that your view of this situation, and those who share your view, are going to increase the chances of more terrorism to strike at this country. You are making our enemies' job easier, and you are helping to increase their numbers.

i'm positive i've read 100 times more on the subject of islam and sharia than you have.

While I'm not convinced it's quite 100x, I'm certain you've sought out both the pro and con viewpoints to the extent that your view is probably more well rounded.Tim's got a sizeable knowledge base about the subject matter though.

Get a room.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Sad local story:

CARLTON, NY (WKBW) Last night at the World Sufi Mosque was supposed to be a night of prayer, in observance of the holy month of Ramadan. But instead, it turned to violence.

Five teenagers in two pickup trucks began honking horns and yelling obscenities at the mosque patrons. When the people from the mosque went out to investigate, one man was allegedly struck by one of the trucks in a hit and run. The man was hospitalized, but his injuries were not serious.

Then a shot was fired from one of the trucks towards the mosque. Bilal Huzair was at the Mosque that night. "Harassment is one thing. Pointing a gun and shooting it is another thing."

This is not the first time this mosque has been victimized. "Things have stepped up now. We've been shot at on two different occasions in the past three nights. We just had a hit and run happen on one of our members and obviously that's concerning," said Jacob Zimmerman, another mosque member.

Bystanders followed the suspects to a nearby boat launch, where they were arrested by Orleans County Sheriff's Deputies. All five individuals were arrested and charged with disrupting a religious service. One was charged with criminal possession of a weapon.

The case is not being viewed as a hate crime as of right now, but the Orleans County Sheriff says the investigation is continuing, and that he expects more charges to come.

link 1

Five teens accused of disrupting a religious service at mosque in Carlton, Orleans County, have been arrested.

Jeff Donahue, Anthony Ogden and Dylan Phillips, all 18, and Mark Vendetti and Tim Weader, both 17, were charged with disrupting a religious service, a misdemeanor, said Orleans County Sheriff Scott D. Hess. All of the teens live in Holley, Orleans County.



The teens are accused of driving near the World Sufi Foundation Mosque on Fuller Road in Carlton last night, allegedly beeping car horns and yelling obscenities during an 11 p.m. religious service at the mosque. Hess said the incident was the second disturbance in less than a week outside the mosque.

In both cases, several people drove near the mosque, honking horns and screaming obscenities.

Hess said the same five teens are believed to be involved in both incidents, which occurred Friday and last night.

One of the teens, Vendetti, is also accused of firing a shotgun near the mosque Friday, Hess said. Vendetti was also charged with second-degree criminal possession of a weapon, a felony.

Vendetti was arraigned in Carlton Town Court and was remanded to the Orleans County Jail in lieu of $10,000 cash bail.

All five teens are scheduled to answer the misdemeanor charge in Carlton Town Court on Sept. 6.

Hess said deputies are investigating both incidents. Additional charges are pending.

link 2 (with photos)This is a pretty rural town roughly halfway between Buffalo and Rochester in western New York - note for people who look to blow everything out of proportion: this is not a knock on rural residents, rural towns "rednecks/hicks", etc. I'm simply stating a fact; this happened in a rural, "country" town pretty far off from the city...take that FWIW. I realize it's just a couple of teens, but it's kinda sad. I guess it could just be a random occurrence, but the fact that it's been escalating over the past week tells me that it might not be. Sigh.

ETA: local news just reported that the guy was carrying and firing a 16-gauge shotgun? I don't know what that is (I'm clueless about firearms) but it sounds pretty heavy-duty, right?

 

[cubd8]

Is this guy a radical?1) he said we are an accesssory to what happened on 9/11 (10 days after the attacks).2) says Bin Laden was made in the USA.3) says America is Sharia compliant state.4) the financer of the Mosque was waiting tables 2 years ago and is now a millionaire and refuses to answer questions about how it happened or about how the mosque is being funded? they refuse to say where the money (what countries - Saudi Arabia or Iran, for example) is coming from?Does any of this raise eye brows from those on the left?

4. You do you that Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, the supposed main backing behind the mosque, is the second largest shareholder of NewsCorp (Parent company of FOX news)? And you wonder why they demonize him as a terrorist, but never mention his name?

