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My grandfather passed and we found a box of WWII items, one of which is pretty amazing (2 Viewers)

Do any military guys (or non, i guess) have feelings similar to this reddit comment?

"The thought of my family doing something like that with something that I brought back from deployment seems so callous and makes me feel profoundly disappointed. Like they would care more about the family of the enemy than they do about the struggle we went through. I feel a little sick just thinking about it. Obviously, I'm not your grandfather, and I don't know what he was like, I'm just telling you how that would make me feel. "
No.  And I know for a fact that a buddy of mine's father - who was in the 2nd on that island with your grandfather - appreciated it when his son found the family of a deceased soldier whose gear he took on that island.  It's why I asked if your grandfather was in the 4th or the 2nd.  Probably knew my buddy's dad pretty well. 

 
Do any military guys (or non, i guess) have feelings similar to this reddit comment?

"The thought of my family doing something like that with something that I brought back from deployment seems so callous and makes me feel profoundly disappointed. Like they would care more about the family of the enemy than they do about the struggle we went through. I feel a little sick just thinking about it. Obviously, I'm not your grandfather, and I don't know what he was like, I'm just telling you how that would make me feel. "
No.

 
From reddit

A Photo of the unknown female, possibly an actress. In the back is a bunch of katakana scribbles. I can read "サイパン本部参謀宛て” (to advisors in Saipan HQ). I cannot make up really well but maybe this is the attempt to send the message somehow to HQ before the final banzai attack. Maybe this soldier didn't have a paper to write on. The far left says "postponed to the day 12".

(Photo 2)

A woman of the photo unknown. The back is the address to Mr. Tokujirou Takano (高野徳次郎) from the Ibaragi (茨城県稲敷郡 阿見村鈴木四一). Congraturation for this soldier to be sent to the war in February 1943.

(Photo 3)

A Photo of Geisha in Ginza named "Sumi", apparently with her own writing.

(Photo 4)

The back reads "Resume: legal domicile - Okinawa" and stopped there. He was hoping to be a movie star or war-movie actor?

(Photo 5)

A Photo of a geisha from Shinbashi name "Kosuga" with her own writing. These must be like an early day Headshot, possibly designed to give to expediting soldiers.

(Photo 6)

This photo again seems to be the headshot of the actual geisha, but this one is the letter from someone in the mainland to a soldier. The letter says something like "I haven't heard from you a long time, but I hope you are doing ok. We are fine but the father seems to be getting weaker day by day, and I'm a bit worry about his aging. It's June now, and I heard cicada start making noise and it's good time to see new green on the forests. The weather is unstable and rain makes me think a lot, and I hope you are fine. I'm sure your every effort counts in the frontline and I imagine you must been feeling a purpose of your life. Surely both of us have a full of hardships, don't we?"(Maybe from a wife?... I get a bit sentimental thinking about this woman left alone with the aging father-in-law...).

(Photo 7)

A movie star from Shochiku Oohuna, named "Michiko Kuwano" as it's written in the back.

(Photo 8)

A woman of the photo unknown, but I'm sure this is the legendary actress, Setsuko Hara in her early 20's. In the back is addressed to a civilian woman named "Ryouko Ogidou" and with another name with the red pen "Fumiko Yamaji" in Saipan.

(Flag)

A good luck flag. The name of the owner unknown but the writing on Flag7 photo says "A son of Mt. Fuji spread to the three prefectures. Please defeat the evil coming to attack us."

 
Do any military guys (or non, i guess) have feelings similar to this reddit comment?

"The thought of my family doing something like that with something that I brought back from deployment seems so callous and makes me feel profoundly disappointed. Like they would care more about the family of the enemy than they do about the struggle we went through. I feel a little sick just thinking about it. Obviously, I'm not your grandfather, and I don't know what he was like, I'm just telling you how that would make me feel. "
They're now yours to do with as you wish. To me, returning these items to the original owner, donating to a museum, displaying in your own home, all seem preferable to just storing them until your heirs find them among your belongings after you're gone.

 
Amazing find!  If it were me, I would do everything I possibly could to return that to the soldier's family.  What a gift that would be for them.  It would make me feel damn good to do it.  Good luck and thanks for sharing.  Very cool stuff.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
  I kind understand a little bit of what he saying. When you said you were going to return it to the ancestors it didn't sit right with me but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.  There's not a PC way to tell you this but knowing my grandfather and the many many he served with they just wouldn't be keen about returning these items to their enemy. 

