OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
As a teacher...
Asking to redo the test is fine.
Asking for extra credit is a hard “no” for me.
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My son got a ####### 8 on a test and forged my signature (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter shadyridr
- Start date
Asking to redo the test is fine.
Asking for extra credit is a hard “no” for me.
northern exposure
Footballguy
You have to address this with your son or he'll end up starting threads like this one day: https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/773612-kid-gets-kicked-out-of-the-football/
boots11234
Footballguy
I’d make sure there isn’t any learning problems first. If not I’d get him a tutor. I had fantastic results when I got my daughter a math tutor in a 7th grade. It really helped her confidence not only in math but all subjects. She’s now straight A student taking AP classes.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
belljr
Footballguy
Don't disagree. Anytime my daughter had an "issue" it was a generic. "Is there anything I/(little belljr) could do to help improve that grade". Usually the teacher would direct what she could do.
The wording was different based on age
boots11234
Footballguy
Don’t take the the wrong way but do you think your son is only capable of C work? If so you still need to punish him however moving forward you need to keep in mind his limits.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
An 8 is not trying. Anybody could sit in a room and absorb enough to get more than an 8. I would be more bothered with a 45 or 50 tbh because then at least they made some effort but just don’t understand it. You can probably teach some effort into him.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
You mentioned he likes sports. Does he know that later on he will have to make decent grades in order to play?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
My personal gut feeling: both the forging and the lying as well as the suicide statement indicate that he is terrified of disappointing you.
That can be dealt with but it should be with a professional.
That can be dealt with but it should be with a professional.
gianmarco
Footballguy
You've gotten plenty of advice.
I will say the one thing that stands out to me is doing all homework and studying with him.
It would seem that may possibly be contributing to him struggling. If you are always there and assisting, then he may not be getting things on his own and the teacher has no way of knowing.
He's at an age where he should be able to do homework on his own and you should just be there to help as needed.
I will say the one thing that stands out to me is doing all homework and studying with him.
It would seem that may possibly be contributing to him struggling. If you are always there and assisting, then he may not be getting things on his own and the teacher has no way of knowing.
He's at an age where he should be able to do homework on his own and you should just be there to help as needed.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
As a teacher- the 8% is crazy low. Almost no matter what the test format, a score that low is nearly impossible for a student in class giving a halfway decent effort. Multiple choice tests mean even someone who is clueless should score around 25%. Sometimes in math free response assessments we will get super low scores like that because there’s no way to BS math if you don’t know the material. When I get kids scoring less than ~40% it’s almost always expected. It’s the kid who is always absent/constantly screws around/has a significant disability/sleeps every day. If I have a “typical” student who scored that low, I would definitely reach out to them to see what the hell happened. Sometimes I will discover there was something going on: kid was distracted because of serious life event/social drama, kid wasn’t feeling well, didn’t understand the directions or on a MC test kid accidentally got out of place with the scantron and was marking answers for the wrong questions. Also there is the negative outcome where I’ve discovered the kid was cheating off a student with a different test version. Sometimes it comes out that the kid had been cheating a lot and it finally caught up with them. I hope this isn’t the case but an 8% definitely raises some red flags on cheating gone wrong.
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OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
I had a kid score an 11% on a multiple choice test once. He fell asleep after answering 10 out of 35 questions and only got 4 of those right.
This kid was an all-around PITA.
Before each test I usually give them 12-15 minutes to study. Twice during that time he put his head down on the desk, Both times I told him to sit up/wake up.
Then when I passed out the tests he had his head down again. I told him to wake up and that if he fell asleep during the test I wouldn’t wake him up and his score would stand. He accepted that challenge with vigor.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah I’ve had kids sleep through tests. I would wake them and encourage them but some kids just don’t give a ####. Sometimes I’ll be even extra nice and tell them they can use their notes on the test- of course they have no notes because they never pay attention during class, don’t take notes and don’t attempt assignments but at least I can show his parents I made every effort.
Eta: and I mean his because it’s always a male student.
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OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
I posted his grade and sent an email to his mom. “Oh Timmy was up super late the night before because of...” something I don’t remember.
She asked if he could do a retake. I normally never do retakes because every question on the test is on a study guide I give them a day or two before...word for word. I told his mom this but I would make a one-time exception in his case BUT I would only let him take it again if he showed me his completed study guide.
So he takes the test again and gets around an 80 IIRC.
A few weeks later he scores a 65% on the next test. Mom emails me and asks if he can take it again.
