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My son got a ####### 8 on a test and forged my signature (1 Viewer)

shady- floppinho is in 6th grade now. really smart kid, but has never been a reader the way many of his peers are. he'll read stuff for school, but it's always been tough to get him to read anything else. so I get what you're saying about the hating reading comments- even if I share the concerns about "hating" stemming from having problems or difficulties with it.

I really like the graphic novel idea. my son never liked novels- but was really into almanac, info books like this. as the son of an english teacher where reading was just something I did in my spare time (as a kid), it bothered me that he wasn't picking up all the classics or new fun books like his friends, and devouring them. but my wife kept pointing out that he was reading those non-fiction things (usually over and over) and websites (knew the lego website backwards and forwards) which is still reading. and that's true. graphic novels, catalogs, whatever- it's all reading. and there's so much out there, hopefully there's something (baseball encyclopedias?) that he'd find interesting enough to enjoy reading about instead of watching.

 
shadyridr said:
Tutor also said they receive so little science time (once a week) that it does sound plausible that if he doesn't study he didn't remember a single thing. She suggested going over a little science with him every day. She also said to definitely check his homework and to definitely study with him. Teachers just don't have time to check the homework. So I feel a little better now that I'm doing things right. 
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Galileo said:
:hot:
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User name checks out.  Also, what the hell are they spending the rest of the week on? 

Maybe you can find some related science shows that he may be interested in?

 
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Lehigh98 said:
User name checks out.  Also, what the hell are they spending the rest of the week on? 

Maybe you can find some related science shows that he may be interested in?
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I really don't think it boils down to science but his reading comprehension.

El Floppo said:
shady- floppinho is in 6th grade now. really smart kid, but has never been a reader the way many of his peers are. he'll read stuff for school, but it's always been tough to get him to read anything else. so I get what you're saying about the hating reading comments- even if I share the concerns about "hating" stemming from having problems or difficulties with it.

I really like the graphic novel idea. my son never liked novels- but was really into almanac, info books like this. as the son of an english teacher where reading was just something I did in my spare time (as a kid), it bothered me that he wasn't picking up all the classics or new fun books like his friends, and devouring them. but my wife kept pointing out that he was reading those non-fiction things (usually over and over) and websites (knew the lego website backwards and forwards) which is still reading. and that's true. graphic novels, catalogs, whatever- it's all reading. and there's so much out there, hopefully there's something (baseball encyclopedias?) that he'd find interesting enough to enjoy reading about instead of watching.
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More I observe, more I think its his lack of reading that is leading to his hatred of reading because his vocabulary isn't as good as it should be. He didn't know what the word common meant yesterday. He fessed up that he doesn't always read his 30 minutes like hes supposed to in after care. Hes supposed to log it every day (not sure if he does anyway but the teacher has always marked his HW complete). So yeah my son is a lazy *******. We are putting an end to this now before it gets worse. Read with him 30 min last night instead of in after care.

 
shadyridr said:
I really don't think it boils down to science but his reading comprehension.

More I observe, more I think its his lack of reading that is leading to his hatred of reading because his vocabulary isn't as good as it should be. He didn't know what the word common meant yesterday. He fessed up that he doesn't always read his 30 minutes like hes supposed to in after care. Hes supposed to log it every day (not sure if he does anyway but the teacher has always marked his HW complete). So yeah my son is a lazy *******. We are putting an end to this now before it gets worse. Read with him 30 min last night instead of in after care.
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that's great that you're spending the time with him. 

reading builds vocabulary, so it's kind of a catch 22 for him. hopefully with your encouragement and guidance and some compelling reading material, he'll step up the vocab and reading skills. my kids struggle reading the books they're given from the classroom (our school mandates 30mins/night of level-appropriate, teacher provided books), always groaning and trying to end early- but have no problem reading an hour when it's their own thing they're interested in. find the thing that'll be hard for him to put down. I remember Tintin, Asterix & Obelix were both comics/graphic stories that I loved around that age- seems like there's a ton of stuff. heck- there's probably a whole bunch of fortnight fan-fiction or guidebooks or whatever that he'd be into.

 
shadyridr said:
I really don't think it boils down to science but his reading comprehension.