If your grandfather wanted the items that he took off his enemy he would have done it himself. 

I'm only giving you my opinion on how I know my grandfather would feel because you asked.  I was supremely close to my grandfather. He was like a father to me. I loved that man. He also wasn't the most "enlightened". How he felt might not be the "correct" way to feel but that's how he would have felt. 


On the other hand, Worm's grandfather didn't even let his family know about the items and their importance.  One could try to guess at the many possible reasons for that, but if the idea of keeping them in the family was very important to him, you would think he'd at least have shown them to someone.

 
Awesome stuff. Spoils of war FTW! 
This.

Hey Worm, been a while. Very cool stuff. I'd caution to be careful with this stuff as there are a lot of unscrupulous collectors out there that would go to great lengths to acquire actual WWII artifacts. There is a huge 'fake' memorabilia industry out there that produces stuff like this and floods ebay with it. My opinion, don't spend time trying to get the flag back to someone. It's 70 years, you have better things to do and they probably don't care. Something like this either belongs in a museum or frame it along with grampa's medal.

I know a collector that focuses on WWII Airborne but I'm sure he knows reputable people in the business if you'd like to have someone take a look.

 
This.

Hey Worm, been a while. Very cool stuff. I'd caution to be careful with this stuff as there are a lot of unscrupulous collectors out there that would go to great lengths to acquire actual WWII artifacts. There is a huge 'fake' memorabilia industry out there that produces stuff like this and floods ebay with it. My opinion, don't spend time trying to get the flag back to someone. It's 70 years, you have better things to do and they probably don't care. Something like this either belongs in a museum or frame it along with grampa's medal.

I know a collector that focuses on WWII Airborne but I'm sure he knows reputable people in the business if you'd like to have someone take a look.
Those things just aren't valuable enough to be targeted by unscrupulous collectors.  I wouldn't worry about it.

 
Do any military guys (or non, i guess) have feelings similar to this reddit comment?

"The thought of my family doing something like that with something that I brought back from deployment seems so callous and makes me feel profoundly disappointed. Like they would care more about the family of the enemy than they do about the struggle we went through. I feel a little sick just thinking about it. Obviously, I'm not your grandfather, and I don't know what he was like, I'm just telling you how that would make me feel. "
Some types of people are just looking for a reason to feel outrage. But I bet if that guy's dad died in a war, he sure would have appreciated it if he was given some of his father's possessions many years later.

 
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Do any military guys (or non, i guess) have feelings similar to this reddit comment?

"The thought of my family doing something like that with something that I brought back from deployment seems so callous and makes me feel profoundly disappointed. Like they would care more about the family of the enemy than they do about the struggle we went through. I feel a little sick just thinking about it. Obviously, I'm not your grandfather, and I don't know what he was like, I'm just telling you how that would make me feel. "
I'm a military guy and you should definitely see about getting that stuff to any potential Japanese family, maybe get the story and bring some good karma to your life :thumbup:   

That quote sounds like something the people who just threw my country in the trash would say

 
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 That quote sounds like something the people who just threw my country in the trash would say
Come on man - do we really need to bring this crap into this kind of thread?  Share your thoughts about what the OP should do for sure, but lets not argue about it.  Lets just be thankful he shared this great find with us and leave it at that.

 
Come on man - do we really need to bring this crap into this kind of thread?  Share your thoughts about what the OP should do for sure, but lets not argue about it.  Lets just be thankful he shared this great find with us and leave it at that.
Go choke on a borscht, Sergei

 
Some types of people are just looking for a reason to feel outrage. But I bet if that guy's dad died in a war, he sure would have appreciated it if he was given some of his father's possessions many years later.




 




 
This on both counts.

ETA: super cool find. And really interesting to learn about the items as people post info.

 
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Come on man - do we really need to bring this crap into this kind of thread?  Share your thoughts about what the OP should do for sure, but lets not argue about it.  Lets just be thankful he shared this great find with us and leave it at that.
I must have missed the "thread rules" myself.  

 
Do any military guys (or non, i guess) have feelings similar to this reddit comment?