Where have you read this guy is the main backer behind the mosque?I understand that the Saudi who owns 7-9% of Newscorp has funded some of Rauf's other projects, but I haven't found where he has backed the mosque

 

[tommyboy]

Sad local story:ETA: local news just reported that the guy was carrying and firing a 16-gauge shotgun? I don't know what that is (I'm clueless about firearms) but it sounds pretty heavy-duty, right?

halfway between a 12 guage and 20 guage. probably a good squirrel gun. Probably not as good for ducks or geese though, you'd want to stikc with the 12 guage there. Not that heavy duty. heavy duty would be a 10 guage with .00 buckshot

 

[Steve Tasker]

Sad local story:ETA: local news just reported that the guy was carrying and firing a 16-gauge shotgun? I don't know what that is (I'm clueless about firearms) but it sounds pretty heavy-duty, right?

halfway between a 12 guage and 20 guage. probably a good squirrel gun. Probably not as good for ducks or geese though, you'd want to stikc with the 12 guage there. Not that heavy duty. heavy duty would be a 10 guage with .00 buckshot

thanks. I tried Googling it, but it just looked like a standard hunting gun to me.

 

[tommyboy]

Sad local story:ETA: local news just reported that the guy was carrying and firing a 16-gauge shotgun? I don't know what that is (I'm clueless about firearms) but it sounds pretty heavy-duty, right?

halfway between a 12 guage and 20 guage. probably a good squirrel gun. Probably not as good for ducks or geese though, you'd want to stikc with the 12 guage there. Not that heavy duty. heavy duty would be a 10 guage with .00 buckshot

thanks. I tried Googling it, but it just looked like a standard hunting gun to me.

if they had him with a 7MM or a .338 i'd say we have a budding terrorist in our midst. alas it was just a common shotgun with an effective range of about 40 yards.

 

[mad sweeney]

Sad local story:ETA: local news just reported that the guy was carrying and firing a 16-gauge shotgun? I don't know what that is (I'm clueless about firearms) but it sounds pretty heavy-duty, right?

halfway between a 12 guage and 20 guage. probably a good squirrel gun. Probably not as good for ducks or geese though, you'd want to stikc with the 12 guage there. Not that heavy duty. heavy duty would be a 10 guage with .00 buckshot

thanks. I tried Googling it, but it just looked like a standard hunting gun to me.

if they had him with a 7MM or a .338 i'd say we have a budding terrorist in our midst. alas it was just a common shotgun with an effective range of about 40 yards.

Sorry, shooting at a church or mosque in "hate crime" fashion is a form of terrorism. He already budded.

 

[tommyboy]

Sad local story:

ETA: local news just reported that the guy was carrying and firing a 16-gauge shotgun? I don't know what that is (I'm clueless about firearms) but it sounds pretty heavy-duty, right?

halfway between a 12 guage and 20 guage. probably a good squirrel gun. Probably not as good for ducks or geese though, you'd want to stikc with the 12 guage there. Not that heavy duty. heavy duty would be a 10 guage with .00 buckshot

thanks. I tried Googling it, but it just looked like a standard hunting gun to me.

if they had him with a 7MM or a .338 i'd say we have a budding terrorist in our midst. alas it was just a common shotgun with an effective range of about 40 yards.

Sorry, shooting at a church or mosque in "hate crime" fashion is a form of terrorism. He already budded.

i believe the report said "near"isnt' all crime a hate crime of some sort? you pretty much have to hate people to steal from them, rape them, cheat them, beat them up or other various sundry activities.

 

[ScottyFargo]

i believe the report said "near"isnt' all crime a hate crime of some sort? you pretty much have to hate people to steal from them, rape them, cheat them, beat them up or other various sundry activities.

 

[Radio Free Homer]

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/425902_clerk30.html

Charge: Seattle man attacked shopkeeper, calls victim a terrorist

By LEVI PULKKINEN

SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF

A 35-year-old Seattle man is facing assault and hate crime charges following allegations that he accosted a clerk at a Queen Anne convenience store.

According to police, Brock Stainbrook derided the man as being a terrorist during the Tuesday morning incident.