Nope
James Daulton
Footballguy
Sounds like he's perfect for a career in law.
shadyridr
Footballguy
He does do his homework on his own. I just check it. I found out the teachers don't actually check his homework so if I don't check it he'll never learn the mistakes. The studying on his own seems like a disaster if he's doing poorly now with me helping, no?
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
I was a senior in high school taking AP Chemistry. There was a test on organic chemistry; I knew I didn't do well but didn't know how bad. A day or so later I stopped in the classroom for some reason I don't remember. The teacher Mr. Marantis - normally a very stern and serious man - came over to me and asked if everything was OK with me and was I having any problems at home. When I said no, he pulled out my last exam - I scored an 11 on the test. I was mortified. Fortunately, it was very early in the marking period and was able to rally and get the grade to B+. I knew my future as a possible chemical engineer was over.
To this day, I remember his concern. Underneath everything, he demonstrated to me that he really cared about his students.
To this day, I remember his concern. Underneath everything, he demonstrated to me that he really cared about his students.
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Under what name?Leroy Hoard said:
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Without reading anything else yet.... I would do pretty much nothing. I'd tell my son this doesn't happen again, call him 8% for a week or so and let it go.shadyridr said:
We all did this. It's growing up. Now if it's a pattern... that's different.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I really wanted to commend this reply. Fantastic way of approaching parenting and discipline (and I say this as a parent of 7&11yos) that I wish I could always emulate.
####### monster.
Shady... The repeated lazy comments make me think something else is going on with him. I hope you get him checked it sooner than later. Too bad it sounds like you don't have an advocate in his mean teacher...but if you approached her looking for help/advice in that way, I've found teachers are really good at identifying, or at least being aware of, developmental issues. Pediatrician too.
shadyridr
Footballguy
I would think if he had some type of issue, wouldn't one of his teachers pick up on it by now? He is in the 4th grade. He does have several symptoms of ADHD but I don't think its "severe" if that makes any sense.
shadyridr
Footballguy
About the "I want to kill myself" comment... Im not too worried about that. Kids say stupid things. He seemed to be over the whole thing this morning. Knows he did wrong and now more upset that he lost his iPad and video games privileges until Monday. I guess I have to entertain him all weekend now lol. Good thing baseball training starts this weekend.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Ok, so not great student, doesn't pay attention all the time, but overall good kid....frankly, great kid.
From the nose bleed seats I'd say he just didn't pay attention at all and had no idea there was a test, panicked because he didn't pay much attention leading up to it and then, voila, an 8.
It took us until 5th grade to handle similar stuff with my oldest. Once we found what works for him when it comes to organization, time management, study habits and his weaknesses, we came up with different plans at home. He is getting ready to start looking for colleges and loves to learn.
Just keep being dad and try to see things through his eyes. They are different than yours. And I'd bet money the teachers attitude isnt helping at all.
From the nose bleed seats I'd say he just didn't pay attention at all and had no idea there was a test, panicked because he didn't pay much attention leading up to it and then, voila, an 8.
It took us until 5th grade to handle similar stuff with my oldest. Once we found what works for him when it comes to organization, time management, study habits and his weaknesses, we came up with different plans at home. He is getting ready to start looking for colleges and loves to learn.
Just keep being dad and try to see things through his eyes. They are different than yours. And I'd bet money the teachers attitude isnt helping at all.
shadyridr
Footballguy
SwampDawg
Footballguy
My son (9th grade) got a 35% on a take home math test earlier this year. He only did 8 of 16 questions, when we asked him how he thought he would pass only answering half the questions he replied he thought he would have gotten like a 70%. Obviously Math isn't his strong suit. That said he is on the spectrum and diagnosed PDD-NOS and the behavior you are talking about sounds like a lot of the stuff we saw. Kids that are really high functioning can get totally missed because they seem "normal" 90% of the time. With my son we had to go through the Read 180 program in middle school with him and it really improved his reading and comprehension skills. He has an IEP that has some requirements for longer written assignments and that we be notified of due dates and test dates because his major issue is short term memory so staying organized is a major challenge, he also come across as lazy (sometimes he truly is, other times he just gets lost and shuts down). I would definitely look into getting him tested and then getting an IEP to help him. With those things in place he has been able to at least be efficient in school, currently his grades are all in the 80's except for Algebra which is a 75. We realize he isn't going to college (he would never stay organized) but he is really interested in some of the programs they offer through the tech school so he has put in for a couple of their programs which would start next year for him.