"The thought of my family doing something like that with something that I brought back from deployment seems so callous and makes me feel profoundly disappointed. Like they would care more about the family of the enemy than they do about the struggle we went through. I feel a little sick just thinking about it. Obviously, I'm not your grandfather, and I don't know what he was like, I'm just telling you how that would make me feel. "
My gramps was a POW in the Philippenes.  Was part of the Bataan Death March. He wouldn't really talk about his experiences and I was too young for him to ever share that kind of stuff with me.  But he seemed like a kind man with love in his heart.  I think if he had war trophies hidden in the attic he would be fine with me returning them

 
No.  And I know for a fact that a buddy of mine's father - who was in the 2nd on that island with your grandfather - appreciated it when his son found the family of a deceased soldier whose gear he took on that island.  It's why I asked if your grandfather was in the 4th or the 2nd.  Probably knew my buddy's dad pretty well. 
Interesting, missed that question.  I'm not sure which unit, I'll have to go back and look at the paperwork.

 
Got this response from the Obon Society:

Hello Jake,

 
Sorry for the long delay in responding to you. We are currently in Japan on the road meeting with our research staff, priests and government officials who are all involved with us and support us in our endeavors to find family here.
 
The flag you have is quite extraordinary. 
At first glance we believe, without the benefit of closer inspection, that those hand prints would be from the soldier’s children. They were too young to hold a brush and write characters so this is the only other option. 
It was a fairly common practice during that time.
The Tiger appears to be drawn with great artistic care, which might mean the family had an artist friend, but it might also mean that this soldier was born in the year of the tiger, and to represent this proud fact the father or mother or wife took the flag to an artist to have this included.
Pure speculation….but based on years of experience.
 
In answer to your question about retaining possession, we must follow a policy of what we call “guaranteed return.”
We must have possession before the search begins.
Because of the investment in time and resources put into every item…and the fact that to actually confirm that we have found the correct family, our agents here ultimately must show a picture to the family for them to see.
At that point in time, we never know the reaction and response from them.
 
In years past Americans have contacted newspapers with an image of something they wanted to return, and after months or years of searching the reporters finally found the family…….but upon trying to contact the Americans again they discovered they had disappeared.
 
This left the reporters with a bereaved family who had seen a photograph of a possession once carried by their family member….but the Americans who have it had disappeared. It was almost like a tease, except much worse.
 
What happened to the Americans is unknown. Whether they were in a car crash…or their home swept away in a tornado….or they were sickened with cancer…or they changed their minds…..we will never know. But these sorts incidents have happened…they are a reality of what we were warned about years ago. 
 
Our guaranteed return is based on us having possession of the item before the search begins. That way, if and when the family is found…..there is no delay in their receiving it. 
 
If we were just dealing with “stuff”….you know….like helmets or uniforms or rifles….it would be different. But the fact we are dealing family heirlooms that represent to only surviving trace of someone is entirely different. Also, because of that….these items Americans might see as ‘war souvenirs’ or ‘flags’ actually contain the ‘spirit’ of that person. It is alive to the Japanese. They talk to it….take it to the cemetery to show their deceased relatives….they apologize to it.
Please click on this link to a CBS program from last year about us that illustrates that exact response by the Japanese.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvHTtR8NID4
 
We imagine this is not the news you expected to hear, but the reason is probably perfectly clear.  We must be very sensitive and careful. 
 
On our website we have included links to our past newsletters. They are filled with stories and photographs of families and soldiers and returns of items to Japan. Please have a look. This will better illustrate what I am saying than any words.
http://obonsociety.org/obon-society-newsletter/
 
We look forward to hearing from you Jake.
Be well, and thank you for your generous heart. Those soldier’s children are probably in their 70’s now and would very much appreciate having this remains of their father.

 
Well I'd probably do it, but I'm not one to hang onto ####.  Do they say anything about letting you know if it is placed? 

 
Read the first page or so Friday, and chipped in with what I thought the first two things were in the linked pictures.  How did the weekend treat this thread? 

 
Meh, I'd put it in a shadow box and hang it proudly.

Your grandpa earned more medals in addition to the Bronze Star. You can contact the government and they will send you replacements. Add them to the shadow box and you have a very nice display case.

 
Meh, I'd put it in a shadow box and hang it proudly.