Writing the court, a Seattle detective said Stainbrook entered the 7-11 store in at 362 Denny Way. The clerk was standing near a coffee machine when Stainbrook accosted him.

"For unknown reasons a person threw change on the floor near the victim's feet then punched the victim on the left side of the head," the detective said.

"After the suspect struck (the clerk) with his fist he said, 'You're not even American, you're Al-Qaeda. Go back to your country.'"

Another employee then stepped in, forcing Stainbrook to leave the store. As he did so, police allege the man tried to kick the second employee and damaged a barcode scanner.

Police arrested Stainbrook walking nearby minutes later. Confronted by police, he allegedly admitted that he "struck a person on his turban" because he disliked him. While the alleged victim's ethnic background is not noted in court documents, his surname is common within the Sikh community.

Stainbrook has been charged with fourth-degree assault and malicious harassment, Washington state's hate crime statute.

 

[Parrothead]

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/425902_clerk30.html

Charge: Seattle man attacked shopkeeper, calls victim a terrorist

By LEVI PULKKINEN

SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF

A 35-year-old Seattle man is facing assault and hate crime charges following allegations that he accosted a clerk at a Queen Anne convenience store.

According to police, Brock Stainbrook derided the man as being a terrorist during the Tuesday morning incident.

Writing the court, a Seattle detective said Stainbrook entered the 7-11 store in at 362 Denny Way. The clerk was standing near a coffee machine when Stainbrook accosted him.

"For unknown reasons a person threw change on the floor near the victim's feet then punched the victim on the left side of the head," the detective said.

"After the suspect struck (the clerk) with his fist he said, 'You're not even American, you're Al-Qaeda. Go back to your country.'"

Another employee then stepped in, forcing Stainbrook to leave the store. As he did so, police allege the man tried to kick the second employee and damaged a barcode scanner.

Police arrested Stainbrook walking nearby minutes later. Confronted by police, he allegedly admitted that he "struck a person on his turban" because he disliked him. While the alleged victim's ethnic background is not noted in court documents, his surname is common within the Sikh community.

Stainbrook has been charged with fourth-degree assault and malicious harassment, Washington state's hate crime statute.

can we start calling every mugging of a rich white guy in the wrong part of town a hate crime too?

 

[timschochet]

can we start calling every mugging of a rich white guy in the wrong part of town a hate crime too?

No we can't, and this constant refrain is awfully annoying. This man was attacked because he wore a turban. He was a Sikh, not even a Muslim, but this is the level of bigotry and ignorance some people in this country have reached. If you can't see that this is awful and needs to be punished in a more dramatic way than a non-hate crime, then that is too bad; most of us can see the difference.

 

[Parrothead]

can we start calling every mugging of a rich white guy in the wrong part of town a hate crime too?

No we can't, and this constant refrain is awfully annoying. This man was attacked because he wore a turban. He was a Sikh, not even a Muslim, but this is the level of bigotry and ignorance some people in this country have reached. If you can't see that this is awful and needs to be punished in a more dramatic way than a non-hate crime, then that is too bad; most of us can see the difference.

so you are saying that white people aren't targeted because they are white??

 

[jon_mx]

Sad local story:ETA: local news just reported that the guy was carrying and firing a 16-gauge shotgun? I don't know what that is (I'm clueless about firearms) but it sounds pretty heavy-duty, right?

halfway between a 12 guage and 20 guage. probably a good squirrel gun. Probably not as good for ducks or geese though, you'd want to stikc with the 12 guage there. Not that heavy duty. heavy duty would be a 10 guage with .00 buckshot

thanks. I tried Googling it, but it just looked like a standard hunting gun to me.

if they had him with a 7MM or a .338 i'd say we have a budding terrorist in our midst. alas it was just a common shotgun with an effective range of about 40 yards.

Sorry, shooting at a church or mosque in "hate crime" fashion is a form of terrorism. He already budded.

Haven't we just had 49 pages of discussion of what the difference is between at and near?

 

[timschochet]

can we start calling every mugging of a rich white guy in the wrong part of town a hate crime too?