More I observe, more I think its his lack of reading that is leading to his hatred of reading because his vocabulary isn't as good as it should be. He didn't know what the word common meant yesterday. He fessed up that he doesn't always read his 30 minutes like hes supposed to in after care. Hes supposed to log it every day (not sure if he does anyway but the teacher has always marked his HW complete). So yeah my son is a lazy *******. We are putting an end to this now before it gets worse. Read with him 30 min last night instead of in after care.
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My younger son didn't / doesn't like reading at all and it took us sitting down and reading with him for him to do it.  The vocab building can be tough and I remember having to go through a dictionary to look up words I didn't know when I was a kid.  Fortunately its alot easier for kids now, "Alexa, what does the word 'common' mean?"

 
Lehigh98 said:
My younger son didn't / doesn't like reading at all and it took us sitting down and reading with him for him to do it.  The vocab building can be tough and I remember having to go through a dictionary to look up words I didn't know when I was a kid.  Fortunately its alot easier for kids now, "Alexa, what does the word 'common' mean?"
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"ok. play glory, by common"

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
No one said anything about this.
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Yeah, no one suggested this but if "seeking professional help" ... I assume an ADHD diagnosis comes with medication in many cases?

 
Shady, it sounds like you're doing a really good job during a tough patch. My kids are now 21 and 16, so here are a couple of pieces of advice from an old fart (though they seem to have served the kids pretty well).

1. Show your kid you love them more than anything in the world, and there's nothing they could ever do that would make you not love them. Note: "show" is the most important part of this. Seems like you did a good job of showing your kid that you still love him despite the test grade and the note forgery. 

2. Stemming from #1, let him know there's no problem he can ever have that you won't try to help him with. I told (and still tell) my kids all the time: "You're going to screw up. You're going to make mistakes. Everyone does. So come to me when you've made a mistake, and gotten yourself into a bad situation, and together we'll make it better." I also try to drive home that the bigger the mistake, the bigger the problem, the harder it's going to be to solve and the less they're going to want to tell me what they did. And that's when they need help more than ever.

3. Next, you've got to be the one that figures out the solution to the problem. Again, sounds like you're off to a good start here - if he's not really reading 30 minutes a night because he hates it so much, then you've got to sit down with him for 30 minutes every single night and get it done. Yeah, it's going to suck for you, but you've got to help him fix the problem. With science, same deal - if it he has it once a week, then on the night he's had class, you sit down with him and go over the science until he's got it. And then the night before he has science next week, you pull it back out and go over it with him again. Do this for a month or so, and I'm sure you'll have a sense as to whether he can't master the material, or if he can master it as long as someone is riding herd on him to get it done. 

Hang in there. Sounds like you're doing all the right things!

 
Did you ever get to see the test? I must have missed it.    Was it multiple-choice, fill in the blank, etc?

 
Lol. Throughout Jr high through highschool I would create fake progress reports including the school seal on it. It was a thing of beauty. Would get off restriction after that and be immediately put back on when my report card showed up. 

 
shadyridr said:
More I observe, more I think its his lack of reading that is leading to his hatred of reading because his vocabulary isn't as good as it should be.
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Right there with you bud.  My now 13yr old still doesn't like to read.  He was on an IEP through 6th grade for speech therapy, and I think his delay in speaking caused him to fall behind in vocabulary, and now reading.  It's a fight to get him to sit down and read for 30mins a night.  We still read with him, as he can't pronounce all the words, or often just reads as fast as he can out loud hoping no one will catch it.  It gets very frustrating. He started this year in a Reading Lab with other kids, and he managed to graduate early by reading a book with his Lab instructor.  He is about a grade level behind right now, but the school views that as "close enough" to be removed from the lab.

He's big into sports, so we've tried getting him to read books about athletes or fictional baseball players - but no go.  I've tried comic books and graphic novels, but there is no interest.  I love the idea of the Fortnite books, but I'm afraid he may be too old for those.

I think some of the reason is that he doesn't understand how to really "read a book".  Most people I've talked to has shared that when they read, they see a visual image in their mind of the characters, the plot, the surroundings - which engage them and keep them interested.  My son is not very creative.  He hates drawing and coloring.  He's great when given instructions or shown what to do - just don't tell him to draw out anything.  I've talked to him about visualizing the story and he stares at me blankly.  He sees words on a page and hates them.  