That said when he does stuff like not completing or asking for help on a take home test he gets punished (lost video games and his phone) and he had to redo the test. In this case the teacher allowed him to retake it but we would have made him even if it didn't count, we have done that with other assignments.
That said when he does stuff like not completing or asking for help on a take home test he gets punished (lost video games and his phone) and he had to redo the test. In this case the teacher allowed him to retake it but we would have made him even if it didn't count, we have done that with other assignments.
Ned
Footballguy
My kids always default to the "I don't know" or "I forget" when its a question they don't want to answer.
Ned
Footballguy
My 10yr old will say "I don't know" when it's a positive response (no idea why he does that).
Me: "How'd you sleep last night?"
10: "I don't know"
Me: "Glad to hear it!"
10:
shadyridr
Footballguy
How aboutMy 10yr old will say "I don't know" when it's a positive response (no idea why he does that).
Me: "How'd you sleep last night?"
10: "I don't know"
Me: "Glad to hear it!"
10:
"How was school today?"
"Good"
"What did you do?"
"I don't know"
Ive heard that pretty much every day for 5 years now.
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Johnny Rock
Footballguy
How about some time reading together on the bed or couch? Not as a punishment but because it’s fun. So many awesome kids books for every level reader.
Johnny Rock
Footballguy
No way that’s the end of the conversation for me. Keep pressing, laugh and joke that there’s no way they don’t know ANYTHING they did that day. Impossible!
shadyridr
Footballguy
Oh its entirely possible. Just because Im very good at math doesn't man I am a good teacher.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Make him walk to school. But be nice and only make him walk a third of the way while driving behind him then a third the next day and a third the next day. That will be really really hard on him and learn him good.
ChiefD
Footballguy
My 13 year old son had a similar situation as you. Had a bad test score in math. Had missed a homework assignment. So his semester grade was really low.shadyridr said:
I was upset about the missed assignment and let him know it. To me, those things are due to pure laziness and priorities. Things you can teach them. His response was almost exactly what you quoted above.
And for me, I took those words extremely seriously. I sat down with him immediately to talk to him about those words. Because I don't want those thoughts to ever be in his head (even though I know teenagers think totally irrationally all the time).
But he knew he screwed up and needed my support just then. And then we were able to talk through how to solve the math class issues. I put it on him to go talk to his teacher, see if he could make up the assignment, and re-take the test because he couldn't understand the material.
Which he did, on his own. It was hard for him, but he has done a complete turnaround in that class.
I'm a hard dad when it comes to school - my kids all understand that they are to do their best at school and homework is the #1 priority after school.
But I am still a compassionate dad who tries to comfort them and be there for them and to help build them up. And your situation is another learning experience for him and you, and I know you will take him down the right path. You are good people.
Epic Problem
Footballguy
Or a good speller
No advice, I somehow dodged most of these school issue bullets with my son, but you’re a good dad and know you’ll do what’s best for him
whoknew
Footballguy
Did you ever think that maybe he was super tired because he's a male stripper at night and could really benefit from having a cot in the class? Think outside the box, Mr. Shoop.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Ok, some more thoughts:
1) Again, I don't think you should be checking his homework other than to see if it's done. What are you checking? If there's a mistake, are you helping him fix it? If so, then there may be an issue that he isn't picking up or learning and there's no way for the teacher to know because his homework is coming in correct. With younger kids, yes, you sit down and help/do it with them so they learn HOW to do homework. But a 4th grader knows how and he needs to do it himself, mistakes or no mistakes. I think you're doing him a disservice by correcting mistakes with him even though I know that's clearly not your intention.
2) If his teacher isn't checking his homework, then that's a major issue. Not minor. I would take that up with her directly and, if that doesn't work, then you go higher. There's no reason to assign homework if it's not going to be evaluated. And it needs to be evaluated to see how things are going so your son doesn't one day come home with an 8% on his test and then time has been missed to address it.
3) If he needs help studying for a test, that's a different story. You can certainly help with that and/or you can get a tutor. And that's where you may notice he is having deficiencies before the test and reach out to a teacher if need be before he comes home with an 8%.