No we can't, and this constant refrain is awfully annoying. This man was attacked because he wore a turban. He was a Sikh, not even a Muslim, but this is the level of bigotry and ignorance some people in this country have reached. If you can't see that this is awful and needs to be punished in a more dramatic way than a non-hate crime, then that is too bad; most of us can see the difference.

so you are saying that white people aren't targeted because they are white??

Not at all. Reginald Denny was dragged from his truck and beaten because he was white. That was a hate crime. But your question assumes that every white man who gets mugged is a victim of a hate crime. It's an absurd attempt to dismiss the whole concept of hate crimes. Conservatives have been making this "argument" for years, and it's a ridiculous comparison.

 

[Parrothead]

can we start calling every mugging of a rich white guy in the wrong part of town a hate crime too?

No we can't, and this constant refrain is awfully annoying. This man was attacked because he wore a turban. He was a Sikh, not even a Muslim, but this is the level of bigotry and ignorance some people in this country have reached. If you can't see that this is awful and needs to be punished in a more dramatic way than a non-hate crime, then that is too bad; most of us can see the difference.

so you are saying that white people aren't targeted because they are white??

Not at all. Reginald Denny was dragged from his truck and beaten because he was white. That was a hate crime. But your question assumes that every white man who gets mugged is a victim of a hate crime. It's an absurd attempt to dismiss the whole concept of hate crimes. Conservatives have been making this "argument" for years, and it's a ridiculous comparison.

I am not dismissing it.. hate crime is a vague term.. where do we draw the line? you said he got assulted because he was wearing a turban.. there are plenty of people assulted in Philly for wearing a Giants jersey.. hate crime?

 

[Christo]

can we start calling every mugging of a rich white guy in the wrong part of town a hate crime too?

No we can't, and this constant refrain is awfully annoying. This man was attacked because he wore a turban. He was a Sikh, not even a Muslim, but this is the level of bigotry and ignorance some people in this country have reached. If you can't see that this is awful and needs to be punished in a more dramatic way than a non-hate crime, then that is too bad; most of us can see the difference.

so you are saying that white people aren't targeted because they are white??

Not at all. Reginald Denny was dragged from his truck and beaten because he was white. That was a hate crime. But your question assumes that every white man who gets mugged is a victim of a hate crime. It's an absurd attempt to dismiss the whole concept of hate crimes. Conservatives have been making this "argument" for years, and it's a ridiculous comparison.

The whole concept of hate crimes is made up. That's why I dismiss it.

 

[timschochet]

can we start calling every mugging of a rich white guy in the wrong part of town a hate crime too?

No we can't, and this constant refrain is awfully annoying. This man was attacked because he wore a turban. He was a Sikh, not even a Muslim, but this is the level of bigotry and ignorance some people in this country have reached. If you can't see that this is awful and needs to be punished in a more dramatic way than a non-hate crime, then that is too bad; most of us can see the difference.

so you are saying that white people aren't targeted because they are white??

Not at all. Reginald Denny was dragged from his truck and beaten because he was white. That was a hate crime. But your question assumes that every white man who gets mugged is a victim of a hate crime. It's an absurd attempt to dismiss the whole concept of hate crimes. Conservatives have been making this "argument" for years, and it's a ridiculous comparison.

The whole concept of hate crimes is made up. That's why I dismiss it.

Somehow I'm not surprised at your opinion on this issue.

 

[tommyboy]

i agree the concept of hate crimes is a joke. Crime is crime, punish the offense. We don't need special designations of crime, the old level 1, 2, 3 system works just fine. Besides in our current justice system the perp will get probabtion and be arrested another 27 times before anyone takes him seriously. But if you get caught with a larger bag of weed, ##### YOU GO TO PRISON FOR LIFE!

 

[cubd8]

Is this guy a radical?1) he said we are an accesssory to what happened on 9/11 (10 days after the attacks).2) says Bin Laden was made in the USA.3) says America is Sharia compliant state.4) the financer of the Mosque was waiting tables 2 years ago and is now a millionaire and refuses to answer questions about how it happened or about how the mosque is being funded? they refuse to say where the money (what countries - Saudi Arabia or Iran, for example) is coming from?Does any of this raise eye brows from those on the left?