I'm at the point that I want him to try audio-books, but that doesn't help his reading comprehension.  It is very frustrating.

 
Lost my patience last night. This was a question he had in math:

"Kate knitted 18 squares on Monday. She knitted 7 more squares each day until Thursday. How many squares did she knit on Thursday?"

My son didn't know how to start so I suggested listing out the days first. So he did M, T, W, T.

Me: OK so how many did she knit on Monday?

Him: Ummm 3?

Me: Where the heck did you get 3 from? Did you read the question?

Him  after rereading the question: Ummm 6?

Me: READ THE FRIGGIN QUESTION. IF YOU DONT READ THE QUESTIONS AND FIGURE OUT THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVING YOU HOW CAN YOU GET THE QUESTIONS RIGHT?

Him now crying after rereading the question again: Oh 18

Me: THANK YOU. Now how many did she knit on Tuesday?

Him: 7?

Me: OMG read the damn question again and figure it out it says 7 MORE

Him: Oh 25

After that he finally was able to solve the problem. The kid is seriously lazy. He reads and it goes in one ear and out the other.

 
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shadyridr said:
Lost my patience last night. This was a question he had in math:

"Kate knitted 18 squares on Monday. She knitted 7 more squares each day until Thursday. How many squares did she knit on Thursday?"

My son didn't know how to start so I suggested listing out the days first. So he did M, T, W, T.

Me: OK so how many did she knit on Monday?

Him: Ummm 3?

Me: Where the heck did you get 3 from? Did you read the question?

Him  after rereading the question: Ummm 6?

Me: READ THE FRIGGIN QUESTION. IF YOU DONT READ THE QUESTIONS AND FIGURE OUT THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVING YOU HOW CAN YOU GET THE QUESTIONS RIGHT?

Him now crying after rereading the question again: Oh 18

Me: THANK YOU. Now how many did she knit on Tuesday?

Him: 7?

Me: OMG read the damn question again and figure it out it says 7 MORE

Him: Oh 25

After that he finally was able to solve the problem. The kid is seriously lazy. He reads and it goes in one ear and out the other.
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If the question is as you stated it, then the answer is that she knitted 7 squares on Thursday. Nowhere is the word "total" used.

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
If the question is as you stated it, then the answer is that she knitted 7 squares on Thursday. Nowhere is the word "total" used.
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It was through Thursday not on Thursday. Sorry I didn't write the question exactly lol. I am writing this down from memory.

 
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Spin said:
Did you ever get to see the test? I must have missed it.    Was it multiple-choice, fill in the blank, etc?
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The evidence is about to be submitted and will tell the story.

Safe to assume that he did not study for the test.

Either:

-He did not remember anything taught in class or on the homework.

-Or he answered a question or 2 ... then chose not to answer any other questions.

-or, like someone suggested earlier, he copied off the person next to him and was 1 place off with his answers.

Very different behavior depending on which. 

Not answering questions ... so he didn't care for whatever reason ... frustrated, something else upset him that morning, etc.

or he attempted to cheat. If that's the case, was this the first time? 

 
shadyridr said:
Tutor also said they receive so little science time (once a week) that it does sound plausible that if he doesn't study he didn't remember a single thing. She suggested going over a little science with him every day. She also said to definitely check his homework and to definitely study with him. Teachers just don't have time to check the homework. So I feel a little better now that I'm doing things right. 
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This is just craziness to me. This seems like one of THE most important things a teacher could do to gauge progress, adjust curriculum, etc. Either we've screwed things up so badly by forcing so many other administrative tasks on teachers that it's killing teaching, or teachers are assigning so much homework that they can't even keep up. Or both. Either way, sheesh.

 
GroveDiesel said:
This is just craziness to me. This seems like one of THE most important things a teacher could do to gauge progress, adjust curriculum, etc. Either we've screwed things up so badly by forcing so many other administrative tasks on teachers that it's killing teaching, or teachers are assigning so much homework that they can't even keep up. Or both. Either way, sheesh.
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It is partly that where teachers are responsible for a lot more than they used to be. I teach high school so I don't know but at what age is it ok for kids to start checking their own homework? 

Also, I know a lot of teachers that won't check the homework but will have a "quiz" to start class that is basically what the homework covered and that gives them the quick feedback on where the class stands. 