4) This is the age where ADHD can start to get unmasked. If he has it, he's had it all along but the work is usually easy enough prior to 4th grade that some kids with it can still function well enough. 4th-5th grade is normally the time when things get just hard enough that it pushes it past the breaking point. And unfortunately not all teachers will recognize it. I would make an appointment with his pediatrician and ask to get him screened. It's a simple process that involves you filling out a form with some questions about things at home and his teachers will do the same and it's returned to your pediatrician. I think this is pretty appropriate at this point based on what you've typed out. Also, he may have a learning deficiency that needs to be addressed. Not all of this is ADHD. Humans, especially kids, find ways to adapt when things aren't working correctly until it gets to the point where those adaptations aren't enough. You may be seeing that now.
My $.02.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
you obviously know him better than anybody. but I wouldn't necessarily trust teachers to be picking up on it or to be telling you if they did.
in preschool, our oldest seemed to have some issues speaking- nothing profound, especially for a little kid most of whom are unintelligible anyways, but we felt like there was something. asked his first teacher at the end of the year and she concurred slightly, said to watch it the following year. the teachers the following year didn't say boo, even though we brought it up with them early. they waited until the end of the year to say anything- and then only when we brought it up- and recommended he get some therapy. wtf?
I guess I'm saying you'll always be your kids' best advocate- and your intuition is usually enough to push for more answers. for me, I hear "lazy" and I think it might be something more- especially if he's a kid who can focus and not be lazy in other ways (like baseball). and this obviously goes beyond the 8 and the forgery... which I think you've handled great. dunno... but I wish you and him the very best.
Keerock
Footballguy
Join the club. My reading comprehension sucks balls (and I'd argue that most people on this board suffer the same)shadyridr said:
This. My middle son was a 3+ sport athlete. I was his travel baseball coach and the "punishment" that he learned the most from was making him sit out a baseball game (actually made him be the bat boy
). This was for doing poorly on a school project. He didn't automatically turn into a conscientious student, but reminding of it would prompt him to try harder. Literally every other parent on the team wanted me to do the same to their kid 
Epic Problem
Footballguy
Have you threatened him with a slow, meandering stroll through the Baseball HOF yet?
Galileo
Footballguy
Keep pressing OR change the initial question to target something more specific. For example instead of asking "How was school today?" ask "What was the most interesting thing that happened at school today?" or "What was the most boring part of school today?" Then follow it up with a "Why?" Could lead to better discussion.
I'll agree with those who are recommending some testing. You say there are some characteristics of ADHD. You have said he is smart but seems to be achieving below where you might expect. You say he has trouble with reading comprehension which, as you correctly assess, has impact on all subjects. It is not uncommon at all for learning disabilities to reveal themselves at this age level. Heck, I have seen some who aren't diagnosed until 9th grade.
shadyridr
Footballguy
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shadyridr
Footballguy
NYC public schools... 30 kids, 1 teacher. No teacher has ever checked his HW for accuracy. Its not isolated to this one teacher.
munga30
Checkin' my email
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Ditto.
I combated it by asking him, "Tell me something you learned today?" And I don't let him get away with saying nothing, I don't know, or similar. He has to tell me something he learned. Even if it is something stupid like a grammar lesson in English. Just something to engage the part of his brain that knows it learned something but is hated by the rest of the brain that wants to teenage all day.
More often than not, it starts a conversation that coerces the rest of the day out of him because he ends up putting in the back story and filler that "I don't know," tries to hide so he doesn't have to talk.
Our youngest has caught on to this fast and is already asking us, before we even are ready, "Can I tell you what I learned today?"
The conversation is always better when he learned something that I didn't know - which is rare (not because I'm arrogant, but because he's in high school) and I can truly tell him I didn't know that, and ask him to teach me what it was he learned. I won't lie, we've had conversations stem from my initial question that took multiple hours because he is excited to "teach" me something that I don't know.
I relearned advanced algebra last year. That was tough. But I love the kid.
El Floppo
Footballguy
floppinha's 2nd grade class in manhattan has 34 kids. teacher' reviews stuff done in class- but anything else is marked done/not-done.
slap it low.
El Floppo
Footballguy
1st part- I'm constantly catching myself asking yes/no/good-answered questions and consciously try to ask things that lead to more conversation/thought like you're recommending.
2nd part- this is what I've been thinking too. I mentioned that we have a bunch of friends, mostly from floppinho's preschool, who's figured out around this age (8/9) that their kid had something else happening- a few with dyslexia, a couple with adhd. it's the age kids stop learning to read, and start reading to learn... so the kind of comments shady's been saying ring bells for me. the ones who were on the spectrum for asbergers/etc showed up earlier.
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