4. You do you that Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, the supposed main backing behind the mosque, is the second largest shareholder of NewsCorp (Parent company of FOX news)? And you wonder why they demonize him as a terrorist, but never mention his name?

Where have you read this guy is the main backer behind the mosque?I understand that the Saudi who owns 7-9% of Newscorp has funded some of Rauf's other projects, but I haven't found where he has backed the mosque

so is it Fox News's job for their anchors to come out and talk about every investor they have in their company?is this guy calling the shots at Fox News?do they regulate who buys stock in their company?does any company?to my knowledge, he has backed projects in the past the Imam has done but not building this particular mosque

 

[mad sweeney]

halfway between a 12 guage and 20 guage. probably a good squirrel gun. Probably not as good for ducks or geese though, you'd want to stikc with the 12 guage there. Not that heavy duty. heavy duty would be a 10 guage with .00 buckshot

thanks. I tried Googling it, but it just looked like a standard hunting gun to me.

if they had him with a 7MM or a .338 i'd say we have a budding terrorist in our midst. alas it was just a common shotgun with an effective range of about 40 yards.

Sorry, shooting at a church or mosque in "hate crime" fashion is a form of terrorism. He already budded.

i believe the report said "near"isnt' all crime a hate crime of some sort? you pretty much have to hate people to steal from them, rape them, cheat them, beat them up or other various sundry activities.

Oh, it was near? I guess that's ok then. Definitely not being used in an effort to terrorize the mosquers. And I quoted hate crime because of the nebulous definition of it versus other crimes. Althgough in your examples I don't think hate is involved in theft or cheating, just my opinion.

 

[mad sweeney]

can we start calling every mugging of a rich white guy in the wrong part of town a hate crime too?

No we can't, and this constant refrain is awfully annoying. This man was attacked because he wore a turban. He was a Sikh, not even a Muslim, but this is the level of bigotry and ignorance some people in this country have reached. If you can't see that this is awful and needs to be punished in a more dramatic way than a non-hate crime, then that is too bad; most of us can see the difference.

so you are saying that white people aren't targeted because they are white??

Not at all. Reginald Denny was dragged from his truck and beaten because he was white. That was a hate crime. But your question assumes that every white man who gets mugged is a victim of a hate crime. It's an absurd attempt to dismiss the whole concept of hate crimes. Conservatives have been making this "argument" for years, and it's a ridiculous comparison.

I am not dismissing it.. hate crime is a vague term.. where do we draw the line? you said he got assulted because he was wearing a turban.. there are plenty of people assulted in Philly for wearing a Giants jersey.. hate crime?

Interesting comparison and one that's hard to define where the line is drawn. In your example however, if there was a massive wave of anti-Giants hysteria along with other assaults and vandalism against Giants fans across the nation, and all based on what a few Giants fans who are unrelated to the victims did to other Eagles fans, then maybe a case can be made.

 

[DrJ]

What I find amusing is that you blame this gunfire on Fox News and the media rather than placing any blame on the people wanting to build the mosque stirring the pot. As if they didn't realize that's the reaction it would cause in certain segments of the population.

Just like it's my legal right to call people politically incorrect terms, it doesn't mean that you necessarily should. Some people are going to get angry, some might even lash out violently. And the people dead set on this mosque would label that person a bigot. It's funny that the people that are preaching tolerance and sensetivity aren't even sensetive to the feelings of people on the other side of this issue. This is a politically incorrect action, it simply is. But they keep wanting to go on about freedom of this and that.

 

[mad sweeney]

What I find amusing is that you blame this gunfire on Fox News and the media rather than placing any blame on the people wanting to build the mosque stirring the pot. As if they didn't realize that's the reaction it would cause in certain segments of the population. Just like it's my legal right to call people politically incorrect terms, it doesn't mean that you necessarily should. Some people are going to get angry, some might even lash out violently. And the people dead set on this mosque would label that person a bigot. It's funny that the people that are preaching tolerance and sensetivity aren't even sensetive to the feelings of people on the other side of this issue. This is a politically incorrect action, it simply is. But they keep wanting to go on about freedom of this and that.