Your grandpa earned more medals in addition to the Bronze Star. You can contact the government and they will send you replacements. Add them to the shadow box and you have a very nice display case.
What means this

 
I think a display case with the medals Worm's Grumpa earned is a great idea.  But I think attempting to return the flag and pictures to the descendants of the the soldier is an honorable thing to do.  I don't think it diminishes what Worm's Grumpa went through, in fact I think it shows what he fought for.  My :2cents:

 
I think a display case with the medals Worm's Grumpa earned is a great idea.  But I think attempting to return the flag and pictures to the descendants of the the soldier is an honorable thing to do.  I don't think it diminishes what Worm's Grumpa went through, in fact I think it shows what he fought for.  My :2cents:
Agreed, especially with the part about the handprints from the Obon society. Whether you go through them, or on your own, having the flag returned might be the highlight of someone's life who was too young to remember when their father left for war.

Your grandfather and the person he took the flag from were likely two guys, not far removed from being children themselves who were told to go fight with no anger or enmity besides what their respective governments could conjure up.

 
I think a display case with the medals Worm's Grumpa earned is a great idea.  But I think attempting to return the flag and pictures to the descendants of the the soldier is an honorable thing to do.  I don't think it diminishes what Worm's Grumpa went through, in fact I think it shows what he fought for.  My :2cents:
Agreed, especially with the part about the handprints from the Obon society. Whether you go through them, or on your own, having the flag returned might be the highlight of someone's life who was too young to remember when their father left for war.

Your grandfather and the person he took the flag from were likely two guys, not far removed from being children themselves who were told to go fight with no anger or enmity besides what their respective governments could conjure up.
:goodposting: Gawain and Foos...agree 1000% the honorable thing to do would be to return the flag.

 
I really feel you are in a no lose situation here. I think you can hold onto it and not feel one ounce of guilt and be very proud to display if you chose to. On the other hand if you and your family have the desire to return the items to the original family that is a worthy cause and will bring you much satisfaction as well. My only advice would be to take your time in making the decision. 

Congrats on what you have discovered!

 
I really feel you are in a no lose situation here. I think you can hold onto it and not feel one ounce of guilt and be very proud to display if you chose to. On the other hand if you and your family have the desire to return the items to the original family that is a worthy cause and will bring you much satisfaction as well. My only advice would be to take your time in making the decision. 

Congrats on what you have discovered!
Thanks.  I'm leaning towards trying to return the flag if possible.  If the OBON Society guarantees returning it to me if the family is not found then I will probably go that route.  They do give you updates as they progress through the process, unlike some of the other agencies/consulates.  

I still have to talk with my mom about it more before making a decision.  One thing I will do is to take some higher quality photographs with my DSLR camera beforehand.

 
Joe Summer said:
I think he's saying that every soldier in WW2 received additional ribbons/medals for various combat campaigns, and you are entitled to get new ones if the originals were lost.
 Yes. 

 It's been a while but at a minimum he would've earned , a  asiatic – Pacific theater ribbon, WW2 campaign, and a WWII victory ribbon. 

He may have won battle stars to go on those ribbons as well. 

If you have his DD 214 you can send a copy over to metals of America and They'll let you know exactly what he got

 
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 Yes. 

 It's been a while but at a minimum he would've earned , a  asiatic – Pacific theater ribbon, WW2 campaign, and a WWII victory ribbon. 

He may have won battle stars to go on those ribbons as well. 

If you have his DD 214 you can send a copy over to metals of America and I'll let you know exactly what he got
a quick note to your congressperson will get you all he is deserved.  Did the same for my cousin who went MIA in Holland in WW2.

 
Do any military guys (or non, i guess) have feelings similar to this reddit comment?

"The thought of my family doing something like that with something that I brought back from deployment seems so callous and makes me feel profoundly disappointed. Like they would care more about the family of the enemy than they do about the struggle we went through. I feel a little sick just thinking about it. Obviously, I'm not your grandfather, and I don't know what he was like, I'm just telling you how that would make me feel. "
I served and even saw some.combat both official and not so. I would be fine even pleased with my family searching for the family that rightfully belongs to. Might even be a little mad at me because I didn't do it myself.

 
Do any military guys (or non, i guess) have feelings similar to this reddit comment?

"The thought of my family doing something like that with something that I brought back from deployment seems so callous and makes me feel profoundly disappointed. Like they would care more about the family of the enemy than they do about the struggle we went through. I feel a little sick just thinking about it. Obviously, I'm not your grandfather, and I don't know what he was like, I'm just telling you how that would make me feel. "
Since the majority of the time, the "enemies" are just family men, like you or I, doing what their government told them they had to do.  I'd be perfectly fine, and encourage having it returned.  I guarantee it means a lot more to that family's and subsequent generations to come.  