 
I was supposed to meet the teachers today but I'm sick and rescheduled. Speaking of science. Yesterday he told me he has a science quiz today. I said good did you bring your book home to study? Proudly, he said yes I did. Get home and his science notebook is nowhere to be found. He forgot it. He is so absent minded. He was so upset because he swore he put it in his bag. 

 
Bossman said:
The evidence is about to be submitted and will tell the story.

Safe to assume that he did not study for the test.

Either:

-He did not remember anything taught in class or on the homework.

-Or he answered a question or 2 ... then chose not to answer any other questions.

-or, like someone suggested earlier, he copied off the person next to him and was 1 place off with his answers.

Very different behavior depending on which. 

Not answering questions ... so he didn't care for whatever reason ... frustrated, something else upset him that morning, etc.

or he attempted to cheat. If that's the case, was this the first time? 
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Everyone still wondering how a student can score an 8 on a test.

 
shadyridr said:
I was supposed to meet the teachers today but I'm sick and rescheduled. Speaking of science. Yesterday he told me he has a science quiz today. I said good did you bring your book home to study? Proudly, he said yes I did. Get home and his science notebook is nowhere to be found. He forgot it. He is so absent minded. He was so upset because he swore he put it in his bag. 
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God this sounds exactly like my 15 year old and we have been battling it for years with him. He will literally do assignments and not turn them in (we know he did them because we either corrected them or helped him with them). Then when we check his grades and see he got a zero he is all "I'm sure I turned that in" or "I know I did that" then looks and finds it in his folder. He is not a brilliant student but then he shoots himself in the foot and makes it worse and he just doesn't see it. My wife is a teacher and it drives her totally crazy. 

 
SwampDawg said:
shadyridr said:
I was supposed to meet the teachers today but I'm sick and rescheduled. Speaking of science. Yesterday he told me he has a science quiz today. I said good did you bring your book home to study? Proudly, he said yes I did. Get home and his science notebook is nowhere to be found. He forgot it. He is so absent minded. He was so upset because he swore he put it in his bag. 
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God this sounds exactly like my 15 year old and we have been battling it for years with him. He will literally do assignments and not turn them in (we know he did them because we either corrected them or helped him with them). Then when we check his grades and see he got a zero he is all "I'm sure I turned that in" or "I know I did that" then looks and finds it in his folder. He is not a brilliant student but then he shoots himself in the foot and makes it worse and he just doesn't see it. My wife is a teacher and it drives her totally crazy. 
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11yo floppinho is kinda like this too. smart kid, but still a complete mess in terms of organizing his own life. we find all kinds of stuff jammed into his backpack- not even folders. my wife asks him every night and morning if he's done and turned in all his homework (a lot of it is through google docs or other online stuff). he turned something in this morning on the way out the door because my wife asked him. constantly loses stuff- waterbottles, hats, gloves, scarves (yes, of course- scarves)... basically anything that is permanently attached to his body.

shady- how has he been doing? did you have that meeting with the teacher yet?

 
El Floppo said:
11yo floppinho is kinda like this too. smart kid, but still a complete mess in terms of organizing his own life. we find all kinds of stuff jammed into his backpack- not even folders. my wife asks him every night and morning if he's done and turned in all his homework (a lot of it is through google docs or other online stuff). he turned something in this morning on the way out the door because my wife asked him. constantly loses stuff- waterbottles, hats, gloves, scarves (yes, of course- scarves)... basically anything that is permanently attached to his body.

shady- how has he been doing? did you have that meeting with the teacher yet?
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Yeah he would lose his head if it wasnt attached. Left his notebook in CCD two weeks ago when he only has 3 things to pack (a notebook, a folder, and a text book). Im not sure how that's possible.

He's been doing better lately but not much time has passed. Got an 83 on a math test and a 75 on the science quiz he wasnt able to study for. It was only 4 questions. The one he got wrong is annoying because we discussed the exact subject the night before and he completely forgot the next day.

No, the meeting with the teacher has not been rescheduled after I had to cancel due to being sick. They have never responded. However, the science quiz was free form question and response. No multiple choice. So I am assuming that was how the test that he got an 8 on was also and he never studied.