This goes back to the question of why should they feel guilty for something they didn't do? are you saying that the people lashing out violently aren't bigots? That's a pretty ignorant statement if that's what you're saying.

 

[badmojo1006]

I do not agree with Orrin Hatch a lot of the times, but this man is very brave standing up like this

 

[DrJ]

What I find amusing is that you blame this gunfire on Fox News and the media rather than placing any blame on the people wanting to build the mosque stirring the pot. As if they didn't realize that's the reaction it would cause in certain segments of the population. Just like it's my legal right to call people politically incorrect terms, it doesn't mean that you necessarily should. Some people are going to get angry, some might even lash out violently. And the people dead set on this mosque would label that person a bigot. It's funny that the people that are preaching tolerance and sensetivity aren't even sensetive to the feelings of people on the other side of this issue. This is a politically incorrect action, it simply is. But they keep wanting to go on about freedom of this and that.

This goes back to the question of why should they feel guilty for something they didn't do? are you saying that the people lashing out violently aren't bigots? That's a pretty ignorant statement if that's what you're saying.

I didn't personally enslave anyone either. Or kill any Indians. Take any land from Mexico. Or any of a list of things us white guys are all supposed to feel guilty over. They don't necessarily have to feel guilty for it, but they should feel sensetive to the feelings of others over the issue. That's pretty much the liberal creed.Not saying the people shooting aren't overreacting about the thing, and might be prejudiced against Muslims. But anyone with half a brain could have imagined that would be the outcome when they decided to put this thing up. And they decided to go ahead with it anyways. If you feel that's their right, fine. But don't get all holy on the media over these people commiting these crimes. The people deciding to take the politically incorrect course of action sparked that by being insensetive. 70% of the people don't want this, some feel strongly about it, and not all of them are firing weapons near mosques.

 

[the moops]

I do not agree with Orrin Hatch a lot of the times, but this man is very brave standing up like this

I think it is a shame that it is viewed as being "brave" for standing up for what is a basic right and one of the founding pillars of this country.

 

[DrJ]

I do not agree with Orrin Hatch a lot of the times, but this man is very brave standing up like this

I think it is a shame that it is viewed as being "brave" for standing up for what is a basic right and one of the founding pillars of this country.

So is freedom of speech. But we are expected to choose our words as to not offend people. If you don't, a certain part of the population will lash out at you. Because of that, most people do. It's completely within your right to call people whatever you want, though. Just be willing to suffer the consequences.

 

[the moops]

rather than placing any blame on the people wanting to build the mosque stirring the pot.

Stirring the pot! Next time a woman is raped, let's make sure to blame her for walking alone and wearing a short skirt, and stirring the pot!

 

[mad sweeney]

What I find amusing is that you blame this gunfire on Fox News and the media rather than placing any blame on the people wanting to build the mosque stirring the pot. As if they didn't realize that's the reaction it would cause in certain segments of the population.

Just like it's my legal right to call people politically incorrect terms, it doesn't mean that you necessarily should. Some people are going to get angry, some might even lash out violently. And the people dead set on this mosque would label that person a bigot. It's funny that the people that are preaching tolerance and sensetivity aren't even sensetive to the feelings of people on the other side of this issue. This is a politically incorrect action, it simply is. But they keep wanting to go on about freedom of this and that.

This goes back to the question of why should they feel guilty for something they didn't do? are you saying that the people lashing out violently aren't bigots? That's a pretty ignorant statement if that's what you're saying.

I didn't personally enslave anyone either. Or kill any Indians. Take any land from Mexico. Or any of a list of things us white guys are all supposed to feel guilty over. They don't necessarily have to feel guilty for it, but they should feel sensetive to the feelings of others over the issue. That's pretty much the liberal creed.Not saying the people shooting aren't overreacting about the thing, and might be prejudiced against Muslims. But anyone with half a brain could have imagined that would be the outcome when they decided to put this thing up. And they decided to go ahead with it anyways. If you feel that's their right, fine. But don't get all holy on the media over these people commiting these crimes. The people deciding to take the politically incorrect course of action sparked that by being insensetive. 70% of the people don't want this, some feel strongly about it, and not all of them are firing weapons near mosques.