Think about it the other way, how excited would you be if one day, out of the blue, a Japanese guy came and brought you an American Flag, and some random medals that belonged to your grandfather from WW2.  It would be incredible.

 
Since the majority of the time, the "enemies" are just family men, like you or I, doing what their government told them they had to do.  I'd be perfectly fine, and encourage having it returned.  I guarantee it means a lot more to that family's and subsequent generations to come.  

Think about it the other way, how excited would you be if one day, out of the blue, a Japanese guy came and brought you an American Flag, and some random medals that belonged to your grandfather from WW2.  It would be incredible.
This is exactly how I feel.  I am imagining how incredible it would feel for the now elderly children of this soldier who have no memories of their father to receive this flag.  It would mean way more to them than it would to you hanging as a trophy in your house.  

 
Well, not only does the Obon Society not guarantee returning items if the family is not found, they flat out just don't return them.  You are basically donating the item up front.  I don't think I'm down with that.

Going to look into the Japanese consulate route.

 
I think you're recent decision about not going with the Obon Society because of their policy of keeping items when the soldier's family isn't found is a good choice.  I like the idea of searching for the kids whose handprint is on the flag, and I think you should do that on your own terms.  If you can find them, great.  If not, you still have your grandfather's heirloom.

Good luck in your search and please let us know how it's going.

 
What means this


 Yes. 

 It's been a while but at a minimum he would've earned , a  asiatic – Pacific theater ribbon, WW2 campaign, and a WWII victory ribbon. 

He may have won battle stars to go on those ribbons as well. 

If you have his DD 214 you can send a copy over to metals of America and They'll let you know exactly what he got
This. I did this for my Uncle's half brother and gave it to my Uncle, was very cool and unexpected.

https://www.archives.gov/veterans/replace-medals.html

 
This is exactly how I feel.  I am imagining how incredible it would feel for the now elderly children of this soldier who have no memories of their father to receive this flag.  It would mean way more to them than it would to you hanging as a trophy in your house.  


What are the chances the soldier had children?  I mean the fighting age of the infantry was quite young.  It's possible he has surviving sisters/brothers and their family, but have long since forgotten he existed.

Just playing devils advocate here, not suggesting a course of action.

 
This. I did this for my Uncle's half brother and gave it to my Uncle, was very cool and unexpected.

https://www.archives.gov/veterans/replace-medals.html
Yeah, this is pretty cool. I know my grandfather served in WWII and drove landing boats in the South Pacific. But he basically never talked about it with anyone. I have no idea if anyone in the family has any of this type of stuff. 

I'm going to have to talk to my dad and see if he has any idea. If nobody has that stuff, it would be really cool to try to get new copies of all of it for my 93 year old grandmother. 

The difficult part may be getting enough info to even start. I'm not sure if anyone knows his service number or dates of service.

 
Yeah, this is pretty cool. I know my grandfather served in WWII and drove landing boats in the South Pacific. But he basically never talked about it with anyone. I have no idea if anyone in the family has any of this type of stuff. 

I'm going to have to talk to my dad and see if he has any idea. If nobody has that stuff, it would be really cool to try to get new copies of all of it for my 93 year old grandmother. 

The difficult part may be getting enough info to even start. I'm not sure if anyone knows his service number or dates of service.
search

 
Yeah, this is pretty cool. I know my grandfather served in WWII and drove landing boats in the South Pacific. But he basically never talked about it with anyone. I have no idea if anyone in the family has any of this type of stuff. 

I'm going to have to talk to my dad and see if he has any idea. If nobody has that stuff, it would be really cool to try to get new copies of all of it for my 93 year old grandmother. 

The difficult part may be getting enough info to even start. I'm not sure if anyone knows his service number or dates of service.
Grove, it's daunting at first but there are a number of ways to start finding data. It's kinda like trying to Google but for military records using the governments database. It ain't nearly as fast as Google though ;)

When I put that together for my Uncle I just filled out a bunch of forms (handwritten and snail mailed at the time) and fired them off. About 6 months later I got the full military records, accommodations and any other accompanying paperwork for my Uncles half brother. About a month after that I received copies of all his medals and awards which was totally unexpected because I completely forgot about I had put in for them.

@BroncoFreak_2K3 has done a lot more research than I have, he would be a good resource to hit up.

 

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