 
Mrs. SwampDawg got a call today from our problem students science teacher, who for the record he really likes, he bombed his test today. He had an index card with all the study guide answers on it. They worked in a group to create it and his was led by one of the smartest girls in his grade, we were really impressed with all she had on it. Yet he still managed to bomb it (not sure of the exact grade, just quoting the teacher) and apparently didn't hand in the page that was three questions he wrote on the board in addition to the handed out test. Teacher volunteered to work with him in his study hall and allow him to retake it. 

Should be interesting, they started a new quarter last week, because he bombed this and he failed an algebra quiz and has another class with only one homework assignment that he got a 6/10 he should be ineligible for his bowling team matches next week. I'm really hoping he is, he doesn't seem to believe me that it can happen.

 
Finally met with the teachers. They said they were gonna contact me before I contacted them (yeah sure) but they are seeing he struggles with comprehension and it is hurting him in all subjects. He's good at math but shuts down with multi-step word problems. He never asks for help. Almost like hes ashamed. He got low scores on both his state tests last year. They recommended having him evaluated and I thought that was a good idea. So we should know in about 45 days what his exact issues are after the school psychologist evaluates him.

As far as the science test, she knew he forged my signature. I saw the test and it was completely written. No multiple choice whatsoever. She sent home the study materials a week ahead and he never once brought them home or studied. So that is the reason for the 8. I am not sure why he didnt bring his materials home because although I said he is not organized and forgetful its not like him to not realize for a whole week.

 
I fear this part of parenthood as my child grows closer to grade school age.  She is so similar to me in demeanor, it’s scary.  I was somewhat like this in school:  if I didn’t find interest in the subject at hand, I tuned out and my mind went elsewhere while the rest of the class learned.  If I did find interest in whatever subject, I excelled and sought more knowledge outside of class.  When my poor performance in whichever subject came to light, I was then forced to perform by way of makeup tests/projects and I would ace them in short order.  I’m of above average intelligence according to my SAT and IQ scores, but I didn’t care to showcase it in school unless the subject was delivered to me in an interesting manner.  That made subjects like math and science kind of hard for my parents to maintain as those were, and probably still are, notoriously boring and seemingly inapplicable at that age.  On top of all this, I also had this strange contrary reaction to positive reinforcement.  If you tried to praise me and encourage me after good work, I’d suddenly decide I don’t like that subject anymore.  This wasn’t limited to school, either.  I was really good at drawing during middle school, then my parents saw what I was doing, encouraged me and I soon after quit drawing.

That’s a lot of words to essentially say I have no advice, but maybe the personal anecdote can provide something to look for as you attempt to figure out how to address the issue.  Good luck in the endeavor, this parenting thing ain’t easy

 
OK so now I feel super guilty that I called him lazy if he does in fact have a learning disability. Also, I started looking up symptoms of dyslexia and holy crap he has most of these.

General:

Dyslexic children and adults can become avid and enthusiastic readers when given learning tools that fit their creative learning style.

Appears bright, highly intelligent, and articulate but unable to read, write, or spell at grade level.

Labelled lazy, dumb, careless, immature, “not trying hard enough,” or “behavior problem.”

Isn’t “behind enough” or “bad enough” to be helped in the school setting.

High in IQ, yet may not test well academically; tests well orally, but not written.

Feels dumb; has poor self-esteem; hides or covers up weaknesses with ingenious compensatory strategies; easily frustrated and emotional about school reading or testing.

Talented in art, drama, music, sports, mechanics, story-telling, sales, business, designing, building, or engineering.

Seems to “Zone out” or daydream often; gets lost easily or loses track of time.

Difficulty sustaining attention; seems “hyper” or “daydreamer.”

Learns best through hands-on experience, demonstrations, experimentation, observation, and visual aids.

Vision, Reading, and Spelling:

Complains of dizziness, headaches or stomach aches while reading.

Confused by letters, numbers, words, sequences, or verbal explanations.

Reading or writing shows repetitions, additions, transpositions, omissions, substitutions, and reversals in letters, numbers and/or words.

Complains of feeling or seeing non-existent movement while reading, writing, or copying.

Seems to have difficulty with vision, yet eye exams don’t reveal a problem.

Extremely keen sighted and observant, or lacks depth perception and peripheral vision.