Holy #### !!!!Sounds like you're the kind of guy that says women that dress sexy are asking to and deserve to get raped. Let's all salute this "Real American".

I was just watching a bunch of clips from Fox News and other shows with Right Wingers all unanimously condemning the mosque as havens of terrorism. To deny that Fox and other Right Wingers (and some Lefties, but predominately Righties) are whipping this anti-Muslim hysteria up as a wedge issue for upcoming elections is just plain ignorant and you can see that in the clips from the Beck Rally, from these now seemingly daily new crimes against Muslims in which they are being called terrorists before being punched, stabbed, etc... Do you really suggest that people shouldn't be able to do stuff because ignorant savages will overreact and break the law against them?

 

[DrJ]

rather than placing any blame on the people wanting to build the mosque stirring the pot.

Stirring the pot! Next time a woman is raped, let's make sure to blame her for walking alone and wearing a short skirt, and stirring the pot!

And you be sure to endorse the rapist's family intentionally moving in next door to her. It is their American right afterall, and they didn't have anything to do with it.

 

[mad sweeney]

I do not agree with Orrin Hatch a lot of the times, but this man is very brave standing up like this

I think it is a shame that it is viewed as being "brave" for standing up for what is a basic right and one of the founding pillars of this country.

So is freedom of speech. But we are expected to choose our words as to not offend people. If you don't, a certain part of the population will lash out at you. Because of that, most people do. It's completely within your right to call people whatever you want, though. Just be willing to suffer the consequences.

You're implying that the Plaza 51 people are calling others something, which pretty much implies that they are slapping the US in the face because they're Muslims and therefore terrorists and therefore had somethign to do with 9/11. This is a pretty asinine little sidetrack you're going on in an effort to protect a network that recieves funding from an apparently known terrorist.

 

[the moops]

rather than placing any blame on the people wanting to build the mosque stirring the pot.

Stirring the pot! Next time a woman is raped, let's make sure to blame her for walking alone and wearing a short skirt, and stirring the pot!

And you be sure to endorse the rapist's family intentionally moving in next door to her. It is their American right afterall, and they didn't have anything to do with it.

Good god. So now all muslims are family members?

 

[mad sweeney]

rather than placing any blame on the people wanting to build the mosque stirring the pot.

Stirring the pot! Next time a woman is raped, let's make sure to blame her for walking alone and wearing a short skirt, and stirring the pot!

And you be sure to endorse the rapist's family intentionally moving in next door to her. It is their American right afterall, and they didn't have anything to do with it.

Which one of those guys interviewed were you?

 

[DrJ]

I do not agree with Orrin Hatch a lot of the times, but this man is very brave standing up like this

I think it is a shame that it is viewed as being "brave" for standing up for what is a basic right and one of the founding pillars of this country.

So is freedom of speech. But we are expected to choose our words as to not offend people. If you don't, a certain part of the population will lash out at you. Because of that, most people do. It's completely within your right to call people whatever you want, though. Just be willing to suffer the consequences.

You're implying that the Plaza 51 people are calling others something, which pretty much implies that they are slapping the US in the face because they're Muslims and therefore terrorists and therefore had somethign to do with 9/11. This is a pretty asinine little sidetrack you're going on in an effort to protect a network that recieves funding from an apparently known terrorist.

I'm implying that they are well aware that a certain portion of our population associated the religion with the acts that occurred on 9/11. Some of which probably had loved ones lose their lives in the attack. Building a mosque that close could be considered insensitive to these victims. They were well aware of this and decided to build it anyways. It's their right, go ahead, but we willing to suffer the consequences that you knew would inevitably result.

 

[DrJ]

rather than placing any blame on the people wanting to build the mosque stirring the pot.

Stirring the pot! Next time a woman is raped, let's make sure to blame her for walking alone and wearing a short skirt, and stirring the pot!

And you be sure to endorse the rapist's family intentionally moving in next door to her. It is their American right afterall, and they didn't have anything to do with it.

Good god. So now all muslims are family members?

What difference does it make? None of them had anything to do with the attacks in question, they are just associated with the perpetrators via some common traits.

 

[drummer]

IF YOU BUILD IT, WE WILL FIRE BOMB.