Reads and rereads with little comprehension.

Spells phonetically and inconsistently.

Hearing and Speech:

Has extended hearing; hears things not said or apparent to others; easily distracted by sounds.

Difficulty putting thoughts into words; speaks in halting phrases; leaves sentences incomplete; stutters under stress; mispronounces long words, or transposes phrases, words, and syllables when speaking.

Writing and Motor Skills:

Trouble with writing or copying; pencil grip is unusual; handwriting varies or is illegible.

Clumsy, uncoordinated, poor at ball or team sports; difficulties with fine and/or gross motor skills and tasks; prone to motion-sickness.

Can be ambidextrous, and often confuses left/right, over/under.

Math and Time Management:

Has difficulty telling time, managing time, learning sequenced information or tasks, or being on time.

Computing math shows dependence on finger counting and other tricks; knows answers, but can’t do it on paper.

Can count, but has difficulty counting objects and dealing with money.

Can do arithmetic, but fails word problems; cannot grasp algebra or higher math.

Memory and Cognition:

Excellent long-term memory for experiences, locations, and faces.

Poor memory for sequences, facts and information that has not been experienced.

Thinks primarily with images and feeling, not sounds or words (little internal dialogue).

Behavior, Health, Development, and Personality:

Extremely disorderly or compulsively orderly.

Can be class clown, trouble-maker, or too quiet.

Had unusually early or late developmental stages (talking, crawling, walking, tying shoes).

Prone to ear infections; sensitive to foods, additives, and chemical products.

Can be an extra deep or light sleeper; bedwetting beyond appropriate age.

Unusually high or low tolerance for pain.

Strong sense of justice; emotionally sensitive; strives for perfection.

Mistakes and symptoms increase dramatically with confusion, time pressure, emotional stress, or poor health.

 
Officer Pete Malloy said:
shadyridr said:
OK so now I feel super guilty that I called him lazy if he does in fact have a learning disability.
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Nah.  Don't be hard on yourself.  The fact that you noticed your kid struggling is the big step.  It's human nature to NOT jump right to some sort of diagnosis.  
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yeah- getting him help ASAP with whatever's ailing him is the key here. and there'll be plenty of time to make fun of him along the way.

 
So did they have you fill out the paperword to begin the evaluation process? What are they evaluating him for?

 
Ilov80s said:
Is this through the school- testing to see if he has a disability?
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Yes, I met with the teachers. They said due to the results of his state tests last year and the fact that his grades have not improved they recommended having him evaluated. They asked how I felt about that and I said, sounds like a good idea, it wouldn't hurt. The teacher then said she will open a case for him and it takes about 45 days for him to be evaluated.

 
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shadyridr said:
Yes, I met with the teachers. They said due to the results of his state tests last year and the fact that his grades have not improved they recommended having him evaluated. They asked how I felt about that and I said, sounds like a good idea, it wouldn't hurt. The teacher than said she will open a case for him and it takes about 45 days for him to be evaluated.
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Now I know some States do things differently but most special ed. is dictated by federal law. You should be invited to a meeting- often called a REED (Review of Existing Educational Data) and there they would outline the tests they want to administer and what disabilities he is being tested for. You HAVE to sign to give them permission and then they have 30 school days to hold a meeting and present the results. They may be playing a little fast and loose with the special ed. guidelines. I work with a SE teacher who started in New York so if you want, I could follow-up to see if NY has some different rules. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Now I know some States do things differently but most special ed. is dictated by federal law. You should be invited to a meeting- often called a REED (Review of Existing Educational Data) and there they would outline the tests they want to administer and what disabilities he is being tested for. You HAVE to sign to give them permission and then they have 30 school days to hold a meeting and present the results. They may be playing a little fast and loose with the special ed. guidelines. I work with a SE teacher who started in New York so if you want, I could follow-up to see if NY has some different rules. 
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I also wouldn't be surprised if NYC has its own rules on top of that. NYC DOE FTW.

 
El Floppo said:
I also wouldn't be surprised if NYC has its own rules on top of that. NYC DOE FTW.
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They certainly may have extra rules- there are slight variations in all the States but 90% of it is all the same because it's driven by Federal legislation. They most definitely can't test your kid without permission from a parent. 

 
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